East Notes: Red Sox, Phillies, Nationals, Strasburg

We'll be waiting to see if any waiver trades take place between now and 11pm CDT, but a few clubs are already indicating that they won't be waiting near the phones.  Here's a look at the latest out of the AL and NL East..

  • With the waiver trade deadline closing in, a baseball source told Sean McAdam of CSNNE.com (via Twitter) that the Red Sox are "not expecting anything" in terms of a deal.  Earlier today we learned that they're reportedly in no rush to spend the money that has been freed up in the wake of their blockbuster trade with the Dodgers.  We also heard that Boston wouldn't be trading Cody Ross or Jacoby Ellsbury today.
  • Phillies GM Ruben Amaro also doesn't anticipate making any moves today, according to Jim Salisbury of CSNPhilly.com (via Twitter).  Outfielder Juan Pierre cleared waivers today and could be of interest to clubs as he is set to make just $160K for the remainder of the season.
  • Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports opines that Nationals General Manager Mike Rizzo could go back on the innings limit imposed on Stephen Strasburg if he publicly shifts the onus back to agent Scott Boras.  While such a move would hurt the Nats' relationship with Boras, Rosenthal believes that he wouldn't turn down their money for Michael Bourn or any other of his clients.


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25 Comments on "East Notes: Red Sox, Phillies, Nationals, Strasburg"


jb226
2 years 11 months ago

If I were Strasburg, I would walk into Rizzo’s office and say, “If you do this to me, I will never forgive it.”

I get what Rizzo is doing. In a lot of ways I even applaud it; he’s hurting his team’s chances to look out for a player’s long-term success (and of course his investment in that player). But oh gosh, can you imagine how you would feel if you were in Strasburg’s shoes? Can you imagine if the Nats won the World Series and you didn’t get to participate? You’re perfectly healthy, you’re a big reason they got to the playoffs at all, but you’re riding the bench hoping the rest of your teammates get the job done for you? That ring would mean NOTHING to me. That opportunity, that most players don’t even get once in their career much less get multiple times, would be wasted.

Even if the intentions were good, I would never forgive that — and I would make sure my general manager knew it well in advance.

Dan Franzen
2 years 11 months ago

He could certainly shut him down now and then use him in the postseason. I can’t see why that would be a problem. The Nationals have deep starting pitching and should wind up with the best record in the league. So then they’d play the wild-card winner. The rosters expand today, so they can call up someone else to be another starter, and use Strasburg as a spot starter (maybe 1 or 2) or even shift him to the bullpen, in a reverse of what the Braves did with Medlen. Then when the playoffs begin, he’d still be fresh with a lot less strain on that rebuilt arm.

That would seem like a good compromise, right?

dc21892
2 years 11 months ago

If he shuts him down now that’s it. You don’t just shut a player down and in a month ask him to ramp it back up to exactly what he was doing before. Thats how injuries happen.

Dan Franzen
2 years 11 months ago

As I also mentioned, they could just use him less frequently as a starter or pitch him out of the pen. Injuries happen because you’re not in adequate shape or, in this case, overdo it. So reel him in and let him throw on the side to keep some sort of schedule.

Lefty_Orioles_Fan
Lefty_Orioles_Fan
2 years 11 months ago

Boras should have no say this.
Rizzo should consult with the Nationals pitching coach, Davey Johnson, their own scouts, Strasburg himself. The Nationals played a wonderful game tonight. Gio was brilliant against a good Cardinal team. The Braves lost in extra innings to the Phillies. Life should be good at Nationals HQ! Rizzo, Johnson, and Strasburg really need to come to some sort of resolution here. Or at the very least Strasburg has to accept that the Nationals see him as a long term investment, they want the best for him and that means they want him healthy for 2013, which means they shut him down for the rest of the season.
Look the bottom line is if this dude gets injured again, everyone is going to be upset.
Johnson has been to more than his share of rodeo’s I trust in his judgement whatever it may be. He’s an excellent manager and a good baseball man. Rizzo has done a great job putting this team together. They couldn’t have done it without the money, time and talent of the Lerner family! They better resolve this soon and keep Boras out of it!

bigpat
2 years 11 months ago

I am completely baffled about why the Nats didn’t skip his starts here and there during the regular season. They started out very well and were in first place for a long time. Why not go with a 6 man rotation for a while or pitch him every 10 days or so then get him going back again near the end of the season? The starts he is giving them right now are meaningless.

Phillies_Aces35
2 years 11 months ago

Roy Halladay thinks it might’ve been more beneficial for them to limit the amount of pitches he was throwing on the side. (They may be doing that… who knows besides them?) Like for instance, turning a 50 pitch bullpen session into a 25ish one.

I don’t want to link the article because then my post’ll get flagged but I thought he gave some good insight to what it was like for him as his innings increased, how he ended up over training and actually injuring himself the season after.

