Yesterday marked the one-year anniversary of Eloy Jiménez’s MLB debut. With that in mind, it’s an interesting time to look back at the blockbuster crosstown deal that brought the 23-year-old slugger to the South Side.
Jiménez wasn’t the headlining name of that July 2017 swap. That was José Quintana, with good reason. The southpaw had emerged as one of the game’s most consistent, reliable starters. True, he always played second fiddle to Chris Sale, but he was perhaps the game’s preeminent #2. Over the three-plus seasons preceding the deal, Quintana combined for a 3.47 ERA/3.31 FIP with no injury history to speak of. Equally as appealing, the hurler was controlled at well below market rates through 2020 thanks to an early-career extension.
The appeal for the Cubs was apparent. They had a superlative position player core that had carried them to the 2016 World Series. The starting rotation was already a strength, but one with some question marks on the horizon. Jake Arrieta and John Lackey were each approaching free agency, and it was fair to wonder for how much longer Jon Lester could post ace-level production. Locking in a cheap, young rotation stalwart like Quintana made perfect sense for that season and beyond.
It came at a hefty price. Jiménez, Baseball America’s #14 prospect entering that season, centered the package for the White Sox. Alongside him came another top 100 prospect, flamethrowing right-hander Dylan Cease. It was easy to see the South Siders’ thinking, too. Never able to build a competent roster around Sale, Quintana, Adam Eaton and José Abreu, the Sox had already pivoted to a teardown. Abreu stuck around, but the rest of the core was shipped off for future assets. It was a fascinating, if mutually-understandable swap, with the clubs’ crosstown rivalry no doubt adding intrigue. How have things actually played out?
To some extent, as expected. Quintana has remained remarkably durable and taken the ball every fifth day. That’s been especially useful for a team whose concerns about its long-term pitching outlook have generally proven true. Lester, Kyle Hendricks and Quintana have each been dependable, while big ticket free agent Yu Darvish has had some extreme highs and lows.
Despite a deluge of recent early-round picks on college arms, though, the Cubs haven’t established any sort of pitching pipeline from the farm system to supplement that quartet. On the one hand, that lack of cheap, in-house pitching makes acquiring Quintana all the more meaningful. Yet it’s also played some role in keeping the Cubs from reaching the dynastic heights some had anticipated.
Since the deal, the Cubs have been solid, but not quite at the level one could’ve reasonably hoped for. That characterization also applies to Quintana himself. The Colombian lefty has given the Cubs 400+ innings of 4.23 ERA/3.95 FIP ball. That’s about league average production on a rate basis. With his exceptional durability, he’s a valuable pitcher, especially relative to his contract. But he hasn’t pitched at the level he showed on the other side of town. Now 31, Quintana’s entering the final season (assuming there is a season) of the aforementioned extension. He’s a plausible but uncertain candidate for a qualifying offer next winter, which could allow the Cubs to add a draft pick.
Even if Quintana does net a compensatory pick, that player won’t project to be anywhere near the level of Jiménez. (That, of course, is what the Cubs expected, since there was always going to be a high price to pay for a pitcher of Quintana’s caliber). Not only did Jiménez continue to thrive in the White Sox’s system, he’s already found major league success.
Last season, Jiménez hit .267/.315/.513 (116 wRC+) with 31 home runs in 504 plate appearances. He’s not without his flaws; he didn’t rate well in left field and could perhaps stand to be a little more patient at the plate. Yet there’s no questioning Jiménez’s massive power upside, and he certainly looks the part of a potential middle-of-the-order force. Clearly, the White Sox expect him to be just that, having inked him to a $43MM guarantee that could keep him in Chicago through 2026. So continues the long line of early-career extensions the organization has amassed in recent years. Those deals (Quintana’s included) have paid huge dividends on the whole.
Cease, too, has a shot at emerging as a long-term asset. He raised his stock immediately after the trade with a strong season and a half in the minors. That didn’t translate in his first 14 MLB starts last season, but there are things to dream on. Cease posted a solid 24.9% strikeout rate as a rookie while averaging 96.5 MPH on his fastball. His is a higher-variance profile than Jiménez’s, but the Sox surely hope he can emerge as a useful arm in the near future, even if as a reliever.
With the benefit of hindsight, it’s probably fair to say the Cubs wouldn’t make this deal again. It was a perfectly defensible move at the time, and Quintana has capably filled a key need on the roster. It’s not a disaster, as a few of the front office’s free agent moves have been. But Quintana’s slight regression on the North Side, combined with Jiménez’s continued blossoming offensively, looks to have tipped the scales in the White Sox’s favor.
partyatnapolis
even a mid tier prospect would have been an overpay for quintana.. but to give up jimenez was just plain stupid.
