Bradley Being Discussed In Three-Way Deal

I feel it. This one is going to happen for real.

I dont mind it at all, and when the whole Bradley thing first started taking place I speculated that Toronto and Seattle might be the best bets for him to land - so it fits into the limited number of teams that would be willing to give him a try in my mind.

Terrible deal for the Jays, the whole point of getting rid of Overbay and moving Lind to first base is so they can put Randy Ruiz in the DH spot

This really does make most sense. I don't like Bradley as a DH though. Maybe Snider as the DH and Bradley in a corner?

Make it happen OMAR!!

I don't get why Overbay, a good player on a decent one year deal is being discussed with these bad contracts.

The Cubs are going to have to eat most of the contract and add another player, maybe Sean Marshall to make the deal attractive.

bradley has a vesting option for the third year of his deal which has already vested based on games played in right field, giving him the 2 years and 20MM left...

As a Cubs fan, I would like to say HELL NO!

Castillo is a DECENT leadoff hitter, and he can steal 20 bases in a good year. Still, he's gonna be a .280 hitter with 15 SB and no HR, probably. 8 HR in 4 years combined? PASS. His defense is TERRIBLE (below Dan Uggla in UZR and WELL below Fontenot or Baker).

The Cubs shed a bit of cap (if there's no cash they send out with Bradley), but Baker will have a similar AVG, and the OPS favors Baker.

I wouldn't want to trade someone like Bradley that could hit .270 with 30 HR to get a THIRD average at best 2B.

The Jays need more. Overbay does not have a bad contract, it is very reasonable.

As a Cubs fan, I would like to say HELL NO!

Posted by: cubs223425 | November 09, 2009 at 06:10 PM

So you'd rather spend $20M on Milton Bradley the next 2 seasons than $12M on Luis Castillo the next 2 seasons?

For all the crap Castillo takes, he's never been a clubhouse cancer.

I don't know if I believe this rumor. I find it hard to believe that AA would make Milton Bradley his first move in Toronto. Aside from the character issues, the team has iron gloves like Travis Snider and Adam Lind willing to DH or switching positions if need be. It would limit their flexibility in that regard. I would be fascinated to see how Cito Gaston would deal with him, though.

As a Mets fan, I'd take on Overbay. He's a fairly decent player that would work very well in a platoon situation, and would allow the Mets to finally obtain Orlando Hudson, whether or not that's a good thing.

I wouldn't want to trade someone like Bradley that could hit .270 with 30 HR to get a THIRD average at best 2B.

When did Bradley ever come close to 30 HR.

"I wouldn't want to trade someone like Bradley that could hit .270 with 30 HR to get a THIRD average at best 2B.

When did Bradley ever come close to 30 HR.

Posted by: cubbyrick | November 09, 2009 at 06:20 PM"

Typo. I meant 20, lol.

"This doesn't make much sense for the Jays though who don't seem to be adding payroll and giving up a 360 wOBA at 7 mill for Bradley at 2/20 (and doesnt he have an easily attainable option for a 4th year to the contract?). There has to be some cash going from us to the Jays for this to happen"

No, the easily attainable option was for the third year which I think kicked in at 75 games played in 2009. There is no fourth year associated with Bradley's contract.

People have to be off their rocker to believe this will go down. If it does the Jays have lost their minds. Overbay has positive value! The guy is not that bad. Trading him for Snyder and cash at least makes some sense. Getting Milton and taking on more money for a guy that can actually net you something would be unforgivable!

The teams have discussed the framework of a deal. The frame being that of a twice wrecked pinto.

If there are no legs to it, why bother reporting by Rosenthal. And if it's been discussed, but not in a 'direct fashion', what the heck does that mean? How does one discuss something indirectly?

Me and my brother worked out the framework of this message i'm currently typing. I'll tell you upfront there's no real credence to it. But we did it indirectly, meaning he doesn't know that i included his name or anything i typed, and we really didn't firm out the details.

Grain of salt.

"So you'd rather spend $20M on Milton Bradley the next 2 seasons than $12M on Luis Castillo the next 2 seasons?"

He's a poor fielder with a pretty weak bat and injury concerns at a position most Cubs fans wanted something better. I can understand the frustration.

But some of my fellow Cubs fans also dont seem to get that the Cubs are pretty much forced to trade him now at a time where his value cant get any lower. Our stance really has to be one of "whats the best of the worst we can get" right now, and Castillo is better then some of the many other options being tossed around. If this same fan had merely an option of Castillo, Silva or Byrnes he would probably answer Castillo.

