Phillies Giving Out Contract Years Like Candy

A swing through the Phillies page of Cot's Baseball Contracts illustrates an interesting approach by the team: they've freely given out extra contract years to many players when it did not appear necessary or prudent.  The examples:

  • Ryan Howard, already signed through 2011, was extended through 2016 in April of this year.
  • Jamie Moyer, a Type A free agent after a fine 2008 season, was not offered arbitration but instead given a two-year deal.
  • Cole Hamels, a Super Two player who was arbitration-eligible for the first time, signed a three-year, $20.5MM deal.  He's pitched well, but did the Phillies save significant money in giving up the chance to go year-to-year?  This was as player-friendly as pitcher extensions get. 
  • Placido Polanco, a Type A free agent, was not offered arbitration by the Tigers.  I took this to mean the Tigers felt Polanco would have no trade value on a one-year deal, so why did the Phillies sign him for three?
  • Joe Blanton, arbitration-eligible for 2010, signed a three-year deal in January buying out two free agent seasons at the market rate.  Was this some kind of payroll manipulation, since $6MM of Blanton's $7MM salary this year came in the form of a signing bonus?
  • Free agent reliever Danys Baez, coming off a middling season for the Orioles, got a two-year deal.  Similar pitchers signed one-year deals.
  • Free agent backup catcher Brian Schneider, coming off a terrible season, received two years.
  • Bench player Ross Gload, coming off an unimpressive campaign, surprisingly received two years.  He's hit well in 116 plate appearances, however.
  • Bench player Greg Dobbs, arbitration-eligible for the first time, received a two-year deal.  Why not go year-to-year with a guy like this?
  • The Phillies exercised the 2011 club option for shortstop Jimmy Rollins a year early.
  • The multiyear contracts don't end there, but it seems unfair to call the Phillies out for the rest.  The remaining deals either saved the team decent money, or were of a length necessary to lock up the player as a free agent.


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217 Comments on "Phillies Giving Out Contract Years Like Candy"


GeronimoJansen
5 years 13 days ago

Poisonous Halloween candy.

Paul Boyé
5 years 13 days ago

What is this in response to? I kind of figured that was pretty well-known by now that RAJ has been loose with his contract lengths, for better or for (probably) worse.

5 years 13 days ago

The Dobbs DFA made me think about it, and I just wanted to see exactly how extensive it was.

5 years 13 days ago

I think the Ibanez contract and Polanco contract have each had one too many years on them. But two of the more prominent deals stand out to me:

– Hamels was unhappy with the Phillies after 2007 when they opted to pay him $500k before his arbitration kicked in, so I view his deal as partly in response to that. Based on his performance, Hamels is out-pitching his contract and Fangraphs agrees (link to fangraphs.com).
– Howard was signed before there was an opportunity to see Fielder or Pujols sign deals, which depending on how their new deals fall, could change our opinions on Howard’s contract. Granted there was very little hometown discount, the Phillies essentially locked up the face of their franchise with this deal.

I think more surprising than contract length (standard operating procedure seems to be three-year deals) is the timing of these signings. Both Polanco and Ibanez signed early in the off-season signing periods, while Howard’s deal was finalized early in this season. At times when it would seem the Phillies should have more leverage, they are signing somewhat player-friendly deals in terms of both years, but more importantly, dollars.

alphabet_soup5
5 years 13 days ago

I don’t see any way Howard lives up to the contract.

jnolan33177
4 years 10 months ago

He lives up to it by knocking in 140 and cracking 40 per year avg.

5 years 13 days ago

the title is kind of offensive to the phillies. their moves have paid off, they are the best team in baseball, and they dont even have howard and utley.

the howard, polanco and hamels moves were fine..
the rollins move was puzzling, the baez/dobbs/schneider/blanton deals were questionable.

but the phillies remain the class of the NL and maybe second in the MLB.

scottandwtb
5 years 13 days ago

you’re joking, right?

5 years 13 days ago

haha yeah big, big joke.

