Michael Barrett Traded To Padres

According to Buster Olney, Michael Barrett has just been traded to the Padres.  The Padres will also receive cash in the deal.  Ken Rosenthal believes the amount of cash is greater than $1MM, since it needs approval from the commissioner's office.  In return, the Cubs received backup catcher Rob Bowen and a young outfielder named Kyler Burke. 

Burke, 19, was drafted 35th overall out of high school last year based on his huge power potential and athleticism.  He hasn't shown anything against pro pitching yet.  Kevin Goldstein of Baseball Prospectus says Burke has an "enormous ceiling" with a strong right field arm.  This is an upside play by Jim Hendry - Burke could be a star or a complete bust.

Bowen will provide the Cubs a mostly defensive-minded backstop, although that's what they have already.  He was once seen as a future starter as a Twins minor leaguer, but his bat never panned out.  Bowen has teamed up with Henry Blanco before, when both were Twins.  Bowen was a waiver claim for his last two teams, so that gives you an idea of his value.  On the plus side, he's speedy for a catcher and a switch-hitter.

The Padres, meanwhile, are looking to bolster their offense in the present and Barrett should be able to help despite his poor start to 2007.  I'm not too worried about chemistry issues despite Barrett's recent incidents.  Barrett is reunited with Greg Maddux, who he caught from 2004-06.  Barrett is a free agent after the season.

Jim Hendry and Kevin Towers matched up last year, as the Cubs dumped off veterans Scott Williamson and Todd Walker to San Diego for some arms.

Comments

[WHIPit]

In return, the Cubs get peace in the clubhouse. That is, until Zambrano decided to whip his belt off in a fight again.

Cubs=class

Nothing screams class like fighting amongst yourselves and using a belt in a fight!

[Teetz]

Not surprising, but we have nobody waiting in the wings to take his place. Koyie Hill is an automatic out and Henry Blanco is likely out for most of the season. Hank White is also an automatic out, by the way.

You would think there has to be another trade brewing for a catcher. Possibly Ramon Hernandez. Hendry has a lot of trade history with the Orioles.

[miltie]

"the Cubs get peace in the clubhouse"

At least know what you're talking about before posting.

[Teetz]

He didn't try to use a belt in the fight, he was changing uniforms in the clubhouse when the fight started and came out as is. The Cubs are easily the classiest and most successful organization in all of sports. Carlos Zambrano helps old ladies cross the street.

[ikilledthehobo]

I don't imagine that Josh Bard would be a fair trade-off. Maybe there might be a third team involved, or they could grab Bard and spin him off somewhere else with a reliever or something mixed in.

[Not Joe Morgan]

I have to think Linebrink is way to much for a .307 OBP catcher who (reportedly) is a poor game caller / staff handler.

[Chipper]

I wonder if Carlos Zambrano influenced this deal. "Hurry up and trade him, before I have to whip him again!"

[Teetz]

Hendry knew, coming into this season, that Barrett was a bad defensive catcher. Instead of trading him in the offseason when his value would be at it's highest, he waits until he gets into a fistfight with his pitcher and his manager benches him in favor of Koyie Hill. I'm glad Hendry never sells low.

[Chipper]

Hold up Teetz. The Cubs are easily the most classiest and most successful organizations? The Braves easily more classier and more successful than the Cubs. Heck, at least we've won a couple of world series the past what now? 90 years!

[Teetz]

Chipper, joke.

[Teetz]

Why didn't they wait until AFTER Derrek Lee served his suspension and Aramis came back before they dealt Barrett for basically nobody?

[Aduncaroo]

Easy there Chipper...

I CANNOT believe that they didn't at LEAST get some bullpen help. The Padres have an abundance, the Cubs are in need. How the hell does Hendry make a trade with them and not get some RP??? I don't care if he had to throw someone else in...he has GOT to get some bullpen help if you are making a trade with the Padres.

[bigbaddbobbyjenks]

cuz barrett and his weak offensive yr and non existent D doesn't warrant any good arms. SD was probably offering some scrub single A arms and the cubs decided to take burke

[Teetz]

This is what happens when you sell low on a player. You don't get anything good. I hope Hendry doesn't play the stock market.

[RotoAuthority]

Some updates above with some info about Burke.

[Aduncaroo]

Anybody believe that they might go after Salty now? I don't know what it would take to get him.

I brought this up in the Braves CF thread...

What does anyone think about Marshall and Murton\Pagan for Salty? Marshall is very good, and cheap for a long, long time. The braves need another starter...and he is probably as good as any they are going to get...and he is very cheap. I have a hard time with this as a Cubs fan...because I really like Marshall, but Salty would do them a whole lot of good right now considering they really don't have a catcher worth starting in the bigs.

[RotoAuthority]

I am a big Marshall fan but I think the Braves could do better for Salty.

[RotoAuthority]

Maybe this means the Cubs think they can snag someone decent this winter, like Posada or even Lo Duca.

[Teetz]

Yeah I think the Braves can also do better for LaMacchia, which is spanish for The Macchia.

[Aduncaroo]

Consider this. Do you think the Braves could do better than Marshall when you consider he has less than 1 year service time, which means he will be cheap for a long, long time?

I know they might be able to do better talent wise right now...but not by a whole lot and certainly not for the money. Just my thought...

[Teetz]

All good points duncaroo. However; I've heard numerous times the Braves call Saltalamacchia untouchable this season.

[Aduncaroo]

I hear ya....

I think its just cause I thought that Salty was awesome since we played the Braves this year...and now that Barrett is gone...seems like it would be worth giving up some talent to get a guy like that. But JS is not dumb...if he trades him, he won't be for anything less than a SP that will help now and in the future, and he would prefer him being cheap.

[Bing_chi_ling]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070620&content_id=2038291&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Says here that Cubs got a minor league pitcher. Not an outfielder.

So is this a better deal for the Padres or the Cubs??

[bravesbeast]

Aduncroo,
I like where your head is at. I mean Marshall and Pagan is a decent offer, but roto and Teetz are both right, Salty is going to remain untouchable unless the braves get a starting pitcher that improves us now and is a frontline starter in the future. That may be asking too much, but salty means that much too us. The only way I see salty going to the cubs is for pie, and I would not do that deal if i were the cubs. It makes sense because the cubs need a young catcher and the braves could use a young centerfielder, but that trade just is not going to happen because pie is the more talented player with higher upside. I still think in the end we hold onto salty and maybe find some decent pitching help dangling yunel escoabar.

[bravesbeast]

Lol, sorry that was my first point was the exact same one you made in your last point. Did not read it till I had got finished typing mine

[beauhoopman]

There are too many Cubs fans on this site.
Marshall and Marmol for Salty? Absolutely ridiculous. A switch hitting catcher, the best catching prospect in the game?
Now Marshall has certainly been good thus far, but was he ever even considered a top-tier prospect? Do you really think if the Braves were going to move him they couldn't do substantially better? This Marshall stuff on this board is killing me. The guy GOT RID OF A PITCH, and now hes the second coming? Maybe, but I'm not buying it.

