Discussion: What's Next For Baltimore?

I think the O's could be wildcard contenders next year if that young pitching comes through. A Randy Wolf type guy would make sense to me, their offense is looking pretty good so I wouldn't to hard after anyone like Bay or Holliday.

I know one thing, i'd give anyone in our rotation besides jj and hanson for Adam jones. I think he's exactly what the Braves need, though he'd be real tough to net.

God SHUT UP dodger blue i love how people can see into the future and know the o's are gonna be the 4th best team in that division

A big time free agent is the last thing the Orioles need this offseason. They already have their Marquee players (and developing marquee players) in Markakis, Jones, Wieters and Roberts. And like has been said, the crop of FA corner infielders is weak this year so they should probably solve the situation in house or by signing a guy to a one year deal since it is a long shot they will be able to compete in the AL east in 2010. The pitching staff is extremely young and has loads of talent but is still at least a year away from being legit.

Give Matusz, Tillman and Bergeson a full year in the majors before you make a major move. If they look like they could be anchors in the rotation for a competitive team than you pull the trigger on a free agent or two for 2011.

If the pitching staff falls into place and if he is still available (assuming he is interested or not signed long term already) I think the Orioles number one target should be Mauer with the intention of moving him to third base or moving Wieters to first. Both would be able to handle the defensive switch and it would give the Orioles one of the most balanced lineups in baseball. You want a switch hitting first basemen in the same caliber of Mark Teixeira, well Wieters has the tools to become that player. The problem of course would be replacing him behind the plate, but Mauer would do that and more.

think about this being the top 5 in your lineup for 2011:

2b Roberts
RF Markakis
C Mauer
1b Wieters
CF Jones

It has nothing to do with Baltimore, it has to do with the teams in their division.

Love to see a guy like John Lackey join the trio of young excellent Baltimore arms, but that doesn't look realistic. Orioles aren't going to outspend the Yankees and Red Sox should Mauer not re-up with the Twins, so let's not go there.

Personally, I'd continue plowing money into the farm system via the draft and international market and then in 2011 and 2012, "go for it".

Dodgerblue:
Sorry, meant to say they can float around .500 next year and be wildcard contenders the year after. I didn't say they could win the wildcard, but it's not crazy to think they could be around 4 games back.

Posted by: WS2009 | October 05, 2009 at 06:19 PM"

Yeah I agree with that 100 percent.

I feel like Tampa Bay is heading in the wrong direction. Maybe they had their breakout year a little bit too early. If there's a team in the division that can be passed, it's obviously the Rays. BOston seems to get worse every day, and of course if the Yankees fall off the cliff they can just use another 200 million dollars and get every good player in FA.

Two veteran starters Wolf and Marquis for veteran pitching in a young pitching staff. Hank Blalock as a 1B. And bullpen would help.

The Brian Roberts signing was moronic.

Posted by: chicubsvatech | October 05, 2009 at 06:10 PM

Cubs fan still sour about the trade that never happened, I see.

It would probably take Vasquez to get Scott, I'm not really sure though. I know a Lowe for Scott swap probably wouldn't meet the Os standards.

I love the Orioles core for the next few years, however, they dont have one absolute game changer in the form of Roy Halladay, A-Rod.

For me this club needs to make a bold move. How about Prince Fielder. Talk about a dynamic hitter, he'd definitely be a force for that lineup and keep him away from BOS and NYY. In 2 years he'll hopefully hit FA as Matusz, Tillman, Arrietta are blooming and Prince can be the big piece of the pie.

Add on an ace pitcher - Carpenter or someone experienced who'll be a free agent after 2011 or 12 and that team could really be a force, even in that division.

I wasn't saying that they are ACTUALLY getting worse, just that it seems like it with the way NY played.

sorry if i was unclear. i meant the orioles should wait till Prince (hopefully) hits FA in 2 years. Then with him and a stud pitching signing they'd be right in the thick of it.
You are right, Milwaukee would want prolly 2 out Matusz, Tillman, Arrieta to get him. So why give them up if you can (hopefully) get him in 2 years.

The Brian Roberts trade was moronic.

He will not be under that contract at any year where the Orioles will contend. The O's could have shipped him (to the Cubs or Indians) for prospects that might be today's Adam Jones or Wieters. Instead, they have an aging second baseman who will not be under the current contract when the team contends.

If you're rebuilding, which it appears you are, don't spend millions on someone who won't help you long term.

"The Brian Roberts trade was moronic.

He will not be under that contract at any year where the Orioles will contend. The O's could have shipped him (to the Cubs or Indians) for prospects that might be today's Adam Jones or Wieters. Instead, they have an aging second baseman who will not be under the current contract when the team contends.

If you're rebuilding, which it appears you are, don't spend millions on someone who won't help you long term.

Posted by: chicubsvatech | October 05, 2009 at 06:51 PM"

Who exactly from the Cubs would be that "Adam Jones" type player? They already got Felix Pie..

The Brian Roberts trade was moronic.

He will not be under that contract at any year where the Orioles will contend. The O's could have shipped him (to the Cubs or Indians) for prospects that might be today's Adam Jones or Wieters. Instead, they have an aging second baseman who will not be under the current contract when the team contends.

If you're rebuilding, which it appears you are, don't spend millions on someone who won't help you long term.

Posted by: chicubsvatech | October 05, 2009 at 06:51 PM

Like DodgerBlue said, who on the Cubs is turning into a superstar that they would have willingly given to us for Roberts? Pie is already on our team and starting to improve, cedeno, gallagher, and patterson are all on different teams now and not really making a splash.

There's no way the Cubs would have given up Vitters, Starlin Castro, Hak-Ju Lee, or any other infield prospect that would make a difference. Isn't the only "prospect" really playing everyday a 29 year old 1b in Hoffpauir?

