The Dodgers and superutility man Tommy Edman have agreed to a five-year $74MM extension that runs from 2025 to 2029 and contains a club option for the 2030 season, the team has announced. The option for 2030 is worth $13MM and comes with a $3MM buyout. Edman will receive a $17MM signing bonus, and $25MM of the extension’s total value will be deferred and paid out over a span of ten years, starting five years after the deal is complete. Since Edman was already under contract for $9.5MM in 2025, the new deal is effectively a four-year extension worth $64.5MM in new money. Edman is represented by agent Jonathan Weiss.
Los Angeles was reportedly in the midst of “preliminary” discussions regarding an extension with Edman’s camp last week, and those talks have now come to fruition. It took the Dodgers only 53 regular-season games and 16 postseason games to decide that Edman was a player they wanted on the field over the long term, as the 29-year-old has already made a big impact since being acquired at the trade deadline.
The three-team, eight-player trade that brought Edman from the Cardinals and Michael Kopech from the White Sox proved to be critical to the Dodgers’ World Series title. At the time of the deal, Edman hadn’t appeared in a big league game following setbacks related to wrist surgery he underwent during the 2023 offseason. While he ultimately didn’t make his Dodgers debut until August 19, the switch-hitter made an immediate impression with the club as he seamlessly shifted between center field and shortstop down the stretch and into the postseason, all while hitting a respectable .237/.294/.417 (98 wRC+) in the regular season. In the playoffs, Edman went a level higher and hit .328/.354/.508 over 67 postseason plate appearances, and was named MVP of the NLCS.
By keeping Edman in the fold long-term, the Dodgers will retain a flexible player who can play all over the diamond and shift between the infield and outfield with minimal issues based on the needs of the club. That’s an archetype of player the club has coveted in recent years, as evidenced by their commitment to Chris Taylor and frequent deals with Enrique Hernandez. While Hernandez is currently a free agent and Taylor does not figure to be a regular fixture in the club’s lineup for 2025, Edman is joined by Mookie Betts as a player who offers the Dodgers plenty of flexibility in their lineup construction. A six-time Gold Glove winner in right field, Betts has in recent seasons begun to play an increasing amount of second base and even shortstop, and the club seemingly plans to play him on the infield dirt again in 2025.
With Betts, Gavin Lux, and Miguel Rojas poised to handle the middle infield for the Dodgers next year, that could leave Edman to patrol center field for the Dodgers on a regular basis next year. It’s a position he only picked up on a regular basis in 2023, but he’s been undeniably effective since moving there: he posted +1 Outs Above Average at the position in just 188 innings with the Dodgers this year after reaching an excellent +5 mark in 330 innings in center for the Cardinals in 2023. If he can maintain that level of defensive prowess at the position over a full season, Edman’s league average bat should make him a well above average regular overall for the Dodgers in 2025.
It’s already been a busy offseason for the Dodgers, as today’s Edman extension pairs with their blockbuster five-year deal with lefty Blake Snell earlier this week. With room to improve in the outfielder corners, holes to fill in the bullpen, and longtime franchise face Clayton Kershaw as of yet unsigned, there figures to be plenty more on president of baseball operations Andrew Friedman’s to-do list this winter. Having Edman’s plus defensive ability locked into center field for the foreseeable future could make the club even more comfortable pursuing offensive upgrades in the outfield corners. They’ve already been linked to corner bats without much defensive prowess such as Teoscar Hernandez and even Juan Soto, both of whom are rumored targets for L.A. this winter and would surely appreciate being flanked by a center fielder of Edman’s caliber.
ESPN’s Jeff Passan first reported the extension and the contract terms. Fabian Ardaya of The Athletic (X link) had the specifics on the deferred money.
Photo courtesy of USA Today Sports Images
Ah, the Los Angeles Deferrals are at it again I see.
Pot, kettle, black. The Mets are literally the most famous team to ever give a deferral. July 1 is a day in Mets lore. Bobby Bonilla is disappointed, yet here you are.
Only Bernie madoff can stop the dodgers come back to life Bernie!!!
I don’t think the original Bobby Bonilla contract had deferrals. They bought the contract out and gave him interest because the Wilpons were heavily invested with Bernie Madoff and thought their investments and return would be more than his interest. As for the Dodgers. No complaints from me… they are playing by the rules that are established.
Yes it wasn’t a deferral it was what was left on his deal turned into an annuity. Most people don’t understand how an annuity works and they act like it was some boneheaded move by the Mets, which it wasn’t.
Cohen has not deferred any salaries. Bonilla retired in 2001. You are just a little out of date.
$50 million of Lindor’s deal is deferred.
$26.5 million of Diaz’s deal is deferred
Websoul: pay attention! Bonilla gets $1,000,000 every year still.
@fox – his point was Cohen didn’t give Bonilla that deferral.
Bonilla was owed $5.9 million when the Mets cut the aging player in 1999 and bought out the rest of his contract. Instead of paying him the sum up front, however, then-Mets owner Fred Wilpon cut a deal with Bonilla’s camp. The Mets would pay Bonilla in installments, with annual interest, every year from 2011-2035.
Sure he has: Diaz, Nimmo and Lindor all have deferrals. Nothing crazy, but .it brings down the AAV slightly.
Literally every team is doing this.
Braves aren’t and I wish they would. We do the opposite, all of the extensions they sign are charged more than the yearly rate for CBT because of the way the rules dictate they get calculated.
The Giants are paying Snell in 2025 17 mill to pitch against them lol. Bunch a losers
@Sid Bream The Braves are not being charged more for CBT terms. Deferred $ has to be funded annually with principal necessary to accrue to value of deferral at time it is due. That principal value is what the contract will ultimately cost the team(3rd party pays interest) and that is what is charged for CBT purposes.
To simplify “time value of $” and “accrued interest”
Pickle, the Giants are paying his signing bonus in 2026.
The Giants are paying Snell nothing in 2025, but I guess we can just make things up.
His signing bonus was deferred and is to be paid in 2026. While Snell will receive payment then the $ was already funded to pay the deferral.
That signing bonus $ was counted in 2024. By deferring the $ it saved Giants a little over $2M.
The Dodgers are going to have almost a full payroll hitting luxury tax of players who retired in like 7 years from now? Amazing what’s happened to the dollar. I don’t think the last CBA back in 2020 accounted for 30% inflation.
@Lion The last MLBPA players contract was signed in March of 2022. But when is irrelevant as for what it accounts for.
The # used is a federally provided figure. I can’t remember what specifically. But it accounts for numerous economic, banking, and currency figures. These player contracts are not some insignificant figure. You might not have thought it, but the accountants, lawyers, financial planners, etc… on both sides representing both the players and the teams have.
What is it going to result in long term? A lot of luxury tax? Will teams who are paying hefty deferments be forced into a situation where they are essentially handcuffed by luxury tax or will MLB bend and raise the thresholds? If they do that, they literally have chopped the legs off of every small market club in the league.
You can also see a situation where big money clubs end play themselves into a situation where they can’t afford to outspend the small market clubs because of their decade long commitments to players who are barbequing on Saturdays. The tax should be so stifling that they are forced to play moneyball like the A’s and the Reds.
Something has to change at some point though because if the rules bend to ease the financial hazards of issuing players deferrments, well to call the Astros cheaters would be ludicrous in comparison.
A deferment isn’t a ‘buy now pay later’ option. It just allows the team to earn interest on the money that is being set aside for the player until it’s paid out. It just adds flexibility for the team, and for that flexibility the team pays the player a higher overall dollar amount.
And nobody will ever out cheat the Astros.
You are wrong, the deferred money doesn’t count on the teams current payroll, so a player can be rostered at an AAV much lower than his market because he’s agreed to take deferred money.
The drawback for the team is that money will be part of the payroll in those future seasons. In that sense it is a buy now pay later, because your adding players to your roster at a reduced market, and paying that discount as part of future payrolls.
If teams are allowed to escape the luxury tax presently, it’s an advantage. It’s especially an advantage if the thresholds are raised and the penalties for doing so are eased. Which no team can accurately predict.
If MLB doesn’t reign this in, you get a situation where luxury tax thresholds will need to remain tightly pegged to the past in order to enforce penalties on the teams who essentially skirted luxury tax by deferring pay. That is very difficult to manage, will create a chaotic imbalance that is almost impossible to control with monetary policies.
Literally everything you just said is incorrect. The deferred money does count against payroll, just at today’s valuation of the money, not the valuation it would be when it gets disbursed. The money does not count against future payroll beyond playing years. The money is set aside and is already there to be disbursed to the player. It doesn’t have to be earned, they already have it in an account to be paid out.
And no luxury tax is being skirted. At all.
dropped
you might as well explain it to a rock but thanks for trying
I think the rock would have figured it out by now
That doesn’t make any sense. How do you apply, accurately, the value of deferred money to the current seasons payroll? Has this been defined in the contract, a separation of AAV’s that apply to the teams salary cap year to year that differs from actual cash dispursements?
How can you apply a decades worth of deferred money and accurately estimate annual payrolls over the term of the contract unless it is defined.
The only way to do so is to amortize the contract as if no money has been deferred, or to define an amortization schedule of the total contract value over the term of the contract. If that is the way they the league manages this, well, then my understanding is wrong because I was under the impression that all deferred money counted against the cap in the year that it was payed.
I never read anything about the Dodgers having to amortize Ohtani’s contract over its term as it regards to their salary cap year to year.
I’ll have to research this further.
this will help…
spotrac.com/mlb/rankings/_/year/2025
That’s why MLB and the PA come up with valuations of what a contract is worth (using slightly different formulas and therefore slightly different numbers).
So what this says is that the contract is being amortized over the term of the contract and applied to the cap as such.
So the deferments in the contract were defined in such a way that is completely separate from the contracts amortization schedule as it applies to the salary cap?
Ok, I misunderstood in that regard, but it’s still garbage, and it’s a one way ticket to bankruptcy.
It’s still an advantage to look down at your operating budget this season and delude your organization into the belief that it’s a good year when your cash expense is 2M instead of that 70M Spottrac lists. It’s cheating in someway, hope they go FN bankrupt and have to move out Rancho Cucamonga, F the Dodgers.
It ain’t a formula, you have to define the amortization schedule of the contract’s value over the term of the contract, or you allow for the contract to be amortized in regards to the salary cap in the years that the deferred money is paid. One or the other.
What Spottrac is saying is that the contract is being amortized in regards to the salary cap over the term of the contract, which would avoid the major issues with the contract being uncompetitive as it applies to teams annual luxury tax payments, if indeed they apply. There isn’t really any big benefit to the Dodgers, the money market rate on the 68M yields them what a 1.5M tops. The investment value of the cash at a risk free rate is negligable and shouldnt have much bearing. Maybe they’ll dump it all into Bitcoin though and get miraculous returns? Can you dump 68M in Bitcoin without crashing the market?
As an organization, it does help you sleep better at night in 2025 not seeing that big ass debit on your current accounts payable. Huge ass.
Leveraging money is the Guggenheim Group’s day job. Baseball is a side gig. The benefit is that they can earn with that money before disbursing it to the player.
I don’t know what the league’s formula is for valuating future payments, I just know that they have one and that it’s used to make sure that an ample amount of money is set aside for the player.
The cash expense is 2M to the player and 44M to the account set aside for later payments to the player. 46M on the books.
And how will they go bankrupt when the amount they earn on the deferment is more than the payment to the player?
The more they defer, the richer they get, not further in debt.
Sure cash flow is what it’s called, they manage cash flows, I’m sure they know what they are doing.
Anyways, Tommy Edman had a great run in the playoffs, I like Tommy Edman as a ball player, I think it’s an overpay based on his ’24 numbers, but I think he is capable of making that deal look like a bargain too, so it’s a fair deal, congrats to Tommy Edman.
It’s definitely more than I would’ve committed. Good work if you can get it
Obviously I’m new around here. I’ll find the door
You don’t have to be all dramatic. But if you re gonna guess on facts, there’s a good chance you’re gonna get called out.
As for the Dodgers, the deferred $ is not the issue. It’s financial disparity which is nothing new to the sport. The #s have changed but the issue still remains.
