Cubs Still Interested In Soriano?

Interesting column from Dave Van Dyck of the Chicago Tribune yesterday.  The gist: a decent spring by Sammy Sosa for the Nationals could make Alfonso Soriano or Jose Vidro more expendable.

Van Dyck's column assumes that the Nationals actually were counting on Soriano to fill an outfield spot, and that Sosa could take that spot instead.  My take: Soriano is seriously not moving to the outfield.  He's said it over and over and my sources said the same before that.  The column also assumes a healthy Jose Vidro.  Despite some positive reports, I'm nowhere near convinced of that.  I don't think the outfield situation affects the second base situation for the Nats.  The only variable is Vidro's health.  If he's in great shape this spring, they have a surplus.

Both Soriano and Vidro's contracts are terribly bloated.  Can Soriano possibly provide $11MM worth of value in 2006?  Highly unlikely.  He's been less than a four win player each season since joining Texas.  According to Baseball Prospectus's Marginal Value Above Replacement Player,  Soriano will be worth around $7MM in this season.

The same system has Vidro worth about $3.5MM in '06 and $2.5MM in '07.  Given that he's owed $16MM over the next two seasons, Jim Bowden would have to kick in some major cash for it to make sense for Chicago.

The Cubs' apparent infatuation with various overpaid second basemen doesn't gel with the supposed new organizational philosophy.  I thought the Cubs were shifting towards OBP and defense, two attributes not found in Soriano's repertoire.  The Cubs would be well served to put their efforts towards Julio Lugo, who is available and was a seven win shortstop in 2005.  Even the most optimistic projection of Ronny Cedeno doesn't call for that kind of production, and three or four extra wins could make all the difference.

The Mets seem content with their internal options for second base, so the Cubs probably are the only team interested in Soriano at this point. 

Comments

[Kyle]

How about the cubs trade Rich Hill and another minor leaguer to Tampba Bay for Lugo and Huff

[kenny lofton]

the cubs apparently wont make a trade unless they acquire a secondbasemen

rich lewis
fontenot
hariston

endles vidro, soriano speculation

any im missing?

[Mike]

I guess Cubs like 2B... Lugo is basically the same thing as a 2B. He would either play 2B while Cedeno plays SS or Cedeno plays 2B while Lugo plays SS. I hope and think it will happen where the Cubs will get either Lugo, Soriano, or Vidro before the season starts. Plus Rich Hill and another minor leaguer might not even get Lugo alone, yet Lugo and Huff.

[JMan]

Has there been any buzz surrounding what the Reds may do, or more specifically what Wayne Krivsky might do now that he has the reigns? Anytime he wants to send over Freel and/or Dunn to the CUbs is fine with me. Problem is the Cubs probably don't match up well.

[Kyle]

Mike I just threw it out there I know Tampa is looking to move huff and lugo and want high ceiling pitching in return. Hill is one of the 2 cubs prospects I know so I just threw it out there. I bet you Freidmann would love to get a guy like hill for Lugo. He sees Upton as the ss of the future and now other than Kazmir they dont have much pitching. A rotation anchored by Kazmir, Hill, Edwin Jackson could be good down the line

[Eric K]

"A rotation anchored by Kazmir, Hill, Edwin Jackson could be good down the line"

I can't see that rotation ever being effective. Kazmir has the makings of a very good pitcher. But Edwin Jackson has shown very little thus far, and Rich Hill came out of nowhere last season. If TB would take Hill for Lugo I am certain Hendry would have already pulled the trigger on that one.

[The Informer]

One thing i dont get about all of this is why are the cubs not giving Todd Walker a fair shot. This guy has done nothing but hit everywhere he has gone. Plus he adds stability to a righy favored line up since he hits left handed. The guy hasnt been terrible with the glove. He has actually been better defensively then expected. He may not hit as many home runs as Soriano but is a way better option defensivly then Soriano. Hes cheaper as well. I thought Jim Hendry said that he was reshaping the team to become better defensively. Trading for Soriano would weaken the infield defensively. I just think the cubs are better off with Walker. The fans love him, Hes Cheaper, He is a good Leader in the clubhouse and He is a better option then Soriano and arguably Vidro.

