At 45-52 and 10 games back of a wild-card spot, the White Sox are buried in the American Leagugue playoff race. Despite that, the team isn’t going into the July 31 trade deadline as a motivated seller, Bruce Levine of 670 The Score explains.
Thirty-somethings Alex Colome and Jose Abreu would represent a pair of plausible trade chips if the White Sox were to aggressively ship out veterans. Either player could still move by the 31st, but considering Colome’s under control through 2020, the White Sox could opt to retain him, Levine observes. Abreu’s an impending free agent, though the franchise icon and the club have time and again expressed a desire to stay together beyond this season. The White Sox still aren’t ruling out dealing the first baseman, per Levine, but he adds they’d need to “love” an offer for Abreu if they’re going to part with him.
Meanwhile, two of Colome’s fellow relievers – Aaron Bummer and Jace Fry – as well as utilityman Leury Garcia have also garnered interest, Levine reports. Bummer has generated the most inquiries, but the White Sox are inclined to keep him and Fry.
Just 25 and not even eligible for arbitration until after next season, the left-handed Bummer has pitched to an exceptional 1.73 ERA (3.17 FIP) in 36 1/3 innings. An eye-popping 68.5 percent groundball rate and 8.67 K/9 against 2.72 BB/9 have driven Bummer’s success, as has a rise in velocity. Bummer has seen his average fastball velo rise from 93 mph between 2017-18 to 95-plus this season.
Fry, 26, is another lefty-throwing grounder machine, having forced them at a 57.8 percent clip in 2019. He’s striking out an excellent 11.5 per nine to boot, but a sky-high walk rate (6.68 BB/9) has undermined Fry’s work, evidenced by a 4.28 ERA/4.23 FIP over 33 2/3 innings. He, like Bummer, won’t reach arbitration until after 2020.
Garcia’s already in the arb process – he’s in his second-last year before free agency – but his $1.55MM salary, season-plus of control and defensive flexibility make him appealing to the White Sox and other clubs. While the 28-year-old is typically a center fielder, he has played upward of 40 games at both corner outfield spots and both middle infield positions since debuting in 2013. Garcia’s also a switch-hitter who has complemented his versatility in the field with useful offense in recent years. After managing terrible numbers with the bat from 2013-16, Garcia has been closer to a league-average hitter over the past two-plus seasons. Despite a lack of power, Garcia has posted a 92 wRC+ (.278/.316/.396) dating back to 2017.
Garcia’s improvement at the dish may help lead to his exit from Chicago in the next several days. However, the White Sox – who’d surely like to move past their rebuild and into contention soon – don’t seem dead set on trading Garcia or anyone else.
What’s colome’s 2020 tab going to be 12-13 million? For a guy who is pitching closer to a guy in the high 3’s I’d pass. If they can get something for him now I’d strike while the iron is hot.
He’s at $7.325 million now. I don’t think that will double.
With the season he’s having so far, I could see it. It’s a $5MM or $6MM increase, not a substantial one compared to others in their final year in the arbitration process.
OK, so maybe we can offer $10 or 11 million to him now, see if he accepts, and include half that money in a trade, along with half of this year’s remaining salary. We save something like $1.2 million this year, and spend $5-5.5 million next year. It’s basically paying $4 million to make the return better. If the Rays want Colomé, but need cost certainty on him before they can pull the trigger, this idea may help them. Their farm system is a candy store.
More like $10il. Still too much for a guy skating on some thin ice.
Why’s he skating on thin ice?
He’s not. He’s doing pretty much what he has done every other year of his career, which is get players out when it matters most.
That’s false, Priggs.
His BABIP is .120 points lower than his career avg, his strand rate in 10% higher, career low K/9 while his ground ball rate is unchanged.
This is not sustainable and not a guy you want to pay $10mil and rely on in 2020, when games might matter.
Could also see it easily going over 10 mil. I think he makes 10 million if he gets traded and doesn’t close another game this year. If he ends up with 35 saves or something around there I think there’s a solid chance he’s making 12 million bucks in arbitration. 10 is probably the safe bet considering his numbers show regression coming as well though.
Except he hasn’t been pitching like a “high 3’s” guy. He has been a guy that has pretty significantly outpitched his FIP just about his entire career, so this is nothing new and/or out of the ordinary for him.
Say what you want about saves not mattering (I call bs), but he has been fantastic at closing out games. If you want to dig deeper, 3 of the 10 earned runs he has given up this year have been in blowout losses, so he’s actually been even better than some of his numbers suggest when it really matters.
If they get offered a legitimate mlb-ready player/prospect for him, then sure, move him. If not, they should absolutely keep him.
Well, Prigggs he has outpitched his FIP over his career but he sure as hell hasn’t outpitched it by this margin. A 3.95/4.69 xFIP and a 2.35 ERA is not sustainable. I’ll take the bet on that if you’d like though.
I’d happily bet he finishes closer to his 2.35 than the “high 3’s” that you think he’s destined for.
I have a different take with the recent rule change that prohibits August waiver trades. I believe the White Sox should be active by July 31st.
First, they should at least consider offers for their best remaining short term veterans including pending free agent Jose Abreu, along with arbitration eligible players like Alex Colome and James McCann who each have an additional year of team control for 2020. It doesn’t hurt to listen and occasionally an offer comes in from a desperate contender that you just can’t refuse. If none of these players can bring the organization a return deemed worthy by GM Rick Hahn then the front office will have a two month head start beginning in August to consider contract extensions for all three, especially Abreu who can become a FA following the conclusion of the World Series.
