Rosenthal’s Full Count: Beltre, Scioscia, Crawford, Lopez

Ken Rosenthal has his Saturday Full Count Video up over at FOX Sports. Let's check out the highlights:

  • The Red Sox would love to keep Adrian Beltre around, but at the right price. The alternative is still attractive: shift Kevin Youkilis to third base, find a first baseman for a season, and then pursue one of the big-name free agents such as Albert Pujols, Adrian Gonzalez, or Prince Fielder. My own speculation here, but the Red Sox could of course look to trade for Fielder this offseason and then extend him.
  • Angels manager Mike Scioscia's ten-year contract extension with the Angels that he signed in 2009 is worth a whopping $50MM. Rosenthal had the dollar amount confirmed by two different sources. Scioscia can opt out after 2015, and each of the last three seasons is worth $6MM. That's one pricey manager.
  • If Carlos Lee's move to first base becomes permanent, the Astros will have an opening in left field for Houston native Carl Crawford. As Rosenthal points out though, it's pretty hard to envision the Astros outbidding other suitors like the Angels and Red Sox.
  • The Cardinals felt it was so important to get Felipe Lopez out of the clubhouse, that they forfeited the chance to acquire a supplemental round pick for him and simply released the infielder. The Red Sox reaped the benefits of that decision when they signed him for around $50K.


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71 Comments on "Rosenthal’s Full Count: Beltre, Scioscia, Crawford, Lopez"


Sniderlover
4 years 11 months ago

There weren’t many games left. How bad could it hurt if they kept him around for like 10 more games? It’s not like they are making the playoffs and a chance to get a good pick in a strong draft isn’t something to pass on.

tttmikeb
4 years 11 months ago

Correct me if I’m wrong, but if the Cardinals were to acquire a supplemental pick for Lopez, several other things would have to happen. The Cards would have to offer him arbitration, he would have to reject it, and then would have to sign with another team. I don’t think any of those are likely, and the likelihood of all three happening is pretty much zero.

A) I don’t think the Cards would offer arbitration because they wouldn’t want to take the chance that he’d accept and be back with the team next year. B) I think he’d accept arbitration if it was offered. C) Even if he did reject it, who would sign him? He didn’t sign until late this past offseason, and even then it was only for $1 Million. So 29 teams decided he wasn’t worth $1 Million last year, and it’s not as if he had a great season to prove them wrong.

Plus, all of this is predicated on the assumption that he’d qualify as at least a Type B free agent. I’m not exactly sure how they figure all of that out, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if a guy coming off a $1 Million contract who hit .231 and played terrible defense would qualify.

tttmikeb
4 years 11 months ago

EDIT: Wouldn’t be at all surprised if he DIDN’T qualify.

tttmikeb
4 years 11 months ago

Correct me if I’m wrong, but if the Cardinals were to acquire a supplemental pick for Lopez, several other things would have to happen. The Cards would have to offer him arbitration, he would have to reject it, and then would have to sign with another team. I don’t think any of those are likely, and the likelihood of all three happening is pretty much zero.

A) I don’t think the Cards would offer arbitration because they wouldn’t want to take the chance that he’d accept and be back with the team next year. B) I think he’d accept arbitration if it was offered. C) Even if he did reject it, who would sign him? He didn’t sign until late this past offseason, and even then it was only for $1 Million. So 29 teams decided he wasn’t worth $1 Million last year, and it’s not as if he had a great season to prove them wrong.

Plus, all of this is predicated on the assumption that he’d qualify as at least a Type B free agent. I’m not exactly sure how they figure all of that out, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised if a guy coming off a $1 Million contract who hit .231 and played terrible defense would qualify.

4 years 11 months ago

Jesus. Fielder in that little league right field at Fenway would be kind of a scary thought for the rest of the AL East.

BoSoxSam
4 years 11 months ago

And Fielder playing first base will be scary to any Red Sox fan, after being spoiled with Youk’s gold glove defense for so long.

And if we’re considering the right field fence, A-Gon would be terrifying there as well, and he knows how to play defense too.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 11 months ago

I know this is a complete fantasy and could only happen in a video game… but imagine if the Sox traded for Fielder this offseason and were able to pick up Pujols next offseason. That offense would be sick.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 11 months ago

This may sound crazy, and I’ll explain it if I have to…But to keep the farm and save some money…Maybe the Sox should take a flyer on Derrek Lee. The worst that could happen if he doesn’t hit is shift Youk to 1B and put Lowrie at 3B.

ELPinchy
4 years 11 months ago

I see Lowrie as the immediate backup plan id Beltre is gone next season. I recall him looking better at 3rd than SS/2B anyway. One issue is that he his splits appear to be insanely skewed.

