Cubs Interested In Bedard?

There's no way this deal gets done without Hill going the other way and that doesn't really solve any of the cubs problems. All that would do would be create a whole at another position in order to slightly upgrade another.

If the Cubs could get Bedard, they become the favorite in the NL. A top of the rotation of Zambrano, Bedard and Lilly would be hard to beat.

MLB Trade Rumors: If a marquee player is available, the Cubs are involved.

Put Brian Roberts in there and O's can have ALL those guys. That's a good deal for both sides.

cubsbaseball, Hendry tried to get Bedard two years ago. I think he is still interested.

As an Orioles fan, I'd be pretty happy with something like

Bedard
Roberts
Walker
Payton

for

Pie
Gallagher
Colvin
Murton
Marmol
Patterson
Cedeno
Veal

The orioles don't get a can't miss offensive prospect, but that trade would quickly restock the team with young talent. The cubs would easily be the favorites in the central.

unbiasedrumorswouldbenice - 1) What makes you think Tim is anything less than a professional writer? There are cubfans on here in great numbers so there will always be cub rumors in just about every thread - deal with it or begone
2) Rumors are exactly that - rumors - someone finds a hypothetical trade or signing and passes it along. Whether is is totally fabricated or legit in its basis rumors have to be biased at some point since they are started by people - and people are biased no matter what they say.
3) Please feel free to toss in a link to your professional unbiased site or the rumor site you have found that has no rabid fans discussing their teams fantasy trades - sounds like a great read ( like a textbook I would imagine)
4) I think you owe Tim an apology the man does damn fine work and alot of it - to infer he is not professional because he adds a human touch like asking his readers for cellphone advice ( to better keep the site up to date thus relevant)is silly and assinine. In my opinion anyways

...Rich Hill might be a nice addition for the Os but they would need more...but the CUbs seem to think he's a keeper no matter what...and the Os already pulled off a quantity trade with Tejada which is the only other alternative to match the other proposals supposedly on the table...by making another quantity trade of close-to-ready players starts to create a serious logjam everywhere (tho not a "terrible" problem to have)...

...Cubs Bedard rumors makes little sense to me unless the Cubs are willing to give up a pretty substantial package that cleans out the farm...I doubt there is anything serious behind this...the Cubs should have pulled the trigger on the trade offer of a couple years ago for Bedard when his price was lower but Cubs fans seem to have thought he was a throw-in at that time next to Tejada...

Easy trade, good for both sides. Even the money is right.

Cubs get:
Erik Bedard
Brian Roberts

Orioles get:
Sean Marshall (ML ready LHP)
Eric Patterson (2B)
Ronny Cedeno (ML ready SS)
Matt Murton (ML ready LF)
Ryan Dempster (veteran starter or closer)

Maybe you could replace Dempster with Marquis

Maybe you could throw in another pitching prospect like Sean Gallagher

thats nowhere close to enough. Nowhere close.

Not sure if the O's would actually take this or not, but what about something like this: (trying not to include Hill)

Bedard
Roberts
Hernandez
Payton
-for-
Murton
Pie
Soto
Patterson
Cedeno
Marmol
Marshall
Gallagher
Veal

That may look crazy (it is..) but breaking it down you would have:
Roberts -for- Gallagher, Marshall and Patterson
Bedard -for- Pie, Soto, Cedeno and Marmol
Hernandez and Payton -for- Murton and Veal

I would love Bedard, but as far as untouchable players if I was Hendry I would have Marmol at the top of my list.

Also I don't like the idea of trading Soto for Hernandez. If Soto can even replicate numbers half as good as his Iowa numbers in '07 he'll be one of the top offensive catchers in the NL.

As an O's fan I actually think the Bedard part isn't enough, much less too rich.

Would you rather have Adam Jones, Morrow and Wladamir Beletin or Pie, Soto and Marmol? That's not really even close favoring Seattle.

You can never have enuff good prospects but it doesn't make sense to trade for Soto when we have Weiters already in tow...and Weiters is a better prospect...