As for a solution, many think it’s as simple as just creating a hard cap. For the NBA that’s led to a consulted system that now involves clauses, exemptions, max contract rules, etc… Yet still majority of trades involve numerous players whose contracts are ultimately traded and the players simply waived. The NFL’s hard cap works a bit better but trades are usually of much less consequence and they to involve varying degrees if contract swapping opposed to player for player trades. The shorter careers in NFL and size of teams as well plays a factor. Talent is easier to assess and young players have an impact much quicker.
All in all disparity has been an ongoing issue and MLB has been trying to remedy it. And they arguably have made some progress. Most teams now have shifted to extending young players and hedging a few free agent years. The old way just had teams overpaying for free agents and absorbing sunk cost of back end of contracts.
The # used is a federally provided figure. I can’t remember what specifically.
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As far as I can recall, it was similar to the risk-free 7-year treasury. It’s a lot more simple than some fans make it out to be. A player gets a solid guaranteed return, while the team hopes to receive a return superior to the 7-year treasury.
That was my understanding of the deferred money as it applied to annual payrolls and based on what I researched I was incorrect. The contract seems to be amortized over the term of the deal.
I will say this, I use Fangraphs to research payrolls and contracts and I could of swore that I saw Bobby Bonilla’s deal on the Met’s annual payroll, and in that spreadsheet the value of his deal was being applied to the cap number.
That is what I based my assumption on, but it was an assumption, and I was incorrect. I must be seeing things.
I thought about it though, if they get 2% annual return on that cash over the term of the contract, they rake in about 80M. If they can get the return up to say 10% annually, which I know is possible but also very difficult, the cash would then yield around 500M, unadjusted for inflation and costs of doing business.
Anyways, it will still be a huge ass on your balance sheet in 2035, and this kind of management will eventually lead to some sort of financial strain on the organization.
Why would Ohtani get to rack up interest on the cash, he deferred payment, if he is also taking the interest then it’s as if he is lending his 68M at the risk free rate to the Dodgers, the Dodgers taking out loans from their players now. Funny.
the players who defer payments do not get any interest on those funds. the teams do.
The principal the Dodgers invest per the CBA accrued interest. So when it comes time to collect it has accumulated the amount owed. He’s essentially lending Dodgers $44M annually at a cost of $24M over the course of every deferral.
Sal, it depends on the deal cut. Many do get interest. Like Scherzer. Some do not like Freeman.
Per Ronald Blum of the Associated Press, Snell’s signing bonus from his contract with the Giants is $17 million and will be payable on January 15, 2026
Snell had $17M deferred. All earned on a 1 yr contract for 2014. Giants were charged $29M against CBT in 2024. That was his salary and cost to fund the deferral.
You’re talking about one player, what do the dodgers have now? 6-7 players with deferred money. Totally ridiculous.
Who cares if it’s deferred. It’s the players choice. No one is putting a gun to their head. If they want to live a dream and get a chance to win a world series, I’m all in. Any team in baseball can defer money. So all you weiners how cry about deferring, stop complaining. Cheap owners your team has.
@belowme29
Are they “weiners” or whiners, or both? Asking for a friend.
This is not directed at you. However, I find it ironic that a lot of people complain all the time about the wealthy or the so called rich, but when it comes to sports, people love having a club that they follow/support having more wealth than others and signing/buying all the top tier talent.
A bit like the difference of well, I’ll just go and buy that Bugatti Chiron super sports, and you can have your Lexus or Chevy Truck.
Everything the Dodgers did was normal except for Ohtani. Ohtani wanted his money deferred so his translator couldn’t steal it.
I hope and no need to because they probably will keep deferring until not allowed. I enjoy seeing upset people on the internet. One day you will have real problems but right now your life is great and that makes me happy.
Balk: why?
Dodgers have almost $200 million avv deferred from 2035-2045 for players who wont even being playing baseball anymore and higher than 2/3 of most mlb clubs entire payroll!!! Ownership are smart as they all will be dead when its time to pay these contracts and new ownership will be on the hook for this disaster! Current ownership only care about today not the future
Belowme29…so every team has the same payroll as the dodgers? You think that magically people just want to start playing with the Dodgers, no bro. They are offering stupid money and deferring 1/3 of it. The league needs to put a cap on deferred money and keep leagues competitive. Only a dodgers fan is happy with some bullcrap like this.
If you want to cap deferred money, fine, but aside from Ohtani nothing the Dodgers are doing in that regard is putting anyone at a competitive disadvantage. Other teams can and do defer contracts.
What the Dodgers are doing is outspending everyone. The deferred contracts are a non-issue.
“Ownership are smart as they all will be dead when its time to pay these contracts”
They’re paying those contracts right now. They’re just going to escrow, not the players. The Dodgers don’t have any obligations beyond the years the players are contracted for.
People complain about rich people who do nothing to give back to society, which is their prerogative, but if you look at Bill Gates (Epstein stuff aside) compared to Elon Musk (Epstein stuff aside), the difference in charitable donations is drastic.
People see sports teams as an extension of themselves, and so they see these athletes that are the best in the world at what they do, and deserve to be paid a king’s ransom because they’re living our dreams. Jeff Bezos’ steroided ass sitting behind a keyboard isn’t very many people’s dreams, even if his bank statement might be.
Deferred money is an accounting manipulation, not a payroll manipulation, or tax manipulation. It literally has zero bearing on financial responsibility or team solvency.
@Anthony Theses deferrals require annually funding as stipulated in the CBA. The year that have past of deferred contracts are all accruing value as we speak and will til they day they become due.
These deferred contracts have by and large went without issue. The exception being Bonilla and that was an unprecedented situation involving a historic financial fraud situation.
@Vegas The only way Ohtani’s contract differs from any other contract with deferred $ is by amount.
Dodgers are still paying the principl needed for deferred $ to accrue and are charged accordingly with the present day value which is $44M to fund deferred portion + $2M salary which is $46M. Nothing whatsoever egregious about it.
Settle down dodgers were 4th in payroll. Mets outspend them by 70 million. They lost. Yankees spend a ton haven’t won since what 01? The Royals have won more recently. Giants have at least 3 in that span. Get off your deferral high horse it’s not what you spend it’s how you spend it.
@ below
LAD market is 9x that of KC. I won’t complain, if you stop calling others cheap.
‘deferral high horse’, I like that!
All these teams are rich, revenue sharing helps level the playing field to an extent, but it’s clear that big markets have more to spend and can more easily take on the expense of luxury tax due to broadcasting rights, merchandising deals, etc…
The deferments have to bite these teams in the ass hard or MLB will be opening up a ridiculous paradigm similar to the US Government and the debt ceiling, teams will be forced to go into long term debt to remain competitive, and eventually they will all be bankrupt because their salary commitments to couch potato’s will be too great to field a team of professionals.
Not at all true. The money is already paid and accounted for. All a deferment is is an agreement about when it’s disbursed. It changes nothing and creates zero additional burden for the team.
@Balk Payroll and the luxury tax #(true value) is what should be complained about if anything. The deferred $ is still an annual expense in present seasons funding them.
Putting a cap on deferred $ changes nothing. Ohtani instead gets $46M annually. If $44M of that is invested annually and collected on same dates as the current deferral schedule he ultimately ends up being compensated more than $70M annually.
To sum it up the deferred $ is in no way the issue. The issue if any is financial disparity which has been going on for decades. As have deferrals.
The keyword, a referral, as in one. Dodgers uhm…Betts, Otani, Freeman, Smith, Snell and now Edman. So let’s not point out one when the dodgers are playing mortgage the future and won’t be able to put a farm team on the field in 9-11 years.
Yes let’s compare 1 million a year to practically a billion dollars. I don’t think people care about Bonilla anymore.
That’s only $1 million. Wait till LA starts paying Ohtanis deferrals, $68 million a year for 10 years. So the Dodgers are the new Kings of Deferrals.
@86 They are funding the deferrals annually as the $ is deferred per CBA.
Dodgers … deferred … duh!
2024 World Series Champion Dodgers*
The outrage did not seem the same when Scherzer or Devers received huge deferrals…
spotrac.com/news/_/id/2092/detailing-active-mlb-de…
I think it’s because the Dodgers are really close to $1 billion in deferred money. Which is a significant amount higher than other teams.
Personally? I don’t care.
Ohtani is the only ABNORMAL deferred contract, the other deals are in line with most of the other one’s on the list. Ohtani is a unicorn for many reasons, but his ability to generate endless endorsement deals made that contract make sense for all factors, Ohtani can retire and get paid $68 million for a decade, he wants to win, and he certainly does not need the money now. I also think Ohtani take the deferrals to win makes other players more likely to accept it as well.
Yup. Finding it very hard to care when two parties agree to a contract.
I think you nailed it here. A lot of players want the money now. There are players that take loans out on future earnings, with Tatis Jr being one that stands out. He had to cut a pretty big check when he got paid. Shohei is a unicorn in the sense that he’s rolling in so much cash from endorsements and being a veteran MLB player, that he doesn’t care when he gets it. And like you said, he’ll still have a cash cow when he retires. Find me another player that’s willing to be the highest paid player in the sport, and not see any more than 2 mill of it per season until he retires. It’s not like other teams can’t do this, it’s that there are no other players that are willing to.
Dodgers are well over $1 billion in deferred salaries. Ohtani alone is $680 million. The other owners will get rid of this CBT loophole in the next CBA.
Could your elaborate web surfer on why this issue of deferrals is so objectionable to other owners?
Last I checked unicorns did not exist, and Ohtani does. Find a new analogy.
Blue Skies
I see nothing objectionable in calling Ohtani a unicorn. It simply indicates that he is a rarity, which is true in multiple respects.
It’s simply nonsensical to anyone who understands the difference between rare and mythical.
Sure they will.
Do you get upset when people refer to the Achilles’ tendon or an Achilles’ heel, because Achilles was mythical?
“Unicorn” is commonly used to mean “very rare person,” as MLB Top 100 said. It’s not a new usage. Stop being such a tedious pedant.
People do like their cliches, even when they don’t make any sense. But I already knew that.
Blue Skies
It is a metaphor every time you call a player a “star”.
Now that player is traded mid-season from Cincinnati to San Francisco, then they could be a “red-giant star”.
@9/11ths and the Dodgers fund that $ annually as each deferral happens and are charged accordingly per CBA. So the fact that they are deferring $ isn’t really relevant. The overall CBT # which is what is ultimately the cost of the roster is what is relevant. I believe Dodgers were 5th overall last season.
I humbly apologize for pointing out that unicorns are mythical. I’m sure this comes as a terrible shock to those who hope to see one.
Stop being a troll blue skies
That’s dumb you know what is meant and you’re bored and your favorite show just left you on a cliffhanger. You have nothing left but to say unicorns don’t exist.
Ohtani is a unicorn.
Ohtani absolutely is a unicorn both from a player and marketing standpoint.
But the point I was getting at still stands. If people want to complain about anything it should just be pay disparity in general. Deferred $ is irrelevant and not new. People are hung up on it as if it is some mechanism being used to cheat the system.
Okay, I’m convinced by these thoughtful arguments that Ohtani is, in fact, mythical, and the only reasonable means of comparing him is to something that never has existed and never will exist. I know this also because John Smoltz told me so probably a hundred time during the World Series.
This is what’s going to exist: bahaha! Dodger Stadium price increases according to sources
$35 beer
$15 hot dogs
$11 popcorn
$13 soda (in commemorative cup)
$28 pizza
$18 ice cream helmet
Sure, but one team is doing it a lot more and larger than anyone else. Through 4 guys alone (Ohtani, Betts, Freeman, Snell) they’ve deferred more than 1B. With a B. Large B.
Ohanti is the only outlier there. Betts, Freeman, and Snell’s contracts are hardly unusual in MLB.
Reading these comments it’s always painfully obvious that probably not one in ten fans has even a basic understanding of how deferrals work, and why they are particularly useful for the Dodgers. It isn’t because they lower the CBT, because they don’t.
The cost of money built into the CBA is a quite modest annualized yield of 4.43%. The Dodgers are owned by a huge hedge fund, Guggenheim Partners. Their annualized return on investments likely averages at least twice this figure (probably a lot more). So they are betting that the funds they are required by the CBA to set aside for these deferrals annually will be worth far more than is required to pay them off when they become payable.
