The Tigers have emerged as a suitor for Cubs starter Matt Garza, according to Jon Paul Morosi and Ken Rosenthal of FOXSports.com. The increased interest in Garza from multiple teams seems to indicate that the right-hander will be dealt before the start of Spring Training.
The Yankees are also known to be interested in Garza but according to one source, they are not currently engaged due to the Cubs’ asking price. Garza’s rising salary could also be an issue for the Bombers as they approach the luxury-tax barrier. The hurler projects to earn $8.7MM in 2012 with another year of arbitration afterwards.
Boston and Toronto have also been connected to Garza but sources say that there hasn't been much momentum towards a deal for either team. It’s also unclear if the Red Sox have the prospects to land Garza after dealing minor league depth to acquire Andrew Bailey and Mark Melancon.
Cubs GM Theo Epstein recently said that Garza is the type of pitcher that he would like to build around, but as the club looks to rebuild he'll listen on everyone.
I don’t see the Tigers getting Garza without giving up Jacob Turner, and supposedly he’s untouchable
He’s not untouchable. They won’t trade him unless it’s the “right deal,” whatever that is to Dombrowski and company.
He’s anything but untouchable…I’d give him up for 2 years of Garza in a heartbeat
Didn’t the Tigers already say they’d be willing to part with Turner for Garza? That was posted on here last week I think.
Think again, the Tigers and Cubs are talking a simple deal of Rick Poecello for Matt Garza. The Cubs want youth and Porcello is 23 while Garza is 28. It’s a done deal, you can take this one to the bank!!!
That deal wouldnt be worth it for the Tigers and they arent that desperate. Theyre looking for a 5 starter (or a number 3 in Garzas case) not looking upgrade one of the four they have
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!…oh wait.. Im not a Tigers fan.
If he is dealt, it will already be his 4th team, who would know the guy is actually very talented. His longest stay was the 3 years with the Rays but basically just stops along the way for the Twins and probably the Cubs.
Well not really his fault, JH shouldn’t of went after him in the first place. Now EpsteinHoyer are likely to trade him to kickstart the rebuilding process.
Anybody think it’s funny that the current and previous Cub GM’s have had the initials “JH”? Haha I know it’s just a random coincidence, but ironic nonetheless.
Uhm the Cubs pretty much won that deal easily…
A rotation of Verlander, Fister, Garza, Scherzer, and Porcello would be pretty awesome but I highly doubt it happens.
This rotation sounds great, but I really wouldnt even bother in trading for a starter unless its a LHP. Being in the AL Central, it is going to start hurting not having a left handed starter at some point. If you trade for Garza, then trade either Scherzer or Porcello and get a LHP for a starter. I agree that Verlander-Fister-Garza sounds great, especially for a playoff series, but look at what types of lefties the Tigers RHP will be facing this year.
Carlos Santana, Azdrubal Cabrera, Grady Sizemore, Travis Hafner, Jason Kipnis, Michael Brantley, Shin Soo Choo, Lonnie Chisenhall, Ben Revere, Denard Span, Ryan Doumit, Justin Morneau, Joe Mauer, Adam Dunn, AJ Pierzinski, Alejandro De Aza, Alex Gordon, Mike Moustakas, Eric Hosmer, ETC…..
The Royals are going to have a TOUGH left handed 3,4,5 batting corps, and the Twins always kill Porcello and Scherzer. We need a lefty to seperate Verlander and Fister and if we get him, Garza!!!
Only about a fifth of those lefties scare me.
“Twins always kill Porcello”
Porcello career against MIN: 72.1 IP, 2.86 ERA
I guess that’s considered “killing” for the Twins these days.
You can’t be serious.
If I hear one more time about how the Tigers need a left-hander for the sake of having a left-hander, I’m going to pull my hair out.
This.
Turner, Castellanos, and a low level gamble prospect
no.
You can have Turner but not Castellanos.
Take Josh Vitters hah
castellanos is not available.
agreed. SCARY 1-3. Garza would be the #2 and whoever is hottest between Scherzer/Porcello would be the #4 in playoffs
I’m not interested if it involves Turner, Smyly, or Castellanos, which it likely will
I’d be willing to part with Smyly and Turner but not Castellanos. It would be nice to limit it to one but if they threw in someone else, I could go for it.
But Castellanos is blocked by Inge! Haha, sorry, couldn’t help myself.
I was thinking they could add Darwin Barney. I don’t think the Cubs are getting both Castellanos and Turner either. Rather see Danny Worth as a throw-in in this deal. Cubs could use another utility IF.
Fister will be the #2
No way the Tigers give up Turner AND Castellanos in a deal…
he is not worth turner ,castellanos.he is an avg. pitcher at best.unless we get someone else included in the deal,but i dont think they have much of anything to trade.there just raising the price for other teams.
…lol average at best?! u should forever lose your posting rights
you should give up your desire for a cub pennant.Besides a lucky no hitter against the tigers what has he done that is so great?dont look at last years stats.look at the whole picture.he’s a 2 or 3.
