NL Notes: Phillies, Dodgers, Nationals

Here are some notes out of the National League:

  • The Phillies have yet to receive an offer that the club deems acceptable for any of its players, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports (Twitter links). Philadelphia is determined not to give players away for salary relief, and is willing to wait to deal until the offseason, Rosenthal adds. Rival executives counter that the Phils’ asking price is too high given the age and cost of the players it controls, Rosenthal adds in another tweet. (It is worth noting, of course, that several Phillies are very plausible August trade candidates.)
  • Dodgers GM Ned Colletti discussed his team’s situation heading to the deadline, as Bill Shaikin of the Los Angeles Times reports (all links to Twitter). He made clear that he was not interested in moving any of the club’s three best prospects: “We’re not in the market to trade any of the three, period,” said Colletti. “There’s been no player discussed that warrants two of the three.” The GM also indicated that he does not expect to deal Matt Kemp, noting that “no one’s ever heard me say we’re shopping Matt Kemp … that’s all in another world.” Though the market was proving difficult to crack, Colletti said he has concentrated on adding arms.
  • Looking for infield help in the wake of Ryan Zimmerman‘s hamstring injury, the Nationals have considered Asdrubal Cabrera of the Indians and Daniel Murphy of the Mets, at least internally, tweets Rosenthal. That does not mean that a deal is close on either player (or, presumably, that discussions have even taken place).


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65 Comments on "NL Notes: Phillies, Dodgers, Nationals"


Phillyfan425
1 year 4 days ago

So Phillies are saying teams aren’t offering enough. Other teams are saying the Phillies want to much. I don’t know about you, but I’m pretty sure that’s how a negotiation always starts.

Cdiaz
1 year 4 days ago

They do, but he’s being so naive about it he’s team is losing every game. They need a change their too old slow. They need youth.

Phillyfan425
1 year 4 days ago

Phillies aren’t winning anything this year. And next year is probably a lost season as well (something RAJ has even hinted at). Also, youth =/= better. I strongly dislike when people say “inject some youth”. The youth still has to have talent. I’ll take a 35 year old Chase Utley over a 25 year old Jedd Gyorko every day of the week.

Cdiaz
1 year 4 days ago

Thats true but would you take howard over freeman. I doubt it . It is a lost season and next yr their gonn lee a free agent if they dont trade him before they might not get anything in return , but they’ll put lee on waivers next month..

Phillyfan425
1 year 4 days ago

Of course I’d take Freeman over Howard. At this point in their careers – Freeman is a much more talented player than Howard. That’s not hard to do right now (I’m sure you could find a ton of guys who are much more talented than Howard right now – regardless of their age).
And I’m not saying don’t sell. I’m just saying don’t sell for practically nothing.

nm344
1 year 4 days ago

Some deep analysis here. Phillies should play a guy like Freeman versus Howard! Problems solved!

KJ4realz
1 year 4 days ago

Ok but if the team isn’t going anywhere within the next couple of years, is a 38+ Utley a better option than a 27+ Gyorko, or perhaps multiple 25+ players at the tkme they might contend?

Injecting youth is good with talent, obviously, but youth in general is better for teams that aren’t close to contending.

Phillyfan425
1 year 4 days ago

I’m not arguing that having a talented young core isn’t important. Just that youth doesn’t automatically equal talent. And I get tired of seeing people continually mistake the two. There are good young players. And those are great. But I don’t see the point of being young, just to be young.

NotCanon
1 year 4 days ago

Not really, no. If your youth is never even close to as good as your veterans, then there’s no advantage there unless you can reallocate the reduced salary to pay for someone else who’s better enough that he can make up for the younger (poorer) player.

Since the Phillies aren’t exactly strapped for cash (~$200MM/season starting next season from TV alone), there’s no advantage to trading aging stars for younger never-will-bes. Prospects? Sure. But there’s no advantage to having Gyorko over Utley unless the latter breaks his femur.

godewey
godewey
1 year 4 days ago

I agree to an extent. I believe you need a balance. Veterans who know how to, and young players who have energy and are still hungry.

Neal Hansel
1 year 4 days ago

Youth is cheap, I guess the Phillies don’t believe in that or won’t until they unload some of their overpaid players. I don’t understand why they let it come to this….there’s just so many high priced underperforming players on their team. Is there a young player on the major league roster with cheap and productive years ahead?

Phillyfan425
1 year 4 days ago

Asche at third. He’s been league average with the bat (slightly below with the glove). Revere in center (should probably be in left). He can hit .300 and steal 40 bases a year. The entire bullpen (outside of Papelbon and Bastardo) are all in pre-arb. I’m a Dom Brown fan – but know I’m in the minority, so I’ll leave him out.