...right now I think this sounds vaguely familiar to the Erik Bedard Trade Rumors with the Cubs Part I...mainly cus the Cubs fans here don't seem to value Bedard enuff to trade their best prospects, much less a package that includes several of them...other organizations with better farm systems are offering up their elite prospects and throwing in additional top prospects...here we're hearing quantity trade proposals of players with limited ceilings, but no real star potential...

...anyways, as far as the trade proposal by OsFan, I'd have to say that that doesn't look right from a Cubs standpoint either...Hernandez's trade value is at a low...he might be able to bounce back from a nagging injury year and be a quality backstop but his value is low right now...

"here we're hearing quantity trade proposals of players with limited ceilings, but no real star potential."

Pie's ceiling is Beltran. He had over a .900 OPS in AAA last year...he is a very, very high ceiling prospect, he is just raw tools right now...but there are 5 of them.

Marmol is K-Rod in the making...I would say thats star potential...but maybe you don't agree. Soto can be a star as far a catcher goes, but he needs to prove he can do it in the majors before anyone takes him completely seriously. I think he will though.

That being said, I actually think your package is about right, which is why as a Cubs fan I would say to let Bedard go. As nice as it would be to have him, I would rather keep our starting CF, C, SP, and RP for next year because they are all getting paid the league minimum and believe it or not, could be stars.

Though for the record I am not saying any of the guys being discussed is trash at all. Pie and others are quality prospect/players. I am just saying that to match any of the offers on the table from the Dodgers/Reds/Seattle is a stiff order. And, even though these might be the best the Cubs are willing to deal, the ages and cielings don't quite add up. For instance, one day maybe Marmol becomes one of the top 3 RPs n the league, but that makes little difference to a losing team who is getting blown out in the 4th due to SPs learning on the job. The key to an Orioles trade I believe is offering young quality players who can be part of a core 3 years from now at the soonest, not leaving the team or plateauing by then.

"mainly cus the Cubs fans here don't seem to value Bedard enuff to trade their best prospects"

Sorry, you don't get our best prospects because Bedard put together a dominant five months where he overextended himself and got injured.

Bedard would be great, but gutting the farm for him is not a smart move. Guys like Pie, Hill and Marmol (2 of 3 or all 3 would be in that package) really look like keepers. Forget the thoughts of a Murton, Gallagher, Cedeno type of wish, pipe dream. It won't fly! I don't drink Cub juice through goggles. I am in the minority and no disrespect to Bedard. I would not do it if I were the Cubs. There are other teams more loaded that can take the hit.

I understand about relief pitchers...and if they are deciding between trading Marmol or Hill, I would trade Marmol for that very reason. Talk about selling high...he barely has any service time and is cheap for years to come....but, I'd still rather keep him unless he was the centerpiece for a legit #2 SP or something...and obviously a #1. But if you are including a Soto, or a Pie, or a Hill, I think its a bad call and will hurt for a long time. But I think we essentially agree...nice posts.

"Hill will be 28 with one season of MLB under his belt."

Thats a good thing! We have him in his peak years for almost nothing!

You HAVE to include Marmol in that group...you just have to.

Bedard was leading baseball with 220 Ks in about 180 or so IP.

What happened to the plan for Wieters to play 1B, did they change their minds?

Weiters was never planned to take 1B. He's a C candidate all the way. You must be talking about their other #1 pick C prospect, Brandon Snyder, who has moved to 1B and performed well in the AFL after a strong bounce back year from injury in 2007. Wieters has not played in the regular '07 year. He did tear through the Hawaiian league though, and, all reports on him have him being a plus defender behind the dish with a plus plus arm. There are some scouts who thinks he will eventually be too big to be a C, but then again, Joe Mauer is the same type of C frame-wise.

I agree that it can be a good thing. But, it could mean that he's not really that good and that MLB hitters will catch up with him.

I'll bet its somewhere in the middle and how he pitched last season is how he will pitch for the next four years or so.