He was 6th in the NL in WAR last year among starters (quoting another commenter here, but I think its correct). He’d be a second ace for Detroit. He’s a top tier talent. I think few of his stats would support your claim of average, and watching him last year I’d say his talent level might even exceed his stats. That being said, the Cubs will only accept if its Turner and Castellanos. 2 years control of a ace level pitcher means the Tigers are dealing for the most expensive commodity in baseball.
“He’d be a second ace for Detroit.”
No he wouldn’t. He’s not nearly the pitcher that Verlander is. The only thing that would help him out is the park. But Garza is not an ace. He’s better than an average pitcher but certainly not an ace.
finishing 6th in the NL in WAR certainly makes him an ace, keep your biased opinion out of factual information
Wait, don’t the Tigers play in the AL? How does his “ace” stats stack up when he was pitching for the Twins/Rays?
Okay, he was 15th in WAR in all of baseball. Doesn’t matter what league, that’s impressive.
Why clog the issue with facts. Garza, according to major league baseball, finished 26th out of the top forty pitchers and I believe major league baseball facts more than opinions about players. Anyone that puts faith in madeup stats needs to learn about the actual game, not a bunch of mathematic theories that are wrong 100 percent of the time. Players are human, not machines and many intangibles have to be considered that mathematical equations don’t account for, WAR is one of them, since replacement players have often outhit and outpitched the regular, making them expendable and out of a job.
I totally agree he is nowhere near Verlander, but then Verlander won both the Cy Young and MVP last year, so…who exactly is at the level of Verlander?
Comparing JV and Garza is dumb. JV compares to Doc and no one else. Garza was great in a hitters park last year and will be better in CoPa.
Verlander is better than Halladay. Its that velocity…I never realized until watching him in the playoffs this year exactly how hard he throws. Comparable, possibly but Verlander has a slight edge. He’s the best pitcher in the majors right now.
We take advantage of the fact that we have the best pitcher and top three best hitter in baseball.
My avatar begs to differ.
Hmmm, forgot about the freak. Gotta think about that one….
Still think its Verlander, but Lincecum is certainly in that elite group.
Well, I’d put them all in the same group. Can’t ignore a guy with 2 Cys and a World Series.
Andrew Miller over Clayton Kershaw and Tim Lincecum.
This haunts me every night.
When I saw him pitch at Washington for the first time, I almost cried that the Cubs didn’t sign him out of HS.
Miller did bring in Cabrera. Maybe that’ll help you sleep better?
Miller did bring in Cabrera. Maybe that’ll help you sleep better?
in fairness, garza is a solid 2…..even better 3
2 team control seasons of a 3 WAR pitcher paying him about $13M for the two years is not worth your top two prospects….and no one is getting Avila in a deal with the top prospect for a 50-60th ranked pitcher in MLB. Tigers really need a lefty anyways….Now I can see Porcello going in this deal…….with a guy like Fields…
Garza had 5.0 WAR last season. I wonder who would want Porcello. He is nothing more that #5, 5.00 ERA in weak central division. Even if Tigers throws Turner in the mix, I am not sure if Cubs would be interested. Turner reminds me of Matsuz, Bailey type of players.
Porcello is 22. He has the upside of a number two or three starter.
When will he ever show it? I don’t see much of improvements past 3 seasons. And he is 23 now.
Since when is 23 as good as a player will get.
The problem with Porcello is that he hasn’t shown much progression since ’09.
players are getting drafted at 22. Porcello has been in the league for 2 years at 22/23. Give the guy some space to grow.
Garza started 31 games in 2011. He had 23 quality starts and was blown off the mound in eight other starts, giving up five runs or more. That says third starter – nothing more. He also pitches in the NL central, faces seven major league hitters on a consistant basis, walks the eighth hitter to face a below .100 hitting pitcher. That pads a pitchers numbers dramatically.
i cant believe i have to post this in this thread as well. i already replied to you in another thread….king felix had about the same exact stats last year as far as quality starts goes
Who ranked Garza in the 50th to 60th range? I thought he was much higher than that.
since WAR is what your using to base your argument on, Garza’s was 6th highest in the entire NL last year, which makes him an ace and worth 2 top prospects.. Turner will DEFINITELY be involved if they trade.
I would rather have bruce chen than garza.
Latos and Gio cost 4 B prospects, but they were under control for 4 years, Garza only has 2 years of control. I would think 2 Bs and a C should be fair for Garza.
Not going to happen at that price. I’ve been following Garza trade rumors and the packages that are being talked about are much bigger. They are just rumors but they provide a decent baseline pulse for what the market is like. Theo is fine with keeping him, and is only shopping him to teams willing to throw in the kitchen sink. Also, Latos cost the Reds Yonder Alonso, one of the top first base prospects in the country. He’s a B?
John Sickels rated him as a B+.
