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By Ben Nicholson-Smith | at
Email a copy of 'Offseason Outlook: Tampa Bay Rays' to a friend
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Ausome7
Castellanos++ for Price?
dc21892
Verlander/Price would be scary.
Jason Tucker
I love the Offseason Outlook columns, but I would like it even more if you made trade suggestions or Free Agent suggestions in the columns. I’ve noticed it in a couple of them but it’s not consistant. Just a suggestion. Thanks
BeenThereDoneIt
D’Arnaud, Lind + prospect for Price???
Then Sign Edwin Jackson or Liriano and the rotation would actually be really good with Romero down as a #3 or #4. Price, Morrow, Jackson/Liriano, Romero, Alverez/Happ
Jeffrey C Ditmer
too bad itd be within the division
BeenThereDoneIt
I don’t think that would stop the Rays if they could get their hands on D’Arnaud.
BeenThereDoneIt
Why all the vote downs? That is a damn good offer from Price. The top Catching prospect in baseball, a more than servicable 1st baseman/DH and a good pitching propect for Price? Doesn’t that fill all the needs (1st and catcher) listed in the article?
buddaley
I did not vote, but I understand why people might. D’Arnaud is indeed a tempting target, but was injured last year and remains a prospect, not a proven asset. Lind, according to Fangraphs, has had one decent major league season. Otherwise he has been replacement level or worse, including the past 3 years. And since you did not identify the pitching prospect you would suggest, there is no way to evaluate what additional value he might bring.
The market for top pitchers has been somewhat strange the last few years as the haul for Cliff Lee, Santana and others has been generally uninspiring, so you might have a point. But as a Rays fan, I am very skeptical that the offer you suggest is enough. Right now, Price is among the 5 best pitchers in the AL, and a lefty to boot who has no injury red flags.
BeenThereDoneIt
Proven at the major league level or not, the top Catching prospect should be worth quite a bit on its own. Lind, although not the top 1st baseman in the league is at the very least average and 5 million for 25/80 is a pretty good deal and he has shown he can go well above that in a good year. Add in a pitcher outside of the Lansing 3 and you have a better package by far than the ones that have gotten Lee and Sabatia to use just your example. If you want a more established catcher, sway in JP A in D’Arnaud’s place. I’m sure AA would be pretty fine with that as well.
DieHardMsFan
I think you are forgetting to consider that both Lee and Sabathia were both rentals. Also at the time it seemed like both teams got a good haul for each considering the circumstances. If I am not mistaken the M’s and Indians both received a top 30 prospect. AA would have to throw in more than just D’Arnaud, Lind or a pitching prospect. If the Rays were to trade Price I am pretty sure they could get a package of something like Olt+Andrus from the Rangers. That easily trumps your package. Just because it is a good deal for your team doesn’t mean it is a good deal for both teams involved…
BeenThereDoneIt
It is actually a great deal for both teams involved as it fills a need without crippling a strength. The Rangers may offer up one of Olt or Andrus, but wont do both. Plus, Andrus doesnt exactly help the offense that is the supreme need.
DieHardMsFan
Not saying it doesn’t fit needs. D’Arnaud would be a great get for the Rays as they desperately need a long term answer @ Catcher. What I am saying is that Lind is a replacement level player who is easily replaceable and they don’t get a good pitching prospect in the deal. If Price had 1/2 a year of control left that is a very good deal for both teams. However Price still has two more years and the Rays could easily get a better return than what you are proposing.
Ryan 35
Yeah, but comping Price to Lee and Sabathia doesn’t really work because those were before the Latos and G. Gonzalez trades. You would have to match those deals, plus maybe a little more, not to mention even more because it is within the division. Just too much for even the Jays to do, in my opinion, and this is coming from a Rays fan who holds D’Arnaud and the Lansing 3 in pretty high esteem.
buddaley
We disagree. I won’t go into the details of why-although I have to mention that for the past 3 years Lind has had a negative WAR and an OPS in the low .700s, awful for a 1B/DH. Even his one good year, 2009, was rather ordinary by 1B/DH standards. But in the end, we obviously evaluate the players differently.
