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Red Sox To Make Record Offer To Matsuzaka

The Red Sox plan on making a record offer to Daisuke Matsuzaka, at least for a player who's never pitched in the Majors. 

Based on this info from Gordon Edes, I wonder if it's a six-year, $100MM offer.  It's tough to picture the Red Sox going far beyond that dollar amount, though Scott Boras might want that amount for five seasons.  Or perhaps he's angling for $60MM over three seasons instead.  We should have an idea soon.  Baseball Prospectus's Nate Silver has a system that says Matsuzaka is worth roughly $80MM over six seasons.

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Betting on Boston stopping at 5 years 12 a year.

I think it'll be alot bigger than that, if they offer it. Somewhere around 6/100.

NY Post is reporting the Sox may have offered ("dangled") Coco Crisp to the Braves for Mike Gonzalez (who would be acquired for LaRoche) but the Braves would likely want more.

The Yankees also want Gonzalez. The Braves like Proctor and Melky Cabrera, but the Yankees likely won't give up both.

Oh, I should be on topic. The "record" offer could be anything above $32M for 4 years, right (Contreras got the highest for a player yet to play in America, right?).

Every single thing that is happening here you can view from either side. Either the Red Sox really want him and obviously are going to start really low, OR they only wanted to keep him from the Yankees, were going to lowball him, and are trying to placate their fans.

All they have to say is something with strong wording like "we offered more money than ANY foreign player has EVER been offered. EVER. In the HISTORY of the WORLD. And evil Boras still wouldn't take it. It's not our fault."

And 3/4 of their fans will believe that they made a good offer, and they won't blame the Sox.

My guess - yeah, about 5 or 6 years at $12M per year. That's still over $20M per year.

Boston is not stupid. They have done the math, hundreds of times, I bet. They have an exact number that they are willing to pay. Luchino has absolutely no problem telling Boras "this is it, take it or go home". I have a hard time believing it will be much more than $20M per year if the contract is 4 years or longer, which doesn't bode well for these negotiations. (That would be ~$30M over 4, $50M over 5, $70M over 6).

Ok, I think the offer will be $70M for 6 years.

I'm fairly certain that the "record offer" to which they're referring simply means that Daisuke will be offered more than any foreign player entering the big leagues for the first time has gotten before him, i.e., Matsui. In that respect, even $11-12m per would be sufficient to establish a record offer.

Sox fans are completely insane. If they don't sign Matsuzaka, at least half will be calling for Theo's head on a platter. Whatever spin the FO tries to put on the negotiations won't matter. He'll sign, and the Sox will probably pay more than they want to.

The whole situation is screwed up. I hate Scott Boras and I am disgusted by the ridiculous amount of money being paid this offseason. I wish the Red Sox would just tell Boras to stick it up his ass, tell Matsuzaka to have fun in Japan, and go after something more reasonable.

No one with half a brain is going to call for Theo's head. They have been running a smear campaign on Boras so that if he continues to negotiate in bad faith the public will convict him. If MLB had not decided to all of a sudden stop Seibu from kicking some money back there would have already been a deal. Boras cannot get over that. The Sox, due to the size of their bid, can inly reasonably offer so much. It will still get done but if it is anywhere near 6 years 100 mil I will eat my hat. 4 or 5 years with incentives and possibly the 5th year vesting or something. Money at most 12 a year and I am not sure they will go that high. The Sox do not give anyone a real contract that is over 4 years. I am wondering if they will actually even give him a free agent clause if the deal is shorter.

Unfortunately most Red Sox fans don't have half a brain.

Scott Boras pretty much has helped to taint baseball in the sense that he has made it all about the money. Yes baseball is a business and playing baseball is the players job but when it comes down to the fact that small market teams cant afford their home grown talent because that players agent is a money grubbing ass, well theres just something wrong with that. Sometimes I really wonder whether if its juss Boras making all the decisions about where his player goes. In the case of Matsuzaka, I'm pretty sure that Boras has total control of that entire situation and Matsuzaka barely has a role in his own destination for the 2007. I really wonder if Matsuzaka even knows about the first initial offer by the Sox, considering it would be substaintionally more than he would be making in Japan. So heres to you Scott Boras...you suck!

Boras is doing nothing wrong. He's got his, and his clients' interests in mind. The blame falls squarely on the shoulders of the owners, who give into Boras again and again.

He's just great at his job. There's nothing wrong with that. And part of his job, in order to get the most money for himself, is to convince the player to go for more money as well.