SaberSmuckers
Your comment doesn’t make sense. Quintana was a much better pitcher for the White Sox. At the time, the deal made sense, far from stupid.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Quintana had struggled in the first half of the year he was traded. I would have been satisfied with just Jimenez. It was getting Cease as well that really tipped it in the Sox’ favor, even at the time.
That said, a consistent and durable #2 on a team-friendly deal has a significant value, especially when not all prospects hit. Sure, there are guys who made good like Acuna (and, I hope, Jimenez), but there are also guys who never succeed in the majors or who flame out quickly.
The Sox appear to have won the trade, but it was no guarantee at the time and the Cubs’ need was clear.
Cubguy13
Hindsight is 20/20
ChiSox_Fan
I think this site looking for some heated Sox-Cubs discussion to raise ratings.
Cubs made a stupid trade.
I will wait until 2021 when baseball resumes to reengage in some serious Sox vs. lowly Cubbies discussion.
They should suspend this site until then.
ASapsFables
Giving up baseball and this site now would be like a smoker, alcoholic or drug addict going “cold turkey”. I don’t have that kind of willpower as a baseball junkie!
JustCheckingIn
Wait… you’re gonna be quiet until the season starts!?!
Omg someone stop the presses
wordonthestreet
But no one is forcing you to come here until the 2021 season either
Dogbone
What could a Sox fan contribute to a conversation about winning baseball? It’s been what, about 10 years since Sox been .500.
knuck2
Duh uh duh uh that was so funny I forgot to laugh
ChiSox_Fan
Blue skies ahead for Sox fans. Five WS Championships within next 10 years WITHOUT cheating.
Cubs won’t see .500 for next 10 years.
Likely will lose KB for practically nothing in return. Ha ha! Go fly your “L” flags.
johnrealtime
Counting your chickens a bit early. Lets see the White Sox hit .500 before you start gloating. Prospects fail all the time
jekporkins
Here’s an idea… why don’t you just go away until 2021.
DarkSide830
better than Shields or Miller trades in sindsight, but in foresight…yikes.
chitown311
Theo paid for a Cadillac but ended up with a Buick
Robert George
Buicks are nicer than Caddy’s, so I would say we paid for a Buick and ended up with a Cadillac
Alex S
Opinion based comment
smytds
All comments are opinion based
dynamite drop in monty
Ridiculous, borderline dangerous thought process.
oldtimer
I’d say barley a Chevy!
its_happening
Cubs were hoping to win another ring. Made the deal. Had enough corner OFs established on the roster. An understandable trade at the time.
Robert George
Trading a slam dunk superstar for a solid 5 is not how you win another ring
its_happening
Easy to say that in 2020 when Quintana was not a solid 5 in 2017. Nor was Jimenez a complete slam dunk. And yes, dealing assets to gain assets is how you win rings.
bigboybambino
I don’t think Quintana is a “solid 5”. Not too many teams would go into the next season with him as their fifth best pitcher. He’s been average if not slightly better due to his consistency to be on the field, and being average and dependable probably means you’re a 3-4 in a rotation.
SaberSmuckers
He was not a #5 when the deal was made, if you weren’t aware of that, the least you could do is read the article.
It was a market trade at the time.
DarkSide830
“slam dunk superstar?” Eloy may have been a great psopect, but slam dunk superstar is crazy.
Lanidrac
Well, if guys like Schwarber Almora, and Happ had developed as expected (as well as being on the hook for Heyward), where would Jimenez have played? At the time, the Cubs needed (and still do) pitching while Jimenez was thought to be blocked.
jdgoat
Imagine where the Cubs would be if they could develop their own pitching. I think their philosophy of build the bats buy the arms is the correct way to go, but you still need to have a bit of your farm system contributing to the pitching staff.
dynamite drop in monty
Yeah!
ASapsFables
I believe this notion of developing bats and buying arms is fueled by advanced analytics and not necessarily the best philosophy. A proper balance should always maintained regardless of current trends. If anything, I would lean more towards developing pitchers rather than buying them considering how much more fragile they tend to be in comparison to hitters.
Amateur signings generally run 50/50 when it comes to pitchers and catchers anyway. The Cubs prioritized hitting at the top of their recent drafts and with international free agent signings leading up to their 2016 World Series championship. This helped secure their first title in 108 years but they couldn’t sustain that success and wound up overpaying for veteran pitching along the way whether it was trading for Aroldis Chapman and Jose Quintana or signing the likes of Yu Darvish, Brett Anderson, Tyler Chatwood Brandon Morrow and perhaps even Craig Kimbrel when all is said and done.
Lanidrac
No way! If anything, the opposite is true: you need to build the arms first and foremost and then buy the bats when necessary. It’s one reason the Cardinals have managed such a long run of success.
Although, balance is still key either way.
