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Three Needs: Toronto Blue Jays

By Mark Polishuk | September 17, 2017 at 10:41pm CDT

This is the latest edition in MLBTR’s Three Needs series. Click to read entries on the Braves,  Tigers, Reds, Pirates, Giants and Mets.

After reaching the ALCS in the previous two seasons, the 2017 Blue Jays stumbled out of the gate to a brutal 2-11 start and simply never got on track.  The team did have some good stretches and was still hanging around the wild card race in late August, so it could be tempting to write the season off as a by-product of some brutal injury luck, as several Jays regulars spent significant time on the disabled list.  It could also be argued, however, that the injuries simply exposed some underlying issues with the roster that would’ve prevented Toronto from contending even at full strength.

A rebuild isn’t in the cards given the talent (and big contracts) still on hand, so the Jays are planning for a big rebound in 2018.  Here are a few of the areas that need to be addressed in order for the Jays to return to contention…

[Related: Blue Jays depth chart and payroll information at Roster Resource]

1. Make the lineup less one-dimensional.  The Jays ranked at or near the bottom of the league in just about every major offensive category except for home runs and walks, and this lack of versatility led to the third-worst offensive fWAR (9.0) of any club in baseball.  Justin Smoak’s breakout year was countered by Jose Bautista and Kendrys Morales having sub-replacement level seasons, plus the light-hitting duo of Ryan Goins and Darwin Barney getting the bulk of playing time at the middle infield spots thanks to Troy Tulowitzki and Devon Travis missing much of the year.  Lengthy DL stints for Josh Donaldson, Russell Martin and Steve Pearce also didn’t help matters.

A general lack of speed and positional versatility is baked into the Toronto roster given the presence of so many veteran players.  If the Jays are looking to add contact hitting, defense and perhaps more stolen bases into the mix, two positions that stand out are right field (which we’ll address in the next point) and second base.  The Jays simply don’t know what they have in Travis due to his already-extensive injury history, so getting a more reliable middle infield option is necessary.  Shortstop is another question mark thanks to Tulowitzki’s own continued injury problems, though he’s probably untradeable because of his big contract.  An everyday middle infielder that could play second base but handle short in a pinch would be ideal for the Jays, as it would give them flexibility in the increasingly-likely event that Tulowitzki or Travis will again hit the DL.

The Jays could also consider trading a veteran simply in order to create room for more versatile players, even if it wouldn’t free up any payroll space.  The Jays would have to eat money to move Tulowitzki, Morales or maybe even Pearce, but they could cut down on that financial outlay by taking on another “bad” contract in return.  Dealing one of those big contracts to add a somewhat pricey corner outfielder, starting pitcher or reliever in need of a change of scenery would allow Toronto to address a need while technically not really creating another roster hole, given how little the in-house veterans contributed in 2017.

A bigger-picture move would be to deal Donaldson or Smoak, though such a trade doesn’t seem likely since the Jays will be counting on those two as cornerstones of next year’s lineup.  The Jays will certainly talk to Donaldson this winter about an extension as he enters his last year under contract, and even if talks don’t go anywhere, it seems much more plausible that Toronto shops Donaldson at next July’s deadline (if at all) rather than move him this winter.

2. Add a new right fielder.  Bautista’s tenure with the club is all but certain to end, leaving a big hole in right field.  Teoscar Hernandez, acquired at the deadline for Francisco Liriano, is the most obvious in-house candidate, though he may also not be ready for an everyday role on a contending team.  Ezequiel Carrera, Anthony Alford, Dwight Smith and perhaps Dalton Pompey are other internal options if the Jays wanted to cobble together a platoon, but right field stands out as a clear opportunity to add a reliable everyday player to the lineup.

While the Jays will have some money to spend, signing the likes of a J.D. Martinez or another top-tier free agent bat doesn’t fit with the team’s usual M.O.  A trade could also be somewhat difficult; barring the type of bad-contract swap scenario I mentioned earlier, the Jays don’t have much in the way of MLB-ready prospects to offer in deals.  This could be a situation where Toronto uses the money freed up by Bautista’s departure to acquire an outfielder from a team primarily looking to move salary rather than add prospects.

