Justin Upton Rumors: Wednesday

The Diamondbacks are willing to listen to offers for Justin Upton, but they’re not looking for prospects. "We're still in win mode,” GM Kevin Towers told Nick Piecoro of the Arizona Republic. We’ll track the latest rumors on Upton here with the most recent updates up top.

  • Olney suggests the Braves could be a fit for Upton (Twitter links). Atlanta could build a deal around third baseman/outfielder Martin Prado and pitching prospects, Olney writes. Upton would balance the Braves' lineup and provide the team with cost certainty going forward, Olney adds.
  • The Diamondbacks believe they could obtain a package of perhaps three players for Upton, Piecoro writes. Towers said he’s not shopping the right fielder, but will listen in case an enticing offer emerges. “Clubs have asked; I've said, 'Hey, tell me what you would do.' We could either say yes or say no," the GM told Piecoro.
  • The Rangers could make sense as a suitor for Upton, ESPN.com’s Buster Olney suggests (all Twitter links). The Diamondbacks could be interested in third base prospect Mike Olt and the Rangers could like the idea of adding outfield depth with Josh Hamilton headed toward free agency.
  • Upton has no-trade protection that allows him to block deals to some big-market teams, including the Yankees, according to Olney.


238 Responses to Justin Upton Rumors: Wednesday Leave a Reply

  1. Does Olney have better information than what’s on Cot’s contracts? Cots has Upton’s no-trade protection as Cleveland, Detroit, KC, & Oakland.

    • mrsjohnmiltonrocks 3 years ago

       Sounds like he meant to say ‘small’ market teams, although Detroit has a rather high payroll and strong attendance.

    • ImperialStout 3 years ago

      His no trade list changed after the 2010 season. It’s unclear if those teams are still on it.

  2. jammin502 3 years ago

    With most of the Cubs OF prospects still 2 or more years away, I think they should have interest in Upton.  Garza would probably help that Dback rotation this year and next and Reed Johnson or David DeJesus could also be included for the OF depth.  Not sure what is needed all around, but it could make sense for both teams.  Castro, Rizzo, and Upton would look pretty good in the lineup that is building.

    • mrsjohnmiltonrocks 3 years ago

       I like Upton.  I think he’s underachieved.  He could be a real bargain to a team that is patient with him and tries to help him fix whatever it is that makes him so streaky.  Do the Cubs have a coaching staff that can do that?  Are the fans willing to allow him the time to figure things out?  If you can say yes, I’d tell you to trade for him.

      I do think Upton needs out of Arizona in the worst way.  He’s constantly said to be on the trading block, he’s getting booed at home, and he reportedly has a ‘difficult’ relationship with the manager.  A trade would benefit all parties.

      Personally, I hope he ends up in Toronto.  They specialize in working with players like him that have frustrated their organizations.   I just don’t see a trade match with them though.

      • Patrick Beliveau 3 years ago

        If Arizona truly is not looking for prospects, and instead want bonafide major leaguers it will be hard to pull of a trade with Toronto… but there is maybe only 2-3 teams that could put together an enticing package like Toronto can… 

        Arizona apparently has interest in Hechevarria, so we could start there… add Gose to the deal, and maybe someone like Travis Snider or Thames (personally id rather see Thames go) then there would surely need to be a top pitching prospect out of Nicolino, Syndergaard or Norris, and then you could add a couple C+/C prospects and it might be worth it for Arizona and not damage Toronto’s farm too much…

        This trade doesnt offer the major league 3B that Arizona desperately needs, but it adds more pieces to Arizona’s farm that they could move those pieces to acquire someone like Headley from San Diego… 

        Im still of the belief that the Jays need arms, even if all the guys on the DL were back, they’d still need arms, but if i were AA i wouldnt be interested in mortgaging the future for a rental like Greinke or Hamels and i wouldnt be willing to bet on Garza being dominant in the AL East again when he’s struggled with in the NL a bit this year.

      • cyberboo 3 years ago

        Arizona is looking for major league talent for Upton and the Jays have three players they could flip for him.  Arencibia, Escobar, and Snider, with perhaps a McGuire or Jenkins thrown in.  They are major league players and it wouldn’t disrupt the team in the least.  Three players that could help the Diamondbacks now and it basically is a wash salary wise.  Hech then takes over for Escobar, Mathis handles the catching until D’Arnaud returns from his injury, and the Jays fill their left field void, where Snider would probably outhit all three of the players combined in Arizona, finally reaching his potential at 23 year of age. If Arizona wants a Gose or Marisnick added, they will give up Skaggs or Bauer in return, in addition to Upton.

    • I like the thought, but I personally wouldn’t want Arizona to make this trade, I actually wish they would keep Upton and treat him right, but that probably wont happen. If they do trade him, they have to fill in holes immediately, starting pitching and the outfield are where the depth of this team currently lies. 

  3. Buyers beware much?

    Trading Upton to win tell me either Upton is

    A. Injured
    B. A club house cancer
    C. A immature kid, whose mentally lazy, and isn’t willing to improve his game

    • tomymogo 3 years ago

      yeah so weird, but D-backs management isn’t exactly normal, they just keep getting weirder and weirder. He was supposed to be a perenial mvp candidate, and he was last season. I think it has to do more with the fact he will make 38.5 million in the next 3 years and they don’t want to say they don’t have the money

    • Lunchbox45 3 years ago

      #1.. you get medical records.
      #2… they won just fine with him last year.
      #3 if you can be an immature kid, mentally lazy and unwilling to improve, and have the success he already has..

      well then sign my team up.

      • Encarnacion's Parrot 3 years ago

        Jays have already made multiple trades for players that fit this mold, and has turned out alright so far (even though Escobar isn’t having the best offensive season thus far).

        • Lunchbox45 3 years ago

          escobar had a bad month but he’s looked right on par the last 2.

          I still love that deal though. sign an aging free agent ss and flip him for a young controllable one.

          all day.

      • RipeOn 3 years ago

        agreed.  My lemon sense is tingling by the mere fact that they’re considering trading him, but if it has anything to do with reasons 2 and 3, then the D’Backs are morons and if I’m some other team I can’t pounce fast enough.

        This would definitely be a classic Blue Jays move.  

    • YanksFanSince78 3 years ago

      I think it’s a darn shame the way players like Upton are treated. Granted, I don’t live in AZ. Granted, they don’t get a lot of ESPN time. However, I’ve read several articles about Upton from local sports writers and while he might be classified as an enigma by some NONE of them used words like lazy or cancer. 

      Part of it I think is that he had such early success in his career, breaking into the league at age 19 and we’ve seen flashes of brilliance. How about maybe the kid is just struggling as opposed to being lazy??? If he were a problem then it would shock me that it’s something that would’ve just manifested itself this season. I doubt the Dbacks would’ve locked him to the contract if he had attitude problems. 

      Gibson was one of the hardest grinders of the game when he played and I doubt he would bite his tongue if there were motivational issues about Upton. Obviously he won’t say them now since he’s on the block but I think we would’ve known more about it earlier.

      To an extent, I think young “naturally gifted” athletes like the Uptons, Delmon Young’s, Kemp, Phillips, Cano and Reyes kind of get these HUGE expectations heaped on them because people expect them to be the next Willie Mays because they see the 4 or 5 tool talents and the early success. I think when that success doesn’t comes as expected it’s a lot more convenient to see a lazy player who is struggling to meet expectations rather than a person who maybe has reached his ceiling, maybe hasn’t figured out how to adjust to the adjustments or maybe was just rushed.

      Granderson escaped that label to a large extent because he had such an exuberant personality. I heard SOME rumblings about his attitude, but no where near the “cancer” or “lazy” levels. A player shouldn’t have to be such an immensely bubbly personality to avoid the tag of being lazy or a bad attitude though. Some players just don’t have in them what Grandy might have. Some are quiet, reserved and maybe even a little guarded of the media.

      The fact that Upton is all of 24 yo and has had 2 above average seasons already and was a contender for the MVP last year but is seen as disappointing by some is amazingly bizarre.

      If/when Trout or Harper hit the wall I wonder what they’ll be labeled as?

      • dbacknation 3 years ago

        Thats exactly it. Personally, living in AZ and talking with other dback fans, the vast majority DONt see Upton as lazy, and definantely not a cancer. Far from that.
        I think the fans and FO are tired of his inconsistent production. Are the expectations too high? Possibly. But at the same tume, a 1st roumd pick, legit 5 tool player with 6 seasons under his belt should have better numbers at the half. He’s also been plagued by injuries from time to time, and as the face of the franchise, again, people expect more. Kubel, Hill and Goldschmidt are completely outplaying Upton. Is a .300 30 100 line from Upton asking too much? Personally, no. so when he’s on pace for just 14 HRs and 60 ribi’s, you can see why theres frustration from the fans and owners alike. The “he’s young, still learning the game” excuse can only last so long. Again, 6 seasons. Maybe he’s just exactly what you see.

        • YanksFanSince78 3 years ago

          If someone wants to say “trade him because he isn’t playing up to his potential or he’ll never be more than what we see now” I could accept that even if it’s premature to give up on a 24 yo. I just don’t like the idea of him being called lazy BECAUSE of the results. If he dogs it on running out a play or something then that’s another story. 