[CubsFan84]

wow. another failure by the cubs organization. Was the clubhouse THAT bad? Barrett's offense might have been a bit of a slump but he has 10 home runs. He was probably distracted. He's going to go somewhere and play first base or DH and hit 35 longballs and the Cubs will be kicking themselves in the head for getting absolutely nothing.

[Aduncaroo]

No worries. I'm just wishful thinking because I am a big fan and he is exactly what the Cubs need. You are right though...they won't do Pie.

Man I wish Prior was worth something....HA!

I actually am a pretty big Escobar fan too. Did I hear that he actually played SS in the minors?

[Aduncaroo]

I don't think the offer is as bad as you are saying beauhoopman. Look at Marshall's numbers and the run support that he has gotten. Factor that in with the fact he has less than a year service time, and he could develop next year into a great #3 for the freakin league minimum. Normally I would agree that Salty is worth even more than that...but the Braves have McCann...and I know they could play Salty at 1st...but they can find a lot of guys to put up numbers at 1st...

[Teetz]

beauhoopman you are correct, the Marshall and Marmol for Salty trade ideas are stupid. As a Cubs fan, there is no way I would trade Marshall AND Marmol for Salty.

I guess a 6'6 lefty with less than one year of service time and high whiff rates is not a very good trade commodity. Surely the 120 innings he pitched last season is all the samples you need to effectively predict his future as a bad major league pitcher.

[bravesbeast]

He was a shortstop when he played in cuba, and yes he played short in the minors at Richmond. I personally think that he has the body type of a third baseman, but his body type is also similar to wilson betemit and renteria. All i know is that if we do trade him, a would not mind a bounty that we could hold onto for a few years, instead of a two month bounty like we got out of baez and aybar. My other question is this, would the cubs trade marshall for escobar, I mean the cubs wanted another middle infielder during spring training, the only thing is that I do no know if the cubs want to trade away marshall, as they may need the pitching as much as the braves do.

[Bing_chi_ling]

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070620&content_id=2038291&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

Says here that Cubs got a minor league pitcher. Not an outfielder.

So is this a better deal for the Padres or the Cubs??

[moebarguy]

Ha, Marshall and Pagan or Murton for Salty is a joke. You don't think the Braves could get a front-line starter for him? Or at the very least a top pitching prospect? What does Marshall project to be, a 4th starter? C'mon guys, try to make the offers bit more realistic.

[CubsFan84]

I don't know much about escobar other than what i saw during the Cubs/Braves series. He seems to have a lot of potential, probably more so than the Cubs' current Shortstops Du Jour. Still i don't think that's the direction the Cubs need to go at that position. Teams want consistency from SS and we just aren't getting it.

[oxfrat1665]

The braves can't trade Saltalamacchia until they know if the will be using him at 1B for a struggling Scott Thorman. Also if the braves trade Escobar it will probably be to the Giants for one of their starters.

[Kyle]

Teetz, I think you may be overvaluing your pitching. Yes Marshall is a solid prospect but Salty is a switch hitting catcher, those are valuable. I would think to get the braves to listen it would have to be Marshall, Pie, and another prospect. And if I was the cubs I would do that trade right away.

[beauhoopman]

I never said Marshall was a joke, but I will say go back and look at BA's top 100 prospects or even the Cubs top 10 prospects and show me where Marshall is. Then tell me where Saltalamachia is.
My point is nothing more than this: Marshall is not as highly regarded as you think he is Teetz

[Aduncaroo]

The bowman guy or whatever the Cubs just got is a switch hitting catcher....a lot of value that had. I understand your point, its better than not being a switch hitter.

I am a Cubs fan...but I really think while I might be over valuing Marshall...most probably under value him.

Someone asked what he projects to be...

I bet by next year he would be your #3....hell, he may be ours.

I don't think the Cubs will trade him for anything short of Salty...but you never know with their current "win now" attitude. They stuck to their guns with Pie though...so I'm hoping they do the same, unless they can get Salty, which is very, very doubtful. I am still alright with Rich Hill and Marshall giving us two solid pitchers for the league minimum though...

[Dave]

There are plenty of players in the majors that were not top 100 prospects or highly drafter individuals. Being a highly regarded prospect is a great thing, actually performing in the majors is an even better thing. So far, Marshall has impressed in the big leagues. Salty has done pretty well, too, but not so great that he would even warrant looking at a deal like Pie, Marshall AND somebody else, that's ridiculous, and I'd LOVE to have salty behind the plate.

[WestCoastBias]

Wow!

Kevin Towers pulled off another fast one. I can't believe he was able to do this without giving up a relief prospect. Royce Ring & Andrew Brown are dominating AAA and Hendry would have been wise to demand one of them. Good for KT.

By the way, Roto, I believe the articles mention that the Padres are the ones getting cash considerations in the deal.

[darkstar1661]

Yeah, WOW is about all you can say here... How the Pads got Barrett for nothing more than a struggiling compensation pick and backup catcher is beyond me.

I do have a coupple questions though...

Where is he going to play? Isn't Bard doing great behind the plate? One of them going to start playing the OF? 1B isn't an option so...

And wasn't it Zambrano that pretty much whent after Barrett? I saw it live and the thousands of replays and I keep seeing Z flip out. But on here people are making it seem like Barrett was the problem...

[Aduncaroo]

I agree...I don't think Barrett was a clubhouse problem at all. He had words with Rich Hill...so what...Hill hung a slider, his worst pitch anyway.

Barrett's problem was his defense...and it was a big problem lately. I think he is better than he has shown this year...but it was bad this year.

[Blutarski]

Wow ! 43 comments for a Michael Barrett trade ?

Imagine if the cubs traded Zambozo, the entire internet worldwide would be crashed.

[AkulaMkii]

I also wonder what the Padres are going to do with Barrett. His bat is an improvement over Bard and Bowen though, so I guess when you have the opportunity to get a contributor THAT cheaply you have to jump on it. The only way this possibly makes sense for the Cubs is if they really liked Kyler Burke.

[Teetz]

Pie is a lot more valuable than Saltalamacchia, so whoever thinks Salty can bring in Pie, a top lefty pitching prospect, AND another player is smart.

Sean Marshall has a lot more potential than a 4th starter. He's a tall young lefty that is difficult to hit as his stats and whiff rates show.

Salty is a top catching prospect, but he's not the second coming of Joe Mauer.

Catching prospects aren't as valuable as good young pitching and the contracts given out this last offseason show that.

[moebarguy]

I would say Salty is more valuable than Pie. There are literally tons of OF prospects, but there are hardly any catching prospects -- especially ones that are young, switch-hitters, have power, are good defensively, and are major-league ready.

[Chipper]

You haven't watched Salty play have you. I like Pie, I think he has a lot of speed. But Salty is a great catcher with a very strong throwing arm with a big power bat that has the potential to be a 35 hr, 110 rbi, kind of guy.

[moebarguy]

Even though you are right about starting pitching being valuable, there are plenty of pitchers like Marshall out there, so it's not as if we're talking about a guy like Oliver Perez or Homer Bailey.

