Yanks Dragging Feet With Posada, Discussing Crede

With A-Rod gone, I don't see Damon leaving (although I'd rather see Matsui be traded). They might have Matsui at DH, Damon in LF, and Giambi at 1st with Duncan in case of injury for all 3.

Crede, if he puts together a decent(2006-esque) season is one of the few players I think Kenny would swallow his pride and negotiate with, even with Boras as his agent.

That said, I hope they don't trade him, especially for a guy like Damon who's quickly approaching the tail end of his productive years. If Kenny's serious about winning next year, Crede stays put. We've already had a rebuilding year, we're too rich a team to have two in a row.

The Yankees aren't dragging their feet on Posada. Word from Peter Abraham is that the Yankees asked to meet with him and he requested the meeting to take place next week.

"If the Yankees want Crede, they'll have to give up Melky, Cano, or one of their young stud pitchers."

lol. Why? He has a lifetime .259/.305/.446 career line. 3B with a career OPS of .750 dont usually net stud pitchers in deals. Or young superstar calibur 2B either. Johnny Damon has one below average year and suddenly he isnt worth Joe Crede? This is a joke. If I was the Yankees I would hold onto Damon. He is a good leadoff hitter, who cares if his production is below average for a LF,it wont be below average for a leadoff guy.

Damon for crede is an absurd proposition

Flat out

The ONLY people in favor of that deal would be those associated with the yankees

you can spout off his career statline all you want, but it's misleading. he won the silver slugger for 3B his last full season (even if ARod should have won), and he provides gold glove caliber defense. He's also entering his prime, will have a healthy back for the first time in years, and has a legit reputation as a clutch producer.

Oh. Good lord. The Silver fucking Slugger. Okay, youre absolutely right. Hughes, Joba, Cano for Crede? I dont know though, they might need more for the silver slugger.

Don't forget, a "reputation as a clutch producer" - will you guys take Joba, Hughes, and Cano for him?

I actually dont know what you're talking about. I dont any talk of OBP anywhere. Maybe some talk of OPS, which would make sense since it is the most important stat used to rate a hitter (still not without its flaws), that doesnt take into account team stats like RBI's, R's, etc. I would rather have Damon then Crede. If you want to bring up the clutch arguement palehose, Damon is pretty clutch. A big time playoff performer.

is it impossible to have a decent debate without people taking things personally and intentionally twisting the points you were trying to make? grow up.

I am not taking anything personally. I dont like the Whitesox or the Yankees. It is absolutely absurd to expect a stud pitcher for a guy that has a career ops of .750 and has chronic back problems, and has played his whole career in a park that is as hitter friendly as they come.

and for the record, i actually wouldn't mind a damon/crede trade if the yankees threw some money in. i wouldn't want damon in CF, but LF would be a good fit.

"is it impossible to have a decent debate without people taking things personally and intentionally twisting the points you were trying to make? grow up."

You don't read these threads much, do you? Red herrings and strawmen abound.

A year of cheap Crede for a ridiculously overpaid corner outfielder? Yes please if I'm the Yankees. I don't even need to look at their stats.

"I don't even need to look at their stats."

Ozzie?? Is that you?

But are you willing to throw in like 5 mil...cause I think thats what it would take...

Good litmus test for a random trade proposal is whether both sides' fans think it's unfair to them. If so, it's fair.

That said, Damon for Crede was pure speculation by me. Tell me who's fair otherwise from the Yanks, I'm listening.

I agree with rype. I say the Sox bite the bullet and stunt Fields' growth despite Crede blatantly scewing over the White Sox. Unless you can get market value now. If Crede is good at all for the Yankees they can afford to re-sign him, so it doesn't matter if it is a one year deal. I like my Brett Gardner and a prospect proposal, but I still think Melky Cabrera makes loads more sense than Damon for the White Sox.

I say Crede goes to the Mets and moves Wright to 2B ;)

Those who are claiming the White Sox should be getting Cano, Melky or young pitching for Crede have gotta be kidding themselves. The guy just had back surgery, Kenny Williams has no leverage to get a anything significant for him. Best way to go would be to wait until spring training so other teams can see if his back has made any progress. Otherwise, Kenny ain't getting much of anything for Joe.

"2007 Damon: .270/.351/.396
2006 Crede: .283/.323/.506"

If your using Crede's 06, its fair to use Damon's, too, when he hit .285/.359/.482

"No way Kenny Williams trades Crede for Damon, even if the Yankees pay half of Damon's salary.

He has shown in the past that he won't trade players for crap just to trade players (Buehrle, Dye). He'll start the 2008 season with Crede at 3B before he makes this deal.