AssumeFactsNotInEvidence
The cardinals don’t typically buy anything. Their team is mostly homegrown every single year.
whyhayzee
I’m not defending the trade but Schwarber was better in left field than Jimenez and Quintana was part of a fairly stable rotation for the Cubs last year (four guys with 170-180 innings). Longer term may be telling.
maximumvelocity
White Sox can put him at DH.
ASapsFables
Kyle Schwarber was a butcher when he started playing LF full time after splitting most of his early professional career rotating between catcher and the outfield. Eloy Jimenez had poor metrics as a rookie last year in LF after splitting much of his minor league time between the outfield corners. Schwarber improved in LF when it became his primary position. I expect Jimenez to do likewise beginning this season whenever it commences.
Lanidrac
That stability didn’t get the Cubs into the playoffs last year, though. Who cares about stability without results? No matter how many innings they pitch, Darvish and Quintana are shadows of their former selves, Lester is in decline, Hendricks has always been merely good but not great, and they have no good options for the 5th rotation spot or any depth behind them.
Robert George
This looked like a horrendous trade at the time and it somehow ended up even worse in hindsight. I know of no Cubs fan who felt this trade was “defensible ” at the time
SaberSmuckers
You should probably expand your Cubs circle of fans.
tomselleck
I’m a Cubs fan and I still see no problem with it.
oldtimer
The worst part is Quintana was a solid pitcher in the American League so coming to the NL should have been a boost for his pitching. Instead he just fell off the table! That’s counter to how it should have gone! He takes the bump on a regular basis just hasn’t done much on it!
ASapsFables
Jose Quintana didn’t “fall off the table” as you suggest but he did figure to post similar if not better numbers moving from a hitter/HR friendly AL park to a more ‘neutral’ NL venue while still in the prime of his career.
In his defense, ‘Q’ did have better continuity in his 5-1/2 years as a White Sox with a singular pitching coach in Don Cooper. In Quintana’s 2-1/2 years with the Cubs under manager Joe Maddon he had 3 different pitching coaches in Chris Bosio (2017), Jim Hickey (2018) and Tommy Hottovy (2019). I believe most of the Cubs pitchers have suffered with so much change in the coaching staff to say nothing of the hitters who have also endured a new hitting coach in virtually every season under their former genius in the dugout.
TheReal_DK
This was the deal that changed the White Sox trajectory imo. Quintana was solid for the Sox, for a guy who didn’t really have swing and miss stuff he was extremely consistent and reliable. The Sox inked him to a pretty cost friendly contract that made him an even more attractive trade chip. The Sox maximized his value at a time where cost controlled starting pitchers for a contender were at a premium. I think had the Cubs simply sent a lesser haul to the White Sox, Cub fans expectations wouldn’t have been as high but fans truly thought they were getting a cost controlled #2 and I don’t think Quintana was ever that.
I don’t even think Quintana has really regressed that much, anyone that has watched Q over the course of his career knows he simply is what he is, it’s just the fact the Sox were able to convince the Cubs brass that a 28 year old with 3 years left on an affordable deal was enough to be considered a premium acquisition at the deadline. It was a pretty penny to pay for a high floor/low upside starting pitcher.
richt
“Cease, too, has a shot”
Why not just say “also” instead of “too” and not write something so awkward sounding and looking?
dynamite drop in monty
Write your own damn article.
whyhayzee
Why not say “You’re free to write your own damn article” which sounds like a more complete sentence?
lilojbone
Even though this comment was not meant for me, I am going to write my own article, and it is going to have black jack and hookers … on second thought — screw the article!
Dumpster Divin Theo
Hee
Gocubsgo1986
This was a big mistake. Theo should have read the room and saw that the hunger was gone. I could see it through a tv. They went to the nlcs on talent that year but could tell that something was missing.
mike127
If you could see it through a TV and are making anything less than Theo’s salary in what you do, I can see you must have problems living with yourself. With all your knowledge about baseball through a TV screen you should be pounding on about 30 MLB doors. (And you didn’t need a TV screen to understand what was missing was Eloy Jimenez in the 2017 NLCS).
Dumpster Divin Theo
The hunger was gone thanks to beer and chicken. Lester and Beckett say hi
Blah blah blah
What makes this deal more tangible is that Jimenez, a butcher in the field, is destined for DH , and if he can’t do anything more than hit HRs, a replaceable one. And Cease, with only 2 plus pitches, inconsistent control, and struggles to maintain his great stuff late in the game, looks primed for a closer role, also limiting his ceiling. Though if these two can become a starting LF and starting pitcher respectively, the deal becomes a fleece…
maximumvelocity
If Jimenez is a DH, and Cease ends up as a back end bullpen guy, and they are both productive in those roles, it’s still a win for White Sox. Q’s only value was as a trade piece. No point in having him through rebuild.