Again, I’m not saying youth can’t be a good thing. Just that I’d prefer talented players (regardless of age) over a “young” team (who has less talent).

Dan Muccino
1 year 4 days ago

That’s true, but the longer he waits, the less he’ll get in return. His players will only get older, and those years of control will slowly go away. At some point, no one is really going to want a 45 year old Chase Utley

NotCanon
1 year 4 days ago

Not necessarily true. If they don’t regress that much, the reduced financial commitments of shorter contracts can yield greater returns.

It has to do with how the market is shaking out as well.

nm344
1 year 4 days ago

Sounds like Kenny is negotiating on the part of some GMs that want some Phillies players on the cheap.

Danny Phillips
1 year 4 days ago

Don’t see the Mets moving Murphy. They would like to compete next year.

thenewyorkfan05
1 year 4 days ago

only way i see the mets trading murphy is if they get overwhelmed. especially if they trade within division to the nats! Something like AJ Cole and Michael Taylor (No way they would get Giolito. But crazier things happen lol) this would be a best case scenario for the mets as it cripples the nats youth and they arent far from the majors and can help in 2015. Hell i would even throw in Colon if they want to get rid of 11Mil (not eat any $) to put towards a FA SS. Just saying as best case dont see either team making this move though

thenewyorkfan05
1 year 4 days ago

then they can give wilmer time at 2nd on a daily basis to show what he can do.

Neal Hansel
1 year 4 days ago

Amaro needs to wake up or he won’t have a job nor any cash to spend

Luke
1 year 4 days ago

No way man, his 30 year old 100+ mil pitcher is totally worth every teams 3 best prospects

Neal Hansel
1 year 4 days ago

What about the other players? Byrd, Utley, Howard, Rollins, Papelbon, Lee, and Burnett? Hamels is a good pitcher but what team is going to take on 100 million without Phillies eating some of that salary?

Luke
1 year 4 days ago

no one

nm344
1 year 4 days ago

Yeah top 10 pitcher, pitching like top 5 right now, with cost certainty for the prime of his career vs some unknowns. Wonder who I would target if i’m competing for the title.

Luke
1 year 4 days ago

Sorry but this day and age calling a teams top 3 “unknowns” is a bit of a stretch, yeah he’s a good pitcher, but top 3 plus taking on his contract… i’d much rather have Price for less prospects, minus the contract.

nm344
1 year 4 days ago

Minus the pitcher when he walks to the highest bidder in a year. And he’ll cost top prospects as well.

Luke
1 year 4 days ago

We’re talking about the Dodgers and Cards essentially, they’re not gonna let him walk. He’s 2 yrs younger, better pitcher, and you don’t have to pay him 22+ until 2016.

Phillyfan425
1 year 4 days ago

So you’re arguing that he’s definitely re-signing with the Dodgers/Cards. By your own expectation, he’ll make more than $22 M a season (by that time, it could be $25+ M), and he’ll be entering his age 31 season. At which point, he’ll probably require a 5+ year contract (if not more). So at the end of the day, the “price” in dollars will be much more.

Luke
1 year 4 days ago

I’m arguing that 1 1/2 yrs of Price under arb is very valuable

Phillyfan425
1 year 4 days ago

Ok, let’s say you trade for Price tomorrow, and they “only” make you give up 1 top prospect and 2 mid-level prospects (it’s the Rays, so that’s probably the return they’re looking for). So if you’re the Dodgers, that’s Pederson, Zach Lee, and Chris Reed (since the Rays would want near major league talent). So you get Price for 1 year at $14 M (you’d pay about $5 M this year) and next year at about $19 M (which would be a relatively low jump in arbitration for him). So you’re paying him $24 M for the next 1.33 years (plus, let’s say he takes a 5 year deal, at $24 M AAV – which would probably be a bargain – so another $120 M). You’re now up to 6.33 years and $144 M including paying for his age 35 season.

Meanwhile, you could give up Pederson, Urias, and Seager for Hamels (and the Phillies have said they’d kick in $10 M). Where in you’d be paying him 4.33 years and $94 M.

So essentially, you’re paying an extra $50 M for Price’s age 34 and 35 seasons – to save giving up Urias and Seager (don’t get me wrong, they could be very good players, but at this point, they’re still just – albeit highly rated – prospects).

Luke
1 year 4 days ago

Nicely laid out, definitely depends on how you value those prospects, or top prospects in general. Just don’t think its worth the risk to lose guys like that IMO, while having to take on 2 yrs of 34/35 yr old Price at 25 a year in 2020 might not the worst deal.

Metfan9876
1 year 4 days ago

Price would bring back more in a trade than Hamels simply because he doesn’t have the big contract attached to him. He would most likely command 2 top prospects and one mid-level guy. I don’t think he is going anywhere this year, though.