Um, how is this deal good at all for the Jays? They're essentially trading 7 mil that would be off their books after this season for 20 mil over the next two seasons?

Oh, wait. Rosenthal's reporting it? Never mind then.

Human-

I could see Bradley for Burrell and a B+ prospect with the Cubs adding 3-4m.

Then the Cubs trying to flip Burrell to anyone who'll listen.

There is absolutley no chance this deal happens. I guarantee it. This would be so stupid on the Blue Jays part. Who would want this piece of crap who carries all that garbage. This is a ridiculus rumor and WILL NOT HAPPEN!

"But some of my fellow Cubs fans also dont seem to get that the Cubs are pretty much forced to trade him now at a time where his value cant get any lower. Our stance really has to be one of "whats the best of the worst we can get" right now, and Castillo is better then some of the many other options being tossed around. If this same fan had merely an option of Castillo, Silva or Byrnes he would probably answer Castillo.

Posted by: SuzysMan | November 09, 2009 at 06:30 PM"

I think the media has overblown this. I know Bradley was a TERRIBLE teammate, but Jaramillo fixed him in TEX. He may be able to manage the same thing (or something similar) in '10, then the Cubs could get something back for him at the dealine or something. I would say that if they can't get anything more than Castillo, try him out with Jaramillo for a few months. Either he gets better, then they keep him or get something of value in return, or trade him in June/July. Like you said, his value can't really go down, so why not at least try to let him fix himself before totally giving up on him.

Ken Rosenthal is reporting this, so let's take this cum grano salis for the time being.

I know the Jays want to get some power in the lineup, and Bradley fits that profile. However I'm not sure I would equate Bradley with Overbay or Castillo. The idea of throwing in cash on top of that would make most Cub fans cringe.

Luis Castillo's uptick in on-base percentage came thanks to the gap-hitter wonderland in Citi Field. However, Castillo finished 2009 with 16 extra-base hits. I have little faith in his ability to slap or hit bloop singles in Wrigley with similar success. His wOBA will drop. Plus, the Cubs are a horrid base-running team. The team's overall approach is terrible and the coaching doesn't help anyone. Castillo's speed numbers drop as well, thereby reducing his runs.

So, essentially, the Cubs would acquire Luis Castillo's less-successful shadow in this deal, which would mean an immediate loss.

Sorry, Mr. Rosenthal, but I just don't believe this one.

Defending someone based on average is a million times better than bashing someone for being a CLUBHOUSE CANCER OH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Oh n/m B-R isn't showing 2009 stats.

"Note to Jim Hendry.....DO IT NOW!!!! Castillo would be perfect atop the lineup with Theriot batting 2nd. Fukudome could then be moved between either Ramirez and Soriano, or Soriano and Soto.

Posted by: jlb1980 | November 09, 2009 at 06:41 PM"

Yeah, nothing like 8 HR in 4 years, 12 2B, and 20 SB with EPICALLY BAD defense is PERFECT! Seriously, at least Baker can hit 5 HR in a year and play good defense. Like the Ruck said before, Castillo would see his 2B and 3B totals go down in the smaller park (though he may reach that 4-year high of 3 HR!!!).

I don't want a guy that won't score runs enough, won't hit 2Bs, won't hit HRs, won't defend to save his life (his UZR numbers were below Dan Uggla), and made his name stealing bases--which he can'tdo anymore. Again, Bradley had maybe a career-worst year, and he is being discussed in this for Castillo, who is playing at the best level he can.

So the WORST of Bradley rivals the BEST of Castillo. Do you want a prayer with Bradley in RF everyday or no hope with Castillo on the bench behind Baker?

I guess this is good for the Mets...but they need a RIGHTY firstbase to platoon with Murphy...

I love how the guy using AVG, HR, and RBI to compare hitting prowess is the guy saying Overbay plays below average defense. He's very very good with the glove.

Perhaps Bradley will be traded more than once this offseason?

Since Bradley's value has dropped so low, I'd be inclined to just wait to see if he can turn it around.

Unfortunately, by suspending Bradley at the end of the year, Hendry has backed himself into a corner. Now he can't even use the "i think i'll hand on to him" thing to get some kind of leverage with the other team. Nice work, Jim!

this seems way too smart for hendry to pull off

"this seems way too smart for hendry to pull off

Posted by: Make.Me.GM. | November 09, 2009 at 07:07 PM"

Completely agree. Vernon Wells would have to be sent to the Cubs as well, full contract, otherwise this makes very little sense.