3. Add at least one, preferably two starting pitchers.  The Jays head into 2018 with a rotation headlined by Marcus Stroman, J.A. Happ and (theoretically) Aaron Sanchez, provided that Sanchez can solve the blister and finger issues that limited him to just 36 innings.  Sanchez’s injuries have already been enough of a lingering concern that he can’t be entirely counted on until the spring, making it all the more important that the club reinforces its pitching staff.

One spot could be filled by a familiar face, as there is mutual interest in a reunion with impending free agent Marco Estrada.  That will be a boon if Estrada returns to his 2015-16 form, though even the inconsistent 2017 version of Estrada has still delivered 176 2/3 IP and 2.7 fWAR.

It seems like any pitching additions will have to come via signings or trades, as Toronto is lacking in MLB-ready starters at the Triple-A level.  Joe Biagini could be a candidate for a fifth starter’s role after a full Spring Training of preparing to be a full-time starting pitcher, though his up-and-down performance as a starter this year hints that his ultimate future could be in the pen.  The Blue Jays won’t be shopping at the high end of the free agent pitching market, but a mid-range signing akin to their deal with Happ two winters ago could fit.  The Jays have already been mentioned as one of the teams potentially targeting Alex Cobb this offseason.

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MLBTR Originals Toronto Blue Jays Three Needs

AL East Notes: Betts, Otani, Yankees, Mets, Pomeranz
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Quick Hits: Utley, Hutchison, Int’l Market
View Comments (58)
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58 Comments

  1. Gunnerson

    8 years ago

    damn gonna need a longer list.

    1
    Reply
  2. nmendoza44

    8 years ago

    Their upper minors are absolutely barren when it comes to even modest major league talent.

    1
    Reply
    • 24TheKid

      8 years ago

      Vlad Guerrero Jr.?

      Reply
      • soggycereal

        8 years ago

        lower level minor league affiliate

        Reply
    • jakem59

      8 years ago

      Anthony Alford, Richard Urena, Lourdes Gurriel, Tom Pannone, Reese McGuire, Danny Jansen, Harold Ramirez, Sean Reid Foley, Conner Green, Jon Harris, Andrew Case, Justin Shaffer, Andrew Guillotte, Ryan Borucki, Rowdy Tellez, the lopes brothers, and Roman fields are all at AA or AAA and while they may not be Superstar prospects they’re all showing they could help the team in 2018 and beyond

      2
      Reply
      • stormie

        8 years ago

        And Guerrero and Bichette are basically AA players now, we know they’re both starting 2018 there.

        Reply
  3. pplama

    8 years ago

    I’ll try this again.
    Not sure how willing to trade talent they’ll be after bashing the previous GM’s dealings but:
    White Sox would take lower minors prospects for Avisail Garcia and a bad contract if necessary.
    Logan Warmoth and Nate Pearson for Avi.

    Reply
    • jdgoat

      8 years ago

      No way. That’s way to much for a guy having his first good year in the majors. I’m pretty sure warmoth is in their top 5 prospects.

      Reply
      • Bungalows

        8 years ago

        Top 5? Lol homie he’s prolly in top 9 maybe

        Reply
        • jdgoat

          8 years ago

          He’s number 4. Pearson is 9. That’s an awful proposal for avi Garcia

          Reply
    • Geebs

      8 years ago

      Too much? Of course it’s too much. Garcia has no value, he strikes out to much, doesn’t walk even 1/4 of the amount he strikes out and he doesn’t hit home runs. JDM is a way better player, longer history of better success and he moved at the deadline to a team that desperately needed him and he brought back almost nothing. Garcia didn’t move at the trade deadline because he has no value and that hasn’t changed.

      Reply
    • go_jays_go

      8 years ago

      Avisail Garcia is playing off of a .394 BABIP, and 2017 marks his first truly good season. I wouldn’t bet on him repeating in 2018.