Lee would probably be a serviceable stopgap solution on a one year deal or maybe 2 depending on what happens with Vmart and Ortiz in the offseason.

Sniderlover
4 years 11 months ago

Considering Overbay hits well in Fenway, I think Boston may sign him. He will provide decent offense and great defense. They can also move Youk to 3rd.

4 years 11 months ago

ALBERT is not going ANYWHERE.

4 years 11 months ago

except he won’t be traded to the BoSox, or any other team. I strongly believe they’ll work out some kind of extension for him, whether its a one or two year deal, he’ll be in San Diego.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 11 months ago

Yeah, I also don’t have the energy to read “Reddick, Anderson, Kalish, Tazawa, and Kelly for Gonzalez” again every morning this off-season.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 11 months ago

Don’t worry, Tazawa is coming off of TJ surgery, no one will trade for him right now.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 11 months ago

Come on dawg you know what I mean.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 11 months ago

Dawg? Did we flash back to the 90s?

Yeah, I was just screwing with you. I know what you mean. But I can garuentee you’ll hear over a thousand trade proposals on this site between the end of the world series and March and 90% will be insanely one sided. The other 10% will get a few comments but ultimately would never work.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 11 months ago

I was messing with you to. But yeah, I don’t think you or I would make that kind of proposal, but yeah, the new crazy proposal of this off-season will be Stolmy Pimentel, Kelly, Britton, and Bucholz. Tell me I’m wrong mr. Purple Barney! That’s flashing back to the 90’s.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 11 months ago

It’s a reference to a song… not a children’s show.

4 years 11 months ago

Im confused..are you trying to make fun of Red Sox fans trade proposals? Because Pimentel, Kelly, Britton, and Buccholz would be an absurd amount to give up for one year of Adrian Gonzalez…Buchholz alone would be too much for one year of Adrian Gonzalez. Adrian Gonzalez is a great player, but he has one year on his deal, so his value has dropped significantly. Fangraphs didn’t even have him top 50 in their player trade value around this past all star break, and I agree.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 11 months ago

Yes, I was making fun because every red sox fan and Padres fan made those proposals last year.

Sleepykarl
4 years 11 months ago

Bowden it is then…

4 years 11 months ago

Why would a Red Sox fan be worried about defense at first base? Oh yeah, right. A Cub fan should know the answer to that.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 11 months ago

Lol! Love the Billy Buckner reference! I wonder how many here actually got what you meant!

Vmmercan
4 years 11 months ago

To be fair to Fenway, it’s really only down the line that’s little league, clocking in at (I think) 296 feet or something absurd. Right center where I’d imagine most homers are hit by lefties is pretty lofty.

BoSoxSam
4 years 11 months ago

I just thought of something, and maybe its unlikely but it makes me curious.

They’ve been playing Lars Anderson at first base a lot down the stretch, which I didn’t really expect; I thought they would increase Saltalamacchia’s playing time, and move V-Mart over. But now I realize maybe they’re giving him some early try-outs, to see if he can hold down the fort for a year at first. I still would like to see Beltre and Youk man the corners, but if not, maybe they want to fill first base internally, upgrade the outfield this year + pick up Ortiz’s option + extend V-Mart, and then -next- year nab one of the BIG free agent first base options. A-Gon is almost guaranteed to hit the market I think, and unless the Brewer’s make a deal, it looks like Fielder will be there too. Pujols technically could be there, although that looks unlikely to me. At worst, there should be at least one of those three available, and its possible Boston could get to choose between all three. If they think Lars can take over for a year, and Beltre is asking for too much, I’m realizing now they may really be thinking two years ahead now.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 11 months ago

Salty’s done for the season, thumb injury.

ELPinchy
4 years 11 months ago

I’m probably wrong but i think Vmart is gone and Ortiz probably gets overpaid to hang around another year.

I know Ortiz has been been amazing since he started hitting again but I think they REALLY can’t afford to have a blackhole at DH for the first month or two next season.

Dave_Gershman
4 years 11 months ago

Although I agree with you, I think they have confidence in Ortiz ability and confidence that he wont start off next season the way they he did the last two, or else it probably wouldn’t be worth signing him to the money that they are expected to sign him.

ugotrpk3113
4 years 11 months ago

Would Kelly, Anderson, and Kalish do it for Fielder?