If the Yankees want Crede, they'll have to give up Melky, Cano, or one of their young stud pitchers."

HAHAHAHA!! Kenny Williams has done absolutley nothing to show "he wont trade players for crap" In the last two years he has acquired Jim Thome (way past prime, decline of career), Andrew Sisco (AAA), Nick Masset (AAA), and David Aardsma (AAA). He's traded Aaron Rowand (All-Star), Chris Young (ROY candidate and should have been Rowand's replacement), and he allowed the most prolofic player in White Sox history to walk away for absolutley nothing.
This trade parrells the Rowand/Thome trade to the T. Rowand was an outstanding defender who can do all the little things the Sox are missing while Thome hits HRs and thats it. In this deal, Crede is entering his prime and is already established as a top 5 3B in the MLB while Damon is on the downside of his career and his production will continue to decrease. Make this trade, and enjoy 4th place and barely a million in attendance this year K Dub.

The uncertain status of Crede's back leaves him with minimal trade value. What some folks don't understand is when you have pretty major back surgery, who knows what pop in your bat or what range you may have lost from the injury. Sure he's been cleared to resume baseball activity, that doesn't mean he'll be able to contribute like he did in '05 and '06.

Damon's been playing injured for far too long and it's finally catching up to him.

Buyer beware. Damon's health is way past warranty.

Johnny Damon:
Pre-Allstar break: .683 OPS
Post-Allstar break: .814 OPS

Injuries in the first half hurt his season. Once he was given some regular rest and moved from centre field, he was close to his old self. Remember, in 2006 he hit 25 hrs. If someone asked me, who will have a better season next year, Damon or Crede, I'd say Damon every time.

As a Blue Jays fan, I would do Glaus for Damon straight up no questions asked. Damon gets a lot of stick because he can't throw, but in reality, he's still a pretty good player.

"If I traded him to the Yankees, i would go after either Ian Kennedy OR Melky Cabrera."

I think you're mistaking Crede for a good player.

Yankees should do one of the following:
(1) Get Hudson, Cano to 3rd
(2) Make a big push for Headley (a deal centered around Igawa, along w/ others).
(3) Get Crede only if he can be had for nothing.

Crede has far more upside than a 34yr old pus arm outfielder.
If they're serious about trading Joe Crede it should be to LA for Scot Shields. Maybe package Crede and Garland for Shields and Reggie Willits.

The Yanks owe $26M to Damon. As one of the biggest stat nerds around here, I can tell you that I don't need to look up those of any pre-free agency player for Damon. Done deal. For anyone.

It helps that Crede plays good D, a position that the Yanks need, and can hit a little. Sure. But I'd trade Damon for Aaron Miles.

"Crede is entering his prime and is already established as a top 5 3B in the MLB "

I am not even sure whether this is necesarry, because people have probably already ripped that post apart, but when I read it I just scrolled to the bottom to react.

Let me just start by saying.
David Wright
Miguel Cabrera
Ryan Zimmerman
Chipper Jones.

Maybe you meant he would be a top 5 3B in the NL east? Albeit he would be number 5, but top 5 nonetheless.

To continue.....

Ryan Braun
Aramis Ramirez
Scott Rolen
Edwin Encarnacion
Garret Atkins
Alex Rodrigeuz
Mike Lowell
Troy Glaus
Alex Gordon
Adrian Beltre

I think that is 14 guys I just names that are clearly better then Crede. Those are just the guys that are hands down better, not even the guys that you can make an arguement for.

Joe Crede? Top 5 3B in MLB?

Arodsucksatlife is hilarious.

Its fairly obviously NRMax is a Cubs fan putting the 0-for A-Ram abovev Joe Crede as a 3B. And Ryan Braun who wil be an outfielder b/c he is a below average fielder. Alex Gordon?? Encarnacion?? Rolen and Glaus and Beltre?? All steroid freaks. Zimmerman's good but not better than Crede. I cant believe you didnt include Casey Blake or Brandon Inge. Hell in your world Nick Punto is better than Joe Crede at 3B.
And as far as Cabiness, the almighty whitesox.com message board "God" GET OFF THOMES DICK! The guy is worthless.

The best year of Crede's career was less that Aramis Ramirez' career average.

Look things up.

Congratulations you've now been owned by a Red Sox fan(me), and a Mets fan(Nrmax).

Your team is awful, getting crede off of it and Damon on to it would be hugely beneficial to you. Not to the Yankees, it would benefit me cause the Yankees would be a worse team.

Crede and Podsednik off, Damon and Fields on. Better team......

Now if you can't follow this logic, please go put your time and effort into becoming a die hard curling fan because baseball is too hard for you.

