Red Sox Rumors: Relievers, Beltre

Red Sox rumors from those covering the team…

44 Responses to Red Sox Rumors: Relievers, Beltre Leave a Reply

  1. iains 5 years ago

    Alex Athopoulos has an addiction. Jonesing for another Cuban shortstop

  2. Guest 5 years ago

    don’t think its all that easy to just get Iglesias

    • johnsilver 5 years ago

      Iglesias isn’t going anywhere for a 34YO middle reliever, not to mention, Iglesias is the Sox SS of the future, probably about the time Scutaro’s contract expires, if not even sooner. hang up all thoughts of getting him for any of that collection of relievers for this guy.. it ain’t happening. boston will go with what they have before moving him. Epstein is not known for making stupid moves. better target a GM named Minaya, hendry etc.. for prospects of this quality for Downs..

  3. Cyyoung 5 years ago

    Sox got to forget this stuff, teams are asking too much. The Sox should do what the Rays did 2 yrs ago, with Price. Try Dubront out of the bullpen. Doesn’t have to be a permanent thing, but a good start for him in the Majors.

  4. Potrzeba 5 years ago

    The red sox should look into trading for Sean Marshall of the cubs.

  5. TradeYouk 5 years ago

    It would be extremely short sighted for the Jays not to trade within their division to avoid an AL East team getting draft pick compensation. First off, According to the Elias Rankings to date here, Downs is one of the lowest rated type A free agents, meaning there are a lot of players that can be signed by a team in addition to Downs that would push the draft picks received to the second or third round. Second, it is extremely possible that the if the Sox or Yankees acquire him, they will re-sign him, meaning they get 0 draft picks.

    I also think Downs would be crazy to turn down Arbitration if the Yanks or Sox offer it to him. A middle reliever entering his age 35 season who carries a Type A designation will not get a ton of interest in a long term deal on the open market. Given his past success he is guaranteed to get a raise on the $4 million he made this year in arbitration, and a 1 year 5.5 to 6 million dollar deal is probably better than what he will get on the open market. Darren Oliver is a couple years older, but a decent comparision. He did not carry a draft pick penalty and he only got a 1 year 3.5 million dollar deal from Texas.

    For all these reasons, I think the chances the team that acquires Downs gets a first round pick to be extremely slim.

  6. dc21892 5 years ago

    I don’t see Iglesias for Downs as a realistic trade. AA has every reason to ask for a good prospect but the Sox are counting on this guy to be their SS of the future.

  7. TheodoreRoosevelt 5 years ago

    99% likely that this is just the Jays setting up early positioning, ie if people want to talk packages, then ‘B’ and ‘C’ prospects aren’t going to do it.

    • BaseballFanatic0707 5 years ago

      Then the Jays better hope he decides to decline arbitration come offseason and that the team that signs him doesn’t sign a player with Type A from a team with a worse record.

      • zeroes 5 years ago

        They’d still get a second round pick, plus the supplemental pick would be bumped up to the beginning of the supplemental round. I’d gladly take even the chance of acquiring high end talent over a couple middling prospects that you know wont be.

  8. johnsilver 5 years ago

    On the David Aardsma piece also above.. i liked it when he was a member of the Sox, just he was forced out because of a log jam when the BP was so deep way back in ’08 and John Farrell pretty much had worn a path between the dugout and the mound each and every time he was on the mound to calm him down. The guy would start to over throw that nasty splitter of his every time and Farrell would have to come out to get him to just throw normal for some reason before the trade for Williamson in ’08 to Seattle.

    He seems to have lost some velocity this year also in the few games have watched also, no longer throwing in the 96-97mph range that he did when he was with Boston, but was 92-94mph.

    Not sure would give up much for Aardsma either, he was just plain scary, though did like the guy for his potential and if could get him for a Reddick type prospect would be all for it.

  9. Not even close. Iglesias plays a premier position. Relief pitchers are a dime a dozen and rarely put together a string of exceptional seasons. I wouldn’t trade any top prospects for Downs, nevermind Iglesias. Downs is a FA after this year and he’s 35 years old. At best, he’s worth a B prospect or two.

  10. Guest 5 years ago

    The Jays aren’t getting a top prospect for Downs unless a team is really desperate. Anthopoulos likes Iglesias and Montero, he’ll strike out on both.

  11. rzepczynski 5 years ago

    of course 5 dominating seasons in a row and type A status dont mean anything right? … I agree he is not worth iglesias but downs plus (stewart?) could be able to net iglesias, but with escobar and hetch, there is no point getting iglesias as he is a weaker hitting escobar, and a less potential hetch…

  12. snowles 5 years ago

    That’s why Downs’ asking price is so high, because as you said they “rarely put together a string of exceptional seasons.” Downs is one of the few in MLB who have, does it from the left side, gets out lefties and righties, doesn’t cost a ton to re-sign and is only 34, not 35.

