I wrote about the calamitous White Sox start on Friday, and over the weekend the team went 1-2, snapping a nine-game losing streak with a stunning seven-run bottom half of the ninth inning, walking off the Rays in the process. Even if that win sparks some momentum for a listless South Side club, the Sox are already nine back in the AL Central. They’d need to play at an 82-51 pace (.617) to get to 90 wins. It’s not even clear that’d be enough for a division win, with the Twins playing at a 95-win pace.
Early May is pretty early to be doing any forward-looking breakdown of what a team might have to offer at this year’s trade deadline, but the current state of the White Sox is a bit more dire than usual. Their playoff odds at FanGraphs have plummeted from 30.5% prior to the season to just 4.2% now. PECOTA has their playoff odds at just 3.2%. They have MLB’s second-worst run differential (-65) and are already battling myriad injuries with some glaring depth issues.
One of the most frequently asked questions over the past week in the chats we host at MLBTR has been one of who could be available if the Sox sell this summer. With that in mind and with an obligatory “it’s still only May 1” caveat, here’s a quick rundown of the possibilities and how they’ve begun the season.
Rental Players
The most obvious candidates to change hands if the Sox do indeed end up selling, all of these players are set to be free agents at season’s end anyhow. There are a couple of qualifying offer candidates within the group, so the Sox would need to feel they’re getting more than the value of a compensatory draft pick back in those instances.
Lucas Giolito, RHP, 28, $10.4MM salary
Giolito won’t turn 29 until mid-July and stands as one of the potential top arms on next offseason’s free-agent market … if he can round back into form this season and put an ugly 2022 campaign behind him. From 2019-21, the former first-round pick was one of the American League’s top arms, making the All-Star team in ’19 and securing Cy Young votes in all three of those seasons — including sixth- and seventh-place finishes in 2019 and 2020, respectively. During that stretch, Giolito logged a collective 3.47 ERA with a huge 30.7% strikeout rate and solid 8% walk rate.
The 2022 season was another story. Giolito’s fastball dropped from the 94.2 mph it averaged during that three-year peak down to 92.7 mph. His strikeout rate fell to an above-average but still-diminished 25.4%. His walk rate crept up a bit, to 8.7%. His opponents’ average exit velocity jumped from 87.8 mph to 88.8 mph, and his hard-hit rate rose from 34.5% to 39%. None of those are awful numbers, but everything went the wrong direction for Giolito in ’22. A huge .340 BABIP surely contributed to some of his struggles — being a fly-ball pitcher with the worst outfield defense in baseball isn’t fun — but it wasn’t a great season regardless.
Giolito’s picked some velocity back up early this season. His 23.1% strikeout rate isn’t near its peak, but his 4.1% walk rate is far and away a career-best mark. If the White Sox sell, Giolito will likely be one of the best and most in-demand starters on the market. He’s out to a decent start, and with his track record, age and upside, a qualifying offer seems likely, barring a disastrous collapse. The Sox would need to feel they got more value than they’d net in the form of a compensatory draft pick.
Reynaldo Lopez, RHP, 29, $3.625MM
Lopez has had a terrible start to the season, with an 8.76 ERA and five home runs allowed in just 12 1/3 innings (3.65 HR/9). He was very good in the ’pen in 2021-22, however, notching a 3.07 ERA with an above-average 24.8% strikeout rate and a 5.3% walk rate. In 2023, Lopez is sporting a career-best 33.3% strikeout rate, and he’s averaging a career-high 99.2 mph on his heater. His 14.6% swinging-strike rate is excellent. If Lopez who allowed just one home run in 55 2/3 innings last year, can get past this bizarre home run spike, he still has obvious late-inning potential and is the type of affordable power arm who’d appeal to other clubs.
Mike Clevinger, RHP, 32, $12MM
Clevinger technically has a 2024 option on his contract, but mutual options are almost exclusively accounting measures and are exercised by both parties with only the utmost rarity. He’s still just 32 years old, by Clevinger’s halcyon days feel like they were a lot longer ago than 2017-20. He missed the 2021 season following Tommy John surgery, came back with a diminished fastball and middling peripherals in ’22, and hasn’t looked much better in 2023, with a 4.60 ERA, below-average 19.3% strikeout rate and ugly 11.1% walk rate in 29 1/3 innings. Clevinger has gained some but not all of the life on his heater back, and his current 8.1% swinging-strike rate is both well below the league average (11.1%) and easily the lowest mark of his career. He’s pitching like a fifth starter right now, and not a particularly cheap one.
Elvis Andrus, 2B/SS, 35, $3MM
Andrus was great with the White Sox in place of an injured Tim Anderson down the stretch in 2022 (.271/.309/.464, nine homers, 11 steals) and has been the opposite so far in 2023, hitting .206/.274/.245 in 113 plate appearances with well below-average quality of contact, per Statcast. He can still play defense and has now shown a willingness to log some time at second base, so another club could look at him as a slick-fielding utility option. He’ll need to hit more than he has in the season’s first month, though.
Hanser Alberto, INF, 30, $2.3MM
Alberto has typically been a solid defender at three infield spots with good bat-to-ball skills, a bottom-of-the-barrel walk rate and minimal power. This season, however, he’s made some glaring misplays at third base and batted just .211/.211/.368 in 19 plate appearances before hitting the IL with a quad strain. It’s a tiny sample, but he needs to get healthy and play better to even make it to the trade deadline on the big league roster.
Yasmani Grandal, C, 34, $18.25MM
The switch-hitting Grandal has bounced back at the plate with a .241/.323/.446 batting line (114 wRC+) and three homers in 93 plate appearances. His 8.6% walk rate is well down from its career 14.5% level, and his once-vaunted defensive ratings have fallen below average at 34. Given his considerable salary, Grandal is only changing hands if the ChiSox eat a good portion of the bill.
Signed/Controlled for One Extra Year
Moving anyone from this group would signal a more aggressive seller’s standpoint from the front office, but the Sox would generally be able to retain their core players while also unlocking larger returns than they’d be land for their generally modest collection of rentals.