Bottom line, they are betting on their ability to net a significant discount on what they owe the players. Short of some sort of economic calamity, they are probably right.
Pretty sure less than 5% of fans have a basic understanding of finance, the time value of money, discounted cash flows, etc.
For the few that have a mortgage or don’t live in their parents’ basement, knowing things like not paying off a mortgage with a 3.5% rate is good…ah hell, forget it.
You put a number on such player and what they are worth, let’s use Snell. What was mlbtr numbers? $150 mill? Then you have a team come in and say hey I’ll give you $180 mill but you have to accept 1/3 in deferred pay. If there was a cap on the deferred pay let’s say at 10% do you think the Dodgers would want to offer such a high contract? Just asking for a friend
Does it matter? Deferred money doesn’t change anything
Agree with dropped. Balk, deferred money means very little to the Dodgers. The luxury tax threshold is an artificial number. The Dodgers are making money hand over fist with the current product and revenue streams available to them. What matters far more are the Draft pick penalties associated with exceeding the tax and the very high fiscal penalties they are currently under. Deferrals or any restrictions on them do not impact the sanctions or compare in significance as far as impacting their decision-making on contracts.
Or Chris Davis…
They’re also handing out huge signing bonuses to cut down even further on the AAV for CBT purposes while somewhat balancing their current and future payroll commitments.
This seems like something that needs to be addressed in the next CBA.
Bonuses don’t affect AAV calculations
That’s the problem. They SHOULD be affecting them, specifically adding to those calculations in some manner.
If the Dodgers had put that $17M into the contract itself instead of being a signing bonus, the AAV would’ve been $3.4M higher towards the CBT.
I mean that the bonuses are calculated as part of the contract and are included in AAV. They have no bearing when they are paid out as far as the CBT in concerned.
You misunderstood what he said. He’s saying signing bonuses don’t change what the AAV hit will be. There’s no reason for a fan to care what the signing bonus is, for us it’s all the same. Total money (whenever it’s paid out) divided by years.
Signing bonuses frequently have to do with the player’s state of residence, because the bonus is accrued while “at home” and not “at work.”. For a guy like Snell who lives in Washington with no state tax, it was probably worth $4M to get that $52M signing bonus.
Lanidrac, please read the clear factual statements of DroppedThird Strike. You are incorrect. Please stop perpetuating misinformation.
Players seems to like it, its one way of getting the amount they are looking (clearly the money is not there in NPV) they get to raise the aav so the union likes it and owners seems to like it.
pepenas, the MLBPA has spoken out against deferred contracts with no interest like all the ones the Dodgers have signed. It doesn’t raise the AAV since the actual value of the contract is less when money is deferred.
That’s why they are for higher overall dollars.
Please someone, provide a list of players who have complained about being ripped off, by the teams because their money was deferred. Please. I’ll wait. Anyone?
Matter of fact, MLB wanted to act against it but MLBPA opposed. As long as players get more money, deferred or not, MLBPA is fine with deferred money.
@Lanidrac
Actually bonuses still could toward the CBT. For I stance there was A LOT of confusion about Soler’s contract when he was traded. He counts as $16m against the boxes even though he is only making 12 or 14 whatever it is.
The deferral does reduce the CBT though. My question is, at what point do all the deferrals start to catch up with the Dodgers? I realize the Dodgers make 100’s of millions a year, but you would think at some point down the road this will effect them.
And what is exactly stopping other teams from giving out big signing bonuses?
They are doing some of the signing bonuses to reduce the heinous California state income tax hits for the players. And you can bet some of the layers with deferred money coming to them, like Ohtani, will move out of the state before they receive it. Gavin Newsome’s head must be exploding
California bad.
Some of us regular folk take deferred compensation all the time. Governor Newsom will survive.
Let’s supposed that Soto is signed to a ten year $468 million deal.
And the Mets pay Soto $450 million in the first year and $2 million per year for the next nine years.
I assume that the value of money upfront inceeases the AAV just like deferring it by 20 years would lower the AAV. The value of money today is greater than the value on money in a year, that is why mortgages charge interest.
Front-loading contracts with no deferrals doesn’t seem to impact the AAV. Jose Altuve’s extension comes to mind.
@Landirac It already is outlined on how bonuses and annual average AAVs are ro be charged. If you look it up there is a ton of information out there on the matter.
Does anyone think the “deferrals” thing is actually upsetting Dodgers fans? Why don’t you just mock them for being well managed and well hung too lol
Not one bit…
you may want to re-visit Lindor’s contract, which will pay him through 2041
OMG!! LOLmets deferring too?!
And Edwin Diaz’s
They are doing nothing wrong, people need to get over it. I hate the Dodgers by the way.
On their way to signing every free-agent out there.
Not only can they defer but now MLB has granted LA a ‘Roster Size Exemption’ the first in MLB history.
The Dodgers now have no limits period.
Omg this is hilarious. Now you’re just making up nonsense
We all know this is just a live action version of MLB The Show. The Dodgers have ‘adjusted’ the user settings.
Just another player doing his part to help the team win. Whatever team you root for could do the same thing if the players would agree to it. Keep on hating and crying though. Your tears are delicious
Tommy edman is a really good baseball player, it was his choice, LA has no option but to defer money if they want to
I wonder how they are going to compete in the years when all these deferrals start kicking in. They will be over the luxury tax limit with nobody on the roster. I guess it is worth it if you can win a few championships.
Not even remotely close to how it works.
BM, I would respectfully suggest you do some reading and learn about how the calculations are made. Deferrals have absolutely no impact on the amount of salary applied from a player’s salary to a team’s calculations for total compensation.
For example, for the purpose of calculating the Dodger total compensation Subject to the luxury tax in the years Ohtani will play for the Dodgers, ALL of his salary Is applied in those 10 years only. Absolutely none of the money Ohtani receives in a deferral, after he stops playing for the Dodgers, is applied to the Dodgers luxury tax calculation. You and others have created an issue that does not exist. This is just animated ignorance You and many others here are perpetuating.
There are legitimate reasons why the Dodgers have comparative advantage in the current system. But none of it has anything to do with the ignorance that you’re throwing out.
I have heard nothing but Dodgers fans saying that any team can do this so why do the Dodgers have a comparative advantage? Dodgers make a lot of revenue but they aren’t the richest ownership. Pardon my ignorance but if deferred salary doesn’t apply to the years that salary is being deferred to then it is a stupid rule and a blatant circumventing of the luxury tax. It is probably too late for the league to change the rules as it would cripple the Dodgers for years. It is more likely that they would have to get rid of the luxury tax altogether. I can only hope for a lengthy lockout that led to a salary cap and floor.
Please educate yourself instead of just saying pardon my ignorance
Sadly BM, you were admittedly ignorant. Now you’ve doubled down with irrational nonsense. Reminds me of people who clearly don’t like what they hear or read and say they’re confused. Please stop writing and follow Enrico Pallazzo’s advice. Educate yourself.
Why so aggressive? Are you a bot looking for replies? Prove you’re human.
The creator of MLBTR, Tim Dierkes operates this site as a venue for serious baseball fans to discourse. I respect him and his business and so I am a paying subscriber.
As a regular visitor to this site, I concerns me when commentators, no matter their intent, place inaccurate information into the discussions. The particular issue you elected to comment on, compensation deferrals, is one where we have seen an abundance of inaccurate information put forth, much of it unintentional; but, frequently reckless and designed to mislead and disrupt.
You asked if I am human. I am. I’m also tired of sloppy writers, whether they are simply ignorant or purposefully dishonest and disruptive, perpetuating disinformation.
It is in an escrow account. Why is this so hard to understand?
It isn’t an escrow account. This means a third party holds the funds. The teams are able to manage these set asides, they just can’t spend them.
Here’s a fun fact. If Guggenheim invests the $46m annual set aside for Ohtani’s contract at a 10% annual rate of return, the fund will be worth $119m in ten years. This will not only cover the $70m they will owe him in that year, but also cover the initial investment. Yes sports fans, that means Ohtani was… free.
Second fun fact: the average annual historical on the S&P 500 is… 10%.
In other words, the Dodgers FO is smart, rich and play the game better than anyone else. That is a recipe for success if I’ve ever seen it.
Ok so I’m on the side of deferrals but when did money “invested” become money “not spent”. If I give you a share of my company you have to give me money. It’s investing AND spending. I don’t see how they can be separated.
Good to have a fellow knowledgeable finance guy and Dodger fan bringing a voice of reason. Assuming Ohtani continues playing, even with the expected diminishing returns over the next 9 years, this contract is a steal.
@Boatmen it’s literally explained in plain English up there somewhere by @blueskies, and you’re not even close.
Uh… okay
But hey, this is great for baseball, haha.
It is. Give fans something to root against.
I wish I could mute Dodgers articles at this point. No disrespect towards MLBTR whatsoever — Just sick of them.
I’m as tired of hearing about the Dodgers as the next guy, but you could just not click on them if that’s the case
Michael Chaney just makes sense
Logic here is mind boggling. Thank you for your service.
You’re not wrong – Just felt the need to voice my frustration. Maybe other people disagree, but feels the Dodgers have taken the fun out of offseasons when their team rules the Hot Stove.
HopefulTwins
Pretty much took the fun out of your 2024 too I guess.
I get your point though. But I’m also a Browns fan so trust me when I say that winning the offseason doesn’t guarantee you anything lol
@Michael Which offseason did the Browns win? Think most viewed the Watson trade and that offseason a loss and lowering value of subsequent offseasons due to picks given up for Watson.
It’s more so a running joke than anything but I remember as a kid being excited about the hype from them signing guys like Paul Kruger and Karlos Dansby. Then there was the Odell trade and all the years where they had multiple first rounders.
@Michael The Watsom deal and guaranteed $ to accompany trade was mind boggling. I did think Browns were going to have an elite Def this year. They ve been good but underperformed.
I have hard time not rooting for Browns. The history stolen from them and attached to another team. It’s terrible what Browns have been through.
I am an Australian, I started following Dodgers in 1999 after I visited Los Angeles and went to my first game.
We finished the season .475 from memory.
I have followed them ever since, I never miss a game, either in person, on tv or on the radio.
It’s fans like you I have the utmost respect for
To follow a team thru ups and downs says something about a person in my opinion.
I am so grateful my team is run by incredibly special people who respect us as fans enough to put out a team capable of winning it all every year.
I hope for a floor salary cap for MLB
We all know spending the most money doesn’t win you the World Series.
Not to be that person, but it literally just won them a World Series.
@RedFraggle Wrong. They were fourth and beat three teams with higher salaries. Research is hard.
Don’t be a jerk, especially when you’re not right.
legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/nl…
Spotrac had them 5th.
spotrac.com/mlb/payroll/_/year/2024/sort/cap_total…
Mets spent 70 million more and it didn’t win them a World Series. Royals have won more recently than the Yankees
Spending helps but isn’t the golden key.
Money doesn’t buy wins. Its a damn good down payment though
@ATinz
Wow! A whole 3 teams?! Spending at a level 25 other teams are unable to spend at, does give them an extreme advantage.
Which is why you should never use Spotrac.
You are lucky that you did not happen to go to an Angels game. You are correct; money does not buy championships, but good organizations at least compete. Talk about a loyal fan base; Angels fans are masochists. I love our team but hate our owner. All Angels fans, myself included, belong in the funny house.
You don’t have to click on a Dodgers article. You definitely don’t have to click on it, scroll down and write a comment on it
There are a lot of other articles to click on about other teams having interest in various free agents. Curate your own content hopeful twins fan.
For making an actual move? Not like there is ever a Twins move to report
I was just saying his name, not that the twins will make an actual move. Haha
Be like Michael Chaney
Sorry that your team ownership is making no moves. Maybe they should be tight fisted with their payroll??
Just stop ready articles on Dodgers. While you’re figuring out the obvious, I’ll just mute you.
Playing by the rules everyone agreed to. Every owner can do the same thing. Some are cheap and don’t care about winning
Lol, has nothing to do with being cheap. Just because a team is worth “billions”, doesnt mean they have billions to spend on payroll.
?????)
Every owner can do the same thing.
==========================
1-Every owner can defer salary.