Blah blah blah
a win, but a small one. Of course this is influenced by Quintana’s inexplicable decision to start sucking after being dealt.
southpaw2153
Quintana was ” the game’s preeminent #2 ”
HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHA
Right behind the game’s preeminent #1 starter Chris Archer a few years ago. Lolololol
jdgoat
How do you look at what he did and act as though that’s a false statement? The Scherzer-Strasburg combo is probably the only one that topped the White Sox Sale-Q combo.
Sideline Redwine
lol sure.
dynamite drop in monty
Relax
jdgoat
And you also don’t know what preeminent means.
mlb1225
Quintana 2013-2016: 3.35 ERA, 3.34 FIP, 1.224 WHIP, 3.75 SIERA, 117 ERA+, 7th in pitcher fWAR. These aren’t good #2 starter numbers to you?
Sideline Redwine
lies, d*mn lies, and statistics. He never pitched in pressure situations, which showed once he made it to the big time (no one cares about the sox except for their family members). He was never special. And to give up two stud prospects for him? It still hurts.
dynamite drop in monty
Statistics are the polar opposite of lies.
CONservative governMENt
Statistics are like a bikini. They show you a lot, but not everything.
retire21
Exactly monty
Cubguy13
Yeah cuz nobody can make fake statistics
Robertowannabe
Hey, @ mlb1225, do you remember who the Sox were supposedly asking for from the Pirates in exchange for Quintana? They were asking for Glasnow, Bell, plus another prospect. The local pundits in the Burgh were complaining that the deal was not done. Wonder what those pundits would have been saying if Quintana put up the league average numbers or worse under Searage and Bell and Glasnow blossomed ?
SaberSmuckers
Funny. You must not know anything about baseball if you are laughing that hysterically. Numbers don’t lie, consider looking them up before making yourself look silly.
He was a legit preeminent #2 starter, with a favorable contract – like the article states.
Dom2
Imagine if the Cubs had Jimenez and Torres today.
cosmo1
But no 2016 ring. Would it be worth it?
Sideline Redwine
I’ll take the ring over Torres, thank you. Yes, he is a solid talent and may end up being an all-star for years…but world series victory, would it have been possible without chapman?
Mikel Grady
Sure Bryant you get 200 million Jimenez you get 200 million Schwarber Baez Rizzo Torres all get 200 million . Can’t sign and keep them all . Theo got us a ring . I’ll take it , yankee haven’t with Torres sox with jiminez . How many have Red Sox won since 2016? Astros ? Dynasties and windows being open are over with free agency and trade deadlines . Go ahead and put nats down for multiple rings and scratch heads when they don’t . Rendon gone scherzer older strasburg get injured . Look at what dodgers gave up for Darvish and machado . Won nothing . Astros gave up for cole? Won nothing with him. Theo isn’t the only one to not always when a trade
Priggs89
I love how quickly everything has changed from “Theo created a dynasty” to “I’m happy we won one.”
Lanidrac
So an overcrowded outfield, Hoerner is blocked, and even worse pitching?
bravesfan
I remember people freaking out cause Braves fans thought Tehran was worth roughly the same as Quintana around that timeframe…. based on the results we were right. But, tooooo be fair……. I thought this was a bad deal then and didn’t think either pitcher was quite worth what ultimately pulled the trigger. Analytics did not work for this guy… eye ball test and basic stats could haven’t told u, he simply wasn’t the superstar everyone made him out to be
Sideline Redwine
Awful trade. Thought so at the time, too. Quintana is not special, and never has been special. Not just one but two solid prospects for an average (at best) pitcher?
Theo has done many good things, this was not one of them. Even giving up Torres could be justified because Chapman helped us win a series (never liked Chapman, didn’t like that deal either but understood). But this? dud.
Oh well, it gives the few sox fans something to beat their chest about. “We won a trade with you!” lol Yes, you did. But no one really cares for your gutter team.
SaberSmuckers
Do people not realize that numbers can be looked up? I’m amazed how many people are saying this was a bad trade at the time.
Quintana 2013-2016: 3.35 ERA, 3.34 FIP, 1.224 WHIP, 3.75 SIERA, 117 ERA+, 7th in pitcher fWAR.
“Average at best” – lol, numbers over a large sample size clearly say otherwise. Gutter comment.
Looking at it now, clearly the White Sox won the trade, but to say this was a bad trade at the time just isn’t an accurate statement.
Strike Four
Quintana has been worth the haul via his health and being slightly better than league average.
rocky7
Quintana, as we remember was being hailed by White Sox fans as a borderline #1 starter, and at least a rock solid #2…..he certainly wasn’t being hyped as a “slightly better than league average pitcher” based on potential performance and/or health!
Just another reason why metrics don’t begin to tell the entire story of a players performance….you need solid eval on the field as well.
