Cliff Lee Rumors: Wednesday

9:25pm: An AL GM told ESPN.com's Buster Olney that he believes the Twins could acquire Lee with a package built around prospect Wilson Ramos. Rival GMs believe the Rangers may be better off holding onto their prospects than acquiring Lee.

4:15pm: The Mariners have not started making counter offers for Lee, according to ESPN.com's Buster Olney. Rival executives remind Olney that the Mariners may want to deal soon, since an injury would deflate Lee's trade value (all Twitter links)

3:37pm: The Mets, Yankees, Rangers and Phillies appeared to be the only teams scouting Lee last night, according to Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports. The Twins and Dodgers were among the interested teams that did not attend, but it is early and Lee is a known commodity, so the lack of scouts hardly means there's a lack of interest.

10:11am: The Mariners will require a blue-chip prospect in a Cliff Lee trade, reports Joel Sherman of the New York Post, even though the last two Lee trades may not have included one.  Sherman suggests the Mets want Lee badly, while the Yankees would just like the Ms to "keep them posted."

Sherman explains that the Mariners like, but don't love, Mets pitching prospect Jenrry Mejia.  He feels that a Mets trade would have to be built around Mejia or Wilmer Flores.  The Mets are willing to trade Flores in a Lee deal, reports Matthew Cerrone of MetsBlog.  They're reluctant to part with other top prospects.  The Mets would like to trade for a starting pitcher as soon as possible, but Cerrone says the Mariners prefer to wait until after the All-Star break to trade Lee.

From the Yankees side, Sherman recommends they make Jesus Montero available.  They've done so before when Lee and Roy Halladay were on the trade market.  Sherman also notes that the Mariners like Yankees Double A second baseman David Adams.  Baseball America ranked Adams 22nd among Yankees prospects heading into the season, and he sports a .309/.393/.507 line at Trenton.  Should the Yanks prefer to pursue Lee as a free agent, Bill Madden of the New York Daily News learned that old friend C.C. Sabathia would be happy to help recruit.

In a longer blog post, Sherman elaborates on what Lee would mean for the Mets, what the Mariners will require, and how prospects are overvalued these days.


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239 Comments on "Cliff Lee Rumors: Wednesday"


5 years 2 months ago

Please mets trade meija+a few other guys!!! Cliff Lee is a sure thing. Meija is not. Plus even if they can’t extend Lee in the offseason, they get two draft picks if he goes somewhere else with which they can replace meija. This is a perfect scenario for the mets. Lee would do really well in Citi Field and a 1-2-3 of Lee, Pelfrey and Santana sounds pretty darn good. If they get Lee I believe they win the division. It will also be fun to see a Lee vs Halladay matchup!

RADIO_ROB
5 years 2 months ago

trade some of our farm system gems, with bright futures, for a guy who will make 10 to 15 starts & bolt for the Bronx? NO WAY!

Ken
5 years 2 months ago

As an M’s fan, I’d prefer that your Mets don’t trade for Lee. Seattle needs a couple of big-time bats more than it does pitching.

5 years 2 months ago

I don’t want the Mets to trade for Lee either, I like our prospects.

bigpelflikesike123
5 years 2 months ago

Do you like takahashi pitching every 5 days? For that matter do you like 5-5 johan santana pitching every 5 days? We do not have a legitimate ace right now and expecting ted lily or fausto carmona to do anything is just stupid. I think met fans are content on making the playoffs… well i want a world series and that’s exactly what lee will do make us big time world series contenders

iwishihadaclue
5 years 2 months ago

So then Lee leaves and how does our rotation look in 2011? When Meija could’ve been a part of 2011..you just traded him for a chance to get into ONE World Series. Lee leaves we’ll have 2 holes in the rotation..oh wait, we can always use Maine and Ollie again. That’s been working out great.

5 years 2 months ago

I’d rather not think of winning a World Series RIGHT NOW, however, if the Mets can trade F-Mart, Holt and someone not named Flores, Havens, Kirk, Mejia, Tejada, Niese, Parnell, or Familia it’ll be a good trade.

I’m happy with the opportunities Takahashi and Santana gives the team to win. I also DO NOT want Lilly or Carmona. I’d rather have Haren to be honest.

5 years 2 months ago

I’d rather not think of winning a World Series RIGHT NOW, however, if the Mets can trade F-Mart, Holt and someone not named Flores, Havens, Kirk, Mejia, Tejada, Niese, Parnell, or Familia it’ll be a good trade.

I’m happy with the opportunities Takahashi and Santana gives the team to win. I also DO NOT want Lilly or Carmona. I’d rather have Haren to be honest.

5 years 2 months ago

The mets prospects aren’t great if you could trade meija and a few lesser guys for lee I dont see how you dont do it…that would almost secure a playoff spot for the mets

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

And a fair shot at making a run with that 1-2.

