Sabean Wants Bats, Won't Deal Yet

You just know this is going to end up bad.

Don't deal Bumgarner Sabean...don't do it...

Konerko has 5 and 10 rights, he's not going anywhere.

Robothal's Glaus article has me thinking that maybe he could work for SF. He'd be cheaper than some of the other guys, he's a rental you don't mind parting with, he's a likely type-A, and if he's healthy soon, could probably play 1B for the Giants while supplying decent offense. It would be a cheap (taking on some of the salary, or maybe sending back a mid-level prospect) alternative to the Hollidays and Dyes of the world. Probably a reach, though. I think they make the move for Holliday if theyre still over .500 in July.

Ahhh forgot about Konerko's 5 and 10, good call.

What are Holliday' projections playing half his games in san fran looking like?
I can't see him being worth it with boras asking the world in 6 months anyway.

I like Huff and I think the Orioles could match up with McFAIL definently getting the better of the deal.

Is Posey still projected to play catcher with their horrible middle infield?

nrmax you are thinking of what should be known as the Isiah Thomas GM rule regarding roles and power...haha

I think jermaine dye would be a great addition to our the giants since we wouldnt have to give up one of the top prospects we have I'm assuming since we would take on his contract
and cingular yes posey is still going to be our catcher of the future

Huff makes the most sense to me. Except for the one fact that he is an expiring contract.

I'd love to have Holliday if he's willing to talk extension in season.

I think he would be closer to his COL statistics than his OAK statistics at Pac Bell.

"Ryan Zimmerman - Nationals
Shin-Soo Choo - Indians (lefty)
Adam Jones - Orioles"

Somebody has high expectations.

There's absolutely no way that the Nationals move Zimmerman or the Orioles move Jones, unless it's for a young stud of similar value, which Alderson is not.

And Choo is a great hitter and one of the more underrated outfielders in the game, so I'm not sure that they would have any interest in moving him.

"Ryan Zimmerman - Nationals
Shin-Soo Choo - Indians (lefty)
Adam Jones - Orioles"

Teams rebuilding generally don't trade away center pieces.

"He's shown that he's a brilliant scout, as San Francisco's drafts are routinely among the best in the game. Whenever you have Lincecum, Cain, Sanchez, Bumgarner, Alderson, Sosa, and Wheeler in your organization, you're doing something right."

All these guys were 1st rounders... most in the top 10 (hence the bad team record). It's not like they were diamonds in the rough.

Sabean has consistently proven to be one of the worst GMs in baseball. He just gave a 34 year old Edgar Renteria $18.5M over two years after posting a sub .700 OPS season.

He's the worst.

Can we stop calling young stars studs?

I think Sabean is going for a Dan Uggla, Mark DeRosa, Miguel Tejada, Jermaine Dye type player. Someone who is a salary dump for a non contender while not giving up the young arms. I dont think Johnson is what the Giants need, plus I think he'll stay on the east coast. Fielder is gonna be a FA and a big target for the Giants in the offseason no need to trade for him now.

I wouldn't call that a heavy 3/4/5 combination. I'd call it a below-average one.

Fielder won't get the Giants a championship. Several productive players on reasonable contracts will.

Cantu and Holliday arent bad ideas, but they shouldnt require a stud to grab so throw your dreams of Villalona out the door. Fielder wont grab the Giants a championship but sub him for Ishikawa and the Giants are only a game or 2 behind the Dodgers. Too bad the Brewers think they can slide into the postseason this year not gonna happen unless the Rockies/Giants/Cubs drop off or they catch the Cardinals which I dont think is gonna happen.

the giants should not give up cain unless its for a franchise player deal (like hanley and uggla). I think the fielder + hardy for cain swap will never happen anymore. we should have pulled the trigger when we were offered the cantu for sanchez, but now it seems near impossible to gain any sort of talent for sanchez, seeing as he cant make it past the 4th inning. but im all for holliday. give away a package with Lewis and some young players, Winn will go, move shierholtz to right.

Seriously, imagine Fielder, Sandoval and Molina. Thats alotta pork. They'd hit homers outta necessity of not having to run.

Cain for Fielder is absolute perfection. Works really well for both teams:

-Giants are loaded with SP depth and are missing a big HR threat
-Brewers can move Braun to 1B
-Giants get a nice bat to compliment Sandoval and soon Posey and Villanoa.
-Brewers get a young rotation anchor who forms a deadly 1-2 with Gallardo
-Prince gets to eat at the finest vegetarian establishments in the country.