Priggs89
That’s what he was with the White Sox. The North Side has ruined him. Maybe they should find a pitching coach that can hack it for more than a season.
vincent k. mcmahon
For those who play MLB The Show, Is Eloy worth a pickup in franchise mode?
hiflew
There are some players that are better on the field than in the metrics, but it works the other way too. Quintana was always a much better pitcher in the metrics than he was on the field. Much like Chris Archer. Neither is really what you want, but I’d rather have the guy better on the field if it is a choice between the two.
BTW – Eloy Jimenez is not a finished product yet, but his rookie year was not exactly earth shattering by any means, He was pretty much an average MLB corner outfielder.
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Sure, and he’ll never be considered a great fielder, but he also was injured a couple times and had a slow start due to pressing. If he can relax and stay healthy, that bat will more than make up for his defensive liabilities. He’s like a (much) more powerful version of Castellanos. Great bat, bad glove, still pretty valuable.
hiflew
I agree, he could end up being MVP-level. He has that potential. My main point is that some people tend to look at potential and just assume that everyone has already done it. When in reality very, very few prospects reach their projected ceilings. I prefer praising people after they have done something instead of when I think thy might do something.
chri
Is it fair to suggest that the only reason Theo Epstein still has a job with the Cubs is because of 2016? Him and his staff have blundered on several occasions in the three years since, although it does not help that many of his key players have also regressed since their championship season.
I have a feeling that if the Indians won Game 7, Epstein would have been out of a job by now and would be vilified across Chicago. While I do not think this trade ended up being awful, the transactions for Chatwood, Heyward, Darvish, Kimbrel, Morrow et al.. have proven to be blunders.
It does not help that Bryant, Rizzo, Lester, and Schwarber have all regressed, Russell never developed (aside from the DV matters as well), but to call Theo overrated is not the sacrielege that it once was.
whosyourmomma
Cubs fans plain & simply can’t admit they’re ever wrong! Most can’t admit their team or organization ever makes a mistake either. That’s until they they turn on players or managers like they’ve done dozens of times over the years- Sosa, Dusty Baker, Zambrano, Pinella, Soriano, Joe Maddon, etc. and most turned against Bryant already!
Unless Quintana is NL Cy Young this year Theo and the Cubs absolutely lost this trade and you don’t know baseball if you think otherwise. Sure if Cubs won 3 rings after Quintana deal that changes things but that obviously did not happen. The FACT is Cubs have gotten worse EVERY SINGLE YEAR SINCE 2016!
Cubguy13
So what you are saying is cubs fans defend their players and front office until they stop defending them? I didn’t realize that was just a cubs fan thing
whosyourmomma
Cubs fans are either too dumb or too ignorant to come to realization that certain players & managers are overrated or just bad. Only saw about 500,000 “cute” Joe Maddon t-shirts couple years ago but I knew his act would get old real quick, which shockingly it did. Cubs fans loved Sosa, til they hated him, loved Zambrano til he fought with his own teammates & coaches. Contreras & Baez are two extremely cocky players and Lester is a huge head case nowadays. Cubs fans will ignore those FACT though!
dpsmith22
I would think his time is quickly running out. Far too many poor drafts and questionable trades.
oldtimer
Very fair and I fully agree with your premise! I doubt his contract is ever renewed, much like Madden last year!
shirtlessJP
There are a lot of intelligent and thoughtful responses to this article about an interesting trade. Also, Sideline Redwine is here.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Debuting yet another screen name, since the 12 year old boy is jumping off the Bryzzo bandwagon
shirtlessJP
I have no idea what you’re on about, but here’s a question: What’s dopier, Sideline Redwine or his clueless defender?
shirtlessJP
Ignore me. I was confused.
Ronk325
One of those deals that already looks terrible and could go down as one of the worst ever. Jiménez looks to be an impact player for years to come and if Cease can reach his potential it’s an absolute slam dunk for the White Sox. The Cubs will regret this one for a long time
hyraxwithaflamethrower
Maybe, but how were they to know at the time. No prospect is truly “can’t miss” and Eloy’s bad defense and Cease’s lack of command may limit their true value. Also, Q’s numbers have gone up since he’s been with the Cubs while the rest of the team has underperformed. People would be viewing this in a more positive light if the Cubs were sporting 2 or 3 rings instead of 1.
Ronk325
Eloy’s offense definitely makes up for any defensive shortcomings and Cease will be no worse than Quintana currently is. This trade came in 2017 after the Cubs had won the WS so they don’t even have that as justification. Also I have no idea how you figure Quintana’s numbers have improved since this trade. He was a legitimate #2 with the White Sox and has been a #4 with the Cubs
hyraxwithaflamethrower
I can see how that phrasing was my fault. I was referring to ERA, FIP, SIERA, etc. Up is worse in all of those.
Ronk325
I see what you meant now. On the other hand though I don’t see any way this trade can be viewed as a positive for the Cubs. Jiménez is an impact bat and Cease will likely be at least a solid SP if not better while Quintana has been mediocre with the Cubs
dpsmith22
trades take a few years to form a real, educated opinion.