Would hardly consider Alonso and Grandal a “B” prospect, Volquez is a former All-Star pitcher who was “Dustied”. Boxberger is truly a “B” prospect with a ton of upside.
John Sickels rated both Alonso and Grandal as B+ in July. Boxberger was C+.
The key is they had 4 years of control or more, where Garza only has 2.
Then you don’t agree with John Sickels. He has Alonso and Grandal as borderline B+/A- and Boxberger as a B-.
I can hear the cubs fans coming now lol as a jays fan, we just had to hear how Garza was worth our top prospects…..thank god were out and you guys are in.
u have fun at the bottom of the AL East once again buddy
Toronto’s hardly a cellar dweller.
4th place again!
You had the absolute worst posts I’ve ever read in any thread… congrats on making my brain hurt.
IMO the Tigers really don’t need a long-term SP like Garza because of the depth in minor league pitching prospects. Yes Turner is the top guy, but they do have other players who can pitch too. Remember Andrew Oliver? Well if he gets his ERA down a little, he could be a decent #5 for this year if they really want to trade Turner for that right deal. I don’t really want Garza to go to Detroit… but DD can drive up the price for other teams. 😉
It’s more the talent they have at the pro level than in the minor leagues. Verlander, Fister, Scherzer, and Porcello are all 28 or younger and locked up for the next 3 years. Plus Turner, Smyly, and potentially others are close to being ready.
“It’s also unclear if the BoSox have the prospects to land Garza after dealing minor league depth to acquire Andrew Bailey and Mark Melancon.”
Thats a joke right? They gave up hardly anything in terms of good prospects for those two players. Its not a matter of if they have enough, its a matter of if they are willing to give up there top players like Middlebrooks, which I really don’t think they want to do.
The Sox farm system is clearly not what it was even two years ago. The departure of several pieces in the Gonzales trade and players who have now come up….they are certainly not a top 5 (not even top 10) farm system as of now.
Whether the Red Sox have a good system or not, the one thing that I do know is that Theo should know more than anybody! If there is something there for a deal than he will be all over it.
I want Turner, one of Crosby/Smyly and Suarez.
Garza features less years under team control than Gio, but with Edwin Jackson’s unreliability and steep price tag, the Cubs can force someone to overpay.
We need TWO legitimate upper/mid rotation pitching prospects for Garza. Then, a more fringy young bat at a prime position.
The Tigers would suddenly look like contenders with that rotation.
The Cubs have young, starting pitching depth needed for the rebuild. Turner could even start this year.
Only the Tigers don’t have a long term need for starting pitching, so they have no reason to overpay.
Roy Oswalt on a 1 year deal makes 1000x more sense than this.
Garza provides more upside than Oswalt, and half the injury risk.
However, selling a nice chunk of your future in order to win now is never anything any GM would enjoy.
At this point, the Cubs really view this as simple supply and demand.
Someone WILL overpay.
Oswalt’s health concerns and what seems like not a lot of fire to play would be a HUGE concern for me if I were banking on him to help carry me deep in the playoffs.
For the Tigers, signing Oswalt would be a good idea, but not without risk. The Tigers need one more top of the line starter to compete in the playoffs and World Series. If you sign Oswalt and he gets injured again, there goes your shot at the title [making the playoffs is not good enough]. Getting Garza; however, is less risky. Having Garza in your rotation would make Turner definately expendable. I would not trade either Smly or Crosby as one, or possibly both could be in the rotation going forward, thus making both Porcello and Sherzer trade candidates down the road.
yes this makes sense.
Have you seen the teams in the Tigers division? They don’t need Garza to be far and away the best team in the AL Central
You don’t sell the farm to win the Central. You’d sell the farm to compete deep into the playoffs for the next couple years.
If the Tigers are going to overpay, now’s the time. Weak division, but with Garza, the Tigers compete with anyone in the AL.
But they will need Garza to advance farther than the ALCS.
cuz winning the division is all that matters right?
Deal.
DD is open to dealing turner. TURNER/OLIVER/DIRKS/PAULEY for Garza. all involved will be on the opening rosters
I have a hard time seeing the Cubs accepting that deal without Castellanos or Smyly substituted for one of the other names.
are you kidding me? I think the cubs should take Turner plus whatever they can pry away because turner-garza alone is plenty.
I agree, but I still think the Cubs would want Turner and Castellanos or Smyly. Dirks is a non-prospect, Pauley is a so-so middle reliever, and Oliver has control issues.
I don’t think we’re getting both Turner and Castellanos and I’ve been a Cubs fan for 25 yrs. Maybe Smyly and Turner. I like to see a package of Smyly, Turner, Garcia/Pauley, and Danny Worth.