5 years 2 months ago

But all the talk is not about the Mets lesser prospects…

5 years 2 months ago

But all the talk is not about the Mets lesser prospects…

Msforever
5 years 2 months ago

Agreed. I still remember the Santana trade. Those prospects were bad.

damnitsderek
5 years 2 months ago

Very liberal use of the word “prospect” there.

damnitsderek
5 years 2 months ago

Very liberal use of the word “prospect” there.

oabmarcus
5 years 2 months ago

Yes way, because your GM don’t think this way. For him, winning a World Series title generate more revenue than having a bunch of young players, it’s not about quantity it’s quality.

5 years 2 months ago

If they happen to lose him in the offseason they get two draft picks…

RedSoxHuskies94
5 years 2 months ago

It’s the same exact deal with Santana, remember when some people said not to trade Carlos Gomez? Look how the mets turned out, they got a 6 year deal done and now they are a much better team.

5 years 2 months ago

Exactly, prospects are never a sure thing but Cliff Lee is and even if you only have him for half a year…hes going to get you a bunch of really good starts. Although Santana is struggling this year, that trade has still worked out well for the mets.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 2 months ago

Jose Reyes, Mike Pelfrey and F-Mart were the players not to be included. Carlos Gomez was never a factor. Mets were not holding up that deal because of Carlos Gomez

Montero1220
5 years 2 months ago

Who do the Mariners think they are? They’re asking the Mets, Yankees, and Twins for they’re BEST prospects for 12 starts of Lee. Are you serious? The Mariners GM should be happy if he gets one A level guy for Lee. Trading away someone like Jesus Montero or Jenrry Meija for Lee would be a SIN! Montero is a hitting machine and projects to have Mike Piazza numbers while Meija figures to be an above average starter. Trading prospects like this would be cool only if a guarantee was made that Lee would sign an extension with his new team. Message to Mariners from the Yankees : HAND OVER LEE ALREADY!

baconslayer09
5 years 2 months ago

Do you not know how these kind of trades work?

It’s called trying to win-now. As a Yankees fan, you should understand that. When the other guy has something you want or need, you give him what he wants. What you’re trying to do is bully the guy into thinking you’re too good for him.

That doesn’t ever work, especially since this isn’t grade school. Prospects are prospects. A lot of Yankees fans and in the organization don’t even know if Montero can play the catcher position well enough defensively. If that’s the case, Montero is nothing but a DH or a 1B, which would greatly decrease his value.

Cliff Lee is a money pitcher, and has been since 2008. The guy is a tier1 pitcher. Remember when the Brewers traded for C.C. two years ago? They gave up probably their best prospect in LaPorta. Where the hell is he now? Hitting .230 for the Indians…

TOTALLY WORTHWHILE. Seriously, your arrogance is sickening. Take your 27 World Series championships anywhere you want, but the Mariners aren’t going to beg the Yankees to take Cliff Lee off their hands.

5 years 2 months ago

They are asking for that many prospects because if they lose him to free agency they get two pretty good picks in the draft…

dc21892
5 years 2 months ago

A window for discussing an extension would have to be part of the deal for a big market team, or else they won’t bother. Whoever gets this guy doesn’t want him as a rental, they want him for 6-7 years down the road also. A blue-chip prospect should be given up because this guy can flat out pitch. If teams were smart though, they would hold on to their prospects and not jump into a deal right away. The M’s will get desparate at some point.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Craziness. I would so much rather have Lee as a rental than have to sign him LT. Give me the picks to hopefully replenish most of what I lose in acquiring his ace ass. I’ll happily take my chances in the playoffs with Lee & Santana (for example).

5 years 2 months ago

What about the reports that the Phillies Assistant to GM Ruben Amaro was in the Bronx last night to watch Cliff Lee pitch????? I swear to god if the Mets get Cliff Lee Ruben will be run out of town faster than Eddie Jordan.

darkdonnie
5 years 2 months ago

I read that…I think they were probably scouting Aardsma considering Lidge sucks.

goodbyebaseball
5 years 2 months ago

The M’s get desperate? They have nothing to lose. He walks away at the end of the season and they get draft picks. Seems to me the desperation will be from the contending teams, those who believe an addition of Lee can get them to the top. He is a sure thing (Lee = WINS). Prospects…not so much.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Yup. If I’m the Mariners, I play hardball the whole way home. Here’s the list of demands. Call us when you’re ready or good luck with your season.

5 years 2 months ago

I hope he gets dealt, because the guy deserves to win a ring. Not saying the Mariners should give him away, but in a perfect world, Lee goes to a contender, wins them a championship, and the Mariners re-stock for 2011 and beyond. Win-win.