Tim Anderson, SS, 30 | $12.5MM in 2023, $14MM club option for 2024
Anderson batted above .300 in four straight seasons from 2019-22, turning in an overall .318/.347/.473 slash that was 23% better than league average, by measure of wRC+. The two-time All-Star is a regular threat for 15 to 20 home runs and 15 to 25 steals. Defensive metrics are mixed on his work at shortstop, but his only across-the-board below average season per DRS, UZR and OAA came in 2022, when he was hobbled by a groin strain. Anderson is a well above-average regular with All-Star potential and a highly affordable salary through the 2024 season.
The White Sox’ top prospect is 2021 first-rounder Colson Montgomery, who has become one of the game’s top-ranked shortstop prospects. He opened the season on the shelf with an oblique strain but could be ready for a big league look in 2024 after reaching Double-A as a 20-year-old in 2022.
Lance Lynn, RHP, 36 | $18.5MM in 2023, $18MM club option for 2024
Lynn, 36 next week, hasn’t been himself so far in 2023. His 10.1% walk rate is his highest since 2018 by a wide margin, and he’s allowed a jarring 2.20 homers per nine frames. The 94.4 mph he averaged on his heater in 2019-21 is down to 92.6 mph in 2023, and while he’s still missing bats in the zone and off the plate, Lynn has allowed too much hard contact when opponents do connect. Hitters posted just a .192/.238/.335 slash against Lynn’s four-seamer as recently as 2022, but they’re hitting .283/.365/.587 when putting the pitch in play this year. The 2019-22 version of Lynn is well worth that 2024 option price, but he needs to solve his home run woes.
Liam Hendriks, RHP, 34 | $14MM in 2023, $15MM club option for 2024
Hendriks hasn’t pitched this season but recently announced that he’s cancer-free after battling non-Hodgkins lymphoma for the past several months. Hendriks is one of the game’s best relievers, and the priority is simply getting back on the field. If he looks like himself, he’d garner interest.
Joe Kelly, RHP, 35 | $9MM in 2023, $9.5MM club option for 2024
Kelly has been on the IL three times since signing a two-year, $17MM deal with the White Sox prior to the 2022 season. He also has a 6.26 ERA and a 12.6% walk rate with the South Siders. He’s still missing bats, racking up grounders and has had improved command in his tiny 4 2/3 inning sample this season. The Sox might have to eat some money to move him even if he’s pitching decently.
Kendall Graveman, RHP, 32 | $8MM in 2023, $8MM in 2024
Graveman is still throwing hard and missing bats at a solid clip, but his sinker isn’t getting grounders anywhere near its prior levels. He’s sitting on a 38.7% ground-ball rate in ’23 after living at 54% in 2021-22 and 52.1% in his career prior to the current season. On a surely related note, he’s giving up homers at a career-worst rate (2.38 HR/9). Graveman’s first season in Chicago was solid, but he’s at risk of becoming another high-priced bullpen misstep.
Jake Diekman, LHP, 36 | $3.5MM in 2023, $4MM club option for 2024
The White Sox acquired Diekman from the Red Sox at last year’s trade deadline even though he’d walked 17.5% of his opponents in Boston, and the command has only gotten worse. Diekman has walked a whopping 13 of his 58 opponents (22.4%) in 2023 while posting a 7.94 ERA. Command has always been a weak point, but this current rate just isn’t tenable. If he can’t right the ship, it’s hard to imagine him lasting on the roster until the trade deadline.
Longer Term Players
Moving anyone from this bunch is tougher to envision, as it would effectively signal a larger-scale rebuilding effort. While the Sox could still move one or even multiple players from this group without necessarily embarking on a full-scale rebuild, these moves would represent a clear step back from contending not only in 2023 but likely in 2024 at the very least — quite possibly longer.
Dylan Cease, RHP, 27 | $5.3MM in 2023, arb-eligible in 2024-25
Trading Cease would amount to waving a white flag not only on this season but on the entire rebuild that the Sox went through from 2016-20. Cease finished runner-up to Justin Verlander in American League Cy Young voting last year and was so dominant — 2.20 ERA, 30.4% strikeout rate, 6.4 bWAR in 184 innings — that he might’ve won in another year where he wasn’t chasing a historic comeback effort from a future Hall of Famer.
Cease’s velocity, strikeout rate and swinging-strike rate are all down a bit this season, but not in glaring, concerning fashion. He’s sporting a 4.15 ERA, though practically all the damage against him came at the hands of the Rays last week when the hottest team in baseball tagged him for seven runs. Cease won’t turn 28 until December. He’s a power-armed, bat-missing monster with two years of arbitration remaining after the current season. Pitchers like this almost never get traded, and it’s extra-tough to see the White Sox biting the bullet and making a move, since doing so just feels like a giant concession. If they do reach that point, Cease could generate one of the biggest hauls in recent trade deadline memory.
Michael Kopech, RHP, 27 | $2.05MM in 2023, arb-eligible in 2024-25
It’s been a poor start for Kopech (7.01 ERA in 25 2/3 innings) thanks to wobbly command that has manifested in a career-high 11.1% walk rate and, more problematically, a career-worst 2.81 HR/9 mark. Still, he’s a 27-year-old who once ranked as the sport’s top pitching prospect and as recently as 2021-22 logged a combined 3.53 ERA, 26.7% strikeout rate and 10.4% walk rate in 188 2/3 innings.
Kopech spent nearly all of the 2021 season in the bullpen as he worked back from Tommy John surgery and fanned a gaudy 36.1% of his opponents in that role. He’s a high-upside arm and has already seen his average fastball creep up from 95.1 mph in 2022 to 96.2 mph in 2023. Teams would love to get their hands on Kopech right now, and if he can cut back on the walks and homers, his value will only increase. This trade wouldn’t necessarily be the white flag that the Cease trade would be, but it’s hard to see Kopech going unless the Sox are pessimistic about their chances in the next couple of seasons as well.