          • rundmc1981 3 years ago

            We had the same problem with Heyward last year. I do know Heyward had some injury issues lingering, and I don’t know if Upton is having many lingering issues with his shoulder/thumb, but the spotlight was on Heyward and he’s worked through them. They are different in the respect that Upton has had a lot more success for a longer period of time, but both have been successful at an early age. 

            I would hope ATL would provide that change, if Upton needed one, that would allow him to clear his head, and just go out and play. To me, even though there’s a lot of risk involved, I find it fascinating if Bourn left via FA, we got Justin and signed BJ to play together. I wonder how they’d play together. Could they motivate and hold each other accountable? Would be interesting having an OF comprised of Heyward and the Upton bros. 

          • melonis_rex 3 years ago

            Would be interesting having an OF comprised of Heyward and the Upton bros.

            that would just be amazing. i would have a reason to care about the NL.

            A guy in the conversation for best RF in baseball this year, Justin freaking Upton who’s just awesome, and BJ Upton who’s awesome in CF.

            Yes. Just yes.

          • rick staley 3 years ago

            No way in Dixie does the Upton bros. join Heyward in the OF in Atlanta. Remember, B.J. actually has displayed a lazy approach on defense on several occasions.

             Justin has been pressed into a role he hasn’t been ready for due to a lack of good veteran leadership for which he can follow. I would welcome him to Hotlanta, but not his prima donna brother B.J.

            Also, who would be asked to play LF (considered the lesser of the 3 OF spots)? Too much ego there.

          • rundmc1981 3 years ago

            Rick, I was just stating a hypothetical. It is possible though. ATL has been linked multiple times to BJ Upton in the past. Even more so than guys that have more connections to ATL like Josh Willingham.

            Yes, BJ Upton has had some hustle issues in the past, though I’m not a psychologist, I wouldn’t let that deter me from considering signing him – if we had Justin Upton on the team, had little CF depth in the minors, and Bourn bolts. BJ has a high ceiling and even in his down years still shows speed and great defense. I would hope a new city (with better fans), new team, new opportunity, and a new contract with his brother could allow him the opportunity to flourish. 

            What’s the CF alternative if Bourn bolts? An aging Shane Victorino (32), Melky Cabrera, who’ll get his from SF? Been there, done that. Matt Lipka…Todd Cunningham…please…

          • dbacknation 3 years ago

            There have been a few times when he dogs it in the OF. But not enough for me or anyone else to call him “lazy”. Another thing he does that SOME fans have issues with,is his gum chewing. Sounds silly right? I agree. But fans hate to see Upton at bat with RISP, only to strike out or hit a routine groumd ball or Infield pop up. Then the cameras (TV), will zoom in on upton, only to see a unfazed reaction, as he starts to blow bubbles and pop them, slowly walking off the field. Again, silly reasons by fans, but at tbe same time, showing some emotion or disgust at his efforts or at least, not acting so “ho-hum”, would be more appreciated by the fansI guess.

      • Pretty much nailed it. Just because Upton can make the game appear easy at times, never means that it actually is. People see him track down balls with ease, but when he doesn’t get to one, he is lazy and should have tried harder. They refuse to cut him slack out here, it doesn’t make any sense.

      • Richard Ellard 3 years ago

        Smoke some more Granderson didnt have any label in Detroit like your trying to say!!!

    •  I’m a lifelong Dbacks fan (lived in AZ since 91) and Upton is my favorite player on the team. I don’t believe he is any of the above. I can’t understand why the Snakes would be willing to deal Upton when he has yet to hit his prime, but has already put up MVP type numbers. Just doesn’t make sense.

      He did have a thumb injury that was bothering him earlier in the year, but I think that is healed. There was a rumor going around on here that his left shoulder is hurt. Not sure where that started, but he hasn’t had a problem with his left shoulder all year.

    • Thomas Wilson 3 years ago

      true but this is the same team that traded Carlos Quentin and Carlos Gonzalez within a few years of each other

  4. Ron Loreski 3 years ago

    I’m so tired of every player “being a fit for the Rangers”. They can’t have every available player.

    • oz10 3 years ago

      it is only because of farm system that we match up with everybody. The Rangers are the easy pick to say that so-and-so would go here because we can afford to trade our better prospects and still be good several years down the road. But it is getting out of hand, we can’t get everybody and not everybody is a great fit.

    • radicalhenri 3 years ago

      well, soon they won’t be a fit for anyone because they’ll have sick players at every position. i’m a yanks fan and the rangers are insanely good.

  5. Brandon Stubbs Calvert 3 years ago

    What about Upton and Drew for Andrus, Olt and mid to low OF or P prospect?  I think it makes sence for both clubs.  Texas gets upton for years to come as well as still has a SS in the majors until Profar is ready, as well as keeps dbacks in contention this year and another couple good prospects.

    • Lunchbox45 3 years ago

      There is no way the Rangers move Andrus at this point. They will eventually, but not in the middle of a season.

  6. randyfastman 3 years ago

    would love to see a three team trade with the Phils getting Upton, someone else getting Hamels and the DBacks getting prospects

    • mmiller54 3 years ago

      With KT looking to win now… do you think the Phils would do Pence and Hamels for J Up.

      Another idea:

      Rangers get Hamels
      Phillies get Upton and Neil Ramirez
      Dbacks get Pence, Olt, and Perez.

      I wonder if this is too high of a price for the Phil’s and Rangers but this is just an idea.

      • I think the Phillies like Pence.  Not sure they’d be willing to deal him, unless it were for a clear up-grade.

        • mmiller54 3 years ago

          Maybe this would work better:

          Dbacks get Pence and Olt
          Phillies get Upton and Perez
          Rangers get Hamels

          This allows Rangers to not give up Ramirez and the Phillies to get a better prospect in Perez. Dbacks get 3b of future and Pence would help the run for this year. Likely, this would hinge on whether or not the Phillies would move Pence to try to get Upton’s youth and superstar potential.

          • Dylan 3 years ago

            Why would the Rangers trade Olt and Perez for Hamels?

      • randyfastman 3 years ago

        I think there is something to work with there…. just needs tweaking.  maybe Rangers get Hamels and a dbacks prospect, Phils get Upton and Ramirez, and Dbacks get Victorino and Olt…. i don’t know, just think Upton would look good in red pinstripes

    • BustBigDieHappy 3 years ago

      If were going to do this three way deal, I think the Bucs are the logical 3rd team. But the Dbacks would have to part with a little bit more.

      Phillies get Upton
      Dbacks get Tallion and Dominic Brown 
      Bucks get Victorino, cash considerations, and Joe Saunders 

      The Pirates are in need of some offense and a pitcher because, lets face it, Bedard will probably get hurt. Victorino and Saunders fit that mold. If the Phillies want Upton, they’ll have to give up Brown and pay the rest of Victorino’s contract to do so. And Arizona gets an outfielder to replace Upton immediately and a prospect with a very high ceiling. This probably won’t work (Arizona gets shafted a bit) but its a start. Plus the Phillies keep Cole.

      • Rangersalchamps 3 years ago

        Bucs need to get more back if they are giving up Tailon. Thinking instead of Victorino, Pence would be better.

        Phillies also need to give up more for upton. Biddle or May

      • mmiller54 3 years ago

        I think Pittsburgh could get Upton in a two team deal if they wanted. Maybe Tallion,Alvarez, Marte and the Dbacks throw in Saunders or Drew.

        • Zico 3 years ago

           You’re crazy if you think Pittsburgh would include Alvarez.

        • BustBigDieHappy 3 years ago

          I doubt they would give up Alvarez or Marte. Tallion has been rumored as of late but I haven’t seen any indication that Alvarez or Marte are even on the table, and for good reason.

        • ericc123 3 years ago

          Who would play 3rd base for the Pirates if you traded Alvarez?

  7. Start with Nunez, Bichette/Austin, Banuelos, Laird, if you need to give more take out bichette/austin and throw in williams

    •  Hahahahahahaha.  For a guy whose performance has never lived up to the hype?  Neither of the Upton brothers have come close to their potential, although Justin’s career numbers are a lot more attractive than B.J.’s.  You can have 2, maybe 3 of those guys.  And Banuelos is off the negotiating table but I’ll discuss the other “Killer B”–Betances.

      • YanksFanSince78 3 years ago

        I do NOT think the Yanks should focus on Upton at all BUT let’s be clear…..Bets value has plummeted and to an extent, so has Bans. Bans may still be a top 100 prospect because of his ability, level and age but he just has not been able to put together 1 solid season yet. He’s averaged about 75 IP over the last 3 years and his control issues still have to be corrected. 

        I personally still value him as close to an untouchable but I certainly don’t expect others to feel the same way. His trade value is low right now.

        Any deal for Upton would almost absolutely need to include Mason Williams and one of Sanchez/Bans/Austin and one or two of Phelps/Warren/Mitchell/Gamel/Adams/Bichette.