In any case, let’s reverse the offer. Suppose you send the Rays Encarnacion. Although he has no defensive value and 2012 was his only truly outstanding offensive year, I have always liked him as a hitter. In return, the Rays will deal you Archer, Torres and a prospect. Interested?
hefe300
I didn’t vote either, but they’re not likely to deal Price without a top pitching prospect as part of the return. That package might land Shields, but not Price.
Sniderlover
Price would cost more along the lines of d’Arnaud + Gose + Syndergaard/Sanchez + another good piece.
It’s too bad both teams are within the division otherwise they line up well for a trade. Jays have the pieces to get a deal done for Price.
You Know Who
It’s sad the rays don’t have to fan base to sustain a payroll that a perennial 90 win team should have. If they could keep half of these homegrown guys on regular deals when their price comes close to market value, the rays would be even more of a power house. That said, their formula works every year and they will continue to churn out upper level talent at lower cost and find gems in the free agent market thats overlooked. It’s just amazing how little they have to work with and the talent they find to put out on the field.
mmiller54
Justin Upton for David Price?
Jeffrey C Ditmer
got rid of one upton dont want another underachiever
mmiller54
Can’t say I blame you. But as a Dbacks fan, I would love to see Price in the desert. The Rays are going to have to trade him eventually (most likely) and we have many feasible trade chips.
Ryan 35
Probably would have to start with Goldschmidt or Wheeler then, don’t know what else exactly.
mmiller54
Wheeler is really not a good prospect and Goldschmidt isn’t going anywhere. Matt Davidson is a pretty good prospect and maybe the Rays would be interested in him along with Skaggs and Corbin for Price? I don’t know if this is enough (probably not).
Ryan 35
Ah ,I see. I figured Davidson was valued more than the both of them, since he’s the best 3rd-base prospect you have, and 3rd seems to be a position the D-Backs are still working out what to do with. Davidson, Skaggs and maybe another bat could work, but I don’t know. The Rays and the D-Backs do match up pretty well, though.
Jeffrey C Ditmer
I dont understand why no one is concerned about extensions for evan longoria, or ben zobrist…i mean longoria when healthy is top 3rd base option defensively, offensively, and leadership wise and yet everyones concerned about price and shields expiring in 2 yrs… maybe im missing something. if shields were traded and with bj coming off the books an extension for longoria/zobrist could be afforded or ext for price even if we stretched payroll
venn177
Longoria is on an incredibly cheap contract right now. The pitching is an immediate issue with their payroll. Which one would you deal with first?
FloridaSportsGuy
Not really, because we have so much pitching depth. We have at least one ML-ready starter pitching out of the bullpen, and another two between AAA and ML (Cobb and Archer). Really, we may need to pick up some middle and long relief if Peralta goes (Farnsworth is as good as gone IMO) as McGee could easily transition into a setup role. If necessary, Alex Torres could be brought up to pitch out of the bullpen or Neimann could be a long reliever, with Cobb taking the 5th spot in the rotation. If nothing else, and Shields is moved over the offseason, I could see Price/Hellickson/Moore/Neimann/Cobb.
venn177
I’m not saying the Rays have pitching issues, only that the pitching is the thing to talk about BECAUSE of the issues of the high price tag on Shields and Price, and why it’s more newsworthy than talking about their hitters.
Jeffrey C Ditmer
yes longoria is on a cheap contract but as you can read hes owed 9 million through 2013 and zobrist is 8 mill through 2013…hence at end of 2013 they are free agents. its all written there. pitching is important but when u have chris archer, alex torres, and alex cobb and even wade davis available to replace price or shields and you have no one to replace zobrist(might get overpriced so im not optimistic) and longoria which would send offense and defense spiraling
mmille32
The Rays hold team options for Longoria through the 2016 season.
2013 – $6MM
2014 – $7.5MM (Team Option, $3MM Buyout)
2015 – $11MM (Team Option)
2016 – $11.5MM (Team Option)
It says $9MM through 2013 because the 2013 salary is guaranteed, while the Rays would have to pay a minimum of $3MM to Longoria if they chose not to exercise the options, beginning in 2014. He will be with Tampa for at least 4 more years as there is no chance they don’t exercise the options on him.
