The Rays are targeting Angels catcher Mike Napoli as they look to add thump to their lineup, according to Stan McNeal of the Sporting News.
The arbitration eligible 29-year-old could play first base and catch for the Rays, who are also interested in Johnny Damon, Manny Ramirez and Vladimir Guerrero. Napoli asked for $6.1MM in 2011 and the Angels countered with a $5.3MM offer, as MLBTR's Arb Tracker shows. That means he'll likely cost at least as much as any of the DH options the Rays are considering.
The Rays currently have John Jaso, Kelly Shoppach and Robinson Chirinos as catching options, while the Angels have similar depth. Along with Napoli, the Halos have backstops Jeff Mathis, Hank Conger and Bobby Wilson on their 40-man roster.
Would be a great addition to the Rays lineup.
Definitely
I’ve always wanted the rays to have a secure catcher in the lineup
Whats wrong with Jaso?
.372 slugging%
.372 OBP
While thats great that he gets on base at that rate, usually teams look for a little more power from their catchers and are willing to trade off some OBP for SLG
I’d rather have a hole line up of .372+ OBP then a full team of SLG. That’s just me though.
Obviously I feel the same way, but you need some balance in your lineup.. Just look at the 2010 A’s who had no power and the 2010 Jays who couldn’t get on base.
I agree.
.372 OBP for a catcher is pretty elite. I wouldn’t give a crap about the SLG at that point
he would more than likely play 1st
The Rays were allowed to give an offer to Napoli? The Angels allowed this?
Pretty sure it was a typo.
Yeah, but who are they going to give up?
Longoria would work. I know…hey, a fella can dream, can’t he?
Thats a typo…. That was the Angels offer…
this seems like a great move for the Rays
I like this better then picking up the trio of aging DHs
Trade Napoli for Jaso. That would solve the leadoff issue.
Jaso is going to be a good catcher. I wouldn’t trade him… The thing is, I wouldn’t know who the heck they would trade for Napoli lol
Longoria! I gotta stop drinking so early…
Just about any team would love to have Napoli for their catcher*… except the Angels. Go figure.
*Twins excluded
cards?
Giants
why who do they have?
I agree with you. I don’t understand why the Angels are so eager to trade Napoli. Forget trying to get Manny and Vlad, stick Napoli at DH, that way we have a back up for Catcher and 1st. I wish they would trade Mathis and stop praising him so much because his defense is not even good with a career average of .199, but yet the Angels think he will do better because he was hot for about a month. Napoli batted .400 in a month before so they need to stop with this whole Mathis thing.
Noo!
Are the Rays smart or what! The Sox pick up Salty, the Yanks pick up Martin, and the Rays look to get Napoli who could be better than both of them.
I think its no question that Napoli is better than both of them
And will cost more than both of them. Therein lies the rub.
6.1 million is reasonable though..
For competitive teams isn’t it better to have the better player even if it means spending a bit more?
Except they wouldn’t just be paying the money, they have to trade players for him as well.
yes, I took that in to consideration.. but the price won’t be that steep, the Rays farm system can definitely handle moving a couple B prospects.
I still think Napoli is one of the most overrated players in the MLB. He actually got on base even less than Pena last year and while he slugged higher, I’d say it’s hard to argue Napoli is likely to slug much of any higher than Pena going forward. He’s also a poor defender with an above average bat at catcher and an average defender with a poor bat at first base and an outright awful bat at DH. I would rather have Jaso, personally.
Napoli is a DH who can catch and play first base. I wouldn’t trust him full time with any glove.
Both Martin and Salty are far superior defensive catchers and the only thing he has an edge in is power and Salty could easily surpass him there if he reaches his potential! So let’s wait and see who’s better out of the 3 in 2011!
Angels: Well we like Longoria 😉
Rays: *dial tone*
Rays: We like Eva Longoria too, great bod.
Rays: We would like to have half your pay roll for the next 15 years….I’ll take that as a no? Oke Doke, don’t say we didn’t try….*dial tone*…..
Rays GM walking away laughing!
LEadoff could be a good fit. What about something like….
Napoli + Kendrick + Reckling + Jepsen = Longoria?
hahahah I know I’m dreaming. . . but you know, thats what I do. After this off-season, thats all ANY Angels homer can do.
There is no way they let Longoria go…. He as untouchable as Jered Weaver.
he’s WAY more untouchable than Jered Weaver.
Jered Weaver reads this and is now concerned about potentially being touched.
Don’t worry, it’s not bad touch.
That’s what the Rays told us last time with Scott Kazmir…
You win.