It would be unfortunate for him to finish 2010 with Seattle, without any hope for the playoffs. Although it’s certainly possible – look at Alfonso Soriano when he was with the Nationals. They apparently didn’t get offered more than the two draft picks were worth to them, so he didn’t get moved.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 2 months ago

I say take the 2 draft picks. As a matter of fact, in the last 10yrs, how many Mariners came thru the system and was drafted? People keep mentioning draft picks like their team will pull out a stud. I don’t follow the Mariners and i could be wrong wrong wrong but the last time you had a drafted player become something special was a long time ago. His name was Ken Griffey Jr. Who have you had since?

Morrow was a top prospect that you guys drafted and he never became what you guys expected. Then there was that OF you guys included in a trade to the Mets in the deal for Putz. You have 2 stars on your team and none were drafted. Still want those draft picks now?

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

I don’t follow the Mariners and i could be wrong wrong wrong but the last time you had a drafted player become something special was a long time ago. His name was Ken Griffey Jr. Who have you had since?

They had one other dude who turned out okay. I think his last name was Rodriguez or something. Can’t remember his first name.

iwishihadaclue
5 years 2 months ago

How long ago was tho? THE 90’S? lol..I purposely left him off to prove my point. You havent had a star caliber player drafted in over a decade. But you guys keep mentioning draft picks, like you gonna draft the next Albert Pujols

iwishihadaclue
5 years 2 months ago

How long ago was tho? THE 90’S? lol..I purposely left him off to prove my point. You havent had a star caliber player drafted in over a decade. But you guys keep mentioning draft picks, like you gonna draft the next Albert Pujols

Yankees420
5 years 2 months ago

Seriously, roids or not, how could he forget that they drafted A-Rod?

Yankees420
5 years 2 months ago

Seriously, roids or not, how could he forget that they drafted A-Rod?

iwishihadaclue
5 years 2 months ago

I didn’t..i wanted them to say it..just so it would prove my point. The last player they drafted with any relevance was in the 90’s. So draft picks mean squat

iwishihadaclue
5 years 2 months ago

I didn’t..i wanted them to say it..just so it would prove my point. The last player they drafted with any relevance was in the 90’s. So draft picks mean squat

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

QED

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

QED

Yankees420
5 years 2 months ago

That last sentence is just so horribly wrong, I don’t even know what to say….

Chipanese
5 years 2 months ago

The question should be for the other team; Do you want a world series ring, or not?

Msforever
5 years 2 months ago

Alex Rodriguez has had an ok career.

5 years 2 months ago

I would never trade Mejia or Flores for a rental of Lee. A controllable pitcher would be different.

5 years 2 months ago

It’s not just Lee. It’s also the two draft picks you net when you offer him arbitration and he signs elsewhere. 3-4 marginal wins from Lee, plus hopefully his postseason starts, plus the value of the two draft picks, is pretty valuable to a contender.

Look at it this way – if you give up Meija and Flores, you get two high draft picks to replace them, plus Lee. If you draft well, all you really lose is the years of development time for the draft picks to catch up to where Meija and Flores were.

5 years 2 months ago

Mejia and Flores are stars. I doubt those supplemental picks will be as good as they are.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Neither of those two are stars. Stop it.

5 years 2 months ago

Ok I went overboard with “stars” but Flores is 18. In the US he’d be graduating HS but he’s in high A with guys 2-3 years older than him and he’s raking and rarely strikes out. Guys like that don’t grow on trees. Mejia is projected to be a front of the rotation starter. Neither of which are worth a rental.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

You don’t need to convince me that they’re great prospects; they are. Great prospects indeed do not grow on trees. But they’re not nearly as rare as Cliff Lee’s.

Certainty is extremely valuable. That Flores is 18 for example suggests some good things, sure, but it also means there’s a lot of room, a lot of time before he’s valuable for his production rather than his potential production.

I’m not doubting him. It’s just the choice the Mets have to make. They are rolling the dice either way. What confidence can you have that when the time comes the Mets will be able to surround Mejia and Flores (presuming they flourish) with a good enough team to win championships? There are WAY more variables to account for. As a gambler, that’s not the better bet.

Lee is no guaranteed WS ticket. But his production is a virtual lock, and you know exactly what kind of team you’re adding him to. This is why teams almost always prefer certain commodities now to potential commodities later, even when the latter might be better overall commodities.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

You don’t need to convince me that they’re great prospects; they are. Great prospects indeed do not grow on trees. But they’re not nearly as rare as Cliff Lee’s.

Certainty is extremely valuable. That Flores is 18 for example suggests some good things, sure, but it also means there’s a lot of room, a lot of time before he’s valuable for his production rather than his potential production.

I’m not doubting him. It’s just the choice the Mets have to make. They are rolling the dice either way. What confidence can you have that when the time comes the Mets will be able to surround Mejia and Flores (presuming they flourish) with a good enough team to win championships? There are WAY more variables to account for. As a gambler, that’s not the better bet.