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There are other names to consider, though each comes with plenty of red flags. Yoan Moncada is signed through 2024 and controllable through a 2025 club option, but he’s been neither healthy enough nor consistently productive enough to make the remaining $43.1MM in guarantees on his deal feel palatable for a trade partner. Luis Robert Jr., Eloy Jimenez, Andrew Vaughn and Aaron Bummer are all signed or controlled through at least 2026 (2027 in Robert’s case), which lessens any urgency to move those players. As it stands, the Sox would be selling low on anyone from that group of talented players. No one from that group feels likely to be a serious trade candidate this summer.
Of the three buckets listed above — “rental,” “one extra year” and “longer-term” — the rental pieces are the likeliest to go. Selling anything beyond that point, particularly a face of the franchise like Anderson or a controllable Cy Young-caliber talent like Cease, would likely signal a step back and longer-term rebuilding effort just two years after the Sox sought to emerge from their prior rebuild. Owner Jerry Reinsdorf is as loyal as they come, but one can imagine that the current meltdown could test even his patience; GM Rick Hahn candidly acknowledged last week in public comments that his job is likely on the line.
The White Sox still have a couple months to try to turn things around, but if things don’t improve in a hurry, then many of the names listed above will the most frequently discussed players on the 2023 summer rumor mill as contending teams look to beef up their rosters in advance of a postseason push.
Trading any of Giolito, Lopez, and/or Moncada would really feel like a disheartening “throw in the towel” moment. Those were like the first three and largest prospects they acquired in the start of the rebuild, and not even that long ago looked like potential key pieces of a long term winning team. Trading any of Kopech or Cease would be salt in the wound for the same reasons. I truly am sorry White Sox fans.
I think hiring TLR set the Chisox back 5-10 years.
It’s right on par with the Tigers hiring Brad Ausmus at the peak of their competitive window – totally wrong guy at the wrong time. I completely agree with you – the team’s failures in ‘21 & ‘22 weren’t entirely LaRussa’s fault, but his presence only compounded the problems.
As a Royals fan, I doubt Pedro is doing much to help in that regard. Pedro had some praise for his bilingual and accessibly coaching style but he always seemed to be to lenient and unable to really get the best out of hitters. I really wasn’t upset when we lost him and it seemed like he was the FlexTape answer for the ChiSox’s sinking ship that was caused by TLR
bronxmac77;
Tony Larussa has had nothing at all to do with the way the Sox are playing this year…..anymore then he had trying to get them to play team ball the previous 2 years and was racked over the coals for it.
This is not just on GM Hahn, it’s also on POBO Williams and owner Reinsforf.
That organization under those 3 keeps putting out teams with no self-discipline, playing the worst fundamental baseball in MLB, while getting played up to and fawned upon. They like to jump up and down ;like 7 years-olds playing whiffle ball when they do something good.
Those players listed as possible trade bait……considering their salaries and shortcomings exactly what can the Sox realistically expect back for them?
La Russa is a footnote. The guys they chose for their core in total didn’t work out. The guys they signed to extensions (Moncada, Eloy, and Robert) when their window was opening would all be making less if they had gone through the arb process. And the free agent years bought out do not look like bargains. It ruined a lot of the payroll flexibility needed to make adjustments.
The farm system didn’t develop either. So, no upgrades could be made because they didn’t have the trade chips.
This one is on Hahn and he signaled he is ready to take the fall but probably won’t resign. Reinsforf doesn’t seem to willing to fire him. It will be interesting to see the deals at deadline and who will be making them.
It’s a poorly constructed team, nothing more, nothing less. The entire blame should be put on the front office. They spent too much on bad free agents and bullpen arms, stopped developing, and have a roster of one dimensional players. If they are smart they build around Cease and Roberts and trade everything else not bolted down.
Joe Kelly? Why? Does somebody need to fill out their IL? I’m still trying to wrap my head around why the White Sox wanted him as he was always injured before that. Graverman has been mediocre and Grandal is basically untradeable because of his contract. Why anybody would want a bunch of underachievers is a mystery. Good Luck.
Your correct uncle, half of the White Sox team are huge underachievers. Yoan Moncada, lol, what organization wants to pick up his remaining contract -all $42M of it. And what baffles me, are how so many so called ‘National baseball experts’, fail to recognize this.
And it’s not just his injuries – it’s more his dismal performance and lazy effort when he does play. And what contender needs to pencil Grandal, on their lineup card.
He was a 4 win player in 2021 and is on pace for a similar output this season assuming he gets about 400 pas…I think you could find teams that would take him. They probably wouldn’t give up a ton to do it though. Assuming he gets traded around the break, you’d have ~$37.5m guaranteed for about 1.5 years or $57.5m for 2.5 years if they pick up the option. It’s not cheap, but I wouldn’t be shocked if there are some teams out there that thought it was worth the gamble.
I’d be shocked!!! Very shocked.
If no one wants to take that salary, the sox pay part of it to sweeten the part. It isn’t complicated. On a minimum salary many teams would love to have him
Blow it up!
Sign ups for the Yasmani Grandal hateclub;
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http://www.offensivefirstcatchersareworthless.com
Sodo, for some reason when I try to click on your links nothing happens. Perhaps there’s a typo or I’m doing something wrong ? It’s sorta mystifying.
Ignorant SOB must like malware.
That was the signing that ruined it
The first FA signing in their new window.
I knew it was over when they gave Yaz that deal. Can’t blame Yaz. It’s Rick and Kenny. Offensive Catchers never ever work unless you can do it w this glove too.
Grandal never did it w the glove, arm or running a staff. Good at framing pitches.
Had a couple of years.
I remember how awful he was in the playoffs w The Brewers. Sheeesh
McCann had a great year, the year before. Called a great game, ran the staff, threw out runners.
Why?
Kenny and Rick needed a Left Handed Slugger – appeared Yasmani. On paper the wanted to balance the line up
He’s a Human Being, I’m not going to personally attack him. It’s on Management
That was 1A – 1B was
Rowand for Thome
Give BA Center.