Obviously he didn’t have Tommy John but still.

bigpat
2 years 11 months ago

Yes, pitches thrown is so much more important than innings pitched. If he is throwing 80-100 low stress pitches, going 7 innings or so, that is much better than going 5 or 6 innings and throwing 100 pitches. Very good point about his side sessions as well.

Fifty_Five
2 years 11 months ago

If you’re baffled then just look it up…

Rizzo has said multiple times that when he tried 6 man rotations in the past (like with Zimmermann and his return from TJ briefly) it screwed with the whole rotation. He believes that skipping starts, shutting him down and revving him up again, and moving the rotation around too much is more detrimental to the team than just shutting him down completely. And I think there’s sense in that

ConstantinusMagnus
2 years 11 months ago

Juan Pierre… have you noticed he has 2,120 hits and just turned 35 in mid-August? ESPN projects 123 hits total for this season so he’ll end with about 850 hits to 3,000. If he averages 142 hits over the next 6 seasons (when he’ll be 41) we’ll be in the same position we’ve probably avoided with Johnny Damon… does 3,000 hits warrant an automatic ticket to the Hall of Fame? By the time he gets to 3K, he’ll likely have accumulated at least another 150 stolen bases putting him in 6th place all-time. He’s got one World Series ring already (’03 Marlins) and might earn another one or more over the remainder of his career. He has yet to be an All-Star but has led the league in hits twice, stolen bases three times and triples once. Baseball Refernce has his career WAR at 14.7 and would probably top out around at 20 WAR in a career that makes it to 3,000. So, I ask again, does a Juan Pierre with 3,000 hits deserve serious HOF consideration?

start_wearing_purple
start_wearing_purple
2 years 11 months ago

No. And it’ll never be an issue, he won’t get to 3,000.

Michael
2 years 11 months ago

You’re talking about Pierre getting 142 hits (minimum) until he’s in his early 40s? How many hitters are productive at that age (or even around). And, although 142 doesn’t seem like much, it’s a .284 average if he gets 500 ABs, which ain’t happening. Sorry, I like the guy, but HOF….nah.

MetsMagic
2 years 11 months ago

Juan Pierre could get 4,000 hits and he still won’t deserve consideration.

PWNdroia
2 years 11 months ago

Who in their right mind would trade Cody Ross?

FS54
2 years 11 months ago

for a change, I want someone asked Strasburg question and the person refuses to answer. people who have no business talking about baseball, are ‘debating’ this issue. politicians are being asked at the end of their interviews or reporters end their roundtable with comments on this matter. are you serious? haven’t they got something better to do? at this point, I wouldn’t be surprised if one of the presidential debates is about Strasburg shutdown.

burnboll
2 years 11 months ago

Phillies had the chance to make the blockbuster deal when Dodgers claimed Cliff Lee. They could’ve sent away Ryan, Rollins and a few other guys who are burden on the team payroll and start the rebuilding process.

But Ruben Amaro doesn’t have the skill set of Cherington to pull off a stunt like that.

johnsilver
2 years 11 months ago

By Ryan, do you mean Howard? Not so sure LA would have been interested in that contract. LA might have been interested in Pence before he was moved and also in Lee. Taking 2 older people in Howard and Ryan, both owed massive amounts might have been a greater risk and then, Rollins another far side of 30YO guy. LA might have wanted at least 1 who was going to be a tad younger, or take on a tad less contract if they were going to be on the hook for still around 250m, or maybe Philly pay a bit more on the deals.

We will never know however, just my thinking. I was kind of surprised Colleti didn’t ask for Mike Aviles over Nick Punto as Aviles is paid about the same (1.2m vs 1.5m for Punto) and is under team control for 2 more seasons, not to mention plays every IF position and is able to play corner OF in an emergency.

burnboll
2 years 11 months ago

My thinking is that Dodgers was that Dodgers real interest in the Red Sox trade obviously was Gonzalez.

The other players were guys that they had use for, but was really only part of the deal, and they probably would’ve left out if they could’ve.

Ruben should’ve employed the same kind of deal.

Offered Cliff Lee, and perhaps some other quality value, and in return Dodgers would had to pick up Ryan Howard (who would be an upgrad over Loney, albeit an expensive one), Jimmy Pop-up, and quite a few of the other players that sits on bad contracts.

Eg, Phillies have no use for a star closer at the moment, but Dodgers does.

So Papelbon would had to be included in the deal.

I would go as far to say that the deal would’ve made more sense to both the Phillies and the Dodgers than it does for Dodgers-Red Sox.

Phillies had all the goods (starting pitching, decent 1st base and closer) that would’ve made Dodgers run for the playoff a better one.

And in return Phillies could’ve asked for quite a few of mid level prospects, maybe one top prospect too and to have LA take on guys.

