Rumor Roundup

There are a host of smaller stories floating around, so I will mention them in one post.

Trading Todd Helton seems to be a touchy subject in Denver.  But I don't think that since Dan O'Dowd made this bed, he has to lie in it.  Yes, the insane contract was his mistake, but if he can do something to improve the team's outlook and give them the payroll flexibility to compete for the rest of the decade, he has to do it.  Baseball is a business, even if Helton is well-liked and wants to stay in Colorado.  Seems that he might veto any trade though.

Didn't realize Shawn Chacon's contract can be bought out for less than a million in spring training.  I think the Pirates should do this and bring in a decent starter.  Maybe not Tony Armas Jr., but Jon Lieber would be cool if the Phils ate some salary.  If the Bucs can get a little defense going on they could almost contend in the NL Central.  They shouldn't waste 100 innings on Chacon.

Paul Lo Duca is a free agent after '07 and wants to talk contract extension. The Mets seem a little reluctant.

Would it make sense to trade Adam Dunn for Brad Penny?

How cool would it be to have the Marlins' manager on your jury?  AND John Schuerholz in the jury pool for the same case?

Buster Olney reports that the Phils and Padres are kicking around an Aaron Rowand trade.  San Diego would send a reliever for him.

RotoAuthority projects Scott Kazmir for '07.

Comments

[bravesrule14]

Dunn for Penny...idt that would make sense to me. well maybe for Cincy, but for the Dodgers i would be looking for a third baseman.

[TheSweetSpot]

Why in the world would the Dodgers be looking for a third baseman? They have a young man by the name of Andy LaRoche who could step right in if need be and until he's ready they have Wilson Betemit who had a good showing last year. I say great deal on both sides.

[boomshwa12]

i agree with that, and in a couple of years the reds could actually have a good rotation

bailey
penny
harang
arroyo
whoever's left

[bravesrule14]

i was under the impression that the Dodge front office didnt like Betemit. i was thinking get a guy in the last year of his contract and put LaRoche in the minors for a half of a season and then deal the guy at the deadline and platoon LaRoche and Betemit. kind of wat the Braves did with the other LaRoche.

[bravesrule14]

boom i would put Harang in front of Penny, Harang is going to be a star

[Aduncaroo]

There is no chance I would put Harang in front of Penny. Penny started an all star game (i know, because of an injury) and I don't think Harang ever lives up to last year again. I think at best he could be a solid 2 starter, at least for a winning club. Penny should win at least 15 games for the next few years, especially if he came to the Central. Harang just doesnt seem like he has that good of stuff to me, but I guess it could be just me. I have nothing against the guy, just doesn't impress me that much.

[Guitar Hero]

Helton is still not a bad player at all. His power might come back a bit in the next few years, and his OBP is still great. You have to ask: if they have to eat 30-40 million of his contract, would it still be worth just keeping him? I think another team could use his bat if they took h im for 10-12 million a year...but the thing is that its a lot of years...

[Guitar Hero]

If Adam Dunn is a free agent after this year, then certainly it would be great for cincy, because Penny is under contract for 3 more years at a good price. It's just they'd have no offence...but offence is easier to acquire and cheaper than pitching.

[Aduncaroo]

and Dunn would be almost EXACTLY what the dodgers are looking for, which is the only reason they would let Penny go. They have OBP guys and guys that hit for average and doubles, but they need POWER, which is the Dunn's middle name. He strikes out a lot, but that doesn't hurt the dodgers nearly as much as it hurts most teams. They need some power,and Dunn can hit the ball out of any part of any park. The guy is a monster. He strikes out way too much, but when the guy makes contact it goes a long, long way. He is just what the dodgers are looking for, and I would do it if I were Cincy too. He is going to cost them too much after this year.
The dodgers could put him at 1st and move Nomar around. This would really help solidify the lineup and the rotation would still be very good. Seems to me like it makes too much sense to actually happen though...there are rarely trades between teams involving big name guys that help both teams. There is always one idiot as a GM in trades these days....

[beeniez]

I think Dunn is worth more to their franchise than Penny would be. Maybe Penny and a decent prospect. They need pitching though, so it wouldn't be a bad trade. I think they should get more though from a guy who walks 100+ and is a virtual lock for 40 home runs.

[kuff6]

Harang has been great for 2 years now, not just 1. I was skeptical he could repeat going into last year, but he showed it was no fluke. I think it is very difficult to rely on Penny - he is hurt. He hasn't topped 200 innings since 2001.

[kuff6]

that was supposed to say that Penny is "always" hurt

[tmar]

Seems like a pretty even trade. The Reds give up 2 years of control of a 40HR hitter for 3 years of control of a pitcher with a little risk but great potential.

In this crazy pitching market, I'd say it would be a fair swap for Cin and LA's pitching is deep enough that the deal would make them a better all around team.

[Darin]

I think Cincy would have one of the weakest lineups in baseball if they give up Dunn, and everyone know's Griffy will end up hurt. They'd be left with Encarnacion and Brandon Phillips as their "sluggers"....ouch.

