Nats Demand Red Sox Pitchers For Chad Cordero

According to the Boston Herald, the Red Sox remain interested in Nationals closer Chad Cordero.  The info may be in contrast to an article in the Boston Globe yesterday, which indicated that the price was too high on "name" closers.

The Nats are fond of pitchers Craig Hansen and Michael Bowden, but favor 22 year-old righty Clay Buchholz.  Baseball Prospectus's Kevin Goldstein ranks Buchholz a touch above Bowden, mentioning "three plus pitches at times."  Buchholz finished 2006 in High Class A.  All three pitchers are quality arms with a lot of upside.

Cordero turns 25 in March.  He's got three full seasons under his belt.  He features fine command and has been unhittable throughout his career.  He was bitten by the longball in 2006, but it looks like a fluke to me.

Comments

[Mr_Punch]

As a sox fan, I wouldn't hesitate to trade any of the 3. Nor would I hesitate to trade any combo of 2 of them. If they want all 3? I hesitate, but I would consider it . Its not mortgaging the future when the player you get is only 25 years old and has been dominant at the major league level (granted it was the NL).

[Kyle]

As a Yankee fan I hope they trade some of those guys for Cordero. Cordero is young but Starting pitchers are way more valuable than closers, and with the fact that Wakefield and Schilling cant pitch forever I hope they get rid of their young talent.

Cordero is a good closer but he has never had to pitch for a team in the playoff race. He also gave up 22 homers over the last two seasons. He pitches in a hitters hell, 12 of those 22 came in RFK. He could be great and the Sox do need a close, as a Yanks fan I would love if they trade away their future for him.

[mike]

as a sox fan that would be a horrible trade. buchholz has the stuff to be a number 1 starter but will likely be a number 2 or 3, bowden is only 20 years old and has very good stuff. if the sox are going to trade either buccholz or bowden they better be getting a much better player than cordero. i have no problem seeing hansen go but having seen buchholz and bowden pitch many times trust me sox fans dont want to see them get traded.

[the Impossible Dream]

Come on Theo, don't trade off Buccholz or Bowden! Give them Hansen, maybe toss in Abe Alvarez too.

[was385]

As a fan of the Braves I would hate to see this. Cordero always makes things so much more interesting when we are down in the ninth. He seems to get in a lot of trouble against us. He still is dominant though and this AL-NL gap in talent is not nearly as big as you think, the only real difference is that the AL has a DH. He would dominate the AL too and as a fantasy owner of him, that gives me like double the save opp and I have Rauch, his next in line, so I am good

[mike]

Theo is not stupid enough to trade buccholz or bowden for a closer. anyone that thinks theo should trade either one of them for cordero doesnt know too much about buchholz or cordero. the nats gm loves willy mo i know that much so package them willy mo, hansen and maybe a decent prospect but nothing more than that. sox just need to find someone to close for the first half of 2007 or all of 2007 cause cox will be major league ready by 2008 if he can repeat his short stint in 2006 in the minors.

[was385]

why would the nats take Craig Hansen for Cordero? The whole point is to replenish a depleted farm system with young pitchers and taking a severe downgrade on a reliever and a guy that could at some point do what cordero is doing now is ridiculous. You don't give up a 25 year old great reliever for a slightly young guy who COULD be near that good

[mike]

cordero is a bit overrated in my opinion. he would be going from a decent hitting league to the toughest hitting division in baseball in the al east. not to mention his numbers take a big downfall when guys are on base and after 15 pitches an inning his numbers take a big hit too. he is not the kind of guy who has the stuff to be a dominate closer in the al east and from what ive heard people tell me he would probably have a tough time handling the pressure in boston. pitching with the nats and pitching for the red sox are 2 different worlds for a pitcher

[Kramerica Industries]

Trading Buccholz or Bowden would be a huge mistake! I would trade Hansen in a second though

[mike]

I wouldn't call cordero a great reliever yet

[mike]

for those not too familar with buchholz or bowden i will post their scouting reports for you

here is buchholz:
Buchholz has a low-to-mid 90s four-seam fastball, a two-seam fastball, a slider, curveball, and a circle change. Good demeanor on the mound. Pitches well under pressure, pitching coaches have said he has ice water running through his veins. ill add towards the end of the year this year when the sox let him throw harder he was hitting mid 90's on his fastball

now here is bowden's :
Bowden has an arsenal of four MLB caliber pitches: a low-90s fastball which tops out at 95, a 12-6 hard breaking curve, a tight slider, and a plus circle changeup. Bowden is said to be a workaholic and just loves to pitch - another player who just lives and dies for baseball. Very athletic. Absolutely dominated high school competition in 2005. Delivery is not as smooth as it could be. High ceiling. Bowden also was ranked by baseball america as having the best command in the red sox farm system. not bad for a 20 year old

