Freddy Sanchez Rumors: Monday

I assume this means Alderson or Villalona is in the deal? The Giants wouldn't part with Posey or Bumgarner but I can't think of a package that could net them Duke and Sanchez without 1 of the top 4 guys. But, wow, Lincecum, Cain, and Duke together long term with RJ and Zito anchoring the back end of the rotation this year? I like it.

For the Giants to get Sanchez and Duke, a top 5 prospect and maybe another top 10 prospect would have to be involved, or they won't be going to the Giants.

It makes sense for the GIANTS. Fill the hole at 2nd long termish -- and yep Lincecum, Cain, Duke, with Zito and Johnson on back end and Baumgartner coming up in 2 years to replace Johnson.

And yes it would probably be Alderson, Sanchez, and Noonan, Frandsen as well. They may even have to throw in a reliever as a set up man.

That would be two major league pitchers for one, and Noonan to ultimately take Freddie's spot. Frandsen makes it possible to trade Wilson.

"And yes it would probably be Alderson, Sanchez, and Noonan, Frandsen as well. "

oof, I dunno that's an awful lot. I'm sure it would take Alderson but I doubt it would take that much other talent with him. If Sabean is interested in adding SP it probably means he's at least a little concerned with RJ's shoulder, dealing Sanchez for another SP doesn't make much sense to me. Since there's basically no non-Giants market for Freddy Sanchez and the Pirates would like to dump him (I'm not buying their denials that they're desperate to shed his salary) and since Duke doesn't exactly have a great resume before this year I don't think it would take a whole lot more than Alderson, Frandsen, Valdez and Bowker or Gillaspie.

I know it was only one game but Sanchez does seem to have fixed his mechanics and I doubt a SP with a mediocre track record and a slightly overpriced SP is gonna net the Pirates one of the top 30 prospects in the game, a pitcher who just threw a no-hitter AND Noonan.

Uribe has hit well almost all year. The Giants poor production out of the 2B slot is a bit misleading because Uribe has primarily been at SS and 3B, but the Giants certainly aren't desperae to add Freddy Sanchez....... or anyone else.

theJonathan- Noonan would have to be involved. No question about it. He is closer to being major league ready than Negrydch also.

Nick Noonan is thought to be the best hitter and best on base guy in the giants system at any position. Jim Negrydch would be replacement level, this kid has a shot at being a stud.

"And yes it would probably be Alderson, Sanchez, and Noonan, Frandsen as well. They may even have to throw in a reliever as a set up man."

Or Bumgartner without a 5th player.

This could be an amazing boost to our system. Get something done NH...Dont forget about Jack Wilson, Adam LaRoche, Matt Capps, and John Grabow. Move them all...shoot for 2011.

Giants need to take a flyer on this deal as advertised. The could use Duke, but they can live without Sanchez for the rest of this year. He's a good player and would be a nice addition but the Giants need to seek a middle of the order guy first and foremost who can add the long ball threat whenever he's at bat. If they can't accomplish that, then stand pat, let the young guys see where they can take the team the rest of the year and start fresh next season. This was a team that was supposed to lose 100 games. They have wildly exceeded expectations. Will it last? Who knows, but playoffs or not, the Giants don't need this deal right now as advertised/rumored and I would'nt give up ANY top 5 prospects for it.

In all honesty why not send LaRoche, Sanchez, and Duke out to SF if they are interested in all 3 which there have been reports linking them to all 3. Try and get Bumgarner (95% chance they say no) but what does it hurt to ask. If the Pirates trade anyone on there roster and get Alderson in return it's a win in my opinion especially if they get Noonan too.

"the Giants don't need this deal right now as advertised/rumored and I would'nt give up ANY top 5 prospects for it."

Really? Just look at what the pirates got from other trades they have made. Also, these guys are arguably better then any other guys the bux have traded. Freddy is a three time all star, batting champion, and one of the best fielding second basemen in the game, not to mention he leads all 2nd basemen in ba.