Ruin the locker room and turn the line up into a Station to Station One Dimension team on the Bags.
Fisk in LF
All 3 are the all timers
Thanks I’ll hang up and listen to your answers. Have a nice day
The Dodgers got more out of Grandal than any team ever could have. They made no effort to bring him back, and that’s partially because Smith was on the brink. Defense was never his calling card, and now neither is his offense.
Everyone except Anderson
He’d be the first one I’d trade. Not because he’s a bad player.
I think the Sox should pick up Josh Donaldson, to play third alongside ‘Jackie’.
It seems like the White Sox would begin making wholesale changes in the front office before they begin trading off pieces on the field. Why would you allow the guys who failed at the last rebuild to start the next one?
Steve is going to be writing a similar article about the Cardinals in about a week.
I too would like to see one written on the cardinals.
I mean I’m not looking forward to it or anything. But if they get handled by the Angels the way they’ve been getting handled by everyone else, they’re going to find themselves in the same boat as the White Sox at least in regard to their chances of making the playoffs this year.
Because their perceived windows of opportunity are fairly similar, the W Sox and Cardinals should be on the phones, as we speak. The 2023 season is definitely over for the Chisox – and the Cardinals will go nowhere without picking up some pitching.
Giolito or Lynn – or both- should be on their way to St Louis. And a few of the Cardinals IFers should be headed to the S side of Chicago.
Gorman would fit the W Sox profile – he isn’t known for his glove work.
I agree with the Sox and Cardinals matching up, but St. Louis isn’t trading Gorman. He’s the left-handed power bat they have needed for a long time.
All rentals are a given, but the sox could get a nice haul for Cease.
Yeah, Trade the one guy you can build around. Was the last thing you built a house of cards on a windy day? LOL
Well he’s their only good pitcher signed long term. All the rentals will give minimal returns based on their performances this year. And the position players are mostly DHs and underperforming vets with no value.
Clearly you have no idea what the Cubs did with rentals.
Mike, why keep Cease? He’s a free agent after ’25. There is zero chance the Sox resign him. You’re rebuilding, why hold onto him? So you can lose 95 games instead of 102? Then watch him walk as a free agent? Cease could get a Juan Soto return and reduce your rebuild from 6 years to 3. It’s not like the Sox system is full of MLB prospects.
If you’re going to build something you need a solid base. I’d keep Cease and Vaughn and trade anything else that isn’t nailed down. Sorry Wood but I still think I can get something for Lynn, and Giolito at the deadline and maybe wait until the offseason to unload Anderson because you’ll get more. Bummer, Graverman( Someone will think he’s fixable and I’d unload all the so called Cuban phenoms they acquired. The only good one they had was Abreu. Moncada, Robert, Jimenez et al either suck or are made of glass. I can only imagine what Cespedes little brother will be. If he’s half the drama as his brother. As for the farm you’re right. For some reason the Cubs and Sox Minor league teams have been playing each other all April. They have a good young C I like named Hackenburg and a couple of P’s but that’s about it. They need to clean house as I have no idea anymore who’s actually pulling the strings. Hahn just fell on his sword, Unless Williams stabbed him with it and made it look like an accident. Rough sledding ahead.
I would try and extend Cease. Otherwise or if he’s unwilling, I’d start shopping him with a very high asking price.
I also do not believe the notion that anyone is untouchable. I believe the cost to attain some players would b way beyond practical. But there is a point where every player becomes expendable for the right offer.
Tigers, I agree to try to extend Cease—-however that extension needs to be at the very least right now about eight years and somewhere north of $200M.
Neither of those minimum starting parts fit anywhere in the White Sox history, mode of operation, or prayers.
Cease could get a Quintana haul, but not a Soto one.
Not trading Cease doesn’t equal “having a solid base” because he can be a FA.
@Mike, you are right it absolutely does not fit the way they have historically operated. But unless they get with the times, his clock is ticking and he is a depreciating asset every day going forward as far as trade value. And if they re unwilling to invest the $ to extend him, they re likely not willing to spend the $ this coming off season to plug their holes to become a legit contender. So this would b a good time to decide if they want to actual invest in their talent and build like a big market team, or start dealing and flipping assets like a small market team.
Tigers- You’re absolutely right. Look there’s nothing wrong with saving money. The Cubs spent money this year to bridge to becoming more like the Rays model. You build up the farm with draft picks and international signings. You build Pitching depth. Pitching depth is way more valuable than Hitting depth as the Cubs last found out when they drafted all the hitters and had to buy P’s. Having said that, Even if the Sox started today they’re 3 years behind the Cubs building a decent farm. Aces don’t grow on trees and if you start over It may take years to find another one. The Cubs will move on the next few years and become a cheaper team because they have pitching depth ALL through the minors back to Arizona Complex League. The Sox have nothing and Cease should be good until they can build up and maybe be competitive. So he’s worth the investment whatever they have to pay because even if they pay him their regular season payroll won’t be high while you rebuild. Just my opinion for what it’s worth.
@UncleMike, the sad part is they ve always been a cheap team. I agree it would take time for them to pivot and rebuild. I think they have more valuable assets than the Cubs had when they tore it down tho. Bryant, Baez, and Rizzo lost a ton of market value by time they were traded. And they just let Contreas and Schwarber walk. White Sox have a real opportunity to cash in on some controllable talent. I see them batching it hard tho and lingering in mediocrity before tearing it down to late.
Reminds me of Tigers with Fulmer. He just won ROY was way ahead of the rebuild and his value could only go down. So they sat on him and waited for it to plummet.
Limited control and a pitcher. Not really a great piece to build around… considering how much building will be needed
And they can’t build around someone that isn’t on the roster in ’26. Cease is a Boras client. He’s going to free agency. The Sox won’t sign pitchers to big, long-term contracts.
Tiger3232 got it right.
Actually, it is Giolito that is the Boras client. But Cease should go to free agency at this point because Jerry can’t bring himself to go over $100 million.