Second and perhaps more importantly, the White Sox need to take the best offers they can for pending FA’s such Ivan Nova, Wellington Castillo, Jon Jay and Ryan Goins. Their value isn’t much but a fringe prospect by July 31st is better than the zero return they would net after that date. The only way players can be acquired starting August 1st would be as a DFA claim which won’t even net a bag of balls for the organization.
The White Sox also should field offers for two of their most versatile players, Leury Garcia and Yolmer Sanchez. Garcia in particular would be the type of veteran that many contenders and playoff teams would love to have on their bench as an insurance policy heading into October. The White Sox should not just “give away” those players like the ones mentioned in the last paragraph since they do have some measure of future control and can fill a similar role with the White Sox in 2020 as hopeful contenders.
Perhaps most importantly, the White Sox ought to be pro-active in moving some of these players within the next 10 days so they can free up two roster spots for CF Luis Robert and 2B Nick Madrigal. If the team hopes to contend in 2020 then they should allow each of these high level prospects to begin their MLB apprenticeship in 2019 and not as rookies in 2020. We’ve already seen the trial and tribulations that accompanied the baptism of previous elite prospects like Tim Anderson, Yoan Moncada and Eloy Jimenez. Let Robert and Madrigal dip their toes into the MLB waters for the last two months of 2019 so that they can begin the 2020 season running, which they’re sure to do plenty of atop the White Sox future batting order!
I entirely agree about freeing up spots for Robert and Madrigal to adjust to the learning curve of going from AAA to MLB in relatively meaningless games down the stretch as compared to being 0-0 on Opening Day next season on day 1.
Everything above that in your post seems like wishful thinking. Maybe McCann brings back a B grade prospect 1-for-1 and Colombe being off the roster saves some dollars but really nobody wants want the White Sox have to sell.
The team is not wasting a year of service time on Luis Robert or Nick Madrigal. It’s likely a mid-April promotion for Robert, a mid-late-June promotion for Madrigal to miss the Super Two cutoff, and 2020 as the last development year before the contention window opens in 2021.
I agree. With the pitching injuries that we have suffer I believe the window is 2021 now.
Service time has been a minimal issue for the White Sox in the past for players they identify as key pieces. Owner Jerry Reinsdorf takes a lot of heat and deservedly so for his miserly spending when it comes to free agents. However, the White Sox do have a great history of locking up their best young players to avoid arbitration and buy out some FA years. They did this with Chris Sale, Jose Quintana and Adam Eaton which paid great dividends in their ability to expedite their recent rebuild. They have continued this trend with Tim Anderson and Eloy Jimenez with the latter gaining an extension before he saw his first pitch as an MLB player.
Both Luis Robert and Nick Madrigal are key pieces for the White Sox. In fact, you can make an easy argument that both are far more complete players than Jimenez.
Robert is a 5-tool stud who has already received an enormous check from the White Sox with his $26M international signing bonus that also came with a matching penalty.
Madrigal can do everything well on a baseball field except hit for power. In my opinion, Madrigal is the one White Sox prospect who can skip AAA and make the leap to the big club without having an issue. The man can hit any pitching and rarely ever strikes out. He is also a Gold Glove caliber defender at 2B. Madrigal also possesses a plus running tool that has translated into solid stolen base numbers. On top of all this Madrigal arguably has the highest baseball IQ of any prospect in the White Sox system and possibly in all of MLB. He was an NCAA champion at Oregon State University and has always had to defy the odds with scouts due to his small size.
As good as Madrigal has been thus far in his collegiate and professional career, he could be one of those rare players who does even better at the highest level of competition. The numbers he has put up at AA have surpassed any of those produced at the lower minor league levels including a .366 BA, .432 OBP and .489 SLG. Madrigal’s 13 to 4 BB/SO ratio in 146 PA’s against better pitching is ridiculous. He has also played error-free ball at 2B in Birmingham and has only made 4 miscues in 942 pro innings covering 512 chances, good for a .992 fielding percentage.
Bottom line: The White Sox will likely sign both Robert and Madrigal to contract extensions well before they begin the arbitration process, perhaps even earlier as they did with Jimenez prior to opening day. The only key player they have failed to lock up in recent years has been Carlos Rodon who has Scott Boras as his agent. It’s just as well since Rodon has spent nearly as much time on the IL as he has on the White Sox active roster.
Service time issues has been a big deal. Eloy would’ve started this year in AAA had he not signed an extension. If Madrigal and Robert want to talk extension I’m sure they could get a call up this year. If not, no shot
…and Robert having banked $26mil with the potential earnings increase of super 2 and an extra year of arb make him far less likely to sign one of Hahn’s extensions.
The White Sox could have done the same with Dylan Cease this year and Michael Kopeck last summer. They were both promoted despite service time issues. It was also speculated that the White Sox had some early extension conversation with Cease this past winter.
Eloy Jimenez did sign an extension which guaranteed him a roster spot on opening day. That’s not to say that he didn’t need more time in AAA to master the art of playing defense in LF which was Rick Hahn’s argument last summer when he didn’t receive an expected call-up.
I will stick with my argument that the White Sox WILL sign both Luis Robert and Nick Madrigal to extensions earlier rather than later as they have done with so many of their best young players in the recent past. I expect the same to happen with Yoan Moncada and also Andrew Vaughn as he gets closer to the his MLB debut. This m.o. makes MLB service time issues less a factor with the White Sox front office than with most other teams not named the Washington Nationals.