The Giants don't NEED to do anything. The team is CLEARLY above anyone's expectations. I'm OK with them riding it out with what they have. If we win the W.C., we won't go far but it will give the kids a taste and make them hungry for next year when bats like Bay and Holliday will be available.

NO WAY Bumgarner or Crawford is included in the deal for ANY Pirate. Madison is our top prospect and Crawford is tearing up A/AA ball.

Alderson/Noonan would most likely be the package built around.

"the Giants don't need this deal right now as advertised/rumored and I would'nt give up ANY top 5 prospects for it."

Why not you are getting a proven hitter that doesn't strike out often and a solid #3 to go behind the two aces. It isn't like the Pirates are asking for Lincecum in the trade. You give up Alderson or even Bumgarner for that matter (once again I must stress I don't see Madison getting moved) you still have a rotation of Lincecum, Cain Bumgarner/Alderson and Duke and I guess Zito too. I just don't see how you can think the Giants would be stupid for making this move.

"This was a team that was supposed to lose 100 games. They have wildly exceeded expectations. Will it last? Who knows, but playoffs or not, the Giants don't need this deal right now as advertised/rumored and I would'nt give up ANY top 5 prospects for it."

Why not make the push for the Playoffs? Don't miss the playoffs because you wouldn't give up one expendable pitcher and another good prospect. The Giants farm system has to be top 3 and guess what. Even if they lose Noonan and Bumgarner/Alderson I am willing to bet it would still be top 5.

Again, I'm not knocking Freddy. He's a good player who I have said several times would be a good addition, but if they Giants are going to give up a top 5 or 2 or 3 top 10's then i'd rather they go after a middle of the order hitter with some consistant long ball chops who can hit behind Pablo and give the Panda even better pitches to hit. Now Duke, I would'nt mind them getting. I think he's better than his numbers show.

You have to apply logic to this whole deal. Teh Giants could definately use Sanchez's bat, there is no doubt in my mind, and they have some good second tier arms to get a deal done. However, the inclusion of duke makes no sense, as the pirates are not going to give up a nice piece of their future without getting a top five prospect in return, and it makes no sense for the giants to give up that valuable of a prospect. I could, however, adam laroche getting invloved.

"Why not you are getting a proven hitter that doesn't strike out often and a solid #3 to go behind the two aces. It isn't like the Pirates are asking for Lincecum in the trade. You give up Alderson or even Bumgarner for that matter (once again I must stress I don't see Madison getting moved) you still have a rotation of Lincecum, Cain Bumgarner/Alderson and Duke and I guess Zito too. I just don't see how you can think the Giants would be stupid for making this move."

because you don't trade Pitching! at least not that much, this is a one sided trade suggested here that would improve the pirates for years to come, way more than F. Sanchez would be able to do by himself.

True Banners fly forever, but I want to see a rotation of Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner, Alderson and Sanchez, for a couple of seasons, then MAYBE hitters wont mind signing with the Giants

"I don't think they should settle for less than Crawford. Especially if they are giving up an All Star MLB SP in Duke."

uggh. See above note about using "All-Star" as a measure of worth. Also, you aren't getting Crawford with Alderson. I'd be shocked if you got Noonan with Alderson. Duke's other years range from well below average to slightly below average. I like him but I'm not convinced a future Duke, Zito, Bumgarner back of the rotation is better than some combination of Sanchez, Alderson, Zito, and Bumgarner.

thegiantswinthepennant said it right.

The Pirates would be among three or four teams with no all stars if that rule wasn't in place.

With that said, I'd love to have both Duke and Sanchez and people would be crazy not to, but I would hate to deal any of the top 4 prospects.

If Alderson is dealt in a package, I want a hitter like Miguel Cabrera. Young, powerful and locked up for a while.

theJonathen- those arent my worst, they are the words of scouts from BA and BP...agree or disagree is your choice, im just stating the opinions of people that do this more than us.

The difference in upside is substancial.

And because of the tools Noonans scouting reports offer, he is absolutely more MLB ready playing A for the giants, than playing AA for the pirates.

