Dodgers Rumors: Manny, Dunn, Hudson, Wolf

$25 mil? What the hell Manny? You know what 25 mil could do for a small city in Kansas? Stop acting like you can't live off 25 mil a year and sign a damn contract already! Scott Boras is a prick!

If they go this direction LAD should just forget about their 17pick and go on a Type A/B spree.

First sign Dunn as your LFer and a legit cleanup hitter. (~8Mper?/1-2yr)

I would prefer Cabrera over Hudson as he would give you great 2B defense and assurance at SS should Furcal go down. (7Mper? and type A)

Now that the type A wall has broken go ahead and get Sheets and Cruz for I have no idea what but it should be not much more than 10-12 combined per.

If there is enough left over fill the 5th spot with Wolf or Looper depending on the cash left. Heck, even bring back Biemel (sp?) if there is cash left.

I think that Dunn + Hudson + pitching is better for the Dodgers, though its misleading to be "intrigued" as if the 25mm this year for Manny goes to those players. First of all, I expect Hudson will require a multiyear deal, even if Dunn settles for a one-year deal which he likely will. The merchandise related to Manny has something to do with the high offer, and I can't see Dodgers fans as excited about these other players.

If the Giants do get Manny, I'm not sure how they can beat that deal, but they will be the best team in the West. I'm not sure anyone has really paid attention to just how good that rotation will be.

What suprises me most is Boras has negotiated with virtually every team at some point this offseason on a player or two. Therefore he knows how much (or how little) teams have left to spend. With the Dodgers seemingly the only team in on Manny and some of the other big money clubs like the Red Sox/Yankees/Angels not interested I just don't see how the potential interest from the Giants is enough for the Dodgers to suddenly break the bank to ensure they get Ramirez.

Worst case scenerio for the Dodgers is they let this consume their offseason and they miss out on other potential signings that could have helped their club.

Abreu or Dunn aren't Manny in terms of talent but neither is Jason Bay for the Red Sox; the difference is Bay was able to replace Manny just fine because what he lacked in talent he made up for by simply replacing the circus act and allowing the rest of the team to get back to playing baseball.

If I was the Dodgers I'd be done after this offer and start working with Dunn or Abreu for what would likely be a fraction of the cost for a 1 year deal.

Weren't the Dodgers expected to sign Wolf anyways? Adding him wouldn't be in place of Manny.

Likewise, I'm not sure I see the Dodgers/Hudson fit, aren't they planning on playing Dewitt there and are supposed to be high on him?

Breaking News: Manny Ramirez signs a 5 year $17 million/year deal with Kenny Williams and the Chicago White Sox

The Dodgers need Manny. They were a mediocre offensive team until Manny showed up and put them on his back. A one year deal from LA will cause Manny to pout, and then they'll be back in the same spot next offseason.

LA offended him with their two offers. Manny is going to go some place else and play like a man possessed to spite LA like he did Boston last year.

Manny goes to San Fran at this point I think, but I would'nt rule out a team like Anaheim. They can't be satisfied with Matthews Jr and Juan Rivera with an aging Vlad Guerrerro. They might pony up and grab Manny on the cheap.

If the Dodgers back out Manny and Boras are Fu@#ed. I guess they don't believe LA is really interested in Dunn, Hudson, ect. If those two jokers don't swallow their pride Manny will end up in DC or SF playing for one year 18 mil and prolly spend all year on the bench faking injuries.

So if the Dodgers were to sign OHud or Cabrera where does that leave DeWitt? He seemed to be a young player deserving of a chance to play everday as opposed to being a super utility guy. Does he packaged up with maybe a couple of prospects (Hu or DeJesus) or young position players out of options (D.Young) for maybe a front end starter?

If the DOdgers and Man-NY can't come to terms then I like the idea of them spending that money on Dunn (or Abreu) to replace Man-NY's offense, Sheets (or Wolf) to replace Derek Lowe as a #1 SP and Juan Cruz to replace Saito as a set up guy with Braxton becoming the closer. They could probably get all three for less than $25 per.

