Angels Discussing Konerko?

UPDATE, 1-10-08 at 9:45am: This one isn't dead quite yet.  According to Buster Olney this morning:

Heard that while the Paul Konerko-Angels talks are not blistering hot now, there is a chance they will get hot sometime in the future.

UPDATE, 1-5-08 at 10:17pm: Kenny Williams said tonight that he hasn't spoken to anyone with the Angels since the Winter Meetings, and that he hasn't had trade talks about Konerko this winter.  Nor has he been asked about his first baseman.

UPDATE, 1-5-08 at 10:33am: Doug Padilla of the Daily Breeze has a source confirming the talks described below.

FROM 1-4-08 at 7:41pm:

Just got a solid tip that the Angels and White Sox are discussing a possible Paul Konerko deal.  No idea how serious these talks may be.

The Angels made an offer to Konerko in the winter of 2005-06, when he was a free agent.  Konerko does have a limited no-trade clause to consider.

Some names being bandied about include Ervin Santana, Howie Kendrick, and Chone Figgins. Of course, all three would not be in the deal. The Sox also seek relief help.  Moving Konerko would mean putting Nick Swisher at first base, while Figgins could be the leadoff hitter the Sox are after.

Comments

[lostinthevines]

Makes perfect sense. Swisher prefers 1B and we all know Owens is starting in CF next year.

Who cares - EAMUS CATULI!

[Positive/Negative]

This is interesting...
But if the Angels can pull this trade off...and not give up TOO much, then this would make them yet stronger. Guerrero, Hunter, and Konerko...three power threats I doubt any pitcher is ever crazy about facing.

[bsox21]

This is good. You have Kotchman, who hits like a girl, blocking Kendry Morales who has mashed multiple levels of the minor leagues and hit int he majors last year...whom u also gave a multi million dollar bonus to.....so what do u do?

Go get Konerko.

Brilliant.

[nic]

I think that a swisher, thome, konerko, and dye middle of the lineup would help the sox win more than anything the angels could offer.

[palehose35]

konerko and crede for ervin santana, scot shields, chone figgins.

makes a ton of sense for both teams.

[Jenks45Monster]

I like Santana, Shields, and Willits or Kendrick.

[gogopalehose]

I have no idea how this would work, but with the talent the Angels could offer it could work.

[palehose35]

- angels get a 3b in crede
- angels get a 1b in konerko

- sox get pitching depth with e. santana (whome the angels have no room for)
- sox get CF/leadoff guy with figgins (allowing swisher to play 1B)
- sox get another good bullpen arm in sheilds (who was replaced as setup man by speier late last year.)

really the only two sure things in the trade are konerko and figgins.

crede is a risk coming back from surgery; shields couldn't find the strike zone late last year; santana fell apart, and US cellular wouldn't be easy on him.

[palehose35]

jenks45...

santana/shields/willits could work.

the angels won't give up kendrick though. they didn't want to give him up for miggy cabrera.

[Jenks45Monster]

I really don't like this deal at all though. I'd say if possible give up Thome because what happens when Thome retire within the next few years if we got Willits or Figgins? We have no DH then...unless Dye would retire and DH but then who in RF...too many questions here I say just leave it as it is. If I had it my way I'd have Kong DH when Thome retires and Swisher play 1st.

[Jenks45Monster]

sorry my bad not if Dye would retire if he switched positions...my bad

[gogopalehose]

Dye would be much better at DH. But Thome has a full NTC and probably wouldn't want to move out of his home area.

[kdub]

How about the Giants, Randy Winn + Pitching for Konerko? The Giants need a 1B and if the White Sox trade Konerko and move Swisher to 1B they'll need a CF.

Winn played as good of a CF as Swisher did last season. And he hit .300/.353/.445.

Only problem is that both Winn and Konerko have limited no-trade clauses.

[Jenks45Monster]

I know...I said IF possible though.

[Jenks45Monster]

Winn is vastly overpaid. If it was Winn + Linecum or Cain I wouldn't mind, but that would NEVER happen.

[kdub]

No that wouldn't happen.

[bigbaddbobbyjenks]

the idea of trading Konerko to the Angels has been on white sox message boards all offseason. I hope that's not where this "solid tip" came from...

[bsox21]

the white sox already have konerko.....his name is kendry morales.

[bsox21]

i meant angels.

[bigbaddbobbyjenks]

konerko >>>> k.morales

[astralpanda]

Kenny needs to deal from a position of power here. He really doesn't need to get rid of Konerko who's locked up until 2010 at a soon-to-be below market price. And Crede must NOT be a throw-in. If you must trade the 2, at least wait til the end of Spring Training so Crede can build some more value. He has top ten 3B potential in offense and top 5 in defense when healthy.

[astralpanda]

lol bsox, funny funny stuff

[gogowhitesox]

TRADE THOME.....KEEP KONERKO

[astralpanda]

and oh yeah, Crede's only gonna be making 5MM in 08 which will also be his CONTRACT year!

haha sorry, I just really don't wanna see him given away for nothing, especially when the thought of Fields' retched defense and possible record breaking strikeout totals come to mind...*shudders*

back to Konerko...

[gogopalehose]

Come to think of it, it might not be a bad idea to send Fields back to Charlotte to work out some rough parts, like his defense and contact.