2-Very few owners can spend $300M.
And it the $300M that makes the difference; not the deferrals.
Gross deal
Dodgers should change their name to the los angeles deferrals
wow you just come up with that one buddy
Stop. You’re really hurting our feewings.
With how much seed money and who did it come from.
Stop acting like the garage is the whole story.
App posted comment to wrong conversation, ignore.
fansincethe80s,
You’ve certainly piqued my curiosity. I’d like to know about the seed money, where it came from, the garage…the whole story.
Seeds and garage. Sounds like the devils lettuce to me…
It’s actually the Okinawa Deferrals.
LA Taxdodgers
Wow, first I’ve heard of that name.
I’ll defer my applause
@john Do you not understand the ABCs of finance? The Dodgers are not saving any $ here. They are paying annually to fund the deferrals and being charged accordingly against CBT.
The players are forsaking some net worth due to time value of $ but gaining security and heging investment options . Deferred contracts are not new nor are they in any way nefarious. They are an option for every team but are not as likely with smaller contracts. As players with smaller contracts cant delay as much income nor do they have the net worth that they’d have need to hedge against.
I think there are about 100,000,000 Americans involved in deferred compensation plans. They are known under the IRS code section 401(k). But it is the same thing.
The only ownership with balls to take advantage of it. The NATS did it and won a World Series.
“It’s not fair.”
– Nobody Relevant
Fairs have carousels and cotton candy.
And clowns, funnel cakes, and man oh man
It’s not fair, but neither is having a better front office, a lower tax state, or nice weather to attract players. It’s also not fair that baseball players make hundreds of millions of dollars to suck. But, it’s kind of just….life.
A yankee fan saying spending isn’t fair
I can die having seen all the world has to offer now lol
I think you misunderstood my post. In short, nothing in life is “fair.” True fairness would be every single team operating under the exact same conditions, which will never happen because it can’t ever happen.
White privilege explained through a baseball analogy. Well done.
Alot of things in regard ro MLB are unfair. Deferrals are not one of them. They are funded annually at time of referral and CBT is charge accordingly with true value of what it costs team with current value of USD which is ultimately the cost the team is paying.
And yet you add lower tax rate weather etc like they matter when they don’t. The teams add more on for the tax rate. See Aiyuk, Brandon. Got 30 to be in Cali which was the equivalent of 27 in Pittsburgh. The team paid the tax the weather is luxury lol
Of course they matter or people wouldn’t be fleeing higher tax states and poor weather states. The fact that teams pay more to compensate isn’t “fair” either, depending on your perspective. Again, nothing in life is fair because fair is perspective-dependent.
That’s a fair analogy. Plenty of teams/people struggle despite their advantages, while plenty of teams/people succeed despite their disadvantages.
It’s 2024 and we’re still having to explain to casuals why not “every team can do it”
Every team can do it by rule.
“by rule” don’t make me laugh you play by the same rules as Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk assuming you’re a US citizen. So why can’t you just have an Amazon and a SpaceX too. See how that sounds?
Amazon was literally started in a garage. If you have a garage you could’ve started Amazon
@wrian washman; the sound is you/we don’t have the IQ they have nor the cojones’ to try things!
And a 400k loan.
Except for the minor issue that once an Amazon exists they have no interest in letting anyone else get a shot of becoming that big and being a threat as a competitor.
But antitrust is for commies in this country. So go cry to Trump folks and see where that gets you. Because you just voted out Lina Khan who was actually making some headway.
The sound is your fanbase can’t comprehend the basic concept of population density and how much that goes into the size of the TV market. The sound is you don’t understand that NY and LA have guaranteed bottom lines and “worst case scenarios” that would be fiscal wet dreams for the bottom 5 spenders. I’d like to see people at least come up with a better defense than every team can do it, because that is frankly not true. Thanks for playing though, Dodgers faithful.
And he lives in a garage. No room to be creative, I guess.
Hold on he said by rule. He never said every team had the means he said by rule. He’s not wrong let’s not turn into those who look for what’s wrong inside of what’s right. His point is valid and should be accepted as accurate.
Do you know who the most profitable team in MLB is? It’s not the Mets Yankees or dodgers. It’s my Mariners. Middle spending middle winning mariners have the highest profit margin. Don’t tell me they can’t because they don’t that’s crap.
So the Mariners are the exception, if true. Are the Mariners books public? Or are these numbers just some speculation by someone who fills column inches?
It “sounds” like you are processing information at a fourth grade level. Teams receive $200 million from MLB to start the season. If every citizen got $200 million to start out the year, then yeah, I could be Amazon and SpaceX combined. Or if Amazon and SpaceX were required to share their revenue with me, then Yeah, I could be Amazon or SpaceX. You see how leaving out major details in your analogy makes you sound like you are not processing at age level?
Wrian Washman
So why can’t you just have an Amazon and a SpaceX too. See how that sounds?
============================
Well, you (the generic you) can. But the problem is, some of these people are incredibly bright AND focused.
And maybe even more important, they continue to invest their earnings in the company. Even successful people that write these incredible programs oftentimes sell their company when it is worth $10M, $100M, etc.
Just read up on Dell, Gates, Jobs, etc. They didn’t inherit their billions.
Not every team can attract a player like Ohtani who can afford to defer a massive amount of salary. Literally every team can afford to add deferrals to contracts like the one given to Edman.
Not every team has the advantages that the Dodgers have. But there are no teams that can cry poor and no fans that at this point should be able to cry ignorant. Maybe just stop crying…
Not all teams generate the same revenue
29 teams could’ve traded for Edman. 29 teams could’ve afforded to extend him. 29 teams could’ve used deferrals to do so.
There’s plenty of players out there affordably worth acquiring and extending and the rules allow for extensions.
Ask more from your team.
He did not say all teams can generate the same revenue, but all teams except the Mets were profitable every year…
Even the Yankees were ranked 18th in revenue spent on its payroll.
Many teams are profitable in the $200 million per year range and do not spend much at all.
Doubt 29 other teams would have offered him anywhere near the money or years he got.
Not all teams invest the same amount into putting a quality product onto the field. Every MLB team received $110 million in revenue sharing and an additional $90 million in national revenues from the league. 10 teams spent $200 million or more on payroll. 10 teams spent less than $110 million they received in revenue sharing on payroll. I’m not sure what your argument is. Should all teams be limited to what the A’s spend?
DroppedThirdStrike
acquiring and extending and the rules allow for extensions.
Ask more from your team.
===========================
Sure, anyone can acquire Edman. Smart move.
But LA has 6 players making $27M or more. That’s where the difference is.
Agreed. Dodgers have good financial advantage, and use it better than anyone. I’m not saying it’s fair, I’m saying that teams use their resources poorly, including money. The White Sox aren’t the White Sox because of a lack of funds, but because they do everything poorly
Correct, but not every team is willing to pay Ohtani regardless of how the salary is paid. 45-50 million a year now or mostly into escrow, the amount of ownership groups willing to spend that kind of money on one player is limited.
Just look at the Soto offers. 30 teams, only 5 made an official offer. Acting like the Dodgers are somehow unfairly gaming the system is stupid; every ownership group could afford it, most choose not to and let their fans carry their water and cry poor.
Every ownership group does not get the same local TV money the Dodgers get that literally pays their “official” payroll.
There is a difference between what the business brings in and their personal wealth. No billionaire will run a business spending more than he is bringing in, otherwise he wouldn’t BE a billionaire.
Well said
New York and Los Angeles have a big advantage simply because more endorsements come to players on big market teams. The deferrals are not a big advantage. If you want to complain, complain about the owners who are spending too little. Even if you counted Shoehi at $68 million per year, the Dodgers had a lower payroll than the Mets and Yankees in 2024.
@Dropped Its nice seeing there are few comments in here that are not derived in financial ignorance.
Amazing that people are still crying about deferrals when they are not the issue. The issue is as it has been for decades, large market teams have more spending power. And the larger the contract the more open to deferrals a player will likely be.
@dropped third strike
When spending over $100MM for player salaries, a team can hardly be said to be poor. However, in relative terms for the sport, fans of mid and small market teams are able to acknowledge the uneven playing field. LA, NY, and Boston, when willing, have a huge advantage. “No fans at this point should be able to cry ignorant.” Yet Dodger fans continue with the any team can do it falacy.
It’s not even remotely an even playing field, I acknowledge that. But many teams do not even try to leverage the resources that they do have and then fans of those teams instead of being upset that their teams trot out piss-poor rosters born of piss-poor effort from the front office and piss-poor development of piss-poor prospects from piss-poor drafting they instead want to scream “deferrals” and be mad at teams like the Dodgers who do those things well AND spend money.
I know it will never happen but just imagine if the Dodgers somehow ended up bankrupt.
All that deferred money…
What keeps getting missed somehow is that the CBA dictates that the team pays all deferred money into an escrow account within 2 years of that money being earned. The deferred money is going to have no impact on future spending or financial obligations at all.
the CBA dictates that the team pays all deferred money into an escrow account within 2 years
===========================
I don’t know why people don’t get this. It’s the same as a 401k in principle. Your employer takes an agreed-upon percentage of your salary, and puts into an account for you, which will be worth more when you withdraw it ‘x’ number of years from now.
It happened. Under previous ownership. Guggenheim is a far different animal than Frank McCourt.
It happened because MLB let McCourt buy the Dodgers when they shouldn’t have, and then the McCourts used the team as a fun money fund until MLB stepped in.
Frank McCourt’s punishment? He still owns the parking lot, and he sold the team for a lot more than he paid for it.
McCourt co-owns the parking lot, with the Dodgers.
News flash: the current Dodgers ownership bought the team out of bankruptcy, and this happened under a cheapskate owner who disinvested in the team and treated like a personal piggybank. Fortunately this ownership seems to know what they are doing.
TJeck: the deferred money is in an escrow account. PLAYERS STILL GET PAID!
The funds have to be set aside but not in an escrow account. The funds can be invested and managed. A hugely important distinction.
It’s really the payments that are deferred though, not the money. The money has to be there by rule, and they have to prove to MLB they are paying that money into an account.
Regardless, you can ask: is what the LAD are doing by deferring payment on a majority or their starting personnel a good thing for baseball? Is it something that should be modified so they pay CBT on the total amount of the contract (ie, on Ohtani’s $700MM instead of current value)? Those are important discussion points that will almost certainly be brought forth in the next CBA by someone.
But, the reality is that it’s *not* the Dodgers fault. They simply have a better management team. Couple those quality FO people with their commitment to winning and you have intuitive, intelligent people taking advantage of a system that’s available for all to use. Simply put, they’re just better at it than everyone else. Frankly, I wish the Yankees had the Dodgers personnel.
As much as I dislike the Dodgers (rivals), why shouldn’t their fans be happy and excited? I certainly would be.
Clipper, it wouldn’t make any economic sense to use the deferred payments for CBT calculations since this is salary plus interest, and in some case, many years of interest. You might argue it should count against the CBT in the payout years, but it’s easily seen how this method could be abused. Also, the CBT changes with every CBA so this creates an impossible moving target.
The solution seems to actually be much simpler, and involves changing the economic incentives. The current CBA includes the very modest fixed cost of money of 4.43%. Presumably this was set when interest rates were lower as it’s barely more than the current 10-year T-bill rate. A hedge fund owner such as Guggenheim has to feel very confident in being able to beat this rate of return on invested funds so they are hugely incentivized to defer salaries and maybe even offer players higher salaries than other teams if the players defer part of it.
So I’d say, increase the cost of money in the CBA to something harder to beat with investments, say 10-year treasury note plus 3%, and perhaps allow it to float. In this scenario the ten-year payout on Ohtani’s deferred $46M/year would be closer to $93M. This number might be too high for even Guggenheim to accept the risk.
Makes a lot of sense Blue. Honestly, I hadn’t put that much thought into it, but it seems a very viable option.
This assumes the players and owners believe the current system is broken, and so far I’m not hearing any of that. Only some fans seem to get lathered up about it, and seemingly mostly the ones who don’t understand the basic financial concept at work here.
Yeah I agree. It’s funny that the fans get so mad about it because the players AND the owners are making out on the deal. If not, one side would be complaining and they’re not.
