Marlins Make Offers to Pujols, Reyes, Buehrle

9:51pm: Loria confirmed the club made the offers, reports Juan C. Rodriguez of the South Florida Sun-Sentinel.  Marlins president David Samson, however, said the team had no official comment.  When asked if the club could afford all three players, Samson said “It’s a problem we never suspected could happen. That’s the true answer.”

5:03pm: The Marlins have made "substantial offers" to both Albert Pujols and Jose Reyes, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports and have also offered a contract to Mark Buehrle, according to Jon Heyman of SI.com (both Twitter links).  The team met with Pujols today, Reyes on Wednesday and Buehrle on Tuesday but apparently already felt comfortable enough to make contract offers, though Heyman reports there is "nothing close" to a deal with any of the three.

Miami's aggressiveness is no surprise, given how the Marlins have been in hot pursuit of several top free agents already this offseason.  It's unlikely that Pujols, Reyes or Buehrle would sign so early without fully exploring the market for their services, though a blow-away offer from the Marlins could change their minds. 

The Marlins' payroll was expected to increase by as much as $35MM this winter, but signing Pujols, Reyes and Buehrle would add at least $60MM to the 2012 payroll.  That's a big outlay for three players — to put it in perspective, Cot's Baseball Contracts lists the entire Marlins payroll for 2011 as just under $57.7MM.  Given how committed Jeffrey Loria is to put a competitive team into his new ballpark, we may have been conservative with our estimates about how much the Marlins are willing to spend this winter.


Leave a Reply

239 Comments on "Marlins Make Offers to Pujols, Reyes, Buehrle"


Member
thekoshow
3 years 7 months ago

Wow

Member
Dodgersarelife
3 years 7 months ago

WOW IS RIGHT, TERRIBLE SIGNING IF THEY SIGN REYES. FOR EXAMPLE, REYES BABIP WAS .353, A .35 POINT DIFFERENTIAL OVER HIS xBABIP,.318. IN FACT HE GOT LUCKY BECAUSE HIS LD WERE DOWN 7 COMPARED TO HIS LD/150, 110.70. SO THE DISCREPANCY IN HIS BABIP WAS NOT BECAUSE HE WAS HITTING MORE LINE DRIVES BUT BECAUSE HIS GB WERE FINDING THE HOLES. EXPECT HIS BA TO DROP ALMOST 40 TO 50 POINTS NEXT YEAR PROBABLY AROUND .290 TO .300. MIX IN HIS BAD KNEES AND IT SPELLS OVERPAID.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

 Hate hate hate hate hate…

Member
Dodgersarelife
3 years 7 months ago

please explain yourself

Member
MQAB
3 years 7 months ago

please explain your caps

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

Your team cannot even sign anyone right now…i doubt you would be upset if the LAD signed him…even overpaid.

Member
Dodgersarelife
3 years 7 months ago

TO be honest i would be upset, i am not a hypocrite.

Member
3 years 7 months ago

It’s not hate, it’s fact.  I’m a Mets fan that wants Reyes back, but there’s no denying his BA was fueled by a high BABIP. 

Member
CaseyBlakeDeWitt
3 years 7 months ago

Please stop trying to be be a second Bleacher Creature.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE :)

Member
CaseyBlakeDeWitt
3 years 7 months ago

There shouldn’t even be one… But somehow he pulls it off…

Member
Yankees420
3 years 7 months ago

No, no he doesn’t…

Member
Dodgersarelife
3 years 7 months ago

I apologize, but nice to meet another dodger fan… cant wait for next season

Member
CaseyBlakeDeWitt
3 years 7 months ago

Looking forward to it as well. Hopefully we can get a new owner soon (and a new GM) and the team will get back to where it should be.