"I also don't know how you can say he's not a major upgrade over the guys the Giants have been trotting out at 2nd. What Giant 2nd baseman has been anywhere close to the .830 OPS , that Sanchez has posted?"

Juan Uribe has an OPS of .792, is hitting .301, and thats not even him playing every day throughout the first quarter of the season. He's younger than Sanchez, cheaper, plays more positions, and has more pop.

well giants fans if you ass clowns dont wanna give up your prospects your not going to get DUKE OR SANCHEZ ok so get over it... pirates arent desperate to trade either one...if the neal feels a good package is offered for Sanchez he will make the deal because Sanchez is truly a great hitter. so if your going to sit here and put down duke and sanchez and say there not that good then thats fine you guys dont have to give up your prospects and we will watch you stand pat and watch you slip 10 games back of the wild card.

"Juan Uribe has an OPS of .792, is hitting .301, and thats not even him playing every day throughout the first quarter of the season. He's younger than Sanchez, cheaper, plays more positions, and has more pop."

Uribe is 1 year younger and playing way over his head he has a career OPS of .722 but hasn't posted a .700 OPS since 2005. Also th only position he plays that Freddy doesn't is SS.

SFG55 what do you think the pirates are just going to hand you Duke and Sanchez for not one of your top prospects??? get real... if you dont wanna give up anyone good then your not going to get them simple as that... oh and Sanchez if you got him would instantly become the best Contact Hitter on your team... so dont say hes not worth anything for a team like yours who is in the mix for the wild card your going to want freddy for your team.

@gigantes
"Juan Uribe has an OPS of .792, is hitting .301, and thats not even him playing every day throughout the first quarter of the season. He's younger than Sanchez, cheaper, plays more positions, and has more pop."

F. Sanchez is a year older and can play 3B/2B (has not played enough SS to count). His OPS is 40 points higher than Uribe, and if you look at SLG, the "pop" that Uribe doesn't show up as he trails Freddy .478 to .464.

If you look at their career numbers...it is no comparison.

gigantes: Uribe is a nice UTL player but i'd say he's playing over his head now. His BABIP is 70 points higher than his career average (which is obviously a little higher now given his hot streak). That is a huge fluctuation. Sanchez is an upgrade for the Giants as a whole. There is no way Uribe will match his prodution.

Seveo26
You know who else seems to be playing way over their head when you look at his career numbers? Zack Duke.

"In my opinion after Holliday and maybe Johnson Sanchez is the best bat that is readily available."

Alexis Rios is probably a better PLAYER than any of them, because of his contract he'd probably come cheaper, in terms of prospects, than them too.

You know who else seems to be playing way over their head when you look at his career numbers? Zack Duke.

You are correct that would be the reason the Pirates would be trying to move him. Noone is comparing Duke to another player though. Someone was making the point that Uribe was close to equal to Sanchez.

"Once again and I will continue to say this, do not be ridiculous about the team in your Post Name."

Posted by: theJonathan

You do realize you are INCREDIBLY guilty of doing the exact same thing with the Pirates right? You talk about how little value J.Sanchez has by constantly pointing to his ERA and ignore his high K rates, abnormally high BABIP rate, and abnormally low LOB %s that should bring his ERA way down when they level out. You also completely ignore Duke's poor K rates and AWFUL career WHiP. I smell hypocrite.

"SFG55: exactly what numbers are worthy of an Allstar berth?? Sanchez would have been an Allstar in either league on any team."

Posted by: Steveo26 | July 13, 2009 at 11:23 AM

SteveO-Ian Kinsler didn't make the team in the AL.....if the NL team didn't have to take a Pirate Pablo Sandoval would've been a much, much better IF option than Freddy Sanchez in the NL.

"well giants fans if you ass clowns dont wanna give up your prospects your not going to get DUKE OR SANCHEZ ok so get over it... pirates arent desperate to trade either one...if the neal feels a good package is offered for Sanchez he will make the deal because Sanchez is truly a great hitter. so if your going to sit here and put down duke and sanchez and say there not that good then thats fine you guys dont have to give up your prospects and we will watch you stand pat and watch you slip 10 games back of the wild card."