[Kyle]

I agree with you Informer Soriano is not a good player. If he was willing to shift to left field his value would increase tremendously. He has way too big an ego and sucks in the field. I still dont know why Washington wanted him and I rejoice every day that the yankees were able to trade him for A-Rod

[Jake]

I don't think there is any way in the world that Rich Hill and a minor leaguer gets Lugo and Huff on the Cubs, I also don't think there is much of a chance that Hilll and a minor leaguer gets just Lugo alone either. Only way this would even be possible I think is if that minor leaguer was Felix Pie then TB might bite, but I say might because TB is loaded with good young OFs. A couple like Delmon Young project even better than Felix Pie does in the majors. They already have Crawford, Baldelli, Gomes, Gathright, and Young so I dont think the Rays have much use for a Felix Pie. I think it takes Hill, a major leaguer and possibly another good pitching prospect Guzman, Marshall to get Lugo and even more to get both Lugo and Huff. In short I'm saying it would take more than the Cubs are willing to give up to get Lugo which is why you havent seen them make a trade for him. As for Soriano, while he would be pretty good as either a 2 or 5 hitter HR's, RBIs and speed wise, this guy is a disaster in the field and with plate discipline. Not to mention he makes a ton. I know Rumor had mentioned the Nats would have to kick in some money to make the deal work and I dont see that happening either. I think there is basically no chance of Soriano ending up with the Cubs. I don't want Vidro either. Between Vidro, and Wood the Cubs could easily have the two most overpaid players in the game based on how much they actually play. Right now the Cubs are stuck in mediocrity. Not really alot out there to trade for, not really alot left to improve the team. Oh yeah but dont worry the bleacher expansion project is on time so the greedy Trib Co can make even more money this year while putting a 3rd or 4th place team out there and signing the jacque jones of the world. Why again am I a Cubs fan?

[Kyle]

Over the past three years here are Vidro's Walker's and Soriano's numbers

Todd Walker:
128 G .286 BA 67 R 13 HR 58 RBI 1 SB

Jose Vidro:
114 G .296 BA 55 R 12 HR 52 RBI 2 SB

Alfonso Soriano:
152 G .280 BA 98 R 31 HR 98 RBI 28 SB

Soriano is 29, Vidro is 30 and Walker is 32.

If the Cubs are looking for more hitting Soriano will be good. You can count on him for a 20-20 season with an average around .280 each year. But if Hendry actually wants to concentrate on patient hitters who are good fielders both Vidro and Walker are better options.

If I was Hendry I would try to get Lugo for some combination of Hill and other minor leaguers and move cedeno to 2b. Lugo I feel is more valuable then any of the second baseman

[Braves "fan"]

Rich Hill and another minor leaguer for Julio Lugo and Aubrey Huff is just plain silly. Not too long ago the Rays turned down a deal that would have netted them Andy Marte (considered by some to be THE top minor leaguer in ANY system) for Julio Lugo and they seem to value Aubrey Huff just as highly. It appears as though they understand they won't be winning in 2006 and prefer to simply hold off on promoting either Delmon Young or BJ Upton in order to stall their arbitration clocks. If the Cubs wanted Huff and/or Lugo, they'd have to pony up at least two top prospects FOR EACH. This is why TB will never get better, because they can't get deals done to improve their franchise. They desperately need pitching and have a surplus of hitters, but they can't connect the dots. It's sad, really.

[Braves "fan"]

Jake,

Thank you for finally letting me see that there are Cubs fans out there that not only don't idolize their marginal prospects and players, but also challenge their ownership and management on fielding mediocre teams. I have often asked myself why the Cubs have so many fans in spite of their constant, often times epic or tragic, failure. They sellout their stadium regardless of how badly they're playing or how hopeless they may be. I just don't get it. Especially because my Braves have been great for so damn long and they can't sellout ever. This is something I will never understand.

[Kyle]

Do you think a trade like Rich Hill and Guzman could get you Lugo

[JMan]

Braves "Fan" -

Actually Friedman of the D-Rays denied that Marte was offered as he stated he would have definitely done that deal.

[RumorMonger]

Yeah I was going to say what Jman said. Plus, Friedman is not LaMar.

[Kyle]

Personally I like what I have seen from Freidman I think the deal with LA was very good. Sure Tiffany and Jackson are high risk guys and they may both end up sucking but Tampa Bay has to take risks. They need to get pitching soon. Drafting it may not help because by the time the guys are ready Tampa will have already lost there offense. I also like that the new ownership group realizes that it is more then the players that matter they have taken time to make small steps to make going to a devil rays game more enjoyable(free parking, ray petting tank) He shouldnt sell cheap. By the trade deadline some team will need a ss or a RF/3b/1b guy then they can trade Huff or Lugo. Both those guys are good players and should net a good prospect in return

[Jman]

I don't see the Cubs making any noise on the Lugo front until they figure out what is going on with Walker, unless the D-Rays are willing to take him on. But that doesn't seem likely since he wouldn't have much of a spot on their roster.
But I think Lugo would be the best option since he can play 2B and SS. He can start at 2B and if Cedeno completely bombs we have a very able replacement.