And obviously Wolf and Abreu would be conciliation prizes and are not anywhere near equal to Man-NY and Lowe but gives them some replacement value.

does nyone think that the dodgers will offer 2 yrs 40 mill????

dodgers will still sign manny

ESPN just said it took "about 2 hours" for him to reject the offer. Sometimes pride gets in the way.

Maybe the Nationals jump in on this? They were going to give Teix all that money, maybe they are going to open up their wallets for Manny? I wouldn't be surprised if they throw a 3-year/$75 million offer out there to get him to sign there. He'd put a lot of fans in the seats.

Here's the problem people are forgetting: if the Dodgers move on from Manny and go ahead with their Plan B, they're not really patching any holes, and they're not really making themselves that much better. Sure, Dunn can hit HRs, but there's more to hitting than just hitting 40 HRs every year. (Manny's a .330 hitter with his 35+ HRs every year; Dunn is a .240 hitter.) This team was abysmal offensively last year until Manny showed up. It was their pitching that kept them afloat in the division and right now, they don't have that pitching, even after they add Wolf, to match up with Arizona or the Giants. Dunn is no Manny. Manny changed the dynamics of this team, the offense, the clubhouse, etc. He taught these guys that it's 'OK' to have fun while playing the game, even in down times.

They were already looking at Wolf, and probably would have signed him regardless of the Manny situation, so I'm not sure how their Plan B would be a 3-instead-of-1. And why Hudson? Is Blake DeWitt suddenly incapable of playing 2B? Hudson made it clear yesterday he's hoping one of the NY teams finds a way to get something done for him. He doesn't really want to be in LA.

None of this makes any sense. And keep this in mind, too: Dunn didn't really change or help the D-backs that much last year after they acquired him from Cincy.

I love the Dodgers, but they need to step it up with Manny and get this done. Hopefully all this "rejecting" offers means its part of a negotiation process, rather than the end of it. Stop screwing around.

This team needs Manny in more ways than people want to believe.

I was thinking the same thing bbbxj - the Yanks swoop in grab Manny - trade Nady & Swisher for top of the line prospects..that way when Damon , Ramirez & Matsui are all gone they have some young talent waiting in the wings. It sounds like Austin Jackson will be the future center fielder..
Of course the Giants are also in the mix for Manny which gives them the big bat, but Manny will be walked intentionally more times than ever, assuming someone has to bat behind Manny :)
That someone better be good :)

ha!

"the Yanks swoop in grab Manny - trade Nady & Swisher for top of the line prospects"

Nady and Swisher would command top of the line prospects???

haha! you sir, are delusional

Gotta think it's a bad move by Manny and Boras to reject this offer. If I were Ned Colleti I'd say thanks and I'm moving on, then I'd go hard after Dunn, Hudson and Wolf or Sheets. I'd tell Manny happy hunting, enjoy making less with the Nationals.

Mets say no, Yanks say their done spending, LA keeps looking helpless. SF is not a real contender unless they go over the top with their offer. Where does Manny go? Washington,.. if he goes then its all about the money ( i know hes greedy but ask soriano how much fun it is playing for a guaranteed loser) Now what teams are quiet? Can the Angels afford him? They certainly could use him but Front office probably wont take that chance. If any team was to offer 4 at 100(which isnt going to happen) thats were hell end up. Since hes not getting what he wants- it would be smart to take a short term with a winning club- Mets/yanks- If i were his agent its like this
1- take the short term for a team that didnt make the playoffs but isnt far from making the playoffs( he would increase his value providing the team wins)
2- If all he wants is money then i tell him go to Washington (only 3 0r 4 year deal)
3- if all else fails, take that Dodger money because theyre going nowhere. The dodgers keep waiting eventually those other players will sign elsewhere and be forced to up the ante.( the dodgers should walk from him but they fear the backlash)
My opinion is that Manny will play for a contender. I believe he still wants to win. In saying that he wants to make sure hes paid and doesnt sign a 1 year and get injured.
My contract offer would be 1/25- make the playoffs it becomes 1/30- make the series- 2/55- win the series 3/80-
Is it possible to stucture a contract that way or am i making up possibilities?