5 years 13 days ago

lol thank god.

jnolan33177
4 years 10 months ago

Joking about what??? They are the class of the league. Theyre rewarding the fans for spending 8 million a game at the bank. Whats the Joke?? You can pick each teams payroll apart. Arod Made 33million, noones ripping him. They got polly for 5 mil!! 5 MIL!!!! Blantons deal was a joke, as was Moyers but as long as they keep winning divisions pennants and world series, they have the right to spend how they please

14 Rocks
5 years 13 days ago

The Phillies aren’t even the best team in the NL East!!

oleosmirf
5 years 13 days ago

yup and Omar Minaya deserves all the credit for getting the Mets to be the class of the NL East. so glad he is 100% coming back next season!!!!

East Coast Bias
5 years 13 days ago

Did you just totally discount the Braves? They’re leading the division, you know. Stop sipping on the haterade and come back to reality – both the Mets and the Phillies are chasing the Braves for the NL East division.

5 years 13 days ago

The Mets are chasing the Braves for the division? News to me.

East Coast Bias
5 years 13 days ago

Theoretically, yes. Whether they have a chance or not… that’s a different story.

5 years 13 days ago

Haha, touche.

jnolan33177
4 years 10 months ago

People are freakin Idiots that talk likethey know baseball. GM’s are drooling when they watch Phillies home games, and as long as they put contenders out there, THEYRE GONNA SELL OUT, AND AS LONG AS THEY SELL OUT, THEYRE GONNA PAY BIG, AND AS LONG AS THEY PAY BIG, THEYRE GONNA CONTEND

jnolan33177
4 years 10 months ago

And who is einstein??

bbxxj
5 years 13 days ago

Best in baseball but second in the NL East.

5 years 13 days ago

The phillies have been plagued with the injury bug. they lost rollins in the first week of the season, and then utley, followed by howard and victorino. (not to mention polanco for about 2 weeks)

the braves are good, no doubt about it but when you look at it, the phillies have the best talent.

the phillies are second in the NL East with a lineup that looked like this for a week

Gload
Valdez
Ibanez
Howard
Werth
Francisco
Ruiz
Castro
Pitcher

csg
5 years 13 days ago

Braves players on the DL this year – Jair, Medlen, Diaz, Prado, Chipper, and Medlen. Last two out for the year. Say what you wish, but the braves have been hit just as hard by the injury bug

$1529282
5 years 13 days ago

Heyward also saw DL time, don’t forget.

csg
5 years 13 days ago

sorry 2nd name shouldve been Heyward

Jair, Heyward, Diaz, Prado, Chipper, and Medlen

malcolmec
5 years 13 days ago

Diaz is a backup, Chipper Jones is past his prime, and Omar Infante’s surprising (but deserved) All-Star season means the Braves have no trouble covering for Prado and Chipper. The Braves haven’t even come close to the injuries the Phillies have had. Wilson Valdez has been starting almost every game for the Phillies this season. WILSON VALDEZ, I say.

csg
5 years 13 days ago

yeah, okay. None of those guys matter. Jair is a #2 starter, Medlen was our #3 starter, Chipper has a .924OPS since the break, Heyward is our best OF’r and Prado led the league in multi hit games. You’re saying the Braves injuries dont matter as much because their bench was stronger. We’ve just had better replacements, but to think the Braves injuries arent that bad is just comical.

philsgoldenage
5 years 12 days ago

prado was out for 10 days please… they only put him on the dl so they could grab a bench guy. The Phillies have had out at one point or another: ruiz, schneider (played with 2 AAA catchers for a period) Howard Utley Rollins Polanco Victorino, Moyer, Lidge, Madson, Blanton… please

Jair out hurt tho for sure, and Chipper out is very unfortunate and no doubt a blow. ESPN reported the Braves are trying to trade for D.Lee which should scare the nl east.

PhilsPhan914
5 years 11 days ago

You just named six players. Not to mention, Chipper just happened! So they had him for all this time they’ve been in first. Try losing Utley, Howard, Jimmy (twice), Polanco, Ruiz, Victorino, Madson, Lidge, Happ, Schneider, Durbin, Moyer (also for the season), Blanton, Romero, and Bastardo. Let’s see.. our two lefties in the pen, our closer, our back-up closer/8th inning guy, three starting pitchers, a dependable 7th inning reliever, did I miss anyone? OH YEAH! Six our our eight starters and our back up catcher! So let’s compare.. Jair = Moyer, Diaz = Schneider, Prado = Polanco (and I’m being pretty generous there), Medlen = Happ, Heyward = Victorino, I guess I’ll say Chipper = Jimmy since he brings the leadership and still a feared hitter in that line-up. So try losing five of your bullpen guys, another starter, your catcher (because Ruiz is just as good as McCann this year), and then, two of the most feared hitters in baseball. You’re still nine players short and two of those players are unmatchable by anyone on your team.