Well, this may be a first. My impression from reading this board is that there are many Tigers fans who aren’t interested in top tier pitching. Its a bit of a head scratcher for me. Garza is young, talented, the Cubs ace (yeah I know thats not saying much but still, he’s ace of a big market team), and has a great post season record including being the winning pitcher in two world series games. He can locate his fastball which has decent movement, has an excellent change-up, and knows how to work in his breaking stuff (which seems to be the formula for the best starters these days). I would think thats exactly the sort of guy the Tigers would be willing to give up some prospects for. Its possible I’m under rating the prospects being talked about, but I have to admit this is not what I was expecting to read. Epstein asked for clubs interested in Garza to have their offers on the table by yesterday so they could decide the direction they want to go in. Its possible the only reason this rumor is floating around is because the Tigers told the Cubs what they were willing to part with, so there is a pretty good chance this trade doesn’t happen. I’m just not sure what Tigers fans are worried about…is Turner Detroits favorite son?
I’m not sure what’s so hard to understand. Some people want Garza and some don’t, both for legitimate reasons.
Usually when fans hear about the possibility of their team getting a top tier starter they are excited about it. I don’t think there is any question that Garza would help the Tigers win this year. I just find it odd that a team that is built to contend now would be willing to sit back and be passive, especially considering the disappointment you poor Tigers fans have had leading up to last year. If my team were as close to winning it all as yours, I’d be chomping at the bit. Gms have to protect talent in the minors, but fans usually are more short sited.
Adding Garza would be nice, but there’s no need to go into “win now” mode. The Tigers are built to compete until at least 2014/2015, when Verlander’s and Cabrera’s contracts are up, and Porcello/Scherzer/Fister/etc. are no longer under team control.
Also, the Tigers were a 95-win team last year. I don’t believe they’re truly a 95-win team, because they had to reel off 12 straight wins to get that close, but I think they’re good enough to win the division as it stands now. I could see them easily in the 88-to-92 win range. That should be good enough to win the division. Signing someone like Paul Maholm, for example, rather than selling the rest of the farm to get a higher profile starter could still put them in the playoffs. And once you get to the playoffs, it’s basically a crapshoot.
/tl;dr
There is a difference between a win now team and a team poised to contend. Garza would be a key piece in any rotation in the post season, and combined with Verlander could give the Tigers a real shot at doing some damage in October. Maholm on the other hand has spent his entire career in Pittsburgh, the definition of a low pressure environment. He has exactly zero playoff appearances, and unless I’m mistaken has never even played for a winning team. I like the Oswalt option a bit better, he at least can do what he does in a pressure cooker, assuming that he is healthy in October. All in all, Garza would be a much bigger piece in the Tigers puzzle than either of those guys since he has stayed healthy through most of his career, and has proven his postseason worth. One point that really supports your argument though is the impression I’ve been getting that the Tigers farm system is a bit top heavy; they have a few top tier guys, but the talent level really drops off after that. I think more than most other teams, trading away two of your top three guys really would gut your farm system.
//All in all, Garza would be a much bigger piece in the Tigers puzzle than either of those guys since he has stayed healthy through most of his career, and has proven his postseason worth.//
Yes, but adding an Oswalt or Maholm might help just as much as adding Garza (as in, just getting to the playoffs) and not deplete the farm system.
Obviously, there’s arguments to be made on both side.
maholm, crazy as it seems is a good idea….he really could benefit from that little thing the pirates couldn’t do.um run support!!!
Maholm is solid, and I like him a heckuva lot better than Joe Saunders.
Keep in mind that the Tigers can also offer salary relief to the Cubs, by taking on a terrible contract along with Garza. So it may not be a prospects for Garza deal, so much as it would be a prospects for Garza + a bad contract deal.
If you’re trying to rebuild, as the Cubs seem to be doing, why would you lessen a deal involving your best chip by including a bad contract? It makes more sense to get as many top-notch prospects as possible for Garza and worry about dumping the bad contracts in separate deals.
Remember the bad contracts that the Cubs are trying to unload are VERY bad. You Tigers fans don’t want any part of our Zambrano or Soriano nonsense. Dempster would be the next worse contract, and he wouldn’t have a spot if he went to the Tigers and would probably veto it. The only other big contract is Marmol, and he’s got enough upside that if the Cubs trade him they’ll want something in return.
If it meant making the deal around Smyly, 1/4 of Sorianos contract would be awesome.
The Cubs could trade Soriano for cash considerations if they were willing to pay 3/4ths of his contract. He’s a liability in the field but he’ll give you 25-35 Hrs a year pretty consistently. 4 mil a year would be cheap for that.
Agreed, he has some limited value.
But, nowhere near his current price.
The Cubs are going to eat some serious cash.
Honestly I don’t even think they’ll be able to move him, which is too bad. From everything I’ve heard he’s a nice guy, good clubhouse presence, easy going and hard working which makes his skill set even worse because the young kids might look up to him. I just hope his spectating at home runs, lost looking play in the outfield, and poor plate discipline don’t rub off on his fellow countryman Starlin Castro or any of our other kids.
The Tigers can’t offer that much salary relief. They have money coming off the books, yes, but a lot of that is about to be tied up in raises to Verlander, Cabrera, Scherzer, Porcello, etc.