        Too much for a guy who is more of a luxury for the Yanks. We can get by with Grandy, Swish, Gardner and possible free agent options for the next 2 or 3 years, be good in the OF and KEEP/USE our best 2 or 3 prospects for other needs/purposes. 

        • That offer is heavy, more likely, I could see

          Nunez, Bichette, Adams, Bans, and maybe almonte/cojo/gumbs

          Yankees keep their top 2 position prospects, and still give something of value. It might not be what the DBacks wanted, but I just don’t see another team giving a better offer.

          • YanksFanSince78 3 years ago

            As mentioned, I don’t think Upton should be a priority for us BUT I just don’t think Bans can headline a deal for Upton right now. Still a top prospect in my mind but last year was not an impressive year for him and the fact that he’s been injured most of 2012 doesn’t help his value. In addition, even if it isn’t fair, the recent failures of Betances and Brackman stains Bans as well and casts doubt on him too.

            Just don’t see a deal happening unless the Dbacks can get Mason Williams and one of Sanchez/Austin/Banuelos  in the deal. I thought maybe a David Phelps would mean something but they aren’t exactly hard up for pitching prospects. Phelps may have value simply because he’s mlb ready. 

            Maybe…Maybe…Mason + Phelps + Bichette + other

          • The NYY would be in a unique situation, since Arizona wants ML/ML-ready players AND value. The Yanks have a few guys that could step in and contribute (Nunez, Phelps, Warren, etc.), but they don’t represent nearly enough talent by themselves to get the deal done. It would also take a mix of really high upside guys like Williams or Sanchez. Banuelos is an interesting guy in that he is a high-upside guy near ML-ready, but he’s been injured. I would probably do Banuelos, Nunez, Phelps and either Williams or Sanchez, but that would really gut the system.

      • sharenski 3 years ago

         Please looks at J Up’s 2009 and 2011 numbers.

        • Thomas Wilson 3 years ago

          BJ Upton Career Road  .261/.342.416
          J Upton Career Road .268/.351/.362

          • kevinhua 3 years ago

             Upton does play in a lot of pitchers ballpark (petco, at&t, dodgers stadium,) and against very good pitchers of the nl west (cain, kershaw, etc.)

      • Did you look at his numbers last year? They’re absolutely filthy. And if he went to a veteran team where he would probably hit 6 and/or have protection, and Kevin Long (who’s widely considered the best hitting coach in the business) he would put up monster numbers every year. Not to mention YS3 is tiny. 

        The package is probably light, Nunez could be a ML SS. Everyone knows Laird is just a stop gap until someone better comes along, because he hasn’t showed much success recently, Bichette/Austin are both in A ball, and could easily not pan out as planned (but it’s worth mentioning that Austin DID make it to the high 30s in the latest prospect rankings). and then you have Banuelos who is a legit prospect and TOR arm. You have to give something to get something and Betances has nearly ZERO value right now. Honestly, if the DBacks did accept that offer it would be the biggest steal in recent years.

      • Rangersalchamps 3 years ago

        Dude Bans and Bet have both been bad this year. At this point you would be lucky to turn Betances into a reliever. Rumors of Banuelos becoming a reliever also. You don’t trade Upton for relief pitchers.

    • BustBigDieHappy 3 years ago

      If the Yankees ever want to get under that luxury tax in 2014 they need to hold onto Nunez and especially Mason Williams, Romine, and Sanchez and one of the killer B’s. Upton costs too much; he’ll make about as much as Swisher will get in free agency and the Yanks have already said they have no dog in the Swisher fight. The only way this would work is if Arizona would absorb most of the Upton contract, but theres no way thats going to happen. 

  8. BustBigDieHappy 3 years ago

    Can someone explain this to me, because I still don’t understand the Arizona front office on this one. Isn’t Upton the “face of the franchise”? His 2009 and 2011 seasons are more than enough evidence to convince Arizona to ink an extension… Next thing you know Ian Kennedy is going to be on the chop block. 

    • mmiller54 3 years ago

      Upton has been booed by fans in Az. He later said he didn’t care what the fans think of him. He alienated the fan base. Moreover, he has looked bored and uncaring this year. He makes frequent boneheaded mistakes (he has been picked off like 5 times this year. However, he is still a superstar talent and the Dbacks would only want to move on from him for a very good package. He hasn’t burned enough bridges for the Dbacks to really want to move him for a mediocre package, but for the right package, they would get rid of the headache.

      • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

        sounds like he was alienated by the fan base

        • mmiller54 3 years ago

          If you have seen Upton and his boneheaded mistakes, lack of caring, and struggling this year you would boo him too. He has not performed for the first half. I do believe he will return to being a great player and the Dbacks should get excellent value if they move him. If not, hopefully he returns to form for a second half run after the all-star break which is hopefully clearing his head.

  9. as a Braves fan I would much rather keep Prado and pitching prospects. If they got Upton that means Bourn is gone and they have no one to play LF/3B. If they keep Prado then they can try to resign Bourn. If they can’t sign Bourn then get a CF, but Prado gives you immense position flexibility. I wouldn’t like this trade at all for the Braves

    • inkstainedscribe 3 years ago

       I would imagine Prado can get close to $10 million in arb after this season, which eats into the budget for signing Bourn. If they can sign him, which is far from certain.

    • 14 Rocks 3 years ago

      I wouldn’t like it either.  For one thing, Prado has out performed Upton so far this year and the Braves are trying to contend.  Also, I don’t trust that Upton’s shoulder is healthy, otherwise they wouldn’t be trying to trade him.  Finally, the Braves need a SP plus a couple of bench upgrades.  Their OF is already the best in baseball so don’t fix what isn’t broken.

      • rundmc1981 3 years ago

        Agreed, but this is one of the things a cash-strapped team (in relation to a big market team) needs to consider. Yes, we have almost $40M coming off the books, but with Kimbrel/Hanson/Prado/Jurrjens going to arbitration paydays, Bourn going to FA, and pricey options from McCann/Hudson, ATL can’t afford to do everything it wants to do. Upton’s extension is just what ATL needs in hopes that we’re buying low and he needs the proverbial change of scenery. 

        If we did trade Prado, we’d have to look for a 3B…and that’s one of the shallowest markets going into free agency. At least having Prado allows us to focus on more fruitful positions like CF (where there’s a lot of talent even if Bourn bolts, including Justin’s bro, BJ) and LF.

        • Prado’s bat is hot this year and he is doing everything that is asked of him (offensively and defensively). I hate to always see his name on the trading block bc he is so versatile and never complains. His work ethic and attitude are infectious to a clubhouse and although he’s not got a huge power bat he is definitely one of the most undervalued guys in MLB

          • That’s why it makes sense for the Braves. They can sell high on Prado and buy low on Upton. Is Prado going to significantly improve in his career? Probably not. He’ll probably be a very good player for awhile. Upton? He may stay the same, but he has the potential to have a 5+ year run of doing exactly what he did last year… or more.

          • rundmc1981 3 years ago

            Undervalued? You likely won’t be tuning into his arbitration hearing at the end of the season when he’s raking in more than Upton’s $6.75 million. I’m all for not disrupting the team’s cohesiveness, but a Prado-headlined deal for Upton is one that we can’t pass up because Prado is a FA after next season and arbitration until then. Wake up! Prado’s expensive.

    • Agreed:  Adding Upton and losing Prado would essentially be a lateral move for Atlanta (especially given Prado’s career-year underway at the plate).  On top of that, you have to understand that Chipper is probably going to miss another 20 +/- games down the stretch, and Prado is his primary backup option.

      If they could figure out a way to add Upton without subtracting Martin, then okay.  But I expect that’s not gonna happen.  Starting pitching first.

  10. Colin Christopher 3 years ago

    This would be an amazing deal for the Braves to make. A Braves offense with Heyward and Upton in the 3 & 4 spots for the next five years could make up for a lot of pitching deficiencies.

    • wouldn’t an offense with Prado, Heyward and Bourn be even better though?

      • inkstainedscribe 3 years ago

         Yes, if they’re willing to pay for it. Bourn is going to demand $12-15 million a year, and somebody will give it to him.

        • so spend $12-$15 on Bourn instead of Upton. I don’t see where a trade makes sense here. Upton is younger, sure, but will he ever reach is full potential?

          • inkstainedscribe 3 years ago

             The trade provides certainty, that’s all. The Braves will set a ceiling on how much they’ll commit to Bourn, so they risk losing him entirely if they’re outbid. I love the current OF, but there’s no guarantee you can keep it together.

          • rundmc1981 3 years ago

            Regardless of what happens, that OF will HAVE to change going into the offseason. Even if they don’t trade, Prado will move to 3B unless they find someone a better fit – and considering 3B market is extremely shallow, they probably get that.

            So, you can upgrade with a proven young bat going into his peak years and affordable…or stay with Prado. Frankly, if they aren’t thinking about an extension already with Prado, they should think about trading him. His arbitration years are costly.

      • not neccesarily. if we could resign bourn then that would be the best OF in the MLB. its do able to re sign bourn with upton in the OF. just wouldnt allow for a high profile pitcher. 

      • Colin Christopher 3 years ago

        Sure, but they aren’t going to win the bidding war for Bourn. Also, Prado will be a free agent after 2013, so how much will they have to shell out to keep him? Why not trade him plus some prospects for cost certainty now?