[spieldogg]

Good trade by the Pads. While it's not a huge upgrade, it's an upgrade none the less, and the best part about it is that they gave up absolutely nothing and got the Cubs to kick in money. It's no wonder they make the playoffs regularly while the Cubs have been celler dwellers.

I can't wait too see this Pie kid play. From the talk on this board maybe he's the next Willie Mays? But I'm guessing that he will remind me more of Corey Patterson.

And as far as Salty goes.... like it or not, he is one of the hottest commodities (prospect wise) on the trade market. There is such a lack of catching prospects throughout the minors right now. Maybe 5-6 teams can say they have a catcher of the future and that may even be 3-4 years away for some teams. So that leaves 25 or so teams that would love to have him. The Braves will end up getting a handsome bounty for Salty, but most likely he will be the centerpiece of a trade for a proven player.(maybe a front line pitcher or replacement for A. Jones)

[spieldogg]

Good trade by the Pads. While it's not a huge upgrade, it's an upgrade none the less, and the best part about it is that they gave up absolutely nothing and got the Cubs to kick in money. It's no wonder they make the playoffs regularly while the Cubs have been celler dwellers.

I can't wait too see this Pie kid play. From the talk on this board maybe he's the next Willie Mays? But I'm guessing that he will remind me more of Corey Patterson.

And as far as Salty goes.... like it or not, he is one of the hottest commodities (prospect wise) on the trade market. There is such a lack of catching prospects throughout the minors right now. Maybe 5-6 teams can say they have a catcher of the future and that may even be 3-4 years away for some teams. So that leaves 25 or so teams that would love to have him. The Braves will end up getting a handsome bounty for Salty, but most likely he will be the centerpiece of a trade for a proven player.(maybe a front line pitcher or replacement for A. Jones)

[darkstar1661]

Ok teetz ~ how long have people been on Marshalls jock? He has been "a good looking young pitcher" until now all of a sudden everyone is acting like his age, salary and this years showing mean he is the most desirable player in baseball.

Truth is most Cubs fans could care less about him a few months ago. Showing some promice for a month or two doesn't automatticly make you desired by all GMs.

Salty has been highly touted for years, Marshall has been thought of as a good starter for a few months ~ you don't see the difference there?

You don't trade your prized prospect for something that just looks ok at the time just because it fills a small need ~ it would be like the Yanks trading Hughes for Murton.

I mean you yourself have called him a possible future 3rd starter right? Well, would you trade a future All-star catcher for a future 3rd starter?

Nah, Salty can bring something special IF they decided they wanted to trade him and sorry, but that isn't Marshall...

[moebarguy]

darkstar1661 -- well said.

[ptk420biatch]

I disagree darkstar1661, I am a cubs fan and I was upset this spring training that he was out and wouldnt be starting for us. I became a huge sean marshall fan last year, and he does have a lot of upside. Now I realize he isnt as valuable as salty, but salty isnt for sure not worth marshall,pie, and another prospect like kyle tried to claim. And no he isnt worth a front line starter in my opinion, unless its a front line starter on a horrible team.

[ptk420biatch]

I disagree darkstar1661, I am a cubs fan and I was upset this spring training that he was out and wouldnt be starting for us. I became a huge sean marshall fan last year, and he does have a lot of upside. Now I realize he isnt as valuable as salty, but salty isnt for sure not worth marshall,pie, and another prospect like kyle tried to claim. And no he isnt worth a front line starter in my opinion, unless its a front line starter on a horrible team.

[ptk420biatch]

With this barrett trade. It kinda makes me think the cubs will make a run for Bengie Molina. They could make it happen, and san fran is falling faster than they can climb back up.

[nrmax88]

"I never said Marshall was a joke, but I will say go back and look at BA's top 100 prospects or even the Cubs top 10 prospects and show me where Marshall is. Then tell me where Saltalamachia is.
My point is nothing more than this: Marshall is not as highly regarded as you think he is Teetz"

Where was Piazza drafted, how was he ranked as a prospect? Let me ask a question. Who really cares how a guy was projected when he was a kid, whats important is how he is doing now that he is in the show, not how some scouts thought he would do years ago.

"I would think to get the braves to listen it would have to be Marshall, Pie, and another prospect. And if I was the cubs I would do that trade right away."

Lol, says the Braves fan. I hate when stupid people say things like, Pie, Marshall and another prospect, then proceeds to say I would definitely do it. It hugely depends on the last prospect. First of all, I dont think Salty is worth Pie, he might be, but it would be close. Throw in Marshall and another prospect and it makes me think that the inbreeding activity in georgia has hit you and made you a retawwwwdddd. I hear a lot of reports on Pie saying he can turn into the next Beltran. I am not giving u the next Beltran along with young. big left, who is just coming into his own, along with another prospect. It just wont happen. Has Salty's bad 06 been forgotten already? I mean I know he is solid, but he is still just a prospect.

[GlenallenHill]

There are few good catching prospects because like most catchers, they get hurt. Salty is one injury away from being a light hitting 1B. I would pay very little for a catching prospect

[beauhoopman]

Yeah Nrmax, way to bust out the Mike Piazza reference.
Get a grip. The point was nothing more than this: scouts, and GM's have higher regard for Salty than Marshall, and my claim is based on the fact that people that are PAID to rank and evaluate players ALL prefer Salty.

[Chipper]

Apparently, Chicago is too cold for you and it hit your brain if you think Pie is better than Salty. Your so retarded that you can't spell retard!

[GlenallenHill]

Is Steve Avery available? He was a "top prospect".

[darkstar1661]

Ptk,

Let's think about this a little more...

Salty = touted for years as too prospect. Great switchhiting and defensive player. Best catcher on market. Very young and under control for years. Makes next to no money over that time. Plays good at first as well. Clubhouse leader type personaility despite just coming into league. Braves don't need to trade him.

Do you honestly think that is worth someone "huge cubs fans" have liked for about a year?

Now, I'm not saying Pie, Marshall and more for him ~ but it takes a lot more than a 3rd starter and a 4th OFer!

Yes, Salty can bring huge return, something really special and a deal starting with Marshall will never get it done - sorry, but its just the case...

Honestly, Pie for Salty makes since for both teams, Chi doesn't need the OFer as they have and can sign more FAs - they won't find a catcher like Salty on the FA market though. Atl would be getting the cheap plus-OF to replace Jones meaning they could spend their money elseware. If the Cubs want Salty that is probably what the cost would be because nothing else measures up with the Braves needs or the value of the return.

When you don't need to trade someone and that someone is already one of the best players at a very difficult possition to fill then yes, you get a huge return...

[darkstar1661]

Ptk,

Let's think about this a little more...

Salty = touted for years as too prospect. Great switchhiting and defensive player. Best catcher on market. Very young and under control for years. Makes next to no money over that time. Plays good at first as well. Clubhouse leader type personaility despite just coming into league. Braves don't need to trade him.

Do you honestly think that is worth someone "huge cubs fans" have liked for about a year?

Now, I'm not saying Pie, Marshall and more for him ~ but it takes a lot more than a 3rd starter and a 4th OFer!

Yes, Salty can bring huge return, something really special and a deal starting with Marshall will never get it done - sorry, but its just the case...