"Overbay is a great defensive 1B. He also consistently posts an .850 OPS vs. RHP. He is also a FA after 2010, when he earns only $7MM. His WAR value is over $8MM (+2).

Posted by: andy mc | November 09, 2009 at 06:57 PM"

Among 1B with 750+ innings played at the position, Overbay is 17th in UZR/150 rating. That's average, not great. His UZR/150 is actually below-average slightly (-0.8).

Overbay's WAR was $8 million in '08, compared to Bradley's $20.

"I love how the guy using AVG, HR, and RBI to compare hitting prowess is the guy saying Overbay plays below average defense. He's very very good with the glove.

Posted by: inthewings | November 09, 2009 at 07:02 PM"

Again, a UZR that was -0.8, is NOT "great," or "very very good," or whatever. He was SEVENTEENTH among 1B with 750+ innings at 1B in terms of UZR. NOT GREAT, AVERAGE!

@Wrigleyterror37:

How is the forever hurt Eric Byrnes better than Castillo?

"Again, a UZR that was -0.8, is NOT "great," or "very very good," or whatever. He was SEVENTEENTH among 1B with 750+ innings at 1B in terms of UZR. NOT GREAT, AVERAGE!"

I've been watching the guy play 1st base for 3 years. He is above average.

Doesn't make alot of sense for the Jays. I think Bradley stays put until Griffey makes a decision - Griffey retires then M's check out how much Matsui wants.. if he is too pricey then swap Silva for Bradley even up. What would be really sweet would be a Bradley/Marshall/Fontenot/Stevens to SD for Bell - maybe even toss in a few mil. but don't see that happening. Maybe Bradley/Zambrano for Maine and Beltran ( ok thats a stretch but I guess happy hour is hitting me lol)

“Like you said, his value can't really go down, so why not at least try to let him fix himself before totally giving up on him.”

Because of his being “a TERRIBLE teammate” like you said. His creation of his issues only to ensure they become the issue of everyone around him. Multiple people in the clubhouse commented on the frustration over his inability to take any responsibility for anything. Multiple people in the clubhouse stated that his problems seem to stem from himself. Multiple people in the clubhouse supported the decision to suspend him, and dismissed his comments about the city, media pressure and general feeling around the club. Now all of a sudden he will come back to the organization, and despite all that, he will fit in as a tolerable teammate? You don’t see a recipe for even bigger issues developing?

“Jaramillo fixed him in TEX”

You know what, that isnt really true. Take a look at Bradley from 07 to 08 – he was basically the same exact hitter. Same ISO. Similar BB/K (dropped a bit in Tex). His BB% went up, but his K% spiked just the same. Similar speed (dropped a bit in Tex). Same zone-swing%, same out-of-zone swing percentage, same swing percentage, similar contact rate (went down a bit in Tex)…

There are only two things that really changed from 07 to 08.
1) playing time. He managed to get 510 PA as a DH in Tex
2) BAbip. It was a reasonable .329 in 2007 and unrealistic .396 in 2008 whle playing in a park notorious for inflating BAbip and hitting production overall.

The only conclusion is, Jaramillo didn’t fix him – he had a fluke season in an environment which increases their likelihood.

“so why not at least try to let him fix himself before totally giving up on him.”

Because his production isnt the reason he has become a priority to move this offseason – everything else is. Remember when he got pulled into Lous office because of the media boycott he started? Remember when he said “not going to happen” when the media asked about him possibly moving down in the order? Remember when Lou went off on him because “nothing is ever his fault”? Remember when he pulled himself from the lineup, multiple times, because he claimed not to be 100% and Soriano’s “we don’t need him” comment? Remember his not paying attention in the OF to the game he was in? The Cubs suspended him and are dead-set on trading him for a reason. We don’t even know everything that could have taken place. Sure the media has run with it, and it might seem overblown – but a car exploring then taking another with it doesn’t eliminate the gigantic problem of a car exploding.

I don’t see how he could be brought back. Remember, he claims all his problems this year stem from media attention and a city which booed him. You think those things will get better giving it a second try now that he has blamed the media and city for 100 years without a WS win?

touchmymonkey, the mets aren't trading beltran and why would they trade him for bradley. Beltran is a way better player than him and worth more money than the mets are paying him.

by the way its rosental reporting this. when was he ever right?