    A lefty who puts up ERA+ seasons of 207, 238, 141 and 164 this year is pretty valuable to a team with next to nothing from the left side in their bullpen and little to no market to get reinforcements.

  13. dizzle4 5 years ago

    Just pointing this out, not really arguing anything you’re saying – the reason Downs is such a valuable reliever is that he actually has put together a string of exceptional seasons. I still have no clue what that actually makes him worth, but just wanted to point it out.

  14. zeroes 5 years ago

    Umm.. Iglesias is a B prospect. Sorry, but what exactly are you expecting from him? He’s a good defensive shortstop with not a lot of power projected. If he can maintain a high average, he’ll be an above average everyday player, if not, he’s a bench player. I can’t see him being ranked an A by someone like Sickels this offseason.

    I don’t know what you consider a B prospect to be, but I’m guessing it’s not nearly as valuable as two high draft picks to the Jays.

  15. Exactly right. I count at least 8-10 middle relievers available every trade deadline. Iglesias is being talked about like he will be big game ready in another year or two. Boston can keep him locked up for 5-6 years at that point. Can’t blame the Jays for trying. Weaken the Bosox and strengthen their own position in the division.

  16. redsox4120 5 years ago

    okay well give you iglesias if Lind and Romero…

  17. 0bsessions 5 years ago

    So’s Downs for Iglesias straight up. Short of Mariano Rivera, no GM would give up a quality shortstop prospect for a reliever.

  18. 0bsessions 5 years ago

    I’d like to see when Downs got the ‘exceptional’ tag. He’s a very good reliever, but exceptional? That’s stretching it.

    The point stands that he’s a solid reliever, but he still only pitches about 70-80 innings a year. Unless you’re an elite closer, a reliever is not worth more than a B prospect. The fact he’s only under team control through season’s end shoots his value even further down. Whatever team gets Downs is going to get, at most, about 40 innings out of him. If AA wants better than a B prospect for Downs, he can enjoy the draft picks (Which he’s not even guaranteed a first rounder if a protected team snags him or someone like the Sox or Yankees signs him and another Type A).

  19. jwredsox 5 years ago

    He is one of the best defensive shortstops scouts have seen since Omar Vizquel and while is bat may leave something to be desired it has looked good and he appears to be a gap hitter who will have enough strength to be able to knock balls off the way. Plus he has good speed. The reason for the low ranking was that before the season people didn’t know how he would hit and he has held his own in his first season at AA.

  20. zeroes 5 years ago

    So his ceiling is Omar Vizquel and his floor is John McDonald. That’s definitely NOT an A prospect.

  21. johnsilver 5 years ago

    Try GG caliber 22 YO SS in his 1st 1/2 season in the US< at AA hitting .306 at AA and not even known for his bat. And YES.. Downs IS a middle reliever…

  22. jwredsox 5 years ago

    With how he has batted this year his floor is no longer John McDonald I’m pretty sure.

  23. ronny9 5 years ago

    If the sox get Omar Vizquel out of him than i’ll be happy. You do realize that the he had 13 seasons of about 2 WAR, 9 seasons of .275 or better AVG, 10 seasons of .340 or better OBP, 10 seasons of 80 or more runs scored, he stole 20 or more bases 7 times (including years with 43,42,37 and 35 steals). All while playing premier defense, and was a clubhouse leader (and still is).

    and i dont think that is his ceiling. but if it is; i will be happy.

  24. zeroes 5 years ago

    You’re kidding right. He’s done well for himself, but 147AB is pretty meaningless. He’s far from a sure thing with the bat. He’s hitting major league equivalent of .259/.276/.338 so far, so he’s not out of John McDonald territory yet. He’s also got a fairly high BABIP (.375), so it’s very possible we’ll see that average fall with more ABs. And without a high average, he offers very little offensively. Hasn’t shown anything special on the bases either (2 for 4 in SB attempts).

  25. zeroes 5 years ago

    And that’s not to say he’s not a decent prospect. But let’s try to keep the hype in check a little.

  26. ronny9 5 years ago

    No he’s a weaker hitting escobar but a much better defender according to scouts; and a more polished player as it is right now than Hetch… Don’t know where you came up with Hetch having more potential.. but i seriously doubt that as well.

    I saw Iglesias play twice at the beginning of this year; i’m not a scout, but i can tell you that there is nobody i have ever seen play that is as smooth and flawless defensively as Iglesias is. and he’s still so young and raw that he’s not even close to a completed project.

  27. MaineSox 5 years ago

    I agree there is a lot of hype over him, and his offense does remain a question, but a lot of the hype is from baseball people and GM’s so they obviously see something there. You don’t give someone you see as a B prospect a $6,000,000 sign on bonus, and his name has come up in every trade rumor the Sox have been tied to, so obviously other GM’s see something of value there too.

