Ben Sheets To Throw For Teams Tuesday

SATURDAY, 8:31pm: The Mets will be in attendance when Sheets throws on Tuesday, according to Ed Price of Fanhouse.com (via Twitter).

Earlier today, Cardinals GM John Mozeliak confirmed to fans and reporters that the club will be in Monroe, Louisiana to watch Sheets as well.

FRIDAY, 4:36pm: Brewers GM Doug Melvin tells Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that the Brewers will watch Sheets next week. Haudricourt suggests the Brewers are just being dilligent.

1:33pm: The Dodgers will watch Sheets pitch, according to Dylan Hernandez of the LA Times (via Twitter).

11:42am: The Angels could use Sheets, but will they watch him throw? "Not at this time," GM Tony Reagins tells Bill Shaikin of the LA Times.

8:40am: Cardinals GM John Mozeliak tells Rob Rains of the St. Louis Globe-Democrat that the Cards will "likely" watch Sheets throw.

MLB.com's Jordan Bastian adds the Blue Jays to the list of interested teams.

THURSDAY, 1:52pm: The Rangers will be in attendance on Tuesday, writes MLB.com's T.R. Sullivan.  Sheets and Rich Harden would be a high-upside, high-injury risk pair of rotation additions.

11:49am: Ben Sheets will throw for teams Tuesday at the University of Louisiana at Monroe, reports ESPN's Tim Kurkjian.  Said Sheets: "They're going to like what they see."  Kurkjian indicates six to ten teams have expressed interest, the Cubs included.  Kurkjian believes a one-year deal with incentives is in order.  He says to "keep an eye on Seattle," given Jack Zduriencik's familiarity with Sheets.  The Mariners were first connected to Sheets on December 11th by Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports. 

Kurkjian talked to Sheets about his year off from baseball, after the righty had flexor tendon surgery in February.  Sheets feels "refreshed" and "fantastic," and seems raring to go.  He thinks he can regain his old form, adding "Watch, I'll show 'em." 

Rumored suitors aside from the Cubs and Mariners?  The Rangers, Yankees, Mets, and Orioles have been linked to Sheets this offseason, but several of those clubs have added starters since.  The Angels and Dodgers would make sense.


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146 Comments on "Ben Sheets To Throw For Teams Tuesday"


cookmeister
5 years 7 months ago

i wish the angels would sign him, but he is probably going to go to the NL

CardinalsOwn
5 years 7 months ago

Carpenter
Wainwright
Sheets
Penny
Lohse

Imagine that, With or without sheets its a arguable best rotation in the NL.

5 years 7 months ago

Best rotation in the bigs

5 years 7 months ago

Ha, didn’t he say he wasn’t going to throw for teams? I guess he realize that just bcus his last name was Sheet he is not getting 12M.

Maximus_Mansteel
5 years 7 months ago

Goodness, a Mariner rotation with Hernandez, Lee, and Sheets could be monstrous. They seem to have the pitching depth to protect Sheets and keep his innings down, so its possible he could remain effective throughout the season (hopefully no need to ride him like the Brewers had to).

5 years 7 months ago

Just a question, who follows after Hernadnez and Lee? I don’t think you want Sheet in the AL BTW.

Maximus_Mansteel
5 years 7 months ago

I would imagine Ryan Rowland-Smith would be my first choice to be the number 3 guy, but I feel Sheets is capable (if healthy, of course) of matching up favorably against a good number of AL number 3’s. I think he would out class a good majority (and has the skills to outclass virtually all) fourth starters in the AL. So, I would think that, so long as they are able to keep him healthy (no easy thing), he would be a great addition to the Mariners.

5 years 7 months ago

I’m just asking bcus you said the Mariners have “the pitching depth to protect Sheets and keep his innings down” which would mean that they have some other good pitchers as their 3rd, 4th and 5th that can eat innings and it seems like they don’t. I think the Giants have the depth to keep Sheet healthy and the ball park for him to have good #s

DarthVader87
5 years 7 months ago

Would probably be Felix, Lee, Sheets, Snell, Rowland-Smith.

Maximus_Mansteel
5 years 7 months ago

Well, the back end (the two behind Rowland-Smith) of the Mariners rotation as it stands is a bit weak, but with the addition of Sheets, it pushes the question mark they seem to have for the 5th starter out and makes Ian Snell their #5. He has pitched over 200 innings once, although it was in ’07. His quality is certainly debatable, but then again most #5’s have that problem, that’s why they’re #5’s and not higher. A wild card there is how good the Mariners bullpen is. With two solid workhorses at the top of the rotation, the bullpen can most likely afford to eat some innings, and if they are as good as they were last year, those innings will mostly be good ones.