Lee is no guaranteed WS ticket. But his production is a virtual lock, and you know exactly what kind of team you’re adding him to. This is why teams almost always prefer certain commodities now to potential commodities later, even when the latter might be better overall commodities.

5 years 2 months ago

OK. So what’s an elite young shortstop prospect worth? Fortunately, we have a way to figure that out – what teams pay those prospects through the draft or as non-drafted free agents. If Flores was drafted as an elite HS shortstop, top 5 draft pick let’s say – what would he get? $5 mil?

Now he has a value. Balance that against the value of half a season of Lee ($7-10 mil), along with the draft picks you get after you offer him arb, and you see how Flores plus something is what you need.

I said it further up, but people are underrating how valuable Lee is, even in half a season. On the open market, he’d get far more than the $4.5 million he’s due in salary. Let’s say $12 million – half of Sabathia’s salary. You’re getting a $12 million player for $4.5 million. That’s a $7.5 million savings.

Yes, half a year of a player can be very valuable.

damnitsderek
5 years 2 months ago

You know who else raked as an 18 year old shortstop in A ball?

Wilson Betemit.

Just_MLB
5 years 2 months ago

you know who else was traded for and did NOT bring a WS ring?
Cliff Lee

Phillies – made it to the show…did not win it all
Mariner – traded for lee…and stunk up the house with him

Just_MLB
5 years 2 months ago

you know who else was traded for and did NOT bring a WS ring?
Cliff Lee

Phillies – made it to the show…did not win it all
Mariner – traded for lee…and stunk up the house with him

damnitsderek
5 years 2 months ago

You know who else raked as an 18 year old shortstop in A ball?

Wilson Betemit.

5 years 2 months ago

Ok I went overboard with “stars” but Flores is 18. In the US he’d be graduating HS but he’s in high A with guys 2-3 years older than him and he’s raking and rarely strikes out. Guys like that don’t grow on trees. Mejia is projected to be a front of the rotation starter. Neither of which are worth a rental.

Sampsonite168
5 years 2 months ago

As a Mets fan, after seeing the way the Mets drafted this year, I really don’t care too much about the picks.

yanksfanpaul
5 years 2 months ago

Yankees are going to be looking for veteran bench help and a reliever, not another starter. They’ll wait till Cliff Lee is a free agent and keep Montero (much like they did with CC – Hughes)

metsman
5 years 2 months ago

How about Wilmer Flores SS, Reese Havens 2B, Fransico Pena C, and Robert Carson LHP. fellow Met fans might think thats to much, but even though I don’t think Lee is the one way ticket to a ring that Seattle fan’s make him out to be, I think on our team he is the missing link. He would make the twins stronger, but we have a much more dynamic offense and Lee puts our rotation over the top. We don’t need Lee exactly but we need a good pitcher and I don’t see the point in getting anybody else when Takahashi and Dickey could very well end up with more wins than Lilly or Carmona, and the diamondbacks want even more than the Mariners for Dan Haren.

dc21892
5 years 2 months ago

Look over what you said.

5 years 2 months ago

I really see the Mets as the team that gets Lee.

I don’t see the Twins giving up prospects. They *love* their system and never want to give up players that are close to (or recently promoted to) the majors. Good fit with the Mariners, unfortunately for them.

The Mariners are going to want near-MLB ready talent in return. The way I see it, Flores is a little far away for them, since he’s ~2 years away from the majors. If I had to guess, I’d say they’d get Meija (could be in the rotation next year), Tejada (MLB-ready middle infielder, Jack Wilson can’t stay healthy), and someone else (probably another AA/AAA arm – LH relief type?). Fernando Martinez would be interesting, but Michael Saunders is playing pretty well and if he sticks in LF, you don’t have a spot for Martinez. Thole isn’t a sufficient improvement over in-house options to include.

Mets fans, what say ye? Is that a deal that works for both sides?

Belandsexo
5 years 2 months ago

Im just worried about Mejia’s shoulder. I think Flores, Tejada, and Havens is a good deal for us.

Tejada gives us the near ready ML player that Jack likes. The other two guys have good sticks that could be regulars in a few years.

damnitsderek
5 years 2 months ago

Three middle infielders? With Dustin Ackley in AA?

damnitsderek
5 years 2 months ago

Three middle infielders? With Dustin Ackley in AA?

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

This deal was brought up in a thread yesterday and makes sense to me. Mejia, Tejada, and a B prospect not named Martinez or Thole.

Not sure if the Mets would do it, but I think Seattle would be silly to turn it down.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

This deal was brought up in a thread yesterday and makes sense to me. Mejia, Tejada, and a B prospect not named Martinez or Thole.

Not sure if the Mets would do it, but I think Seattle would be silly to turn it down.