What you guys are missing and what the real story here is, the great Theo Epstein, is and was, way overrated. His inability to develop a single successful starter in 4+ years, is why the Cubs window is painted shut.
Afk711
If you go back and look at comments at the time people hated giving uo Eloy. Its really indefensible to call it a bad trade in hindsight. It was bad then and its bad now.
Jack Marshall
But, of course, “would they make that trade now, knowing what would happen” is so silly a question that it shouldn’t be asked. You can only fairly judge a trade (or any other decision) based on the situation at the time it is made. That subsequent, uncontrollable events change the equation doesn’t alter the validity of the original decision.
dynamite drop in monty
Lol you can’t be serious
Goose
Cease was the real jewel of that deal and he went bust. Jimenez is going to be a good power hitter but we don’t know if he will hit for average. His defense is meh. Torres was a tougher piece to deal but he was blocked and Chapman was big for the World Series run.
It is odd how everything Theo touched turned to gold and after the World Series win he seems to not be able to get out of his own way. If the Cubs flounder when baseball comes back I wonder how much more capital he has with bringing home the title before he gets let go. I just don’t see them turning it around as the cup board is bare.
house71
Cease a bust? Give me a break, He has only started 14 games in the bigs. Eloy defense is weak but I hope he can improve, but his bat is going to be dangerous for years to come. Thanks Cubs!
wordonthestreet
Jimenez was the prize in that trade and he will be around for years. Cease is far from a bust at this point.
Priggs89
“Cease was the real jewel of that deal and he went bust.”
That’s the most ridiculous comment I’ve seen in this thread so far, and that’s saying a lot. Congratulations.
whyhayzee
This is not Anderson for Bagwell. It’s not Slocumb for Varitek and Lowe. Teams make good trades and bad trades. This is nowhere near as one-sided as those two examples.
Priggs89
You sure about that? It’s only going to get worse for the Cubbies.
toooldtocare
Ok Folks, not on topic with this article, but wondered if any one can knows the answer. Watching replays of Rangers and Angels today, and looking at the FoxTrack strike zone box on screen. Doesn’t appear to me that it is being adjusted up or down based on height of batter, ie box comes up to belt on guys like Gallo, and the letters on Calhoun….just curious.
teufelshunde4
Quintana was never the preeminent #2, more like a #4 on a title contender, # 2 on a crap team.
Quintana has had markedly better teammates with Cubs then Sox, yet has bee avg at best. Perhaps Quintana’s best quality is to stay exactly avg no matter the team.
ASapsFables
The crosstown trade made oodles of sense at the time. I even predicted a trade of Jose Quintana to the Cubs as early as the 2016/2017 offseason for what was left of the Cubs top prospects at that time (Eloy Jimenez or Dylan Cease) and for one of their young controllable MLB players (Kyle Schwarber, Albert Almora or Ian Happ). I also recall being laughed at by fans on both sides of town who insisted that Theo Epstein and Rick Hahn would never consider a trade with one another that involved any significant assets for fear of a backlash from their owners and fan bases.
When the trade was finally consummated at the 2017 July 31st trade deadline I was vindicated and also somewhat surprised that the Cubs actually surrendered both of their remaining elite prospects in Jimenez and Cease. Being a fan of both teams and also one of Quintana my hope was that the Cubs would reap an instant benefit with ‘Q’ that resulted in another title during the final 3 years of his contract control while the still rebuilding White Sox would gain two more important assets for their own championship aspirations going forward. In hindsight, the Cubs window with Quintana is approaching closure with only an abbreviated 2020 season remaining while the White Sox looked poised to be one of the most dominate teams in MLB this decade.
At this point in time, it’s looking more and more like a lopsided deal favoring the southsiders with Jimenez likely to be one of this generations elite power bats while Cease still has the ceiling of an ace pitcher, one who I expect will duplicate the 2019 success of Lucas Giolito this season with the help of both Yasmani Grandal and James McCann. I also wouldn’t be shocked to see the White Sox sign fan favorite Quintana as a free agent next offseason and add more salt to the Cubs wounds.
Dumpster Divin Theo
Who did you make this prediction to and make all the sidebar analysis to. Your cat?
ASapsFables
I did it on this site and many others like MLB and ESPN when comments were allowed, initially during the December 2016 winter meetings when the White Sox began their rebuild by dealing their two other most valuable commodities in Chris Sale and Adam Eaton. I specifically recall my suggestion that Theo Epstein and Rick Hahn should consider exchanging Hanukkah gifts that December involving Jose Quintana and those young Cub talents.