[was385]

Cordero would dominate the AL East too. The NL East is probably the second strongest hitting division in baseball right now. The Mets, Phillies, and Braves are all top run scoring teams

[AndrewS]

If I was JIM Bowden I would ask for is Jon Lester and Kason Gabbard
...and if you want Ryan Church all I'd ask for is E. Martinez

[mike]

I don't see cordero being a dominate closer in the AL east especially if he would have trouble giving up the long ball again. cordero is not worth giving up buchholz or bowden im sorry but you dont trade for a reliever and give up top starting pitching prosepcts. I never thought the sox would trade for a closer this offseason cause teams would be asking for buchholz and bowden and theo wont trade them away not in this deal at least. sox got their new pitching coach too so im sure he will be doing a lot of work with hansen during spring training and delcarmen. i will admit though the sox did ruin hansen by rushing him up so fastly. nats fans though can keep dreaming if they think they would get bowden or buchholz for cordero

[Guitar Hero]

See you sox fans are forgetting your rotation is locked up for years anyway, so excess SP can be thrown away anyway.

[mike]

Jon Lester? yeah cause the red sox will give him up for a closer who may do well in the AL. Theo wouldn't include Lester in the andruw jones talks with the braves at the deadline so you honestly think he would offer lester for a closer? no chance. This is exactly the reason why the sox wont be trading for a closer cause teams will be asking for their top prosepcts.

[mike]

how is our rotation locked up for years? 2007 our rotation is

schilling
beckett
matsuzaka
papelbon
wakefiel

schilling is retiring in 2007 and wakefield may not be a starter in 2007. that leaves 2 openings in the rotation. lester will most likely get one of those openings and be an everyday starter in 2008. wakefield could fill the role as a starter in 2008 till buchholz is ready. so your argument is not really that good. Both Bard and Bowden could be ready by 2009 so it could be likely someone gets traded but you can never have too much starting pitching

[mike]

I meant to say schilling is retiring after 2007 and wakefield may not be a starter after 2007.

[bamabosoxfan]

I wouldn't be surprised if Schilling AND Wakefield retired after '07. Hence the reason Mirabelli got a one-year deal. They're keeping him to catch the knuckler for his last year then moving on to George Kottaras.

As for the rotation, Jon Lester will step in and be a major player. I also believe that Bucholtz will be there too. So the rotation is set, but I still don't see getting rid of guys like Hansen and Bowden.

You can never have too many young guns in your farm system. The Sox found that out last year when everyone started getting hurt.

[bamabosoxfan]

Besides, my question is:

Cordero is lights out in the National League, but we'd all be blind if we said that the NL is a weaker hitter's league. And Boston is a little more high pressure than Washington. Does anyone honestly think Cordero is the best choice??

[bamabosoxfan]

Oops I meant to say we'd all be blind if we didn't say that the NL is the weaker hitter's league. Besides guys like Pujols and Howard who can absolutely kill you, there aren't many hitters that just absolutely kill pitchers.

[boomshwa12]

what exactly is wrong with paplebon to keep him from being the closer? usually it seems like pitchers with arm troubles go to the bullpen, not the other way around. could his injury woes just be because it was his first year out of the bullpen and he wasn't used to it? or did francona just overwork him? seems like if they would just limit his workload to an inning in save situations he would be fine...but i don't know the extent of his issues

[Guitar Hero]

You also have to consider that closers probably don't face pitcher's all that often in the NL because late in the game guys are being substitued.

[darkstar1661]

Here, I did this for the “Unit Trade Not Done Yet” thread…

ALE scored 4016, 803.2 per team and breaks down to 4.95 per 162G
ALC scored 4118, 823.6 per team and breaks down to 5.08 per 152G
ALW scored 3128, 782 per team and breaks down to 4.83 per 162G
NLE scored 4052, 810.4 per team and breaks down to 5.00 per 162G
NLC scored 4402, 733.7 per team and breaks down to 4.26 per 162G
NLW scored 3883, 776.6 per team and breaks down to 4.79 per 162G