Show us where on the doll your slider left you.
hahahahahahaah
Thinking the Angels could put together any package to pry Longoria away is dreaming.
That package you suggested is “Inception”-style dream within a dream within a dream fantastical.
Right but at least make it a talking point, throw Trout in there and then you might have a conversation-starter. That package is completely pathetic for Longoria.
I think even with Trout, Longoria and his ridiculously team friendly contract are about untouchable as anyone else in baseball
all those 4 guys+ trout+Torri Hunter(and 80% of his contract eating by the angles) and a pitcher…and then you have a starting point.
okay thats actually too much.
Trout is the best prospect in baseball. If he comes close to his full potential, thats a 325/400/500 with 30 SB and GG defense coming up of CF. That is worth more than Longoria’s production IMO. The contract is totally different subject and a total deal breaker.
sighh… I remember the days people talked about Brandon Wood that way
Brandon Wood was a elite prospect but I don’t think he was ever considered “the best”
rated #3 in 2006 by baseball america, behind Justin Upton and Delmon Young
and Upton and Young were miles ahead of him. Like I said, never considered the best. Upton and Young were both pegged as all time talents.
Ok what is going on today. I mean I love it but a few days ago, we werent willing to sign Jon Rauch for under 4 million and now it looks like we are going to get Damon and 1 of Manny, Vlad and Napoli? Heck, let Napoli catch and sign Manny anyway. This is a crazy day.
In all seriousness, I am fine with Jaso and who knows what they want, save all trade peices for the bullpen and sign Manny please.
I do NOT want Manny in the AL West, please take him Tampa!
Toronto would be ideal. I can’t believe they haven’t gotten it done yet with him being a perfect fit and the team being Manny’s first choice.
Hey, we don’t want him either, haha
I’d love to see this happen, but move Napoli to 1B where he belongs:
1B: Napoli
2B: Zobrist
SS: Brignac
3B: Longoria
C: Jaso
LF: Damon
CF: Jennings
RF: Upton
DH: Manny
Bench: Joyce, Fuld, S-Rod, Shoppach
Thats actually a very, very strong lineup. Whoever thinks the Rays wont be battling Boston for the AL East is a fool.
I like the lineup…. In the AL Central…. But not in the East…. Your telling me that lineup is going to compete with A-Gon, Youk, Ortiz, Pedroia, Ellsbury, Crawford, Drew, Scutaro, and Salty??? Righhhhhht.
I Hate the Red Sox…. SOOOOO MUCH.
considering the position switch to youk, the injury from A-gon(yeah i hope you all know his shoulder is messed up) wondering how Ped will come back…scutaro probably not being the starting SS, salty being straight up bad and drew being old and hurt yeah it could be a better line up
The position switch for Youk isn’t going to be an issue, the guy’s gonna hit no matter where you put him. So what if Scuturo isn’t their starting SS, I think that’s actually a plus for the Sox in that they have a guy who could be better. Yeah, Gonzalez had shoulder surgery, but everyone in the world is pretty confident that it won’t limit his production. They’ve added Crawford, and the only position where they’re likely to not get above-average production is catcher, although I wouldn’t be shocked if Salty got his act together at Fenway. Also, the Sox clearly have the better pen and bench.
If they get Napoli and one of Vlad or Manny, I’d put them above the Yankees. But I have no reason to believe at this point that any team in that division will top the Sox when all is said and done.
How about the vastly overated rotation after Price! Or e fact that your team doesn’t have 3 out of the 4 top hitters in your projected lineup! Or the awful team defense! Or the total lack of anything resembling a bullpen! You’ve had your run but be real, your team might compete for a wildcard if everything goes right, but Boston is better in every way by a mile!
There’s this this called the Wild Card..
The rays don’t need to score 6 runs a game because their pitching is giving up 4. That lineup + their rotation puts them on a pretty level playing field with Boston and NY.
If they sign Damon as an outfielder, Jennings is at AAA, Upton is in Center, and Joyce is in Right.
So potentially Tampa’s lineup could look like this?
Damon LF
Upton CF
Longoria 3b
Ramirez/Guerrero DH
Napoli C
Joyce RF
Johnson 1B
Brignac SS
Zobrist/Rodriguez 2B
Three minor moves like that and you’ve made up a big difference.
Why would Zobrist bat 9th?
cause I forgot about him. lol. thats what happens when a dude can play every position on the field.
What about Jose Lobaton? He caught most of the game at Durham last year. Why was he left out..or maybe he is going to Anaheim as part of the deal
The Angels don’t pony up for Crawford or Soriano…but instead trade their 20 HR catcher for a Rays back up and PTBNL. Sounds about right.
right? LEt’s improve that offense by giving up a guy who’s a legit power threat.