TrippleHHH, that's a great idea, except who's going to give up "top of the line prospects" for Nady or Swisher when they can just go out and sign a corner OF and keep these same prospects? The corner OF market still has a few solid talents available that only cost money. Not saying it won't happen, but guys like Dunn/Abreu can offer similar, if not better, production than those two and you don't have to give up top prospects to get them.
__________________________

Not to turn this into a Yankee thread, but Cashman would be sitting pretty now that Dunn and Abreu are the only two corners of signifige ance left on the market and despite both coming down in their demands, it seems like no one is willing to go hard after them at this point. By Feb 15th a few teams are still going to be looking for corner bats but won't have either the budget or the selection they need to fill that spot.

I'm a Dodgers fan and would love to have Manny back, but it's time to move on. Two very good offers rejected now, so stop wasting any more time, Ned. LA is obviously the best fit for Manny as far as fans, media, attitude goes, but I guess he's just looking for $$$. Hope he ends up on the Nationals where no one will care anymore about Manny being Manny!

I really don't understand how Manny and Boras have ANY leverage in this.

They've now been offered 2/45 with an option, and 1/25, and for some reason, despite zero indication, they still believe Manny's going to land a bigger deal.

Who would possibly give it to him? The Yankees? Mets? Angels? Giants?

There really doesn't seem to be any team that would have enough interest to top that offer. Any team other than LA that has interest has only had circumstantial interest, basically implying that they'd only sign him for a year or two. I'm not sure how any team offers more than 1/25 or 2/45.

I'd take the 1/25 and try re-entering the market next season after a monster year in the NL, but I don't know, there's definitely some risk involved in that.

Then again, I think Manny Ramirez is a fairly wealthy man, as is.

"Not to turn this into a Yankee thread, but Cashman would be sitting pretty now that Dunn and Abreu are the only two corners of signifige ance left on the market and despite both coming down in their demands, it seems like no one is willing to go hard after them at this point. By Feb 15th a few teams are still going to be looking for corner bats but won't have either the budget or the selection they need to fill that spot."

-------
Although you have forgotten that some teams already have log jams in the OF and have players better than Nady and Swisher available. The Cardinals and Twins definitely have better players on the block and if the White Sox signed a guy like Abreu, they could trade Dye as well. In reality, the Yanks are not going to get anything of significant value for Swish or Nady.

Here comes the Yankees chance...

PMACK, I thought there was a post on this very website that said the Yankees couldnt sign anymore type A free agents?

@Ned

Thats true, but its also true that it was confirmed false. The limit is 8 A/B FAs

I wish Colleti would just get over Manny and move on. He has been trying to sign him for 4-5 months. Time to go in a different direction before it is too late.

I say sign Dunn (or Abreu), Wolf and Sheets. Then I would say it is a successful offseason.

The Yankees can sign up to eight type 'A or B' Free agents this year due to a loop hole, I don't know why but Brian Cashman came out and said that in a recent interview. See below;
Fear not, greedy Yankee fans, the Yankees can sign all the Type A free agents if they want.

A story on MLB.com today said the Yankees had reached the quota on Type A free agents.

This led to — seriously — a dozen e-mails from fans who want Juan Cruz, Adam Dunn and/or Manny Ramirez.

Turns out the story is wrong. Brian Cashman said the Yankees could sign up to eight if they want. “I’m not sure of the exact number, but it’s one we won’t worry about either way,” he said.

I’m not clear on the exact reasons. But the large pool of FAs led to an adjustment in the quota. I also think it has something to do with how many ranked FAs they had.

Panic over. Think big thoughts.

And, no, Cash wouldn’t way whether than plan to sign anybody else.