  11. inkstainedscribe 3 years ago

    The Braves have the pitching depth to deal, and Upton would help stabilize the budget for the next three years. Prado is going to cost a lot of money in a hurry, and whether or not the Braves deal him, they still have a hole to fill at either 3B or LF going into 2013.

    • rundmc1981 3 years ago

      I wish we had the resources to trade for Upton and Headley (in different deals, of course), but that might take the farm.

  12. I think the Diamondbacks would prefer Andrelton Simmons, even though he’s currently injured. I think Simmons, Delgado, Constanza and a some lesser pitching prospect would be a good deal. 

    • inkstainedscribe 3 years ago

       Simmons ain’t going nowhere.

      • Absolutely this.  Barring disaster, he’s the Braves SS for as long as they can afford to keep him

      • tomymogo 3 years ago

        That guy is untouchable

        • Untouchable for a guy like Upton? Why?

          • drumzalicious 3 years ago

             you must not have seen him play.

          • And how much have you seen him play? 125 ABs? I looked at his minor league numbers and I see nothing to be blown away by. Especially not for a guy like Justin Upton. In fact, BA had him as the 4th best prospect in the organization this year. So, again, why is he untouchable?

          • Colin Christopher 3 years ago

            You saw his minor league OFFENSIVE numbers and saw nothing to be blown away by…but baseball players have to play defense, too. In only 33 major league games, he’s saved more runs with his glove this season than every other shortstop in baseball except Brendan Ryan. If he can be even an average hitter, he’s worth his weight in plutonium.

          • Jay212033 3 years ago

            1. Have you seen the guy play.

            2. He’s our best SS and maybe one of the best in the league in the field.

    • nm344 3 years ago

      That’s probably not enough.  And why even bother including Contanza in your post?

    • craigkimbrelfan 3 years ago

       Dude they can have Constanza and his duplicate clone Durango.  Don’t think Simmons is going anywhere, though.  That is unless somehow Drew is worked into the deal. 

      Prado, any one of the young pitchers (Delgado, Teheran?), Pastornicky and Spruill? 

    • rundmc1981 3 years ago

      Even if Simmons was available – which he isn’t – he’s injured now for 4-6 weeks and many reports are that Upton could move before the deadline. ARZ has too many offers on the table even to consider a deal that would be headlined by an injured guy with a lot of potential. (Actually, that might be fitting considering many think Upton is injured (shoulder)). 

      If Simmons is involved, no go.

  13. inkstainedscribe 3 years ago

    From the D-Backs’ standpoint, they should love Prado. He would win a batting title in that ballpark.

  14. BraveCrowe 3 years ago

    As special of a Talent Upton is, This trade doesn’t make sense to me.

    Why in the world would Arizona want this guy gone so bad? I understand there may be some issues with management and the player–however they could work that out. To me it screams of some underlining problem, such as a chronic shoulder injury or something people outside the organization isn’t aware of.

    But to me, it seems like this would create more holes for the Braves long term. We have our 3rd basemen of the future it seems in Prado (who has been our first half MVP) and we still have the option to retain Bourn. By trading Prado and any combination of our Pitching Prospects we are going all in this season, which is swell. But what happens this offseason when Bourn leaves and Chip retires? with what would appear to be a tight budget as it is, do they honestly expect to fill the vacancy at CF with Durango? would we have the flexiablity to go after Justin’s brother? then a whole other issues arises at 3rd base?

    As much as I would love to have Upton on this team, It seems to me that it would create more holes long term. and yes I realize that you have to give up good pieces to get a great piece, it still doesnt make sense to me though. But hey what do I know? I’m just a fan. 

    • rundmc1981 3 years ago

      Upton’s 2011 numbers don’t suggest there’s long-term damage. Just a buy-low opportunity for elite talent. He’s still just 25 and already has immaculate career numbers. He’s still got another 3-5 of his best years…and most of that could be with the same team. That’s unheard of. I wouldn’t consider trading Prado for many people, but considering the budget, we’ve got to consider being able to obtain someone of Upton’s talent and price. Prado will probably make $10M through arbitration this year, and unless we sign him to a lucrative extension, we need to consider our options.

      Frankly, Upton would be more of a deal than Prado – even if we are buying low on Upton. Yes, we’d have to go out and find a 3B solution. Fact is, Prado will be a free agent in another year and a half, so if he were the headliner of this deal, getting Upton for a few more years, we’d be looking pretty good.

      In my opinion we should take a flyer on Chase Headley regardless of what we do with Prado/Upton.

  15. craigkimbrelfan 3 years ago

    Oh my god…just thinking about it.  Upton, Bourn and Heyward in the OF at the Ted?  Bourn, Heyward, Upton, leading it off?  What?  Wow.  Wren…all would be forgiven if you land Upton.  I love Prado…but Upton is borderline elite talent.  

  16. cpappand 3 years ago

    Upton isn’t going anywhere people. Stop dreaming about what your team might do. This is just the media hyping up a story. Yeah he’s having a dissapointing year but it’s not that awful. He still has 80 games to play to make up for it. Ever since KT has been the manager everyone on the roster is open for trade discussions. PLease move on.

    • craigkimbrelfan 3 years ago

       Dude…people can dream and speculate. 

      • It’s not speculation, the gm is listening to offers

        • cpappand 3 years ago

          The GM listened to offers last season, too. You just didn’t hear about it because the media didn’t hype it up as much. He’s always been on the market ever since KT took over. In order to get him, a team will have to give us the moon for it to happen. So, like I said, keep dreaming. He’s gonna be a Dback until 2015, if not longer.

          • Thank you Mister Absolutes. You know this how? Are you KT in disguise? Chances are probably better than 50/50 if the D-Backs can land a 3rd baseman and/or SS and a good A prospect. 

  17. Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

    I like Buster’s stuff most of the time and I’m about to single out one piece in this article, so maybe the whole article isn’t obtuse, but…
     
    Why in the hell would the Braves send Prado AND prospects to the Diamondbacks for Upton. If he’s wanted out, there’s no reason to overpay for Upton.  Olney provides proof that every fangraphs fan out there has already known: 
     
    Martin Prado is the most undervalued player in the game.
     
    Furthermore, the Diamondbacks and Braves are mirror minor league organizations, with great pitching and not many hitters.  Their minor league needs don’t match up. Trading Prado during this season, when the Braves so desperately need roster flexibility, would be idiotic and would cost Frank Wren a job. 

    On that note, if the Braves could sell a few of their low-leveled hitters to the D’Backs packaged with one of Delgado, Teheran, or Minor (which I dont know why the Dbacks would want any of them), for Upton, I’d be happy as a kid at Christmas.

    • craigkimbrelfan 3 years ago

       Because Atlanta needs an affordable impact player? 

      • Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

        Prado’s been a higher impact player by a wide margin this year.  Why would the Braves trade the player with the better 2012 AND prospects for a more expensive player?  The purpose of buying low is that you get the player at a lesser cost, not more…

        • craigkimbrelfan 3 years ago

           Yeah but if Prado keeps playing at the level that you’re talking about, his arb numbers this year are not even going to be that cheap.  He settled at 4.5 this year after a career worst season where he played like 130 games.  Upton’s contract is like 6/50.  And he’s 25.  He had a MVP caliber season last year and he wasn’t even reached his prime.  We’re watching Prado’s ceiling now. 

          • Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

            Arb has hardly anything to do with production and more to do with service.  Prado, at the most, will cost 7.5 million.

        • Maybe because they’d be getting the better player? I agree, Prado is a very underrated player, but if you’re going purely on 2012, then it’s very short sighted. Upton still has a brighter  future (potentially) and is cost controlled for a number of years.

        • rundmc1981 3 years ago

          Upton makes $6.75 million this year. Prado, through arbitration will make somewhere around $9-10 million if he keeps up his current stats. If nothing else, he’ll make a few million more than Upton’s. So don’t get confused into thinking Prado is the cheaper player. Fear arbitration-eligible players in career years. Prado will be a free agent in 1.5 years and he’s not a long-term solution at 3B. Unless we can secure him for a lucrative extension, we should consider trading him if nothing else because he’s already more expensive than Upton.

          • Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

            Derek, you’re arb numbers are off. There’s no way Prado top 8 million next year.

          • rundmc1981 3 years ago

            Agreed, but my point is still the same. Prado will still cost more in 2012 than Upton and most likely in 2013. For 2014 he definitely will because he’ll be the 1st year in FA and will have an extension. Upton is 5 years younger and has already produced at a higher level and is more affordable. 

            I’m all about being loyal, especially considering how they’ve moved Prado around like a ping-pong ball, because of Chipper’s injuries, but there’s not many times you can provide balance in your line-up with an affordable bat. You can question Upton’s work ethics and drive, but I’m tired of ATL losing out by offering this excuse than taking a chance and motivating. And I don’t think it’s fair to say Upton is similar to his brother, BJ, in that respect.

          • Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

            I would never assume that Prado would cost the Braves more than 13 million a year.  Prado might be a 5/60 million dollar player, but probably more like 10m/year.