I shared many of these thoughts with my Facebook and email baseball friends and can easily scroll back and find any number of comments made regarding a ‘Q” trade proposal to the Cubs between December of 2016 up until it actually transpired on July 31st, 2017, to say nothing of my “I told you so’s ” afterwards. My daughter and son-in law would also vouch for me as bi-Soxual/Cubs fans. lol
ASapsFables
Btw- I don’t have any cats, although I did grow up with many, along with numerous dogs during my childhood. My beautiful wife of 35 years prefers dogs and we have two presently as upgrades over our pair of children. lol
Unlike my daughter and son-in-law, my wife and son won’t vouch for the Quintana trade predictions since neither are avid sports fans. They will both swear that I spend way too much time discussing baseball and other topics with all my cyber friends.
I’d also be happy to make any of you my FB friends so that you can sift back through all of my old comments to find the Quintana trade references!
rycm131
Jorge Soler and Eloy could of been nice
PapiShango
Before Sox fans get too cocky over this remember it wasn’t long ago Fernando Tatis Jr was traded for James Shields.
soxx44
It’s a shame the Sox are criticized for the Tatis Jr trade. San Diego drafted Trea Turner #1 and traded him before he was ever in the majors in a 3 team deal in Dec 2014 involving Washington and Tampa.
I believe that deal involved disappointing Wil Myers and injury prone new Cub Steven Souza Jr. It looks like all teams make errors in talent evaluation.
ChiSoxCity
These comments about Tatis and Sox get repeated over. The fact is no one projected Tatis to be the player he seems at the moment.
In contradt, Eloy Jimenez, Dylan Cease, Gleyber Torres, and Jorge Soler were all highly regarded prospects when the Cubs hurriedly gave them away for pennies on the dollar. In fact, the Cubs have been known to give up on many good/great players prematurely throughout that organizations “illustrious” history. But sure, tell us Sox fans how they screwed up on Tatis if it helps you feel good at night. The Sox have enough young talent locked up to build around for five years, maybe more. We’ll be alright. The Cubs? Not so much.
PapiShango
It still ends up as a mistake no matter how you want to paint it. All teams make them.
wordonthestreet
Marcus Semien says hello
ChiSoxCity
Marcus Semien has worked his butt off to become a good everyday player. He was not, however, highly regarded as a prospect. Keep trying Cubs fans, you still have time to throw shots at your AL brother, but the clock is ticking.
Nick1992
Cubs fans want to talk about bad trades. The Cubs have one of the worst in MLB history trading Lou Brock to their arch rival. Every team have their bad trades but the Cubs have a lot of bad trades. One of reasons why it took them 108 years to win another World Series.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Be prepared for disappointment and 75 win average the next 4-6 years.
Nick1992
Prepare for the Cubs having a another very long drought. White Sox are better than average 75 win season the next 4 or 6 years. Especially the Royals and Tigers are tanking and the Indians aren’t far behind them too. The White Sox are looking at being contenders for the better part of the decade. The Cubs are looking at another rebuild.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Cubs are still a great team. The favourites to win the NL Central and 7th favorite to win the world series.
White Sox are good on paper but that’s it. Once the season starts and then ends. We’ll probably have 120 games for the season. At best they’ll be 55-65.
Cubs will win at least 80 games more if theres more than 120 games
Nick1992
The Cubs aren’t in the conversation to win the World Series. They’re not even favorites to win the Central. The Cardinals and the Reds are favorites to win the division. The Cubs haven’t improved during the offseason and they’re behind on the Cardinals, Reds and Brewers. The Cubs are looking at tearing down their team.
ChiSoxCity
Wrek, explain something to me bud. How can a team with no bullpen and barely average starting pitching be “great”? Also, explain to me how the Cubs’ hitting lineup is “great” when they still haven’t addressed the problems with run production? How will their offense look with no Castellanos to carry them? They don’t have an everyday 2B, and no real leadoff hitter.
norcalblue
Theo was at the helm when the Cubs won their first WS title in over a century. That is very fortunate for him, because his legacy as the Cubs’ leader will be defined by that one fact. Without that, this deal and others suggest he has been a poor decision maker In Chicago.
olmtiant
Norcalblue…….WITHOUT THAT!!!! 100+ IN ONE CITY AND 86 IN ANOTHER……(other than that how was the play Mrs Lincoln)
wordonthestreet
Yea BUT he did win the WORLD SERIES so with that the facts suggest he has been an outstanding decision maker over all.
Goose
I would say Theo made all the right moves to win the title and then made a LOT of bad moves after.
olmtiant
True Theo has made some bad decisions ,But that was not one of them.Again the Cubs have a championship with ‘Q’ – Same thing with Sale, IF elroy,mocada,and kopeck lead the White Sox to championship its a Win-win trade. If Not, i’ll take the 16-18 Championships over and over and over……..
olmtiant
Never mind…….Sorry Cubbies Q in 17…… insert Torres….. Without Theo Boston&Chicago would still be waiting……….
whosyourmomma
Without PED Jake Arrieta Chicago would still be waiting! Theo gets way too much credit but shockingly NO blame for their decline ever since?!?! I blame Theo far more than Joe Maddon. Remember when they were suppose to be a destiny???
whosyourmomma
I mean “Dynasty”. Think Destiny’s Child helped do choreography of their bullpen dancers.