Member
Kendall Adkins
3 years 7 months ago

Umm, why are you yelling? Or is your caps lock stuck? Anyways, there is a difference between ground balls finding holes, and hitting a ball so hard that the infielders can’t get to it. A lot of Matt Hollidays hits are ground balls, and he’s been doing it for years. I think Reyes is similar in that way. Also, players do try to hit the ball where the fielders aren’t. So, maybe those ground balls were exactly where he wanted them. 

Member
Dodgersarelife
3 years 7 months ago

xBABIP is based on league averages based on GB, LD, Fb , Bh. The league average for Gb is .240 Ba, most outs in a players season are GB. A discrepancy in BABIP vs. xBABIP is often proved by if they are hitting more line drives, LD =75% a basehit. For instance Coco Crisp had an xBABIP of .337, a differential of -.53 points under his actual BABIP of .284. SO xBABAIP suggests that coco crisps Ba of .265 was discrepant because he was essentially getting unlucky. IT is a proven theory however, it does have its flaws.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

Baseball is a game, not an alogrythm

Member
FrankTheFunkasaurusRex
3 years 7 months ago

Theo Epstein and his two WS rings disagree

Member
flickadave
3 years 7 months ago

Billy Beane might be wondering whether to agree at this point.

Member
diehardmets
3 years 7 months ago

BABIP is perhaps the most flawed metric for hitting, though your analysis for backing it up was solid. I agree that he over performed this year, but you have to couple stats with observations. I’ve watched Reyes for years, and when he’s hot he hits smoking ground balls that go for hits. Some guys just his like that. 

Member
MaineSox
3 years 7 months ago

BABIP isn’t flawed actually, it tells you exactly what it is supposed to tell you, the flaw is in the way people try to use it.

Member
MaineSox
3 years 7 months ago

Speed guys will have higher than average BABIPs and guys who hit a lot of GBs and LDs will have higher than average BABIPs; Reyes fits all of those things.

If you regress Reyes’ BABIP all the way to his career average he would still have a batting average around .300 with a respectable OBP to go along with a very good SLG (all of this from a SS no less).

I’m not saying that Reyes wont be overpaid (we have no idea what he’s even being offered at this point), but to say that he was overrated because of his BABIP, and that he is going to regress because of league averages is a very flawed way to evaluate him.

Member
Dodgersarelife
3 years 7 months ago

Then you don’t understand the way xBABIP works. It is not league averages but the expected BABIP using league averages as weights. Just as obp + works 300 is league average. For a guy like Reyes his BABIP will be inflated because of his speed but if you look at his career averages for his BABIP he is almost 30 to 40 points over. I don’t believe it is flawed but it is better to use it to compare players with down years to see why.

Member
MaineSox
3 years 7 months ago

I know how xBABIP works, but do you realize what you just said? “It is not league averages but the expected BABIP using league averages as weights.”  So you’re saying it’s not leauge averages… just… league averages…

Why should a speedy GB/LD hitter like Reyes’ xBABIP use weights that figure in the likes of Adrian Gonzalezs and David Ortiz and Adam Dunn (big, slow, flyball hitters)?  Tools like this work well for the general mass of players, but they tend to fall apart at the extremes (really slow fly ball hitters would have an actual expected BABIP lower than what xBABIP would give you, and elite speed GB/LD hitters would have an actual expected BABIP higher than what xBABIP would give you).

And in any case, xBABIP claims to tell you what you could expect with no “luck” so you wouldn’t even regress all the way to the xBABIP.