Honestly, Pie for Salty makes since for both teams, Chi doesn't need the OFer as they have and can sign more FAs - they won't find a catcher like Salty on the FA market though. Atl would be getting the cheap plus-OF to replace Jones meaning they could spend their money elseware. If the Cubs want Salty that is probably what the cost would be because nothing else measures up with the Braves needs or the value of the return.

When you don't need to trade someone and that someone is already one of the best players at a very difficult possition to fill then yes, you get a huge return...

[beauhoopman]

Hey Chipper, the correct word is "You're"....learn it before you knock someone elses grammar.

[Teetz]

The Braves in 2007 are better with Sean Marshall than Saltalamacchia. Also, they would have him for 6 years cheap as opposed to the "frontline" starter everybody proclaims the switch hitting god who posted a.733 OPS last year in a full season of Double A ball last season.

I wouldn't say Salty is a surefire future all-star yet and I definitely wouldn't expect the ridiculous 35 homerun 110 RBI potential somebody posted earlier (no catcher has done that since the steroids era)

[Aduncaroo]

"When you don't need to trade someone and that someone is already one of the best players at a very difficult possition to fill then yes, you get a huge return..."

1)The Braves have been looking for SP for awhile now...it is a need

No one ever said Marshall's ceiling is a 3rd starter. I was the one that metioned it and what I said was that Marshall would probably be the Braves 3rd best starter next year behind Smoltz and Hudson.

I know that Marshall was never the kind of prospect Salty was. But Good pitchers are rarely rated as the top prospects unlike position players. Its a lot easier to judge someone playing defense and hitting the ball then it is to pitch. What was Santana rated before he came into the league? Not comparing the two....but thats probably a little better analogy than the Piazza thing. Prospects are great...but as far as the major leagues...Marshall has actually proven more...and you can't argue with that.

2)If Salty was already one of your best players...why the hell are they not playing him every game in front of McCann and at 1st when McCann catches?? He is good...he is not one of their best players right now. McCann, Jones x2, Renteria, probably Francouer, are all better than him...and I'm not going to bring pitchers into it.

3)Pie has the ceiling of Beltran....Salty has a ceiling of....I don't know...pudge with a lesser arm and defense maybe? Its just that Salty is closer to his ceiling now than Pie...still...be careful under evaluating Pie. His defense will win the cubs 5 games this year over their next best option.

I have to agree that Marshall and Murton\Pagan will probably not net Salty...and probably shouldn't. However, all I'm trying to say is that its something that JS should at least take a look at.

Oh, by the way...

Of all the Cubs young pitchers...Maddux went and told the organization that he was by far the most impressed with Marshall and thought that he should be brought up. He may not be a scout....but would you trust a scout, or Greg Maddux?

[Chipper]

We just got a starter. traded McBride to Tigers for Maroth. Blue Jays just released John Thomson. Braves could give him a second shot.

[Aduncaroo]

I think you guys (the braves) killed them on that trade....but thats the market for RP right now I guess.....WOW.

Whats with all the moves today?

[Chipper]

Everyone looks to correct their roster. I know I was trying to figure out if they switched the trade deadline or something. It's like that when JS only makes mini moves every now and then, but he came through with this one.

[ZachAttack]

Everyone, Sean Marshall is going to be a future ace because he is really tall and throws with his left arm. Also, did you see how many guys he has struck out? I mean, he has a 8.16 K/9 this year!

Okay, enough with the sarcasm. How quickly Cubs fan annoint him with the second coming. Did you guys forget about last year? Did it "slip" your mind?

24 Starts in 2006
6 Starts in 2007

2006: 5.59 ERA, 1.52 WHIP, 6 W, 9 L, 6.13 K/9, 1.3 K/BB

2007: 2.84 ERA, 1.11 WHIP, 3 W, 2L, 8.16 K/9, 3 K/BB

Is it me, or does 1/4 the sample size this year look a lot different than 2006? Come on, get with the program, Marshall is a back of the rotation starter. You may be able to sell him to a stupid GM, but JS won't fall for it.

Sean Marshall Top Comparables:
Spades Wood
Jesse Burkett.

[Chipper]

ZachAttack, just because he's tall has nothing to do with it. Look at Chris Young. He's tall but he's mediocre at best.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

Prospects like Salty don't bring big returns!!! AHHHHH

Andy Marte for Edgar Renteria and cash. He was a top 10 prospect in all of baseball as ranked by BA. Ahead of guys like Prince Fielder, Matt Cain, and Hanley Ramirez. So help me god if any of you geniuses try and claim that Salty because he is a catching prospect has more value than that, just never talk again.

He has less value to the Braves, than he does to other teams because he won't be catching on the Braves. His numbers at 1b aren't nearly as valuable as they would be behind the plate. He is not bringing a top of the rotation young SP as a return, its just not going to happen.

Prospect for prospect trades rarely happen, unless its a change of scenery type of deal.

Marshall if the Braves believe he can turn into a solid #3 would be a good return for him. They will deal him to fill a need. A lesser CF to replace AJ, and back of the rotation starter is what would get the deal done.

Crisp/Kason Gabbard, or Ryan Sweeney type. Maybe Dayton Moore and JS can swing a deal, Dejesus would be a steal. I guess the position they look for all depends on how they feel about Brandon Jones, but he projects more as a LF and doesn't look ready.

"We just got a starter. traded McBride to Tigers for Maroth. Blue Jays just released John Thomson. Braves could give him a second shot."

I cant find that Maroth trade anywhere.

[Chipper]

Scouts.com
blabberinbraves.blogspot.com
chop-n-change.com
take you pick

[Aduncaroo]

does it say Maroth specifically? I see that McBride was traded....but doesn't say for what.

[darkstar1661]

Chipper, he was making a joke... He was commenting on the fact that so far we have heard that Marshall is a good trade for Salty because he is tall, a lefty, been good for 6 starts, cheap, and young.

And Arod...
So youre pointing to
Atlanta getting the best Allstar SS avail at the time at a bargin dollar amount (since Bos ate so much) for Marte ...or...
Boston getting the best avail CF at the time for Marte
As if it somehow proves that a Starter with mixed results in the majors and little expectation outside of Cubs fans is enough for the top ranked Salty?

Huh?

[ArodSucksAtLife]

A .276/.335/.385 SS with 30 errors, costing 5 million a year, for their top prospect, who was considered at the time one of the best in baseball.

They filled a need, with a player coming off a down year but it was their top prospect for two years of Renteria. Now people are trying to say Salty is going to bring 3 to 4 players back, or a top of the rotation SP. When it is much more likely they get Coco Crisp for him. A good player coming off a bad year, cheap that fills a need.

[Aduncaroo]

Also...here are Salty's top comparables...

1 JUSTIN HUBER
2 GUILLERMO QUIROZ

They really don't say, at least on BP, that Salty is going to be all that great. They project him to always be below average defensively.....

[darkstar1661]

Comparables can't really be used because there isn't enough data avail. You can only use projections and the projections say somewhere in the line of Victor Martinez with better Def from my understanding...