Kopech made 24 AAA starts before his promotion. Madrigal hasn’t even seen AAA. Cease likewise made 15 starts but could also be demoted as some point again this year. I think it’s pretty likely he does. Robert just got to AAA much like Jimenez last season. Highly likely you don’t see them for the first 2 weeks of 2020. Barring an extension.
Luis Robert has a better chance of falling into the “trial and tribulation” phase that affected Tim Anderson, Yoan Moncada and Eloy Jimenez in their debut seasons. Robert needs to experience some AAA pitching and also fine tune his defense in CF which is not yet at a Gold Glove caliber because of his “reads”.
Nick Madrigal is entirely different matter. He already is a polished hitter and defender in AA and is also benefiting by playing under the watchful eye of Omar Vizquel. If anybody can make the jump from AA to MLB it is Madrigal who will arrive with the blessing of Vizquel.
Madrigal might make a cameo in AAA but I’ll wager that the White Sox keep him at AA long enough to have him work with Tim Anderson when the latter begins his upcoming rehab assignment. When Vizquel signs off on Anderson that would also be an opportune time for Madrigal to join him as his double play partner on the South Side in early August.
Cease isn’t getting sent down unless the wheels fall completely off. His fastball control hasn’t been fantastic to say the least, but that’s not something new. He has pretty much had one bad inning in every start and then done a great job figuring it out from there.
@Priggs89
Absolutely you’re right. Cease won’t get sent down. Giolito didn’t get sent down last year, Cease won’t this year unless he pitches like Fulmer April last year.
As for Fulmer, I wish Hahn would spit or get off the pot with him. Quit bouncing him between AAA and Chicago. They should’ve left him up and sent down Osich or Ruiz or DFA’d Minaya then. Obviously, repeatedly sending Fulmer to AAA isn’t working. Leave him up in Chicago for the rest of the year. If he figures it out, great, keep him. If not, get rid of him.
Madrigal’s game may not even translate to this level if he consistently puts up sub-.100 ISOs. Calling him a definite future impact piece is premature.
Cease and Kopech were promoted to stagger some of these guys with regard to free agency and arbitration.
@mohoney
First, I had to look up what ISO meant. Since we’re talking about Madrigal, I assumed it had something to do with power (or lack thereof in his case).
So he’s putting up sub -.100 ISOs. No spit, Sherlock, power isn’t his game. It may come as a surprise, but there are great hitters who don’t have HR hitting ability. Contrary to popular belief today, baseball isn’t strictly about HR’s & K’s. You can’t live and die via the HR. It doesn’t work. You have to be able to generate plenty of runs inside the park when opposing pitching limits or eliminates your team’s ability to hit HR’s. ISO reeks of a sham stat.
As for Madrigal. Let’s say a few years from now he hits .390, 4 HR, 100 RBI, 40 SB, wins a Gold Glove, but his ISO is .080, maybe .090. I would take that in a heartbeat over a 2B who hits .260, 25 HR, 60 RBI, ISO over .150, maybe even over .200, and commits 30 errors.
.390? Are you serious? With smaller parks and the juiced ball, nowadays anyone who hits .390 is hitting more than 4 home runs by default.
100 RBI? 40 SB? Where are you getting these insane numbers?
@mohoney
So that’s your argument, attack the numbers of an extreme example. OK, how about I just scrap the example.
ISO is basically a fun stat that has no relevance to anything but comparing power hitters, which Madrigal obviously is not. So his game won’t translate to MLB just because he doesn’t have great power numbers? That’s some idiotic logic there. That’s the equivalent of saying Mark Buehrle couldn’t hit 90 mph and had trouble getting 4 K’s a game, so his game wouldn’t translate to MLB level. See how silly that sounds?
If the team wants to be competitive, they need to stop worrying about what will happen in five or six years and begin process of player development.
It took Moncada a year and a half to hit his stride. Eloy is not a finished product.
By suppressing Robert and Madrigal, they are actually delaying the time when the team can be competitive, assuming typical development curves, and wasting time for Moncada, Anderson and Giolito, who are already on clock.
The goal should be to reach contention, and stay in contention for years. This is just poor management of assets.
This team is not competing in 2020 anyway. The rotation is Swiss cheese.
@Aaron Sapoznik
Spot on!
What I think happens, Abreu and McCann stays. Teams won’t meet Hahn’s asking price on either, which is fine, because the Sox are in a position where they have to be more picky on who stays and who goes. I still say the rebuild ends this offseason. They will be competitive, whether or not they make the playoffs will be a different story, but they will play meaningful games in Sept for once. Anyway, I think Abreu hasn’t been extended yet because of the deadline and the slim chance Hahn will get an offer that will blow him away.
I think Colome gets traded. Too many teams are starving for relief, and I think one team will be desperate enough to meet Hahn’s asking price. No intentions of creating another firestorm on here, but the Q trade is a perfect example. I was stunned at the return Hahn got for Q. Q was a good pitcher, as Colome is right now. I could see a great return for him.
Out of the 2nd group, Jay has shown enough in his short tenure to get traded. Not expecting anything meaningful in return, but at least he can be moved fairly easily.
Doubtful for Nova, though last night’s CG did wonders for his trade value. His next start will be the Hail Mary pass for Hahn. If he duplicates last night, maybe, just maybe…but I’m not expecting it.