FloridaSportsGuy
I agree, Longoria is without a doubt the face of the franchise. I could see an incentive-laden contract including a stake in club ownership. Price and Shields will eventually go, and there is no one else who I can think of who represents the Rays better than Longo. If his stay is only through 2014 or 15, we’ll need a prospect like Olt to have an easier transition.
BeenThereDoneIt
MLB doesnt allow club ownership among its players due to conflict of interest as far as the CBA goes. Not to mention that it would put a negative value on the contract because The Rays lose money left and right
Jeffrey C Ditmer
i know there will be other overlooked signings by rays which is one reason why i love them. i think a strong push should be made for professional patient hitters in Travis Hafner(rebound option and no more than 1-2mill or incentive laden) Kevin youkilis(unlikely cuz hes everybodys bargain deal of winter)…and a homecoming of jonny gomes could help in power department and i remember him being a great clubhouse presence a fewdays a month in OF, and dh platoon with hafner etc..just some ideas…i think rays have replacement middle relievers already in dane dela rosa, josh lueke, cesar ramos…dont have a great pedigree but with maddon’s magic and appropriate usage can be serviceable
johnsilver
Youkilis will be a bargain, but not by Rays standards.
He will in all liklihood still end up with a 2/16-18m deal and can’t see Tampa even getting close to that amount.
Someone they could approach that would be within the Rays affordability range for 1b, is old friend Casey Kotchman, who seemed to have had his return to younger days career year at Tampa in 2011 and is a FA again. He only made 3m last year, had his typical glove 1st, poor bat year at Cleveland and just *maybe* he could find that magic again in Tampa? he’s the best defensive 1b in the league and would be an upgrade over Pena regardless. Cost an awful lot less to boot.
Asu
Another Upton no one wants…
cheez13
I’m glad I’m not a GM. I could never pay these guys what they are saying they should get. Upton 10mil + per on a multiyear deal…..wow!. Is that what a fast CF that plays mediocre defense, hits for power but has under .300 OBP this past year is worth??? So, a guy can hit a HR every 20-25 at bats, never walks, hits .250, play average defense and walk away with a 5 year/ 55 million contract???
I don’t think Bourn is worth the 12-15 mil I hear being thrown out there….but, his OBP is better than Uptons and his defense is ridiculous (can’t believe he didn’t get a gold glove). Upton has more pop, thats about it.
I guess if you can hit one HR a week then you get 10 mil per or more.
johnsilver
Not true. When Upton has his head in the game, he is one of the best around. Combo of glove and an absolute cannon of an arm.
$3513744
well that’s kind of the problem then isn’t it? because he can be one of the best but he’s never been one. and if it doesn’t get his head in the game, he never will be one of the best. his point remains perfectly valid as it’s a lot to pay a guy who “could” be better but never actually is.
johnsilver
Hey.. I am not a BJ Upton supporter.. Don’t target me 🙂
Watch many Rays games (live near Tampa) and get fed up with his many supporters proclaiming how great the guy is, but he only plays hard when he feels like it and they ignore all those times he half heartedly runs after balls in the OF, or mainly he misplays and then jogs after, or jogs down the 1b line on grounders.
I pity whoever signs him as a FA. Maddon kept him under “control” and had to resort to benching him sometimes even with his attitude. Something about Tampa and guys that have gone thru that organization, but Maddon got rid of most of them finally. Upton is the last remaining one of the bad ones and Maddon probably will be better off without that headache.
Can’t take away from the fact the guy *is* a terrific defensive CF when he *feels* like it however and throwing? He just might have the best arm out there and including Frenchy is that list also. Upton has a good, accurate arm, just keeping him focused and wanting to play.
His bat is another matter.. Straight downhill for years and he swings at everything. Look myself for him to end up with Washington, Rizzo has wanted him for years and be another Werth like bust.
Milly Wyman
I’m with you, couldn’t have said it better myself.