Gotta love Tony’s mentality.
Maybe Scioscia’s making this Small Ball thing a requirement – – and he doesn’t want ANY real HR threats. . . .
*sigh* what a winter.
it sounds right because their manager seems to have an issue with a catcher who is easily the most consistently strongest catcher in the league(i would look it up but im lazy i doubt any catcher has consistently hit more home runs since nap came up) and socia seems to not like him which is why even with the kendry injury last year Nap saw his playing time suffer..
Victor Martinez, who’s also better defensively. He didn’t hit HR’s at the rate Napoli has, but overall he’s hit more. The thing is, Napoli can barely pass as a catcher. And 20+ HR’s at 1B isn’t all that valuable, especially when you suck defensively.
I wish I had Scioscia and Reagins’ email addresses so I could tell them that playing their best hitting catcher who could very likely hit 30 HRs is a better idea than not playing him or trading him. PLEASE don’t trade Napoli, let the man play.
yeah but the guys got naked pics of scioscia or something. Scioscia is just not a Napoli fan.
Too bad the entire fan base is. I just shudder at handing the reigns over to Mathis. Conger’s not quite full-time ready yet. This move w/ no counter for power = rebuilding. Period.
Lol. I agree that there is some reason Scioscia doesn’t like Nap, but I haven’t seen it. He seems to play hard all the time, etc. I guess he is way up on defensive catchers, but Nap has the ability to be at the top of the team in HRs and RBIs, so you think they could find a spot for him. Angels should trade a catcher though, they have a million of them, just not Nap.
guys, , napoli has value, but he’s not what we need. he hits 20 homers, and thats it. no obp, no average, average glove… let someone else find the value in him, take his contract, and get that speedy lead off guy we need sounds good to me…
My problem is that trading Nap right now would have to be getting a low return value for him. If the Angels could get Zobrist for him, I would be ok. But, I doubt that is going to happen. If the Angels just wanted a speedy lead off guy, they could pick up Pods on the cheap for one year.
Boras is creatng smoke screens like he always does and I think this is a smoke screen getting returned by the Rays, make Boras think we are going after Napoli so he advises Manny to take the Rays offer. Andrew Friedman vs Scott Boras, game on.
I wonder what Angels would get in return….. Upton?
Dream until your dreams come true.
Would they even want or need upton? Outfield looks pretty stacked as in, with more studs on the way
Outfield looks stacked? Who are you kidding? Torii is on the downside declining rapidly, Abreau and Rivera don’t belong in the outfield anymore, Bourjos is unproven although I really like him, and Trout is at least 1 year away.
but what exactly are you getting in Upton.. while his power went up last year, he still struggles to get on base and the last 2 years he hasn’t come close to his previous 2 years before that .. He just doesn’t seem like the player you add to that outfield.. if you have Bourjos and Trout manning the outfield in 2012.. you most definitely would want someone with a lot of power for the remaining corner outfield spot. .
Outfield was stacked a few years ago. Right now, it’s faaar from stacked. Torii’s our best and that’s not saying a lot. Abreu? Give him a couple more years. Rivera? No thanks. As for Bourjous and Trout, I like them alot but still have yet to prove their ability to hit major league ball. Upton fairly young at 26, and if he gets rid of the attitude problems, you are left with a potential 30hr-30sb guy. I’m looking forward to a Bourjous/ Trout/ Upton trio in the outfield. Add in K-Mo, and whoo.
Upton would have to be the Starting point…. Or Zobriest.
Earlier in the offseason I thought he’d be perfect for the Blue Jays – could back up Lind as he gained experience at 1B, and Arencibia at C as he adjusted to the big leagues. Plus, he destroys left-handed pitching, which is something no one on the Jays did in 2010.
Ok Here’s what’s going to happen.
1. Rays sign Johnny Damon to play LF and move Desmond Jennings to CF.
2.. Angels trade Mike Napoli for BJ Upton.
And here’s the Angels:
LF Upton
DH Abreu
1B Morales
RF Hunter
2B Kendrick
3B Callaspo
C Mathis
SS Aybar
CF Bourjos
BJ Might get his act together playing alongside Torii and under Mike
Are you guys kidding me?? Look at Napoli’s AVG w/ RISP…. Situational hitting, His defense is garbage…. He strikes out alot… And hes the most expensive of 4 catchers…. Hank Conger is going to be LEGIT. Bobby Wilson hit 2 jacks in one game last year… and at the end of 2009, Elias rated Jeff Mathis as the BEST DEFENSIVE CATCHER IN THE GAME.