[REM]

All I had to do was read the first post to remind me how clueless cub "fans" are. Rich Hill and a prospect for Lugo. Wow, complete stupidity.

[REM]

Ok, Hill and a prospect for Lugo is laughable in its self, now I noticed the mentally challenged poster also wished to include Huff. Wow, just simply Wow.

[Kyle]

Thanks for the compliment REM. I would like to clear up that I am not a cubs fan. Secondly I know nothing of the cubs farm system all I know is that TB is looking to move Huff and Lugo and they are looking for pitching in return. Do you think a trade of maybe Hill and another top pitcher for Lugo would work?

[RumorMonger]

Wow that's quite a contrast - Kyle has class and is above taking cheap shots at posters, while REM is a scumbag who takes shots at everyone.

[Kyle]

What do you think it would take to get Lugo from the Rays? (General question I want people opinions) I was looking at the trade they made with LA and that looked completely reasonable, good for both sides. I think Freidmann will do a lot better trading than LaMar did although I feel some teams may shy away because of Lamar's past. I feel like one high level near league ready pitcher and a young project pitcher could get it done

[REM]

As you see everything Rumor posts is indeed a rumor. I am not a scumbag nor do I take cheap shots. However, your post about Hill and a prospect for Lugo/Huff is identical to what most cub "fans" believe. Hill is an overrated prospect and the cubs do not have what it takes to lure Huff and Lugo.

I apologize for generalizing you with the scum of the baseball earth, cub "fans"

[RumorMonger]

Bring in on REM, let's take it outside

[Kyle]

Haha its ok REM I dont really care its just a baseball blog. I dont know much about the Cub's farm system beyond what I can read at BaseballAmerica.com and what I hear on this sight. I think the cubs should do something up the middle because I feel a middle infield of Walker and Cedeno may not cut it. Lugo is a above average shortstop who is just starting to get the attention he deserves he doesnt really do anything great but he does a lot of things well. Lugo would bring speed and sure hands to the infield. He also plays ss and 2b allowing Cedeno to develop into whatever fits him.

[No head cases, please.]

I would seiorusly like Hendry to resurrect talks for Aubrey Huff and Julio Lugo. Even if the price is a little high, it solves so darned many problems for the Cubs.

[Braves "fan"]

Thanks for pointing out that apparently Marte was not offered to the Devil Rays for Lugo. I truly hope that TB gets things going on the right track soon. I believe it was Rumor who has said that the Rays would prefer to trade off their expendable parts on their own, instead of in packages. That said, the Cubs may be able to get Lugo OR Huff for a couple of MLB ready pitching prospects.

[Erik]

Renteria, in my estimation, is a far inferior player to Julio Lugo at this point.

Finally, the Braves make a mistake. Bout bloody time.

[RumorMonger]

They did. At some point I am going to make some predictions for the '06 season. And I will not have the Braves winning the division. I don't care if it makes a fool of me eventually.

[Erik]

And while we're on the topic of the Braves...

Does anyone but me feel Francoeur's mid-season inclusion on the cover of SI with the words "The Natural" is a gargantuan stretch? He's not even the best young player in the division.

There's another over-hyped player starting for the Braves who is due for a major regression. Not good.

[RumorMonger]

Yeah, but even with a decent regression from him he'll be an improvement over what they got from RF in 2005.

[Erik]

Brian Jordan? Raul Mondesi?

*pathetic*

I think that Vidro goes to the Mets in that 3-way with Boston and Montreal. Ant talk of being satisfied with internal options is baloney, becasue the Mets have the worst farm system in baseball. There ARE NO internal options @ 2nd base for the Mets, and Minaya NEEDS to win NOW, while Pedro Martinez is still healthy/functioning.

[Erik]

"There ARE NO internal options @ 2nd base for the Mets"

Stop talking nonsense.

Soriano stinks. Vidro is a walking time-bomb. Anderson Hernandez is Orlando Hudson with a better arm.

[RumorMonger]

Just testing to see if I can post as RumorMonger. Please ignore

[Braves "fan"]

Go ahead Rumor, pick against Atlanta to win the NL East; you won't be the first nor the last to be made a fool of by the continued success of the Braves.

As for Rentaria being a mistake, I guess we'll just have to wait and see, now won't we? Lugo has one good year and suddenly people think he's the next Michael Young or some such nonsense. Rentaria has one off year and people discredit all he's done. The Braves have a way of getting more out of their players than any other team in the bigs. Rentaria wouldn't be the first guy to find himself again there.

That said, we've made plenty of mistakes during this 4-year run. Our rental of JD Drew was too expensive, for instance. Usually other brilliant moves cover up the errors, but they're still errors. But we keep winning, it just keeps happening. We're like the anti-Cubs.