Same goes for the Indians, they wouldn't give up LaPorta. I think resigning B-Rob was a great idea and that he deserves to finish his career as an Oriole, he is a fan favorite.

forget breaking the bank this year, not worth it. Try and get some veterans to fill out the roster on one and two year deals, let them help the younger players improve this year, and maybe they bring something back in return at the July deadline, then, if everything is seemingly in place, make the push next off season.

So much nonsense on this post.

TB is not elite. They have had one great year (2008), one decent year (2009) and a bunch of crappy years. They have a good core but now they have to start paying their players. Kazmir was the first, but other casualties of payroll will follow. I don't want to take anything away from TB because they will be good. But how about we wait more than 1 year before anointing them elite.

The O's problem isn't the AL East. The O's would have been last place in the AL West, AL Central, and the NL West. The O's had a losing record to all divisions in the AL. They had roughly the same winning % against the AL East as they did the AL West. Someday people will wake up and realize that baseball in the AL exists outside of Boston and NY.

As for what the O's should do - DON'T spend that money yet. I would look to lock-up every one of their top tier talent to cost controlled contracts. Typically that means paying more up front but less on the back-end. This will work out perfectly for Baltimore who now have some flexibility but will hit a huge cash crunch as their young studs hit arb in a few years.

This would allow the O's to properly budget into '11 and '12. They should have considerable money to spend via FA at that point. Simultaneously, their young talent should mature and be very productive by then. Trying to win in '10 is just a foolish plan.

"How about an Oriole OF to the Braves for a SP. Do the orioles really want to depend on all those young guys to lead the pitching staff? Sure could use a veteran SP on that staff as a mentor. What would Javy Vazquez be able to get?"

Uhh, the O's are getting closer, but that doesn't mean they need to trade for a 1 year rental. Wrong idea, period.

I doubt the omission of Adam Jones' name from the entire Baltimore Sun article was an oversight.

Pitchers have figured out Adam Jones, who hit only .234 after his spectacular first two months. Jones' plate discipline was among the league's worst at his position:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=al&qual=y&type=5&season=2009&month=0

Jones' defense turned into a liability this season as well:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=fld&lg=al&qual=n&type=0&season=2009&month=0

At age 24, Jones has time to turn it around, but the early results are not promising.

I doubt the omission of Adam Jones' name from the entire Baltimore Sun article was an oversight.

Pitchers have figured out Adam Jones, who hit only .234 after his spectacular first two months. Jones' plate discipline was among the league's worst at his position:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=bat&lg=al&qual=y&type=5&season=2009&month=0

Jones' defense turned into a liability this season as well:

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=cf&stats=fld&lg=al&qual=n&type=0&season=2009&month=0

At age 24, Jones has time to turn it around, but the early results are not promising.

Posted by: thrill55 | October 05, 2009 at 09:13 PM

I definitely agree with you that his plate discipline is god awful and he certainly has been over hyped, but his defense is not that bad. If you notice, Jacoby Ellsbury has a worse UZR and you don't hear anybody complaining about his defense...

"Just make sure not to Dusty Baker the young arms."

I like it.

It is amazing the guy is allowed to manage.

The O's are pretty much dead in the water until there is a salary cap.
There is no way that they ever will compete having a $30M payroll as compared to the Yankees $204M.
Sorry O's fans but that is the sad truth.

Hellion how stupid can you be? They only have 39 mil committed for next year but have over twice that amount to spend

Beltre at 3B intrigues me too. With Mora all but gone, there's an opportunity to increase the teams' power numbers with his replacement. I do have questions about Beltre though, not sure about his mental makeup, but he seems like a decent stopgap.

If you think about it the O's have had lesser stopgaps than Beltre at both 1B and 3B for a couple years now.

The Orioles need a first basemen a third basemen a closer and a starting pitcher. With there being no corners infield power hitters available they should take a look at good defensive players for those positions. They should maybe sign Adrian Beltre for a year or 2. He is a gold glover and he might even play some 1st base. Or they could look at doug Mientkiewicz who is an awsome defender. The tigers are going to loose Brandon Lyon and Fernado rodeny The orioles need to find a closer some where cause watching Jim Johnson close out games is scary. Once again just like last year i want to see Brad Penny in a orioles uniform. Maybe even Livan Hernendez at least he will eat up some innings for us.

Considering the Orioles have no other options at second base and no one who could bat leadoff, I'd say the Roberts extension was a good idea. He's one of the better leadoff hitters in the league, and he's our sparkplug. He gets everything started for the Orioles, and without him, I can honestly say the Orioles would have won the Bryce Harper sweepstakes. The Cubs "offer" for Roberts was a joke. Are any of the players that the Cubs offered the Orioles in that package still with the team for crying out loud?

As for Adam Jones, relax guys he's still young. He showed a lot of promise this year, he just needs to become more disciplined. Remember also that he is a converted shortstop and that up until about... 3 years ago I think, he had never really played outfield before in his life.

The Orioles have Brandon Snyder in the minors, so there's your future first baseman. Luke Scott and Michael Aubrey should be an efficient platoon at first until he's ready. Third baseman, the Orioles have Bell, but Bell might be better off as a DH. The Orioles should kill two birds with one stone and see how much it would take to get Kouzmanoff and Heath Bell together. Third base problem and closer problem solved.

And no thanks on Penny or Livan. I'd rather take a risk on Ben Sheets. The Orioles should go after a guy like Lackey or Marquis. If they can't get either, they should go after Sheets or someone like him. No use signing two starters since Jake Arreita will be coming up some time next year. I actually like the rotation for next year. Young and talented.

Lackey/Sheets/Marquis
Brad Bergesen
Brian Matusz
Jeremy Guthrie/Jake Arrieta
Chris Tillman