The Giants would also be a good match. Sheets could be the fourth or fifth starter with Sanchez taking the other spot. That would most likely make Bumgarner the spot starter/long reliever. Do you think the Giants would want Bumgarner in that role, or do you think they would prefer him to start regularly?

S8P7W
5 years 7 months ago

Rowland-Smith, Snell and a whole lot of question marks. My personal favorite if Doug Fister, but that is purely a name thing.

pcain1027
5 years 7 months ago

lol

5 years 7 months ago

All these players always feel great and better than ever. Haven’t seen one say they feel like crap.

allabouthephils
5 years 7 months ago

The day they feel like crap with a contract on the line will be a miracle hahahaha… All of them seem like they can climb everest when they auditioning…

It’s when he gives up 4 bombs and 10 runs in an inning and a third that the excuses start pouring out more than the Bush administration…

crunchy1
5 years 7 months ago

With those kind of statements it sounds like he’s still angling for a big contract

binzokun
5 years 7 months ago

The Mariners?

King Felix — Lee — Sheets?

if Sheet still has the stuff….that’s a absolute nasty front end of the rotation.

5 years 7 months ago

His stuff as never been put to question, his health on the other hand is miserable. and it doesn’t matter how good you are if you are not pitching.

Sampsonite168
5 years 7 months ago

I don’t see how any AL team makes sense for Sheets given the precedent Smoltz and Penny set for career NL pitchers debuting in the AL after coming off major injuries.

bbxxj
5 years 7 months ago

Sheet is a totally different animal than Smoltz or Penny. When healthy his stuff is in the elite catagory and would play in either league. Penny doesn’t have near as good of stuff and Smoltz is much older.

Sampsonite168
5 years 7 months ago

True, but I still don’t think that it’s just a coincidence that Smoltz and Penny both did terrible in the AL, and then immediately starting pitching good as soon as they returned to the NL. And put yourself in Sheets’ shoes. You want to prove you can stay healthy and put up the best stats possible so you can land a lucrative long term deal next year. Which league would you rather go to?

Maximus_Mansteel
5 years 7 months ago

Sheets has always (with the exception of the partial season when Sabathia was in MIL) been relied upon to be the ace of the Brewers. This often caused them to work him harder (and rely upon him more) than I think he’s capable of. The added workload and responsibility of being an ace seemed to wear him down at the end of many seasons. Perhaps the chance to pitch behind Hernandez and Lee would lessen both the pressure/expectations/workload enough for Sheets to succeed.

5 years 7 months ago

That is why you can’t count on him to be a #2. and definitely not after being out a whole year.

Wasn’t he out once for like a month with like an ear infection or something like that?

Sampsonite168
5 years 7 months ago

Usually when he starts to feel pain he takes the liberty of taking himself out of the game rather than pitching through the pain. Some call it smart, others will say it shows a lack of toughness.

Maximus_Mansteel
5 years 7 months ago

He would be the #3 or #4 in Seattle, something probably better suited for him, expecially in the AL. Yes, the missed year leaves a huge question mark, but I’ve watched him pitch for years (I live near Chicago) and I have to say a lot of his numbers don’t say how flat out dominant he can be. I’ve always thought it had to do with the responsibilty and workload the Brewers have put on him (they never had anyone else except CC), and perhaps pitching lower in a rotation would help alleviate those problems.

About the ear infection, I can’t recall exactly, but it seemed like he took himself out of games for a wide variety of reasons. Perhaps he’s a headcase, perhaps just not built for a 162 game season (well, either way that’s apparently true), but an ace he isn’t. He definately has the ace stuff, but much like the Rich Harden/Eric Bedard’s of the world, he just can’t anchor the top of a rotation.