          • rundmc1981 3 years ago

            Upton will be cheaper because he’s already signed and Prado is going through arbitration. The only way Prado will be cheaper is if ATL signs him to an extension now or Prado underperforms. Upton is making $6.75 million this year and will be less than Prado’s arbitrated case that will bring in more than that.

          • Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

            Agreed, on next year, however, he will cost 28 million total the 2 years after.  Have ya looked at the Braves players on Cots baseball contract?  Half the team is eligible for arbitration during that time. 

          • rundmc1981 3 years ago

            Yes, but a power-hitting, 5-tool OF is worth that, no? I hope you know the market well enough to know that. Right now, ATL can’t afford a 5-tool OF unless he comes up through our system (i.e. Heyward). Upton’s team-friendly deal could allow us to have that. 

            ATL is going to need to sign some of these guys to extensions and decide who and how much some of them worth. I vote for signing Heyward/Hanson through, personally.

            As much as I like Prado, he’s a short-term answer at 3B. Upton is a long-term answer in the OF. We’ve been looking for a power-hitting OF for the longest time…and it’s staring at us in front of our face. If that means giving up Prado (and more) for that, then why not? Prado’s ceiling isn’t that high, his base-running bad and his arm bad. Yes, he’s gritty and is exactly what you want in a player, but let’s not act like this is Bryce Harper or Brett Lawrie here, people. 

  18. comment moved due to disqus reply fail.

  19. DerekJeterDan 3 years ago

    A package of 3 players? I think they could get a lot more than that for Upton.

    • MaineSox 3 years ago

      It depends on the three players I suppose.  If one of them is a young, talented major leaguer, or major league ready prospect, I could see them only getting three players (three really good players).

  20. Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

    Prado current WAR: 3.8   Upton current WAR: 1.2.
    An idea?  Extend Prado. That’s it. He’s the equivalent player, better teammate, cheaper, and harder worker, Upton’s prospect status from 2006 be damned.

    • craigkimbrelfan 3 years ago

       Upton has a higher career WAR…

      • CT 3 years ago

        From Baseball-Reference:
        Prado – 13.6 WAR
        Upton – 12.2 WAR

    • nm344 3 years ago

      Anyone with half a braincell would rather have Upton over Prado.

      • Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

        Explain?

        Furthermore, that wasn’t my point.  Sure, parallel Upton to Prado strictly on talent, and Upton is the better player. Parallel the 2 by cost, roster flexibility, and Prado’s ability to play 3rd (at a high level, I might add) next year, and their values arent far off.

        Also, Upton will cost an average of 13 million over the course of the next 3 years.  Prado makes 4.75m this year.  Someone mentioned above that Prado might make close to 10m next year, which is ludicrous.  He might make 7.5 (Bourn made right under 7 and is a good comp to Prado’s 3rd year of arb) and no way in hell will he come close to 10million.

        So, once again.  Give me educated reasoning as to why my half brain cell doesn’t make sense. 

        • Bombercules 3 years ago

          Because you’re relying on a theoretical Prado extension being worth less than the remainder of Upton’s contract. Not to mention Upton is four years younger.

          Younger player with better career numbers and more team control. The problem with this assessment though is that average 3B production has fallen off the face of the earth and that will make Prado more valuable. Unfortunately that also makes him more expensive. If Prado were extended, I would concede, but until then you’re not being reasonable.

          • Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

            I’m not relying on a theoretical Prado extension being anything…

            I’m relying on the 2 pitching prospects and 1 1/2 years of Prado being of more value and a cheaper cost than 3.5 years of Upton.

    • YanksFanSince78 3 years ago

      Wow….that’s the worst use of WAR ever. Let’s get past the better teammate and harder worker issue for a second since that’s basically heresay.

      Upton’s only issue is that he’s been inconsistent from year to year. However, when he’s on he’s a spectacular player whereas, at his best, Prado can’t compare.
       

      • Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

        How about WAR per 600 plate appearances?
        Prado: 3.32 Upton: 3.47

        Now tell me that Prado+2 pitching prospects (presumably 2 of Delgado, Minor, and Teheran) are worth 3.5 years of Upton.

        A 0.15 difference per 600 plate appearances…

        Again, that’s at least 11.5 year of cost-controlled players for 3.5 years of Upton.

        Again, that’s 11.5 years of salaries that probably won’t equate to 3.5 years of the cost for Upton.

        Also, it’s amazing how people value Upton’s 2011, discredit his current numbers which is what the Braves would value. Do you see me discrediting Prado’s terrible 2011? You never here of a team buying high on a player in a down year and that’s what the Braves would be doing in Buster’s scenario.

        The trade scenario is not smare.

        • Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

          Great…spelled smart wrong.  Bring on the chastisement.

          • Philip Marlowe 3 years ago

            I am so smart! S-m-r-t! I mean S-m-a-r-t!

        • rundmc1981 3 years ago

          Prado’s in for a big payday at the end of the season via arbitration. He’ll be a FA at the end of 2013 and unless we’ve extended him by then, we’ll be in the same situation we’re in now with Bourn. Waiting until FA hits and bid for them like everyone else without getting any compensation (because ATL is afraid of making a qualifying offer and they actually accept (thanks Rafael Soriano)).

    • Jason Richards 3 years ago

      War is a flawed stat. Prado and Upton are equivalent players? Wow im speechless, this comment is awful.

      • Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

        Show me where I said Prado is the better player?  I actually said that Upton is the better player but they have comparable WAR.  Add in 2 top pitching prospects and it’s an overpay that a mid-market team, like the Braves,  cannot afford.

  21. Jeff Snedden 3 years ago

    Sounds more and more like Upton isn’t going anywhere.  I’ll be shocked if Arizona can trade Justin Upton (arguably their best player on paper) and maintain a team that can still try to win in 2012.  That would severely limit the teams that would be interested in a trade, simply because everyone outside of the Cubs, Padres, Rockies, Astros, Seattle, Minnesota, and Kansas City are still legitimately in playoff contention.  If the D-Backs are looking to trade Upton for a package of major league players who can allow them to continue trying to win this year, those are the teams they have to deal with.  No other team is going to give up major league roster players in a deal, for fear of ruining team chemistry and whatever good things they have going on.

    One other team is in a tough spot – the Phillies.  They are basically out of the NL East race at 37-50, would have to play .700 baseball to even get back into the division talk, and are 10 games out of any WC slot.  However, they are a big market and they have the money and talent to be right back in the race in 2013.  I know Phillies fans don’t want to admit this, but 2012 is over for them.  That DOES make them a major possibility for a Justin Upton deal, though.  Start with Hunter Pence, who is signed through next season and is just 29 with a solid, all-star type bat.  Maybe Placido Polanco who is also signed through next year.  Add in Vance Worley, a young pitcher who has done very well in his ML time and is controllable thru 2018.  I imagine a B level prospect would go to Arizona too.

    That would clear some money off the books for Philly, give them a top-notch OF for the future to replace Pence.  For Arizona, they get rid of Upton and get Pence, who is a great legit ML all star player, a veteran infielder that can play 2nd or 3rd, and a middle rotation starter who can slide in tomorrow.

    If they want “big league return” for Upton, thats the type of deal they would be looking at.

    • nm344 3 years ago

      Its not a terrible idea, but the Phillies cannot afford to trade Worley.  You’re talking about either replacing him with an unproven AAA guy or having to spend 8-10 MM/year to replace his production through free agency.

      • canoflyzone 3 years ago

        Why would the Phillies deal Pence for Upton.  Pence is better, hands down.  the only thing Upton beats Pence on is a little speed.  Look the career numbers, look at what they’re doing this season and the pitching in the their respective divisions.  It’s no contest that Pence is a superior player.  It is Arizona that would have to add some major pieces to Upton in order to get Pence, not the other way around.

        • MaineSox 3 years ago

          Upton hits for more power, gets on base at a higher rate, is a better fielder, a better base runner, is cheaper, is under control for 2 more years than Pence, and is four years Younger.

          Other than all that yeah, Pence is better…

          • canoflyzone 3 years ago

            yeah 4 yours younger, that’a reason a player should be considered as better… here’s a little advice, check your stats before you post.  Pence’s career line is better in nearly every statistical category than Upton by a fairly significant margin considering Pence has less than a half season’s worth of ABs more than Upton.  I believe Upton has a an ever-slim edge over Pence in OPS and SBs.  Other than that, Pence blows Upton’s numbers away by enough to validate my statement and thensome, and prove your argument to be based on fiction. Upton has more power?  Check the stats.  So much more speed?  Perhaps, but check the stats.  On base more?  Probably not for long if you go by the numbers they are putting up this year and the nature of their career trends.  They are each in their 6th MLB year.  Pence bests Upton pretty much across the board.  Your argument is an epic fail!

          • notsureifsrs 3 years ago

            if you don’t think it matters that one of them produced his career major league numbers starting at nineteen, well, you probably aren’t likely to understand the explanation

          • canoflyzone 3 years ago

            Of course it matters, it just isn’t in my mind a valid centerpiece to the argument he is failing to make.  Age matters, but it does not mean that Upton is “better” at all.  I t just means he’s been more impressive for his age.  Pence has been rock solid and overall, well, quite frankly, better, that’s all I’m saying.  Not that Upton isn’t a great player himself, but for this armchair GM’s money, I would never be adding pieces to Pence in order to acquire Upton, which is the notion I was initially replying to.