Because we are obviously doing terribly without them and they are obviously doing wonders for your team, right? Have fun spending 1/6 of your payroll on a 32 year old 2B with no pop next year. Keep telling yourselves you aren't desperate and pretty soon you might even forget you're 12 games under .500 and out of the playoff hunt already.....again.

"SteveO-Ian Kinsler didn't make the team in the AL.....if the NL team didn't have to take a Pirate Pablo Sandoval would've been a much, much better IF option than Freddy Sanchez in the NL."

I disagree only because Sandoval is not a 2B and you should only count at one position for all star voting or else there should be a utility man on the ballot. Sandoval has never appeared in a single game at 2B. You are right that Sanchez wouldn't have been an All Star in the AL but to say he doesn't deserve his selection is a bit of a stretch.

SteveO-Ian Kinsler didn't make the team in the AL.....if the NL team didn't have to take a Pirate Pablo Sandoval would've been a much, much better IF option than Freddy Sanchez in the NL.

Posted by: thegiantswinthepennant

Sandoval should have made the Allstar game no doubt, but not over Sanchez, he couldn't back up 2nd base and Utley wasn't gonna play the whole game. Sanchez has better numbers than Kinsler you are getting way to caught up in HR numbers. Is Kinsler worthy, sure, but not more worthy than Sanchez.

"Player A: .333/15/55.

Player B: .316/6/34.

Player A is not an All Star but Player B is.

Player A = Pablo Sandoval
Player B = Freddy Sanchez

No I don't think Freddy Sanchez should be an all star."

I 100% agree Sandoval should be an All Star but consider this Orlando Hudson is also on the team is he better than Freddy Sanchez this year?

"J. Sanchez does not have a high BABIP rate, its .313 right now which isn't really abnormal to begin with. And is the lowest its ever been in Sanchez's career. If someone does it for multiple years I don't think you can call it Abnormal. You also forget that Sanchez's WHIP is higher than Dukes's. You also seem to ignore Sanchez's high walk rates."

I'm not arguing that Sanchez is a better pitcher than Duke, just that the gap isn't anywhere near as big as you guys make it out to be.

SFG55: what does one have to do with the other. You are comparing apples and oranges? If Sandoval was a 2B than you have a perfect arguement...but he's not I know that and i'm not a Giant fan.

"Sure but with Utley and Hudson on the roster already do they HAVE to have another 2B?"

You are right there should only be 2 secon baseman Utley and Sanchez.

mib-I wouldn't be shocked to see Alderson or Villalona get moved for an impact player or two. Duke+Sanchez for Alderson+mid-to-low level prospect or two really isn't a bad deal

HERE ARE THE FACTS PLAIN AND SIMPLE.

1. June 4, 2009, Pirates trade Nate Mclouth for Gorkys Hernandez, Charlie Morton and Jeff Locke.

2. http://www.minorleagueball.com/2008/10/23/641522/atlanta-braves-top-20-pros

3. The Braves gave up their #8 and #10 prospects along with a pitcher who's career numbers are now 5-10, 5.74 era.

4. Nate Mclouth is under team control until 2011 and is making only about $5 million per until then.

5. Mclouth is only 27.

With all this already taken place, you expect us to give up someone higher than number 8 on our prospect list for a 31 year old with limited power when thats our biggest need?

In essence, to aquire Mclouth we would've had to give up 2B Nick Noonan, RHP Waldis Joaquin, and Jonathan Sanchez.

AND YOU WANT MORE THAN THAT FOR FREDDY SANCHEZ??

Your all crazy, look at the facts.

It's really quite simple. There are no "impact" bats available that would require the names being mentioned. F.Sanchez is practically a give away player with his contract on that team. End of story.

Who said the Giants were world beaters? Everyone knows they are playing better than expected, but anyone who thinks they are world beaters are delusional. That is true. I just don't want them backing up the truck for Freddy. A guy who is a really good player but IMO not good enough to get them over the top.

