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Thoughts On The Cordero Signing
The only thing between Francisco Cordero and a massive four-year, $46MM deal with the Reds is a physical. John Fay notes that the Reds are taking payroll up past $80MM, $5MM more than he'd previously speculated. Might the Reds take it even higher to add a Carlos Silva type? They could always backload a contract, too.
The Brewers have to be annoyed that their two Type A free agent relievers signed with protected 2008 first-round picks. What's worse, Cordero improves one of their direct competitors.
We can talk about Cordero being overpaid, about how he'll earn $165K per inning. But at least the Reds acknowledged that David Weathers isn't the shut-down arm you want in the ninth inning.
The Cordero signing helps, but the team's biggest need remains unaddressed. Reds' starters posted a 5.10 ERA in 2007, worst in the NL. I like Arroyo and Harang at the top, and don't mind Belisle/Bailey/Cueto at the back. Add a solid starter and it's fair to call the Reds a contender. A.J. Burnett could make sense, as a top groundball pitcher who's considered available. And why can't the Reds mix it up for the big names like Santana, Bedard, Blanton, and Haren?
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What about Dontrelle Willis. As a Marlins fan, even I know he could be had for less then Haren, Bedard and Santana right now and if he gets back to being half of what he was in 2005, he'll be an ace for them which will allow Harang and Arroyo to slide into the 2,3 spots and youngsters like Bailey and Cueto into 4,5 with Belisle as a swing man. Seems like a halfway decent rotation and the Reds have always been a good hitting team. Couldn't a package of Joey Votto and a lower tier arm get it done?
Posted by: joegarciajr | November 24, 2007 at 10:38 AM
Cincy should consider moving a package of Hamilton and Cueto to get a young established pitcher like Haren to really make a move in the Central.
Posted by: ozziethesaint | November 24, 2007 at 10:50 AM
Trading Josh Hamilton or Votto is a huge mistake. You're looking at three potential .300, 30hr, 100 rbi guys including Jay Bruce.
Brandon Phillips and Encarnacion are solid right handed compliments.
Why would they even consider breaking that up? Trade Dunn before you trade any of the other five.
And don't even consider trading Cueto or Maloney. Sign a guy coming off injury like Colon to a one year deal, if you can't get another solid free agent starter.
Posted by: bweav44 | November 24, 2007 at 11:00 AM
Tell me how Willis is an ace over Harang, joegarciajr! I've these boards quite a bit lately and I keep reading how Harang is not an ace. Just look at his freaking numbers. And compare those to Willis. I know you were just speculating, but come on, Harang is so underrated, and Willis is way over rated. Imagine Willis' stats in GAP!
I also really don't see the Blue Jays trading Burnett without a decent MLB starter in return.
Posted by: Dont Do That! | November 24, 2007 at 11:24 AM
Burnett for Adam Dunn.
Posted by: Guitar Hero | November 24, 2007 at 11:35 AM
Sorry...Burnett, Towers and Reed Johnson for Adam Dunn and Alex Gonzalez or something like that.
Posted by: Guitar Hero | November 24, 2007 at 11:36 AM
Dunn wouldn't have the value someone like Hamilton would have to the A's. and Haren is one of the few young aces on the market. Cueto may be be a really good pitcher in time, but with Haren, Harang, Arroyo, and Bailey, you have a formidable front 4 SPs that could be one of the best rotations in the NL with Cordero behind them, and a great offense.
Posted by: ozziethesaint | November 24, 2007 at 11:52 AM
I say keep the prospects. Thats probably why theyre spending like they are. Because guys like Dunn and Griffey will probably be coming off the books next season. The obvious play here is to shop Dunn, Keppinger, Hatteberg and Hopper for pitching prospects and a young SS. How about Philly or Milwaukee as a possible Dunn suitor? They should wait and see if the Yanks trade Cabrera though and if they do let them bid on Dunn.
Posted by: trek81 | November 24, 2007 at 11:56 AM
HUGE deal for the reds...people are complaining about how he's not worth the money...as a lifetime reds fan, i dont even care if he's not worth the money...this is the reds biggest aquisition (in my opinion) since Griffey....that has given reds fans a sign of the clubs willingness to compete...
I know there arent details out on the contract yet..but i wonder if this one is not backloaded as well...
Would love to see the reds acquire 1 more decent RP and a decent starter....but if or when they do...I'm sure I'll hear about how they overpaid.....however if the reds are willing to spend any $$$ I'm happy with it....Reds Fans get out to the ballpark this year and watch the games!!!!
In regards to reds possible trade candidates and player trash talk ive seen:
Hamilton
-Love the guy, and wish him the best..but in order for the reds to be able to get some oof the names ive seen he would need to prove he can stay healthy a lil bit more....I love the guy, but his past lifestyle may cause future injuries we don't know about...great story regardless and I hope he stays with the reds for years
A. Dunn
-Love this guy too, has remained fairly faithful despite Reds fans not showing the guy the respect he deserves...I believe I remember seeing he can't be traded til June 15th regardless since his option was picked up..and then only to a list of 10 teams or something??