I agree, in fact there is a pretty good chance that unless they get a revenue boost from post season runs I think at least one of those 4 will not resign.
They’re all under team control, though. Verlander and Cabrera will be getting pay increases, and Scherzer, Porcello, etc. are arbitration eligible. They won’t be non-tendered.
Sorry, wasn’t clear, I didn’t mean this year or next, I meant down the road. Less so Porcello, but the other three are going to be able to ask for big contracts.
I think the Tigers know that too, and might trade one or two of them net some sort of return.
You guys are killing me. Garza isnt an ace but he is a #2 starter. I understand that that a team shouldnt have to give the cubs a ton of prospects but they should give them atleast 3 good ones. In will prolly take 3 years for turner to develope into atleast a one or 2 starter. They want to win now. Garza is a proven winner NOW. They seriously have a good shot with him in the rotaion to win the world seies. The tigers hav a low chance of wining the world series if fister and scherzer are your 2 and 3 starters in the post season. Thats fine cause you tiger fans can wait three years for your oliver and turner to finally turn the corner and by then Verlander and the rest of the team will be three years older. All im saying is they can win right now and in three years hav a bunch of other good prospects ready to come up.
Agree. Strike while the iron is hot. The window for the World Series does not open often, or stay open for long.
Tigers need a LHP. I say this on almost every Tigers board, but it’s true. Cant compete with Red sox and Yankees without a solid Lefty in the rotation
Yes you can. In fact we did last season.
The Tigers don’t need a LHP that much. Most of the scary lefty hitters have left the division. Who’s left, Pierzynski? Dunn? Hahahaha.
Also, who beat the Yankees in the ALDS?
ETA: The corpse of Hafner?
Huh? Garza pitched with the Rays in the AL East.
we keep beating the yankees in the playoffs.dont think thats the issue.we always have problems with the red sox in regular season.
Bad idea to trade Marshall first. Now everyone knows were in a rebuilding mode, so it would make little to no sense to keep Garza and prevent us from drafting better players.
It’s likely that they’ll accept the best package possible instead of keep him and entertain offers. I still hope he can get as good a haul as Latos/Gonzalez even if he is team controlled for 2years instead of 4.
i don’t think fleecing the reds for a relief pitcher with one year of control left is considered waving the flag for a rebuild
When Theo said “We’re rebuilding”, I think everybody then knew the Cubs were rebuilding. Did you think it was a secret?
Tigers get: Cubs organization
Cubs Get: Tigers organization
It works out. Tigers get Garza and the Cubs rebuild.
Tigers get: Garza
Cubs get: Rick Porcello, Jacob Turner
No.
Tigers get Garza
Cubs get Turner, Crosby, Fields
I’d replace one of either Crosby or Fields with Garcia.
Still sounds good.
You can keep Porcello, we have plenty of 4s and 5s
we get garza.cubs get turner,fields,and a bag of baesballs.
and the tigers get screwed………..
Garza is young enough to give the Tigers good long term value for trading Turner. I dont think the Tigers get Garza without giving up Turner. The Tigers time is now, not 3 years from now when Turner may or may not be Verlander like. The Tigers have a solid 3 year World Series Title run if they pick up Garza.
Agreed.
Normally, dealing the prospects necessary would be crippling long term.
However, with Garza they open up that win-now, 3 year window.
It makes more sense for Detroit or New York than it does Toronto.
Although, I’d prefer the haul of Jays prospects to a very good Tigers package.
If the Tigers were to sign Cepedes, trade for Garza, and use Boesch to trade for the Padres Chase Headley, they would be as strong as any other team in MLB. Maybe one relief pitcher short, I would sure like a stronger 7 inning man.
Octavio Dotel would be the seventh inning man.
I dont think Dotel is solid enough for 7 inning duty. He gets hammered against lefties; therefore, more suited for a situational role. AA throws to many sliders, he will always have arm trouble.
I’m assuming Dotel would take on righties and Coke would take on lefties, and they’d be co-seventh inning guys.
I’m assuming Dotel would take on righties and Coke would take on lefties, and they’d be co-seventh inning guys.
What if X-team traded for King Felix, Sabathia, Halladay, Lee and Lincecum for the starting rotation. Signed Pujols(1B), Prince(DH)and Jose Reyes(SS) then traded for Longoria(3B), Dustin Pedroia(2B), Justin Upton(CF), Mike Stanton(RF), Ryan Braun(LF), Yadier Molina(C) then with the money left over sign Ryan Madson, Jonathan Papelbon, Coco Cordero and Heath Bell. Team X could be close.
Do you have the number to order X-team season tickets?
I’m not sure that any of the players traded for either Melancon or Bailey would necessarily be part of a potential Garza trade, so I don’t think either of those trades affect whether or not the Sox could trade for Garza. The only players I could see possibly having been in a theoretical Garza trade would be Head and Alcantara, but they would have been the “other” pieces and could be replaced by any number of mid-level prospects.