          • MaineSox 3 years ago

            If the Phillies called the Diamondbacks and said “we’ll trade you Pence for Upton and a couple of prospects” Towers would laugh at them before he hung up the phone.

            If the Phillies offered Pence for Upton straight up they would get laughed at.

          • canoflyzone 3 years ago

            You are certainly entitled to your opinion guy. You just can;t make me agree with it.

          • MaineSox 3 years ago

            I can’t force you to be right.

          • MaineSox 3 years ago

            When that 4 year difference is from 24 to 28, yeah, it absolutely is a reason to say a player is better (a players peak doesn’t start until they are 26-27, so he’s still 2-3 years away from his peak talent, Pence hit his peak a year or two ago).

            Since the start of the ’09 season (what either of them did 4+ years ago is not indicative of what their current talent is, particularly in Upton’s case since he was a 19-20 year old at that point):

            Upton: .363 OBP, .202 ISO, 21.7 UZR (20 DRS, 22.4 TZL), 9.6 BSR runs, .367 wOBA, and 15.4 WAR in 2164 PA

            Pence: .348 OBP, .187 ISO, 1.4 UZR (12 DRS, -16.3 TZL), 5.6 BSR runs, .357 wOBA, and 13.7 WAR in 2351 PA

            And again, 3/4 of what Pence did was during his peak seasons, while Upton is still years away from even reaching his peak.  Pence’s career numbers that you so badly want to use started when he was essentially the same age as Upton is now.

            So I’ll say it again.  Pence is not, in away way shape or form, better than Upton.  He shouldn’t even be in the same conversation as Upton.

          • canoflyzone 3 years ago

            Well we’lll have to agree to disagree here because stats are just that, numbers that reflect what is counted.  I think that a player’s “prime” is a pretty variable concept, but that i is generally considered to start from 27 not end at 27.  Maybe you should ask around and look at some history.  Pence has been a rock sound sensation consistently since entering the majors.  Upton has had one big year and a couple decent years.  Yes, he has tons of potential, but is not a better player because of that potential, only a potentially better player, and marginally at that… certainly not worthy of elevating to some crazy elite status you seem to prop him up to such heights.  D-backs fan or what?  The post’s point was to refute the idea that the Phillies should put a package together to get Upton.  It is kind of pointless idea from my perspective since Pence is “currently” the better player, has been over the course of his career, and is entering his prime, not ending it.

          • MaineSox 3 years ago

            This is a nonsensical argument.  Upton has been better since the start of the ’09 season, even counting his below league average performance this year, and he is easily the better player going forward.  The fact that Pence was better if you look at performances from 4+ years ago wouldn’t make any reasonable person think that he will be better in the future.

            And this was a conversation about trade value, so the fact that Upton will continue to get better for the foreseeable future, is under control for longer, is cheaper, and is already better makes him a far more valuable trade piece.

            And saying that Pence is “currently” the better player is like saying that Daniel Nava is “currently” a better player than Adrian Gonzalez because he’s been better so far this year.  It’s a small sample size, and it’s quite obviously not the truth.

          • canoflyzone 3 years ago

            No actually what I’m saying is not like comparing Nava to AGonz.  Pence has a body of work.  You are clearly not being objective or just refusing to look at the hard numbers.  No one was discussing a straight up trade either.  It was in response to the idea of a package.  It’s ok, you don’t have to agree here guy, it’s just a baseball opinion.  Don’t get a God-complex on yourself about it… these aren’t the droids we’re looking for, move along, move along.

          • MaineSox 3 years ago

            I’ve given you the “hard numbers” and you ignored them, so now I’m making fun of how ridiculous you’re being.

          • canoflyzone 3 years ago

            If it makes you feel better somehow to think you are superior and have license to act a bit childish, then I guess good for you buddy, but the hard numbers are these… Pence bests Upton in RBI 462-333, in HRs 130-98, in Batting Average .292-.276, in Hits 932-663, in Sluggin, Extra Base Hits, and Runs.  I’m not sure how much more evidence needs to be put forth here, but I don;t really see this back and forth as productive anymore.  You clearly think quite a bit of yourself to fancy yourself as an authority with any cred beyond your own ego, and you the fact that you take such glee by trying to make fun of a total stranger’s opinion on a totally subjective topic is oddly hostile at it’s worst, and juvenile and boring at it’s best.

          • MaineSox 3 years ago

            RBI is a function of team quality, means nothing in the context of this conversation.

            HRs are not the only way to measure power, and are largely a function of what parks you play in, don’t mean much in the context of this conversation.

            Batting average is nice and all, but when a guy has an OBP 20 points higher despite his lower AVG the higher AVG doesn’t mean much.

            And you have to include Upton’s 19yo rookie season for any of the rest of that to even be true.  I shouldn’t have to tell you why his 19yo rookie season isn’t indicative of how good he actually is as a player 5 years later.

            Do you think Harper is going to be the same player he is now in 5 years?  No, he’s quite clearly going to be better than he is now.

          • canoflyzone 3 years ago

            In response to your other post, I see no need to continue it as a new thread so I will put it here. They don’t give out team awards for RBI buddy.  RBI is a mainstay statistic for an individual batter that serves as a cumulative qualifier of how batters perform with runners on the pads. In fact, RISP was born out of RBI. I think RBI is probably the most vital statistic of all stats for a non-top of the order hitter.  Average and HRs and the rest alone are not measures to make a singular comparison with… I didn’t say any such thing.  Pence has outshined Upton is all of these categories guy.  When one combines them together, I happen to think it points towards Pence having the better career thus far.  To RBI is not relevant is pretty ridiculous.  what game do you watch?  Personally, I follow Baseball.  I have no idea how Harper will perform.  Neither do you.  Neither does he.  It really has no relevance.  The future looks bright for him though, as it does for Upton, but there youth and potential does not make them better in my book until they actually achieve the statistics that warrant calling them “better”.  

          • MaineSox 3 years ago

            Right.  There’s no point arguing with someone who seriously thinks RBI is the most important statistic when judging a player’s talent.  (how often the guys in front of you get on base is an important part of how good you are?  have fun with that…)

    • blank_38 3 years ago

      But the Dbacks can win if they trade Justin Upton. They’ve proven that a .630 OPS from 3rd and a league average .754 from Upton can keep them 4 back in the West. If you can improve 3rd to be league average for 3rd baseman (.740), while also replacing Upton with someone who can produce at the same level Upton is right now then they feel the West is theirs for the taking. So why not try and fix your infield now and for the future? You have the replacement for Upton already in house (Parra) coupled with the boatload of prospects you’d receive and you would be playing for 2012 and beyond. 

  22. Jeff Snedden 3 years ago

    To add, personally if I was Towers and I was going to trade Justin Upton, it would be because I do not believe that I can contend any further in 2012.  I would deal him for the juiciest prospect package I could get.  Texas, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, etc. would all offer great packages that would be better for the D-Backs next year on forward.  But hey, I’m sure they have a plan.

  23. tomymogo 3 years ago

    Okay just Upton doesn’t make sense for ATL.

    Something like Ian Kennedy/Trevor Cahill, Justin Upton, and Ryan Roberts for Jair Jurrjens, Martin Prado, Randall Delgado, and Julio Teheran is something to consider.

  24. NYBravosFan10 3 years ago

    My problem with that proposal isn’t who we would give up or even what kind of attitude Upton would bring with him. My problem is working with Kevin Towers again. Remember he was the GM of the Padres through the whole Jake Peavy nightmare? No bueno.

  25. drumzalicious 3 years ago

    Not feeling that deal for the Braves at all. I’d much rather try to deal Uggla for prospects to flip to AZ for Upton. From there put Prado at 2B and Upton in LF.

    • tomymogo 3 years ago

      That’s not a bad idea, AZ could move Hill to 3B

      • James Attwood 3 years ago

        Hill isn’t a 3B by any stretch. He is purely a 2B. In the unlikely event the Dbacks actually do unload Upton, they will be getting a real 3B in the deal.

    • johnsilver 3 years ago

       Atlanta isn’t moving Uggla period without paying a huge portion of the 3/40m due to him from 2013-15. Uggs has no range to his Right and little to his left at 2b. He refused to move to 3b when with the Fish, though he has the smooth hands to play that position much better and the arm for it. When he wouldn’t stay there for a fair amount (3/36-40) they wisely moved him down the road.

      Uggs is a favorite of mine, tough as nails, but never was an even average defensive 2b and there is no way the Braves even get a filler to make a trade look “right” where they get another team to pay his contract… Unless they are able to convince him to make the switch to 3b finally.. he has the hands and arm, plus just enough range to his left to be fair at the position. His bat (power) would allow some team to find a suitable 2b to fill the huge defensive hole he would vacate and am sure the Braves are tired of seeing balls get by him..

      • Jeff 3 years ago

         I think the Mariners would take Uggla- they need hitting and he can DH.