Castillo will get DFA’d in August. If by some miracle somebody makes an offer that isn’t contingent on something ridiculous, Hahn needs to make that move immediately. My guess, he’s DFA’d in August, when Collins is ready to come back up.
Yolmer and Leury might get traded, it’s tough to gauge the market on those two. I think Leury’s the more likely to get moved this next week and Yolmer gets moved over the Winter. Then again, they might keep one of the two for a super-utility player once they contend starting next year.
I do think Robert and Madrigal should come up in August, absolutely I do. Madrigal won’t because Hahn won’t have him jump 2 levels. Robert, I can’t see how he hasn’t already checked every one of Hahn’s boxes already, so if he stays down, it’s strictly for arbitration clock purposes (or until he gets an Eloy-type extension).
I am really looking forward to next year, and I can only imagine right now our excitement for this team in 2021 and beyond.
Again, excellent spot-on post, Aaron!
I think we’ve found Aaron’s equally long-winded rec account.
At least he adds something to every article, unlike most people who comment on here just to insult people and teams they don’t like
@pplama
I guess I could’ve condensed this into 2 short sentences, but I don’t have the time to respond to a bunch of posts questioning why I said what I said. I do work for a living, so I can’t sit on here 16 hours a day waiting for responses. Plus, Aaron had a lot of good info to respond on. It’s not like he had one small thought I decided to turn into War & Peace with my response.
One thing that gets lost in all this is the appeal of players on the field. It’s easy enough to speculate on a return for a veteran player like Jon Jay, for example, but if he’s traded I’ve lost a reason to come to the park or turn on my cable tv. Jay is fun to watch: he makes contact, gets on base, scores runs, and clearly shows his love of the game. Trade him? Then who am I going to pay to see? A.J. Reed? Watch him swing at and miss a breaking ball inside and into the dirt? Then watch him miss the same pitch again and again? You have to take into account the value of players people want to watch, even if that means passing on a prospect who may never make it to the bigs. I know that doesn’t fit the bill at a site like this where every commentator is a GM constructing a fantasy team out of fantasy trades or free-agent signings, but I’m a fan who wants to watch good players, not placeholders who will last only as long as it takes some other team’s next can’t-miss prospect to appear on the horizon.
More people will pay to see a complete teams that’s competitive. 2 months of Jay inspired TV ratings isn’t a thing.
Jon Jay’s noodle arm and noodle bat bring you to the park? Seriously? Not Moncada and Giolito and TA and Eloy?
I’m happy just to find a taker for him so Renteria stops foolishly hitting him 5th. Any playing time given to Jon Jay after July 31st is a waste of time.
I hate to see anyone leave but agreeing with Aaron per above.
Go Sox!!
Don’t underestimate Garcia.
Lead off hitter batting .290 and plays multiple positions including SS and CF!!
Ought to get a high level prospect for Garcia!
Nope. Garcia is a below-average offensive producer, and from the left side of the dish, he’s actually a bad offensive producer. If he brings back a guy near the bottom of a contender’s Top-30 list, it’s a win.
Completely wrong mohoney.
89 OPS+ and 91 wRC+, so about 10% below average. Left-handed, we’re talking about a .646 OPS, which is pretty awful. Everything I said can be verified.
Should the Sox trade Colome and/or Bummer… who they gonna have to contend in 2020?!
They’re not going to have enough starting pitching to contend in 2020 anyway.
Cease, Kopech, Giolito, Lopez and a free agent sounds good to me
As much as I would love to add Cole to the rotation, they definitely need to add a southpaw or two.
I wouldn’t count on Kopech just yet though. I think people are severely underestimating how hard it is to bounce back after taking a year+ off with TJ. I wouldn’t be surprised if he disappoints next year but bounces back to his normal self the following year. And that’s assuming he doesn’t get re-injured. For the record though, I hope I’m wrong and he’s great next year.
Sure, in about two years, after we figure out how many of them are dependable major league starters.
Wow an ICON after 5.5 years.
I know, icon is a pretty strong term, but I’m used to the sensationalism from the baseball writers.
The sensationalism on this website’s pretty tame to the other main sites, like MLB,com, ESPN, CBS Sportsline, FOx Sports. With those websites, Bellinger’s having one of the greatest seasons in MLB history, Trout is in the same tier as Ruth, Gehrig, Foxx, Ted Williams, etc., and Kershaw will retire as the greatest lefty in history…that’s the ridiculous sensationism I’m used to reading.
Anymore, most of those stories I just read the headline and that’s enough for me.
^Agreed.
If you ever get to know some of these writers you would understand their methods and motivation to mislead us with their absurdity.
Mark Buehrle was an icon, too. How did that work out? That icon status followed the moth in Reinsdorf’s wallet out the door when it came time to pay up.
Keep McCann. Keep Bummer. Keep Colome.
Trade Nova. Trade Castillo. Trade Garcia. Trade Sanchez,
Agree on McCann and Colome. Closers are not too easy to come by. Especially for a team trying to contend for a few more years.
We need to keep McCann, Fry and Colome. I know Bummer is having the better season but Fry has the better history. Colome has been fairly solid and under control another season so he doesn’t have to be moved now. McCann has been solid this season and better than the last couple of catchers we’ve had in recent years. As far as Bummer is concerned I could go either way on moving him or not. Same for Garcia.