Middlebrooks, Barnes and Renaudo.
It’s a steep price, but Garza is a solid #2, with ace upside and above average K/9.
Boston might be better off standing pat.
Garza will be too expensive, and Jackson demands an awful contract.
Agreed. I don’t think Red Sox have the pitching prospects to get him…so probably better if they looked elsewhere.
Barnes can’t be traded yet.
I wouldn’t trade that for Garza anyway, I’m actually not a fan of trading for Garza (not that I wouldn’t want him on the team, I just wouldn’t give up the prospects it would take to get him). I’d prefer to sign Oswalt or even Kuroda, and I might even prefer to trade for Floyd depending on how much cheaper he would be (prospect-wise).
If I were a Red Sox fan, I’d agree with that assessment.
Bard should convert well as a starter, and there’s really no need to sacrifice much of the farm.
Sounds good, but winning the world series is random. The teams with best records last year the Phillies and Yanks didn’t even make the series. That’s what made the Yanks of the 90s so good.
Fine by me; the white sox have owned Garza So far in his career
Sounds good me too.
Garza for Turner, Crosby and pieces I’d do; but if I was DD i’d fish for Garza and settle for Wandy Rodriguez, who could be got for Oliver and one prospect from the team’s #10-15 list… He’d cost more money but would not gut the farm system (as fragile as it is). Garza is a 2-year player while if you can keep Turner you’ve got someone who’ll be ready to replace Verlander atop the rotation in 2 years. I don’t understand why teams aren’t looking past Wandy’s stats and checking out his skill level. He’d be wicked as a No. 3 on a winning team.
I agree, it would nice to get a middle of the rotation lefty but Wandy’s interleague numbers make me nervous.
Of all the possible trade pieces the Tigers have, Oliver is by far the most comfortable I’d feel deelin away.
Small sample size; NL SP get very few starts per season against AL teams. Can’t really conclude anything from them.
If Brandon Phillips and the Reds don’t come to a deal on an extension soon, he’s very likely going to be available at the deadline (if not sooner). Doing a deal for Wandy and holding onto Turner for a potential future Brandon Phillips trade would make a ton of sense.
you are a smart baseball man.the best thing said on this post so far.
The NL Central isn’t that strong with Pujols and Fielder out of division. The Reds are contenders. Unless something disasterous happens, Brandon Phillips isn’t getting traded midseason, regardless of extension status.
Problem with Rodriguez is he has 4.2 innings of post season experience. I think the Tigers could probably win the central with what they have right now, so what they really need to add are starting pitchers who do well in the post season, and thats Garza, and thats why his trade value is so high.
Garza’s WAR on BR is 2.9, on fangraphs it’s 5….his previoius fangraphs WAR were 1.6, 2.9 3.1 and BR were 2.0 3.8 and 3.2…..someone at Fangraphs fatfingered their data entry on this year’s war from 4.0 to 5.0….if Detroit were ginn atrade their 1 2 and another top 10 prospect they would have goe after Gio or Latos, younger guys with more upside…lastt ime they traded 1-2 top 10 and pieces they got Miggy…..2 yrs of a average #2 starter Garza would be a horrible return for clearing out your farm system….
Once again I think the answer to why they didn’t go after Gio or Latos is that they aren’t looking for someone who is going to get them to the post season, they are looking for someone who is going to help them win in October. Garza has 31 innings of 3.48 ERA baseball in the postseason, including his last post season apperance in 2010; 6 innings of 1 run ball against the team that knocked you guys out of it the next year. Latos and Gonzalez have a combined 0 innings of post season experience.
Smyly is quickly becoming more untouchable than Turner IMO. I think a Turner trade is far more likely. No way to both in the same deal.
Agree, Smyly numbers have been ridiculous this past season. His stuff, though not the best velocity, really seems to frustrate hitters. I personally like Smyly about the same as Turner, but seems to be much closer to getting his stuff together than Turner and seems like he could be the coveted #3 (with #2 ceiling in my opinion) lefty that would fit in to their rotation. No way DD would be foolish enough to include them both in a package.
Don’t forget: Garza no-hit the Tigers in 09. Even though they were ahnihilated with injuries to their top guys at the time, they know first hand how good he is from that and his years with the Twinkies. Blue Jays have been “in” on virtually every available starter this offseason, except for maybe Wilson, so I think they are just bluffing. Red Sox’ farm has been widdled to nothing between the Gonzalez, Bailey, and Melancon trades over the last year. If the Tigers want to make an impact outside of possibly waiting around for Cespedes, this would be a great move to make.
I would take the SLH Saunders on a 1 yr/ $8-$9 mil + incentives and hold onto Porcello ($1.3 mil or so)for one more year to really see where he’s at….Garza will cost them $8 + mil in salary while depleting the farm system, and you can see another year of the Turners, Smyleys, etc…Saunders will be motivated as well as his familiarity with the AL
Saunders has a 6.0 era and is 0-2 in 18 innings of postseason play. He’s not the piece the Tigers need.