As for Francouer, I've never been on his bandwagon. The guy is like Vlad Guerrero Lite and that's just not my cup of tea. Still, he'll do just enough to get more people in the park and add another banner to our absurd run.

In all honesty, I could see the Mets working out and winning the East, but even in that worst case scenario, I think we make the Wildcard. We've got a good team people; it's not like the difference between Furcal and Rentaria is going to keep us out of the playoffs.

[Tim]

I like the Cubs but i dont think they have a shot at getting soriano

[RumorMonger]

In Keppinger and Hernandez, the Mets already have two options better than Soriano or Vidro.

Whoever wants to post as me, please don't.

[junbun]

i dont see why rich hill & another prospect for lugo is so absurd... but ok. as far as i'm hearing, hill is very highly thought of in most baseball circles.. he didn't "come out of nowhere" by the way.. he's only had 3 professional seasons so far.. and he was always a good prospect just needed to refine his control.

[Frank Robinson]

Someone take Soriano from us!!! PLEEEEASE!!!!
I'd be more than happy with mid level SP prospects. That's better pitching than we have right now. Seriously. Anything. Please.
Let Church, Watson, and Catro play. What do you we have to lose??? Nats ain't going anywhere this year. Might as well play t youngsters who might play hard to get rich with another team later on. I hate you Jim Bowden. The Castilla for Lawrence trade was genius. The picking up of Bernie Castro was very good. But the rest? The rest is the type of thing you do when you're drunk and sniffing paint thinner. Goodnes!

[Erik]

"i dont see why rich hill & another prospect for lugo is so absurd"

Because when an organization rips one team off (kazmir for zambrano) they seem to think they can get David Wright and Jose Reyes for Aubrey Huff.

In other words, your first born for their bastard children.

[Kyle]

"i dont see why rich hill & another prospect for lugo is so absurd"

Because when an organization rips one team off (kazmir for zambrano) they seem to think they can get David Wright and Jose Reyes for Aubrey Huff.

In other words, your first born for their bastard children

You should follow baseball closer that was Chuck LaMar the last GM the current GM is Freidmann who through his one trade so far has showed that he will accept a reasonable trade

[Ryan]

Kind of a moot discussion, since Hendry, while probably going through the motions of attempting to acquire another star (i.e. calling to ask about availability, etc.), is not going to get Soriano, or Lugo, or Vidro. And honestly, I hope he doesn't. We don't need to give up any prospects to get a butcher with low OBP, a man who's falling apart at the seams, or a wife-beater who commits way too many errors.

Regardless of what other "fans" think of prospects like Hill, he has raised a lot of eyebrows over the past couple of months. I personally don't think he will be ready for the majors until he develops another pitch (most likely a change-up, which he has supposedly been working on this off-season), but a lot of teams seem to be interested in taking him off Hendry's hands. I wouldn't give him up for a player like Lugo straight-up (Tampa probably wouldn't make that trade, either, even though they are shopping him) if he could be used as part of a package to net a better player somewhere down the road.

Either way, Cubs have a surplus at second and are pretty much at their payroll's limit, so don't look for them to take on another $10+ million anytime soon...

[Braves "fan"]

I am in total agreement with you, Mr. FranK Robinson (that feels wrong, because the real one is so often wrong). The Nats should do something like what the Marlins did and hope for a bright future by the time a new park gets built.

[Erik]

"You should follow baseball closer that was Chuck LaMar the last GM the current GM is Freidmann who through his one trade so far has showed that he will accept a reasonable trade"

You should stop making assumptions. The GM may have changed, but their philosophy obviously hasn't. They still want your first born. Baez for Heilman and a prospect? Um, NO.

[RumorMonger]

It's a misconception that their philosophy has not changed. Why are the Rays expected to roll over and die and toss Lugo and Huff for to anyone for junk?

[Erik]

"Why are the Rays expected to roll over and die and toss Lugo and Huff for to anyone for junk?"

They aren't.

Frankly, and i'm going off on a tangent here, they will NEVER be able to compete in the AL. Why even bother? Even if they develop 7 or 8 stud prospects, what is the D-Rays window before FA takes all the best players away? Two years? So what if Delmon Young and BJ Upton are great if they just aren't as great. The Yankees will simply BUY better players. In fact, the Yankees will be able to buy the D-Rays best players once they become free agents. It's a fruitless, almost hopeless act.