No point in trading mccann until the book on him catches up to his change in approach on offense. High babip, but not a total fluke. Hes more valuable to the sox than anything he might bring back in a trade this season.
Offense is only a small part of what he brings to the table. He’s not going anywhere.
Namely, he’s unlocked Gio. Love to see what he could do with Dylan and Michael.
The Sox rebuild seems to have really stalled. Abreu and Anderson have showed a lot of regression. Hahn is clearly not the guy for the job, but I guess that’s the best you could hope for in a second rate franchise that should probably be relegated to an independent league.
Oh great, a troll account to troll Chisox_fan
You guys are immature, how about adding something to these articles instead of being jackasses
They’re just sad that their window is shut.
@chicub_city
HAHAHA, that is hilarious. Anderson has showed a lot of regression? How, by being on the DL for 4 weeks? That’s gotta be one of the most idiotic statements I’ve seen in a long time.
In fact, it is so idiotic, I present to you the Idiotic Comment of the Day! You must be one of Bocephus and Dogbone’s high school classmates. Soon, your entire Sophomore class will be on here trolling us.
Get the trolling out of your system now, while the Sox are still non-competitive, because starting next year, the Sox will be competitive.
The cubs window for winning is closing faster by the game. Regression from Anderson and Abreu give me a brake. These are the same cub fans that said Moncada is a bust.
The Sox SHOULD be actively trying to move everyone mentioned in the piece except Bummer.
That said, I believe they will hold at the deadline to prop up their final record by a few games, earn a draft pick towards the back of the top 10 and claim further rebuild success than is warranted.
Not really a big deal for 2019.
Going into 2020 with McCann as the starting C, Colome the Closer and, god forbid, Abreu signed to a multi-year deal is when the trouble begins. The real McCann has shown himself the last 5 weeks and lhe level of babip luck and runners stranded for Colome is staggering. Abreu is clearly aging and should only be signed on a 1 year basis.
Last 5 weeks – .245/.304/.468 on a .354 BABIP
If that’s the “real McCann,” he would still be a really good piece for them behind the plate.
There are only 2 ways they’ll even think about moving McCann:
1) They get blown away with an offer
2) Giolito regresses significantly
I don’t see either of those happening.
That .354 BABIP is still unrealistic. Drop it into the .330’s and you see waht you really have. Also what’s the K rate looking like there? This is what regression looks like.
Why would a team “blow the Sox away” for a servicable back-up C?
What does Giolito have to do with it?
You literally just said the last 5 weeks is who the real McCann is. I gave you exactly what he has done at the plate the last 5 weeks. Maybe you should pick a new sample size to better suit your argument…
Why would they get blown away with an offer? I guess you missed the part at the end where I said “I don’t see either of those happening.”
Giolito has a lot to do with it. You can believe whatever you want, but I believe McCann works extremely well with Giolito and is a big part of his continued success this year. He knows how to call a really good game, and he knows how to help Giolito get back on track when he starts to slip. Giolito constantly talks about how much he loves working with McCann and how much he has helped him, but you can’t put that on a spreadsheet, so that probably means nothing to you.
If there’s even a 10% chance Giolito regresses because of McCann leaving, is it worth dealing him? I know my answer.
Giolito went outside the org and impreoved himself. If McCann had anything to do with it, there would ba at least one other example of a pitcher he’s helped. That type of goofy unsupported argument could just as easily be used to say it’s his fault Lopez has been terrible. (it’s not)
PS- the K rate has been 39% You bought-in again. Just like you did with Avi, Lopez last year, Rodon, Collins and all the other flukes they’ve trotted out there. When will you step back and take a critical look at your ability to assess players?
Where did I say that McCann is the sole reason Giolito improved this year? I said he is a big part of Giolito’s continued success and they work extremely well together. There’s a lot more to Giolito’s improvement than just his stuff getting better. Again, you can believe whatever you want, but if you want to call bs on that, you can go meet Giolito before a game and tell him he’s full of it. Baseball isn’t played by robots and/or on a spreadsheet despite what you may think.
Again, you picked the sample size and said “the real McCann has shown himself.” All I did was point out his stat line over that span, which is still very good for a catcher. Now you want to make up your own stats to normalize everything, yet you point out his 39% K-rate over that stretch. Guess what? Normalize that to the mid-20’s, and you likely get his BABIP to where you seem to want it to be, and everything else equals out. But I guess that idea wouldn’t support your wonderful argument. It’s funny though – I would’ve pegged you as one of the “strikeouts are just another out” kinda guys. But maybe you are when it suits your argument – who knows?
As for the other players you listed, you really have no idea what you’re talking about.
Avi – I said many, many times that it wasn’t worth trading him after 2017. He was still young and a capable hitter when healthy (unfortunately not often). Nobody was going to buy in enough to trade a legitimate prospect yet, so they might as well keep him for the first half of 2018 and hope he stays healthy enough to repeat his performance and make some GM believe. Unfortunately, he couldn’t stay healthy and flopped. I absolutely believe they made the right choice based on the options available to them; it just didn’t work out.
Rodon – I have said time and time again that he could be a frontline pitcher if he could stay healthy. He has shown signs of that pretty much every time he has stayed healthy for an extended stretch. Unfortunately, he hasn’t been able to stay healthy.
Collins – He may never hit enough to be a big leaguer, but he has a great eye and he has power from the left side. Despite the high strikeouts, he has performed above average at every single level. If he can be even close to average on defense, he has an opportunity to play in this league. He may never turn into anything, and that’s fine, but I’m not sure why anyone would want to give up on him already. That’s just stupid.