My god! Cubs fans (I am often embarrased to say I am one) need to get a grip on reality. Sean Marshall, Eric Patterson, Matt Murton, Ronny Cedeno, Ryan Dempster, etc. are not high on other teams wants list. Most of this list cannot even start on the Cubs current team.

I agree. Huge Cubs fan, and Hill and Pie are not even enough for the O's to think about...they are already being offered more. It would be dumb for the Cubs to try and match these offers from teams like the dodgers, Reds, and Mariners because they can do it with a couple of players. If we did that, we aren't hurting our farm, we are hurting the CURRENT TEAM! We can't trade our starting catcher, #3, (who will probably be the #2 by next year) SP, and starting CF...or RP for one guy. These guys are ALL going to be big parts of our team for the next 5 years and for next to nothing financially. THERE IS NO MATCH HERE PEOPLE, IT JUST DOESN'T WORK.

You are joking, right? No, no seriously now, that was some great comedy right there.

A proven major league No. 2/3 guy and a CF prospect for a CF prospect with worse defense and worse offensive minor league numbers, for reliever prospect, and a catcher/1B prospect who also has minimal defensive skills?

You are out of your mind pal.

Basemonkey, I wasn't saying Bedard is bad, just that he doesn't have a sustainable K rate and I don't want the Cubs to pay $1.20 on the $1.00. Bedard was a great pitcher this year, but take away some of those Ks and his numbers aren't quite as good.

Bailey and Votto is a joke for Hill and Pie.

Hill has is an established No 2/3, Bailey has established that he can suck at the MLB level. Votto is two years older than Pie, Pie had better numbers at Triple-A this year, and Pie plays a premiere defensive position while Votto plays 1B (dime a dozen). Even if the Reds offered Bruce, it wouldn't cut it.

Yeah, you've pretty much made a prima facie case for your own idiocy.

Anyway can write an insult, but few people can back it up. Nice try at a hit and run but you didn't get me. Bruce is better than Pie, but right now Hill is a much better pitcher than Bailey and Votto doesn't project to have good 1B power. He would have good power at any other position, but not 1B.

You guys MIGHT gain in CF, but you lose in the rotation and gain an above average 1B. But hey, you think it's cool to use random Latin phrases so the expectations were pretty low to begin with.

RANDOM-LATIN-PHRASES?!?!

Are you reading the same page as the rest of us? This thread is entering the area of the bizarre. I think you're a troll so I'm gonna stop discussing a thing with you. Be good and I wish you well, sir.

"You guys MIGHT gain in CF, but you lose in the rotation and gain an above average 1B."

I can't even decipher what this means.

Anyway, Bailey will be a #1. Its just a matter of whether it happens this year or next year. Hill's ceiling is a #2. Now, with the state that the Orioles are in, do you really think it matters to them if Hill is the better pitcher RIGHT NOW?

Bruce is the best prospect in baseball. THE BEST. Pie can't compare.

This conversation could only happen if one side was a Cubs, Red Sox, or Yankees fan. Ridiculous.

Here we go again, truecubsfan flys off the handle whenever someone questions his opinion or someone suggests that the cubs prospects arent as good as others.
you need to lay off your cubs juice, its driving you nuts.

Hmm, I just wrote a couple of paragraphs on Aduncaroos stance on leaving Bedard alone, instead of epmtying out the whole Cub system. I agree in theory with him, because the Mets have similar guys with high upside but that are raw. For some reason, typekey considered my post comment spam. Awesome. And Trober... yeah thats truecubsfan for you, when we were dabating the Mets and Cubs systems, I asked him to give me a little scouting report on the Cubbies and he said something like I was embarrasing my whole family for being so stupid. Lol.

Okay...I usually don't say anything when people get stupid with trade rumors because that's what we all do in the offseason. We try to figure out what can be done to make our teams -and other teams- better. That's cool. However, I've got a problem with people (Cubs and O's fans alike) basically saying that the Cubs should give up an arm, a leg, and two testicles for Bedard. No, they shouldn't.