PhilsPhaninPhlorida
5 years 6 days ago

Phillies have had 15 players on the DL.. playing ONLY 9 games this Entire season with their opening day line-up..

And yet we still are just a series sweep away from taking back 1st place…
Phillies are the two time reigning NL Champions… Until they lose that title, they are the best team in the NL.

jnolan33177
4 years 10 months ago

Phillies injuries this year, Howard, Utley, Rollins, Lidge, Madson, Durbin, Rollins again, Polanco, Ruiz, Schneider, Happ, Polanco again, Blanton, Moyer, ………. 17 players on the dl, lost 600 games from injuries. Not even close, and the braves lost Chipper and Prado at the end of the season

Guest
5 years 13 days ago

Sorry, Mike, but the Bravos have actually lost more days to the DL than the Phillies. Not a valid excuse for them being in 2nd.

philsgoldenage
5 years 12 days ago

The reason the Phils are in 2nd isn’t because of injuries. The Braves have played very well and The Phil’s offense was missing for a chunk of the year, even when everyone was healhy. How many games left to play? Braves 43 Phils 42. Lots of Baseball.

alphabet_soup5
5 years 13 days ago

1 week =/= 162 games

5 years 13 days ago

Well.. mostly due to playing in a division w/ the Mets, Marlins, and Nats… Have you even seen a Braves-Phillies game even at Citizens Bank? The Braves run around their bases all day

5 years 12 days ago

for now

jnolan33177
4 years 10 months ago

Yeah??? According to who???

alxn
5 years 13 days ago

You’re missing the point of the article. Howard and Hamels were already under control for this year and Polanco could have been had for this year without giving him 2 more years. What they do this year is irrelevant.

$1529282
5 years 13 days ago

The Phillies aren’t even the class of their own division. Even with Howard and Utley, the Braves were ahead of them and in first place.

The Howard deal is already one of the worst contracts in baseball. You can’t judge Polanco’s deal yet. He was overpaid in years and dollars to switch positions. People were saying last year that the Ibanez deal was a great deal after one half, but look at him now. There’s more to a contract than just one good year.

The Baez, Dobbs, and Schneider moves were all terrible.

The Phillies are hardly a lock as the “second-best team in the Majors.”

malcolmec
5 years 13 days ago

Whatever. The Phillies have been notoriously cheap throughout most of their history. I really could care less if they’re overpaying now… at least they’re spending money on trying to win, unlike 60% of the teams in the MLB.

5 years 12 days ago

worst contracts in baseball?????…..i can name atleast 10 worse than howards…….a-roid, barry zito, vernon wells, carlos silva, gary matthews jr, and i can go on

5 years 12 days ago

plus mark texeira, and john lackey

alphabet_soup5
5 years 13 days ago

NYY, Boston, Tampa Bay are 3 teams that are definitely better in my opinion. Up there with the Phillies are Texas, Atlanta, San Diego also in my opinion. I don’t even have Philly making the postseason this year, Atl wins the East and San Fran grabs the wild card.

5 years 13 days ago

I guess the “Rays” and “Yankees” have the best record and yet aren’t they best? The Phillies aren’t even the best team in the NL East!!

4 years 10 months ago

So, you ready to start sucking?

Just_MLB
5 years 8 days ago

“and maybe second in the MLB.”

ummm…the rays…the yanks…the red-sox…the rangers…all say hi !

HerbertAnchovy
5 years 13 days ago

Good article. Looks interesting when you see them in one place.

ƃop sǝןƃƃoƃ pɐɹ
5 years 13 days ago

How do you not include Raul Ibanez in this?

5 years 13 days ago

yeah true.

the raul signing would have been excellent as a two-year, $20MM contract

scottandwtb
5 years 13 days ago

try again

5 years 13 days ago

what do you mean try again? we signed him to a 3 year deal as a 36 year old.

im saying that extra year wasnt neccesary

$1529282
5 years 13 days ago

“Try again” meant that two years and $20MM for a 36-year-old who was reputed as one of the worst defensive outfielders in the game is hardly a bargain.