As someone mentioned, an Alderson+mid-to-low level prospect might not be a bad deal, but who thinks the Bucs won't ask for more?

"As someone mentioned, an Alderson+mid-to-low level prospect might not be a bad deal, but who thinks the Bucs won't ask for more?"

I am pretty sure that if Neal gets Aldersons name on the table it is as good as done.

"It's really quite simple. There are no "impact" bats available that would require the names being mentioned. F.Sanchez is practically a give away player with his contract on that team. End of story."

As I have said earlier the Pirates will have no problem eating a chunk of Freddy's contract to get better prospects. Also Freddy is worth 8MM easily according to fangraphs.com he is worth 11MM.

"Sanchez is a more productive offesive player. "

Better Average - Freddy Sanchez. (.316 vs .270)

Better Power - Nate Mclouth. (14 vs 6)

Better Speed - Nate Mclouth. (11 vs 5)

Younger - Nate Mclouth (27 to 31)

Controllablity - Nate Mclouth. (2011 vs 2010)

Price - Nate Mclouth. ($15.75 million over three years vs 14.1 million over two years starting with 2009 for both)

I picked catagories that don't involve team play like runs and rbis because its unfair for Sanchez.

Yea your right, Sanchez is so much better..

I don't believe Alderson is untouchable, but I would say if he's going to get dealt, we get a power bat in the deal.

Ok and what I meant about Cabrera was not straight up for Ald, I meant a huge package headlined by him.

I wouldn't give up possibly our best trade chip for someone that doesn't fill the biggest need in the process and I don't believe anyone would call me crazy for that.

SFG55: Look at WAR which equates actual value 2.6 for freddy to 2.0 for McLouth. McLouth also isn't really a CF since his defense is so bad so he's getting a lot of credit that he doesn't deserve (yes maybe his D would improve in the corner but maybe not). Despite McLouth having so many more HR's Sanchez acutally has the higher OPS (by only two points but that shows Sanchez still produces offensively).

"Sanchez is a more productive offesive player. "

Than McLouth?

Sanchez wOBA's 2007-2009: .339, .292, .359

McLouth wOBA's 2007-2009: .364, .369, .367

Then again, Sanchez is a plus defensive second baseman and McLouth is a below average defensive outfielder, so overall I would probably take Sanchez over McLouth will all things considered for a single season.

But in terms of trade value, factoring in age, service time, salary and performance, McLouth's easily the more valuable piece.

"I am pretty sure that if Neal gets Aldersons name on the table it is as good as done."

If NH can get Tim Alderson to headline a Freddy Sanchez package, then he should jump for joy and thank Sabean for helping to even things out after the Matt Morris trade.

Boras did not represent Posey, not that that really has much to do with anything right now.

Reporters...report. They don't propose.

As I said before....Sabean loves pitching and with R.J, Zito and J.Sanchez being ??? Obtaining Freddy might be a moot point. Sabean might pursue pitching first.

Doc Halladay for the ENTIRE Giants Minor League System!

BucSox...You made the point. F. Sanchez does have some value. Just not nearly what fans think it is.

"How about Omar Moreno and Kent Tekulve for Greg Minton, Terry Whitefield and a PTBNL"

"They only make that deal if the Giants include John Montefusco"

You can't have The Count but we can prolly part with John D'Acquisto and Johnnie LeMaster

"If NH can get Tim Alderson to headline a Freddy Sanchez package, then he should jump for joy and thank Sabean for helping to even things out after the Matt Morris trade."

We are Talking a deal for Duke+Sanchez here. I would never expect Alderson for Sanchez. Unlike a lot of the people that post on this site I am a realist.

Posted by: BucSox | July 13, 2009 at 12:59 PM

Exactly. Sanchez is not worth Alderson. BUT, if you add in Duke (and why not LaRoche? Doesn't SF need a cheapish infusion of power?) then Alderson+ would be a perfectly valued piece to bring in Sanchez/Duke.