Lopez – His stuff is WAY too good and he’s WAY too young to give up on at this point. He has also shown that he can get everything together and be a very capable big league pitcher. Until they have high quality/high potential replacements available, moving him out of the rotation would be a waste of time at best.
Engel/Tilson/Cordell/Dolmonico/Palka/Rondon – I have quickly pointed out over and over again that all of these players suck and will not have a role in the organization when this team is actually competing.
Any more brain busters?
Funny how you left Moncada, Giolito, and Anderson off your list though. I’d be willing to bet you called them all busts at one point or another. I wouldn’t be surprised if you want to give up on Eloy and Cease already too. You probably even added Madrigal to that bust list based on his High-A numbers.
If you got any other players you’re dying to know my opinion on, just ask. I’ll more than happily keep going.
Easy my friend. Your “novel” comments might further aggravate our pal Paulie, er pplama.
Maybe they are keeping Abreu to do exactly what you suggest: sign him to a 1-year offer via the Qualifying Offer system. It’s only a small raise from what he already makes, and he’s pretty much forced to accept it, because nobody will be giving away a draft pick to sign him.
Most of the time, teams just want compensation for a guy who is too expensive to keep. In this case, though, the team actually may want the player to accept. No commitment beyond 2020, giving the team a chance to see if A.J. Reed can hit himself into a platoon situation at 1B and DH going forward. Andrew Vaughn also gets an entire season in the system to see exactly how much work he needs to get done before he has a shot to make the team.
Abreu 1yr deal at a time approach makes perfect sense if no decent offers. If the ball is unjuiced, a lot of his value from non-monster HRs is lost besides age.
Not sure why you are eager to trade McCann when he likely doesn’t fetch a big return anyhow. He’s not Fisk, but they can keep him just 1 more year if he falls way off. Catcher is tough and not cheap to find a clearly better sure thing.
Jose Abreu won’t break the bank with a contract extension. He is also a luxury in the system with so many other players and prospects who might ultimately fit into the role of 1B/DH. My best guess is that the team will work something out with their current “face of the franchise” and he will remain on board for at least one more season in 2020 by either accepting the White Sox qualifying offer in November OR negotiating a lesser AAV deal for 3 years or so. Abreu still holds value to the White Sox with his HR/RBI bat but even more so as a clubhouse mentor for Yoan Moncada and Eloy Jimenez, not to mention soon to be arriving Cuban Luis Robert. Abreu can keep 1B warm for Andrew Vaughn in 2020 and perhaps slide into more of a DH role after that. I view Abreu as the White Sox special Cuban envoy, just as Minnie Minoso became their ambassador for so many decades after his many retirements on the South Side.
As for James McCann, the White Sox will likely hold on to him for his final arbitration season in 2020 unless they are blown away with an offer in the next 9 days. If the White Sox expect to contend next season it won’t happen with a catching tandem of Zack Collins and Seby Zavala. In the unlikely event that McCann is dealt in the coming days I would expect the White Sox to go hard after pending FA Yasmani Grandal who they reportedly had interest in last winter before he accepted that one year pillow contract with the Brewers. Grandal won’t have the stigma of a QO if he opt out of his $16m 2020 mutual option this offseason, which is expected.
All great points mentioned above for both keep and trades. My view..keep Abreu and sign McCann. Collins would make a good platoon C/1B/DH in 2020. Hahn says he wants the next level of talent to restock the minors means 19/20/21 year olds. Garcia has great value due to his versatility allows more pitching depth on a MLB roster down the stretch. Colome may be more of a “I don’t want the Rays or Cards to get him” so Boston or the Cubs step up with an offer. Sanchez/Castillo have no value and Bummer/Fry you better be getting a future 3-4th starter back in return.
Anyone think it’s plausible to trade for Betts? That team needs a big shake up and do the Red Sox really want pay him that big money? White Sox could throw the bank at him and make him the center of the outfield for years to come. Robert, Betts, Eloy sounds good to me. Maybe too steep a price? But Colome helps them now, Abreu helps them now, then add a prospect or two their way. Or do they wait to just sign him as a FA?
I would love it, but no way it happens. If they’re asking for pieces like Abreu and Colome, it’s because they think they can win now. Trading Betts would suggest the opposite. I’m all for signing him in 2021 though, assuming the strikeout on Cole this offseason and still have no payroll.
I think you have a better chance of getting JBJ which in comparison to what we have is a better Adam Engel.
I doubt they will sign Cole. Would they trade for Greinke? And what would they have to give up?
No
They have to get a top of the rotation veteran starter. Who do you suggest?
Wait until they know what they have in Kopech, Cease, Giolito, Rodon, Dunning and Lopez.
Then fill out the rotation with someone who doesn’t cost prospects AND $34mil per. at age 36.
Same goes for a guy the Astros are going to work to death and will want $150mil.
They’re smart, If they let him go, there’s a reason. Annual workloads like that are killers for 90% of pitchers.
They should. Been saying this since before the season was under way. If they were willing to eat his salary, wouldn’t cost much in prospect depth (supposedly). That may have changed now? Nonetheless, I’d easily throw in some of our outfield prospect pool to make that happen. Times ticking though. He’s not getting any younger.