So let me get this straight...if they give him 6/100, including the 51 mill post they're paying an average of 25 million a year. For a guy who's never pitched in the big leagues. Genius.

I hope after he signs that huge contract, he goes on to give a speech about how he is here to win a World Series.

That's a lot of money for a player who hasn't proved himself in the big leagues. But, apparently people think he's worth it. Rookie of the Year and/or Cy Young?

he get around 14 mil a year for 4 and zito will get 15-16 for 6

"Unfortunately most Red Sox fans don't have half a brain."


Haha. You're right. Boston hasn't been the best sports town forever. You idiot. Every player (except Manny) loved playing in Boston because the fans are so involved and know so much. If you want to talk about stupid fans, look at St. Louis. Fans cheer for everything. Anybody who knows baseball knows Boston fans are the most intelligent. It's clear to me that you're a Cards fan... go read a book or something you uneducated shit.

Talk baseball, matt8149, not trash. Act like an adult and back up your argument with facts instead of cheap high school comebacks. Boston fans are the most intelligent? Wasn't Boston known as "idiots" just two years ago?

Matt, I don't even feel that comment is worth a response, but I just want you to realize that you look extremely ignorant claiming that "Anybody who knows baseball knows Boston fans are the most intelligent." Any non-Boston fans agree with Matt here? just curious

Matt, that was well put.

bobo,

I agree that Boras is doing his job insofar as his client instructs him to maximize his cash value.

However, it's arguable that he's "doing his job" in entirety because there are whisperings that he might not be keeping his client fully informed of each offer and might not be seeking client input during crucial steps in the negotiations. A "let me take care of business" approach might be sound for Boras, but it violates the spirit of the ABA Model Rules of conduct that require an attorney (or attorney acting as a sports agent) to act in the client's "best interests."

"Best interests" are not limited to financial interest, but also reflect quality of life considerations and the client's professional goals, among other things. I agree that Boras is a prodigy at squeezing money out of owners, but I question whether he honors his duty of maintaining consistent client contact and seeking input before he employs his tactics.

Boras lives on the brink between representing the client's INTERESTS, and representing what HE PERCEIVES to be valuable interests. I think he occasionally crosses the bounds of client interest to pursue his own agenda, as is evidenced by his attempt to use the Matsuzaka negotiations as a crusade against the posting system.

It's true that Matsuzaka could drop Boras at any time, or instruct him to cut a deal at all costs, but I question whether Boras is accurately representing the situation to him.

Wow, DunkinDonuts, are you gonna get that comment published? Seems like enough to put into paperback and make a buck or two.

Here's the worst part for Boston Fans. This years tickets prices will jump Dramactically. Fenway Park only has 38,805 seats(Just for Comparison, Yankee Stadium has 57,545)
...Ouch....

stormstarter,

I'd rather get out my opinion and fuel discussion in one coherent sitting than to rely on chatroom-style one-liners:

Fanboy 1: the sox owners should just sign Matsuka lolz hes the best pitcher out there pay him

Fanboy 2: borass is just greedy the guy wants to pitch let him pitch

Fanboy 1: omg ur such an idiot

That style doesn't really do anything for me, and I don't think you can actually add anything to the discussion in one line, because then you wouldn't be able to support your argument. I wish more people would offer some insight with their comments.

"Anybody who knows baseball knows Boston fans are the most intelligent."

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest about which team's fans are the best/most intelligent (I'm a Yankee fan so believe me when I say I know what pompous, arrogant, and obnoxious fans are like). But this comment is fairly indicative of the majority of Red Sox fans, in my opinion. Ironic, isn't it?


Re: Boras - I think any player who chooses Boras as his agent absoultely knows what he's getting into. Matsuzaka may be an exceptional case, given the language barrier and cultural differences. But I agree with your points, DunkinDonuts - well put.

"Anybody who knows baseball knows Boston fans are the most intelligent."

Didn't Joe Morgan once say this, or was it Steve Philips?

That's fine Dunkin, but I think you're doing a lot of speculating on Boras and Matsuzaka, when you really aren't in a position to do so. You are assuming Boras is "pursuing his own agenda," etc., but you have no evidence to suggest that he isn't acting in D-Mat's interests. You're basically just rambling about ethics without any facts.

If I was a GM, I'd make a no-Boras policy when handling players. You switched agents and took Boras? Trade.