Isn’t it technically a four year extension, as he was already under team control for 2025?
Lani – depends on the terms of contract. If it starts now (voids current 2025) or if they play under 2025 and just tack on 4 years.
So, could he either way.
And MLB is worried about Steve Cohen.
Exactly! I don’t think anyone can really do anything about the Dodgers. Players just want to play for them that much more than any other team in baseball. The funny thing is that Reinsdorf was the one adamantly urging other owners to block Cohen from taking over the Mets, hahaha. That’s not a great look right now after the season the Sox just had. Still, if people had the choice, sunny, luxurious California or… ehhhh Minnesota… nobody is choosing Minnesota.
Well the Dodgers can only have 26 players on their active roster, so should be more than a few other pretty good players left for other teams to sign.
Players usually want to play where they make the most $. Dodgers don’t get too many bargains. Weather helps. Winning helps. But they are paying the most most of the time.
… but those state taxes!!! Ouch!
It’s funny that the Dodgers committed money in 2048 is probably already higher than most teams committed money in 2025. Well, not ha-ha funny, more like “my interpreter was the only one betting” funny.
Really? Still?
Still? It’s only been a few months. Ask the fans of Pete Rose how long the gambling stink lingers.
Rose gambled and admitted it. Ohtani didn’t gamble. Try using facts instead of innuendo and stupidity. Read the indictment. Can you read?
I’m sure you were in the room and can prove that.
People are not charged all the time that committed crimes. Some even run for office.
as I said…read the reports and the official filings. or believe whatever you prefer. there are plenty of conspiracy quacks to keep you company if you want to go that way.
Rose didn’t admit it until 15 years later. Can you count that high? If not, let me tell your reading ass that 15 years is a lot longer than a few months.
what’s your point genius? they had the goods on Rose from the get go. When he chose to admit his gambling and rationalize his encounters with underage girls is irrelevant. The investigations made by several authorities about Ohtani’s situation are available for anyone to read, your also irrelevant sarcasm notwithstanding. You’re an inveterate troll, posting only negative crap about a host of topics, well known to all of us who frequent this site.
Pot, meet kettle.
I’m glad I am well known to you, because honestly I have never heard of you before. And I don’t think I ever will again because you are just a nasty person.
Reality meet fantasy.
Hilarious coming from you
I read the reports. It says that the interpreter lost $40M. The interpreter makes maybe $200k take-home. Which means the bookie extended him 200 years of credit.
Either the bookie knew he was stealing from Ohtani, or Ohtani knew. Of that there can be no dispute.
After that, if you believe that the interpreter stole Ohtani’s log-ins, scammed the bank, scammed Ohtani’s lawyers, and that Ohtani didn’t open up a single bank statement in 26 months, sure, anything could be true.
But if there was $1M on the table, and you get it all if you guess correctly, everyone will guess that Ohtani is involved.
Yeah. Reports also once said documents like Steele dossier were fact and hunter b laptop was fake Russian news.
I wouldn’t trust reports from any government agency esp when they stand to lose out on all the money mlb donates to gov officials.
I 100% believe Ohtani knew of his gambling habit. But knowing someone has a gambling addiction and knowing they’re stealing from you isn’t a crime unless you report it as such.
Question is did Ohtani enable it in any form like pay off his debts personally. That I don’t think j did. I do think ohtani gave ippei permission or looked away with a blind eye about the funds.
I don’t think Ohtani gambled but no way he banks or his finance teams were unaware of large sums going missing like that.
I hear they are passing out free tinfoil hats on aisle three.
All it takes it one bored anon data breach to tell the truth releasing internal documents from ohtani’s camps dodgers camps banks camp. Nothing stays secret forever. I look forward to the inevitable downfall dodgers and fans will face.
You’d be surprised what boredom does to people. I’m sure Nintendo also thought they’d never be hacked yet were and saw tons of data leaks occur.
that presumes like all conspiracy theorists that we don’t already know the truth. oh so much more entertaining to fantasize about secret plots.
millions of halfwits can’t be wrong.
Theres “the truth” and there’s “the truth you believe from ppl you’re willing to truth”. Those are two very different things.
As the old saying goes there’s his story her story and the truth.
Yeah aliens don’t exist there’s not such thing don’t be stupid says the government saying weather balloons and other “truth” cover up stories. (1950s)
We the governments of the world have been hiding any and all evidence and research about aliens (2020s)
“I’m from the government and I’m here to help” yeah totally. As FEMA gets caught telling agents to skip over hurricane victims houses that have R signs posted in the front yards.
Never mind the tinfoil hats in aisle three. I can see you’ve already got one.
I guess halfwit was too generous for some. Let’s go with quarterwit.
Hiflew – There are a couple on here that cannot accept anything being said about their beloved Dodgers except what they find acceptable and get nasty about it.
Just ignore them.
Are you saying the government didn’t cover up existence of aliens and FEMA didn’t get caught denying hurricane relief to people with R signs?
Sounds like you might be an ostrich blue skies. Life’s much easier with your head in the sand.
Are you denying the government hid existence of aliens from the public, denying FEMA got caught denying hurricane relief to people with R signs, and all the other times the government got caught lying to people about information and their involved world affairs?
The government loves uneducated people such as yourself Bivouac who don’t pay attention. Keep up the good work.
wow. seek help.
Still haven’t proven anything I said wrong there smoothie brain.
Cause you can’t.
The government covered up and hid evidence of alien activity from the public for decades and FEMA got caught directing agents to not give help to people cause of political signs. That’s fact.
And it’s not even top 10 worst things the US government has done, lied about, and covered up Lmao. That list is long and extensive.
you mean like when did you stop beating your wife?
seek help Butker
Random baseless insult cause you can’t counter facts. Nice.
you wouldn’t know a fact if it hit you between the eyes. one can’t debate facts with someone who has no basis in reality.
seek help.
Still haven’t proven anything I said wrong there. Cause you can’t lmao.
You’re attempting dodge but that’s what scared children do lmao. They try to avoid things when they’re wrong.
try re-reading the replies slowly. sound out the big words. eventually maybe something will sink in. done with you. it’s like talking to a child.
“The government caught lying and covering up the truth isn’t based in reality”
Really? That’s the take you want to go with bivouac? Lmao well no one has accused you of being intelligent in your life obviously.
Butker, look up “you can’t prove a negative.”
I always do.
They said similar things whenever Jose Canseco’s book about PEDs came out too and look where that went. Not every conspiracy theory is true for sure, but that doesn’t make it impossible either.
Every conspiracy theory has a “they” in it. You don’t have to say or even know who “they” are in the conspiracy. It’s just… them. You know, them! Conspiracy theorists also generally have a difficult time distinguishing between possible and likely. This is how “it isn’t impossible” becomes an argument. The conspiracy theorist believes this shifts the burden of proof to others. What do you mean, pigs don’t fly? Prove it!
And so it goes.
“The government has never lied or deceived or withheld evidence from any one ever!”
That’s the hill you wanna die on jack? Lmao alright.
They being the government.
Name your agency
CIA
FDA
FBI
FEMA
Military branches
Executive branch
Judicial branch
Legislative branch
People say they blue skies because
1. Its entire departments within the government
2. Sometimes its multiple departments
3. Its multiple people involved
You really confused why people use they? Lmao. That’s actually one of their easier things to explain.
In the case of hiding evidence of aliens
Air Force and Navy withheld evidence for years of encounters with stuff they couldn’t explain such as propulsion systems light years ahead of where any country is in terms of technology
Far as fema denying hurricane relief to people with R signs at their houses the department is FEMA and could involve more people depending how far the directive goes up the chain of command. They tried to say it was some rogue lady who issued the mandate but she immediately said higher ups told her to do so.
And so it goes.
Gave you an explanation of who they is
Gave you examples of times you’ve been deceived
If you wanna live in blissful ignorance thinking government is your friend well continue to do so if you wish blue skies.
Hopefully you don’t get hit by the next earthquake to strike California which will demolish LA. The government’s out of money and could only offer hurricane victims in North Carolina 750 bucks, if they qualified, and have to pay it back if they took it.
A lost cause.
Standard insurance doesnt cover earthquake damage. 46% chance to experience a magnitude 7 within next 30 years.
Meet the new Chris Taylor.
Hi there Richard. I really like your music.
Polygon Window was the best stuff he did.
I like everything but the Drukqs album…that one was a bit too staccato & manic. Try the Window Licker EP and/or Come to Daddy EP great artwork and the music will permanently dement you in a good way!
I am not worried about their use of deferrals, but I just don’t understand the overpay for Edman. He is a (at best) an average hitter his whole career and will start to slow down defensively as he goes through this contract. Plus if you go all metrics on us, his OPS is literally 100 for his career. Good for him, but not great for baseball when his level of player gets that sort of pay.
Not a overpay. $ paid down the road is much less $. You would rather have $ to invest in 2026 2027 2028. There’s value outside of ops. If $ wasn’t deferred it’s a awful contract. But as is it’s fine.
Dodgers haters are welcome to cry at me today or defer that envy over the next 10 years.
Now the Dodgers can cut Chris Taylor
Michael Kopech and Edman for Vargas seems a bit of a highway robbery, no?
yes
Edman had 1 year of team control left and was hurt at the time of the trade. He really wasn’t all that valuable. I thought he had negative trade value at the time of the deal actually.
Farsighted.
All that valuable? 17 WAR seems pretty valuable to me. Especially with games played. Jazz, Gleyber, D Swanson, and bichette to name a few. Edman has more value even being injured lol
It was a year and 2 months of team control and he was hurt when he was traded. How much value could he possibly have had?
lol. trades are about future value, not history. did LAD get lucky or were they simply smart? You’ve heard of scouting and player analysis right?
The Cardinals made an extremely similar trade when the dealt Harrison Bader to the Yankees for Jordan Montgomery. And that worked out great for the Cardinals.
Yeah I think they got a bit lucky. Edman didn’t just get healthy what did he win NLCS MVP?
The only future value Edman had was 1 season and a couple months. That’s it. And he was scheduled to make 9 million in 2025 before they gave him the extension.
Yes, but Edman for Fedde seemed about right.
White Six did get two prospects with Vargas, but they were low profile.
and Kopech…
10 years from now the Dodgers are going to be paying $100+ million in deferred payments to players no playing for them. This haas to stop. Yes the Mets are paying Bonilla but it’s $1 million and that was a buyout of the remaining money (still a very stupid deal). MLB make sure teams pay players all salaries without these huge sign on bonuses which is also trying to get around the system.
They will be paying money but it wont count against the luxury tax as technically that money is in the luxury tax during the initial contract, although at a lessor amount due to inflation.
Your sign on bonus comment doesn’t make sense at all. The bonus adds to the contract’s AAV which is what they’re taxed on. It inflates the luxury tax in every year other than year 1. Let’s say someone signs a 5 year 80M deal with 20M sign on bonus. Each year will be taxed at 20M even though they earn less in years 2-5.
“This haas to stop.”
Nice of you to be so concerned with the Dodgers’ future.
” these huge sign on bonuses which is also trying to get around the system.”
In what way does this “get around the system”? The AAV is still the same, which is all that matters.
Money they already set aside, earning interest all the while to bring it to the amount fully owed.
The deferral payments won’t do a thing to the Dodgers’ ability to spend in 5 or 10 years. It’s not as if they’re dodging money now that’ll suddenly come due. The money is already being set aside each year of the contracts.
Wasting your typing fingers. Explained that and similar issues several times, in this thread alone, as have others.
Around 450m in a treasury bond now is 680m in 10 years. That’s not exactly what’s happening but you get the idea.
That is basically what is happening. Dodgers are paying Ohtani 20 million over the next 10 years, 680 million over the next 10 years after that. The Dodgers are socking away 40-something million a year into an interest-bearing venture of some kind, which will end up being the total amount they owe Ohtani in the second 10 year span.
Who knows what the tax will be in 10 years. 300 350 400 or none. Still leaves 250 or whatever. And if rules don’t change and they shouldn’t but you never know, well they could just defer those contracts too.
Do your research. Starting in 2035 they will have almost $190 million avv in deferred salaries until 2045 and they still need to sign a LF and Soto woukd push them to a ridiculous level that could potentially bankrupt them
Wrong, it’s already being set aside and earning even more. The more the Dodgers defer the richer they get, not more in debt.