Would you trade V-Mart for Marshall/Murton or would you expect more?

~~~ ok looked at PECOTA and they say about 270/350/470 with 20HR & 25DBL using his 2006 ML numbers as the latest influence. Also he never had a OBP less than 348 in the minors which shows an incredible eye at the young age. Even when his BA wasn't great, his OBP was.

And all though Renteria was coming off an off year the fact remains he was still the best SS to be had at the time. And the same goes for Crisp at the time, he was highly rumored to be going to multiple teams because he was in demand. And that is for Marte who hadn't shown anything in the majors to that point. He even looked kinds overmatched in his callup and is still trying to find his stride

But here's the thing, the Dodgers have reportidly offered much more for Salty so obviously there are better options for the Braves than Marshall and a Murton type... So why would they do it? They don't need to and can get much better return...

I mean anytime all of ones teams fans are saying "yeah that's a great offer for a top prospect" it pretty much tells you its extremly lopsided...

[nrmax88]

"Apparently, Chicago is too cold for you and it hit your brain if you think Pie is better than Salty. Your so retarded that you can't spell retard!"

Good 1. I actually am not from Chicago, and I hate the cubs. Doesnt change the fact that Salty is not worth Pie, Marshall and another prospect. Not saying Salty isnt a good player, but he isnt that good.

[nrmax88]

Doesnt the fact that Salty is being blocked by another catcher who isnt going anywhere anytime soon decrease his value somewhat? Sure, they can move him to LF or 1B, but then that decreases his value because he isnt a catcher anymore.

[nrmax88]

"Would you trade V-Mart for Marshall/Murton or would you expect more?"

Thats the stupidest thing in the world. Thats like me saying Carlos Gomez can turn out to be like Carl Crawford someday so we want the same return Carl Crawford would get. Salty may become V MArt, but he is nowhere near that status yet. He has to prove himself for a couple of seasons atleast if you want a return like Vmart would net.

"But here's the thing, the Dodgers have reportidly offered much more for Salty so obviously there are better options for the Braves than Marshall and a Murton type... So why would they do it?"

You have no idea if that is true. Why would the dodgers want Salty anyway. They have a young catcher that has proven himself. Probably the best catcher in the national league. One of the top 3 definitely.

[WestCoastBias]

Back to the trade for a minute, this clearly makes the Padres a better team. Michael Barrett is a definite upgrade over Rob Bowen and allowing Josh Bard to stop carrying the bulk of the load should help his numbers as well. A fresh start with the Padres should be exactly what Barrett needs and I can definitely imagine a contract extension being worked out if he proves himself as a tandem of Barrett & Bard could be extremely effective.

[darkstar1661]

Actually Nrmax, Salty is putting up near identical numbers to VMart RIGHT NOW with SLG being the only thing a little off...

Yeah, you can say any prospect years off from doing it may become like so-and-so, but that's a stretch. Now, when you have a prospect that is said to be like Vmart who IS playing like VMart then you have shown that it isn't a hopeful pipe-dream.

And yes, I imagine his return would be very similar to VMart ~ why wouldn't it be? You get a very similar player with years of control (well, except VMart is a steal at his current dollar cost, but you know what I'm saying) he doesn't have the experence, but he also doesn't have the extra money, age, wear&tear, etc.

How many teams could use a frontline fulltime catcher they could field for the next 5 years on the dirt cheap? Oh, 20-25 or so?

And no, just because he is blocked in Atl it doesn't lower his value at all! It would only be lowered if they had no options on him other than trade him. Since he can play 1st for Atl his value is increased ~ it means they are not forced them to trade him!

But Saltys name keeps coming up in offers because A) everyone knows the Braves could trade him and B) everyone wants him! If almost every GM out there is making an offer for a guy like Vmart at 5yr lg-min it WILL take more than a package of B-grade prospects who are now providing mixed results in the majors.

[ArodSucksAtLife]

"But here's the thing, the Dodgers have reportidly offered much more for Salty so obviously there are better options for the Braves than Marshall and a Murton type... "

I'm sure that rumored offer is b.s.

Russell Martin.

[moebarguy]

Marshall started off good last season too. He slowed down to the point where he was legit terrible. Let's see what his stats look like at the end of the season before saying that he's worth one of the best hitting prospects in baseball.

[Devlsh]

While I realize this site has a heavy Cub slant, Pie for Saltalamacchia only makes sense if the Braves were also playing for next year. People need to take a step back and realize the Braves have no incentive to trade for a player that will help them AFTER Jones leaves; Atlanta is in the hunt NOW. That means if Saltalamacchia IS traded, it will be for immediate help, and that means starting pitching.

[Aduncaroo]

Ok...at the same time...lets wait for a bigger sample size from Salty before you call him VMart. I guess since Marshall is putting up numbers better than Zambrano, it is alright to say he is as good and that he would demand the same value because he is cheap for a long time.

Come on....stop acting like Salty is VMart now...thats just ignorant of reality

[Aduncaroo]

seriously darkstar...

The guy has a CAREER of an entire 25 freakin games with less than 70 ABs....and you are ready to say he will put up VMart numbers NOW?

Lets be serious....go easy on your crush for a little bit.

[Aduncaroo]

And the fact that he can play 1st base makes him a little more valuable to Atlanta than if he couldn't....

but the fact remains that they just don't have a spot for him at his MOST VALUABLE POSITION, making him LESS valuable to Atlanta than he is to another team. Thats just a fact. A bunch of guys can put up solid numbers playing 1st base....few put up those kind of numbers Catching...and Atlanta is NEVER going to be able to find out unless McCann gets injured or traded. That is why he is less valuable there.

[dacubsone]

i guess the cubs are trying to get back to the days of 03 where they had two good defensive cathcers in miller and paco....i mean bako

[darkstar1661]

Adun,

The problem with your Marshall = Zambrano question comes in the fact that no one has ever expected him to be anywhere near someone like Z. Because of that it will take more than a couple starts with production way over his expected for him to be considered anything more than playing above his head at this time.

Salty on the otherhand has been touted to be something like Martinez since like being drafted, and when given the chance he has played like... Well, yep Martinez...

Small sample or not, he IS living up to his expectation RIGHT NOW, and if Atl was to deal him he would be delt based off A) his expected production level and increased because B) it has been shown in the MLs. That's how trades for prospects work.

Oh, and yes Salty is less valuable to Atl, but the fact that they still don't need to trade him remains. Infact, having two catchers who split between 1st and C is actually a great way to keep them both fresh and healthy but that's another topic

Getting back to the point, are you saying he won't bring as much return because he holds so much more value to another team then his current? Isn't that almost always the case in a trade?

And good point by Devlsh; with Atl in the race they are even less likely to trade an important part of their offence as he is proving himself to be. That makes his return need to be even higher as far as the Braves are concerned... And they have never said that they want to trade him from my understanding, so what teams are doing is basicly knocking on the door asking for an important part of the team and they better be willing to overpay in that case.

I really just don't see how you think his return wouldn't be that high though. Honestly, his value is probably more than any pitcher out there because they don't want to trade him and it is so much harder to find a catcher like that then to find even a top pitcher. In all of baseball there are lots of top rate pitchers, but how many backstops can you think of?