Ibanez isn’t worth $10MM/season today, and he wasn’t when he signed that deal either.

logicx24
4 years 11 months ago

He had a year of good offensive production though last year.

5 years 13 days ago

Ibanez is a contract I did not like. However I do feel that it was necessary to go three years to get him specifically. So it’s slightly different from the point of the post. I mean, it’d be nice to get every player on a one-year deal.

5 years 13 days ago

Remember, Adam Dunn was signed to a 2 yr $20mm deal after the Ibanez deal.

philsgoldenage
5 years 12 days ago

The Phils would love for this to be the year Raul and Lidge came off the books along with moyer. That would free up something like 31mil? I would like to see the outfield of Brown Victorino and Werth, although it seems we can afford to let Werth go, who knows maybe even grab a compensation pick? The Phils have let some notable outfielders go starting with Abreu, Rowand, Bourne, Burrell, and seem to have a replacement. I think Ben Francisco is better that people think also.

I compare it to the temptation of signing Werth to a 4 yr contract… Great idea now, might become a weight to the budget in 3 years. I like having Ibanez in the lineup, and those bench guys in there too. Who knows, maybe a 1 yr contract wouldnt have worked.

philsgoldenage
5 years 12 days ago

Werth Victorino Brown would be nice but I’d be prepared for Brown Victorino Francisco

itslate
5 years 11 days ago

Then you should be prepared to not make the playoffs. Brown is in no way ready for every day play in the majors. A HR against a poor closer who was playing badly (as happened with the Giants last night) is in no way an indication of what he might do in the future. He’s made judgement mistakes in RF, his arm (or his aim) has not been good a couple of times, and his avg isn’t good. I just love the way everyone is “prepared to lose Werth” as if he has provided nothing to this team for 3 yrs. Let’s also not forget that he has Howard’s back. Ryan’s going to be receiving a whole different set of pitches if Werth goes. Don’t be cavaliere enough (or dumb enough) to wish him away. I have no idea, and neither does anyone else, how many yrs Werth wants, but it’s a perfect cinch any number of yrs will be better than Ibanez. Werth is a 31 yr old, 5-tool player.

philsgoldenage
5 years 9 days ago

the drop off in talent between Werth and Francisco isn’t as big I believe as most people think it is. Of course I don’t want to lose Werth, I wish we could find a way to keep him and have an O.F. of Werth Victorino Brown.

Brown will improve his fielding, quickly.
Werth is a 5 tool player and of course I’d love to keep him on the team.

I’m also talking about TWO years down the road, when Brown will be in his 2nd full season, hopefully.

If Werth leaves, then we have Brown Francisco Ibanez and Victorino to choose from to find a starting outfield.

itslate
5 years 7 days ago

I get it. I understand what you’re saying. But if the drop-off in talent btwn Werth & Francisco is negligible, then if I were Francisco I’d “make hay while the sun shines”, as they say. Go out, get a big ‘ol contract before Werth does. But the truth is, the difference is big; larger than most Phillies fans will admit. Most fans are prepping themselves to be happy w/losing Werth now in case the front office doesn’t keep him. That’s why most ppl are attempting to paint this as Werth being greedy, or not worth the money, or by saying we have other players to replace him. We just don’t have 1 other right-handed, 5-tool player who can comfortably back-up Ryan Howard & none on the backburner either. Any time I read the PR nonsense pitched by the FO about ‘no money’, I look at the Forbes article (4/10) listing the worth of all the MLB teams, I realize they’ve just sold out their 90th game in a row, & I remember that the majority owners of the Phillies are living on the Mainline & keeping their profit margins up while I live in a rented, 1-bedroom apt, and struggle at my job (like most Americans). Hey, no team stays the same forever & players get old. But do your best to keep the working team together, otherwise prep the fans for yrs of losing.