Regarding the Dodgers offense and "lack" of pop last year prior to Manny's arrival - I think with Kemp/Loney a full year seasoned now both will see an increase in the power department. Afterall, both of these guys are still developing their power stroke.

Toss in a healthy Furcal and the addition of a guy like Dunn might really be all the Dodgers need to have a solid offense next year because they should be slightly better just based on the law of averages that the young guys are still developing power.

This is getting depressing.

Manny is probably the biggest name on the market, but not the most productive, he should sign with the Angels. Him and Vladdy would be dominant. Dunn should definately be in the AL as a DH. Sheets should sign with the Yankees just for the heck of it cause they are probably winning the World Series this year. Hudson should sign with the Mets cause they need a good 1-2 punch in the middle. And Ken Griffey Jr. will sign with the Mariners for being a hometown hero there.

Just some fantasy predictions

The crazy thing is that the Dodgers actually could realistically go on a spending spree and acquire all the aforementioned players. My thoughts are that if the Dodgers are going to sign anyone other Type A's besides Manny, why not sign as many as you can? Up until now, they have been hesitant to pull the trigger on other Type A's because of Manny, but now that it appears Manny may very well not return, they could potentially sign a good number of players.

As of now, the Dodgers have around $45 million (give or take $5 million).

Guaranteed Money (does not include incentives - best estimates)...
-Sheets: $8-10 million
-Wolf: $6.5-7.75 million
-Dunn: $8-11 million
-Cruz: $4-5.75 million

Minimum Contract Commitment: around $26.5 million
Maximum Contract Commitment: around $34.5 million (I doubt they will all cost that much guaranteed)

Take also into consideration that Wolf may receive an incentive laden contract starting at around $5.5-6 million which could work its way up to around $10-12 million, and Ben Sheets will most likely get incentives in his contract that could take it up to around $14-16 million.

All that said, the Dodgers should strongly consider looking at locking up a couple of these guys if Manny doesn't work out.

"Manny is probably the biggest name on the market, but not the most productive"

What are you talking about... Manny IS the 2nd best hitter in the major leagues. His production is second to only Albert Pujols. Get your facts straight.

Matt,

What they mean by "productive" isn't in terms of his literal line-stats. Obviously Manny has far superior stats to Dunn, Abreu or O-Dog. What most people mean by the word "production" is basically "bang for your buck".

When you consider Manny is asking for $25 million per year, and Dunn could realistically take a salary of $8 million per year, Dunn could be viewed as more "productive". At over a third of the cost of Manny, Dunn would give you similar power numbers, a comparable (but not better) OBP, and yes a lesser BA and more K's. However, the point is, is that Dunn at $8 million is a bargain for the stats he'll give you.

Most people have been saying this off-season, is Manny's extra .60-80 points in BA and fewer homers, and 20 more RBI's worth $10-15+ million more than what the other OF'ers are asking this off-season?

QUOTE I was thinking the same thing bbbxj - the Yanks swoop in grab Manny - trade Nady & Swisher for top of the line prospects..that way when Damon , Ramirez & Matsui are all gone they have some young talent waiting in the wings. It sounds like Austin Jackson will be the future center fielder..QUOTE

So in a Yankees World...

The Yankees give up a middle-tier prospect for Nick Swisher when the White Sox did not "have to" move him...

Then the Yankees after signing Manny Ramirez will have way too many OFs and will have to move Swisher and will net a Top Prospect?

Wow!

The Dodgers only had Manny, Blake and Furcal for a couple months each.

A full season from Furcal, Blake, and Dunn, plus the natural maturation of the core youth of Kemp-Ethier-Martin-Loney should produce a much better offense in 2009.

The downgrade from Lowe to likley Wolf would be problematic.

QUOTE: As of now, the Dodgers have around $45 million (give or take $5 million).