Both teams are seriously very close to being contenders for the NL crown, and this deal would be the thing that makes it happen for both teams. They could very well be battling each other in the NLCS, which would add another dimension to it.

nobody gives sandoval any credit for his defense
most people think because he's a heavy guy that he sucks at defense but he moves around like a skinny guy
he's a speedy big man

Sandoval and Molina are not reliable threats. Molina's lifetime average is .276-18-87 with a .308OBP.
This is Sandoval's first season, and that average is not likely to stay up. He's on track for 17 homers and 70 RBI's - wowzers!!!
If you want to really be a threat and top the Dodgers in the NL West or the Cardinals for the Wild Card, you give yourself more insurance than that. Fielder is an excellent hitter, but he's not a one-man team. That 3-4-5 combination is the heaviest in terms of weight alone.

That isn't exactly jumping out at me, gentlemen.

"nobody gives sandoval any credit for his defense
most people think because he's a heavy guy that he sucks at defense but he moves around like a skinny guy
he's a speedy big man"

Granted, it's a SSS at 3B, but Sandoval is currently on pace for a UZR/150 of -7.1...

That ranks him the 7th worst fielding 3B in the game.

Fielder is currently the 4th worst fielding 1B in the game. This is actually better than his '07 (2nd worst) and '08 (2nd worst) seasons.

If you add Fielder and Sandoval with Renteria (6th worst SS) and Buriss (7th worst 2B)...

You have a really crappy infield.

"This is Sandoval's first season, and that average is not likely to stay up. He's on track for 17 homers and 70 RBI's - wowzers!!!"

You'll never sound too credible when your argument is based around home runs and RBI's.. and he's actually on pace for 20 HR and 81 RBI, to be fair.

Sandoval has improved his plate discipline a ton in the past two years, and he's a line drive machine.

He never projected to be a monster slugger, his value is mostly tied in the ability to smack line drives into the gaps. He's on pace for 52 doubles and 77 extra-base hits, so it's not like he's slapping singles over the shortstop's head.

His BABIP is high, but that's partially the function of all of the line drives he hits, because he hits the ball square a lot of the time.

And while his defense at third base is below average, it's definitely adequate enough when you have his kind of bat.

And you are making it like their whole lineup would be Sandoval, Fielder and Molina. Rowand, Lewis, Winn, and Renteria are all actually decent hitters as well, even if Renteria is struggling and Winn should have a higher BABIP based on his LD%.

@PL

Cain for Fielder wouldn't really improve the team much though.

The Giants don't really have SP depth though. They have Lincecum/Cain, who are really good, they have Unit, and then they have Sanchez and Zito (Sanchez is outperforming Zito if you realize that Sanchez has an insanely high BABIP), but neither are that good.

Please, for the love of God, take Adam LaRoche!

This past offseason I was hoping that Sabean would've signed two free agent players of whom I thought would contribute to the club. Orlando Hudson and Adam Dunn. And look, they both were good, productive signings. Sabean is a sleeper, and is to hooked on good players from the 90's. He needs to get thrown out and replaced with a young, fresh mind. They way it's been looking these last few years, and I hate to admit it, we should've let Sabean go and held onto Ned Colletti.

"Cain for Fielder is absolute perfection. Works really well for both teams:"

Giants would be fools to make this trade, need a bat or not and the brewers would jump all over it. Cain is signed for cheap thru 2010 w/6.5M club option for 2011 and King bloat Fielder is a Boras guy and only under team control thru 2011 and only signed thru 2010, plus 2010 contract is at 10M, leading to a super arbitration fight, plus lose him via FA in 2011.

SF needs Cain ,ore than they need Fielder, look for another bat cheaper this year and then sign a FA in the off season, forget giving up 1/2 of one of the best 1-2 punch starting rotations in the game.

@johns

Apparently you go to the bathroom every time the Giants hit, because their offense is beyond pathetic and needs a power hitter more than anything. Your money argument makes no sense because the Giants must have a trillion dollars to work with for the money they give to mediocrity, theyd easily handle whatever arby bump Prince would get.

Also hitters who play 162 games > SPs who pitch every 5. Cain's great but he's not like Johan in his prime, you definitely take the hit because Alderson and Bumgarner are utterly decimating the minors and will probably be with the big league team in 2010, therefore Cain is trade fodder for that 40+ HR 1000+ OPS bat.