  28. zeroes 5 years ago

    Yes, there’s value and potential there. You’re right on all counts, except that an 8mil+ contract is peanuts compared to what an average free agent with his potential skill set makes. We’re he truly an A, he’d have gotten something closer to Chapman (30 mil); though he has his own question marks. The Sox have other pieces that could get a deal done, but Iglesias is not an unreasonable ask for Downs for a playoff run and the possibility of 2 high picks.

  29. 0bsessions 5 years ago

    I think you need to re-read my post. I specifically said ‘pickS.’ As in plural. What I said was not guaranteed was that one would be a first rounder. From some of your posts on here, I gather you’re a Jays fan. That said, I’d have to assume you’d be familiar with the way a team can get screwed with the Scutaro and Burnett situations, but let’s get a very plausible example:

    This offseason, Yanks sign Cliff Lee, Jason Werth and Scott Downs.

    All three are Type A, but Downs is the lowest rank, so his former team gets a third rounder. Not only that, but the Yanks are almost certainly going to be one of the last spots in the draft. You’re looking at a supplemental pick at around 40-50 and then a late third rounder. Not exactly a high return is it? Standing pat and waiting for the compensation picks isn’t exactly guaranteed to get them much.

    As to the second part: If you’re an MLB GM do you give up anything of high value for forty innings of a guy who’s not even closing games for you? Sure, maybe he’s worth more than that to the Jays, but no GM worth his weight is going to flip one of his ten best prospects for that. At that price, I take my chances with someone from the farm. A guy like Downs is going to pull in quantity over quality. He’s not going to snag you a top tier prospect, but he might snag you a pair of middle tier guys.

  30. zeroes 5 years ago

    Yeah, if you consider Iglesias to be a top prospect. But he isn’t. At least not yet. There’s a reason Montero was #5 on BA’s most recent top 50 list while Iglesias didn’t even make the list.

  31. jwredsox 5 years ago

    Actually his so called “floor” of John Mcdonald has only made $8,000,000 in his entire career. And if you knew about this you’d know that pitchers make more money than batters and since you rate Iglesias so low would you trade Hechivarria for Downs?

  32. MaineSox 5 years ago

    Yeah but we’re not talking about a free agent SS, he was 19 and they knew he had 2+ years in the minors before he was ready to make ANY impact on the big club, same with any 19 year old prospect whether his is an A prospect or a B prospect. That 8mil+ contract was a record for the Red Sox by the way.

  33. zeroes 5 years ago

    And that’s why it’s a reasonable floor comparison. What’s so hard to understand about that? If he reaches his ceiling he’s worth much more than 8 mil. He maxes out at his floor… a little less. And if I were in a pennant race, in need of bullpen help, and the cost of acquiring the best reliever on the market (a Type A FA), then yeah, I’d consider moving Hechavarria. Would I move a Casey Kelly, or a Kyle Drabek, or a Jesus Montero? No. Hechavarria and Iglesias have a ton of potential, both outstanding defenders…but they also have a pretty good chance being busts with the bat.

    And pitchers getting paid more than hitters is absurd. 16 of the top 25 contracts in baseball are to hitters.

  34. zeroes 5 years ago

    Huh? Yes, we are. He was a free agent shortstop just a few months ago. It’s completely relevant. Plus he was a FA with even more value than if he were a regular FA because he’s controllable for 6 years. If Casey Kelly, Manny Machado, Bryce Harper, Jesus Montero, James Taillon, Mike Trout are free agents, they get MUCH MUCH more than Iglesias does. Iglesias doesn’t get as much because he doesn’t have the same upside.

  35. Fangaffes 5 years ago

    … and that reason is that Iglesias hadn’t played any games yet when the list was made.

  36. zeroes 5 years ago

    Nope. That list was made about two weeks ago.
    link to

  37. zeroes 5 years ago

    As you should be. Omar Vizquel ain’t bad at all. Iglesias is a very promising young player, I’m not denying that. My objection was to the idea that he’s an “A”, blue-chip, can’t-miss prospect right now. He’s just not at that level yet.

  38. ronny9 5 years ago

    about the contracts; yes 16 of 25 top contracts are to hitters. But have you considered that each team has 5 starting pitchers and a closer that i would say qualify for “large contracts” (and even that is exagerating b/c we all know most 4 and 5 starters aren’t getting top dollar and all but a hand full of closers in baseball are overrated and over paid) whereas each team has 8 or 9 position players that could qualify.

    Therefore you have 1.5 times the chance (AT LEAST) of having a hitter that you want to pay large money, than having a pitcher in the same category.

    In you’re example you have 1.77 times the hitters than pitchers, which helps prove the point that you are trying to disprove.

  39. ronny9 5 years ago

    I think the guys point is that there are less pitchers who are in the elite category than there are hitters in the elite category. Therefore a top flight pitcher is valued more hightly than a top flight position player.

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