JBuhnerFan
5 years 7 months ago

I think we are better off bringing back Bedard imagine if he gets healthy by some miracle then we have three aces but i doubt we pu three lefties in the rotation rrs, lee, Bedard if healthy

5 years 7 months ago

#2 starter is such an irrelevant designation. the only time being the #1-3 starter matters is during the playoffs and during the first week or so of the season. it really only matters in the playoffs, though.

n0s
5 years 7 months ago

You guys seem to forget how good the Mariners defense is and how good of a pitcher’s park SafeCo Field is.

n0s
5 years 7 months ago

You guys seem to forget how good the Mariners defense is and how good of a pitcher’s park SafeCo Field is.

bbxxj
5 years 7 months ago

Ah, I see. You were looking at it from Sheet’s perspective. Yeah, if he wants to put up some nice K and ERA numbers going to the NL makes sense as does pitching with that defense in Seattle behind you.

bomberj11
5 years 7 months ago

Maybe it had something to do with both both pitching in the AL East? Not to mention that neither had pitched in that league before, and it was all new teams, new hitters, and stadiums. Although the NL is probably weaker, Smoltz and Penny were horrendous in the AL, but when they went back to their old league they dominated.

bobbybaseball
5 years 7 months ago

All this hype will raise his price beyond what the Cubs can afford.

bobbybaseball
5 years 7 months ago

All this hype will drive his price beyond what the Cubs can afford.

cderry
5 years 7 months ago

Echo!…echo….echo…

studio179
5 years 7 months ago

I’m sure he will get more than the Cubs could offer anyway.

BlueCatuli
5 years 7 months ago

Someone is going to get a bargain on this guy. With that many suitors no one will be bidding against themselves. I bet this guy gets no more than 7MM guaranteed per year with incentives to earn 12MM per year. If the Cubs get him he better be healthy. I would be pretty nervous about an entire season hanging on the health of 6 major producers in Zabrano, Lilly, Sheets, Ramirez, Soriano, and Soto.

Mickeyblue
5 years 7 months ago

It still blows my mind that the Cubs passed on Harden and are now going after Sheets. It just doesn’t make any sense to me why they would go after a health risk like this when it seemed they were trying to go after more reliable players since letting Harden go.

big15mike
5 years 7 months ago

this is the only guy left on FA market for mets that makes sense. would be a perfect num 2 behind johan..

5 years 7 months ago

I think he still is a big question mark to be counted as you #2. You don’t want to do that with Sheets

5 years 7 months ago

is there any reason why the mets cant sign piniero (2 yr backloaded) and sheets ( 1 yr with option ) deals ?

Mickeyblue
5 years 7 months ago

I think this is the worse guy the Mets could possibly go after out of quality FA’s left. Did you guys not learn last year when having basically half your team on the DL. The Mets already have so many injury prone players it’s ridiculous and now signing Bay and most likely Molina you are adding two more and now you want a 3rd in Sheets when your star player is already out in Beltran. My gosh Omar should be fired on the spot if he even attends the workout even thinking of signing Sheets. The entire roster is ?’s.

Mets need a work horse that will pitch 200 innings and stay healthy. Pineiro and Garland would be the Mets best options and I’m actually really suprised they aren’t in on Padilla he seems like a perfect fit for the Mets.

guydavis
5 years 7 months ago

The Phillies have raised the bar and the only way Mets are gonna win the division is by taking risks. Garland would be nice to sure up the rotation but they’re gonna have to take a risk on Sheets or Wang in order to have a true number 2 to compete with the Phils. 1 risky guy and one Garland would be nice.

Mickeyblue
5 years 7 months ago

Haven’t the Mets taken enough risks in the past to have learned a lesson that taking risks every single year and going after it all each year when they need to rebuild is why they’re in the situation they are now? If the Mets and it’s fans had a drop of patience they could be an incredible organization but the I want it and I want it now approach hasn’t worked and it’s not going to start now. I understand Met’s frustration but at some point you have to think of the future or atleast next season not just this one. The Mets are ran like the Federal Government

FNDomination
5 years 7 months ago

The Cubs need to take this risk whether it be with Sheets or Bedard. I prefer Sheets, but the fact is the Cubs core is down to its final shot this season.

brewersfan
5 years 7 months ago

Sheets has always had great stuff, but has no balls whatsoever. He seems to have a knack for physically falling apart at just the wrong time (see September 2007 and September 2008.) I would be shocked if he signed with an American League team.

losingfaithinmightymelvin
5 years 7 months ago

Don’t forget the time he took himself out of the game in the first inning against the Cubs a couple years back because he thought he might have a blister. Anti-Clutch!