It really is completely mindblowing that people dont think an everyday 1000+ OPS bat isnt like, the MOST valuable thing to an offense that currently has 1 good hitter in it.

Pablo Sandoval is a amazing hitter, and hes only go to get better.

Right now, the Giants are ONLY 5 games above .500 because of Cain and Lincecum. Aside from them and Johnson, they have Zito and Sanchez who are both far from being respectable pitchers right now. If you take away Cain from the rotation and add a question mark in Pucetas, then the Giants have no better than what the Astros have. It'd be one thing if Zito was the pitcher he was 8 years ago or if Bumgarner and Alderson were ready for the bigs, but with the way things are now, the Giants are better off with Cain than Fielder for now and the future.

"It really is completely mindblowing that people dont think an everyday 1000+ OPS bat isnt like, the MOST valuable thing to an offense that currently has 1 good hitter in it."

Pitching wins games with some batting support, not Fat fair defensive 1B and Cain at 9-1 and a 2.33 ERA is one of the best young pitchers in the game and cost controlled.

You don't have to go to the bathroom and read those stats PL.. They are obvious to anyone whether a SF fan or not...

"Pitching wins games with some batting support, not Fat fair defensive 1B and Cain at 9-1 and a 2.33 ERA is one of the best young pitchers in the game and cost controlled."

Being "Fat" and 1B defense matter more than 1000 OPS and arent worth 20-25 quality starts by a SP?

Okay dude, whatever.

Cain for Feilder is a pipe dream. The only teams that are gonna give up big name players are ones that are either close to, or out of contention, and are looking for prospects to rebuild. We've got prospects, and loads of pitchers. Deal to teams that can't threaten playoff hopes. The A's, Nats, Pirates, O's, maybe even The Mariners. These teams all have valuble players we can use. Go for corner in and out feilders with power.

PL you're being pretty ridiculous. The Giants aren't trading Cain. End of story. Lincecum and Cain will be together at the front end of that rotation for the foreseeable future and you can talk about Fielders OPS or WAR all you want but the only evidence of the value of that pitching tandem anyone should need is the Giants' fairly unexpected 38-32 record and NL wild card contention despite a lineup filled with a bunch of average at best regulars surrounding Sandoval.

Sabean also takes a beating pretty regularly around these boards and he deserves a ton of it, but he doesn't get nearly enough credit for a pretty incredible recent draft record, the Schmidt trade which brought the team its first real ace since Estes or maybe even Swift, the Jeff Kent trade that kickstarted a new era of Giants baseball, the Roberto Hernandez/Danny Darwin deal that sealed a playoff run, the Matt Morris dump, a couple solidly underrated signings like Ellis Burks, and just generally throwing out a very good product from the mid/late '90s and early '00s. I'm not saying the Zito, Nathan/Liriano-for-AJ, and even Renteria and Rowand moves weren't just plain awful, but everyone acts like he's the worst GM in the league when he's actually pretty average. He's in a pretty tough position as the Giants don't have the kind of money to make fans forget about a Lugo or JD Drew type of questionable signing, but they have enough money that they won't tolerate trading away guys like Haren as soon as they become really good. If you think about it two GMs generally regarded as among the best in the game have a huge advantage over Sabean in that regard. From the time the Giants dropped out of contending for the NL pennant on a yearly basis (2004) until now the A's have won exactly 30 more games than the Giants. You could say thats impressive given their respective payrolls, but its not as though Beane and the A's haven't had some serious talent to work with in that time and you would expect a team that is coming off an era of serious contention to take a few years to rebuild. I'm not a huge Sabean fan, but he gets way too much ignorant criticism.

I could easily see the Giants pursuing one Nick Johnson or Dan Uggla type of bat or perhaps a LaRoche/Sanchez package deal to shore up two weak spots. Lincecum, Cain and Sandoval are all obviously off the table, and Posey, Villalona, MadBum and Alderson aren't going anywhere before the end of the season. Contrary to popular belief that still leaves plenty of attractive options. Merkin Valdez, Sanchez, Pucetas, Sosa and Noonan could all draw some significant attention. If teams aren't willing to offer any quality bats for those guys the Giants will be fine with giving guys like Bowker and Frandsen (who are both tearing up AAA right now) shots at those two holes and saving their prospects and money until the offseason...the fans are so encouraged by the difference they are seeing in the team this year and Pablo, Timmy and Matt are so fun to watch that a playoff appearance, while a huge bonus, isn't necessary this season.