Phillibuster
2 years 11 months ago

So what you’re saying is that you’ve given up on the 2013 season for the Phillies? Because no matter how much salary you “free up,” replacing 2-3 outfielders, a major power-threat 1B, an above-average (hitting -and- fielding) SS, a solid defensive (and hopefully power-hitting) 3B, an all-star closer, AND a #2-3-caliber starting pitcher ALL through free agency is going to run you more than the amount you just made available.

Or are you saying that Antonio (4.81 ERA this year) would have become our closer, Kyle Kendrick (4.01 ERA this year) would have become our #3 starter, Kevin Frandsen (and his career .668 OPS) would have been our starting 3B, Freddy Galvis/Michael Martinez (.617 and .501 OPS, respectively) would have been our starting SS, and Brown, Mayberry/Nix, and Schierholtz (.692, .777/.720, .726 career OPS) would have been the starting outfield?

With what’s available in FA this year, Phillies would have had to go with at least 2 of those 5 assumptions – more probably 3. Is that something with which you’re comfortable?

burnboll
2 years 11 months ago

Yeah, I definitely given up on the 2013 season as far as winning the World Series.
There are structural problems with the Phillies, and you have to fix them before you can compete again.
What I mean is that you need to get a healthy influx of prospects and also a good balance of young and old on the roster before you can have aspirations of having a perpetual contender.
Texas is pretty close of being there, if they let go of Hamilton they will be alright next season, perhaps resign Andrus to a long contract or deal Andrus in return for 2-3 prospects.
Another team who’s doing great with a healthy mix of young and old is the World Champs, St Louis. I wouldn’t be surprised to see them get their act together and go all the way again.
Ruben Amaro traded away the future for the chance to win, and he also gave away monster contracts for no apparent reason.
Now we’re paying for it.
My reason is that the rest of the league is gonna be too good that no matter what we do next year, we’re not gonna win it all.
Sure, we most likely will have a winning season and may even get into the wild cards. But that’s as far as it’s gonna get us.
So better to recharge.

Phillibuster
2 years 11 months ago

Ruben has so far inked all of 3 “monster” contracts since he’s arrived. Ryan Howard (who, regardless of what anybody thinks about his strikeouts, still drives in more runs than almost anybody else in baseball), Cliff Lee (for which everybody was clamoring in 2011, and only after one half of a fair-to-middling season suddenly wants to drop), and Cole Hamels.

The Howard deal compares extremely favorably to either the Fielder or Pujols deals, and nets you a not-dissimilar RBI/HR average (in fact, when healthy, he tends to be better than the two of them for RBI production).

The Cliff Lee deal was plenty solid when it was inked, and even now is not a bad one. In addition to costing us less money than it would have cost the Yankees or Rangers to land him, anybody telling you that he’s not going to be a top-10 lefty starter in the coming years isn’t basing their prediction in reality.

The Hamels deal is for a homegrown top-5 lefty starter under 30, and likely is less than he would have gone for in FA.

I agree that the farm system was gutted in some of the moves made over the past 3 years, but – generally speaking – that’s something you have to do if you want to try to cash in on the best core of home-grown players in franchise history. Additionally, Amaro has made moves since that have restocked (to an extent) said farm system, including the Cliff Lee to Seattle move (did you see Phillipe registering his first save today? Not to mention Gilles still projects quite nicely), the Pence/Victorino trades (our new catching prospect currently ranks higher than our old “best” catching prospect), and even the Valdez-for-Horst move has turned out quite well for us this year (compare Wilson’s stats to Frandsen’s and see who you like better).

Also, I don’t wear glasses quite so rosy about who we traded away. How’s JA Happ doing, these days (hasn’t posted an ERA under 4.70 since 2010)? Kyle Drabek is sitting on a 5.34 ERA through 2+ years in the bigs. Travis D’Arnaud is still looking good, but also still sitting in AAA. Michael Taylor was traded (again) to Oakland, where he’s holding down a .505 OPS (that’s Michael Martinez-level) through 17 games. If you want to second-guess the Bourn/Costanzo/Geary-for-Lidge/Bruntlett, that’s your prerogative, I guess, but we don’t win the WS in 2008 without Lidge, and of those 3, only Bourn has shown any serious promise.

Which, really, is the point about prospects. 90+% of the time, prospects don’t pan out to anything better than league average players – even top prospects. That’s why, if you have a core that’s already solid, trading prospects for players you already know are good at the MLB level is almost always the right move.

Robert_Risteen
2 years 11 months ago

Maybe they wanted Punto since hes a local guy went to my high school

Tesseract
2 years 11 months ago

Mark my words. Strasburg WILL pitch in the postseason

burnboll
2 years 11 months ago

Hey geys, do any of yuo think that Philies will replays Charlie with Ryan Sandburg next year?

I hope they does, Charlies no good.

burnboll
2 years 11 months ago

He’s had a lot of “one bad year” these last couple of years….