He's got really good stuff and he's a southpaw. That's great. He's also 29 years old, and he's never pitched 200 innings in a season. Here's another thing:

His 2007 line was really pretty to look at (13-5, 182 IP, 221 K's, 1.09 WHIP, 3.16 ERA). Really pleasing to the eye, but, while I'll admit that his ERA and WHIP have been consistently going down over his career (in a brutal offensive division and league), he's never put up a line like that before. His career line?

40-34, 658 IP, 639 K's, 3.83 ERA, and 1.34 WHIP. Teams give away their futures when their desperate for the present, and most of the time, they get to regret it for a good while after. Bedard is good, but he's not 26 anymore and he's never put up any line like he did in '07. I can see giving up the future for a guy like Santana because he's worth it and every penny he makes thereafter. Bedard's not.

Don't get me wrong...I'd love to see his name penciled in the Cubs' rotation, but not when you start throwing in Hill or Marmol, and then 3-4 other guys that have good ML potential. Nope.

basemonkey- TCF was referring to me saying "prima facie".

he's a little sensitive.

Hill - put together a last year-and-a-half. Quickly proving he's a #3 starter, and possibly a #2. Hill put up sick numbers for a long time in the minors. He got some confidence in MLB, and that took care of the rest. I seriously don't mind seeing him in the Cubs rotation.

Marmol - young, filthy fastball and slider. In his first year as a starter converted to reliever...sick, sick numbers. The only question is his control consistency. You don't come away with a 1.43 ERA by mistake.

Soto - young and unproven, but put up the kind of numbers at AAA last year that give you the chills. Continued his production in his little time in the majors. He's not going anywhere for now.

"Basemonkey, I wasn't saying Bedard is bad, just that he doesn't have a sustainable K rate and I don't want the Cubs to pay $1.20 on the $1.00. Bedard was a great pitcher this year, but take away some of those Ks and his numbers aren't quite as good. "

Yeah man, A-Rod was pretty good this year, but if you take away his home runs and Rbi's, and average, he is just a decent player at the most.

Seriously though, solid point. If you take away Bedards velocity, and his nasty curve, and made him throw with his right hand he would be a scrub. Why would anybody want him.

Another caveat to this is that when he was in his early 20s he was considered the #2 LHP prospect in the game. Right about then he had to go thru TJ surgery. So his first two seasons back were his first two seasons in the majors. He's steadily improved every year but most scouts and coaches consider those years to be suppressed numbers somewhat because it takes a full year to get back the velocity and then another for the same control on breaking pitches. For that reason alone, since those years, Bedard has always been rumored in trade rumors since he has been seen as flying below the radar. The past 2 years is where he has enjoyed obvious success statistically. His peripherals have improved every season since entering the bigs, which is somewhat common for LHPs, even the great LHPs.

His health might be a question but there are some in the Bmore area and organization who have questioned his willingness to push himself. When borderline injuries have appeared (e.g. knee strains) this might account for why he hasn't posted a 200 IP season yet. Then again we might imagine how it might change our perspective on things if, as a ballplayer, we had our whole baseball career thretened to end before it even started at age 20 too...

I am mentioning the above aas to reasons why his value has always been suppressed somewhat and why his IP might be what they are.

Before anyone slams me for mentioning Gil Meche in the same paragraph with Bedard -I wasn't. The two are not even comparable. I was just making a point about the high demand for pitchers.

Marmol is a failed starter who was lucky to even get a shot in the pen last year. His 2006 ML showing of 6.08 ERA, 59 Walks to 59 Strikouts (for a perfect 1/1 rate), 1.688 WHIP and 14HR in 77 IP left nothing to be desired and made most people sick. His Minor League stats of 3.37ERA and 1.26 WHIP also do little to add excitement. Carlos Marmol equals whatever in the eyes of everyone else. Besides, he’s a reliever; a position where the life span of success is about 3 years. He only has 2 save opportunities in his career, blowing one of them. Again, nothing really special to see here.