[Aduncaroo]

"And good point by Devlsh; with Atl in the race they are even less likely to trade an important part of their offence as he is proving himself to be."

Salty is NOT an important part of the offense....he has played in 25 freakin games! 60 some at bats does not prove he is an important part of the offense.

I didn't ever say he wouldn't bring in as much because he is less valuable to atlanta....I was saying that they would be more willing to trade him because of that. The point I am making is that if they have a need, like a starting pitcher, which they DO HAVE RIGHT NOW, and they have someone that can bring in a good starting pitcher that is signed for at least 6 years for practically nothing...filling that need is going to be more valuable to them than keeping a guy where they can't even utilize him and make him as valuable as he could be. If they could fill that need, and it would be filled for 6 years for almost no money, why wouldn't you trade away an extra part??

I'm not saying they shouldn't get more than Marshall...thats why I was throwing in Murton or Pagan...that way they have an outfielder that can help as well...and worse case scenario you have a guy that can play CF next year if you don't sign anybody and Jones leaves.

I was never saying that it was a perfectly even trade...I just said its something that JS should think about because he NEEDS a SP for today AND the future...and if he believes that Marshall can keep up what he has shown this year....than a deal like this has to make some sense.

[darkstar1661]

How do you think he isn't an important part of the team? Doesn't he already have the 10th most PAs on the team despite being called up only about 1.5 months ago? I mean he's already 5th in BA, OBP and SLG!

And even if we wanted to say he wasn't an important part of the team, again why would they trade him for some pitcher who is playing over his head at the moment?

But under your theory of trading a top prospect for someone who is doing well for the moment and fills a need, I ask this... would you trade Pie for Brian Burres? I mean 2.94 ERA in 52ip both starting and relieving for Balt could translate to filling a Chi need pretty well...

Yeah, that's a great trade, Burres for Pie because Burres will fill the Cubs needs of the moment much better than Pie who isn't playing that well at all and Chi has other OFers who are currently doing better they can play instead... See the point there?

Listen, I know you obviously like Marshall but if him and a 4th OFer is all they really got for Salty then JS should be fired ~ plain and simple...

[Aduncaroo]

"How do you think he isn't an important part of the team? Doesn't he already have the 10th most PAs on the team despite being called up only about 1.5 months ago? I mean he's already 5th in BA, OBP and SLG!"

HE HAS PLAYED IN A GRANT TOTAL OF 25 GAMES!!!!!!

So if he goes 3 for 4 in one game, are you ready to give him the lead in BA, OBP, and SLG???????

I said that JS should assess if he believes that Marshall is capable of keeping up his start. IF HE DOES, then I said he should consider it. Look at the post above. IF HE DOES think that....

Also, the Cubs don't have another potential GG center fielder who has a great arm, covers a TON of ground, steals bases....and was a 5 tool player in AAA. THEY DONT ALREADY HAVE THAT!!! He fills a need for them RIGHT NOW. A bigger need than a reliever\starter...they have a bunch of AAAA guys for that. If Marshall could come in and be your #3 RIGHT NOW....than thats completely different.

[Aduncaroo]

I know they will probably get more for Salty...

I just don't know if it will be as good of a trade if Marshall ends up blossoming and the braves get a starter who is older, more expensive, and only helps out for a couple years. All I'm saying is that if JS can get a guy like Marshall, who can help now AND for at least 6 years in the future, and do it for the league minimum....thats something to think about. Think about....

[Aduncaroo]

Also....I'm wondering what the Cubs fans think of the fact that we almost dumped Izturis, Jones, and Barrett to the Pads for Khalil Green and Bowen. I like the idea of Green at short for the cubs....but I don't think he is any better of a hitter than Izturis...which is scary. Still, would have been really nice to get rid of those two....

[darkstar1661]

"If Marshall ends up blossoming..."

And what do we have to point to this as a possibility? The fact that he’s projected to have an ERA hovering around 5.00 the next 5 years? His Peripheral-ERAs of 5.05, 6.27, 3.50 and 4.15 over his last 4 Minor League stops? His Equivalent BB/K rate of nearly 1/1 in 3 of his last 4 stops up the latter? The fact that he hasn’t been able to make it through a full season healthy the last four years? (finger 04, shoulder 05, rotator cuff tear 06, rotator cuff tear still bothering him 07) ~ Yep, that’s four straight years of missing time with injury and 3 of those were in his shoulder!

Maybe the Braves should just trade Salty for Burres like I joked the Cubs could... He fills the same criteria that Marshall does afterall... (Young, cheap, left handed, can start with a low current ERA in a much tougher league/division and he even provided better production last year albeit in a small sample)

Its just flat out stupid to trade a Top Prospect (weather he has a spot on your club or not) for a B-level prospect who is just pitching well at the moment. Does he have some potential? Sure, but you don’t trade a top prospect for a “maybe he will do ok”… If you just want cheap arms with possible upside you can get them a lot cheaper than your top prospect ~ esp a prospect that nearly every team in baseball is wanting to add to their club!

Oh, and being 10th in PA in only 1.5 Months compared to everyone else being there for 2.5 means that he is getting PAs at a higher rate than almost everyone on the team. Well, if he’s getting PAs at a higher rate than most then wouldn’t he be considered a big part of the team? Also, if those PAs are producing numbers higher than most on the team wouldn’t it show that he is not only playing more often but also producing better than most of the other options? Ok, you don’t think he is an important part of the team because he doenst have as many ABs as the guys who have been there since day one, but that doesn’t make it the case by any means…

[Aduncaroo]

right....so 25 games all the sudden makes him the team captain....come on darkstar, you have to be kidding.

I strongly believe that the Braves are better TODAY with Marshall and Murton or Pagan than they are with Salty. The future depends...but a backup Catcher\1B is much less of a need for them than a SP, especially if he can pitch like a #3 this year. But no one knows if he can. I think its a little more likely than you do...thats fine. I'm just saying...I like Salty...I thought I really liked him, but I don't know if I'm ready to worship him as the next Jonny bench though

[Aduncaroo]

and for as great as you think he is....BP doesn't really project him to be anything great....and they say he will always be below average defensively for a catcher...so I don't know why you are this obsessed with him. I like the guy...but man...easy.

[darkstar1661]

Yes, the Braves are much better off with a pitcher with persistent shoulder problems, questionable minor league stats and 5 nice starts in 07 than their TOP PROSPECT who is only getting an average of about 2 PA per team-game since his call-up while putting up a 122 OPS+…

You want teams top prospects for Sean Marshall just because they could use a starting pitcher and he had 5 starts that don’t match his projections? You really think you wouldn’t be laughed out of every GM office in the league proposing a Marshall for #1Porspect trade?

Dude, its Sean Marshall… :/

SEAN MARSHALL!!!

Top Prospect = Sean Marshall… HAHAHA…

[nrmax88]

"Actually Nrmax, Salty is putting up near identical numbers to VMart RIGHT NOW with SLG being the only thing a little off..."

Okay, what was I thinking. We have seen Salty for about a month, and now he has proven himself to be as good as VMART. You people are absurd. Darkstar, what about you, you clown..... you want 2 top prospects and a young lefty who is pitching lights out right now and is under control for 5 more years. And you only want to give up switch hitting catcher that hasnt proved absolutely anything at the major league level, and he is being blocked by Mccann, everybody knows the braves are trying to move him, anmd he was horrible last year. Your out of your mind.