Yes, leverage is a thing. So is reverse leverage.
Baseball is ruined.
Baseball was ruined the minute free agency was allowed by the court
Good for Edman. I’ve always like versatile players.
Dodgers are going to make sure there are rules about deferring money to avoid tax hits in the next CBA. Until then they’ll keep making a mockery of the luxury tax.
Making a mockery how…..by paying the tax?
They are paying the tax while avoiding paying even more tax. What the dodgers are doing is smart and any team with deep pockets cash wise can do it. It’s also using a loophole to avoid additional tax. The players are actually avoiding CA tax as well collecting these signing bonuses and deferred payments when they aren’t in CA.
They gave a jobber 5/74! Wow…of course deferred LMAO.
That’s the NLCS MVP, can’t wait to see him continue to collect hardware
Don’t worry the deferred money they’ll get from the Giants for Snell will make up for it lol. Snell is set to get 17 million to pitch against the Giants lol.
Blake Snell will not be getting paid by the Giants. He opted out of his contract.
Just sign half the league to deferred contracts while you’re at it and make the rest of MLB field AAAA squads.
Baseball’s financials are fundamentally broken- if this were any other team doing the same thing it’d be just as bad.
Many more will start doing it you would think. Who doesn’t like making even more $?
All the financially smart teams ARE doing it. It is totally legal.
Do they eat Taylor’s deal in full (release) or in part (trade) or does this close the door on Kike coming back?
I think Taylor is kept and Kike now looks for work elsewhere.
@dts; I hope for the exact opposite.
Really hope kike comes back and brings his brother Teoscar with him.
Taylor has negative trade value.
The only question is when they let him go.
Kind of a silly contract. I mean they have infinite money but how is he worth that much?
Right ! And they could have just paid him that money at anytime. Why not July or end of next season ?
25m is weaker $ and $ they can put to work sooner for themselves. Teams are looking at players differently than in the past. Or more like recent years because in the past enough they would have valued the same thing. Still it’s no bargain. But not some massive overpay. Just meh.
A) Highly versatile defensively, and B) High level defense at each position. Edman may be league average offensively, but offense is only one part of a players value. Add his excellent base running and his base stealing and he’s on average about a 3.0-3.5 WAR player per full season. 1.0 WAR is worth approximately $8-$9 million in salary, making the contract just about league average.
LA has 2 of the best utility players in baseball now.
Tommy Edman & mookie betts
Chris Taylor 2.0.
Meanwhile ohtani is still tryna figure out how his interpreter stole $17 mil
I get it. OJ spent 30 yrs tryna figure out who really killed his wife
It’s been pretty well substantiated how his interpreter stole his money. Ignorance is a choice.
So is living in a naive lala land bubble
We respect your choice, Trane.
Yes, selecting where you live is a choice. Great job finally saying something true Coltrane, even if it was irrelevant to the topic.
The fact that this article doesn’t involve Ohtani, you’ve been making vague racial-related comments, and that you’ve been hating on him since he won the NL MVP (and even before that) shows how pathetic you are, johncoltrane
Congratulations Tommy! You were my favorite player on the Cards, and I still root for you wherever you play. Some day players like you will make bigger bucks when owners realize your true worth!
Uh Spud, $74 million is big bucks.
And if he lives to 2074, he sure will enjoy it!
Wish I could defer my monthly bills for, oh, twenty years or so. Can I get Ohtani’s agent on that?
Halfway seriously, the Dodgers are piling up gazillions of deferred bills. They must think the sold-out games and the big local TV money will last forever, or at least for a couple more decades. They might be right, but it’s a risky bet.
They prepay all the deferrals into an escrow account. They won’t rely on future revenue to pay deferrals.
The CBA requires deferred money to be paid into an escrow account at most two years after it is earned. While the Dodgers can prepay, there’s no requirement for them to do so. In fact, it makes all the sense in the world for them to defer the escrow payments as long as possible. For instance, they can make the escrow payment for Ohtani’s 2030 deferred earnings as late as 2032.
Which is exactly what I think they’ll do. There really are betting that plenty of money will be available in 2032 for the payment, on top of all the other bills that year. Again, they may be right given their proven ticket-selling prowess plus the TV money in the country’s second-biggest market. But there’s obvious risk.
2 years after its earned meaning this year they have until 2026 to fund $68M. That 2 year rule really lessens that risk dramatically. They’ll also know revenue changes in future tv deals more than 2 years in advance so they can make necessary preparations should things go south.
This is exactly correct.
Casey
You can defer your bills for 15 or 30 years. It is called a home mortgage.
I have been a Dodger fan since 1968. Through ups and downs. Through the WS drought and the McCourt years. Since 2012, they have had owners that know how to put a excellent product on the field and have the ability to pay for it – BTW, their 1st few years were built on Farm grown players. Guggenheim bought low (Dodgers were essentially bankrupt at that time – 2012) and built from there. Won the pennant year after year, but it took 12 years to win the series (excluding 2020). George Steinbrenner was notoriously good at this as well. Everyone wants to knock the winner off their pedestal. I get it, but you can’t blame an organization for having the wherewithal to do it right. In addition, they have a history of taking so so players and getting the best out of them. Tommy Edman anyone? That’s not money, that’s coaching. Unfortunately, I can no longer afford to attend games at Dodger Stadium. But that’s another story altogether.
Not sure a lot of people fully understand how deferred money works for the team.
Let’s use Ohtani and an example:
He got paid 2 million in 2024. That means 68 million was deferred until 2034. But in 2026, the Dodgers need to set aside the cash to pay Ohtani 68 million in 2034. So it’s not like they don’t have to put away in a safebox the money. But they can make money off the money they set aside for 8 years. And nobody is better at this than Guggenheim – that’s their day job.
But the collective bargaining agreement does not leave fully to chance that a team will be able to come up with 68 million in 2034. That money will have been put away for Ohtani in 2026.
Still, a huge benefit to the team. But it’s not like the team doesn’t have to start setting aside the necessary money to pay 68 million until 2034, they have to start doing so in 2026. But, what they have to set aside is probably 46 million, not a full 68. So basically the Dodgers will be paying roughly 46+ million for Ohtani starting in 2026. But Ohtani won’t get it until 2034.
The Dodgers can grow the set aside money and maybe even make a profit on it. (Again, that’s Guggenheim’s specialty). But basically from a cash standpoint starting in 2026, they are paying Ohtani roughly 46 million a year, not 2 million.
This works especially well when a player defers without interest.
In Ohtani’s case, he had the once in a lifetime ability to generate an extra 46 million profit (probably more) for the team a year. He for sure pays for himself and probably way more. That’s unique to Ohtani.
Soto can’t do that. As great a hitter as he is. So unless he’s willing to defer without interest, it’s hard to imagine any team paying him as mush as the Dodgers paid Ohtani.
If he is going to break 600, my guess is it takes at least a 13 year contract. With no deferrals, 13 x 46.2 would be what it’d take.
But remember, he’ll never pay for himself and make a profit for the team like Ohtani will.
I think the only caveat is that it has to be put into an escrow account within 2 years of the salary being earned so they may earn interest there but they can’t invest it outside of that.
Yes. It won’t be listed in the cash payroll number you’ll see in 2026, but the Dodgers are spending it. When the deferred money comes due, Dodgers won’t be first coming up with 680 million over ten years.
Anyone who is “angry” about deferrals is an idiot. I make more money than I spend in a year and defer 20 to 30% of my salary / bonus. It’s actually built into the IRS tax code. If other teams can’t figure out how to use it to their advantage it’s hard to be mad at the Dodgers for figuring it out.
Sure, but you just called the majority of mlb trade rumors commenters idiots. You could be more selective in your vocabulary
Okay, maybe idiot was a strong term, sorry. But I also think it’s a stretch to say the majority are angry. Jealous? Yes, but I don’t think most are angry.
Salary cap please
or at least maybe a salary floor to force small market teams to spend
Both, but it’s all a pipe-dream…
edman does not deserve this
Who does then?
not edman
ig this would maybe make sense for any other team
but the dodgers just get every player out there and just throw a to of money at em
That’s a lazy take. The Dodgers scouting, analyzing, and developing are second to none. They find more hidden value than anyone. They might spend a lot, but they also spend better than anyone else.
There’s a 26 man roster so I don’t see how the dodgers are able to get every player out there.
dodgers just throwing a hell ton of money at anybody they want
This is becoming a rather large deferred sum. To the point where even with Dodgers market it’s becoming a liability to meet these future obligations.
Tommy came up big for us at the end of the season but seems like an overpay and way too many years.
I remember back in the 70s the Reds were the first team with a million dollar payroll. I wonder who will have the first Billion dollar payroll. Probably not my White Sox I’m sure. I
According to FanGraphs the Edman signing brings the LAD 2025 LT number to the 306-316 range. I’d imagine they are nearly set for next season.
If the deferral trend ends or they somehow flop more years than not, they will be crippled to meet future obligations and stay competitive.
There’s a lot of risk with kicking the can down the road, but taking advantage of Ohtani’s window is a smart gamble in my book.
The deferred payments are being made now, not “down the road.” That money is going into escrow. When these contracts expire, so does the Dodgers’ financial obligation.
Thanks for the correction. I didn’t realize it was interest free escrow.
That shifts the risk to near term performance even more strongly and does vibe as a major market ploy only in terms of available capital, even if it makes fiscal sense when capable.
Smartest management team in baseball. Helps that players love living and playing in LA. Cant blame the Dodgers if players like it there.
Reminiscent of the four-year, $60 million extension the Los Angeles Dodgers signed with utility player Chris Taylor three years ago.
Taylor has posted 2.4 fWAR, valued at $19.4 million, over the first three seasons of the four-year contract.
$15 mil AAV for a 711 OPS hitter with some poor fielding for a utility player?
I thought the Angels standards were low. Dodgers should take Rendon’s contract.
Edman gives great defensive at 3 positions.
So did marwin Gonzales . Went unsigned even after his ws season. Then couldn’t hit after a year or too.
I was responding to you saying he gives poor defense. That’s not true.
I would not describe Edman as great defense at shortstop, only great at 2B and CF. But I would object even more to calling his fielding “poor”.
I wonder if this means that Chris Taylor is gone. I would love it if the Mets could work out a trade to take Taylor’s contract and the Dodgers include Emil Morales in the deal, as I am very high on him. Mets can give up McNeil in the trade. Taylor, in my opinion, is probably in the bottom 3 worst players in the league.
I like playing the CBT game. But I’ve gotten over it. I’d rather watch a win from my couch bc the tickets are too pricey, than watch them lose in person bc they didn’t invest in the team.
Get Teo, Kersh, Kiké, Buehler. Run it back.
Best day ever for the Edman family.
Congrats dude.
I’m happy to see Tommy get long term security. I always liked him as a player.
The deferrals are between the team and the players. I don’t care one way or the other. The players wouldn’t be signing if they thought the deferrals are a problem.
Ain’t my money. Let the players go where they may. They still gotta take the field and play the game. Edman got paid for doing his part to bring a ring to Dem Bums…nothing wrong with that.
Edman must have a good glove. Carrer .263 BA, OPS+ 100
I don’t believe stolen bases count in OPS+.
Dodger homers take on Jake Cronenworth:
Padres are paying a super utility guy 12 mill a year who plays above average defense and has about a league average bat. Stupid
Also Dodger homers take on Tommy Edman
Yes we get to pay a super utility player with a league average bat and above average defender at multiple positions 16 mill a year! Wonderful move! Smartie smart smart
f right off Solis. Go cry in your basement of tears.
These players need to include some interest payments on that deferred money. That money won’t be worth as much in the future.
Doubtful. The team earns the interest. The player gets the higher earnings than normal by spreading out the payments . Most working world checks are held two weeks. The company makes interest on your money.
Yeah, he’s a great defender, a smart baserunner and a very decent bat. Plus he provides management with great flexibility when setting lineups and making substitutions. These are all things the Dodgers really value. and put to use.
No entiendo.
The large number of people posting about financial matters that they obviously have little to no understanding of is truly comical. Do some reading about deferred income (you know like your 401K or IRA in addition to sports contract deferrals) and learn how the CBT and AAV and luxury tax are calculated before you embarrass yourself complaining about things you do not comprehend.