Felix Pie… A .300/.350/.469 hitter in the minors who hit about .300/.355/.480 between High-A to AAA. That translates to about .270/.320/.430ish at the big stage ~ ie worse hitting skills than Juan Pierre, just with a little pop in his bat. People don’t get excited about Pierre, why would they about Pie?

Sean Marshall is nothing special as a starter. What you get is 12 starts then he falls apart.
2007 we saw Sean go 2-4 5.97 ERA, 12BB to 16 SO, 1.731 WHIP in 31.2IP starting with game 13. Luckily he was yanked from the rotation before he could cause more damage
2006 we saw Sean go 3-5 6.90 ERA, 29 BB to 30 SO, 1.789 WHIP in 58.2 IP starting with game 13
Add to it the fact that he has had 4 straight injured seasons and the last 3 have been for Shoulder surgeries! He also would have a very comparable Minor League record to Marmols 3.30ish ERA and 1.26 WHIP if not for success in Single-A 4-5 years ago. This guy is nothing special, at all. Every team has their Sean Marshall’s bouncing from AAA to the Majors and none of them are held as that important.

I love reading some of the wacky trade scenarios on here. Why dont we just trade jason marquis, dempster, and bring back neifi perez and include him. I'm just joking it would take marmol, pie, hill, marshall, galgher, and cedeno. O's loose a GREAT pitcher but would gain a lot in return. We would gain an ace but cause too many holes. Basically this trade doesn't happen.

By the way... none of this Bedard, Pie, Hill, Marmol, Roberts, Fukudome nonsense is gonna matter one bit as soon as talented guys like Kevin Orie, Bobby Hill, Brooks Keischnick, Pat Cline, Ben Christiansen, Robin Jennings, Julio Zuleta all put it together and make the big leagues.

A Cubs offer of Hill would negate acquiring Bedard quite a bit. They would have to get something else back. Maybe ship Hill out with Pie and 1-2 prospects for Bedard and Roberts. I'd hinge the deal on Hill and Bedard and fill in the blanks afetr that.

It also predicts Soto at:

.291/.362/.487./.849

Yes, you read that right. But I guess he isn't any good, right?

Oh look, its ADun…

Lets see,
Blah blah blah, Bill James, blah blah blah, They will be great, blah blah blah, Bill James, blah blah blah, youre wrong, blah blah blah, look at that one year of numbers resembling success, blah blah blah, Bill James…

Why did you respond to my post ~ nothing you said really with even makes sense, you just rant the utmost best-case scenario in defense of these guys, and repeat the asinine Bill James projections as if its meaningful.

Seriously, Pie = ½ a good year in AAA (his 2rd year there), Soto = 1 good year in AAA (his 3rd there), Marmol = 1 good year as a reliever, Hill = fair numbers and only about 1.5Yrs experience compared to his contemporaries being in the 5-6years experience range, etc… Why you or anyone would be gitty about these guys is beyond me…

Also, please stop posting the same “THE BEST RELIEVER IN ALL OF BASEBALL LAST YEAR” sentence over and over and over and over again ~ he wasn’t even the best last year, and even if he was, it was one year!!! Look at his BB/IP rate ~ its atrocious! Who the F* cares if he had some K’s and a low ERA in the NL-C, he’s a failed starter who always had questionable numbers that happened to succeed in his first year in the pen; he just really isn’t that special…

Oh and lastly:
Juan Pierre 07 ~ .293/.331
BJ’s 08Pie pro ~ .283/.333 (and it’s even an extremely optimistic projection)

So what we you saying about my “worse hitting skills than Pierre with a little pop” sentence? But I guess Beltran and Sizemore usually have a .330ish OBP as well don’t they… Oh wait, no that doesn’t seem right... Yeah, Beltran and Sizemore usually give .350 up to .390 OBP’s ~ so what are you smoking? Really, whatever dude, go be a little bitch elseware…