GoGowhiteSox, I'll reiterate that those trades for "crap" players weren't exactly how you are making it out to be. The trade of Rowand made sense at the time, since Kenny thought he had another CFer ready to play, and he was picking up a huge bat. He got the bat he wanted, but the CFer didn't work out. If they would have stuck with Anderson, they probably would have made the playoffs in 06 as Mackowiak cost them at least 5 games in the OF that year, but who knows.

With Aardsma and Sisco, it was basically crap for crap, and Aardsma wasn't the only one we got in the deal, supposedly Carlos Vasquez did pretty well in the minors, and what did Cotts do for the Cubs? Gload wasn't going to see any playing time with the Sox last year, so who cares? With Massett, you forget to mention Danks, so maybe 1 player turned into crap, but that wasn't who the trade was centered around. While KW did trade Young away, once again, he thought he had depth with Anderson, and he did get a pretty good pitcher in return. And it's not like Young lit the world on fire, he had power, but his average was no better than Anderson's rookie year, in which he couldn't even get onto the field 2 days in a row.

You act like they let Thomas walk away because they didn't want to sign him. He had a $12 million team option that they declined, if they resigned him, it would have been at a minimum $10 million. Would you be willing to put that much money into a guy who hadn't played 162 games total in the previous 3 years, and only 1 full season since 1999? I wouldn't, they made the right decision in letting him walk, he got a $500,000 contract for 1 year to show he could play again, there wasn't any way the Sox could have signed him for that.

I'm suprised with your "bad" trades, you didn't throw in the Gavin Floyd trade.

I'd think being an Ortiz fan, you'd be big into clutch.

Ok, so Crede comes through when it counts, and doesn't pad his stats when it doesn't, like Aramis. Where did Aramis go when Lee went down in 06? Where did he go during the playoffs this past year and 03? Maybe it's the same as all the A-Rod hate, he doesn't do anything when it really counts.

Arod sucks, it takes 2 seconds to look this up: he's projected at a .270 EqA next year.

By any definition that is "hitting a little." At a neutral position, above league average is OK. Throw in the defense and he's a decent player.

Thats it, you are a complete moron.

My team just won the world fcking series I'm really devastated that Johnny Damon wasn't on the roster.

He even falling apart is a better baseball player than scott podsednik.

Joe Crede is NOT a good baseball player. Trading him away and letting Josh Fields take his place is good for your team.

"My best guess remains some kind of Johnny Damon swap where the Yanks eat money."

This is where this all started from.

Joe Crede is going to go to arbitration after earning 5 million dollars last year. If you can swap him and his increased salary for Johnny Damon with the Yankees eating enough dough, so that his AAV is the same? How in the name of anything even remotely holy do you not do that?

"He is not that good and the Red Sox have been better since they dropped him and the Yankees have been worse since they picked him up. So why would the White Sox be better with Johnny Damon?"

The Red Sox have won a world series since he left and the Yankees haven't so your leap of logic is that its Damon's fault? I thought all things wrong in the Bronx were A-rod's fault. I'm confused.

"And by the way how was I owned by someone who thinks Edwin Encarnacion is better than Joe Crede?"

He is better than Joe Crede.

24-.800 OPS
29-.750 0PS

*To say that he isn't a good baseball player hurts me a little bit as a baseball fan

"Thats it, you are a complete moron."

I take this back, because I realize you are doing what you accused me of doing. You are defending a player on your team from what you consider an outsiders attack.

I don't believe in accuracy of defensive matrixes, they are far more subjective than hitting statistics. However Joe Crede's Gold Glovedness or whatever, don't make him a good player. He may very well be an average player, but that still ranks him lower than David Wright, Miguel Cabrera, Ryan Zimmerman, Chipper Jones, Ryan Braun, Aramis Ramirez, Scott Rolen, Alex Rodrigeuz,
Mike Lowell, Troy Glaus and Adrian Beltre without question.

I still stand by the fact that trading him for Johnny Damon straight up improves the White Sox for next year without the shadow of a doubt, and I think any intelligent baseball fan who isn't a die hard White Sox nobody else can compare fan can acknowledge that and would make that trade, especially considering the salaries involved.

I've seen about 5 posts with Damon & Crede's career numbers, but look at their last full seasons:

2007 Damon: 757 OPS
2006 Crede: 829 OPS

Add to that Crede's premium defense and it's NOT a foregone conclusion that a swap will make the White Sox better. Both are injury risks, so anything can happen, but this is not the clear win for the Sox everybody is making it out to be.

Also, Damon really can't handle CF anymore, so the Sox would essentially be trading Crede for a LF, when they could probably get a better LF in other trades or free agency and use Crede to get bullpen help.

I stand by my claim that KW will NOT make this move.