As for assessing an entire city's fan base, such accusations appear to be just hasty generalizations that are essentially impossible to support. (Although I myself have made such generalizations out of anger...for that, I feel dumb.) Each city's fan culture is unique: a trip to Fenway is an unforgettable experience, as is the case with a game at Wrigley, or Yankee Stadium, or any other ballpark. We all want are teams to be successful and win -- heck, that's why we are here chatting! But the game cannot go on without the other teams. So, for instance, the Red Sox need the other teams, otherwise, they will eventually cease to exist. That is, cheer on your team, love them all you can, but realize in the end, that those other fans in other cities are essential for your team's existence.

I should add -- we need the other teams because we have to have others to play...I mean, it's a lot more fun playing with friends than playing with yourself (man, that doesn't sound too good!).

Since I took a shot at Red Sox fans, I'll go ahead and admit that I am a Sox fan as well. I'll even throw myself in the half that doesn't have a brain.

Actually, stormstarter, the musings about ethics have two bases in fact, which you may or may not have conveniently ignored:

1. Boras is not letting Matsuzaka sit in on negotiations, despite reports that Matsuzaka requested to sit in on meetings. If this is just a foundless rumor coming out of the Sox camp, then the fact remains that it is one perception of the negotiations that may lend insight into Boras' motives. This alone is enough to merit discussion of Boras' tactics.

2. Past evidence of Boras' tactics, particularly advising J.D. Drew to hold out of professional baseball for a larger contract, is indicative of solely financial concerns, and bolsters the argument that he may not be considering secondary "best interest" factors in securing contracts for his clients.

This alone is enough to spark discussion and make inferences about his motives and conduct, and if pressed, I'm sure I could dig up more than enough other kernels worthy of discussion.

The mere fact that Boras takes a sizeable commission is enough to inquire into whether there's a conflict of interest with his duty to represent his client's wishes. You could argue that Matsuzaka shares Boras' wishes, but then YOU'D be guilty of foundless speculation.

Until then, there's more than enough evidence to discuss whether Boras has another ax to grind.

Half of any group does not have a brain. At least most Red Sox fans can name the players on the team instead of just throwing a hat on while they are winning and loudmouthing about things that make no sense.

I think the smart fans realize this is a key negotiation while the halfbrainers will default to the media smear job. Either way Boras ends up looking worse than Boston unless shank writes a column afterwards trying to make people pay attention to him again.

It is all irrelevant anyway. They will get a deal done and all this talk will have been for nothing.

Since there is speculation that Boras isn't even telling Matsuzaka what has been offered, what's to keep the Sox from tellng the media what they've offered?

Boras could deny it but thats one way to get Matsuzaka involved, or at least give him an idea what is going on.

Hey Dunkin, I have to say ignore the criticism, I like reading the longer and more in-depth posts on this site. Sometimes a one-liner is all that is necessary but if you have an idea or a theory I'd like to read it, anyone who mocks you for it can just skip it and not read it if it doesn't interest them.

I also have to say that I agree with you on Boras, it bothers me that agents like him (and the players and teams are guilty as well) are making things increasingly more about the money. I am not a fan of Scott Boras, I am not a fan of the MLBPA, I am not a fan of $20MM a year contracts. Nobody needs that much money, the people who ultimately end up paying for it are the fans and the small market teams that can't afford to over pay for players. I am a Cubs fan and I do have to admit that I gotten into arguments and my stance is that the Cubs need to shell out the money, we're the third biggest market in baseball (at least) and there's no excuse for letting Rafael Furcal go for example. Still, I am more intrigued by the tactics of teams that can find creative ways to build a winner without having to have the $120MM payroll.

Dunkin, with your clear intellectual brilliance you should probably consider utilizing it somewhere useful, not wasting it on a sports blog. People come here to talk baseball, and you turn it into a novel, displaying your vast knowledge. It's a shame that you waste your time here.

I was just giving you a hard time with the first comment anyway...you've proven your point, so let's just drop it.

I think that what we can glean from this whole process is that Scott Boras is a pretty smart guy. He has been able to get the Red Sox to make a second offer to Matsuzaka without even giving the Sox a counterproposal, something that is seldom done. In the end, I think this was all about Boras holding out for every last possible dollar, which is what he always does. The Red Sox fell into his trap once again.

I too am worried about the percieved lack of Matsuzaka's involvement in the proceedings. Boras, however, has made it clear that the final decision about where to play next year rests with his client. With all the backlash Dice-K would face in Japan, I think it is fairly obvious what he will choose to do.

I think Matsuzaka will be on that private jet to Boston sometime today or tomorrow, but at a cost higher than the Red Sox wanted to pay. In the end, Boras is going to get what he wants.

Dunkin's comments are among the best I've ever read on this site.