5 years 2 months ago

If you read the NY Post, you will know Joel Sherman is a complete idiot.

Ms will not get Flores for Lee. He is a rental. Flores is only 18 and is raking while he is the youngest in his league.

Fernando Martinez, Josh Thole, 2 pitching prospects are more than enough.

5 years 2 months ago

“He is a rental” is simplistic. You’re renting half a season of an elite SP for $4.5 million, way below market value. The difference between his performance level and his contract is substantial.

Yes, Flores is a good prospect. He’s also 18 and in high A ball. He could flame out. People have studied the value of prospects like him and figured out a value. Pretty sure it’s less than half a year of Lee.

dc21892
5 years 2 months ago

If the Red Sox wanted they could land Lee in a second before any of these teams trying to get him. So let’s not start with the Yankees being the “big boys.” The Sox are one game out and if they feel like Beckett is going to need time and Dice-K and Wake aren’t cutting it, they have more prospects with bright futures than any of these teams.

5 years 2 months ago

I wish the red sox never got lackey and traded for lee…Ima sox fan and I just really hate lackey.

dc21892
5 years 2 months ago

Sox fan here too. And I’d rather see Lee, but Lackey will come around.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

No need to hate him. He is a quality starter.

Hating his contract makes sense, though.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

No need to hate him. He is a quality starter.

Hating his contract makes sense, though.

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

The Sox really just paid him to be an innings eater and give them the top rotation in the league. 4.00 ERA and 200 innings? I’ll take it, plus he is good at keeping his team in the game and is a winner.

Yankees420
5 years 2 months ago

Lackey is being paid way too much for him to just be an innings eater, so I doubt that was Mr. Eptsein’s plan for him.

Yankees420
5 years 2 months ago

While I agree that the Red Sox have a better farm system than the Mets and Yankees, their system value has significantly decreased the last year and a half. Buch is no longer trade bait (in my opinion), Westmoreland’s injury makes him a huge wild card, Reddick and Kalish have never had world beater potential, Lars’ value has plummeted since the beginning of ’09, Bard is probably untouchable since Paplebon seems to already have one foot out the door, and as for Doubront, well I actually like the way that kid pitches, so we’ll see about him.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Yeah, it’s not a lot better anymore really. It’s mostly been made worse by success actually as Bard & Buch no longer count imo. Neither does Westmoreland. Kelly, Iglesias, and maybe Doubrount are the only sexy names around at this point.

They have lots and lots of what you might call prospective prospects – low A talent with good ceilings – in Rizzo, Pimentel, Fuentes, maybe Tejada and some of the new draftees. But in terms of exchange or trade value, those guys don’t count for much yet.

BentoBox
5 years 2 months ago

You do not consider Kalish sexy ? Gotta call JT to being sexy back. :)

Cyyoung
5 years 2 months ago

Way I see it Lee is going to be the Teixeira of pitchers. He will never sign an extension. Seattle wants Montero, if any starters get injured or start having consistent bad outings, Yanks make the move. As A Sox fan, who has seen Montero in Double AA, I’d be happy if this trade is made. Lee for a few months to Montero for the next 8 years would make me happy.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

If the Yankees dealt for Lee, they wouldn’t let him go anywhere. So you’re talking about instead of 8 years of Montero – knowing NYY – probably 18 years of Lee. 3 or 4 of which would suck for you.

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

I still don’t get why it is a forgone conclusion that the Yankees will sign Lee. I realize they have been the foremost buyers the past few year but how many long term deals and tens of millions of dollars guaranteed to guys who will be in their early to mid 30’s when the deal is up until they realize it isn’t the way to build a team? I think they will aggressively pursue Lee but I think someone else will get him. And if I were a Yankees fan I’d be happy with that too, better than having 3 pitchers locked up into their mid 30s for around 20mil each. Not to mention what you’ll have to pay Jeter, Arod, Teixeira, Cano after 2013, and Crawford if they get him (who I think they want more than Lee). That’s potentially 8 guys who will be making big money and maybe Hughes and Chamberlain depending on when they hit arbitration not to mention anyone else New York will /have/ to have over the next 3 years. Even the Yankees have a limit. Note: Mariano is left out because I don’t think he will be around at this time. I think he’d be happy with 2 more years.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

how many long term deals and tens of millions of dollars guaranteed to guys who will be in their early to mid 30’s when the deal is up until they realize it isn’t the way to build a team?

Eh? It’s been working pretty well. It’s not a good way to build a team iff you have a short budget.

That’s potentially 8 guys who will be making big money and maybe Hughes and Chamberlain depending on when they hit arbitration not to mention anyone else New York will /have/ to have over the next 3 years. Even the Yankees have a limit.

Probably. But I don’t think they’re very close to it. “He costs a lot” is not a valid reason for NY not to sign Lee. If he demands crazy years, that would be. But they could always just jack up the salary for shorter years.