5 years 13 days ago

Taking candy from strangers is bad.

withpower
5 years 13 days ago

Anyone ever wonder if maybe they should have given the job to Mike Arbuckle instead?

bflaff
5 years 13 days ago

Ha ha. So true. Arbuckle’s done a brilliant job… wherever the heck he is now.

wayne_gomes
5 years 13 days ago

How were Blanton’s FA years market rate? Randy Wolf 3-30. Blanton’s 09 season was pretty comparable to Wolf’s (4.07 xFIP for Joe, 4.17 for Wold) and he had a far more durable track record. Piniero got similar to Blanton’s two FA years, but he also pretty much came out of nowhere

5 years 13 days ago

It was market rate given Pineiro I’d say. But even if you’re saying they trimmed a few million, which I can buy, Blanton is a guy I’d let the season play out with and then worry about.

wayne_gomes
5 years 13 days ago

They trimmed 2-3mm for 2010 (which they ended up possibly questionably spending on some of the other guys on that list, but that’s another story).

From there, paying him 2-17 for 2011 and 2012 for a team with really a 2012 championship window of late-prime stars is far from irresponsible IMO

5 years 13 days ago

Most of these deals will not burn you horribly on an individual level. It’s the combo of so many that I would worry about.

5 years 13 days ago

Great point, Tim. Todd Zolecki of MLB.com made an interesting point before the season started; if the Castro, Gload, and Schneider deals weren’t made, the Phillies would have had an extra $9mm or so left which they could have used to keep Lee at the time. A continuing trend of questionable fringe deals can be as detrimental to a team as one, large, bad deal.

dodgerdude99
4 years 11 months ago

Randy Wolf was the go to guy for the dodgers in 08-09, he came through huge when the Dodgers were going down-hill….Ted LIlly Needs to Come Back For the DOdgers (:

pcarney
5 years 13 days ago

not every contract has worked, but the philosophy has worked… 3 straight division titles, 2 straight NL championships and a World Series championship!

5 years 13 days ago

and we dont even have utley/howard right now.

withpower
5 years 13 days ago

And last but not least….

A loud mouth shortstop who got his words crammed right back down his throat courtesy of the 27 time World Champions.

Hope to see you guys again to give you another what-for.

FPN
5 years 13 days ago

blah. He was right about in his other “predictions”, so I’ll happily get Rollins’ back.

malcolmec
5 years 13 days ago

As opposed to the Yankees, whose shortstop is just about the only classy guy in the lineup. Alex Rodriguez seems to think hes above showing any respect to anyone, and Jorge Posada spent the entire 2009 World Series yelling at the umpires and Phillies’ players, usually for no apparent reason.

5 years 13 days ago

I guess this is a game where everyone is nice to each other like it’s a walk in the park? Baseball is a hard sport. Everyone does whatever it takes to even win a single game for their team. Look how classy Matsui and A-Rod looked in taking them down.
Rollins shouldn’t be making predictions when you only bat .100 in the World Series.

withpower
5 years 13 days ago

I’d imagine if Jorge Posada was in anyone’s ear, it was because they needed to be reminded who the hell they were talking to.

5 rings.

malcolmec
5 years 13 days ago

Oh give me a break. I never questioned Posada’s ability. He is obviously a great catcher and there’s a reason he’s won so many rings. But I posted in response to an ad hominum attack on Jimmy Rollins, so it is completely legitimate to point out that guys like Posada aren’t necessarily the greatest guys in the world themselves. Every time I see Posada on TV his damned mouth is open. The guy wont stop yelling. Granted I don’t know what he’s saying, but I can’t imagine it’s always positive. Rollins is a great teammate and is well respected by other players. He does occasionally say something stupid, but he’s not out there screaming insults like some maniac with roid rage every time he takes the field.

5 years 12 days ago

dont forget crybaby swisher

philsgoldenage
5 years 12 days ago

and the fact that they shouldn’t have beat the twins. Worse calls than the ones we’ve seen this year.

logicx24
4 years 11 months ago

Then they lose one of the games, and win the series. The Twins didn’t have it last year, barely making it in to the playoffs. Their pitching was bad, and their offense wasn’t that good, even with Joe Mauer’s fantastic season. Last year, the Yankees had 7 guys with 20+ homers and Jeter was close with 18. So yeah I agree, there were a lot of bad calls, but the Yankees would have beat them anyway.

dodgerdude99
4 years 11 months ago

He isnt a cry baby. Just A true success story

philsgoldenage
5 years 12 days ago

I wouldn’t mind beating the yanks this year with Halladay, Oswalt, and Hamels. Beyond CC who is scary in their rotation? Pettite maybe, Burnette is the type of signing this whole article is getting at anyways. Glad the Phils didn’t make that one.