Baseball is getting really popular again, therefore the pressure to win has increased. Teams will do what it takes to get a player that wins, even if that means overpaying him. To judge a player's salary: start out with how much his worth + how much a team are willing to pay that salary.

"but I question whether Boras is accurately representing the situation to him." Money is a universal language, Dunkin. I think D-Mat is well aware of how much he's worth and should be paid. I think someone probably explained to him how Boras works - probably why he chose Boras.

"Dunkin, with your clear intellectual brilliance you should probably consider utilizing it somewhere useful, not wasting it on a sports blog." How do you know he's not? He could be taking a break from curing cancer to tell us his thoughts on baseball. You should feel priviledged.

Maybe he is...I'm just giving him a hard time for taking everything so seriously, guys. I don't have a big problem with him...I just think it's funny how he makes this signing sound so important. Lighten up.

"He could be taking a break from curing cancer..." Beeniez, is that sarcasm? It's difficult to tell on the internet.

I understand what you're saying about overpaying for people, and as I said I have argued that the Cubs should have been doing that for the past few years (at least) but paying $51million to negotiate with someone and then an additional $100-140 million to sign them just seems ridiculous when no one knows what he'll do in America. I want to see Matsuzaka pitch, I want to see him succeed, but like I said if I were the Red Sox I woulda said have fun pitching in Japan and just left it at that.

"Beeniez, is that sarcasm? It's difficult to tell on the internet." Yes. Just trying to show that he doesn't spend his entire day blogging on this site.

Well, I'm sure if the Cubs had 51 million and another 100-140 million to spend on D-Mat, they would. But, Boston wanted him more than other teams and spent their money accordingly. The price for a baseball player is ridiculous - although they might go down again next year. Similar to the 2001 offseason with 8-10 year long contracts for 150 million plus.

"but like I said if I were the Red Sox I woulda said have fun pitching in Japan and just left it at that."

They got themselves into this on there own and another teeam would've gotten themselves into the same situation if they had won the bid.

Also, Boras would be crazy not to accept this offer ESPECIALLY since he said that Matsuzaka was worth 100Million

I'd be worried if were a Yankee fan right now. Steve Phillips doesn't think that the Red Sox will get a deal done with Matsuzaka which means that its signed, sealed, and delivered.

Its a must for the Red Sox to sign Matsuzaka. They can't just go waving around $51 million in front of Seibu and then fail to sign him. This is more than just Red Sox-Matsuzaka, this is MLB-Japan. Not signing him could damage the relationship between MLB and Japanese baseball because its a possiblity that they could think we're all talk and no commitment with such extravagent posting bids.

It won't damage our relationship with Japan. They now know what it'll take to come over to the MLB and how much they'll be offered. To think the Red Sox, or any team, were going to invest 150+ million for 6 years of a player who has yet to play in the MLB is terrible estimating on their part.

Fewer players will try to come here mid-contract though. Doesn't effect the MLB, but Japanese players will probably be more reluctant to sign long contracts during their prime years.

D-Mat just isn't in the position to command that much for so long. Boras wants you to think he is in a position to, but if he really did, he wouldn't be challenging the posting system. Besides being a good pitcher, he doesn't have much else to base a contract on. I think Boras just found out that players aren't getting paid because of their talent, but by how much demand he is in. He's probably mad because he didn't get a penny of that $51.1 million.

Why did talks break down? You'd think if the Red Sox spent 51 million dollars to talk to someone for 30 days, they'd talk for every one of them.

im getting pretty scared and upset by the whole situation. Being a lifelong sox fan, i feel as though we need Matsuzaka to anchor this team. Our young guys could also learn from his absolutly beastlyness. Right now i dont have much faith in our bullpen. I think theo needs to understand this is what we in boston call an INVESTMENT, theyll get the money back in no time at all. Making money while winning games? Sounds outstanding to me. Why not go for it? Meet Boras' needs and if he sucks, trade him or something (he wont suck). if he is the pride of Japan, he'll attract attention, we'll earn all the money back and more, we'll win games and the american league east, the yankees will be exremely sad, we'll be the new era of red sox. I think Boras is a fag tho and we definately need to stab this guy in the head, hes ruining the entire concept of the game, but this deal needs to get done. Iv been following this whole ordeal for so long now and i honestly cannot wait for the conclusion. Even if we dont sign him the last month or so has been absolutly great, better than any tv show, movie, book or anything. Hopefully it will have a happy ending for the sox, if not, the story wont end anytime soon, its gonna be a fucking shit show if Deisuke isnt signed. GET ON THE PLANE!!!

*prays to baseball gods*

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