  26. aaron44 3 years ago

    I don’t see why Martin Prado’s name continues to pop up in Olney’s rumors.  He’s the obvious successor to Chipper Jones at 3rd; Braves don’t have a big league ready prospect at the position.  If you move Prado for Upton, you open up two huge holes in the lineup moving forward.  Braves want to win now, in Chipper’s final year.  If Prado goes, the Braves will take a big step backward.  

  27. Muhammad Shukair 3 years ago

    Justin Upton to me is and will become a great-er player. It happens alot with baseball players they fall behind in counts early on in the season and it taxes them. He was chasing then he was looking for walks and personally think he is Mid Season form on queue. The fact is they are not going to get a player that will give them a better chance to win than J-Up but instead because Upton called out the GM he wants to dish him off. Which is just a dumb move.

  28. Marty Levinson 3 years ago

    Why in the heck would the Braves trade Prado for Upton?  Prado’s been a far more reliable hitter than Upton and isn’t much older.  He’s also likely capable of playing 3B once Chipper retires if the Braves decide not to go with Francisco or someone else.

    • MaineSox 3 years ago

      Read the comment I just made to xray91 about Pence because that all applies to Prado as well (minus the cheaper part).

      Quick recap: Upton = more power; better OBP, defense, base running; more team control; younger.

  29. notsureifsrs 3 years ago

    today i learned braves fans think martin prado is preferable to justin upton

    can’t really blame them, though. it’s not as if they’ve been able to see a young right fielder break out at an early age, struggle for a season, and then return to star form

    • MaineSox 3 years ago

      Phillies fans with Pence too.

      You know what?  I just decided the Sox shouldn’t trade for Upton because Nava’s better anyway.  I mean, just look at the seasons they are having!

      • randyfastman 3 years ago

        Phils fan here who knows that Upton > Pence, however I wouldn’t include Pence in a move to acquire Upton, rather would like to have an OF next year of Upton, Pence, D. Brown.

    • Jeff 3 years ago

       Prado is the swiss utility knife of star players- Can be an All-Star as a 2B, 3B, or LF.

      No reason to trade him for anyone who isn’t a genuine cost-controlled superstar. 

      • Lunchbox45 3 years ago

        Ah being an all star, the end all to how good you are conversation.

        Omar Infante, Hall of famer, All star.

      • MaineSox 3 years ago

        How much more of a “genuine cost-controlled superstar” can you get than Upton?

    • Defiancy 3 years ago

      You know what I learned today?  That someone can make a generalization about a fan base based on a few postings on a message board.

    • Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

      today you learned that braves fans think martin prado and two pitching prospects is preferable to justin upton. find one post on here that a braves fan says they prefer prado to upton.

      unifying a fanbase based on one braves fan’s opinion isnt wise. every fanbase has educated fans and uneducated fans.

      • esasc4 3 years ago

        much rather have prado in the dugout than upton, much rather have bourn in cf than upton, much rather have heyward in the of than upton. yea, we prefer prado to upton.

    • tomymogo 3 years ago

      Straight up, I make it, but + top pitching prospects(as in plural), no way

  30. Really annoyed that the Mets aren’t even mentioned in the Upton discussion. I know spending $$$ is the wilpon kryptonite but this is getting ridiculous. The Mets need a RH bat in the worst way and this guy is a perfect fit since he doesn’t only help NOW…he can be a big part of the future as well.

  31. thekidfromyesterday 3 years ago

    Do any of you want to see Francisco at 3B next year I hope not…

    • esasc4 3 years ago

      if you project juans numbers to 300+ ab’s he has a 18 hr 50+ part time season.

  32. tomymogo 3 years ago

    no because Upton is gonna make 38.5 million and Castro will make a combined 12-15 million over the next 3 seasons. 

  33. Philip Marlowe 3 years ago

    When Castro hits a walkoff grand slam in Game 7 of the 2015 World Series, I’m gonna make fun of you.

  34. tomymogo 3 years ago

    best defensively maybe……Castro, Asdubral, and Simmons might challenge that statement

  35. Profar could be brought up tomorrow though. I think that’s a good deal for the Rangers actually. You’re not going to get Upton by giving up scrubs.

  36. YanksFanSince78 3 years ago

    What about Upton makes him seem lazy? If anything, he was always seen as the opposite of his brother who, right or wrong, has seem to catch the lazy and unmotivated tag.

  37. oz10 3 years ago

    best overall. He has the best combination of defense and offense over anybody you just mentioned. And remember, SS is the premier defensive position.

  38. oz10 3 years ago

    Elvis has the second best WAR this year behind Ian Desmond with a 2.7. Your guys listed respectively have a 2.0, 2.1, and a 2.5 (I am gonna have to pay attention to Simmons so I cannot speak against him to have that war in such a short period. Wow, he looks like a young stud.)

  39. YanksFanSince78 3 years ago

    Ohhhhhhh….his “laziness” just comes across? Ok. Have you seen him not run out a ground ball? Did you see him jog after a ball when he should be running? It’s amazing how a tag can grow about a person w/o any real evidence.

  40. sharenski 3 years ago

     No that isn’t an opinion. Opinion’s are based on facts. You have a belief about Upton based on speculation.

  41. You sure are making uniformed statements about people you don’t know, and then when you get called out about it, proceed to make more uniformed statements. Rinse, lather, repeat.

  42. YanksFanSince78 3 years ago

    Ohhhh…so getting “defensive” is asking you what you’re basing your “opinion” of him on? Gotcha. 

  43. mmiller54 3 years ago

    Yeah, Victorino would just be a rental… I get that Pence is so tough to give up due to the way he has played. However, he is the glue that holds my deal together as he is under contract for a few more years.

  44. randyfastman 3 years ago

    they’re also giving up Hamels

  45. randyfastman 3 years ago

    It’s basically just Hamels for Upton for Olt… the rest is filler… and I understand Hamels would most likely be just a rental

  46. mrsjohnmiltonrocks 3 years ago

     I think so too.

    Toronto is not going to shy away from a player they like just because someone else couldn’t tap into their talents.  They aren’t going to judge the player by the reputation; they are going to see about him themselves.  They have really gotten some good talent into the organization with that attitude and I’d say it’s paid off.  You have to think some of those players are grateful too for getting a chance at a do over.

    The thing is, Upton has been in the D’Backs organization for several years now.  One of the hardest things for the player to do is change someone’s mind about him.  I happen to think that things are poisoned for Upton in Arizona.  He’s never going to be seen as good enough for Arizona no matter what he does.

  47. Rangersalchamps 3 years ago

    I wouldn’t. We sorta need to win the WS this year so the pain of the last 2 years is forgotten. Adding Hamels a WS MVP would enhance our chances of that. Olt is a prospect, he could flame out tomorrow.

    Phils get Olt, Odor
    Rangers get Hamels

  48. randyfastman 3 years ago

    you’re probably right, but stranger things have happened.  to be honest the Rangers weren’t the first team on my mind (despite all reports that they’re in on Hamels) when I posted this… Cardinals, Tigers, Angels, Dodgers…. but again It’s more I’d just like to see Upton in Philly

  49. Lunchbox45 3 years ago

    you proving him wrong is completely defensive of you yfs78

  50. Phillies lose an ace, and two of their best hitters for a 3/4 starter and an underperforming high ceiling OF. They don’t retool at all, they don’t even get a prospect back.

  51. nm344 3 years ago

    Umm. Phillies.   They don’t really gain anything.  Wandy Rodriguez has zero trade value.  And Upton over Pence is not a huge upgrade.  Victorino and Hamels are worth much more than that.

  52. baschkar 3 years ago

    Why would the rangers trade away so many controllable assets for a couple months of players that would be slight upgrades to the production coming back in the second half?

  53. rainyperez 3 years ago

    That is the most lopsided trade for the Diamondbacks.

  54. baschkar 3 years ago

    We gave up less for Cliff Lee. Martin Perez was ranked higher than Beavan when he was traded, and not much has changed. Olt is the #11 prospect, Smoak was #13 that year.

    Not sure if you’re saying the same thing as I am, but I decided to help out

  55. Dylan 3 years ago

    if had 2-3 years of control left, they wouldn’t be trading him for 1 or 2 prospects…more like 3 – 5 top prospects. Prob. an organizations 1-4 prospects.

  56. craigkimbrelfan 3 years ago

     But assuming you extend Prado and play him 3B…what kind of value is going to be out there for a LFer? 

  57. Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

    I didn’t say Upton wanted out.  I said “if” he’s wanted out. 

  58. YanksFanSince78 3 years ago

    Wow…the one thing that has been a huge obvious need might be obtainable and you let a slap and judy/great glove mlb’er with 125 ABs get in the way? Ok…

  59. craigkimbrelfan 3 years ago

     If you’re paying Prado next year and signing one of those guys, the economic value part of it pretty much is thrown out.  And I wouldn’t really want any of those…Swisher maybe…but not at the cost that he’ll demand on the market. 