No fan would wager on the White Sox signing Gerrit Cole this offseason. He will not only be sought by virtually every big market glamor team but will also have the stigma of a QO. I don’t see the White Sox ponying up those kinds of dollars or forfeiting a second round pick along with $500k of international bonus signing dollars.
Zack Greinke would be a much better possibility than Cole. The White Sox are one of the few teams that can accomodate his remaining salary. The more they assume, the less they would have to forfeit in players or prospects which shouldn’t be exorbitant in any case. Additionally, the White Sox are not on Greinke’s no-trade list.
The best bet to make for the White Sox adding a veteran starter next offseason might be Mark Buehrle “clone” Dallas Keuchel. He won’t be eligible for a QO after receiving one last winter. He should also command a contract well within the White Sox budget and offers the team a crafty southpaw in their rotation to slot in with all their young right-handed power arms. Carlos Rodon is the only lefty pitcher the White Sox have who can make a difference in their rotation and he will likely be unavailable until at least the summer of 2020 as he continues to rehab from his mid-May TJ surgery.
Greinke has a no trade clause I believe for limited teams. There is no way he would come to Chicago north or south. He has social anxiety and the reason he wanted out of LA is because of that. He’s a really good pitcher with a bit of a head problem. He is making his money either way. If he goes anywhere I can see Atlanta or Minnesota. Smaller markets.
Minnesota is on his “no-trade” list. South side isn’t. There goes that theory.
– Orioles
– Red Sox
– Reds
– Rockies
– Tigers
– Yankees
– Athletics
– Padres
– Giants
– Cardinals
– Blue Jays
– Angels
– Dodgers
– Twins
– Phillies
Here are the teams that are on his “no-trade” list.
Wow very surprising. Thank you for pointing that out. As good as he is though I would hope for a younger guy on the Sox. There has to be regression eventually. But I would definitely welcome him here.
Something tells me the Brewers will overpay to get him. They need someone to lead them
chicagofan1978: Zack Greinke was diagnosed with social anxiety disorder early on in his MLB career back in 2006 with the Royals. He has managed to overcome this problem and it certainly did not dissuade him from signing that huge 6yrs/$147M deal with the Dodgers following the 2012 season after spending 1-1/2 years in Milwaukee and 3 months in Anaheim.
Greinke did not opt out of the last 3 seasons in LA and go to Phoenix because of anxiety. He did it because he was great in LA and garnered an even bigger 6yrs/2016.5M FA contract with the Diamondbacks.
We’re not on his no-trade list. He can’t refuse.
They can probably just get it done with Greinke’s entire contract and two or three nobodies. Take Yasmany Tomás’s dead money off their hands while you’re at it, and give him the short side of an OF/1B/DH time share. He mashes lefties, and it allows Reed to sit against lefties. Reinsdorf would have to pay about $17 million in 2019, $52 million in 2020, and $35 million in 2021, but IIRC, Hahn said that the Machado money would be spent. Well, Rick, it’s time to call Reinsdorf’s bluff.
Get Greinke and sign Bumgarner, and all of a sudden 2020 looks like a chance to compete.
This season is a wrap. Cease is the future for the Sox. Might as well get what you can for Colome now.
Sorry, meant Cease is the future CLOSER for the Sox.
Hardly. His arsenal needs much work. Slider is average. I’d ditch the slider. Should stick with his curve. Change shows promise. Fastball control leaves alot to be desired so far. I like him as a starter though. Too talented to just throw him in the pen. Rodon on the other hand…
Been clamoring for him to be an Andrew Miller (in his prime) sort of piece. Good fastball, slider combination. Wipeout stuff at times. Can’t stay healthy as a starter. Would be an excellent bullpen piece.
I say Tyler Johnson is the future closer.
Some White Sox fans were spouting the same thing about Michael Kopech that you are saying regarding Dylan Cease.
You can rest assure that the White Sox will exhaust every opportunity to keep both Kopech and Cease as starting pitchers before they consider either as future bullpen pieces. When an organization has two elite arms with their TOR potential it would be ludicrous to even think about such a demotion.
Additionally, the White Sox already have a number of candidates in their system who are being groomed for late inning bullpen duty including two former first round picks Zack Burdi and Carson Fulmer in addition to 2nd round selection Alec Hansen. The system also boast 3 more late inning relievers in their top-30 prospect list, Ian Hamilton, Tyler Johnson and Codi Heuer. Current starting pitcher Reynaldo Lopez would also be a candidate for an eventual bullpen role before any thought is given to moving Kopech or Cease there.
On paper Giolito is your #1 and your hoping that a combination of Cease, Kopech, Rodon or Lopez emerge for spots #2 and #3. If we trade Colome, Garcia and Bummer I better see the return be all pitchers in the top 30 of other teams prospect charts.
Who they trade should be dependent on return. What the team does not need are more AA relievers or poor-contact corner infielders who need to be placed on the 40-man roster, especially if Hahn has no intention of playing them this year.
If they find a top 100 talent who is ML ready, or a top player years from Rule-5, it makes sense. But that would likely require packaging Colome and another player, a la the Rutherford deal.
If it’s all for lottery tickets, it should be a hard pass.
The Braves just said they’re making Ian Anderson available via trade. Them contending + their need for bullpen help? I’d trade Colome for Anderson straight up without thinking twice. Kid is tearing it up in AA as a 21 year old, and can be ready to dip his toes in the show as early as June 2020.
Agreed…looks like he has a Dylan Cease type pedigree to him. If not I’d take a combination of any 2 pitchers in their top 15 prospects.