NewYorkYankees
5 years 7 months ago

Where does he fits in the Yankees?

universalguru
5 years 7 months ago

If the M’s pick up Sheets and he’s still got the velocity and movement it will be hard to argue that the M’s don’t have the best rotation in baseball (Boston close though). Hernandez, Lee, Sheets, Rowland-Smith and Snell… woweee.

To the person who asked if the M’s can eat innings after Hernandez and Lee, Rowland-Smith is expected to have the stuff to be an innings eater. He has the make-up of Washburn with a potentially higher upside.

bjsguess
5 years 7 months ago

Maybe we are talking about a different pitcher.

Ben Sheets – the guy in this rumor – missed all of 2009. Prior to that he averaged 23 starts per season (topping out with 31 in 2008 – which precipitated his injury). From 2005 to 2009 he has had 2 seasons with an ERA in the low 3’s. The other seasons he posted an ERA in the high 3’s. That’s playing in the NL Central and before a major surgery. IF Ben Sheets is healthy, and IF he didn’t suffer major regression due to the surgery, and IF he can be signed for a relative bargain ($5m or so), then the guy is a huge asset. However, if any one of those IF’s swing the other way then he could be a major disappointment.

As for the other Mariner starters …

Rowland-Smith seems like a decent enough pitcher. His problem is that he has never gone beyond 125 innings in any season (including his time in the minors). The conversion from reliever to starter can be challenging and unpredictable. To simply assume he will go 180-210 innings with a high 3’s ERA is extremely optimistic. And Snell … the guy has an ERA over 5 for the past years. I count one season (2007) where he was a solid pitcher. A few others where he was decent enough as a 5th starter, and a few more years where the guy was a disaster. You can’t count on Snell to be effective or productive. One season of 200+ innings on his resume does not equal a track record of success.

Sheets makes a lot of sense for most teams. However, to count on him, to rely on him to give you a solid year would be a mistake. You plan on him giving you 120-140 innings. Anything beyond that is a bonus. Talk of slotting him in as a #2/#3 starter is foolish, IMO.

universalguru
5 years 7 months ago

While I agree that it’s tough to predict anything regarding Rowland-Smith, I jsut don’t agree with your sheets explanation. Sheets health is an issue, but a heavy incentive-laden deal would make this almost a non-issue, especially with a one year offer. The fact is he would be a medium-risk, high-reward deal… unless the Cubs or someone else offers like $8 million guaranteed, in which the M’s better stay far, far away. Sheets would be in a great environment is Seattle, with our spacious ballpark and elite defense. May not get a ton of run support, but it will still be better than last year for sure.

studio179
5 years 7 months ago

“unless the Cubs or someone else offers like $8 million guaranteed, in which the M’s better stay far, far away.”

The Cubs can’t offer Sheets 8MM guaranteed. They simply do not have it in their budget. If he gets anything close to that, it will not be from the Cubs.

Fangaffes
5 years 7 months ago

Last I heard the Padres had some money to spend. I wonder if Jed Hoyer would take a chance on Sheets. He could put up some nice numbers in that ballpark pitching against the NL west.

Muggi
5 years 7 months ago

Heh well the Phils always said the Lee trade wasn’t about money, who knows, maybe they slip in and grab Sheets!

Halladay-Hamels-Sheets…with the innings-eater (and perennially underrated) Blanton behind them, and Happ throwing as a #5. That’s a pretty damn good rotation!

Never happen though.

jrollpatrol08
5 years 7 months ago

ehhh i dont know…i heard the phils possibly connected to sheets/wang…if i had my choice id rather take wang…2 time 19game winner in the AL east is no easy task..hes only been in the league 5 seasons, he’s got plenty of time to recover from his surgery

jrollpatrol08
5 years 7 months ago

ehhh i dont know…i heard the phils possibly connected to sheets/wang…if i had my choice id rather take wang…2 time 19game winner in the AL east is no easy task..hes only been in the league 5 seasons, he’s got plenty of time to recover from his surgery

5 years 7 months ago

i like sheets when healthy and i would like to see him in a Phillie uniform hes definately not getting 12 mil i mean Halladay- Hamels(the good one) -Sheets(when healthy)- Blanton- Happ= sexy rotation, plus the philz have already talked to Sheets’ agent also wang’s to but rubens surprised me before…….i wanna see it

withpower
5 years 7 months ago

Ben Sheets has the potential to be the best pitcher in the majors in a given season. Not sure why any posters would think he would have trouble in the American League, unless he wasn’t healthy.