[nrmax88]

"Come on....stop acting like Salty is VMart now...thats just ignorant of reality"

Its something about braves fans. A good portion of them are really stupid. Guys like bravesbeast and was are good posters, but a lot of the other ones are just eghhhh. Felix Pie has proven himself at the majors, atleast that he can play right now while learning on the job, Salty is doing the same. Pie is projected by most to have a beltran like potential. Maybe Salty will be VMART darkstar. If you are saying that Salty should net a Vmart like return, I am saying Pie has to net a beltran like return. Would you trade Beltran for Vmart? I wouldnt. Would you trade beltran, a young lefty under control for a long time, and another top prospect for Vmart? Helllllllllllllllllll No. This discussion is so stupid. If every prospect was treated as if they were already the player that they had been projected to be, every prospect would be untouchable.

[nrmax88]

"The problem with your Marshall = Zambrano question comes in the fact that no one has ever expected him to be anywhere near someone like Z. Because of that it will take more than a couple starts with production way over his expected for him to be considered anything more than playing above his head at this time."

What does that have to do with anything? So are you saying that if theres 2 prospects, one of them is rated the number 1 pitcher in the minors, the other 1 is rated 145th. They both make the major leagues, and the pitcher ranked 145th dominates while the other falters. Does that make the top rated prospect more valuable then the other guy, because some guys thought at some point that he had more upside? I dont care if every scout that ever lived in the history of the world says that Sean Marshall is going to be the worst pitcher there ever was, if he makes it to the bigs and is shutting teams down then it doesnt matter and those guys look like idiots. Once you make it to the major leagues, all bets are off. Your not gona get a Vmart like return becase a couple of scouts said that he might possibly be like Vmart one day.

"Small sample or not, he IS living up to his expectation RIGHT NOW, and if Atl was to deal him he would be delt based off A) his expected production level and increased because B) it has been shown in the MLs. That's how trades for prospects work."

How in the world do youknow how trades work? Why arent you a gm? I am pretty sure if any team had offered the braves a deal that even resembled a return similar to that of Martinez then Salty would have been gone.

[nrmax88]

"I really just don't see how you think his return wouldn't be that high though. Honestly, his value is probably more than any pitcher out there because they don't want to trade him and it is so much harder to find a catcher like that then to find even a top pitcher. In all of baseball there are lots of top rate pitchers, but how many backstops can you think of?"

Umm, it might be harder to find a good catcher, that doesnt mean it is more important. It really isnt even close in terms of importance. If I had a choice of Salty and Gil Meche or Santana and Henry Blanco i am taking the latter everytime

[darkstar1661]

What? I never said I would trade Salty for anything… (well, I said Pie for Salty was an interesting deal but I didn’t say it as if it was going to go through…)

The only thing I have said is Salty for Marshall & a 4th OFer is just insane… It provides next to no return for what is one of the best prospects in baseball!!! Go back, read all my posts ~ I have never said anything more than “Marshall and a 4th OFer isn’t enough, Salty will bring something special!”

And if you don’t want to think that a prospect that is projected to hit like Vmart who is hitting like Vmart isn’t going to be thought of like “wow, he’s hitting like we figured he would” then I don’t know what to say… Do prospects have to come up do double what they are expected to be respected at the level of their projection?

75PA… its not like a weeks worth of time here and he is hitting how people project him to hit ~ why in the world would that mean they get less return for him?

I don’t care how blocked you think a guy is, I don’t care how long you think he needs to sustain himself in the league ~ when trading a TOP PROSPECT you don’t settle for any random deal that comes along that fills an immediate need with questionable production…

BTW, I'm not even a Braves fan ~ I'm just someone who pointed out that the over inflated infatuation with Marshall is nuts and that he holds no interest around the world outside of Wrigley… Great, he had 5 starts ~ it doesn’t meant you are going to get Hughes, Cano, ARod and Godzilla for him… Marshall for Salty is just a flat out stupid trade, that’s it… if you think Marshall is worth Salty because of his 5 starts then great, but you are not going to talk the rest of the world into jumping onto his jock because of it…

[darkstar1661]

dude, nrmax88 ~ you have issues...

you just trying to go back over every word I said to defend that Marshall for Salty is a good trade for the Braves?

How about coming up with reason it would be a good deal for Atlanta without using:
A) the Braves need SP (since they can get it much cheaper)
B) the 5 starts this year (since we have no clue if he can replicate them)
and C) you’re also throwing in a 4th OFer (that doesn’t make the trade any better of a deal)…

if you can give a strong argument to trade one of the top prospects in baseball without using those three things then maybe it isn’t as laughable ~ otherwise post all the quotes you want but it still doesn’t make it a good trade…

[ZachAttack]

Nrmax88:

Thanks for your generalization of Braves fans. We are all stupid? Thanks man.

"Felix Pie has proven himself at the majors"

Wow, that is just funny. In 125 PA he has a grand total of 28 hits and 7 BBs, but yes, he has proven himself? He has a K/BB ratio of 4-1. You want to call Braves fans stupid, but you say all of this stuff? His average is an amazing .237, his OBP is .278 and his OPS is .668 So please stop posting stupid things on here while trying to bash other people.

"Umm, it might be harder to find a good catcher, that doesnt mean it is more important. It really isnt even close in terms of importance. If I had a choice of Salty and Gil Meche or Santana and Henry Blanco i am taking the latter everytime"

This is funny. You pick the best pitcher in the world and use him in an example. I'm actually surprised you didn't say Marshall. Let me ask you, would you rather take Marshall/Blanco or Saltalamacchia/Meche?

How does having Marshall/Murton help us? Murton would never see the playing field. Marshall had a 5.50+ ERA last year and because he has had 6 good starts, he is now worth the best catching prospect in baseball? Get real.

[darkstar1661]

Ahh, come on Zach…

I thought the “Pitcher A with no expectations throws 5 good games is worth as much if not more than Pitcher B who is projected to be a sure thing who has 5 bad games” theory he threw out was rather logical… :\

Oh and the “Player C who is expected to put up numbers like Player D, that comes up and puts up numbers nearly identical to player D is worth no where near the value of Player D unless he does it for 4 years” thing was intelligent as well; I mean no one would want someone projected to be like Player D who is playing like Player D with the 5 years of control at league minimum for anything near Player D unless they could get Player C without the 5 years of control at league minimum after he proved himself for 3-4 years …

And of course Pie is worth 5 Superstars because he is learning on the job ~ it doesn’t matter if he’s hitting like Rey Ordonez while doing it... That’s the kind of player everyone would want over Player C who is only fulfilling the expectations put on him… Yeah, you really have to get a clue if you think Player C who is fulfilling expectations is worth what those expectations call for in return while thinking Pie who is floundering at the plate isn’t showing himself to be the next Willie Mays…

And although you didn’t actually say anything to the extent, how dare you suggest Zambrano, A-Ram and Hill for Milton Bradley ~ you’re just stupid!