Seems like an incredible overpay. I get, WS hero. However, since when is .230s/290s/400s respectable? I get the versatility and all but who were they competing with that would’ve given him that kind of deal? These referrals seem to be getting out of hand too but I guess if the player wants to be Dodge then they’ll do it.
I don’t love the contract. No one is showing up to see this guy. It’s not enough savings for an extension. You are betting on defense speed to last until age 35. But it’s ok. Not some massive over pay. Guys with those numbers don’t usually make much. But they aren’t plus or elite defenders at multiple positions. Don’t make as much contact. Don’t run as well.
This deferral BS is ridiculous. So the Dodgers get to keep on piling on the talent while not paying out till 2082 so they get to skirt the CBT line. MLB should do something about it, but Manfred being the moron that he is won’t and they’ll continue to win every other WS for the next decade. This is one of the many reasons why MLB has fallen so far behind the NFL and NBA. You have 6 teams that truly have the chance to contend deep into October. Yeah you’ll have the one offs like Zona a few years back, but for the most part it’s gonna be the same Ole same Ole.
That’s not even close to how deferrals and the CBT works
Dtown: whatever you said is so wrong. Deferred money concept has been explained about 20 times in this thread alone.
Any team could do it. Majority of teams don’t need to but they could.
74 mil to a utility infielder?
25 deferred and when you are spending 300 a year whats 74 total. Most teams wouldn’t want to do this but if anyone can it’s LA.
Think of it more along the lines of 74 mil for a + defense/league average bat CF whose salary is worth closer to 60 mil when you account for deferrals. Who can hit top or bottom of lineup as needed and steal bases. And also play middle infield.
As was pointed out, the true value is really in the 60s for 5 years, and according to Baseball Reference, he has a 4.6 WAR per 162 games played in his career. That’s excellent, so overall a really good value.
Nothing wrong with deferred money if that money is able to be invested to benefit the player
It’s so sickening. Buy these players and pay them more than they could possibly get on the open market. You ruined baseball by shoving your wallet down everyone’s throats, congrats to you and your scummy fans.
Hey Mickey Solis is back.
Dodgers spending money like they are angry at it. I don’t mind this signing. He’s not that good and they paid a lot. No one else would come near that annual salary.
@Dorn’s Contract Edman’s a 3 WAR player / 650 PA who put up a 6 WAR season in 2022. That’s NOT a “not that good” player. That’s a very good player, and part of the Dodgers’ bet is that his 2025 is likely to be good enough to push his FA deal noticeably higher than what Edman accepted this offseason.
Average hitters who can play above average defense up the middle aren’t players you can get for 1/10m or 2/25m or even 3/40m. They cost, and in general the Dodgers have done better with players turning 30 and older than anyone else, though I can see how Chris Taylor and AJ Pollack might give their fans pause in this regard.
The Los Angeles Deferrals
Oh how I enjoy seeing the haters hate. Warms my heart.
“Your favorite team’s owner could do it too!” The clown Dodgers bandwagoners refrain. Enjoy your tainted repeat. I put down $500 on it. Easy money, fella.
The players may lose their value as they age, but the deferrals will just be cash paid out from the investment income that the Guggenheim Group nets from the delayed payments. That will have no impact on the Dodgers.
Are you just guessing that? Doesn’t seem completely founded, but I’m honestly not 100% sure.
Jersey. You are consistently wrong when you comment. Maybe take a little time to Google things before you comment.
Dodgers defer because they know civilization will end in the next 4 years, might as well punt it down the road
Now sign Soto, Willy Adames, Teoscar Hernandez, Roki Sasaki, Jack Flaherty, and Blake Treinen and off to spring training we go.
The Dodgers made a nice pivot to Blake Snell when they found out Sasaki is going to sign elsewhere with another team and it helps when the GM of that team actually can speak Japanese and has been talking with him for the last two to three years.
The NL West is going to be fun to watch with the Dodgers, Padres, Giants and Diamondbacks doing battle and the Rockies, who aren’t going to be in contention anytime soon, but can still throw a monkey in the wrench and ruin any of these teams weekend.
For crying out loud, Dodgers should’ve been funding Ukraine and paid off all student debt
The Japanese fans love Edamame.
Lol…Edman is Korean American
Dodgers, looking to go back to back to back and create a dynasty.
Money, money, money, must be funny, in the rich man’s (Dodgers) world.
The Dodgers are the Yankees of the NL, Mets not far behind.
As a Dodgers fan who lived through the McCourt years, when all the players were named Jason and they all hit .160, and Frank used the team as his ATM, it THRILLS me to hear people hating them now because they spend the freaking money on the team.
Soto to A’s. 15 years 1 billion dollars deferred to after the new stadium is built. His annual salary next year $775k.
As a Giants fan, I think I will just check-out until 2030 at least when some of the Dodger deferrals kick in. Maybe then we might have a chance after the Dodgers have won 5 consecutive WS and blow the rest of the baseball world out of the water by signing every A free agent.
sounds good.
Ok, rec567. I am foursquare behind your decision to check out.
I was more of a tetherball guy than a four square guy.
Jesus, that kind of money for a guy hovering around a career .250 BA? This is why the Dodgers are destroying baseball. Other .250 hitters with speed are gonna point to that and say “I’m worth that kind of deal” when most teams won’t give them the light of day. Then hostile negotiations for a still overpaid agreement. Dodgers fans can defend all they want but not many other teams can afford these massive signing bonuses PLUS the insane AAVs.
This is a deal I think blows up in their face. But they can afford to DFA a guy making $13 mil per year if it doesn’t work out
Yo dawg. It’s not 1975. We look at more than batting average when determining value.
A guy without power though? Speed decreases with age and so does defense. I just think it’s too much for what Edman will give them, but we’ll see.
100 OPS+ career. 93 the last 2 seasons. Clearly in decline at the plate. 0.9 WAR last season. Even his defense was just mediocre. with a -1 DRS and 1 OAA.
17 war though. 2 less than Bryan Reynolds lol. Same age with less ABs.
The guy has a 4.6 WAR per 162 games played. That’s really good. BA is really a poor measure in today’s game.
do you actually understand basic concepts like supply and demand? If no other teams can afford an Edman-like deal for a player with similar credentials then no other team will sign one. If Edman is as lame as you imply, the only team that will be hurt by such a bad contract is the Dodgers.
You clearly didn’t properly read nor understand my comment
have it your way.
Next time read it standing up, to ensure you are doing it properly.
It’s easy to become a Dodgers fan especially after them signing my Favorite Cardinals player in Tommy Edman to an extended contract.
I would love to see the Dodgers sign the other 2 of my favorite Cardinals players — —-
Nolan Arenado for and his remaining contract and a one year deal with Paul Goldschmidt!!!
All three would fit nicely in the Dodgers starting lineup!!!
It’s good to have a dream.
Unfortunately for your dream, there’s no room for Goldschmidt and Freeman.
Not Goldschmidt, my friend.
The Dodgers are just using the rules as written to enhance their team and they obviously feel good about their business model and it’s not like other teams can’t do the same thing with deferred money. The players have to agree to it and I think it’s a really smart move because how often do we hear about players that made more money playing professional sports than the fans will make in a lifetime and then end up flat broke. He will be getting paid long after his playing days are over and I say congratulations to him. He is one of those players that can play anywhere and when healthy was always a pest to opposing teams and I love players that can do that because it’s really hard to quantify their value but the Dodgers were able to do just that.
Tommy Edman is a great guy and smart…played High School Baseball for his dad at La Jolla Country Day(private school), went on to play College Baseball at Stanford and gets drafted by the Cardinals that up until recently was one of the best organizations in MLB and just for good measure he played for South Korea in the World Baseball Classic…his mom is Korean.
As a Padres fan I congratulate him.
Sure, why not
The new way of doing business boys & girls. The champs are showing you the way John Henry. Jump on board my man or be left behind. Things change amigo. In 5 years from now… you’ll be selling for about 6 billions dollars. Pass the buck to the next billionaire. 7 contracts w/ deferrals & the new cat won’t bat an eye. 50 million dollars a year that they inherited? Is like chump change to them. Give them the dough & prolong your payment is the model. Sheesh! Get off your a$$’s & make some deals knuckleheads. It’s not complicated.
Ol Scotty boy
the new cat won’t bat an eye. 50 million dollars a year that they inherited?
===========================
The money is set aside, so there are no existing liabilities related to the deferrals. And the RS are already deferring salary.
Jays fan, despite them being one of the worst organizations in MLB. As long as they’re owned by Rogers, they will play second fiddle to the NHL. Everyone hates a superteam until it’s their team. At least the Dodgers show their players a little loyalty. Teo should have been a Jay for life, I can only imagine how Boston fans feel about what happened with Mookie Betts. I sincerely hope that Teo gets to retire with a ring on every finger.
Betts wanted to leave Boston. Loyalty goes both ways. And I am pretty sure Hernandez wanted to leave Toronto for Los Angeles.
Teo was traded from TO to Seattle.
Replying to Mr. Knowitall in the area….
Teo was traded from Toronto to Seattle.
He signed for one season in LA.
Continue with the narrative “in the area”.
Gotta love a player who plays with obvious joy and Teo’s got to be a happy man with his attitude, wherever he plays.
When did a .237 batting average become respectable? He’s not even a home run hitter.
first off Edman is a lifetime .263 hitter, but as several others have pointed out it’s not 1975 any more and teams no longer measure a player’s worth mainly by batting average, especially one who plays top of the line defense at 3 key positions.
Whether it is 1965, 1975, or 2024, contact is contact. If the guy isn’t making contact, he isn’t hitting for crap.
and you missed the point. either you see the complete value of the player or you don’t.
Edman is just as good as Gleyber and Jazz or better. So good deal for Dodgers
Bo bichette don’t have much on Edman lol
Willy Adames 21 war not far off from Edman lol. Only if Edman has as many ABs and GM played
Swanson from Cubs is equivalent to Edman
At first I thought comparing Swanson and Edman was pretty ridiculous. However, after looking at the numbers not as much as I expected.
Both players are league average hitters. Dansby career OPS+ is 96. Edman career OPS+ is 100.
Both had a career year in 2022. Dansby had 5.5 bWAR with a 114 OPS+. Edman had 6.2 bWAR with a 107 OPS+.. Now over the last two season Dansby accumulated 8.8 bWAR vs. Edman’s 3 bWAR but some of that is due to injury.
As a Cubs fan, not sure if I would prefer Dansby at $27mm or Edman at $15mm with deferrals. Both are league average bats that provide strong up the middle defense.
We are all waiting with bated breath for the expected Soto and Sasaki signings by the Dodgers.
A trade for Crochet by the Dodgers is on its way.
Fried to the Dodgers followed by Corbin Burnes and Willy Adames too.
Nest is a trade for Aaron Judge and Cole going to the boys in blue too.
Dodgers aren’t done.
Have a favorite player on your squad?
Watch out, he will be wearing Dodger Blue.
Let’s just call them the MLB Dodgers.
what’s your non-competitive team called?
Dumb take, towinagain, which you probably won’t.
Dodgers are the Federal Reserve Bank of MLB. They and only they can print money out of nothing, That Cohen guy in NY is more like the Bank of Japan.
I don’t recall this much vitriol when other teams extend their utility players…
Last year it was the 2020 World Series Championship didn’t count. This year it is deferred money and the great little utility player, Tommy Edman. Can’t wait for next year.
I’ve decided to embrace most of the haters. They make me smile. The really angry ones I simply feel sorry for.
Not a Dodgers fan, but I agree. Lots of envy being posted here. This was a resigning of a player that the Dodgers gave up prospect capital to obtain. Every fan should want their team to resign a player they invested prospect capital into and was successful while on the roster. Seems silly to be upset by it. I was not hoping that my team would sign Tommy Edman and I don’t care how much the Dodgers or any other team spends. I wish they would have paid him more. I wouldn’t be “offended” if they paid him $75 million a year. The more they waste, the better.
Deferring money on the contract of a utility player is diabolical.
Five years!?!
At least it doesn’t have a no-trade clause.