I mean.. it is a VERY, VERY short list of pitchers who are better than Ben Sheets if he’s healthy. Haven’t most of his injuries before the elbow deal that ended his spectacular 2008 been like blisters and groin pulls?

Matthew Todd Strickler
5 years 7 months ago

Elbow problem, blisters…groin pulls…Sounds to me like he’s got a pretty serious masturbation habit. Get that under control and he could save himself for pitching again.

tr2008
5 years 7 months ago

wow really? best in baseball?? Based on what???

withpower
5 years 7 months ago

Based on his previous body of work……….?

In any given year, yes. Please re-read my post. I did not say he is the best pitcher in baseball. I said he has the potential to be the best pitcher in baseball in any given season.. you know, like 2004 when he led the league with an 8.25 K/BB ratio, threw 234 innings, struck out 264 guys, and only gave up 201 hits and 32 BB for a WHIP of 0.983. A WHIP under 1.00. That is SICK. He averaged 10 K/9. His ERA+ was 162 for crying out loud!

At his best, who is better than Sheets? You’re talking Halladay, Santana, Lincecum, Sabathia, Lee, Greinke? Sheets in considered a notch below these guys because of his health, not his talent or his stuff.

I think to take issue with that fact that Ben Sheets could have a single season in which he performs better than the guys I just listed is a bit silly. His 2004 and 2008 seasons already prove he can. It doesn’t mean he’s going to do it. It doesn’t mean he’s actually more valuable to your team than the other guys. It just means that in any given year, the guy could win the Cy Young award and make it definitive.

withpower
5 years 7 months ago

Based on his previous body of work……….?

In any given year, yes. Please re-read my post. I did not say he is the best pitcher in baseball. I said he has the potential to be the best pitcher in baseball in any given season.. you know, like 2004 when he led the league with an 8.25 K/BB ratio, threw 234 innings, struck out 264 guys, and only gave up 201 hits and 32 BB for a WHIP of 0.983. A WHIP under 1.00. That is SICK. He averaged 10 K/9. His ERA+ was 162 for crying out loud!

At his best, who is better than Sheets? You’re talking Halladay, Santana, Lincecum, Sabathia, Lee, Greinke? Sheets in considered a notch below these guys because of his health, not his talent or his stuff.

I think to take issue with that fact that Ben Sheets could have a single season in which he performs better than the guys I just listed is a bit silly. His 2004 and 2008 seasons already prove he can. It doesn’t mean he’s going to do it. It doesn’t mean he’s actually more valuable to your team than the other guys. It just means that in any given year, the guy could win the Cy Young award and make it definitive.

Zackkkk23
5 years 7 months ago

I know this guy name ZACK GREINKE who is on top of that list!!!!

connorburke
5 years 7 months ago

?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/

markjsunz
5 years 7 months ago

The only fair contract for Sheets would be maybe a base of 1 to 2 million base plus incentives which could jump it up for him if he preforms. With his medical history he is a big risk, and if he can be productive a full season he would bre rewarded

withpower
5 years 7 months ago

Eh.. I’m 100% positive he will get a much better deal than a $1-2MM base. And he will deserve it.

brewersfan
5 years 7 months ago

Agreed. He will argue (correctly) that he is a better pitcher than Brad Penny, and look at the bad paper the Cards gave him. However, he will have to knock a couple mil off of that because of the injury worries.

withpower
5 years 7 months ago

How disgusting was that Penny contract, by the way?

For an organization that portrays itself as upper-end-mid-market (even though I’m convinced the Cardinals could easily afford to spend like BOS, LAD, and NYM), that’s a lot of change to give a guy who really isn’t any good.

lakersdodgersyankees4life
5 years 7 months ago

you know the Dodger’s payroll right now is under 100M, right? They no longer spend like Bos, NYY, NYM, etc, but still win… damn McCourt.Oh, the Penny deal looks really dumb, IMO. I dont see him going back to his Dodger/Marlin years.. too lazy

withpower
5 years 7 months ago

No, I didn’t know it was under $100MM right now actually. I was kind of going off recent history and figured it was somewhat north of $100MM ($120MM? i took a stab.. prolly should have checked Cot’s). I didn’t use any hard and fast numbers, but I just was sort of implying that next tier of spending, below the Yankees.