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

Well why should Lee be looking for anything less than Burnett’s 5yr/82.5mil contract as a start? Lee is left-handed and is just plain better than Burnett. And both have the same agent I believe. Do the Yankees really want to deal out another contract like that? I made a post a month ago or so where I listed the ages of Yankees players in the last year of Burnetts contract and it wasn’t pretty.Edit: they do in fact have the same agent

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Well why should Lee be looking for anything less than Burnett’s 5yr/82.5mil contract as a start?

Actually he should be starting with Lackey’s deal, but yes.

Do the Yankees really want to deal out another contract like that?

Probably. Especially if they can talk him into 4 for more money. The guy is good. And the Yankees like good. Not to mention that a title or two will mean it’s more than paid off.

They really aren’t as concerned with total budget as it seems to most of us they should be. A mil does not mean to them what it does to you and I and 29 other franchises.

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

I know the money aspects and the Yankees lucrative TV deal and everything else that makes them a lot of moolah but there is still a cap as to what they want to be paying. And if they do get Crawford I say here is no way they get Lee.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

You could be right. But I kinda doubt it.

Yankees420
5 years 2 months ago

Lee will almost certainly be prioritized over Crawford, the Yankees have at minimum 1 rotation spot open next year, with the possibility of another one being open if Andy retires, whereas in the OF, there isn’t a whole lot of room for Crawford unless Gardner decides to drop off a cliff.

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

Well Crawford is a guy who the Yankees have wanted since forever I’m sure and if they don’t get him, I’m sure the Sox will be in on him.

Yankees420
5 years 2 months ago

Except they already have a player just like Crawford in Brett Gardner, I’m not saying Brett is as good as Carl, just that they have the same skill set, good defense, phenomenal speed and light power, there is no reason for the Yankees to pursue Crawford at the expense of solidifying the rotation.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

I think there’s a chance Crawford develops some pop in the next few years, particularly in Yankee stadium.

Having said that, I really like Gardner.

Yankees420
5 years 2 months ago

No doubt NYS would help Crawford’s HR totals, I just don’t think it will be worth it for the Yankees to give him a 5/80MM deal when Brett Gardner can do everything that makes Crawford valuable minus HR power, which Crawford doesn’t even have that much of (~15 if he played half his games in pinstripes).

I also really like Gardner, he plays all out all the time, and I remember last year when he visited a kid that had cancer and promised him/her (I can’t remember) that he’d hit a home run that day, and he got an inside the park HR, that was just awesome, and I’d like to see him stick in the OF. (provided that he can keep up his current level of production)

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

I know the money aspects and the Yankees lucrative TV deal and everything else that makes them a lot of moolah but there is still a cap as to what they want to be paying. And if they do get Crawford I say here is no way they get Lee.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Well why should Lee be looking for anything less than Burnett’s 5yr/82.5mil contract as a start?

Actually he should be starting with Lackey’s deal, but yes.

Do the Yankees really want to deal out another contract like that?

Probably. Especially if they can talk him into 4 for more money. The guy is good. And the Yankees like good. Not to mention that a title or two will mean it’s more than paid off.

They really aren’t as concerned with total budget as it seems to most of us they should be. A mil does not mean to them what it does to you and I and 29 other franchises.

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

Well why should Lee be looking for anything less than Burnett’s 5yr/82.5mil contract as a start? Lee is left-handed and is just plain better than Burnett. And both have the same agent I believe. Do the Yankees really want to deal out another contract like that? I made a post a month ago or so where I listed the ages of Yankees players in the last year of Burnetts contract and it wasn’t pretty.Edit: they do in fact have the same agent

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

how many long term deals and tens of millions of dollars guaranteed to guys who will be in their early to mid 30’s when the deal is up until they realize it isn’t the way to build a team?

Eh? It’s been working pretty well. It’s not a good way to build a team iff you have a short budget.

That’s potentially 8 guys who will be making big money and maybe Hughes and Chamberlain depending on when they hit arbitration not to mention anyone else New York will /have/ to have over the next 3 years. Even the Yankees have a limit.

Probably. But I don’t think they’re very close to it. “He costs a lot” is not a valid reason for NY not to sign Lee. If he demands crazy years, that would be. But they could always just jack up the salary for shorter years.

Dave_in_Spain
5 years 2 months ago

If you read the Joel Sherman article, it´s much less definate than Tim summarizes it as. It´s basically all Sherman´s suggestions, beliefs, wishes, and biases. There is nothing concrete at all in Sherman´s piece.