Oh, and just because it was the best part of the whole thing ~ obviously the “all you Braves Fans are morons because I don’t agree with this non-Braves fan on how smart a Marshall/Salty trade is” theory is pure genius showing itself…

[Aduncaroo]

I don't see anywhere where it says that Salty projects to hit like VMart. BP says in the next 5 years he will never hit .275, never hit 20HR, never hit 75 RBI....and always be a below average defensive catcher.

That sounds a lot like Michael Barrett as a little better defender and a worse batting average....

Oh...and what did McCann, who is the BETTER CATCHER project to be when he came out?

You never said anything of Maddux thoughts on Marshall...you guys know a little about Maddux, right? Why did he like Marshall as early as LAST YEAR and say that he is his favorite young pitcher in the Cubs system? I guess you are just smarter than he is....

[Aduncaroo]

I don't think that Marshall is the best young pitcher in baseball. I do think that he will be a #3 starter in 2 years, at the MOST, and he is controlled for 6 years making absolutely nothing. That is very valuable.

I have a question though...who do you guys play in LF? I honestly can't remember, I'm not being a jerk here. I would think Murton could be your LF....or Pagan for that matter, and Pagan could take over in CF if needs be.

You are going to rip me for this comment...but I really think Pagan could be really good if he played every day. This is a side note...its not about his value in this trade, so don't even bother. I just think that if went to a place like Florida, and started...he could be a legit 5 tool player...but thats besides the point here.

Anyway, I know that JS isn't going to make this trade, but what if Marshall continues to shut teams down until the deadline...and Salty isn't hitting all that well for you...I think its worth thinking about.

What about Marshall and the 3rd overall pick in this year's draft? I can't remember his name, but that is interesting...he is considered to be the best hitter in the draft this year.

Thats what Salty's value is to you, just as a hitter anyway. You have a better catcher right now and for awhile.

[darkstar1661]

(((posted this in the other thread as well as I didnt know it branched off into multiple ~ but it should be here really too)))

Adun,

Here, let’s go real slow on this for a minute…

Atl has a great C and another Top Prospect C that projects to be probably better…

20 or so teams have below average catchers or platoons…

The TopProsC can fill other needs for the team and gets into games very often despite having little service time in the majors…

The TopProsC is already hitting at his projections now and of course projects to get better with age…

Although his value to Atl isn’t as high as his value to the Cubs and the other 20+ teams, it doesn’t mean you dump him for anything you can get. His ‘Return Value’ is actually extremely high because of the fact they don’t need to trade him… If they absolutely needed to trade him, why would teams offer as much? That would be foolish… Well, do they have to trade him? Not at all!

And extremely high return value does not equate to a 3rd starter and 4th OFer…

Marshall ~ Pitched very well for 5 games then lost it in his most recent (4IP, 5H, 4ER, 3BB), watching his ERA rise nearly .75 points. Track record includes questionable minor league stats, bad first year and very little in the way of projections. Injured in the last 4 years including 2 shoulder problems which have cost time over a 3 year span…

Murton ~ possibility for power with little to no showing on the big stage…

Pagan ~ no power and injury prone…

The three players you have mentioned would be throw-ins with an upper-level prospect to get a good return; not make a package themselves.

Now, PECOTA made their initial projections for this year as a 250/340/430 like line from Salty because, well he hadn’t produced at the majors yet. When a guy hasn’t shown his ability at the majors yet it’s tough to project a 5 year forecast ~ they can only take 06, make a 07 projection and build on it with the normal learning curve applied. After this years showing you should check their projections once again and see that they will be dramatically different. He currently projects to be something in the way of .270-.280 with 20-25HR and a very good BB rate. He’s already considered to be very polished with the bat despite his young age and is improving quite a bit on defense all the time. But like I said, just wait till after the season and see where his 5year forecast is…

As far as your offer of Marshall/Mutron goes, you may be able to get Hernandez from Balt for that. It would fill the Cubs needs and give Balt more fill-in players allowing them to move some more of the aging vets. They may actually need to include another prospect as well, or maybe replace Murton with someone with some upside, but a deal there could probably be had…

As far as Salty, IF he is traded he will go to a team for a Top pitcher (hence his name in the Buehrle thread as “if CHW can pry him away”) or for a Top Prospect at a different position. Why would anyone expect anything less? Why would Atl accept anything less? If they really did want guys like Marshall and Murton for some reason, they can trade spare parts or lesser prospects and get either them or comparable players from other teams.

Its about demand… Salty has a ton of demand around the league; most teams are looking for a prospect like him. Marshall really doesn’t have much demand, and why would he? Just incase he might be something special like he showed in 5 games before falling back to what we would expect? Its great when your teams players go on a hot streak and you can envision what they might turn out to be and all, but please don’t take those hot streaks to mean that you will be able to trade them for some of the most highly sought after players in the league.

Like everyone keeps telling you, it just doesn’t make sense to the Braves to make a deal like that with the Cubs...

[Aduncaroo]

I am not saying that his value is lessened as far as what he can bring to the Braves....

I am saying that he value TO THE BRAVES RIGHT NOW, as far as wins go, is not very high.

Would you rather have Buehrle for one year, or Marshall and Murton\Pagan for many at near the league minimum??????????????

You can argue which has more "value" with me any day.

Murton has performed at the majors...his career line shows he is a .300 hitter. Who is in LF right now for the Braves?

Pagan is assurance for CF for very cheap for years to come if Jones leaves....if Pagan doesn't do anything special, he is a very good switch hitting plus defending outfeilder who can play right, center, and left. Like I said, I understand what you are saying, and Salty is very valuable.

If JS can do better for now AND the future, he should do it NOW. Salty isn't that valuable to the Braves as anything but a great trading chip. I guess if you were shopping McCann....but you aren't.

Do you know why???? Because he is proven...and Salty is NOT. 25 games show very little, bottom line. If the Braves were that confidant in him being the next VMart...McCann out be out the damn door.

[darkstar1661]

Ok, so you think the Braves should trade him right now and accept scrubs in return for their Top Prospect just because they somewhat help the teams needs ever so slightly today and they will have them for a couple years really cheap incase they are even worth keeping on the team tomorrow…

If Sean Marshall turns out to be a 5th starter at best and Murton is always the 4th OFer he looks like now than you consider that to be a good return for a top prospect just because they get those scrubs for the next 5 years? The Braves could call up guys from AAA and probably get the same results, but oh yeah I forgot that there is the ever so slim possibility that Marshall might actually do a little better than replacement level and work his way up to a 3rd starter and yeah paying the price of a Top Prospect is definitely worth a 3rd starter huh?

Yeah, I heard the Mets are going to trade Martinez for Paul Byrd, and the Cubs are going to trade Pie for Nate Robertson, and the Yankees are hoping for a return like Maguel Batista for Hughes, and the Angels were asking for Edwin Jackson for Brandon Wood and Kendry Morales but the Rays wanted Aybar as well so Anaheim is still contemplating the offer…