[Ryan]

Erik: I disagree with you. The Rays have a lot of very talented young players. While their lack of fanbase and their ownership group make it difficult for them to have a competitive payroll, they keep on racking up other teams' good young prospects, in addition to drafting good young players. They have a lot of talented hitters and position players either on the team or on the rise (Young, Upton, Baldelli, Crawford, Cantu, just to name a couple), but what they lack is pitching. They do have Kazmir, who is a very bright spot, but other than him, they don't really have anyone in the rotation or bullpen worth getting really, REALLY excited over.

That, however, can change. What do you think they want in return for Lugo? Or for Huff, for that matter? Odds are that some team who is close at the deadline will deal for one of or both of those players, if they aren't dealt sooner. The Rays have a few years with their talented position players, and that's assuming that the Rays can't lock them up long-term early on. In that amount of time, it's not out of the question for the Rays to trade for some talented young arms or even develop their own.

So, while the Rays aren't going to scare anyone this year or next year, they can, within a few years time, become contenders. I'm not saying they will, but they definitely can.

[RumorMonger]

I also disagree with the tangent. The Rays have to be careful about their timing, but if they can develop 2-3 decent starters for the 2008 season they could easily be better than the Yankees. Often the best players are simply not on the market, as was the case this offseason.

[Erik]

Right. A Perfect Storm.

I disagree. There will always be players available. Delgado, Wagner, Ryan, Burnett. Weak, but still better than anything on the D-Rays.

It's difficult enough finding an A-Rod every 10 years. I'm willing to say Delmon Young and/or Upton will be busts. What then? Another 10 years of mediocrity for every two 80 win seasons?

[RumorMonger]

It's highly unlikely that Young and Upton are busts. They will be star players, and I think most teams would take Young even now compared to most of the available outfielders.

The hard part is developing a great cheap core, not adding complementary pieces. The Rays will be a contender before the decade is out, guaranteed.

[Erik]

I have more of a problem with the system. Revenue sharing is a joke. The Yankees can afford to eat four bad contracts while the bottom tier teams can't eat more than one. Until this chances, I see the D-Rays as a pointless entity.

Their best pitcher was acquired via a "gift" from Mets GM Jim Duqette. If they must rely on bad trades to remain competitive, I don't much see the point.

[RumorMonger]

The Rays need to acquire pitching, no doubt. But they are absolutely stacked with great position players: Cantu, Upton, Crawford, Gomes, Young. Young is the best prospect in the game.

They also have a closer in Orvella and ace in Kazmir. These guys will be coming into their own in '08. Add in the bounty for Lugo, Huff, and Gathright and you have a hell of a core to work with.

[Erik]

I would like nothing more than to see the Yankees crushed by a 30M team. especially if Kazmir is part of it. Not my fault that Mets brass were run by monkees. *rolls eyes*

[Dan]

Walker is a far better choice than Soriano for reasons others have mentioned. If the Cubs wanted to upgrade from Walker, why didn't Hendry get the Marlins to include Castillo in the Pierre deal? Gold glove defense, contact hitting switch hitter with speed....and the Twins got him for two fringe pitching prospects. Hendry was already in discussions regarding Pierre, and I have to wonder if Castillo ever even came up in those discussions.

[cubs]

soriano would put us over the top

[steven]

i think the average fan has no clue just how good tampas offense was last year. they have a bright future if this new management will up payroll at least a little bit. soon people will realize the drays are more than a joke. however, it is going to be really hard for them to make the playoffs in the AL east as long as the yankees and red soxs keep spending. im probably one of the biggest predictors of the yankees falling apart sooner than later but im not sure they can fall that far as long as they are willing to have such a huge payroll.

[Erik]

Exactly, Steven. It's a matter of finance, not talent. The Yankees are better able to overcome injuries and bad contracts with their ludicrous salaries. The D-Rays have to be perfect and many things need to fall into place. For as good as Delmon Young and Upton MIGHT be (Upton is having severe trouble finding a position) A-Rod and Jeter are already there and, presumably, will be for many years.

[Kyle]

The D-Rays are working to become a Twins like franchise. No one has yet done well with fans in florida but they are doing the right things in making it cheaper and more affordable to go to games. In the second half of the season the devil rays were probably the second best team in the AL east. You are right that they will probably not be a factor this year. But all they need to do is capatilize on a down year for either the yanks or the sox. The devil rays cant expect to compete every year but if they compete lets say 2 out of every 5 years they will be a very good franchise. The devil rays right now can compete with the orioles I wouldnt at all be suprised if they were to finish fourth in the AL east.