Then Cease is ACES or something? I would assume if Cease stays on the same trajectory, he could get at least $30M AAV over 6 years… At least?
If people think the Sox should keep Cease based on the hope that the Sox will sign that type of contract, that opinion is immediately disqualified. They don’t know the history of the team. There is less than a zero % chance the Sox lock in for that length or total value. ZERO
Sorry, I am wrong about Giolito. I actually can’t remember a Boras client with the White Sox – ever since the Bobby Seay debacle.
Cease went to Boras prior to ’22 season. Rodon was/is a Boras client
BR steered me wrong then. Forgot about Rodon, too. Thanks.
Trade the one guy you can build around.
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That only counts if you think you can build around a guy that is only there thru 2025. I don’t want to bash them with a couple of injuries and a couple of slow starts, but keeping Cease only makes sense if you think you can win in the next 2+ years. Otherwise trade him.
@Joe, absolutely. And if they aren’t willing to spend on Cease they definitely aren’t willing to invest next offseason to get over the hump. It’s time they choose a direction as a franchise. They are stuck in between being a spender and not being one, it’s a recipe for continuous mediocrity.
Wood- Cease is an ACE. I’m just saying what I think they SHOULD do , Not what they will do. Reinsdorf gave big money to a SP once and got burned so now it’s a never do again, which is an incredibly short sighted way to run a team but there you have it. Nothing long term, Always do it the cheapest way possible. Sorry but it was so long ago I forgot who the P was.
They only need a reload. A team with their financial abilities doesn’t need to rebuild. Trade every rental you can. Trade every 1 year remaining that brings a fair return. Use the savings and prospects to go after it in 2024. They have enough key pieces. I don’t think they have the front office to accomplish this though. Cubs do though, so maybe root for them until the sox get the right people.
I agree. I think they are more limited by the guys wearing suits than the guys wearing uniforms.
I can’t see the Sox getting any prospects that would be ready to compete at the MLB level in ’24 or ’25 from the group of rentals and year-1 guys. I’m not sure what prospect you’d get for Lopez and his 8.76 ERA. Are the Pirates going to give the Sox Endy for Giolito? The Mets Baty? Any of the 1-year guys worth anything need to be replaced. It’s not like this group has been 1) performing 2) healthy and 3) able to name the bench coach.
Any perceived help from the farm ain’t coming. The system is empty. Any pitching prospects are freshly drafted unknowns and are a long way away. The SS prospect the writer mentioned, will likely grow into 3rd. He reached AA because the Sox moved all of their top prospects to AA with 2 weeks left in the season and struggled. His impact is a couple years away at best.the rest of their prospects are utility or 4th OF types.
They would probably mess it up. You don’t get prospects to start opening day but you can get underperforming guys and coach them up, prospects for future and prospects to trade for mlb pieces. Main thing will be adding pitching from a nice free agent class. They need a new front office. I have no confidence in them pulling off a reload or rebuild.
They have a weak farm and 0 depth…unless they hit on every piece for shipping off rentals, a reload is going to put them in the same place. They’re a fundamentally flawed, poorly constructed team.
Based on ownership stage, front office, current roster – rebuild on the fly seems like Plan A. Maybe they’ll sack one of the suits to “satisfy” someone. I won’t be satisfied by that. Don’t care for your PR stunts that mean nothing.
Kenny’s passive aggression is also to blame. What a bad leader. Rick is working with some tight constraints and poor support system.
He now needs to turn to the Kenny model and hope to get lucky in the next 2-3 years with a super high risk core and a super high risk rebuild on the fly.
Sorry, no matter how bad it gets you don’t trade away Cease The WS aren’t far off from contending again and the problem is Hahn and new manager Pedro Grifol doesn’t seem like he is a good fit. This team seems to play lackadaisical and with no passion under his helm.
“This team seems to play lackadaisical and with no passion” just like they did with LaRussa. The problem isn’t with the manager, it’s with the players and team dynamic, or lack of team dynamic.
Williams and Hahn should both be fired, handing out the biggest contract in team history to a non-needle moving player, tying up massive amounts of payroll in the bullpen and extending non-proven, injury prone players.
It’s one thing for a team like the Yankees to give Benny 15 million aav, it’s another thing for the White Sox to do it. The Sox cannot afford to tie up tens of millions of dollars on his skill set, they cannot afford to spend 9 plus million a season on Kelly and so on.
Drasco , correct bring in Epstein and Maddon while doing a search for new GM tomorrow. Please no Ozzie b.s. , maybe AJ as manager. This team needs some chemistry like nuclear energy.
Where do people get that they aren’t far from contending? The only way that happens is if all their injury prone players somehow manage to dodge injuries and they don’t under perform in the same year. “Hope everything goes well” isn’t really a great plan as we’ve seen the past couple years.
Flaming –
Not talking this year but in general. This season is done.
My question remains.
Injuries happen to all teams. The players need to step up when injuries happen and so far that hasn’t been the case with this team. But they could retool for next year without giving up their core and still push for a wild card next year.
Their core are the ones that continue to be injured. Who is stepping up, they have no depth, that’s one of their major problems? It sounds like you are just speaking in cliches instead of actually evaluating the team.
I’d agree, they shouldn’t trade Cease. The very first thing they should do is clean house in the front office, and then secondly they should allow the new GM to hire a new manager. This is probably a list year for the White Sox, so let the new regime spend the remainder of this season making their own evaluations of the players. If they can get anything for the rentals, they should; but not a whole lot of value there. You pretty much have to just take the top draft pick they’re going to get and go from there.
Their season is running on fumes. Might as well get crazy and go Ozzie!
” Hahn and new manager Pedro Grifol doesn’t seem like he is a good fit. This team seems to play lackadaisical and with no passion under his helm.”
lamars;
Sorry, but that deserves an LOL.
A) 5-6 months ago when he hired him, Hahn said he was “excited’ to bring in Griol.