  60. Prado + the cost of any of those guys > Upton for the next 3 years, significantly

  61. Dylan 3 years ago

    Melky as well…

  62. rundmc1981 3 years ago

    Easy for you to say with Jeter. We’ve needed a SS for longer than needing Upton. Frankly, though I’d push to acquire Upton, we don’t NEED him. We’re in the top 10 in MLB in runs scored and pitching has been our weakness this year. Upton is a risk in that we’d be trading a key cog (Prado) that provides us with flexibility having Chipper. I don’t see this happening in light of Simmons’ injury, if Prado is involved. Too much risk for a contending team.

    Now, if this were the end of the season, I’d say do it in a heartbeat. Upton is controllable, needs a change, only 25 (!!!), and there’s enough talented CF on the market that if Bourn did decide to chase the money elsewhere, we could easily find someone not as great, but just as good.

  63. Bombercules 3 years ago

    But he’s not, and I’m tired of the speculation.

  64. rundmc1981 3 years ago

    He did this last year when he actually should have sold on Upton if they’re not confident in him being a long-term piece. There’s a reason they won’t part with Parra, and I think this has been in the cards for a little while.

  65. Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

    I’m not saying Upton isn’t a hard worker.  I’m saying that Prado is the hardest working player in the game.  It’s insane what he puts himself through.

  66. How about Rangers get Hamels
    Phillies get Upton 
    Dbacks get Lowrie Holland, Julio Borbon Brad Lincoln and pick of Astros 3B
    Pirates get Pence Drew
    Astros get Taillion, Heredia

    Maybe this works in my head because I see Upton as a clear upgrade over pence going forward. Maybe I’m undervaluing Holland  as well?

  67. Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

    I admit, I’m not a huge Dbacks follower.  I follow a few of their players, Upton being one of them, along with Kubel (who completely fascinates me with his little rolly poley body).  I got the above speculation from reporters I follow on twitter.  Don’t take it personal.

  68. “I’m saying that Prado is the hardest working player in the game.”

    I think you lost any credibility you had with that statement right there.

  69. Bombercules 3 years ago

    I’m just mad in general, not at you obviously. After hearing about what Upton was going to do, getting to see this in person, and enjoying every minute of all of it, an undesirable (not even awful, just below average) half of a season threatens to ruin it all. I’m not sure if we can go back to the friendly dynamic that existed between Upton, the front office and the fans after this debacle, even if he isn’t traded.

  70. Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

    Right…Go look at Prado’s minor league career numbers, compare them to what’s he’s done a a Major Leaguer, and find a larger gap in any other offensive players numbers.  He went from an average Minor Leaguer to an All Star Major Leaguer, and he’s been consistent.

    Not to mention that, up until last year, played 80-100 games every offseason to learn different positions, does 2 cycle of P90X in the offseason, and is the first player at the stadium day in and day out from Spring Training to the last game.

    My “hardest worker to play the game” might be a bit short-sighted, but I follow baseball, and I know of none.  Chipper Jones follows baseball as well and he said that Martin Prado, by a wide margin, is the hardest working player he’s ever been around.

  71. tomymogo 3 years ago

    Ian Kennedy or Trevor Cahill would provide an improvement in ATL and they are under contract for the next 2-3 years. Jurrjens is a solid starter when healthy and is still under team control for 1 more year, so he would allow the D-Backs to remain in contention. Martin Prado is a very consistent player that will provide a definite improvement at 3B for Arizona, and Roberts will take the utility back up role playing for Chipper from time to time, and both Delgado and Teheran are major league ready starters that may or may not become top of the rotation starters. They have the stuff, that’s for sure.

    So yes, Justin Upton, Ian Kennedy, and Ryan Roberts for Jair Jurrjens, Martin Prado, Randall Delgado, and Julio Teheran

  72. Jason Richards 3 years ago

    Jurrjens sucks why would Arizona give up a star 5 tool player and two number 2 starters for 2 prospects, a often hurt number 4 starter and a utility player?

  73. nm344 3 years ago

    They can just keep Victorino and offer him arbitration.  If he accepts they keep him for 12 mil. If he signs elsewhere they can get 2 draft picks. 

    And you’re undervaluing what Hamels can get a little bit.  

  74. drumzalicious 3 years ago

     he’s been pretty amazing defensively. i believe it was Heyman who called him the best defensive player in the majors.

  75. tomymogo 3 years ago

    No I said 1 of (Cahill or Kennedy). Jurrjens doesn’t suck, when he is healthy, he is a very solid pitcher. Since he came back from AAA strengthening his knee he has pitched 25.1 innings and allowed 6 ER, that’s a 1.06 ERA, against the Red Sox, D-Backs, Cubs, and Phillies(with Howard, and Utley).

    The question is, why would you want to give up a 5 tool player and try to win anyway? 755 OPS, 10 for 18 SB, injury concerns, bad attitude…….You trade him last year when he was an mvp candidate, then his trade value would be really high and you could ask for a much more attractive package.

  76. Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

    Jason, seriously…this is the 2nd post you have misinterpreted.  Read people’s posts thoroughly before dissing their opinions.

  77. Let’s take the obvious guys off the table, like Chipper, Jeter, Pujols, Verlander, etc. Those guys not only have the talent, but the work ethic matched by nobody. Bryce Harper? The kid lives and breathes baseball. Robinson Cano went from being a secondary prospect to one of the best players in the game. Oh, and let’s not forget guys like Daniel Nava. Didn’t make his college team, got cut by an independent league team after a tryout after not being drafted and yet he’s somehow made it onto a big league roster. Can you honestly say that anyone works harder than him? I’m a Yankee fan and I have to give that kid props. 

  78. Philip Marlowe 3 years ago

    Technically, your statements are uniformed. That would make them incredibly consistent. Now, if they were uninformed, I think maybe Brynndyn Ratledge would have a point.

  79. They’ve already shown they have little interest in keeping Victorino past this year. He wants an extension and it looks like they aren’t willing to give him one. Undervaluing what less than half a year of Hamels can get? By helping to bring in Upton? How much more can you ask for than that???

  80. Ryan Cothran 3 years ago

    Aside from Cano who tore up the Minors at the ages of 21-23, your comparables arent comparable because they all were serious talents. 

    I’m a Braves fan and I’ll be honest, Chipper’s work ethic could use some work.

    Once again, I challenge you to find a player who had a similar Minor League career path of Martin Prado, then put it together like he did in the Majors.  It wasn’t raw talent.  It was drive…

    And Daniel Nava has always had a stick, even in the minors.  He still can’t field.  Martin Prado went from a below average hitter and fielder (for prospects) in the upper minors to above average at the Major League level. 

  81. johnsilver 3 years ago

     Have been watching this “hardest worker” for awhile and talent.. etc.. Answer has been so easy for the longest and you just won’t let it drop…

    Wade Boggs..

    Now.. Stop this nonsense and post about something that has to do with the topic please?

  82. nm344 3 years ago

    Not sure you understood.  Phillies do not need to trade Victorino.  If they just offer him arbitration they are in a win/win. If he accepts, they get a 3-4 WAR CF for 1 year at 12 Million.  If he signs elsewhere as a free agent, Phils get 2 draft picks.  A decent BP arm doesn’t trump either scenario.

  83. Prado is on pace to duplicate his 2010 season, but ‘no way in hell he repeats this’ ? He’s 28 not 38

  84. tomymogo 3 years ago

    Who plays LF, CF, and 3B in that scenario?

  85. MaineSox 3 years ago

    That’s not the way it works anymore, they can’t offer him arbitration.  They have to offer him a “qualifying offer” which is about $13M for one year (and considering he’s only making $9.5M this year he would certainly take it).

  86. nm344 3 years ago

    Yes, that’s exactly what I mean.  I’ve heard its around 12M, but either way Victorino for 12-13M on a one year deal? I’d take that in a hearbeat.  He’ll probably try to get a multi-year deal regardless.

  87. JMBY88 3 years ago

    who will he be playing for? certainly not the cubs

  88. Philip Marlowe 3 years ago

    You never know. Would you have predicted three years ago that the Twins, Phillies, and Red Sox would all be in last place (yes, yes, the Red Sox aren’t technically in last right now, but then again neither are the Cubs).
    When it comes down to it, all we need is for the kids on the farm to come out swinging and a few key front-office moves. Nothing is impossible in baseball.

    Also, don’t crush my hopes and dreams like that. I’m a Cubs fan – they’re all I’ve got.

  89. JMBY88 3 years ago

    I’d love to see the cubs win a world series, but they had their best team back with old bartman playing left bleacher….probably the closest they’ll get for a while Sent from my BlackBerry device on the Rogers Wireless Network

  90. James Attwood 3 years ago

    Upton is unlikely to find many teams with a higher drive and passion for success than the on-field management the Dbacks have. IF he was as devoted to excellence as all that, perhaps he would have shown up to Spring in better shape and not soft. Or perhaps he would have taken better instruction from Don Baylor on not pulling off of balls trying to hit 5-run HRs.

    As much as I would be okay with Upton leaving though, I seriously don’t see it happening.

  91. Andrew Cartwright 3 years ago

     What does a retired HOF in Wade Boggs have to do with this topic, or any topic for that matter.

  92. same goes for Bourn. What is he currently doing that’s not sustainable?

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