Secondly Erik I dont think you understand revenue sharing. The system isnt unfair for the bad teams if anything it is unfair for teams like the yankees and red sox. The problem with teams such as the Royals and Devil Rays is they spend the money dumb. Revenue sharing greatly benefits small market teams. The twins use the money they recieve from revenue sharing to sign there home grown talent to long term deals. This is why I think the devil rays could be good pretty soon. If they are able to grab a couple high ceiling pitchers for there veteran players then grab a college arm or two in the upcoming draft they could have a competitive team soon these players will be under there control for a while and they can use the revenue sharing money to sign the occasional one to a long term deal

[Erik]

You know guys, those damn yankees bought that 2000 WS.
Without all that money, the Mets would have beaten them in 6. By the way Jeter has AIDS!

- Keith Hernandez 1985
"New York City will forever belong to the Mets." "The Yankees can go F*#% themselves."

[Kyle]

The Mets were lucky to make it to thw WS in 2000

[steven]

Erik,
Personally I find both New York teams to be a disgrace to major league baseball! Shea & Yankee Stadium are both horrendous ballparks with some of the most dumbest fanbases to ever existed. I went their this past summer and was disgusted by how many morons actually go to Yankee & Shea Stadium to watch such medicre teams compete for nothing.
I think its safe to say:
NY Baseball sucks!

[Erik]

"The Mets were lucky to make it to thw WS in 2000"

No Kyle, luck didn't have anything to do with being the most balanced team in National League! Also "thw" is spelled
"the". Learn how to spell.

[Erik]

"Posted by: steven | February 10, 2006 at 11:54 AM"

All I have to say is its much more pleasant to be a Mets fan than to be a fan of your losers (the cubs)!
Get a life a filthy cubs fan!
you iknow nothing about baseball!

[RumorMonger]

Please stop.

[Kyle]

"most dumbest fanbases "

That is very far from good english. By the way how many more times have new york teams made the playoffs then chicago teams. Yankee stadium is a temple to baseball it is one of the nicest stadiums there is. Shea is alright its average. Dont just envy the yankees because they are successful

[cubsfan06]

I would take soriano over Walker only for one reason, his hitting. Soriano is ONLY 29. The numbers he posted with the Yanks can be repeated. I say get Soriano and trade Walker. Soriano isnt a good fielder, but the Cubs really need one good bat in the lineup. I would take the risk on Sorianos fielding skills. However, i dont know who the Nats really want, and thats going to be up to the management. My guess is they want a pitcher with pitching exp but is young like Jerome Williams. But i dont see Soriano getting traded till probably the midseason. i think the Nats want to see how it goes from spring training, and the 1st half of the season before they trade off anyone.

[Kyle]

Does Erik ever post anything that isnt angry, argumentative, or mildly insulting

[cubsfan06]

Erik (or imposter?), you need to keep your filthy mouth shut. What you said was extremely immature. Filthy, you know what? Comparing Cubs fans to New York Mets fan, we have a better class act than your fans will ever have. Losers? lmao, you guys had a history of losing seasons like the cubs. You guys only have 2 WS liek us. So i wouldnt be talking if i were you.

[RumorMonger]

Again, stop with the insults and team bashing. It's childish and you are wasting my time.

[cubsfan06]

Honestly Erik, i know more about Baseball than most fans in Chicago, St.Louis, idc. And i know many cubs fans who have a very good knowledge of baseball.

[cubsfan06]

Sorry rumor, but i found Erik's comment really childish, and he needs to watch what he says. filthy mouth? I find that very offensive. Thats like spitting on a person with disrespect.

[steven]

the main criticism of revenue sharing for the smaller teams is that some owners pocket the money to make their franchise to make it profitable instead of investing it in the team to make it better. personally i think its not much of an argument. im a red soxs fan and ill tell you straight up that there is nothing unfair about revenue sharing. only yankee fans try and make that argument cause they feel they are entitled to have a huge advantage over every team for some reason.

[Kyle]

I dont think we are entitled to an advantage I just feel if the Yankees because of a better market, performance, and advertising are able to generate way more revenue than lets say the Kansas City Royals, I dont really understand why we should have to supplement there finances. But as a whole I dont mind revenue sharing as it does what it was supposed to in trying to create parity

[Vince]

CubsFan06. I think it is hard to say you know more about baseball than almost everyone in Chicago, St. Louis, etc when you say you would take Soriano over Walker because of his hitting

OPS+ 2004 2005
Soriano 98 110
Walker 105 115

Walker is no Gold Glove by any means, but Soriano is just horrible on defense.

So explain again, why the Cubs should get Soriano at $10 million, compared to walker at $2.5 million?

[Erik]

STOP IMITATING ME!

[Erik]

RumorMonger,

I really appreciate your efforts on this site, but with all the idiots (no, Kyle, you are not an idiot, the person arguing with you wasn't me) I really can't stand it. Someone is impersonating me, you and others as well. It's frankly very oft-putting. I've decided to just read this site and avoid posting altogether.