2. That team has been playing “lackadaisical and with no passion” for the majority of the Reinsdorf-Williams-Hahn era. They’re consistently one of the worst defensive teams in MLB. They do next to no situational hitting at all. They want to swing with all their might and hope the ball goes over the fence or to an open area. The baserunners routinely mess up. The pitchers are inconsistent. And all that’s without discussing the fact that they keep putting teams together with players that have those attributes. Heck, HOF’er Tony Larussa was pilloried by the media and fans for trying to change that (Bruce Bochy doesn’t seem to be having that problem in Texas with their ballplayers and FO).
3. The Kimbrel trade to “get over the top” 2 years ago was the final nail in the coffin. Took away an affordable 2B that was playing decent D and hitting .300; and stuck them with such a high salary they couldn’t make moves the next year….and they already had the best Closer in the AL. Maybe the worst trade I’ve seen in the last 10 years.
Samuel – Sorry, but your comments deserve a LOL
1) Who cares what Hahn says, they said the same about Rentaria and LaRussa. What else is he going to say?
2) The team was exciting to watch and was thriving under Rentaria and for some reason ownership let him go for an outdated LaRussa.
3) What? Kimbrel had an ERA of 0.49 and 23 saves before he was traded to the WS and all they gave up was a guy who was playing decent d and hitting 300. Sure they had the best closer in the AL but adding Kimbrel was well worth the gamble and gave them a 1-2 punch in the bullpen, If Nick Madrigal was so great why hasn’t he won the starting job with the Cubs? Nick and his career .286 avg , .335 slg and .687 OPS is nothing more than a career utility player.
The Kimbrel trade was the White Sox doing White Sox things. Sure, had it worked out the Sox would have had a solid 8/9 but why trade for a closer when you already have an established closer?
The Sox not only traded Madrigal for Kimbrel (Madrigal was injured at the time) but they also traded Cody Heurer.
I like Madrigal but Hoerner is a vastly superior player. I would say Madrigal would be a starter on several teams in the league given his skill set.
You mean the Codi Heurer who hasn’t pitched since 2021?
As For Madrigal, I am not so sure he would be starting on several teams in the league. Sure he hits
for average and maybe a good defender but he brings absolutely nothing to the plate.
Congratulations on saying you know nothing about baseball without actually saying you know nothing about baseball.
Nick Madrigal – Career 562 AB, .286 avg, 2 HR, 63 R, 43 RBI, .333 OBP, .354 SLG .687 OPS
So how many teams would he be starting for again?
Giolito in Angels uni?
So now that most of the dust has cleared, the Sale-Kopech-Moncada deal doesn’t look that bad from Dombrowksi’s side. And any team making a deal for Jackie is taking a risk. I can’t see Anderson as a fit in too many places.
Neither does the Eaton for Giolito, Lopez, Dunning look bad from Mike Rizzo’s side.
Cubs wished they held on to Cease though. Their World Series championship didn’t materialize.
What? Giolito was more valuable in 2019 than Eaton was his entire time with the Nats. Giolitio has provided ~14 fwar for the sox so far, Eaton provided about 4.5 for the Nats.
Not to mention they turned Dunning into Lance Lynn
Sorry, I was blinded by the light when the sun hit Rizzo’s ring.
All deals are worth it for a championship. In a vacuum though, the Sox slam dunk won that trade. The stars really aligned for the Nats in ’19
Are you seriously implying that they won a ws because of Adam Eaton?
As much as the Cubs won one with Aroldis Chapman. Nothing’s perfect, but if you reach your goal in the end, what you did to get there was probably worth it. Eaton was worthy of being a World Series champion in 2019.
Ohhh it’s began! White Sox fans talking about “winning trades”, I can only assume because it’s the only winning they can talk about. Enjoy stock piling all that “talent” at the trade deadline. Maybe in another 10 years the Sox will sneak into the playoffs again
If you’re referring to me you are wrong. I’m a cubs fan. Isn’t talking about winning trades what we do here?
I wasn’t referring to you but to answer your question, the only “winning” that matters takes place on the field.
Then watch the games.
You are against evaluating trades on MLBTradeRumors.com?
I’m against bases success on individual achievement. If Cease wins several Cy Young’s and the White Sox continue to be awful, who cares. That isn’t a “win”.
How is that not a win? It means they have an ace to build around and is under team control until 2026.
I just looked up “unmitigated disaster” and the White Sox logo was at the top of the search return. It has to be extremely painful to be a WS fan, as this was supposed to be the mid-point of their competitive window.
Remember when people thought Hahn was a genius for extending young guys early?
Barring a miraculous turnaround between now and July, they have to blow it up.
I thought LaRussa was the problem though?
He was a problem, but not the problem
Note: The White Sox actually snapped a 10-game losing streak with their potentially season changing comeback win on Sunday versus the Rays.
Nothing wrong with positive thinking but they would need to be back to .500 before the All Star break.
I tend to be a more positive White Sox fan then most. It probably comes with my advanced age and the fact that I root for two Chicago teams that have broken my heart more often than not since the early 1960’s. I’m used to disappointment.
Like every White Sox fan, my angst was off the charts last season. The miserable 2023 start hasn’t helped but I can temporarily be a bit more forgiving with a new manager and mostly new coaching staff in place. They seemed to be very proactive this past offseason but were derailed during spring training with so many White Sox players participating in the WBC.
I’m still pissed about the Rick Renteria firing but feel that the hiring of Pedro Grifol was a step in the right direction. Ricky had his boys playing hard and the vibe in the clubhouse was one of the best I have witnessed on the southside in my 60+ years of fandom. Aside from the Luis Robert incident last weekend, I do believe this current team is playing harder than they did under TLR. Grifol not only had to reinvigorate the clubhouse but also had to do it minus team leader Jose Abreu. I think the team will be fine with co-leader Tim Anderson returning tonight.
Injuries have been a huge factor since the conclusion of the rebuild and that trend has continued into 2023. That said, the team has at least attempted to alter their training staff recently. Hopefully TA7 will avoid any further trips to the IL and ignite the White Sox batting order at the top. I also hope that Grifol inserts Andrew Benintendi into the #2 slot and forgets about batting him third like he did to begin the season.