ALC 5.08/162
NLE 5.00/162
ALE 4.96/162
ALW 4.83/162
NLW 4.79/162
NLC 4.26/162

AL: 11262 runs / 804.43 per team / 4.97 per 162
NL: 12337 runs / 771.06 per team / 4.76 per 162

Factor teams played for:
NLE – WAS = 3306/826.5 per team and 5.10 per 162
ALE – BOS =3196/799 per team and 4.93 per 162
Now because the league difference is about 0.20 but you only play about 1/2 your games against the other teams in the league we have a fluctuation of about .10 in there (this also doesnt add in interleague play). With that fluctuation it was still harder to pitch for the Nats than the BoSox last year…

[mike]

Papelbon isnt really an option for a closer cause they dont want him stressing his shoulder by pitching 3,4 days in a row. they figure they can control it better by having him on a set throwing schedule and only pitching once every 5 days. which makes sense cause when papelbon would go out and close he would just go and let it all out each time. he wont do that while he is starting every pitch. we would all love to see papelbon closing but not at the risk of injury. papelbon was also a starter in the minors and showed no sign on problems then. If the red sox medical staff says he is better off being a starter then we should consider figure its what is best for him. their medical staff has been very good at stuff like that. the sox will go with what they have now and let them battle it out during spring training. they will most likely make at least one more signing for a pitcher though. there is zero chance they give the nats either bowden or buchholz for cordero. the nats and their fans can keep on wishing that cause it wont happen. If i had to guess the sox are going to try and give hansen all the time during spring training to prove himself if not he will start off at AAA. Timlin wouldnt be a horrible option but only if he starts an inning off with nobody on base. he always does a lot better when starting off an inning with nobody on base. main question becomes though if they need someone to close in tougher situations then who would it be? cause timlin is horrible in those situations. they are likely just going to go game by game who closes. its not what sox fans want to hear myself included but its the likely thing to happen

[GoBoSox420]

Yeah, as much as I'd love to see cordero in a red sox uniform. I dont want to see bucholz, bowden or hansen gone.

[JakeOD21]

I wouldn't mind a trade of Bowden and Hansen for Cordero. I like Hansen a lot and I think he can be a fine ML pitcher so long as he finds his slider again, and who knows if that will happen. I would like to see what he can do in a Sox uniform, but who knows if it will happen.

As for Bowden, he's definitely a good prospect yet theres a lot of question about whether his delivery is suited for being a starter. If he starts having arm trouble he might have to become a reliever. I agree that Buccholz should be untouchable. I think he, Bard and lester will be the sox young reinforcements when schilling and wakefield go.

I don't think Bowden and Hansen for Cordero would be a bad trade at all.

[Grimm]

Cordero is not worth buchholz or Bowden. I think Hansen would be a perfect fit for Cordero, who is around the same age, but with more major league experience. Hansen was always called our closer of the future, so why wait when he may not even pan out? And Cordero should be fine with the pressure Boston brings, a closer handles pressure every time they pitch. Roto, how would Cordero's number's translate to the AL and a much smaller park?

[quintjs]

If Theo was actually willing to trade Bowden, Buchholz, etc etc the deal would have been done months ago.

I have said before if the Sox were willing to trade those guys, and well as Papelbon, Lester, Ellsbury, there are very few players the Sox couldn't get through trade.

It is not worth it, its insane for a closer, and there will be no deal.

This is why the mid-season deal is more likely. If Papelbon, Beckett, Matsuzaka and even Lester prove themselves as real quality starting pitchers, then maybe the Sox don't need all that starting pitching depth in the minors, and can trade one or two of them. Those 4 guys are locked up long enough for the Sox to do this.

[was385]

I am going to inform some of you sox fans what it is like to not have a proven closer in a hard hitting division. I am a braves fan and my team last year went through Jorge Sosa, Chris Reitsma, and Ken Ray as a closer last year and they all sucked. We would have had the wild card with a solid closer since so many leads were blown (Smoltz had nine or ten alone). It is bad and you'll see if you go into the season with like Julian Tavarez closing how bad it can be

[nrmax88]

mike, the NL east is just as good a hitting division as the AL east, if not better

[Suwanee]

I just do not understand why the SOX will not start the season with Papelbon - it aint broke, don't fix it or hurt your farm system. Cordero is not all that!