      Reply
  4. Franx

    8 years ago

    Alex Cobb, Eduardo Nunez, and resigning Estrada would help immensely. I say let the rookies have left and right field. I would also say eatting some of the Morales contract and trying to trade him for some sort of mlb ready prospect. Pearce and smoke platoon first, with Pearce a spare utility player for the outfield. Idk where they would trade Morales, love the guy but the permanent dh role is a huge hole

    Reply
    • cmancoley

      8 years ago

      Morales to the Rays makes sense

      Reply
      • Michael Birks

        8 years ago

        Boston will make a nice offer to Nunez as well

        Reply
    • Geebs

      8 years ago

      The jays aren’t getting an MLB ready prospect for morales, even if they eat the rest of the contract in its entirety. It was a bad signing at the time, they overreacted to the market, read it wrong and gave a bad player a bad contract.

      1
      Reply
      • jimmertee

        8 years ago

        How is Morales a bad signing for the Jays? As of now .249 BA 27 Hr, 80 Rbi, Ops+ 94, Huh?

        Reply
        • markb-6

          8 years ago

          OPS+ isn’t a perfect stat, but since you’re using it – Morales is below league average at 94. He’s getting on base at .305 clip. He’s making as much as Daniel Murphy and Jose Abreu. It’s a bad signing.

          2
          Reply
        • jimmertee

          8 years ago

          Agree to disagree.

          Reply
        • darkstar61

          8 years ago

          His (-)0.7 WAR is 5th lowest of all qualified hitters.

          Factoring the Free Market value of a Win, we see Morales has been worth (-)5.7 Million for the Jays this year.

          They paid for 11 Million value though – meaning the team is currently out 16.7 Million on their investment.

          16.7 Million in the hole!

          So they still owe him 22 Million the next two seasons. To make up for how horrific he has been this year, he will need to be worth about 38.7 Million for Tor to break even on the salary commitment. That translates to roughly 4.7 WAR needed from 2018-2019, or an average of 2.35 WAR a year

          But over the last 5 years combined he has totaled merely 1.5 WAR – good enough for 297th of the 331 Hitters with at least 1000 PA.

          And he was playing that bad when he was between the ages of 30-34. To make it even a break even investment the Jays will need him to have back-to-back career years for a combined 4.7 WAR …as a 35 and 36 year old.

          Horrific contract that was easily predictable as a value sink as soon as they offered it. Ended up they literally threw millions in the trash; paying a small fortune just to hurt the team on the field.

          3
          Reply
        • jimmertee

          8 years ago

          Rogers can spend 500 million if it wants too. Let’s throw those references to $/war in the trash. Did they pay too much? Yes, but so what. He produces and the Jays cannot come close to winning anything without home runs. Unfortunately that is their only winning strategy, so who cares what it cost to buy home runs and RBIs. I say buy more guys like that…they are not winning anything in in 2018 anyway becuase they don’t have nearly enough elite starting pitching. Might as well watch home runs and RBIs.

          Reply
        • jdgoat

          8 years ago

          Morales has been awful. He’s been a below average hitter and that’s all that’s expected out of him. You can’t say you agree to disagree when he’s been bad

          2
          Reply
      • Best Screenname Ever

        8 years ago

        How did they read the market wrong? By getting Nate Pearson for not overpaying Encarnacion?

        Reply
        • Geebs

          8 years ago

          Nate Pearson has no place in the conversation about how they read the market wrong and EE was in no way an overpay. They read the market wrong because they offered EE a contract in the first week of FA and when he declined the offer, which by all accounts was not the most earnest of offers, they blew their wad of Pearce & Morales, then as the market played out we found out that EE wasn’t getting the 100 mil long term contract he wanted, neither did any other slugger.. Morales specifically has been terrible, Darkstar61 has already explained how he has cost the Jays 5.7 in expected value, whereas EE has been worth 2.5 fwar or 2.5 bwar meaning he has been worth somewhere in the 25 mil range, about +5 mill in value.

          Reply
  5. Aoe3

    8 years ago

    Bluejays need to load up on single A and AA talent to help build around vlad jr and bochette in the coming years. I hope thats priority over the major league roster.