The most needed reinforcements will came later this month with the return of Liam Hendriks and Garrett Crochet from the IL. No component of the 2023 White Sox has been more dismal than their bullpen. Getting Hendriks back at closer and Crochet as his top lefty setup man should take considerable pressure off of the other relievers, to say nothing of their starting rotation. The addition of both, especially Hendriks return from his cancer ordeal should provide an additional spark to the team and the fanbase.
Getting back to .500 is the immediate goal of the White Sox. Their schedule is much more favorable with the added chance to finally play teams in their own division, one that has been the worst in MLB thus far. The White Sox are extremely fortunate that the Guardians have played sub-.500 ball and that the Twins have the worst record of any AL division leader. They get Minnesota tonight at home and hopefully will finally win back-to back games for the first time in 2023. A series win would also be their first of 2023. These are baby steps but the opportunity is here for the White Sox to significantly cut into the hole they created for themselves. We’ll know a whole lot more about contention or selling off come June 1st.
Pitt, Arz and TB should take a peek here. They have the minor league systems to make some trades
Facts on AZ, they need some help at SP and RP (less so in RP, but more high-impact arms always helps)
It seems like the salaries for most of those pitchers wouldn’t entice the Pirates.
ChiSox pretty much have to eat salary if they want a noteworthy return.
Moncada was a major bust
Sacrifice—you say “was” like he doesn’t have another year to continue to hurt the team. Do you have a better update on his back than they’ve been reproting?
Another year at $25 million.
Do you include Luis Robert in any sell-off? The Sox’ leadoff man was benched on Sunday after being pulled from Saturday’s game in the 2nd inning for not running out a comebacker.
Robert is a guy I would put a lofty asking price on. Still young and full of potential, with several years if control at a reasonable rate. No need to give the guy away.. but everyone on this White Sox team needs to be available, at the right price.
Robert realistically is worth about a solid AA prospect, an A Ball flyer, and maybe a AAAA type piece. His value has tanked. You ask for a lofty asking price, and you’ll get stuck with him.
I agree. Robert isn’t worth his contract either. A lot of teams would like to bet on his ability, but he wouldn’t draw a giant haul.
You have to wonder if the Chi Sox would actually consider trading him.
They still have time to turn it around this season but they need to be listening to trade offers of rental players now. If they get a good offer on Clevinger or Gio, they have to pull the trigger and shift focus to 2024 and beyond.
They need to trade with the Indians. They should acquire outfielder Straw to go with Colas.
Gasp, you said the I word.
You’re right. I need to keep reminding myself of old prejudices and hope I can chippewa at ’em.
Anyway, Straw sucks, so no deal.
✋How!
I-I mean… ✋ How?
I call them the Cleveland Gardenias.
Why would Cleveland trade their starting CF’er? And why would Chicago trade for Straw when they already have Robert locked-up?
The Sox could move Robert if he keeps dogging it. Nothing like benching or trading a highly touted star simply to send a message to the rest of the team.
You think trading an oft-injured star will send a message to this team? If a 10 game losing streak didn’t send a message, nothing can.
Trade them all and dump the GM and start fresh. Maybe take a page from Tampa’s book and build your team properly. I can’t imagine having so much talent on your team and unable to perform.
On most teams, it would be obvious that Williams and Hahn are out.. but who knows with Jerry?
They have to go. They went through a deep rebuild and tanked for years. Then came back and outspent everyone in a very winnable division.. all they could muster was a WC and a single AL Central championship. Now they are left with an awful team and one of the worst ranked farm systems in baseball.
Kenny and Rick aren’t going anywhere. With Rick telling everyone “This one’s on me” speech, he bought himself another try. Jerry loves someone who holds himself accountable while remaining a Yes Man. That’s how GarPax lasted almost 20 years with the Bulls.
If Hahn and KW cared about the fans they would stop trying to look smooth and simply resign. They dress well for being paycheck collectors.
Reinsdorf unfortunately doesn’t have a good track record of hiring sharp executives to run his clubs for sustained success. He hires loyalists and gives them incredible job security as long as the organizations make a decent financial return year to year. On field results are a much lower priority. That is where this dysfunction all starts. Michael Jordan really masked what would have otherwise been a brutal 40+ year period for the combined 2 franchises.
Reinsdorf has the same standards when he hires announcers too, as he does for executives.
There’s a difference between spending wisely and spendthrift.
What does ‘Berto from the West Side think?
There is no doubt the first month of the White Sox’s 2023 has been disappointing but I am just going to see what happens in the next two months. Divisions to World Series Championships are not won or loss in the first month of the baseball season. Injuries like the past few seasons have been a dagger in the White Sox’s offense and pitching, but look all of these injuries going on in baseball. The Yankees have at or around $100 million in salary on the DL right now yet there are no articles bashing the Yankees right now. Lets say if the White Sox get Anderson and Moncada back to help out the offense to the pitching actually starting to figure it out once the weather gets nicer outside that White Sox have a nice run in these next two months. My point is it too early to consider the White Sox to sell off their assets unless they have another abysmal month in May like April.
I’ve seen plenty of people ripping the yankees, maybe there hasn’t been articles about it, but they’re also 15-15…the sox are 8-21. I don’t think you’d see much about the White Sox if they were .500, either. Kind of a strawman.
When the team was supposed to be in WS contention in a weak division but has as dismal a start as the Sox have been having, they deserve every bad article regardless of their record.
Bee-
Unless you have been hiding under a rock plenty of people have been bashing the Yankees. They were even bashed on MLB Network today. Also, while that team with a $100 million salary on the DL and currently sitting in last place at 15-15, Has made it to the playoffs and a couple of ALCS series with that payroll. And could possibly still make the wild card once the team is healthy. The WS on the other hand are 8-21 and look the team looks lackadaisical under P. Grifol.