Napoli asked for 6.1 million in arbitration? He has to go.
agreed the Angels would be foolish to hold on to him
I’m sure Tampas got something that the Angels want that wouldnt be an outrageuos deal
A few measurements of player worth that will get you ridiculed on this site:
1. Situational hitting (it’s almost definitely a myth)
2. Having one multi-HR game (I think even Juan Pierre has one of those)
3. Elias (I wasn’t even aware there was anyone who doesn’t think Yadier Molina is the best defensive catcher in the game)
Just so you’re warned. That said, he does strike out a lot and his defense is suspect, which are two big reasons why the Angels are considering trading him.
Ouch, never looked at his numbers with RISP. Suddenly I’m glad the Red Sox didn’t go all in for him.
couldnt agree more
send Juan Rivera with him!
I buy the Andrew Friedman “smoke screen” theory here. He’s trying to get Boras to blink
hahaha as an angel fan i wouldnt mind trading napoli but we better get something better than a backup catcher and a few nobodies we need a 3rd baseman, another outfield or a good leadoff hitter with some pop i guess that leaves us with longoria upton or maybe zobrist lol hmmm if this happens i guess we are stuck with a good defensive catcher with no hitting ability and 2 backups with not alot of major league experience and then maybe we re-sign bengie molina lol i can joke right haha
We are not trading Upton for Napoli, Angels would have to add more even if we decided to trade Upton and we at no point were willing to lose Crawford and Upton in the same offseason.
i agree with scotty that lineup has got to be much better than last year and upton would definitely take care of the third outfield position and the leadoff spot 2 birds with one stone and it would be awesome if they would take rivera with them and abreu dh full time with an outfield start here and there lol
I don’t know how Angels fans will take it if Napoli is traded and Mathis is given the starting job…that would be a twilight zone style nightmare.
.195/.219/.278….but he calls a good game, right ?
Hank Conger/Bobby Wilson will do just fine….
And i just threw up looking at those numbers…. Although… He did break his wrist and never got his rhythm back….
When Mathis and Wood were both in the lineup last year, I felt like it was the early 70’s again, when catchers and shortstops always hit around .200. Yeah, I know Wood was playing third, but that didn’t keep him from hitting like Mark Belanger. Okay, a little worse than Mark Belanger.
Yeah Bobby Wilson can hit pretty well. He won’t launch em like Nap, but he’s a pretty good hitter for a catcher. And pretty good catching skills. And we got Conger coming up too.
he’s premium…
thank god the angels are not getting damon OR manny
Flharfh- every good team has one maybe 2 weak spots in their batting order and last year he started really good til he got hurt against the yankees i think it was i wonder what his average would have been if he never got hurt not saying he would have batted 300 but ill take 240-250 from him at this point with maybe 10-15 homers
also.. i can also guarantee that the halos are not gonna trade for jasso.. pfff!! LOL! seriously why would they trade a catcher to get another one in return?! doofuses..
im thinking along the lines of either zobrist, aybar, or even getting back sean rodriguez.. if they are getting upton it might be a package deal of some sort. it has to be because the halo outfield is also swamped with guys ..
I suppose we would include Rivera , at least i hope thats who we include.
I was really hoping the Jays would go for Napoli. With AA, who knows, maybe they did. He’d be a good fit as 1b/c to complement Lind and JPA
Sounds like you got your wish!
OORRRRRRRRRRRRR
naps for matt moore??? hmmmmmmmmmm 😀
The Rays were quietly shopping Upton last year, so those Angels fans who are mentioning him might not be too far off.
They have been shopping him this year too….
I’d take B.J. Upton and Elliot Johnson for Napoli, Izturis and a minor league pitcher of some sort.
I think B.J. needs a change of scenery and perhaps some mentoring from a veteran outfielder like Torii Hunter and Bobby Abreu. The Rays lack that veteran mentor for some of their young guys. Upton could take over left, Bourjos in center and Hunter in right. When Trout comes, he plays center and Bourjos becomes a utility outfielder.
Im guessing its either; Upton, Hellickson (would add Rivera and pay his full salary) or Jennings (same deal) Upton for Naps straight up is fair considering how much the both make, how dissapointing they both are and how soon they will be FA’s
BTW We will throw in Kazmir for free!
Yes. Please. Can we have Sean Rodriguez back for Kaz??? Please…. We will even just give him to you!!!