As a White Sox fan, a rotation of Verlander, Garza, Scherzer, Fister, Porcello would make me very sad. Tigers should be aggressive but not silly with Garza. They are still the AL Central favorites without him.
Tigers won’t win anything in this year. They have one good pitcher and a guy who no one outside of Seattle heard of til he was sent to Detroit in Fister. If the Tigers were smart they would get rid of all that dead wait like Inge, Boesch, Peralta,Dirks, Don Kelly and Raburn. the main this is to get rid of Inge. I was hoping Aramis Ramirez would have signed with Detroit to ruin that team make the players around him lazy like he made the Cubs players lazy the last 3-5 yrs.
This is a lazy comment. No one heard of Fister outside of Seattle, but that doesn’t mean he wasn’t any good.
None of the players you mentioned are dead weight, and acting like the Tigers should be in rebuilding mode after an ALCS APPEARANCE is silly.
Out of the players I names Inge Boesch are dead weight, you can’t deny that. Fister was 6-12 in Seattle but you make him sound like Cy Young
//Out of the players I names Inge Boesch are dead weight, you can’t deny that.//
I glazed over Inge because who doesn’t, but Boesch is most definitely not dead weight and you’ve just proved yourself to know nothing about the Tigers. I really hope you’re not a Tigers fan.
//Fister was 6-12 in Seattle but you make him sound like Cy Young//
First off, you can’t even get Fister’s record right and second off, he had the worst run support in the league prior to the trade. It’s hard to win games when your pathetic team can’t score you any runs.
Make it like a 6 team trade, Cubs trade Garza to who ever has the best prospects with at least on ML ready player, they also trade Soto, Soriano Zambrano, and Byrd to 4 other different teams. Z to Miami for a year of free Cuban food, Soto to Anaheim for Single A player, Soriano and cash to Oakland for nothing back and Byrd to DC for Cash or PTBNL and they would need to trade one more player as well, Dewitt to Tampa Bay for PTBNL.
You know… the other teams you in your grand GM sense are loading these huge contracts on have wants and needs too. Most of them don’t include low-talent huge contract players.
Even Theo won’t get the Cubs out of the mess their in for years.
Tigers aren’t interested in Garza, they aren’t interested in JJ, it is a “rumors” site.
Tigers traded Jair due to injury concerns, sounds like the Braves are doing the same and now we are supposed to believe the Tigers want Jair back…uh yeah right.
Tigers liked G Gonzalez and his 4years of control until Oakland said they wanted Turner, Castellanos and Smyly they quickly said no thanks.
I doubt the Tigers want 2years of Garza if it will cost them Turner, Castellanos and then some. No doubt they inquired and then moved on.
Red Sox didn’t exactly give up “minor league depth” in a couple of low A ball guys, a couple of backup players at the major league level, and terrible Weiland. They still have plenty of prospects to land Garza, but they won’t do it because the price will be too much for their liking.
That’s right north east hoes 6.
I got news for Tigger fans. Garza is far more proven than Oswalt. Even Edwin Jax(who the Ts once had) is a more proven post-season pitcher than the injured Oswalt. Oswalt is not the TOR pitcher he was in Houston-hes a #3/4 guy with injury issues and diminishing velocity. Turner/Smyly/ one more minor piece likley lands the more post-season, still in the prime of his career Garza.
no way the tigers trade avila.
lol
Hicks? Aaron Hicks in the TWINS system??
Please … they wouldn’t trade Avila for Garza straight up. He’s by far their best young player.
Are you incapable of rational thought? Honestly every time I see that you made a post, I look to see if its dumber than the last…
Thanks man. I was really worried I wasn’t going to have my daily facepalm from a commenter today. You just saved my life.
I’d trade Alvila.
Could quite possibly be the dumbest thing these ears have ever heard! You have got to be a pathetically drunken sad Cubs fan to speak such ludicy! With a comment like that, you should have your keyboard confiscated for 90 days!
OMFG! This could quite possibly be the dumbest thing that I have ever heard in my life. With this type of comment, you have to be a pathetic, druken, idiotic Cub fan that is near suicide. I swear, for comments like this, you should get your keyboard confiscated for 90 days!
your completely insane…or a cubs fan
NELSON, started drinking early I see!
There’s that Alvila guy again.
Jays are in on that
exactly
If the rumors that the Cubs wanted Drabek, Marisnick, Perez and others, or a similar return from another team, Garza will easily remain a Cub.
problem?
No, as part of the trade the Tigers would send a group of dimwitted country folk.
Meh. Who needs a 24 year old catcher that finished 12th in MVP voting. The Tigers signed Gerald Laird to replace him.
I meant if Garza was being offered for free, then the Jays would be in on that. As they always seem to be, then AA hits you with a trade from no where. thats why i havent been too disapointed when they didnt land the big names.
But from all the speculated trades, they all seem to ask for too much. I dont follow others teams as much as the Jays, but i didnt realize that the Tigers needed a lot of help in the rotation or that they had the prospects to send to the Cubbies.