[RotoAuthority]

Encarnacion is pretty good though

[ejruiz777]

Helton's contract is a bit absurd and it certainly goes a long way in eclipsing what his bat has left. I think he'd be an ideal #2 hitter for most teams, but the Rox would have to swallow some of his contract and swallow hard. If they can somehow find a swing team willing to take the bullet
(like the Marlins did in the Johnson-Spooneybarger-Hampton deal) that would be great.

Dunn for Penny seems to be a pretty fair trade. The poor Dodgers were sandbagged so hard by JD Drew that I almost feel sorry for them as I watch them scramble for a power hitter to fill the void. They can afford to deal starting pitching and the Reds would have a nice looking rotation very soon if they snagged Penny.

Speaking of stacked pitching, the Padres are loaded in the rotation AND bullpen, so they should have plenty of ammo to pull of a deal to strengthen their lineup. I just don't think that Rowand is what they should be looking for.

[bobo]

There is nothing about Harang to suggest that he is a fluke. Penny, on the other hand, had a 2nd half in 2006 that is seriously scary.

Given that Penny is signed for 3 years, and Dunn for only one, it seems that the Reds would have to include something else.

With Penny and Bailey, the Reds' rotation looks damn good. Without Dunn though, the offense is pretty bad.

Still, I make the trade if I'm the Reds - they have Bruce coming up, and like others have said, offense is easier to find.

But all that said, if the Dodgers are actively shopping Penny (and also because they were willing to sign Schmidt), it makes me think they know that he's in bad shape health-wise.

Lots of question marks all around about this deal.

[hiphopjunkie]

i agree that dunn would provide the power that the dodgers have been lacking. but lets not forget that most of the NL west teams have ballparks that are considered pitchers parks. so if this trade does go through i wouldn't be suprised if dunn's power slipped.

[Aduncaroo]

I would be very suprised if Dunn doesn't do just as well, or maybe a few HR difference at worst. He is getting closer to his prime and the guy is a monster. Did you see any of his home runs? Its not like they just get over the fence. He hits them pretty much at least 400 feet when they go out, every time. There are very few parks that would make that much of a difference for Dunn.

[hood]

Does anyone think the Angels would do a Dunn for Escobar deal.

[genericpadsfan]

Dunn probably won't be traded because a) he is Cincinnati's offense and b) if he's traded he becomes a free agent after this year. If he stays he's signed for anther year after this one. So Dunn is worth more to the Reds than to anyone else, although I don't know if Krivsky values him properly.

[Darin]

Roto,

I have no complaints about
Edwin Encarnacion as a #6 hitter, but a #3 or 4? He's a .270ish, high .400 SLG guy, not someone I'd want to be carrying my team.

[rawr]

Brad Penny is about a year away from blowing out his arm for good.

[MickS]

First of all, given a choice I take Harang over Penny any day of the week.

I also don't think the Dunn for Penny deal is that far fetched. Krivsky is clearly a defense and pitching guy from his Twins days and certainly under-values a guy like Dunn. The quirks of Dunn's contract are probably the only obstacles to the deal.

[RotoAuthority]

No he's more like a .480-.500 slugger for next year. He'd be great in the middle of the lineup.

[Aduncaroo]

Maybe you are right about Harang, I don't know. I just have seen him pitch a bunch and have never been impressed. I especially wouldn't be comfortable with him being the "Ace" of my staff.

[Aduncaroo]

and I gotta go with Darin on this. I just don't think I would want Encarnacion batting in the 3 or 4 hole for me if I expected to win. 5 would be ok, I think thats probably where he would fit in best.

[lih]

I think Penny's two more years. He signed a three year extension in 05. I could be wrong though. And I'd say his back will go out before his arm does, but that may be fairly soon. I think he'll pitch well in the beginning of the season, get traded for a bat, and then probably have a cei. Haha. He needs to lose some weight to keep the strain off his back. Even if he doesn't get injured, the second half will likely be rough again.

[schellis]

Harang is the best pitcher in the NL that nobody knows about. A case could have been made that he should have won the Cy Young, mind you Webb was the right choice but Harang should have done alot better in the vote.

There are only a handful of pitchers that I'd want out there before him. He is a ace and better then alot of the "name" guys out there.

As for the Dunn/Penny deal that would be a epically horrible deal for the Reds. Yes lets deal the entire offense for a pitcher that hasn't pitched 200 innings, has spent his entire career pitching in pitchers parks and who's numbers have never really matched his stuff. Not to mention the injury trouble and the fact that the Dodgers considered running him to the bullpen at the end of the year.

Just because you start a all-star game doesn't mean you are a great pitcher. Jack Armstrong started the 1990 all star game and pretty much disappeared after that.

Dunn is the Reds number 3 hitter with EE behind him in the 4th slot the pair will each have great seasons.

Now the deal that I think the Reds need to make happen is find a way to get Rowand away from the Phillies. If they want a reliever I'd send them Majewski and a prospect for him right now.