Bruce-
THe guy looks outstanding...I highly doubt he will be traded in the next 10 years
Phillips-
Great Player, Got robbed out of the GG this year at 2B....has went on the record to say he wants to be what Barry Larkin was for the club....I dont see him going anywhere
Freel-
Good trade candidate...but what can he really bring in a trade?
Keppinger-
Showed signs of ability to compete, but I don't think he would bring much via trade.
Hopper-
Same as above...had a great rookie season when he played, but I don't think hes proven enough to bring much in a trade
A. Gonzalez-
I don't know what he could bring, but he has a decent price tag that could be shopped and allow somne players to get some extra playing time while slashing salary space.
Griffey-
If the reds arent competing, I see him being traded at the trade deadline.
Harang-
People really get out of here, theres no denying how good he is. He is an ace and best SP the reds have had in the last 20 years. Forget how good I personally think he is...you can't deny the fact that he is one of the top 10 pitchers in the NL...that alone makes him an ace.
Stanton-
Waive him, trade him for BP balls, whatever it takes....
Hatteburg-
I think he'll get traded...not sure what the needs are at 1B, but the reds had to pick up his 1.85 million option..it was a steal.
Encarnacion-
He has an upside and if he can bring a big pitcher maybe throw both him and Votto together to bring someone in...I don't know what it would take...but both of these players have huge upsides
Tons of players i didnt mention here...but jsut a few things i think about the reds..
Posted by: cincy_11 | November 24, 2007 at 12:55 PM
"Tell me how Willis is an ace over Harang, joegarciajr!"
I get sick of this Willis is overrated bull crap. The guy had a bad year but he's not like the guy is a Kip Wells type of castoff. He can still pitch and has shut alot of good teams down in alot of big situations over his career.
Who cares if he's the ace of if Harang is the ace. We all know Bailey is the future. The rotations get all out of whack during the season anyways so who is called the ace on opening day is just splitting hairs. The idea is for the Reds to get the best 5 guys out there and I was merely making the point that Willis might be a better fit for them in terms of lower cost then the others mentioned above.
Also on the plus side, once Griffey and Dunn leave next year, is anyone outside of Cincy gonna even know anyone on the Reds? If nothing else, Willis is exciting and fan friendly and he knows how to get his teammates going, something the Reds seem to lack lately. He would instantly be the face you put to that franchise. Not saying they will make a trade based on that but it's certainly an added plus.
If the Marlins do indeed trade Cabrera for Mathis, Willits, Kendrick and Adenhart. The leaves the Marlins with only SP and possibly 1B to upgrade which could match up well with the Reds. I don't see why a trade of Dontrelle Willis and Mike Jacobs for Joey Votto, Matt Maloney, and an lower level guy like Travis Wood couldn't work well for both sides.
Posted by: joegarciajr | November 24, 2007 at 01:15 PM
I think trading Joey Votto would be very foolish. This kid has been the best player in all of minor league baseball over the last two years. He could easily be an all star first baseman year in and year out and he can flat out hit. Breaking up the young nucleus of him and Bruce for any reason would be a mistake. Shopping Hamilton would be fine if it brings in a starter who isnt over 30 years old.
Haren would be amazing, but Im not sure that the Reds have the pieces to make a move on Haren. Maybe Cueto and Hamilton in a deal for him somehow but just dont see the pieces for him here in Cincy.
Burnett would be a nice option too just because he is a ground ball pitcher and we all know thats what we need here in Great American Small Park.
Posted by: conlo73 | November 24, 2007 at 01:34 PM
Signing Cordero makes the Reds better this year, but I think the Reds would be better off investing that money in Adam Dunn. He's likely gone after this season and has way more value than Cordero.
I don't see the reason to trade Hamilton right now since Griffey and Dunn are likely on their way out of town in the next year (maybe 2 years for Griffey's option). Who plays OF then? And Bruce isn't really a CF'er, but can play there if needed.
Adam Dunn can be traded if he waives his NTC. He would likely have to be offered a good long-term contract. I don't even want to speculate what Dunn is worth, but I think a 4-5 yr contract would make him happy.
Trade Hatteberg to open up playing time for Votto and build for next year with a Harang, Arroyo, Cueto, and Bailey rotation. That would be very good to go with a very good offense. Pretty competitive especially in the NL Central. They should be competitive this year.
Griffey has a NTC. There's a chance he waives it, but I doubt he is moved.
Whatever they do they should keep the nucleus of Bruce, Votto, Cueto, Bailey, Harang and Hamilton together. These are the guys that can take the Reds to the next level.
And they should not sign Silva. He's a good choice on some teams, but not the Reds. That would be a bad contract for them.
Posted by: kab21 | November 24, 2007 at 02:45 PM
Its very very easy for hitters to contribute in GABP. I think trading one of Hamitlon, Votto, or EE would be helpful if it brought in a quality arm to compliment Harang, Arroyo, and Bailey.
The Reds have some good pieces that could be moved, and a rotation like that could easily let them compete in the Nl Central.
Posted by: GmblngPtchr20 | November 24, 2007 at 05:26 PM
brewcrew12333 how do i sign up for a team?
Posted by: GmblngPtchr20 | November 24, 2007 at 06:32 PM