Member
Dodgersarelife
3 years 7 months ago

Good points, if you see this, please hear me out…. Yes xBABIP does not factor speed but LD% or FB% does not need to be weighted by the players speed. However GB% does. The way i look at it is i start with the number of groundballs and analyze it. For instance, jose reyes had 207 gb this year and 209 last year. YET HIS BABIP IN 2010 increased by 51 points. HIS FB in 2010 195, 2011, 181. LD 2010, 86, 2011, 104. There was a slight increase in line drives and a favorable drop in FB but these cannot be why his BABIP raised 51 points. SO why did his BABIP and consequently his BA raise astronomically. If i look at xBABIP which can tell me what he should have based on league averages, i only take in account for his FB AND LD because those should be constant and not dependent on speed. His GB do rely on speed and if you look at this year and last year they were practically the same. MEANING THAT HE WAS FINDING MORE HOLES AT AN ABNORMALLY LARGE CLIP. nothing can explain his 50 point increase other than that…

Member
MaineSox
3 years 7 months ago

Fair enough, and I guess I came across as being harder on xBABIP than I originally meant to.  I just don’t think it makes a whole lot of sense to use xBABIP instead of his actual career BABIP (which, incidentally, is lower than what his xBABIP was this year) or three year average as a baseline, especially with a guy like Reyes.

And you also don’t want to regress to either one, you simply regress toward.  So saying his BABIP was high and can be expected to come down next year is reasonable, but saying that it was 50 points higher than it should have been, and therefor should be expected to come down 50 points, is overstepping the reach of either stat.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

Here’s how I read this….

“xBABIP is based on league averzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz….”

Member
Slopeboy
3 years 7 months ago

You come off as one who has just discovered metrics and has decided to show everyone that he understands them. But that’s about all, anyone who’s familar with Reyes already knows that one of flaws has been that he was hitting too many balls in the air.It appears this year he cut down on that aspect of his game. Add to that the fact that he was playing for a contract, thus the career year. You are correct in that he will most likely come back to earth next year. Also, his problems have been with his hamstrings, his knees have never been an issue.

Member
Dodgersarelife
3 years 7 months ago

I’m sorry if I come off that way. Yet I am unaware how. Please feel free to tell me how as I dont mean to seem pretentious what so ever. Btw Reyes cut down his flyballs by 11. Not sure that is sufficient enough to be the cause of his inflated BA.

Member
Andy_B
3 years 7 months ago

For anyone who likes internet rumors with no substantiation and zero credibility here’s what some guy posted on the Stltoday message board had to say

“The source was Josh Johnson…not afraid to reveal that. The text I was forwarded read, “Pujols was at the stadium today lookin around and he didn’t like the offer we gave him is what I heard.” 

Take it for what it’s worth”

To the guys credit though he made the post at 4:17 central time when the news didn’t break that the marlins made an offer until 5:00 central.

Member
DT Flush234
3 years 7 months ago

Mozeliak hurry up and hire a manager.

Member
Andy_B
3 years 7 months ago

Albert won’t be signing for quite a while

Member
coolstorybro222
3 years 7 months ago

By that this means

“OH PLEASE SIGN WITH US, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE! *SOBS*”

Member
Dodgersarelife
3 years 7 months ago

Do the marlins actually believe Pujols or Reyes want to play in Miami for their nonexistent fans. Worst in baseball by the way.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

they are like Heat “fans” only show up when they make the playoffs

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

or like the Rays fans: they show up … never 😀

just kidding 😉

Member
CircusFresh
3 years 7 months ago

You mean since they signed Lebron and Bosh.  I was at several Heat games this season and it looked packed.

Member
jwsox
3 years 7 months ago

it was packed  for specific games, they actually had horrible ticket sales, most of their sell outs happened by half time…i remember watching the heat lakers game and there was no one there the entire game it was depressing

Member
wadecounty561
3 years 7 months ago

I guess having 101% attendance for the season = no one there watching the game. Your argument is flawless brah. Even in 09-10 we had 90% attendance.

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

No, only early on. The Heat had to run an ad campaign called “Fan up” to try to get fans to show up to the games. It was really pathetic that they had to do that.

Member
generalbocephus
3 years 7 months ago

Strange….when I went to one this season it was empty….not even the players showed up.

Member
Tired_OF_FakeRumors
3 years 7 months ago

Tampa bay fans dont even show up in the playoffs

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

Yes we do, we just don’t sell out, because over half of the people here are retired and on fixed incomes, and another large section is unemployed. However, we are in the top 5 in the league in TV viewership…this team needs to sell more advertising to increase revenue.