"Bradley's an upgrade for Jays because it lets them move Lind to 1B and opens up a corner outfield spot (or CF, if you move Wells to right) for someone else."

I'm not really seeing how that makes him an upgrade. Lind doesn't necessarily have to move to first base (although he does kind of fit there theoretically and I'd love to see how he fares) and, personally, I think Bradley fits the DH role better then he does out on the field. For what he's worth, I think Randy Ruiz should at least be given a shot at a full season as DH. (with the very occasional start at 1B when needed)

Anthopolous should be looking elsewhere.

Wow, are all these people serious about bashing the guy who used HR, AVG, and RBI as evaluating statistics? What's the big deal? Sure RBI aren't so good, but AVG and HR? In case you haven't noticed about 99.9% of the baseball world looks at these stats first. I think people try to make these stats look bad because they want to sound smarter themselves. I understand, wOBA, and all those fancy statistics with their long formulas are better indicators, but those others aren't useless.

What he was trying to say is that Bradley had a bad season. Throw any fancy stat you want at me, but there's no denying it.

If you haven't discussed things "in a direct fashion" then you haven't discussed things. Plus, as many have noted, the chances of the Blue Jays making a deal for anyone who costs any money is full-on preposterous. After all, they need to find a way to get more playing time for a 32-year-old minor league journeyman.

Overbay is a solid first baseman. He isn't spectacular, but if the Mets grabbed him and say Ryan Garko (.882 OPS against lefties from 07-09) on a cheap deal, they could platoon them for an OPS of ~.825-850. That's a solid combo for a 6 or 7 hitter. If they can get a power bat to hit 5th, all of a sudden you are looking at Reyes, Hudson (not a give, but likely), Wright, Beltran, INSERT LEFT FIELD BAT, OVERBAY/GARKO, FRANCOUER and whoever is going to catch. It's a solid lineup, assuming they can pick up a 5 hole hitter.

What were looking at now Mets fans!
C-
1B-Overbay
2B-Hudson
3B-Wright
SS-Reyes
LF-
CF-Beltran
RF-Frenchy

I just don't see how this works out for the Jays. Its not like the Jays would be contending next year....aren't they building for the future? Does it really matter whether Lind shifts to 1b in 2010 as opposed to 2011?

For the Jays they would be getting $7 mil come off the books after the season. Now they have to pay Miltons $12 mil in 2011 (even if they don't have to pay the entire salary)?

It just doesn't make sense for them.

This topic gotta be the most boring WHO CARE'S ABOUT MILTON BRADLEY and overbay!!!!! they both are overrated

nrmax88 - Evans isn't good at any of the 4 corner positions and he has about 100AB's against lefties in his career. He had a .693 OPS in AAA last year, admittedly he had a terrible start. There is no reason the Mets should go into the season relying on Evans to provide quality at bats. I would like to see him actually have a solid year in AAA before we anoint him a starting player, even if it's just in a Platoon. Also, no reason for Hudson to get a 4 year deal, but he is likely to age much better than Castillo. Don't care if it's Garko, or someone else, but I would like to have a guy that will give predictable production, as opposed to last year, when we were looking at Murphy and Church as corner outfielders.

Wrigleyterror37,
Your proposal:
Cubs get Byrnes
Jays get Bradley + Snyder
DBs get Overbay, Cubs Prospect

So you are willing to trade Bradley AND a prospect for just Byrnes? The Byrnes who has been worth -0.4 WAR over the last two seasons combined? I don’t like it. How would we not be better off taking Castillo (2.4 WAR the last 2) and having the Mets send the prospect? Or just eliminating the middleman and sending Bradley + some 2011 cash for Byrnes straight up?

Besides, it seems the Blue Jays are the team where this hangs up – coming up with something to remove them is probably better then removing the Mets

“NOW i agree with SuzyMan and cubs223425 we should try to fix him [Bradly] then trade him in june/july if he doesnt work out.”

Wow, wow, wow… I didn’t say that. I see now way possible that Bradley on the Cubs for even a week is a good idea. I don’t want to see another season of distractions and confrontations solely because we hope to get a tiny bit more return on our sunk cost.

SS Reyes
2B Hudson
CF Beltran
3B Wright
LF Bay
RF Francoeur
1B Overbay
C Napoli
P Santana

souvenircity: how come you slotted bay in there? i mean i wont get greedy, but if i had to pick one of the two, i would go with holliday 10 times out of 10... whats your reasoning?

also i think bay/holliday would hit cleanup and overbay would platoon with murphy