It makes more sense for Toronto to cultivate their talent, and deal from a surplus.
So you’d gut your farm system for a #2 pitcher — at best?
Yeah, I do actually. I don’t post here only for laughs and to share my charm you know.
Mat Latos has more value than Garza, and they expect a return far greater than what the Padres got? I don’t blame them for asking, but I really can’t see anyone succumbing to those kind of demands. Not for only 2 years of control over Garza.
Uhhhhm…Why?
I think you’re wrong.
Well, Theo has said he is fine with keeping him, so I guess I’m just naive to take him at his word. I think there is a pretty good chance he gets traded but only because I think the market for him is strong and one of the teams interested in him will throw together a good package of prospects. I think you are right that the Cubs are going the rebuilding route, but the options most Cubs fans are talking about are either trading Garza for a big haul, or trying to sign him to an extension. Theo has said he believes that Garza is the type of player you build a rotation around. You have to remember that rebuilding looks a little different when you do it with a $130MM budget, so I don’t think trading Garza is a necessity. He’s the Cubs best chip by far, so rebuilding or not they can’t just let him go. If the price isn’t right this off-season, they’ll wait until the trade deadline and try to rake someone over the coals.
Its not the words, its the fact that they are all in the right order that makes them impressive:) It might not seem like it, but I try to keep my posts small. Guess I have alot to say.
You said “I don’t care who they part with to make it happen”. I was referring to that.
The Red Sox farm system is already depleted due to bad drafts & the Gonzalez trade. So yes, 3 more good prospects out the door does really gut the system.
Garza’s not a great pitcher — he’s a good pitcher — who has 2 more years left on his deal & is expensive.
Didn’t you just say prospect don’t matter? Make up your mind.
Welcome to the team.
i hope your right.
probably upgrading rotation to keep pace with Angels and Rangers. Tigers are also in Jurrjens rumours.
I wouldn’t classify Garza as a head case… at least relative to the real nut jobs of the MLB. Porcello will be better than Garza eventually, but as of now, no way.
I love Porcello, but down the stretch he posted a 3.50 ERA against some of the weakest offenses in the AL. He was good, but not great.
I think he showed more in the playoffs than down the stretch during the regular season.
Seriously?? Porcello was worse in every possible way. Garza also has a very reasonable walk total, so what are you talking about that he’s wild? If you want wild, go look at Gio
Gotta disagree about Garza being a head case. Garza was cool and composed going into Wrigley last year which is a hard place to pitch. I thought he was very level headed, but then I have Zambrano to compare him against. A 3.48 career post season ERA in 31 innings is a good indicator he can control his emotions(edited this line for incorrect stats). Porcello just plain didn’t impress me with his stuff during the playoffs, or his composure (partially because the Tigers lost every single game he played in). The stats don’t agree with you and I didn’t see it in my limited sample, but you watch him pitch more than I do I’m sure. Garza I would say was better than his stats last year. He’s the real deal, nasty stuff and his record would have been much better if the Cubs had held onto some leads for him after he left the game.
“Porcello will never have the K numbers of Garza but he also will never be as erratic and wild”
The fact of the matter is that a big difference between good pitchers and great pitchers is that great pitchers strike people out….Garza might walk more, but he also doesn’t give up as many hits as porcello does
Vitek isn’t even projected to stay at 3rd base. People think he’ll wind up in the outfield. More like Cecchini (who can’t stay healthy) & Bogaerts (who will most likely wind up at 3rd or in the outfield).
But neither of those guys offers a solution for 2013. Unless someone actually believes Youkilis will be able to play 3rd base then, which I don’t.
also, aren’t the Cubs looking for starting pitching and not infielders
Middlebrooks says hi.
Couldn’t have said it better.
SP always has more value than catching, especially when garza still has 2 years of control, i dont care how much his salary might raise in arbitration
they should look into tearing down the ivy off the walls.theo wants to put a mini green monster there.
I am pretty sure the cubs are looking for a 1B and a 3B.
The Cubs are looking for pitching, catching, infielders, outfielders, hitting, and a bigger ballpark.
The Cubs should be looking to get the best package possible not specific players, and knowing Theo, that is exactly what they are looking for.
yes they do.they dont have one.
4 years of Avila > 2 years of Garza. By far.
And the Tigers have no one to possibly replace Avila, given that V-Mart is a full time DH now.
He caught almost every game last year for a reason. They need him in the lineup.
Why would you trade your up and coming C and perhaps the 2nd best bat on your team behind Cabrera?
I think he was making a joke based on the original poster misspelling avila as alvila
What Lunchbox said. We need sarcasm font!
perfectly logical.. but do you even watch baseball??
trading both gose and marisnick would be depleting said surplus..
it should involve a few of those names, but not all.
i’d trade 1 good prospect not named d’arnaud and 2 B- prospects for garza.
he shouldn’t command more based on his control.