[mike]

the sox will not start the season with papelbon cause it has already been said a number of times its better off for his shoulder to be a starter than a closer

[mike]

best guess for the sox closer situation is they let it play out in spring training. if they see nobody can step up and do it then they possibly make a trade. Tavarez is an interesting guy that people bring up to close cause everytime he started off an inning clean his era was 1.02 and kept a decent era from pitches 1-15. it has also been said that tavarez pitches a lot better with pressure on him. I mean if he can pitch out of the pen in 2007 like he did as a starter at the end of 2006 then he wont be a terrible option. I still think the sox will give hansen every chance in spring training to find his slider cause when his slider is there its nasty. as a sox fan it doesn't thrill me to say that it will really likely come down to the game situation and who is up at the plate to determine who will close games. It will not be PAPELBON for the last time. they wont risk him getting hurt again

[JakeOD21]

I'm starting to get irritated by people wondering why the Sox won't keep Papelbon as a closer. If you read anything on the topic by Epstein, Francona, or anyone else of importance in the organization, Papelbon isn't even in the discussion because of his bad shoulder.

[mike]

Yeah it is annoying when you get people saying I don't understand why they don't let papelbon close. It is like hello people do you have a clue about the situation. It has been known papelbon was going to be a starter since the last game of the season when theo and francona had the end of the year press conference at the end of the game. The people who suggest papelbon back into the closer can't be red sox fans cause any red sox fan already knows why papelbon into the closer's role isn't happening

[touchmymonkey]

Is Clement that far away from pitching - last I read he was on schedule to make spring training. They already have him and have to pay him anyways why not give him a shot at closing? Sometimes a average starter can be lights out closer for awhile ( Gagne, Eckersley come to mind although Clement is not as good as Eck was as a starter). He does have flashes of talent - and in a walk year would score major $$ if he excelled.

[Guitar Hero]

Hey is it just me, or does the Nationals payroll for 2007 come out at like 20 milloin? I think thats the case, but it makes sense if you look at there roster and realize they don't have a full team yet.

[mike]

I think clement can just start throwing during the spring from everything i read he wont be anywhere near game ready till midseason at the earliest. I think an article that came out was just saying he could start throwing in the spring. The earliest we will likely see clement would be june or july. he is the last guy i would want coming out of the bullpen for the sox cause he has had some serious control problems

[touchmymonkey]

From what I remember of his cub days - had more problems second time thru lineup and after a few hits he tensed up - might not be horrible in 1 inning spurts

[ArodSucksAtLife]

I liked the idea of putting Clement in the bullpen he has the stuff to be dominant in one inning situations. However him pitching at all in '07 is unlikely.

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060927&content_id=1686556&vkey=news_bos&fext=.jsp&c_id=bos

The Sox aren't going to go out and trade for any closers, they have a decent bullpen, and unless they look horrible in spring training and blow a ton of leads in the beginning of the year I can't imagine them giving up any of their promising prospects for a closer. Tavarez, Timlin, J.C Romero, Okajima, Brendan Donnelly, Manny Delcarmen, Devern Hansack, Craig Hansen, Edgar Martinez. Thats a good bullpen. Even if Hansen, and Edgar Martinez are in the minors to start the year one of their already signed arms will get the closers job.

[touchmymonkey]

Since I am a cub fan i guess its mandatory that i add what every thread needs - A Jaque Jones trade proposal based in fantasy. Jones and Dempster for coco crisp and Delcarmen. redsox outfield would be manny ,drew and jones - not too shabby hit wise

[levelboss]

if the Red Sox trade their prospects (3) for Cordero then the 'circle is complete'

the Red Sox would have effectively overpaid for (eventually) JD Drew and Julio Lugo and Dice-K (roughly $18 mil/yr including posting fee) AND traded top prospects for a player.. all the things that Red Sox Nation has criticized the Yankees for over the past 3 years or so

the Empire now wears red

[GoBoSox420]

the empire STILL wears pinstripes. Just because the sox are doing the same shit as the yanks doesnt put the yankees in the clear.

Not to mention the yanks didnt get that rep from one offseason

[levelboss]

the Empire now wears red.. the heroes wear blue pinstripes

[mike]

the sox didn't overpay for lugo. he is going to do great at fenway. he puts up some nice career numbers at fenway. sure his defense is a concern. as far as drew goes 14 million is a lot but he is perfect for the number 5 spot for the sox. I dont think the sox overpaid for matsuzaka not with the way pitching is going price wise this offseason. even if you do count the posting fee which doesnt go against the salary or anything like that 18 million a year for someone who could be an ace isnt bad. if matsuzaka lives up to the hype then its right around market value. the yankees are the won who overpaid for their japanese pitcher. include the posting fee and its what 9 million a year for a guy who will likely be in the bullpen at some point. also i think its clear that the sox are not going to trade any top prospects for cordero or any other closer cause if that was the case a deal would of been done a while ago

[EM3]

Boston should start the year off going in house for their closer. If things don't work out, they can always make a trade in June/July.
But I really think one of Tavarez/Timlin/Hanseck/Hansen/Delcarmen/Donnelly, etc. will step up and get it done for a year.