Tvators
5 years 2 months ago

I dont see the Red sox just stepping in and getting LEE, their system has taken a hit this yr, Westmoreland for obvious reasons, Casey Kelly they wont trade and he’s over hyped anyway, Lars Anderson has done nothing outside of 18 games at AA this yr, tazawa, Bowden, Kalish, reddick all down….what do they have close? if they did they wouldnt be using darnell MacDonald, Eric patterson, Bill hall to fill in….M’s supposedly want a catcher than they dont want Montero who is a DH/1b, minor leaguers have run wild on him, he’s not a C….. As a met fan, I feel they should go for it, determine who they can center deal around, Mejia or Flores and add a mid level guy or two if necessary …and do it, Lee is not signing an extension, draft picks at their price and risk ( most dont make it and also if signed by a top 15 pick team they get screwed)are not all they are cracked up to be, Mets hope they win & he enjoys NY and NL and mets win giving them a fighting chance against the Yanks checkbook.

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

How are Kalish and Lars down? Sure they struggled in AAA but that is expected after moving up a level from AA where they raked (albeit small sample size for Lars but it is a small sample size for Kalish in AAA where he has struggled his first 13 games). Sure they aren’t really ‘close’ but you named 4 guys in AAA already. And after the Sox set Bowden’s mechanics back to what they were before (they changed them) he has pitched better and he never had a high ceiling to begin with. And Casey Kelly is now overrated when he’s just in his first full season of pitching in AA and is still 20? Me smells bias.

Tvators
5 years 2 months ago

I like KAlish, think he could be a decent MLB OFer, to say Lars’s stock is not down can only be a redsox fan bias, I think kelly is a good prospect but Sox seem to think he’s untouchable, but he doesnt throw all that hard and may have trouble missing bats in MLB and being an true ACE, thus maybe a bit overrated in my opinion. ANyway not tryingto say Mets system is better, Sox have a ton of lower level, draftees that were considered hard signs w/ big upsides the few years, just saying dont think sox can step in and cherry oick whomeever they want esp. w/ Kelly off the table

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

I agree with most of that now except for the fact Lar’s stock has to be up since it was at about 0 last year. He already jumped on the Sox’s top prospects list because after seeing a guy who was abysmally bad in AA last year atleast show an 18 game improvement has to bump his stock up from nothing because he was a highly touted guy in the past. And I also think Kalish has more potential than you are giving him but that is probably my bias lol

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

I agree with most of that now except for the fact Lar’s stock has to be up since it was at about 0 last year. He already jumped on the Sox’s top prospects list because after seeing a guy who was abysmally bad in AA last year atleast show an 18 game improvement has to bump his stock up from nothing because he was a highly touted guy in the past. And I also think Kalish has more potential than you are giving him but that is probably my bias lol

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Butting-in here just because that’s a pretty negligent scouting report on Kelly. Sox weren’t forced to develop him as a starter; he projected as a solid regular SS. They chose the starter route because of his ceiling there, which is very high.

Ask Cliff Lee if FB velocity is a problem when you have plus movement. =P

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

Plus I think the scouting report was that he would take several more years to develop if they wanted to make him a SS and even then he wasn’t that special. Pitching was just the best route for him in both aspects.

Tvators
5 years 2 months ago

Not meant to be a slight against Kelly, just b/c I think his ceiling may be more solid #2 than an ace, I think mejia’s ceiling is an ace but he’s much less likely to reach that ceiling and could end up a dominant reliver, or flame out before becoming anything. I think Kelly, young already in AA, commands several pitches well, athletic, talented has an extremely bright future and Kalish being a solid MLB OFer is not a slight either and Im saying Lars stock is down from a few years ago and even from early this season when people were back on the band wagon, he’s def lost a couple of bandwagon jumpers since then….all in all my point being Sox couldnt just jump in and take Lee at anytime, esp considering now way they incl. Kelly.

BentoBox
5 years 2 months ago

Kelly is ranked #10 by KLaw’s latest mid-season ranking. He doesn’t have the ceiling of an ace (at least by what I have read) but his floor is high so there’s that.

Tvators
5 years 2 months ago

I like KAlish, think he could be a decent MLB OFer, to say Lars’s stock is not down can only be a redsox fan bias, I think kelly is a good prospect but Sox seem to think he’s untouchable, but he doesnt throw all that hard and may have trouble missing bats in MLB and being an true ACE, thus maybe a bit overrated in my opinion. ANyway not tryingto say Mets system is better, Sox have a ton of lower level, draftees that were considered hard signs w/ big upsides the few years, just saying dont think sox can step in and cherry oick whomeever they want esp. w/ Kelly off the table

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

How are Kalish and Lars down? Sure they struggled in AAA but that is expected after moving up a level from AA where they raked (albeit small sample size for Lars but it is a small sample size for Kalish in AAA where he has struggled his first 13 games). Sure they aren’t really ‘close’ but you named 4 guys in AAA already. And after the Sox set Bowden’s mechanics back to what they were before (they changed them) he has pitched better and he never had a high ceiling to begin with. And Casey Kelly is now overrated when he’s just in his first full season of pitching in AA and is still 20? Me smells bias.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Theo isn’t trading a significant portion of a farm he’s long coveted — that would be sold low right now anyway — for another starting pitcher. Even if he might in other seasons, not this one. The longterm plan had this built-in as an iffy year and that’s definitely what it is. He might be willing to shore up the pen or even make a splashy transaction if something long-term fits, but renting makes even less sense for him this year than it otherwise would.