Member
Dodgersarelife
3 years 7 months ago

LAST TIME THE MARLINS DREW A CROWD WAS WHEN THEY ANNOUNCED THEIR WAS BINGO NIGHT AT THE PARK AND FRANK SINATRA MUSIC GALORE. THEN THE HORDE OF OLD PEOPLE CAME DOWN FROM BOCA RATON AND HAD A REAL GOOD TIME!!

Member
Lunchbox45
3 years 7 months ago

are you seriously a bleacher creature copy cat??

Member
Dodgersarelife
3 years 7 months ago

i think i came around first, just haven’t posted in a while

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

How bout the Yankee fans, whom leave when their team is loosing?

Member
NickinIthaca
3 years 7 months ago

In all fairness though, I’ve been to a few Yankee games, and have seen fans leave when they’re winning as well.  It’s all about beating the other 45,000 people to the few subway stations around the park…

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

“Losing”, not “loosing”. Why do so many people not know how to spell the word “lose”?

Member
NickinIthaca
3 years 7 months ago

I haven’t been pointed it out yet, but it has been killing me.  Thank you.

Member
MilwaukeeBravesFan
3 years 7 months ago

Well, somtimes the money is its own reward…

Member
vtadave
3 years 7 months ago

No, actually they just decided to bring both guys in, make bogus offers, and cross their fingers that Reyes and Pujols won’t accept. If by chance they do, the Marlins will, at the earliest possible allowable moment, trade both guys for C-level prospects.

Member
Superman
3 years 7 months ago

A la the Carlos Delgado trade.

Member
slider32
3 years 7 months ago

Let’s not forget that the Marlins have won 2 world series in the last 20 years. Alot of teams can’t say that.

Member
rayking
3 years 7 months ago

Very true, and they won them by pulling off big name acquisitions like they’re trying to do here. Use a massive payroll to win a world series, then trade off the expensive guys and slum it for a few years on the cheap, then repeat. They’re more of a threat to get these guys than people are giving them credit for.

Member
stl_cards16
3 years 7 months ago

Albert Pujols will not sign a deal without a NTC I can garauntee that.  I would assume the same can be said about Reyes.  Whoever signs these guys will be stuck with them as long as they want to be there.

Member
vonhayesdays
3 years 7 months ago

mets still paying bonilla for example 

Guest
3 years 7 months ago

I didn’t realize in 2003 that $53 million was a massive payroll and Pudge was a big name acquisition…….

Member
PWNdroia
3 years 7 months ago

I can see them getting Reyes, but no way they get Pujols.

Member
JacksTigers
3 years 7 months ago

Better yet, 15.

Member
John
3 years 7 months ago

It gets fans excited an something to look forward too. Shows ownership is serious.

Member
Edgard Fals
3 years 7 months ago

Like they care about fans. It’s the city they care about.

Member
jwsox
3 years 7 months ago

but this is a chance at a new begining, one of my former co-workers was from florida and he would describe how much it sucked to get to the stadium for a game. Now with it being closer to a bigger population not off in the distance like it used to be it will for sure bring in a ton of fans. Plus season ticket sales have already gone up and they already sold out all the boxes…They are starting over…add to that they have a talented young team and ownership is clearly showing they want to win…with their potential add to that reyes and albert they might see it as a chance to win the world series and why not….also the money never hurts

Member
vonhayesdays
3 years 7 months ago

a new stadium has a way of attracting fans off their couches and into ballpark . look at phillies , giants and baltimore 

Member
wadecounty561
3 years 7 months ago

I’d take low attendance over being associated with Frank McCourt and being buried in debt any day. Don’t act like your franchise doesn’t have issues.

Member
Matthew Dolter
3 years 7 months ago

good then buccos can trade for either lomo or sanchez