5 years 13 days ago

How can you say the philosophy has worked? What affect would giving out extra, unnecessary years have on the team’s play in the current year? Absolutely none.

alphabet_soup5
5 years 13 days ago

We’re in the present buddy, 2010. 2008 and 2009 were nice for Philly though.

5 years 13 days ago

Amaro was channeling his inner Dombrosky

myname_989
5 years 13 days ago

I think it’s hard to say whether the Phillies philosophy of locking guys up is beneficial or not. It looks especially bad this year, because of all of the injuries that the team has had, but over the long run, contracts given out in the past have worked out well for them now, and contracts given out now may look well for them in the future. I don’t have a problem with the team giving out years. It’s giving out excessive money that irks me about Ruben Amaro.

That being said, the only contracts that really disappoint me are those of Joe Blanton and Danys Baez. Blanton is a career middle of the rotation / bottom of the rotation guy, who probably could have been non-tendered. (Obviously with all of the injuries the Phillies have had, it’s a good think they didn’t.) Blanton is a guy where you know what you’re going to get. He’s going to have an ERA right around 4, without walking many guys. He’s coming back into form as of late, with a lot of his troubles coming in the first inning. 8MM a year is actually about what he would have made in arbitration before he signed the dear, so it may be the next two years which really go to show if he was worth the deal.

Baez, on the other hand, was just a stupid signing. Giving a 33 year old reliever, who hasn’t had a good year since 2005, a multiyear deal at more than 2MM a year, was just dumb. People will do desperate things when desperate for bullpen help. Lol

The other deals don’t bother me. Ryan Howard is one of the best first baseman in baseball, Cole Hamels has returned to his ace-like form, and Polanco has been one of the best hitters in the National League this year. The Phillies are very weak at third base depth in the minors, so giving a good hitter like Polanco a three year deal makes sense to me. When you look at the guys on the bench the Phillies gave multiyear deals to, that makes sense to me as well. Greg Dobbs had a tremendous 2008, and no one saw such a decline coming. A one year deal may have made sense for Ross Gload, but at about 1MM a year, you are getting a guy who is a very consistent pinch hitter.

So the Phillies may have made a few deals that look bad in hindsight, but what team doesn’t? I like the fact that when the Phillies sign players, they commit to them, and I’m sure the players respect that as well.

5 years 13 days ago

Here’s the thing about some of these players – Hamels, Dobbs – you had them anyway. For many years.

FPN
5 years 13 days ago

Dobbs was questionable, but making Hamels happy is something I’m ok with. IIRC, that was just after his dominating ’08 playoff performance. Pay the man.

Moyer: I questioned the move, but (pre-injury) I had changed my mind and thought they did ok with that contract.

Baez: bad.

myname_989
5 years 13 days ago

That’s true. I overlooked that. Lol. I was just reading names off of the list you posted and thinking off the top of my head. Even with that being said, Hamels as a Super Two would have killed the Phillies. Buying out three of his arbitration years at 7MM a year is a pretty good save, no? If I’m not mistaken, he’ll still have a year of arbitration after the 2011 season. In my mind, going year to year with Hamels would have put the Phillies in a similar situation as to what the Red Sox are in with Papelbon. After a questionable year in 2009, and a seemingly “bounce-back” year in 2010, would the Phillies be willing to be a possible 10-11MM to Hamels through arbitration? Obviously, I’m exagerating the numbers there, but the fact of the matter is that paying Cole Hamels 7MM dollars a year was inevitable, but having him at a controlled rate makes much more sense to me, especially since as you said, they’d have controlled him anyway.