Waters may be close to untouchable prospect for Atl, but he would be a convenient left-hand bat to play RF if the Sox pushed that direction.
I can see the White Sox lining up with the Braves in a number of trade scenarios including one involving left-handed hitting CF Ender Inciarte who recently came off of the IL. The Braves have a glut in their outfield and Inciarte is controllable for 3 more season beyond 2019. He is making a fair amount of money which the Braves might not want to pay for a 4th OF who has burned a few bridges with the fans in Atlanta.
Inciarte is still just 28 and a 3-time Gold Glove center fielder. He has also demonstrated an ability to be an offensive force in his career with 10+ HR pop and 20+ SB numbers in addition to the 210 hits he posted in 2017 that resulted in a .304/.350/.409 triple slash. With the White Sox he can arguably become the best #9 hitter in MLB once Luis Robert and Nick Madrigal make their debuts atop the White Sox batting order later this season or early next year. Robert could move to RF where he might ultimately profile even better than in CF anyway.
An outfield alignment of Eloy Jimenez in LF, Inciarte in CF and Robert in RF could be something special. Adding that mix to an infield of Yoan Moncada at 3B, Tim Anderson at SS, Nick Madrigal at 2B and Andrew Vaughn at 1B could provide the White Sox with a very dynamic batting order in the next year or two. Extending James McCann to catch and Jose Abreu to share DH/1B duties could be the frosting on the White Sox cake or the cherry on top of their future sundae.
If the white trade Abreu,Gracia,Colome and Yolmer, they looking at another 90 to 100 loss season to continue a losing culture. This is going to continue under JR sell the team.. Hahn is a money man not baseball. man,
It’s always good to have a smart money man in the front office. Rick Hahn has a Harvard Law degree as well as an MBA in business management. He was a player agent associate before being hired to the White Sox front office staff. As Kenny Williams assistant GM, Hahn negotiated those team-friendly contract extensions to Chris Sale and Jose Quintana and has continued to do so as GM with the subsequent deals for Adam Eaton, Tim Anderson and Eloy Jimenez.
Of course, Hahn has demonstrated more than just an ability to sign players. He was promoted to GM in 2013 and helped orchestrate the signing of international FA Jose Abreu and the trade for Eaton. The following offseason he was considered the “unofficial” winner of the Winter Meetings with a flurry of trades and FA signings that many pundits thought would elevate the White Sox to serious contenders instead of usual pretenders. It might have helped to have launched then manager Robin Ventura but nobody is perfect. lol
Hahn was also responsible for finally convincing Jerry Reinsdorf and Kenny Williams to abandon the organizations’ annual retool and reload mode for an all-out rebuild plan. Hahn was the front office exec most responsible for expediting that rebuild with the savvy trades that transformed a bottom-ten farm system into a top-5 one in short order. He was lauded by many of the same pundits for the three trades that netted the White Sox 8 top prospects in Yoan Moncada, Michael Kopech, Luis Alexander Basabe, Lucas Giolito, Reynaldo Lopez, Dane Dunning, Eloy Jimenez and Dylan Cease, with 6 already making their presence felt on the MLB active roster. The signing of yet another international FA in Luis Robert along with the two most recent June Drafts that added advanced college bats in Nick Madrigal and Andrew Vaughn have also put the White Sox in a position to contend sooner rather than later.
@Aaron Sapoznik
Absolutely, Hahn’s been a great addition to the Sox FO. I guess it depends on your definition of Blue Chip prospect, but let’s say for sake of argument it’s a Top 20 overall prospect (and I’ll use MLB.com in this case).
Just in the 3 big trades of the rebuild, the Sox got 5 Blue Chips in return (Moncada, Eloy, Giolito, Cease, Kopech) and two other borderline Blue Chips (Lopez and Dunning, who could still eventually become one). Add the Robert signing, that’s 6. Madrigal will most likely be the 7th Blue Chip when the next list comes out this Winter, and it’s way too early, but Vaughn could easily be the 8th.
Add to that Abreu, who easily would’ve been one had he not started immediately in Chicago after the signing (plus, he might have been too old to make the list). Add TA, who was a Top 50 overall prospect. That’s a lot of Blue Chips and Top 50 prospects. Even Rodon was a Blue Chip (though that one didn’t really work out). Technically, Collins, Rutherford, and Fulmer were Top 50 at one point, but I won’t count them until/if they prove they belong in MLB.
That’s a nice nucleus Hahn’s built. 5 Blue Chips/Top 50’s for the rotation, 2 of the 3 OF’s are Blue Chips, and all 4 IF’s are Blue Chips or Top 50’s. That leaves the 3rd OF, C, and DH on offense and of course the bullpen.
Hahn has been GM for six years. Six losing seasons. Degrees are fine..But do they win games.. It’s the whole wait till 2020. Until one of the players goes “Chris Sales” and they clean the house again. Then we can wait till 2025. I do hope they trade Abreu to a team, who wants to win. Enough of the geek stuff. Players are human beings, not chips.
@kane59
Silly post.
6 losing seasons? Sure, though these last 3 are from a deep rebuild. I don’t know how many teams have been above .500 when their team got gutted in a deep rebuild. Oh wait, I do know how many. Zero.
You really think one of these guys are going to go a “Chris Sale”? Which one? I don’t see where any of these guys are disgruntled.
Don’t worry, you don’t have to wait much longer until 2020. Look at the calendar, 2020 is next season.