Hellickson and Jennings would not go anywhere unless they were acquiring a top tier major league player
Or Ben Zobrist for Napoli + Some random minor leaguer
Unrealistic but id take it lololol
Nap for Upton is fine with me. But I’m sort of nervous about getting a Tampa Bay Ray player who put together really nice seasons a few years ago, but has faltered a little recently, aka Kazmir.
But Upton’s 30-30 potential has to have the Angels salivating, and he’s fairly young. He would also fill our lead-off need, i guess. The thought of Upton/Trout/Bourjous outfield is salivating. Add in Torii and maybe we can sign Vlad, and boom.
LOL BK i wouldnt ming throwing in SK of course we would need another pitcher in return unless we go young at #5 maybe trevor bell or reckling or palmer or the other 3-4 pitchers that are almost ready oh and chatwood but i wouldnt mind the deal anthony said although im not sure who elliot johnson is and who the angels minor league pitcher would be maybe one of the names already mentioned?
They’re not gonna have to give up a ton to get him. He’s completely horrible defensively and some think he’s barely even capable of catching at this point. So I don’t think the Rays will have to give up the farm for a guy with average production at the 1B position, because he’s not gonna be catching very much in Tampa unless Jaso is shipped off.
Yes, situational hitting is a myth. Pretty much all comprehensive studies on it have come to the conclusion that almost no player has sustained a higher or lower level of play in “clutch” situations. Metrics like Clutch (from fangraphs), Close & Late and average with RISP all show pretty much the same thing… a player might have a good year or month “clutch”-wise but with a big sample size (like a career) there’s not much evidence that skillset exists. You’re pretty much either a good hitter or you’re not.
And you can give a guy credit without using 2 HR in a game as evidence… better to have done what you did now, which is to cite HR in limited ABs.
Sorry to come off like a jackas (plus an s).
dude… stop while you still can. this is becoming a train wreck.
Clutch or whatever someone wants to call it… you can’t tell me if you see a hitter that has a large difference in their slash line between bases empty and RISP that you wouldn’t feel a little nervous with them at the plate with RISP.
You’re right, I probably do feel that way in the heat of the moment, but it’s mostly because we’re so accustomed to having those stats thrown at us. 99% of the time when those little tid-bits show up on TV it’s a sample size of like, 15 plate appearances.
There isn’t any real evidence to suggest there is a skill (mental or physical) that allows players to do significantly better or worse in those situations.
pressure??
You can’t tell me that a player feels the same way coming up to bat in a 7-0 game with no one on base, compared to a 2-2 game 11th inning 1 out and a runner on third..
I agree with you that the RISP numbers are exaggerated, because a runner on second in a 7-0 doesn’t add any pressure, but in close and tight games with the game on the line, the feeling in the batters box is definitely altered.. much can be said also about the mental ability to close out a game as well.
While I do believe in stats being a major part of the language of the game I still have the old school pull of “conventional wisdom.” Yeah, there isn’t a stat that can measure “clutch” but there are some stats that make you think twice about certain players.
Pressure exists, sure, but these are major league baseball players who have been playing baseball their whole lives. It’s not like they got all the way there and suddenly the pressure was too much… if they had serious issues with performance under pressure they wouldn’t have made it to the majors.
Average with RISP is the really basic one and is obviously flawed (for the reason you mentioned), but if you’re interested look into “Clutch” and “Close & Late” because these look specifically at situations where the score is close, it’s in the late innings, etc. and they came to the same conclusion.
And you’re right, it’s similar to the role of the closer, and a lot of people are coming around to see that it doesn’t make sense to save your best reliever (if he is) just because he supposedly has the mind to pitch the 9th. You should use your best reliever in the toughest situations, period.
It’s not a perfect study, which is why I’m trying to avoid using definitives, because only as of relatively recently did we start keeping track of stuff like situational stats. But so far it seems pretty consistently a non-issue.
As an alternative to “clutch,” we might want to start looking at things like contact %, which does appear to be an actual skill and offers a better chance of moving up baserunners.
They may be professional athletes but lets not anoint them un human, many of them carry the same issues with high pressure situations that most of us have.
I’m just going to like every single one of your posts because clutch is a myth outside of some situations (Like a hitter who has a shift pulled on him when there is no one on base but doesn’t have a shift when there is a runner on 2nd or 3rd). And notice how the only difference in AVG with RISP over his 5 seasons is BABIP. When his BABIP is high with RISP his average is like in ’08 when he hit .274 w/ RISP with a BABIP of .277 as compared to 2010 when his RISP was .182 with a BABIP of .222. That points it being luck (it’s mostly random how many hit balls fall in for base hits). And the fact that it is mostly luck means clutch is a myth.