4 years 11 months ago

I can’t see how it would take more than that. That’s a very solid package.

start_wearing_purple
4 years 11 months ago

Despite Anderson’s getting majors experience I’d say Rizzo is a stronger prospect than Anderson.

johnsilver
4 years 11 months ago

Ditto on Rizzo. He has shown the power the Sox brass were looking for and both have a decent glove. Anderson is probably just getting some show time for a trade about now if anything. There is a story in on of Thursday’s Globe articles referencing this also as recall.

No real use to give up anything for Fielder. Boras isn’t going to allow Fielder to sign any LT deal, not unless someone is going to way, way overpay and give him a Tex like deal that he does not deserve and won’t be producing for the last few years on. Wait until after next season and the market will be his gauge. Fielder/Boras going to be 2nd fiddle to the loser by a mile to whoever misses out on Pujols sweepstakes and nothing Boras can to about that.

4 years 11 months ago

Exactly…Fielder doesn’t have the trade value people in here apparently think he does. Kelly and Kalish are the Red Sox top 2 prospects. I don’t think Kalish will be a superstar or anything, but he will be an above average starter and is holding his own in the MLB despite being rushed due to injuries. The guy could very well be the starting left fielder next season. The jury is still out on Kelly, and although I’m not a believer in Anderson he was once a major prospect and is still top 5. I’m not a believer in trading three of your top five prospects for a guy who has major flaws, is coming off a down year, and will 100% go to free agency after one season.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

Kalish is the next JD Drew.

ELPinchy
4 years 11 months ago

Don’t ever wish that on anyone.

ELPinchy
4 years 11 months ago

Don’t ever wish that on anyone.

johnsilver
4 years 11 months ago

I would take that and who wouldn’t? .887 OPS over 13 seasons, plays GG defense, including at one of toughest RF in the game at Fenway, runs fairly well, good power, good eye and plays in more games than people give him credit for.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

I never said it was a bad thing lol. I love JD Drew.

johnsilver
4 years 11 months ago

wasn’t intending there to single you out anyway, you are not one of the Sox fans who have blasted Drew here and everywhere else over the years anyway.

What always gets me is many of those same people are the same ones who talked so great about trot Nixon, who missed un worldy amounts of time with injuries, was no better on defense than Drew, no better with the bat either, yet fans continually clamor over him years later, simply because he made crazy plays in the OF and got himself hurt in the process. He couldn’t even hit LH pitchers well in the best of times, but fans were just enamored with the guy for that one reason, but many despise Drew.. The contract? Must be it and those same people will never get over it.

johnsilver
4 years 11 months ago

wasn’t intending there to single you out anyway, you are not one of the Sox fans who have blasted Drew here and everywhere else over the years anyway.

What always gets me is many of those same people are the same ones who talked so great about trot Nixon, who missed un worldy amounts of time with injuries, was no better on defense than Drew, no better with the bat either, yet fans continually clamor over him years later, simply because he made crazy plays in the OF and got himself hurt in the process. He couldn’t even hit LH pitchers well in the best of times, but fans were just enamored with the guy for that one reason, but many despise Drew.. The contract? Must be it and those same people will never get over it.

johnsilver
4 years 11 months ago

I would take that and who wouldn’t? .887 OPS over 13 seasons, plays GG defense, including at one of toughest RF in the game at Fenway, runs fairly well, good power, good eye and plays in more games than people give him credit for.

4 years 11 months ago

I’m sure moving Lee to first is some kind of attempt to increase his value, but if this takes any at bats away from Wallace then this will be horrible! No one will be stupid enough to take on Lee in a trade even if he becomes league average at 1b and puts up a 2009 line of .300/.343/.489. Lee should face tough lefties and play 1b to give Wallace days off and on other days he should stick in left field. He’s not going anywhere so at least give the young guys the at bats they need.

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 11 months ago

IMO, Sox sign Werth Lf and D.Lee 1B,
Sox resign Ortiz(1/8 plus option)
Trade Papelbon for Mike Napoli,
Theo revamps bullpen through FA(Soriano) and trades(Kuo)

start_wearing_purple
4 years 11 months ago

Papelbon for Napoli is a bad trade for both teams.

BK
4 years 11 months ago

Especially for the Angels

RedSoxDynasty
4 years 11 months ago

How? Papelbon fills the Angels closer needs for next year and nets 2 draft picks if he leaves and I believe Napoli would rake for years at Fenway and would look great in a platoon with Salty. I’ll take this over overpaying V-Mart!

moonraker45
4 years 11 months ago

Trading a 4 million dollar catcher for a 10 million dollar closer doesn’t make much sense now does it.

4 years 11 months ago

Neither did the deal they signed Fuentes to…

bobbybaseball
4 years 11 months ago

As a Cubs fan, I wouldn’t recommend Derrek Lee.