NotCanon
1 year 4 days ago

He also doesn’t have more than 1.2 years of control left. The issue is that when you trade for Hamels, you get him for 4+1 (and only 4+1) at what the going rate for a pitcher of his caliber was 2 years ago.

Price will be cheap for 0.2 years, probably a little bit less than Hamels next year… And then you probably have to commit to another 5-6 years of him on top of that, at a rate higher than what Hamels is making.

Metfan9876
1 year 4 days ago

Yes, but who’s to say the team that trades for Price only wants him for this and next year and then lets him walk? Or maybe someone can get two years out of Price ( short-term deal ) and then trade him away again.

Who knows. Both are very good, valuable left-handers to have in a rotation,

NotCanon
1 year 3 days ago

And if a team only wants him for the short-term, then that’s fine – but if that’s the case he’s going to be cheaper than Hamels to acquire, because you’re only getting him for a little over a full season. Hamels has value both in his ability and his contract, because ~4 years is pretty much the ideal contract for an ace starter who’s 30.

NotCanon
1 year 4 days ago

Actually, no, Price isn’t a better pitcher. Hamels has the superior ERA+ over the last 3+ seasons and since 2008 (Price’s debut), a BB/9 0.2 higher over the last 3+ seasons and 0.2 lower since 2008, a K/9 0.1 lower over the past 3+ seasons and identical since 2008, a WHIP 0.001 lower over the past 3+ seasons and 0.009 lower since 2008.

Luke
1 year 4 days ago

ERA+ doesn’t factor in your division you pitch in, it factors in your league, so it’s not a perfect stat, obviously price faces a tougher situation in the AL East. Not saying they’re far apart IMO i’ll take a 28 yr old price over 30 yr old Hamels, thats all

Cdiaz
1 year 4 days ago

Kemp is getting hot 3 homers in the last two games. Maybe he’s getting healthy

Brian Lynch
1 year 4 days ago

Or motivated.

Cdiaz
1 year 4 days ago

He knows if he hits he’s going to be in the line-up . He’s found a home in right field , i heard he came up as a right fielder.

Travis2014
1 year 4 days ago

Alright someone go find Doug Melvin(Brewers GM). Not one rumor all day. Not acceptable(though do you ever here of a Brewers trade before it happens?)…still stressful to wait and see if he gets anything helpful

KJ4realz
1 year 4 days ago

I guess the good thing about the Phillies players is they are all signed through at least next season too. So they could wait until the offseason.

Only problem is, normally teams get desperate at the deadline so they may give up more plus during the offseason those teams look to get better by FA or guys getting promoted/healthy.

I guess I wouldn’t be too upset if rube did nothing tomorrow

Matt
1 year 4 days ago

Amaro should have blown up the Phillies years ago. Doesn’t take a rocket scientist to know they’ve been done for a while. Should have traded Cliff Lee, Howard, and maybe even Utley, Hamels, and Rollins and built towards the future.

Phillyfan425
1 year 4 days ago

“Years ago.” Would that be 3 years ago, where they were in the midst of a 102 win season? Or 2 years ago, when Utley and Howard were rehabbing from injury (making both, pretty much untradeable since nobody knew what they would come back as)? The first point you can go back and say with 100% certainty that he should have traded at that time was after the 2012 season. So I guess you’re right. 1.5 years ago, he should have blown it up. If he knew that no one was going to rebound, at all. And that he’d lose Halladay as well to injury.

NotCanon
1 year 4 days ago

I do find it amusing how many people throw out “the Phillies should have been sold off years ago!” line, when they were winning the 5th straight NLE title in a row less than 3 years ago.

Hoosierdaddy92
1 year 4 days ago

You think the Phillies are in a bad situation now? Imagine how much worse a position the Phillies would be in if an injury concern hadn’t voided their original Miguel Alfredo Gonzalez contract agreement of over 50MM. Haha

nm344
1 year 4 days ago

Because you totally know for sure that offer ever existed.

Colin Christopher
1 year 4 days ago

Right? I mean, only about 67 different media outlets reported a 6-year, $48 million offer had been agreed to, so “over $50MM” is way off.

nm344
1 year 4 days ago

Or maybe they all copy/pasted the same thing some ‘source’ threw out there . Unless you were there there is no way to know.

Hoosierdaddy92
1 year 4 days ago

It was widely assumed throughout the industry that he was going to land a contract in that range, long before he even agreed to any deal with them. So naturally, it was a shock when the deal fell apart, and was redone for much less money

Colin Christopher
1 year 2 days ago

I’m just going to throw out there that the Phillies’ MLB site reported it, so maybe there was something to it.