5 years 7 months ago

It was around $120m for 2008. Dropped considerably in 2009 (to about $100m). Looks to drop again, or stay about the same, depending on arbitration cases and if the Dodgers sign a starter and/or 2B.

withpower
5 years 7 months ago

No, I didn’t know it was under $100MM right now actually. I was kind of going off recent history and figured it was somewhat north of $100MM ($120MM? i took a stab.. prolly should have checked Cot’s). I didn’t use any hard and fast numbers, but I just was sort of implying that next tier of spending, below the Yankees.

markjsunz
5 years 7 months ago

Prehaps, or he may be on the DL in may and some team is stuck with him. I am not saying he does not deserve a good payday, but coming off of an injury that kept you out for a year, plus a history of injuries? Let him win 15 games, have a3.25 era and pitch 200 innings then with those incentives he can earn his 10 million dollar contract. Signing pitchers with injury historys are a suckers bet.

withpower
5 years 7 months ago

Yeah, but you’ve got to examine his injury history a little better.

He missed time in 2005 at the beginning of the season because of inner ear infections. 2006 it was shoulder tendinitis. He missed some time but pitched great when he came back. In 2007 I’m pretty sure his injuries involved his groin, hamstring, and blisters.

I’m not saying he doesn’t have a injury history, but he’s really only had two arm injuries and only one of them (2008 flexor tendon injury) was structural.

He deserves a higher base than $1-2MM and if he can make 25+ starts he is going to make the GM that places that “sucker’s bet” look like a genius card counting hustler.

markjsunz
5 years 7 months ago

here are a few names you can consider, Darren Dreifort, Mike Hampton these two guys both had arm problems, they both got signed. They both ended up in the scrap heap. I am sure with the need for pitching he will get his payday and he should. My point is the first year back off of an injury an incentive based contract is the way to go. If a team gives him 10 million dollars this year and he goes down the first month they are stuck. Randy Wolf just got a nice payday but he had to prove he was healthy the last few years. To me giving big money to a guy who has an injury that keeps him out the whole season is a suckers bet. I just read a very interseting book called Moneyball you can take from it what you want but it is a brand new way to approach the players a team signs, a great read.

withpower
5 years 7 months ago

Moneyball isn’t a new book. And I really don’t think Darren Dreifort or Mike Hampton apply here. Besides, didn’t both of those guys get signed to massive deals BEFORE their serious injury problems started up?

You seem to be under the impression that I’m advocating giving Ben Sheets a multi-year deal. All I pointed out to you is that a base of $1-2MM is not going to cut it, and it won’t. He SHOULD have an incentive heavy contract. That incentive heavy contract SHOULD be for one year (maybe a team or vesting option).

But the guys you are comparing him to.. Dreifort, Hampton, Wolf.. these guys aren’t in Ben Sheet’s league when it comes to stuff.

The list of pitcher’s with better stuff than Ben Sheets is like.. Santana, Sabathia, Lester, Lincecum, F. Hernandez, Halladay, Lee. Guys like that, okay? Ben Sheets on a strict talent level, he’s in the group of guys like Oswalt, Cain, etc. The guy has ace talent. He has had several ace seasons (including his most recently completed one in 2008).

Roy Halladay, Cliff Lee, Johan Santana.. all of these guys have had injury problems. Pitching baseballs causes injury. It is an unnatural motion that the body is not really designed to due. Even Tim Lincecum, with his terrific motion and mechanics had some shoulder issues the past season.

If nobody signed ptichers that had been hurt, you would be watching Indy League players on television by June.

markjsunz
5 years 7 months ago

Both Hampton and Dreifort had a history of arm troubles. The dodgers just gave another guy last year Orlando Hudson a contract that was laced with incentives. He had a 2 million dollar base and he ended up earning close to 8 million dollars I know Hudson is a position player but Any player who sits out a year should be suspect.There is nothing wrong to expect a guy to maybe earn his money! Sheets career line is 86 wins and 83 losses 3.72 ERA and 31 years old this is the guy who has better stuff then Wolf? Wolf career stats 101 wins 85 losses 4.13 era 33 years old. Wolfs era is a little higher but his win to loss ratio more then makes up for it. Money ball is an older book, the great thing about it though is that it it challenges you to look at baseball and baseball players differently. What is someone really worth? Who is undervalued and who is overvalued? Of course it is not an exact science but it does give teams Another way of looking at what a guy is really worth.

withpower
5 years 7 months ago

Wins and losses? They don’t tell us anything. AT ALL.