    1
    Reply
  6. hacksawjim

    8 years ago

    Morales + Pearce will be better next year.

    the issue {for next year] will be believing that Smoak can repeat.

    imo

    Reply
    • darkstar61

      8 years ago

      “Morales + Pearce will be better next year”

      Both are within 40 points of their career OPS, 20 points of their career wOBA, this season. Cold hard truth is, they’ve just never been that good to begin with.

      With both entering their age 35 years, both should be expected to decline (possibly even fall off the cliff completely,) not improve – and the team would be best served recognizing and accepting normal, historic aging trends rather than continuing to try and bet against it. It isn’t working for them for a reason

      Reply
      • jdgoat

        8 years ago

        Pearce will be better if he’s healthy. He’s been good when he hasn’t been hurt.

        Reply
        • darkstar61

          8 years ago

          He may just end up with his most games and/or PA of his career this season – he’s at 2nd most in both; 10 games and 40 PA off his career mark.

          Then, BABIP fluctuation is the only real change with his bat this season. That seems to be because pitchers apparently realized he will chase out of the zone, desperatly trying to make contact.

          Otherwise his decline is from his speed and defense – things you would expect to decline in 34yos

          At 35 he should not expected to stay healthier, get faster, improve his Def or increase the physical skills needed to compensate for pitchers taking advantage of his weaknesses.

          Reply
  7. jdgoat

    8 years ago

    If I had control, I’d trade morales for a bag of balls. A team in need of power might be desperate and take him on if Toronto eats money. That could open up a DH by committee and allow Pearce, Donaldson, Tulo, and Travis to get necessary breathers and more days off the field. Or on the off chance of maybe signing otani?

    I’d also try to bring Anderson back on a one year prove it deal. There should be lots of money, so they could take a small risk like the Cubs did.

    Reply
  8. dichard47

    8 years ago

    we need new philosophy,a culture change, player development change,upper management change, coaching changes .jays need new direction, stressing details fundementals,team ball , putting balls in play,advancing runners, speed on the bases and he field, productive outs, hitting a higher RISP% . now that’s a long wish list. Truth hurts!! .Reality bites!! Fresh start new attitude is needed

    1
    Reply
    • Best Screenname Ever

      8 years ago

      We have the upper management change we sorely needed. No more wretched Ricciardi drafts or Anthopoulos failing to draft position players and trading best pitchers for nothing or worse.

      Reply
      • bullred

        8 years ago

        Alex would have had the minor leagues full again if he was still here. It only takes him a couple of years to restock it. And as far as only drafting pitchers baseball is won and lost with pitching. There is always FA hitters available but always a shortage of good pitching.

        Reply
        • jdgoat

          8 years ago

          The Cubs disagree

          Reply
  9. bullred

    8 years ago

    Yes nothing says roster flexibility like a corner outfielder on a “bad ” contract. If I’m eating a contract anyway I would rather do it with Tulo. His defense is a thing of beauty when he is healthy. Shatkins has changed this team for the worse.

    Reply
    • undertheradar

      8 years ago

      The 2016 and 2017 teams are still largely leftovers from AA’s era, including Tulo and Martin. Happ, re-signing Estrada, and Morales, Pearce, Biagini, and Hernandez are Shatkins’ additions.

      Reply
  10. bluejaysfan

    8 years ago

    The Jays are not in terrible shape. Most of the positions players coming up from AA and AAA all have average to above average speed and are not known as power hitters. I would let two or three of the young players battle it out for LF next year and I would make a serious inquiry into Stanton. According to reports the Marlins want out from the contract, so you may not need to give up a whole lot. Something like Tulo (off set some cost), Hernandez, Travis (maybe) and a prospect for Stanton and possibly another player could be an option. The Fish get cheaper players to fill some holes and the Jays get some power to help the middle of the order and a RF and younger. Your young guys bring you more speed and defence and you hope the pitching bounces back. This wouldn’t add too much to the current payroll. I do not think it will happen, but you have to look into it in my opinion.