Not to mention Runelvys Hernandez. That was a quiet signing, but I really liked it. A change of scenery could do wonders for the big boy. With some polishing, I could totally see him developing into a good closer.

[levelboss]

hahahahahaha! just kidding folks

just like to poke fun at Red Sox Nation for their scathing criticism of the Yankees for the past 3 years

this offseason, the Red Sox FO has pretty much acted like the Yankees FO for the past 3 years.. overspending and throwing weight around; i think Brian Cashman has done an exceptional job for the Yankees at GM from last year's hot stove (Johnny Damon) to July 31 (Bobby Abreu) to this year's hot stove (pitchers pitchers pitchers!)

[mike]

how are the red sox overpaying? this is what the market value is now. i mean if a guy like pierre can get 9 million a year, meche gets 11 million a year I wouldn't call the sox overspending. if your going to say cashman as done an exceptional job cause of damon and abreu then you have to say the same about theo for locking up ortiz to an extension during the year for cheap and even beckett. dont forget either the yankees did give petitte alot of money this offseason and they could be setting up to throw a ton of money at clemens. oh yeah and including posting fee that japanese guy comes out to about 9 million a year. if he ends up in the bullpen like some thing then wow that will be a waste

[quintjs]

Who is worth more wins for the Sox, today or in the future, Bowden, Buchholz or Cordero?

Its not like Cordero would save every game, or the guys already there will lose every save.

With the new offense, and pitching, they would hope to not have to use their closer that often, should get 3+ win margins often.

The Sox bullpen is not good, not bad, its ok. They have more options than 2006, when they had none.

[bravesrule14]

i would say that the Al East and the Nl East are both about equal in the hitting department. The Mets and Yankees are both pitchers nightmares and the Red Sox, Braves, and Phillies are almost as destressing. you could easily name 20 guys from each division that kill pitchers

[RightHandMan]

Im taking nothing away from what Cordero has accomplished thus far in his career, and with that said, I do not want him on the redsox, if the cost is 2-3 of these guys. Or as a Closer Period.

Its the same vector as the yankees interest in Mike Gonzalez. Gonzalez would not close in NY. Not because of Mo, but because its a different level of play.

On a different note..

Buccholz, Bowden, Hansen...represent the future of this franchise. The RedSox Front Office has a plan, and the Kids are it.

Ask yourselves this question...What is the Rarest, most expensive commodity in baseball??

Its not dominate closers...

Its not power offense...

ITS EFFECTIVE YOUNG PITCHING!

In 2009 your looking at a potental rotation of 5 of these guys:

Matsuzaka
Beckett
Papelbon
Lester
Buccholz
Bowden
Bard

Who ALL have the stuff to be #1's

4/5ths of that rotation is Cost Controlled

3/5ths of that rotation is home grown.

The guys who dont make the rotation, can be traded to fill other holes at that time.

In 2009 this team could have a 90-115 million dollar payroll. and be potentially the best team in baseball...

I guess with the potential this organization has in its farm pitching wise, it would be STUPID to trade any of it away until they have reached their maximum value.

[touchmymonkey]

Does anyone have a link with all teams 2007 projected salary costs?

[dr. drew]

If the Sox fail to make a deal for Cordero or Gonzales, then my money is on Donnelly.

He has closer experience and mentality. He's a bulldog.

And he typically puts up good numbers in the spring.

You heard it hear first.

[manramfan]

According to ESPN

Red Sox, Pineiro close to deal

The Red Sox and Joel Pineiro are close to agreeing to a one-year deal worth a guaranteed $4 million, ESPN.com reports.
Incentives could increase the total. We like the idea of Pineiro as a reliever, though Eric Gagne at $6 million guaranteed seems like a better investment than Pineiro at $4 million. For that kind of money, Pineiro will likely receive an opportunity to take over as Boston's closer. He had plenty of opportunities to start elsewhere, and it seems doubtful that he's passing them up in order to become a middle reliever. Jan. 3 - 4:12 pm et
Source: ESPN.com

if that's the case, there's our closer

[ArodSucksAtLife]

God I hope not.