The Yankees are getting roasted over an open spit! What are you talking about?
trade everyone, do full and clean rebuild
In the last few weeks the White Sox’s bullpen blew around seven to eight leads late in the games. Thats something people need to consider that bullpen has been overused in April with two guys on the offensive side on the DL. All I remember in 2021 when the Braves lost Acuna early in the season to being around 9 to 10 games out of the National League East in June they made a few moves and adjustments to go on a run and win the World Series that year. Remember we have five months of baseball left!
They have AA running the team and Snitker as manager.
The WS have the second worst run differential in baseball. Denial is one of the stages though, good luck.
“Thats something people need to consider that bullpen has been overused in April …”
BeeVeeTee;
It seems like every teams fans are complaining about that this year.
The way baseball is being played in MLB is nuts.
Balt has second best record in AL. Texas is 3rd. Pitt is 1st in NL Miami cubs and dbacks are all over 500. While cardinals and Yankees are in the bottom of their divisions.
It’s way WAY to early to write off a team as good as white sox. Fire some people and shake it up a bit to reset.
Thats my point! Five more months of baseball! Do people actually think the Pirates will stay hot as they were? I always feel baseball is a week by week where teams to players get hot or cold. Its a long season!
Whiffa, but it’s not too early to write off a team as bad as the White Sox. How hard is it to envision that 2021 was the outlier of recent Sox history?
They have finished better than .500 TWICE since 2012—and one of the years they only played 60 games.
If you watch them, they do almost nothing well. Don’t defend, don’t run the bases well, don’t prevent teams from running on them. Starting rotation hasn’t missed a game yet—they have taxed their bullpen. They are eight behind in the wild card race and have to out play, by quite a bit, seven teams to get there.
The only glimmer of hope is that they play in a division, with the balanced schedule that we may actually see a team under .500 win a division, but at that I don’t think the 72-90 (on the high side) record that the Sox will be fortunate to post is going to win a division.
I’m sorry, as good as the White Sox? Based on…what?
Based on you don’t got to do much better than 500 to win the central. It’s not like it’ll take a 100 wins
…Did you even read this article? That exact point is addressed.
Also, not sure how that = the White Sox being good?
Big-
All those teams you mentioned are most likely finishing .500 orover .500. Whereas the 8-21 WS will have to go 73-60 for the rest of the season to reach 81-81.
It’s not too early to write off a team as bad as the White Sox have been. The bullpen is a mess and yes, they are getting reinforcements but their offense is anemic and the team is in trouble when Burger is your best offensive player.
I would trade all the rentals and Tim Anderson.
Cease to the Mets for Vogelbach, Escobar and Narvaez. 😉
That’s a lot of hamburger in return for Cease
I knew they were a mess, but didn’t realize how bad, The 6 rentals, and the one-year control players would get almost nothing but payroll relief.
Give me Tim Anderson, that’s it! Maybe Hendricks if he comes back strong!
Anderson to the Dodgers seems like a sure thing. I just worry about Hahn just getting more bullpen arms in the deal
Personally, I’d dangle Luis Robert Jr. and Eloy Jimenez. to see if anyone is interested in giving value for two injury-prone and inconsistent over-rated “stars.”
They would be a couple of Jorge Soler’s on the right team.
Yankees. They are always hurt
I was surprised to see how bad Eloy is playing this year. Even if they made him available, his current stats wouldn’t bring much back.
Especially for a DH Only
The White Sox have dug a hole of their own making, I was in favor of waiting at least another month, but it’s not looking good. This sucks but might as well dangle the Rentals and one-year guys, do a soft rebuild of sorts.
If the ChiSox are out of it, what are player profiles of interest for them?
Is it near MLB-ready players with lower ceilings? Further out players with higher ceilings? Developmental prospects?
Obviously SP are always desired over RP, but are they looking for position players at C, IF, or OF?
I ask, because the DBacks have a number of guys that they have reason to deal (too much talent accumulating on the 40-man) plus a need for improvement in SP/RP, and was wondering if any of the “non-key players” they have would fit a desired mold for Chicago.
DH types that they can try to force into a position they have no business playing and overpaid relief pitchers.
@flamingbagofpoop
These are the kinds of replies I live for; beautifully done
If the DBacks wind up trading them Seth Beer or Mark Melancon when he’s back, I’ll know that you actually weren’t joking
Keep CEASE everyone else is replaceable.
Could be interesting if they move them all.
The Sox can make a few moves here and there and have the same issue, lack of heart. You had one of the ‘can’t miss’ stars in Robert not tell anyone he was injured and doesn’t even know the bench coach’s name. Any other manager worth a damn would have went to management and asked the kid be demoted to AA (fairly sure Robert has options left.. maybe not due to service time) and if you cannot demote him, bench him for two weeks. Instead you hear Grifol just explaining that he is hurt so this and that.. ridiculous. If you let the patients run the asylum, this is what you get.. Heck they are still trying to bask in the come from behind win from Sunday, that should explain how desperate this team, and its cheer-leading section are at this point too.. Really sad what is happening on the South side… Maybe with the flurry of moves its waking the team up, but again they are really in a hole and I doubt this team has enough heart and character in the tank to dig out of it.
nrd1138;
Never heard about the Robert incident. I assume that’s true.
But your bigger point is spot on. Pro teams sports today are all about the organization. The things you’re pointing out about the Sox have been going on for the better part of 25 years now. Ozzie laid the law down, yet he had to fight his own management to do so…after fighting them to bring in players he knew were winners.
That team has no real leaders and hasn’t in years. Abreu and Anderson? It’ not just that they made errors on D and the bases, it’s that when things happen in the game they weren’t prepared to do the right thing. Which is inexcusable in baseball because there’s a break before each pitch, so all players on the field should be aware of the game situation and what they’ll do if they’re involved in the next play.
The “patients run(ing) the asylum” has been going on there for a long, long time. That’s not a coaches fault or the managers fault. It starts with the owner and the head of Baseball Ops. They set the tone as to what they want. That’s how organizations work.