Hoosierdaddy92
1 year 4 days ago

Thank you. I was just paraphrasing there, but I remembered it was in that 48 to 52MM ballpark. I think there’s some bitter Phillies fans chiming in

Hoosierdaddy92
1 year 4 days ago

Multiple sources actually

Phillyfan425
1 year 4 days ago

Wait, so you mean the Phillies bid on a guy who hadn’t pitched for 1.5 years and nobody did a full physical on. They won the bid, got every other team to drop out. They then proceeded to run a full set of tests, saw something they didn’t like, and got him for 1/4 of the price and half the years?
I’m pretty sure if Billy Beane did that, people would be writing odes to him.

Hoosierdaddy92
1 year 4 days ago

Only saying that they could be in a much much worse situation, with yet another big contract they can’t move for any sort of haul. Try to look at the glass half full, even if Ryan Howard, Papelbon, Cliff Lee, Byrd, and Ruiz contracts have 5 of the 10 worst contracts in baseball relative to production and the Phillies will be in the NL East cellar the next 3 seasons

Phillyfan425
1 year 4 days ago

Byrd is a 1.5 (fWAR) to 2.8 (rWAR) player. Worth $9-$18 M per year (Phillies have him at $8 M AAV). Ruiz is a 2.0 (fWAR) to 2.3 (rWAR) player. Worth $12-$15 M per year (Phils have him at $9 M AAV). I hardly think those ranks as “top 10 worst contracts in baseball”.

Howard’s is definitely awful. And Papelbon’s is bad (although he’s performed well this year). Lee’s is dependent on his health through the remainder (although he’s provided enough value in the first 3 years to justify the entire contract).

Hoosierdaddy92
1 year 3 days ago

Let’s look at it this way. Based on current and future projected production. I think we can both agree Howard has the worst contract of any first baseman in the game for the next 2 seasons in terms of the amount of value (virtually none) he provides for it. Carlos Ruiz has the third worst contract in the game for any catcher, behind only Joe Mauer and McCann for the next two seasons. Byrd has been productive in his own terms, but what outfielders have worse contracts than him for the amount they can produce in the next 2 seasons? Carl Crawford, Andre Ethier, Shin Soo Choo, Carlos Beltran. That’s about it. Papelbon has the worst contract of any reliever period, although Nathan is giving him a run for his money. Cliff Lee, Verlander, Lincecum, Cain run the risk being the most ridiculously over-priced starters in the league if they can’t turn it around next season or the following. So basically, all four of them are in the top 5 worst contracts for their position for the next 2 seasons. At this current time.

Hoosierdaddy92
1 year 3 days ago

Your perspective on Byrd, Cliff Lee, and Carlos Ruiz all represent the primitive perspective that got the Phillies into this mess in the first place. Cliff Lee’s past performance should not hold so much weight. It definitely should play a role, but to justify 3 years and 77.5MM with nearly unlimited risk and uncertainty of production is not a viable short-term or long-term strategy. As for Byrd and Ruiz, you are suggesting that Byrd and Ruiz will continue this same production (which is barely above average) into their age 37-38 seasons and age 36-37 seasons. This is an unrealistic expectation.

max
1 year 4 days ago

So, Utley & Murphy are likely out of the equation since both the Phils & Mets probably would want a package centered around Giolitto. Cabrera (CLE) would be an interesting choice….if he can play third or second. That’s why Hill or Prado are probably the best choices for the Nats tomorrow.

BlueSkyLA
BlueSkyLA
1 year 4 days ago

So how are we going to keep those Kemp trade rumors alive now?

jeremy
1 year 4 days ago

no way i trade him now he on fire. let him play out the rest of the season as a dodgers and in the off season dodgers see what they want to do with the OF. but we never know what can happen from now and the deadline

BlueSkyLA
BlueSkyLA
1 year 4 days ago

Never made any sense to trade him anyway. Those rumors had a complete life of their own, with no connection to reality.

jeremy
1 year 4 days ago

i was always more for trading ethier if needed room for pederson but as of right now i think dodgers are fine without him and so far puig is holding his own in CF.

jeremy
1 year 4 days ago

no way we trade kemp now he on fire just dump ethier and in the off season figure out what they want to do with the OF and if pederson fit their plan. right now i dont mind him staying in the minors if this OF keep working

mike
1 year 3 days ago

Amaro needs to go to the cards and asked for Taveras, Miller and a lower prospect. That’s fair on both ends. He needs to go LA and ask for Pederson or Seager, Urias and a lower prospect. That’s fair. Rebuild already.

JamieMoyer
1 year 3 days ago

See I would have thought that those deals weren’t fair, but then you said “that’s fair”, so I guess they’re fair.