If the CBT numbers are right as far as what I have been reading, then the salary for Edman even with the deferals there will be a 110% tax on it for at least the next two years. Same with Snell….paying 70 a year for Snell and what 20 or so for Edman? Seems wild. Maybe the Doyers will get under the cbt tax soon, but next year they will be in the 110 tax bracket? The contract seems extreme but when you add in the tax on it…..yonkers. How long will it take for the doyers to get out from under the cbt tax?
How much money have they deferred since they signed Ohtani?
Edman had a career year in 2022 and since then has been below average and declining. He had a 0.9 WAR last year. Not even an average ballplayer. Why would anyone sign him long-term?
He had a 0.9 WAR in 37 games coming back from a wrist surgery. Project that out to a full season, and it’s just a tick under a 4 WAR (3.94), and again, that was coming off a wrist injury when he was still knocking off the rust. He was amazing in the NLCS and WS, which is another part of his value – he doesn’t fold in the clutch. He’s good, with around a 4.6 WAR per full season in MLB, and worth the roughly 15 mil/yr.
Edman did not want to play for the Cardinals just like all cardinal rookies. Edman’s intention was always to play for the Dodgers just like Jack Flaherty. No baseball player wants to play in the hot and humid middle america when they could play for “70 degree all the time” coastal team.
Three Points
1) The deferrals argument is just a diversion from the main problem: the competitive financial structure of the sport is out of whack. When a few teams spend a 3, 4 or even 5x multiple of others, anyone here who argues that every club has an equal chance of winning is either fooling himself, flat out lying or (and I don’t mean to be harsh) shouldn’t be taken seriously.
2) Those people who say, “Well, (FILL IN THE BLANK) owner could spend more”, are also missing the point. The small market or less rich owners could BANKRUPT themselves and they still wouldn’t be able to match the teams/owners with the deepest pockets. If the poorer clubs spent to their maximum capacity, the richer teams/owners would just spend more than they are now BECAUSE THEY CAN. The problem would still remain.
3) Lastly, when the rich teams spend as much as they do, it directly affects the poorer teams, not only because they aren’t able to acquire the top free agents: it also drives up the cost of ALL players through arbitration (and the cost of the qualifying offer too).
The poor billionaires in the poor markets should all sell their teams if it is such a bad deal for them. No professional sports teams have gone bankrupt or even sold for less than they were purchased for. Revenue sharing and national revenues total $200 million per team to start the year. Only ten teams spent their “free” league money on payroll. Ten teams don’t even spend the $110 million they get from the league in revenue sharing on payroll. When the Mets spent $90 million on Scherzer and Verlander it allowed small market teams, like the Rays, to sign a guy like Zach Eflin. I’m not sure how the Yankees signing Jacoby Ellsbury hurt the Brewers. The more money the Yankees have tied up in Ellsbury or Donaldson, the better. I wish the Dodgers would have paid Edman $75 million a year. That would be even better for the Pirates. I think we have to admit that some owners just take their revenue sharing and put in their bank account. Then they cry that it isn’t fair. Spend your revenue sharing on payroll, then let’s talk.
Revenue sharing should be required to be spent on payroll. The cost of operating a team doesn’t increase with payroll, so extra money should be spent on on-field product, maybe with some stipulations about increasing academy expenditures and upgrading analysis departments.
I read that article as well, but it’s so much more complicated than that. First, I will flat out agree that all owners are in this for profit. They are businessmen. They aren’t going to take a loss to own a sports franchise. There are some problems though. There are any number of loopholes for teams to hide revenue to protect it from sharing, and that is more heavily weighted toward the teams with the most revenue to begin with. Also, even with the revenue sharing, a team like the Dodgers can afford to spend far more. Recent number put the Dodgers net “profits” after revenue sharing and shelling out for a large payroll at $152 million, About half the league comes in under $75 million, with several having about enough “profit” to buy a single big name free agent. That’s not exactly going to balance things out. “Profit” is in quotes, because much of that money is actually taken up to run operations (stadiums, minor league systems, scouting, etc), so a lot of teams, while making a profit, aren’t making nearly as much as you think.
I know all of what you are saying is true, but the “this isn’t fair” argument never talks about additional revenue streams in conjunction with revenue sharing. The minor league systems and other expenses exist, but league revenue sharing is in addition to advertising including naming rights to stadiums and branding on the stadium and uniforms, ticket sales, concessions, parking, TV and radio deals. There are expenses beyond payroll and revenue beyond revenue sharing. Billionaires that are feeling financial stress from the burden of owning a professional sports franchise should rid themselves of that stress and burden. No takers. That’s what I thought! That should tell you all you need to know.
His speed has already declined from 292.4 ft/sec in 2019 to a pedestrian 27.9 ft/sec last season. That is 66th percentile. Same as speedsters Jake Burger and Austin Riley.
292.4 ft/sec is really really fast for a human. Haha.
Closer to meta human
And yet the slow tub of lard stole 30, 32, and 27 bases in 2021-2023, and has been successful on 95 of his last 107 attempts. Base running is what you’re looking at for speed, and he runs the bases incredibly well and is still a great asset there. He also covers ground very well in the field. The ft/sec argument is basically meaningless when the results of the speed are just as good or better than they were before.
I guess you can’t do math or understand a joke. Running 292.4 ft/sec is the equivalent of running a 100 meter dash in under 2 seconds. If you are going to argue for or against speed… understand what you are talking about. Oh…and learn math while you’re at it.
For the love of baseball, will someone from the MLBTR staff do an “Explain Like I’m 5” of the luxury tax and how the deferred money has zero impact on it?! Oh…and pin it at the top so its always there and never goes away. There are so many commenters on here who have zero idea how it works and every single comment section is flooded with arguments back and forth and it completely takes away from the discussion.
And offer free tutoring over Zoom.
And a hotline
Just make a mandatory reading comprehension quiz before you can comment again. And a requirement for participation in the annual free agency contest.
That would be bad journalism. Fake news. Deferred payments have a huge impact on luxury tax. Why do you think the Dodgers do them so much.
Ok…I will admit that I was partially wrong in saying “zero impact.” You saying “huge impact” is also partially wrong. Ohtani’s contract is the only one with a “huge impact.”
Any amount is huge. It’s a fine line to walk. Even just a few million x 3 4 5 6 players each is incredibly huge. If it wasn’t beneficial they wouldn’t do it.
I enjoy the deferred contracts. It’s also deferred crap-talking fodder for 15 years from now when they still owe a 45-year-old Shohei Ohtani $500 million to sit at home.
The Dodgers won’t owe Ohtani anything in 15 years. All that money is going to escrow right now.
So much controversy about the deferments, but I’m not seeing enough here that (deferments or not), is Tommy Edmonds really worth it??? I can’t see another team offering anything close to that contract.
Edman*
The edit button went away too quick.
Apparently, he’s “worth it” to the Dodgers and, more specifically to Friedman — who’d been pursuing him for quite a while. The return has been substantial so far.
Massive overpay
All this deferral stuff will be the undoing in the next CBA. While we have the chance, come on Hal let’s go with the deferrals – sign Burnes, Fried, Soto, Tanner Scott, Bergman – pay them each .50 cents per year and defer the rest until 2122
Talk about making an impact in a short amount of time. This guy completely flipped the script and trajectory of his career in two months with LA.
Because Edman, apparently, really wanted to play for the Dodgers.
To everyone complaining about the AAV, you don’t know the AAV unless you have the deferral details and calculate the net AAV. I’ll just wait until they announce the CBT amount based on net present value. That’s the real AAV.
I might beed some CBD oil for this.
Does anyone know the total dollar amount in contract commitments that the Dodgers have made as of today? I am not asking what that commitment is for 2025. I am ask for the total commitment for all players for the entire duration of their contract as of today. Then, does anyone know the total dollar amount of the next closest teams commitments using the same formula? It would be interesting to see the gap.
I’d wait until the big players are all signed before doing that.
When I saw there were over 450 comments on a Tommy Edman extension, I knew without opening the thread that at least 3/4 of them were just anti Dodger posts and deferral rhetoric. Thanks for not letting me down
That’s a lot of money for a utility infielder who has an OBP barely over .300 for his career.
It is .317.
Good for Tommy, hated that the Cardinals dealt him, but glad he got a Ring, and an extension.
Really dig Edman, but that’s a lot of cash. Still, while what a grab for the LAD at the time.
i beg to defer with a lot of these comments
The deferred money structure, while useful for immediate payroll flexibility, could pose future challenges as obligations accumulate. This strategy may lead to less financial maneuverability for the Dodgers in subsequent years, particularly if other large deals (like Blake Snell’s five-year contract) don’t yield the expected value.
Fundamentally wrong.
@BlueSkies_LA
tl;dr: You’re cooked!
It seems you’re fundamentally missing the point. The deferred money structure may provide immediate payroll flexibility, but history has shown that it can create significant long-term issues. For instance:
The New York Mets and Bobby Bonilla: The Mets are still paying Bobby Bonilla $1.19 million annually despite him last playing for them in 1999, a contract that will continue through 2035. This deal, while useful for flexibility at the time, has led to years of financial obligations that have restricted the Mets’ ability to spend freely and hurt their future payroll decisions.
The Los Angeles Angels and Albert Pujols: The Angels signed Pujols to a 10-year, $240 million deal, which included substantial deferred money. While Pujols was elite early in the deal, the back end of the contract became a financial burden. The deferred payments, stretching well beyond his playing years, have hampered the Angels’ flexibility in adding new talent and competing at the highest level.
The Chicago Cubs and Jason Heyward: The Cubs signed Heyward to an 8-year, $184 million contract, which also included deferred money. While Heyward played a key role in their 2016 championship, the back end of his deal has been disappointing in terms of on-field production. The deferred payments have limited the Cubs’ ability to spend on other areas of the roster and hindered their long-term team-building efforts.
These examples show that while the deferred money structure might appear beneficial in the short term, it can severely restrict a team’s financial flexibility in the future, particularly when dealing with large contracts that don’t deliver expected performance. The Dodgers may find themselves in a similar situation with Edman and other large contracts down the line, facing a scenario where past obligations impact their ability to make meaningful future moves.
Those examples have no bearing on the payroll of the team. Teams are required to fully fund the contracts to the present value. The deferred value comes from time and interest and is disbursed from the fully funded account, no further commitment from the team.
The terms of the contracts you cite might be accurate. The financial impact they had on those teams beyond the player’s on field time is zero.
Fundamentally wrong. And please don’t expect me to re-explain something that has been explained in detail at least five times in this threat already.
Thread. Thank you auto-incorrect.
The obligations don’t accumulate. They are met fully within two years of being due and placed in an account for the player.
When Snell or Ohtani or anyone else with a deferred money in their contract is done playing, the team they signed for will have no further obligations to them. The bank will have their money and the paying team will have fully vested it.
@DroppedThirdStrike
So, the bank actually hired these players? Noice! Go back to grade 1 maths.
Banks are where the money is kept, grandpa. And the money will be there waiting to get disbursed. The team will have no ongoing financial commitment beyond the playing days of the player.
I haven’t seen the precise mechanisms detailed but it is too simplistic to say the payouts becomes a bank’s obligation. These set-aside funds are still the responsibility of the team, and are managed by them in trust, like an annuity. This is how Wilpon got in trouble with the Bonilla deferral. He invested the set-aside with Bernie Madoff — who made off with it. Had Wilpon invested that money responsibly, the set-aside would have easily funded the salary deferral.
It is the teams responsibility but all I meant was that the financial aspect of the responsibility has been taken care of. There almost certainly weren’t the rules in place 25 years ago regarding deferrals that there are now.
Fair enough. I don’t know what the rules were 25 years ago, but it seems a team could still invest the set-asides poorly and be forced to fund the deferred payouts from cashflow at the time they are due. Elsewhere in this massive discussion I ran the math on Ohtani’s deferrals and showed where a 10% annual return on them over ten years would overfund what Ohtani is owed by enough to cover the deferrals themselves, making his contract effectively free. I strongly suspect this is exactly what Guggenheim has in mind.
If Guggenheim’s executive staff could get a 10% annual return over ten years, every one of them would be off running a billion-dollar plus hedge fund.
Ha. Good one!