    Reply
    • jimmertee

      8 years ago

      The Jays are in terrible shape -Last place in the ALEast and it will only get worse as this aging core declines next year unless drastic surgery is done.

      Reply
  11. jimmertee

    8 years ago

    I agree with dichard47 that wholesale philosophical changes are necessary starting from the top. The longterm competative strategy must be thrown out. This team needs to learn small ball and fundamentals.

    The Jays will not contend barring the holes filled mentioned above by elite players. The current Jays mgmt has shown an incapability of filling holes with good players. They got lucky in Leone and Smoak, and Smoak’s performance will be tested next year to see if it is real or an aberation. There is no lead -off guy. Travis can’t do it; he can’t play on turf. Get rid of him as soon as he is healthy. Pillar cannot lead off [yet].

    Tulowitski needs to move to third or first to keep him out of the trainer’s room. That means Donaldson is gone. The Jays aren’t competing anyway this year, trade him for a haul and yes, they will get a haul for him. Move Tulo to third. Sign a FA for shortstop [like Nunez]. No more light hitting Barney. I’ll take Goins but a team isn’t championship calibre with him in the lineup everyday.

    Martin is still elite defensively and at game calling. His workload needs to be reduced by 30% and that means acquiring a very good catcher who can hit. Lopez, Montero and Maile are not the answer. Most of the time Maile and Lopez are guaranteed outs in the lineup.

    As far as the pitching staff goes, Happ is declining, so is Estrada, Sanchez finger issues aren’t resolved as I have said in the past. Biagini can’t pitch in the rotation with consistency but he is very good to elite as a setup guy. The farm guys appear to be able to fill-out the bullpen but that evaluation is against Sept callups so far. Stroman is a #2 to #3 so this team needs at least one alpha big dog #1 starter and a #3. Happ and Estrada are a #4 and #5. Perhaps Sanchez can stay healthy out of the pen.

    Don’t buy any kool-aid that says this team will compete in Sept 2018 unless they acquire an elite #1 and a real #3 starter and fill the holes of 2nd base, shortstop after moving Tulo to 3rd, a rightfielder and a very good catcher – not a cast off. I suggest that another year of medicrity is in stiore. However, Ross Atkins could be replaced and then it could be game-on if they bring in someone that can do more than build a farm system. I would start by bumping Pete Walker upstairs and bringing in a fresh face for the new pitching coach. Then head to the winter meetings with a big trade list and see what happens.

    Reply
  12. tmwells15

    8 years ago

    Cards have a ton of prospects with average to above ceilings and need a major upgrade in their lineup. Would Jays do a 4 or 5 for 1 swap to move Donaldson?

    Reply
    • jimmertee

      8 years ago

      The Jays should do a 4 or 5 swap for Donaldson. Will they? I think they won’t have a choice at trade deadline time.

      Reply
  13. Phillies2017

    8 years ago

    The problem with the Jays is that they are just a collection of expensive and unproductive old guys. I feel like we’re looking at the 2014 Phillies right now. They need to begin marketing their valuable pieces (Osuna, Stroman, Smoak, Sanchez) this offseason and hope Donaldson can rebound in the first half next season so they can deal him at the deadline.
    Happ and Pillar could probably get something back as well.
    Unfortunately, they’re going to have to deal w/ Tulo, Morales and Martin unless they pay essentially the entire contract and receive a rather marginal return.
    If executed properly, the Jays could be competitive in 2019 which would work out, considering Vlad and Bichette are at least thay far away. Also- Pardihno is an underrated prospect.

    Reply
    • jimmertee

      8 years ago

      I agree, except I might keep Osuna and Pillar, gotta build around something in the majors. As far a prospects go, the Shapiro/Atkins can build a deep farm system but it takes time. My personal scouting view is Vlad will be a star and Bichette, well, not so much. I don’t get the hype around Bichette, perhaps he will be a good major leaguer, but no star. The Jays need to trade and get a haul or two of upper level minors near ready guys.

      I wouldn’t trade Morales, he is a productive player a great DH and part time 1st basemen. I’m a fan.

      Reply
      • Iron Mike

        8 years ago

        what “don’t you get” about the hype around bichette?