Thanks
Erik

[cubsfan06]

Why not get Soraino becaue hes considered the 2nd baseman in the game! Take a look at his career numbers for God sakes. My God, ok, Soriano has been in a lil slump this past season, but man, hes only 29 and he has a long way to go. You guys want more facts, hre a fact that you guy should know. 2003- 91 RBIs as a lead off hitter. 91 RBIs! as a lead off hitter. Thats insane, at the number 1 spot? Ok, like i said before, i would take the risk on Sorianos defence. 10 million for a guy who puts up the numbers he did in 03?! Man, 10 mill isnt bad at all compare to other players that I can name of my back as the most overpaid. Hes a proven all star for crying out loud! Do you know how good he can be in Wrigely Field? And o yea, he has better speed than Walker too (30 SB). And we need a NUMBER 5 HITTER (EVEN THOUGH HE never hit As NUMBER 5 HITTER, BUT i THINK NUMBER 4 FOR HIM IS THE RIGHT SPOT, AND raMIREZ SHOULD GO BACK TO AS A NUMBER 5 HITTER LIKE HE DID IN 04). He cant hit any where from number 3-6 in the lineup. We need Soriano's bat. This cubs offence still seems questionable because the mininum amount of power, and the player we signed is questionalbe-JacQue Jones. Nobody knows if this guy can post up solid numbers again. If this is not convinng to yOu guys, try sending letters to anaylsts like Peter Gammons. Im 100 percent sure any smart analyst would agree to the facts that I put up.

[RumorMonger]

No one considers Soriano the best second baseman in the game.

Imn sorry, i meant to say the 2nd best 2nd baseman.

[RumorMonger]

According to WARP, he was the 19th best 2B in baseball in 2005:

http://www.rotoauthority.com/2005/11/best_of_2005_se.html

I know chase utley and cantu did betetr than Soriano, but name somebody else please. Ill jus let soriano game to the talking the ull know who Soriano really is.

Well, overall his fielding kills his rankings, buyt hitting wise, Soriano is good as anybody out there.

[RumorMonger]

Roberts, Utley, Kent, and Giles all outhit Soriano in 2005.

yea in 05. You are going to determine Sorianos value over 1 year? And while hes only 29. Thats jus completely unjust.

[RumorMonger]

He was a worse hitter than Loretta, Kent, and Durham in '04. What's more unjust is evaluating players but ignoring their defense.

Soriano did a betetr job than Loretta and Durham in hitting in 04 Rumor.

And yes, I know Soriano's defense is bad, but hit hitting speaks for itself. Sometimes you gotta take a risk for acquiring a player.

[Vince]

CubsFan,

Nobody that knows anything about baseball would consider Soriano the 2nd or 3rd best second baseman in baseball, especially when you consider his $10 million contract.

You have shown no proof as to why Soriano would help the Cubs. The last thing they need is another all-or-nothing hitter. We have seen how well (or bad) these type of players have worked the last few years. Soriano is merely a productive of Arlington and you have provided nothing to prove otherwise. Sosa put up decent numbers in 2003, should they bring him back?

When you consider how valuable a player is, unless he is a DH, it is absurd to disregard his defense

The cubs would be better served to use that $7.5 million difference between Walker and Soriano and upgrade in other areas

More stolen bases would be nice, but even though the Cubs struggle with that, their problem is getting people on base, more than have those people steal. Stolen bases are extremely overrated (Boy am I going to get some heated posts from Sox fans now), unless you are extremely successful at them

how can you even deny Soriano's sucess in the Yanks, and deny him being one of the top 2ndbaseman. Tell me, since when has Walker been an all star!!!!! Since when Walker pur up the strong number like Soriano. 10 mill dollars? If that all what Soriano is making, ill take him. you know why, there r overateed and overpaid players r making more than Soriano.

No Vince, the problem with the cubs was DRIVING IN THOSE RUNNERS with 1 out and 2 outs. Thats their real problem. Getting on base is not the problem, its their inability to drive them in. aND THATS WHY WE NEED SORIANO. Bsides ARam and Dlee, we didnt have a hitter who can hit well with 1 or 2 outs (i.e. Burnitz). WE LEFT MANY RUNNERS ON BASE LAST YEAR, AND THAT JUS PISSES ME OFF. THIS IS WHY IM STRESSING ON GETTING SORIANO: A GUY WHO HAS PROVEN TO DRIVE IN RUNS WHEN NEEDED.

I believe out stats in 05 with 2 out with runenrs on was .238. Im jus guessing, but its aroudn there.

[Vince]

Don't take this personal, it is just some advice.