Unlike the Mets and many others, the Red Sox have the budget and the development system to have a shot at the playoffs – and thus the WS – year after year. Accordingly, they have significantly less incentive to trade away pieces they’re developing for a short-term shot. Their future is more certain than most.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

Theo isn’t trading a significant portion of a farm he’s long coveted — that would be sold low right now anyway — for another starting pitcher. Even if he might in other seasons, not this one. The longterm plan had this built-in as an iffy year and that’s definitely what it is. He might be willing to shore up the pen or even make a splashy transaction if something long-term fits, but renting makes even less sense for him this year than it otherwise would.

Unlike the Mets and many others, the Red Sox have the budget and the development system to have a shot at the playoffs – and thus the WS – year after year. Accordingly, they have significantly less incentive to trade away pieces they’re developing for a short-term shot. Their future is more certain than most.

InvalidUserID
5 years 2 months ago

He’ll be a Yankee, sooner or later. It wouldn’t surprise me if they got him this year (who gets knocked out of the rotation though?) but I expect him in pinstripes next year when one of two things happen

1) Javy leaves via FA
2) Andy retires

If the Yankees win this year, say goodbye and thank you to Andy.

If A-Rod and Tex start hitting, a bat isn’t a HUGE need. Appreciated, sure…but not necessary.

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

I don’t see Andy turning down another 10mil if he had a good year this year. Even though he is pitching over his head he must be feeling good about himself and not many people go out like Mussina.

InvalidUserID
5 years 2 months ago

I think Andy makes the All-Star team this year and if he keeps pitching well and wins another ring, I think that is enough for him to walk away. He’s said he wants to spend time with his family but if he wants a shot at 250 or 300, maybe he’ll keep it going.As far as the Yankees, I don’t think they’ll mind having him back to anchor down the #4-5 spot moving forward at all.

I wish Mussina would have stayed another year and gotten his ring. The Yankees sure could have used him last year, especially in the post-season. But Moose is happy post-baseball, so good for him.

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

I don’t see Andy turning down another 10mil if he had a good year this year. Even though he is pitching over his head he must be feeling good about himself and not many people go out like Mussina.

ReverendBlack
5 years 2 months ago

I can’t say I want the Yankees to win a title this year, but it would sure be a great way for Andy to wrap things up. A brilliant season at this age and another ring. That’s going out on top.

5 years 2 months ago

Joel Sherman. Stop making suggestions. They are bad. Thank you. the Yankees made Montero available because, last year, both Lee and Halladay still had more than a year left on their contracts. That is not the case now. I know that wasn’t the case with CC and the Brewers, but, unlike the Brewers, the Yankees don’t need to overpay for a pitcher in order to make the playoffs. We just need some good veteran bats off the bench and another reliever. Our starting staff is just fine.

goodbyebaseball
5 years 2 months ago

Yeah, that was evident last night……..

5 years 2 months ago

Yes, do cite ONE instance where a pitcher going on, what, 10 days rest, which I think is a first for Hughes, having trouble locating his pitches. Spot on, my friend.

The only starter in trouble right now is Burnett.

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

well Pettite does have a xFIP near 4.00 and Vazquez still hasn’t showed me anything. I do think Hughes is the real deal though.

bj82
5 years 2 months ago

I have you check Vazquez last 6 starts?

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

Yes. One came against Baltimore another against HR or die Toronto and 4 came against the same NL teams he had a ERA under 3 against last year. Nothing that impressed me there. And his bad start during that stint came against the Twins.

Yankees420
5 years 2 months ago

I’m pretty sure that the Yankees paid Pettitte to have an ERA near 4 and eat lots of innings, the fact that his ERA is so pretty is just gravy.

jwredsox
5 years 2 months ago

I don’t mean he won’t be worth the money I just mean he is probably going to regress obviously

bj82
5 years 2 months ago

I bet Hughes makes the AS game?

goodbyebaseball
5 years 2 months ago

Yeah, that was evident last night……..

5 years 2 months ago

Joel Sherman. Stop making suggestions. They are bad. Thank you. the Yankees made Montero available because, last year, both Lee and Halladay still had more than a year left on their contracts. That is not the case now. I know that wasn’t the case with CC and the Brewers, but, unlike the Brewers, the Yankees don’t need to overpay for a pitcher in order to make the playoffs. We just need some good veteran bats off the bench and another reliever. Our starting staff is just fine.