The way Dobbs has played though, I’d rather forget he was ever given a multiyear deal. Lol

malcolmec
5 years 13 days ago

True. But do you think players appreciate going to arbitration every year? Do you think that maybe Ryan Howard, who had been held down in the minors way too long as the Phillies gave a huge contract to Jim Thome, would appreciate the team paying only whatever they could get away with, even after he’d won the Rookie of the Year and MVP awards, not to mention anchoring a World Series lineup? Thinking only about what you can get away with is a great way to be a GM, if you’d like a position with the Pittsburgh Pirates. If you want to keep your best players, you have to give them a reason to want to play for your team. You guys have to understand that there’s more to contracts than just statistical player value calculations.

wayne_gomes
5 years 13 days ago

The Hamels criticism is crazy too. Even if he had TJ he would/should have not been non-tendered. They were in a bad spot with their arb leverage due to his Super 2 status and him coming off a season where he was the best pitcher on earth for a month

The cost certainty created by that deal created transparency and likely helped Ruben focus on some of the multiple terrific trade acquisitions he’s pulled off since mid 09

Victorino and Werth extensions were very good. How good does getting 2009 at 2.5mm and a FA year at 7.5mm (2010) look now? I also liked the Madson extension although he has missed some time with injuries

Howard, Moyer and Baez though I hated so flame away on those. Would have liked to see 2 years on Polanco as well, but again I think he was aggressive to lock him up so that he could focus fully on the Halladay deal (instead of waiting out the 3B market and possibly having some fallback guys get snatched up)

5 years 13 days ago

Unless you can find the right comps and tell me how much money they saved on Hamels, you can’t call the criticism crazy.

wayne_gomes
5 years 13 days ago

Tim in what circumstance over the last two seasons would they have NT’ed Hamels? So if he had blown out his arm, they have have likely saved a few million for each of the 09, 2010 and 2011 seasons as he rehabbed and returned. But on the flip side, if Lincecum had decided to go year to year, he would be crashing through the top side of the arb precedents for Super 2 eligible pitchers each seasonCole is not Timmy, but a sensible agent would have been able to use those historic new precedents each seasons to help enhance Cole’s bargaining position in arb year to year. As it is Timmy got 9mm for his 3rd year of service time in 2009 as part of his extension. He filed for 13mm though. RAJ has no assurances that Lincecum will settle, for all he knows he could win the 13mm as a Super Two and completely break open the arb system for Super 2 pitchersHamels got 4.35mm for his 3rd service time year. 6.65 for 4th, 9.5mm for 5thSome othersWang (Super 2): got 4mm in 2008 for his 3rd ST year. His progression helps your argument, but that award also likely sets the floor for Hamels 2009 arb awardNolasco (Super 2): 2.4mm for 3rd year of ST 2009Verlander (not Super 2): 3.675th for 4th in 2009Was it a hugely team friendly extension? NoWould they have helped themselves by ensuring he didn’t become a Super 2 in the previous years? Yes. TremendouslyBut given what the situation was after 08 with the specter of another Super 2 completely destroying all precedents in that same offseason, the logic from RAJ’s perspective is pretty clear

5 years 13 days ago

Assuming that each marginal WAR is worth $4.5, Hamels was 1.9 WAR in 2009, and is 3.3 WAR so far in 2010. That equates to 5.2 WAR x $4.5M = $23.4M in marginal value, and we still have the balance of 2010 and all of 2011 to be played.

Where is Brad Lidge on this list Tim? $34.5M and three years for a hot and cold closer? That’s one I’m sure Gillick and Amaro would like to have back right now.

dascual
5 years 13 days ago

WORSE GM in the league = RAJ.

He’s made a mess of everything Gillick built, truth be told I’m really surprised he get the free pass he does so much.

Gillick handed him the keys to a Benz and when RAJ came back he had traded it for a fiat.

FPN
5 years 13 days ago

“He’s made a mess of everything Gillick built…”

I’m a Gillick fan, and a RAJ skeptic, but when I read this kind of thing I think it is nuts. You need to expand on your statement for me to take it seriously.

world08champs
5 years 13 days ago

Omar Minaya tends to disagree.

world08champs
5 years 13 days ago

Agree.

dascual
5 years 13 days ago

Not sure how much more I need to expand, it all right there in front of you

world08champs
5 years 13 days ago

Omar Minaya tends to disagree.

5 years 13 days ago

Bill Bavasi tends to disagree and (even not being our GM now) is very intrigued by Oliver Perez, Luis Castillo, and Jeff Francouer and offers you our best prospects (Smoak, Pindea, Ackley) because “they aren’t in the majors now, so they can’t help out our team. Their wasting money that can be spent on great players like these guys”