4 years 11 months ago

I seriously doubt the Dodgers would trade Kuo.

mrsjohnmiltonrocks
4 years 11 months ago

Kuo is so awesome, but I hope you are aware that he’s made of glass.

4 years 11 months ago

“Trade Papelbon for Mike Napoli”

Make it Bard for Napoli and you might have a deal.

4 years 11 months ago

Might? Really? The Angels would walk across the United States and give Daniel Bard a piggy back ride back to the west coast to complete that deal.

JDortmunder
4 years 11 months ago

Fielder in that little league right field at Fenway “———- You must be thinking of yankee stadium. Fenway RCF is a pretty good poke. Since Boras doesn’t do extensions can you imagine the leverage Boras would have next season if the RS ever acquired Prince (with a significant package going back to Brew). He could ask for 140 mil and who in their right mind would pay a guy that much when his weight could jump up to 300 lbs. after he gets his long term deal. I like Prince but I don’t trust him (or Boras).

4 years 11 months ago

Sorry dudes but I wouldn’t want to see Fielder in a Sox uniform for more than 1 season at the most. There’s no way that guy can stay productive with his weight. I can’t imagine the amount of damage he’s doing to his body as he gets older.

mrsjohnmiltonrocks
4 years 11 months ago

He just might be one of those weird cases-you are aware that he’s been extremely durable, and in fact, has NEVER been on the DL in his entire career? Not once.

4 years 11 months ago

Maybe so, but I wouldn’t be willing to put my money down on that gamble. I could certainly see him as a DH a few years from now though, but not for the kind of money he’s going to bring in. Don’t get me wrong, he’s a phenomenal player – I just don’t feel it’s going to last for an extended amount of time. There’s only so much a 300lb body @ 5’11” can handle for so long

bobbybaseball
4 years 11 months ago

Beltre has always been a terrific defensive ballplayer but why do his best offensive seasons always come at contract time? I think he will want a deal in the 4-5 year range at about $12-14M per and no way the Sox will go anywhere near that. For his career numbers, and if he truly cares about winning, he should stay in Boston. But you can’t really blame a guy for going for the $$, especially when his agent is one Mr. Scott Boras.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

He has had 2 bigs year that occurred during his 3 contract years. That is hardly a trend. Especially since this is the first year he has played in a hitters park. And his worst season came in his last contract year. Not sure why people keep trying to make this parallel when it isn’t true. He had a great year for the Dodgers and went out to righty killer Safeco. Not unbelievable to think he would struggle.

bobbybaseball
4 years 11 months ago

In 2004, Beltre hit 48 HRs, 121 RBI and a .334 AVG after never hitting more than 23 HRs and never having 100 RBI and never hitting .300. Once he did that and signed the big deal, he hit .255, .268, .276, .266 and .265 before the .322 he’s hitting this year. Wow.

moonraker45
4 years 11 months ago

burn.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

Yes and he was in righty killer Safeco for those 4 years. Obviously 2004 was a career year that was mostly flukish. But it came at a time where a career year isn’t that strange (He was 25) and the fact he regressed when he went to Seattle isn’t unheard of. And I wonder where that career year during a contract was last year?

z3rogs
4 years 11 months ago

You are just dumb if you believe that.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

As dumb as thinking that 2 career years in 3 contracts years is a solid trend? And if he only plays during contract years explain the .265/.304/.379 last season. Even though he was hurt he started off the season healthy and still couldn’t hit.

z3rogs
4 years 11 months ago

It doesn’t have to be a statistical certainty to be true. His numbers will be down next year, count on it.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

His numbers will be down because of a kinda high BABIP of .330. But that is natural regression that has nothing to do with contract years. And for a guy who doesn’t try during non contract years he has pretty good fielding metrics. If he doesn’t try enough to hit well then why does he bother fielding well?

z3rogs
4 years 11 months ago

Maybe he likes to field more than he likes to hit, but understands that hitting pays the bills. Plug that into your BABIP.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

haha then I wish teams had gone year to year with him on contracts. He’d be hitting 40+ homeruns and a .300+ batting average a season.

4 years 11 months ago

Well how do you explain Beltre’s 2009? He had his worst season ever, and it was a contract year.

bobbybaseball
4 years 11 months ago

I can’t. You bring up a valid point.

jwredsox
4 years 11 months ago

I don’t want to see Youk at Third unless Agonz is at first. I doubt at this point in his career Youk could move to 3rd and be anything but below to average there. It is so different than 1B and I think the loss on defense has to be outweighed by the offense the 1B puts up. And I only see Agonz having enough offense to outweigh the defensive loss.