When you give a statistic, don't give it and say you are just guessing thats what it is. It makes you look stupid and uninformed

[Vince]

OK,

Explain some things here then

"Getting on base is not the problem"

2005
Cubs ranked 11th in the NATIONAL LEAGUE with an OBP of .324

Yet they ranked 2nd or 3rd in the NL in HR, Hits, and SLG % with .440

Although I agree they did not do a good job with runners in scoring position, this can be partly explained by the fact Derrek Lee and Ramirez rarely were up to bat with men in scoring position compared to the rest of the order.

So explain how getting on base was not the problem, but hitting guys in was. It seems to me when a team ranks 11th in the NL in OBP but top 3 in 3 major hitting categories, their main problem is getting on base.

Soriano - Unlike you with Soriano, I have never claimed Walker to be some great player. I am simply showing that the Cubs would be downgrading if they get Soriano. Lets take a look at the argument.

I have already shown Walker has had a better OPS+ the last two years.

He is better defensively, which seems like we agree on that.

Then if you factor in Soriano's $10 million contract, AND what you obviously seem to be forgetting about, Washington isn't just going to hand the Cubs Soriano, the Cubs are also going to have to give up players and prospects to get him, hurting them even more.

RBI's are simply a product of opportunities. Just ask DLee. Every year Soriano has played, he has been on great offensive teams, playing in hitter's parks. Hence, his numbers (especially his power numbers) are extremely inflated.

And the arguement that there are worse contracts than Soriano's makes no sense. Because other teams give bad contracts, the Cubs should take one on to?

If we are going to contine this debate, please provide some sort of data that will back up your claims, rather than stats "you are just guessing" at.

Alright then, here the stats for runners on scoring postions-.258 .258?!!! That freekin stinks We r ranked 10th in NL. My God, do you expect the Cubs to go to the playoffs that way. Clutch hitting is needed to go to the playoffs, this is why im arguing in gettin Soriano. There, happy stat boy.

But Vince, if you watch the cubs all season long, you have to agree Cubs would leave many runners on alot of time when they have an opportunity to cash in some runs.

Yes becasue we have no choice. Years to come Vince, players will demand more and more. And Ill bet you one day one player is going to make mroe than Arod. Have you seen all the contract signings this year. Well guess what, players next year r going to want to make more. Thats how it goes man, it happened in 2000, it hapened this year. Now, its gonna be a demand for $$$.

[Vince]

First, I would kind of like people to put their name on their post, so I have some idea who is talking to me.

Second, I have no idea what you are talking about with regards to money and contracts. I have no idea what question you are answering yes to. What is it that we have no choice with?

And finally, You can call me stat boy all you want. I love stats. Why? Because they help provide a solid arguement, like I believe I have.

Here is another stat. Sorry but looks like you are wrong again

I agree that the Cubs were horrible with runners in scoring position. If Lee and Ramirez had more opportunities with RISP, the team avg would be higher. Plus here is a gem for you:

2005 - Soriano's RISP avg was .235.

Looks to me like that would make the Cubs worse in that category. So please tell me I am wrong again.

[Vince]

And I meant to add this thought:

Right now the Cubs are not a playoff team

With the addition of Soriano, they still wouldn't be a playoff team

[Vince]

And don't forget to factor in Soriano's attitude. The fact that he refuses to move to the outfield to try and help his team get better should speak volumes towards the kind of player he is. Do you really want another one of those players in the Cub locker room?

Wasn't Hendry trying to get rid of players like that?

Because other teams give bad contracts, the Cubs should take one on to?
Sorry, i had it in myhead, but i forgot to state it in my last post.

You ll love this. RISP, 2 Outs, Last 3 years
Soriano - .279 BA, .354 OBP, .500 SLG, .854 OPS. Need I say more, thats clutch! And you know what, thats kind of player I want on the cubs. A person who steps up his game in tough situations. 2 out .79? Not many players r able to do that.

sry Vince, that was me Cubsfan06.

[Vince]

Walker 04-05 RISP avg - .287

Still don't see where Soriano is better. So even though I have proven you wrong in every instance, it looks like we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one

Since it looks like Soriano is the wrong move, I would bet he will be a Cub in the near future unfortunately. Here's to him having a career year if that is the case.

[cubsfan06]

Yes, but is it with 2 outs.

[RumorMonger]

All of these RISP stats being thrown around probably lack the sample size needed to mean anything...

[Michael]

No need to worry about Soriano coming to the cubbies. ( Thank God!! )

http://fantasysports.yahoo.com/analysis/news?slug=rotowire-lfonsoorianoubsighto&prov=rotowire&type=lgns&league=mlb