Guaranteed Money (does not include incentives - best estimates)...
-Sheets: $8-10 million
-Wolf: $6.5-7.75 million
-Dunn: $8-11 million
-Cruz: $4-5.75 million

Minimum Contract Commitment: around $26.5 million
Maximum Contract Commitment: around $34.5 million (I doubt they will all cost that much guaranteed)

Take also into consideration that Wolf may receive an incentive laden contract starting at around $5.5-6 million which could work its way up to around $10-12 million, and Ben Sheets will most likely get incentives in his contract that could take it up to around $14-16 million.

All that said, the Dodgers should strongly consider looking at locking up a couple of these guys if Manny doesn't work out.QUOTE

Well said!

I am all for telling Borass to go .... himself and move on with what you outline as a strong Plan B.

Niether Swisher, nor Nady are going to net "top of the line" prospects. They can net something of value, sure. But it won't be anything that would be considered great. Swisher is coming off of the worst season of his career, and was just traded for a bunch of fillers. Nady has one year left on his contract, and really isn't a top tier player by any means. The Yankees would be lucky to squeeze 2-3 B/B- type players out of either of them.

Dont get mad Dodgers fans, Boras feeds on your anger. Just be patient. But this is a stand off of epic proportions. Colletti-cheapskate. Boras-money hungry,do anything for a dollar agent. Handicap is Mannys weak market. And FIGHT!

I still say sign Manny and win with rotation of Bills, Kuroda, Wolf, Stults and Kershaw.

If the dodgers cut the cord, it will only hurt the dodgers. I know manny wants big money but he does deserve it! Hudson, dunn, wolf put together cannot transform a team like manny! The dodgers had their chance to sign him but they disrespect him by not giving him the years!

"If the dodgers cut the cord, it will only hurt the dodgers. I know manny wants big money but he does deserve it! Hudson, dunn, wolf put together cannot transform a team like manny! The dodgers had their chance to sign him but they disrespect him by not giving him the years!

Posted by: KingMayan! | February 03, 2009 at 02:28 PM"

Yeah I wouldnt give Manny 4-5 years, makes no sense to do that when not one team even has offered a deal.

"tomahawk, That rotation is a joke, we need a veteran ace and wolf as the 5th starter! Dodgers should trade loney with Pierre, loney will never have the power for a 1st baseban!

Posted by: KingMayan! | February 03, 2009 at 02:32 PM"

It is not great. We are talking about the Dodgers, who always get the pitching somehow.
Bills, Kuroda, Kershaw, McDonald(who will be in the rotation) Stults, and hopefully one of
Sheets, Wolf, or maybe even a Japanese FA.
Loney is not a prototypical first baseman. But if he hits 25 home runs which he is very capable of, who cares? If you did not notice he led the Blue in RBI last year.

"tomahawk, That rotation is a joke, we need a veteran ace and wolf as the 5th starter! Dodgers should trade loney with Pierre, loney will never have the power for a 1st baseban!

Posted by: KingMayan! | February 03, 2009 at 02:32 PM"

In that division with the Giants, this roto will easily win the west.

Oh ok! We will just win the west, I thought we were trying to win the WS! Dumb of me!!

That rotation is better than Giants rotation??

:O

manny just doesn't get that the economy is in the crapper or else doesn't believe that management is that concerned about it. The proof will be to see not just this year but next year's season tix redemption percentages as well as how the overall gate receipts fare.

haha... 55 saves lives,
pay no attention to the 13 year old known as tomahawk368, he knows as much about baseball as i know about the royals farm system

That rotation is better than Giants rotation??

:O

Posted by: 55saveslives | February 03, 2009 at 03:34 PM

NO. I meant that the Dodgers are better than the Giants with Manny, easily really. Without him, they are still better, but not as much.

Everyone agree with me that Manny should be booed for the rest of his career in every park he play's?

This man s*cks!

If the Dodgers are out then the Giants should drop out too.

Screw Boras and Manny.

Mr Blake, those are average numbers, if u want to win a ws you need at least two great hitters! Carlsurf, the lakers got KOBE!

Yeah he really burnt Boston! Helped them win two ws championships! Red soxs fans are just lil
babies!!