Ben Sheets has a career FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching) of 3.56
Randy Wolf has a career FIP of 4.28

In 11 seasons, Randy Wolf has 1682.1 IP while giving up 772 earned runs with a 1.32 WHIP. His BABIP was .294, right around the major league average (.290).

In 8 seasons, Ben Sheets has 1428 IP while giving up 591 earned runs with a 1.2 WHIP. His BABIP was .306, slightly higher than average (indicating a modest amount of bad luck).

Wolf – 2.29 K/BB, 1.13 HR/9
Sheets – 3.85 K/BB, 0.96 HR/9

So we now know, after just a tiny browsing of relevant information, that even though he has 3 seasons more experience than Sheets, Randy Wolf has only pitched 254 more innings in his career. He has 4 200 IP seasons, as opposed to Sheet’s 3 (Ben Sheets pitched 198 innings in 2008, just two innings short of a 4th 200 IP season).

In those 254 more innings, Wolf has managed to walk 292 (!) more batters than Ben Sheets while only striking out 181 more batters. He has given up 212 HR to Ben Sheet’s 160. Randy Wolf has also hit 42 more batters in his career than Ben Sheets, 73 to Sheet’s 31.

From this information we can see plainly that Ben Sheets has had fewer injury problems than Randy Wolf (that caused games to be missed, anyway), strikes out more batters than Randy Wolf, walks fewer batters than Randy Wolf, gives up fewer home runs than Randy Wolf, and is generally just a better pitcher.

I agree. It is TERRIFIC to really look at player values. I think you would just have a much better time understanding player values if you were actually looking at relevant information to reach your conclusions, markjsunz.

markjsunz
5 years 7 months ago

I would rather take the 17 more wins then losses , compared to Sheets 3 more wins then losses . The stats you are spewing have no value, they did not lead to wins. Any Stat other then a win loss record is pointless.

withpower
5 years 7 months ago

markjsunz,

So… Randy Wolf and Ben Sheets both make a start on the same day. They both go 7 innings. They both give up 3 earned runs. They both leave the game with a lead. Randy Wolf’s bullpen gets the save. Ben Sheet’s bullpen blows it. Randy Wolf gets a win. Ben Sheets gets a no decision.

Randy Wolf and Ben Sheets both make a start on the same day. The teams they are playing against have identical win-loss records and similar offensive rate statistics. They both go 7 innings. They both give up 3 earned runs. Randy Wolf’s team scores 5 runs. Ben Sheet’s team scores 2. Randy Wolf gets a win. Ben Sheets gets a loss.

You are completely mixed up. Wins and losses are not relevant to a pitcher’s talent level because there are so many ways the results can be altered that have nothing to do with the way the pitcher actually pitched.

The statistics I provided for you (spewing? you are getting increasingly hostile in your responses, and I’m not going to accept it.. especially when you are wrong) pull out those variables and get down to brass tacks — how many batters does he strikeout for every batter he walks, what does his earned run situation look like after you account for poor defensive players behind the pitcher, what are the pitcher’s home run rate stats? To say these stats have no value.. it’s shocking to hear someone say this. Instead of worrying about whether you are losing an argument on the internet, markjsunz, you should use this opportunity to examine the way you look at baseball and the factors that go into a specific player’s contribution and expected contributions going forward.

From 2001-2006, the Milwaukee Brewers never scored more than 740 runs and never finished higher than 3rd place (and they only finished 3rd once). From 2001-2006 the Philadelphia Phillies never finished lower than 3rd place with only one season of a below .500 record (2002 when they went 80-81).

To continue to suggest that wins and losses have anything to do with true talent level, or to continue to suggest that Randy Wolf is a better pitcher than Ben Sheets.. I don’t know whether that would be sad, or comical.

lakersdodgersyankees4life
5 years 7 months ago

Withpower, you are a 100% correct. Don’t try arguing with Mark, he believes that Matt Kemp is destined to become the Yankees CF in a few years… just because they are the Yanks

markjsunz
5 years 7 months ago

You said”I am not going to accept it …Especially when you are wrong” You might as well hold your breath until you get your way junior. This is an internet website of rumors, and peoples opinions, it has nothing to do with real life. If it is so important to be right then I am happy to concede the point to you.

vtadave
5 years 7 months ago

Hampton had four consecutive 200+ innings seasons prior to signing that mammoth deal with the Rockies. Try again.