[hotsaucenchickin]

I don't know if i would want to give up pitching for Rowand if the Reds already have Ryan Freel and Chris Denorfia. All of them are similar types of players.

The Reds only need Aaron Harang to be an ace for one more year anyway. Homer Bailey will be at the top of the rotation and doing just fine.

If the Reds were to trade Dunn for only a pitcher I think they would trade for a much younger and durable one. Maybe Ervin Santana. Not injury prone Brad Penny or old Kelvim Escobar.

If Dunn was gone the Reds would not be in that bad of shape offensively. They still have some pretty good players in the minors that could be ready in the middle of the season. Joey Votto and Jay Bruce. There is always the chance that Joey Hamilton could step in and be the play many thought he may have been int he major leagues.

[allabouthephils]

That deal is dead in the water from the start..... No way the Reds give up Majewski for Rowand just as the Phillies wouldn't give up Rowand for Majewski.... Plus, Ryan Freel has alot more to work with than Rowand... I love A-Row but frankly Ryan Freel has more speed and is a better hitter without giving away much on defense ( if anything at all)...

[nrmax88]

"and Dunn would be almost EXACTLY what the dodgers are looking for, which is the only reason they would let Penny go. They have OBP guys and guys that hit for average and doubles, but they need POWER, which is the Dunn's middle name"

agreed dunc. This is what I was saying around the time they signed Juan Pierre, that if they put a big bopper in the middle of that lineup, they could be dangerous. They guy i had in mind was VWells of course before he got locked up, but Dunn would be nice too. Have the 2 table setters in Furcal and JP, then the the veteran Nomar protected by Dunn, followed by Kent and Martin? Thats a real good looking lineup.

[schellis]

Rowand is significantly better then Freel or Dino. Dino is realitively unproven and Freel can't play every day...he turns into a horrible hitter if he does, just wears out way to fast with his style of play. Rowand is a GG caliber CF (something that is needed with Griffey and Dunn on the corners) has 20-30 homer power and can hit around .275.

If he could be had for a reliever/prospect package I would make the deal.

Then send Freel somewhere for pitching help.

Freel is flashy and the media loves him, but he's highly over rated because of that. He's a good utility guy, nothing more.

Just look at his stats when he was put into the starting lineup everyday after the "trade", he barely cracked the mendoza line, you can't steal 1st.

And the Reds offense would be beyond horrible without Dunn, its barely average with him. You can't count on young players that haven't even played above AA. Bruce for instance won't be ready till 2008 unless he's rushed, and they might keep Votto at AAA till September, they didn't rush to promote him to AAA even though he was killing the ball in AA after all.

[nrmax88]

"i agree that dunn would provide the power that the dodgers have been lacking. but lets not forget that most of the NL west teams have ballparks that are considered pitchers parks. so if this trade does go through i wouldn't be suprised if dunn's power slipped."

I dont know if you watch Dunn a lot, or just look at his stats, but it doesnt really matter where he is playing. He doesnt hit too many wallscrapers. As others have said, he usually Ks, draws a walk, or hits a HR, a long HR. He is hitting almost all 400 feet+ HRs. I dont think it would give a significant slip to his power. Especially if Pierre and Furcal can get on base for him( if this deal went thru)

[schellis]

If you put slapped Dunn into the number 3 slot behind those two and put a good all around hitter behind him to clean up after him I believe that Dunn would be a MVP caliber player.

I think he'd have a year better then the one that Howard just put up.

One thing also that people sometimes forget...Dunn isn't all that old. I believe that Howard is actually the same age or older then he is. Dunn can still improve and personally I hope that the Reds are smart enough to realize the talent that they have and don't send him off in a horrible trade for someone like Penny.

A deal like that just stinks of another deal that the Reds made decades ago. Frank Robinson for Milt Pappas.

[jd]

^^schellis
dunn and howard are both 27. it sure seems like dunn was older but good call.

[Yars]

About Helton, his name has come up before regarding 'roids. It would be interesting to see what numbers he would put up if healthy & playing for another team. Did playing at Coors inflate his stats? Are any of those 'roids rumors true? Opinions vary. Regarding Brad Penny/Adam Dunn, I think Penny is a 60 Day DL stint waiting to happen. Reds need to hold onto Dunn. I have no confidence in Jr. Griffey anymore. Dodgers will still score plenty of runs, even if they don't trade for Dunn. I see the NL West still being up for grabs. A 3 team race this season. (Padres, Dodgers, DBacks)

[Aduncaroo]

Pujols is actually YOUNGER than Howard as well.....scary thought that most people dont realize. Howard is good, but while he was in the minors for 6 years Pujols was putting up .330 35 120 type seasons.

[hotsaucenchickin]

Dunn is actually only ten days older. I don't know who this applies to because schellis and jd both contradict eachother.

And the Dodgers are not getting one of the premier power hitters in the game for a crap pitcher. I's be glad to take a couple of your super prospects off your hands though.