Priggs89
PED? I think you mean hot yoga. Makes everyone jacked. Duh.
Munkes2
What trade was worse
Torres for Chapman
Tatis for Shields
Eloy/Cease for Q
Id say Tatis for Shields wins the worst one
Megatron2005
No way haha. Tatis was 17 years old and not even a top 200 prospect. Shields just won a world series with the Royals and the Sox needed a starter beacuse they were in contention over the summer.
The Sox stole Cease from the Cubs when everyone thought it would be Eloy for Q straight up.
Torres/Chapman is a split.
jimthegoat
Shields wasn’t on the Royals team that won the World Series and was clearly in decline when the White Sox traded for him. Plus he gave up the Bartolo home run.
ChiSoxCity
Don’t waste your time trying to be rational with a Cubs fan. They have no baseball I.Q., and have the emotional maturity of a nine year old.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Cubs won a world series with Chapman no way that was a bad trade. Yankees will go on their longest no world series draught ever. As of now its been 11 year after the overpay of Gerrit Cole it will be at least 15 years because he’ll break down and they’ll be desperate to get him off the books. It will be another Stanton and Castro deal. It will be something like Cole and Cash for ab Lweis Brinson type of player. Great potential but will never reach superstar status.
ChiSoxCity
They could have won a WS with any decent closer. They went big on the best closer in the game, and let him return to the Yankees after only 3 months. That’s why it was a bad trade. Many teams have won championships without giving away their top prospects.
jimthegoat
Cubs would have won the World Series without Chapman. He actually ALMOST blew it for them when he gave up that home run to Rajai Davis.
Priggs89
In hindsight or at the time of the deal? In hindsight, the Tatis one looks the worst, although the Q one could easily change that. At the time? The Q trade was by far the worst.
shoelessjeff
The Quintana, Sale, and Eaton trades were extremely solid, Quintana = Jimenez & Cease, Eaton = Giolito, Lopez, Dunning, Sale = Moncada, Kopech, Basabe. Most of these teardown type trades, especially three of them spaced so closely, favor the side that gets the veteran(s). Rick Hahn & the White Sox did extremely well for themselves.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
The Nats were ripped off in the Giolito deal. They gave him up for Adam Eaton lmao
shoelessjeff
The Brewers were rumored to be the Cubs main competitor for Quintana, at one point reports in the media were that the Brewers were likely to acquire him. I think the chance that this might happen drove the Cubs to make the deal. As a fan of both teams (Cubs & Sox) I thought Quintana would have delivered much better results than he has. I thought he would be a Jon Lester type solid #2, but he never produced or progressed to that level. I remember hearing about Schwarber being the main get for the Sox before the trade and I thought the White Sox would never do that. Jimenez was the main piece to get. Cease was a surprise inclusion, mainly because he had been injured and babied by the Cubs and was less than a reliable piece at that point. The Cubs seem to value their early draft picks (Schwarber, Almora, Happ) more than their international signs (Torres, Jimenez, Soler) like they’re more personal to them.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Dylan Cease was a throw in. Just like the Cubs and yabkees deal Chapman for Glayber Torres then other 3 were throw ins. Same with Starlin Castro to the Yankees for cash and Brenden Ryan was just a throw in. And immediately was fired by the cubs as they had no intention of wasting a 40 man spot on him
Priggs89
You don’t “throw in” one of the best pitching prospects in baseball.
Logjammer D"Baggagecling
Dylan Cease wouldve been enough but rick Hahn is a greedy little man and demanded eloy Jimenez. Dylan has yet to do anything he’ll be a mid reliever on a sub .500 team for the next 4 years. Probably traded within that time. wouldn’t doubt if the white Sox fire sale everything in 5 years. They look great on paper. That doesnt mean anything.
CFS77
Should have been De La Cruz vs Cease. You don’t trade 2 top 100 for a non ace.
At the time the Cubs were scuffling vs dominant like the year before. So this trade made little sense.
The trade for Hamels made more sense and was more in line with Theo’s stronger deals where he went in looking at it from a value perspective and came out of it great.
So in reality this is more about Theo in a jam and got taken advantage of vs looking at a deal that strengthened the organization.
WindyCityCubs
Quintana… an overrated 5 to 6 innings a start bum!
murillob
This trade was awful and has been since it came to fruition. Anyone who says otherwise has no idea what they are talking about. I don’t claim to be an expert but you don’t trade your top prospect and your top pitching prospect for a mid level starter just because he’s cost controlled. If we only gave up cease or eloy the trade would have been ok.