        Reply
        • jimmertee

          8 years ago

          As a former MLB bird dog scout, I can project where a player will perform and Bichette doesn’t project well, that is why I question the hype around him. It is hype and not real. Vlad projects as a star and he will be.

          Reply
        • jdgoat

          8 years ago

          He’s smarter than the guys who actually watch him pay and are paid to scout

          Reply
        • Steve Skorupski

          8 years ago

          You don’t project very well either, Jimmie. No one buys into your story about being a scout,Jimmie. Your credibility is long gone & never making it on here ever again. So Jimmie, give your BS a break.

          Reply
    • bullred

      8 years ago

      Tulo and Martin both have trade value , regardless what you hear from news media or this website. That doesn’t mean we should trade them. They both bring much more in intangibles to the team that even if their production suffers they are still contributing. And people lets also try to hold off on some of the fantasy trades ( I will give you 3 or 4 of my injured non performing players for your young superstar) Trades don’t work like that in the real world.

      Reply
      • jdgoat

        8 years ago

        Martin does have value. Sadly, Tulo does not

        Reply
  14. stymeedone

    8 years ago

    One year of Donaldson will not bring back as much as you might expect. There is not a lot of demand at 3B. It’s not just finding a team that needs a 3B, it’s finding one with a farm system of players to trade from. Plus, if Baltimore decides to move Machado, who would you rather have for one year?

    Reply
    • Aiden Elash

      8 years ago

      For one year? Donaldson all the way, he’s a much, much better hitter. Machado play a heel of a third base and has the bat to back it up but he’s not the elite bat Donaldson is. Over the course a long contract obvously id rather Machado but only because he’s younger.

      Reply
    • jdgoat

      8 years ago

      Donaldson is a top 5 bat in the MLB. If he is available a team will trade for him.

      Reply
      • jimmertee

        8 years ago

        He is only one of a few players in MLB that can carry a team for a lot of the season. Teams will line up to acquire him. He was MVP for his talent and production and seems to be able to do it every year, barring injury.

        Reply
      • Aiden Elash

        8 years ago

        He is a top 5 bat but idk if any team is competing that has the farm to trade for him and has a need at third.

        Reply
  15. art moore

    8 years ago

    Jays fans need to get used to losing for a while,.Signing aging pitchers,and over the hill sluggers is not the way.They need a ‘Core 4’,much like the Yankees had.,to build around .Right now the only Jays that would be untouchable for me,on the ML roster would be,JD,Smoak,Stroman,Sanchez,Osuna,and Pillar…the rest of the roster can be shopped..Jays had their ‘run’ in 2015,2016,when everything clicked for them.And I am tired of people bashing Adkins and company.on their player moves. ..Cleveland seems to be doing ok with the team “they” assembled.

    Reply
  16. stormie

    8 years ago

    With Carlos Ramirez looking he has legit closer potential, it seems like a good time to move Osuna to the rotation. The Jays need starters and he has enough quality pitches that he could excel in that role.

    Reply
  17. go_jays_go

    8 years ago

    “A rebuild isn’t in the cards given the talent (and big contracts) still on hand”

    I couldn’t disagree more.

    They should look to rebuild or retool for the 2018 season, and it begins by dealing their soon-to-be free agents. (Donaldson, Pearce, Happ, etc.)

    This will also make a clear opening for some of their younger players and it’s not too crazy to believe that Guerrero / Bichette / Alford being ready for an extended look at the majors by mid-season 2018 or early 2019.

    Reply
    • stormie

      8 years ago

      Whether they should or not, it’s clear that’s not what their plan is. I was all for them cleaning house at the deadline this year, but it seems they don’t want to have a “rebuild” year where they lose the fan momentum. They’re hoping they can transition into a younger team on the fly while remaining as competitive as they can throughout the process. Maybe that’s not ideal for maximizing those older assets, but, if attendance stays high, that is going to allow them to keep a high payroll, which will mean lots of money to spend in FA in the coming years to supplement the young core, as these other big contracts come off the books.

      Reply

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