[gogowhitesox]

Fields will definately challenge the single season strike out record. He had 125k's in only 100 games. Im gonna go out on a limb and say in the remaining 62 games he would produce the 75k's he would need

[WHITESOX]

Fields isnt going back to Charlotte.
Why would the Sox want Santana? How is he any different from Danks and Floyd, a guy with good stuff but has struggled at the bigs
KW has already said Carlos Quintien is gonna be a starter and he has high hopes for him.
Not to metion the Angels already have Kotchmen
It just makes no sense to me.

[gogopalehose]

He had 185 Ks between the majors and minors. That could come with forty homers though...dunno, but it seems like a decent idea still having Crede.

[WHITESOX]

1. Fields wont be sent back to AAA
2. Carlos Quietin will be a starter next season, KW has made it clear and loves him
3. Why would the Sox want Santana? How is he any different from Danks and Floyd in the sense that he's a pitcher with good stuff who has struggled at the majors.
4. The Angels already have Kotchmen, why do they want Konerko
The only trade I could see is maybe Crede and Konerko for Figgins, Shields and Hendrick, that gives the White Sox a centerfielder, 2nd basemen and setup man. But would the Angels do that?

[forlife61]

Thome is going nowhere people, let it go. He has a NTC, wouldnt waive it last year, certainly not going to do it now. Its common knowledge that he and his family want to stay and finish out his career in Chicago.

Now Konerko...KW has said he is not interested in trading him....unless a team absolutely knocks him out with a package. Im thinking a Figgins,Santana and another player might get that done. If Konerko goes, its by himself, not a package of him and Crede. KW will wait for Crede to prove he is healthy in spring training and then, when his value is higher, i'd expect him to be traded.

[DingChavez]

I know.... let's send Orlando Cabrera to the Angels for Jon Garland. THE SOX NEED PITCHING!!!!!

[rps]

This makes sense if the Angels are targeting Bedard. Maybe they trade Figgins and Santana for Konerko and Crede. Then trade kotchman, Adenhart, Wood and willits for Bedard.

For the White Sox, Swisher moves to 1b, Figgins plays 2b, Fields plays 3b, and santana bolsters the rotation.

For the Angels, they clear up their logjam in the OF, with Vlad in RF, Hunter in CF, Matthews in LF, and Anderson at DH, Konerko gives them the power bat they've wanted, and Bedard gives them a killer rotation of Bedard, Lackey, Escobar, Weaver, and Saunders.

The Orioles get a lot of young talent, including their 1b of the future, a pitching prospect from the balt. area, and the potential ss of the future.

[rps]

trading *for* bedard obviously.

[andrewh11882]

You can forget Kendrick. If they wouldn't pull the trigger on a Miguel Cabrera deal involving Kendrick, they sure wouldn't trade Kendrick for Konerko. As much as the Angels need power, trading away Figgins would leave them without a leadoff hitter and with a dramatic decrease in speed, which would seriously hinder the "small ball" approach. And it would leave them without a 3B, in addition to an unproven SS. I just really can't see them giving up Kendrick or Figgins, especially when they are so high on Kotchman. I would think they would be more comfortable with Figgins/Kotchman then with Konerko/Maicer Izturis or Brandon Wood at this point. An Ervin/Kotchman/RP (Moseley? Bootcheck?) or something along those lines might make sense for the Angels...not sure about the White Sox though.

[gogopalehose]

Figgins and Santana wouldn't get Konerko alone.

[gogopalehose]

And I doubt they traded for Garland to not use him in the rotation.

[Jenks45Monster]

One problem with Figgins as part of a Kong deal. What about the Sox outfield then? Wasn't the trade for Swisher to improve the outfield? That would leave us right where we left off, with no proven LF and CF.

[gogopalehose]

Figgins would be in center and Swisher to first. Still, Figgins is only under control through the end of the year. Konerko is signed through 2010.

[andrewh11882]

Really don't see this happening for either team. I think we can return to our regularly scheduled Johan rumors.

[rps]

Forgot about Garland. Maybe they send Saunders and another player along with Figgins and Santana (Willits?) to get Konerko and Crede.

[Jenks45Monster]

No, I'm talking about what was mentioned a few posts ago by 'rps' he said if Figgins came and played 2nd and Swisher went to play 1st.

[gogopalehose]

Figgins is never used at just one position. He's like Mark DeRosa, super utility player.

[Jenks45Monster]

That would still leave problems in unproven players like Richar, Owens, and Quentin playing their respective positions when he isn't.

[angelfan4life]

As an Angels fan i dont like this rumor there no chance i would give them(sox) any of our prospects and players that had some heroic and horrible seasons like figgins, e. santana. Why would the angels want konarko what ever his name is? The angels have a posible 15 or 20 HRS a season guy without injuries. If the angels really wanted to get another 1st baseman they should wait next offseason to see want kotchman can do and by the way Mark Texeria is a FA. So i hope this trade does work.

[djskilbr]

The Bedard line of logic makes sense.

Otherwise, I just see no need for the Angels to get Konerko. Kotchman is decent and is a great defender. Their need is 3b, not 1b. Crede makes a whole lot more sense than Konerko.

If no Bedard deal, what about something like Matthews/Figgins/Santana/pitching prospect for Crede/Konerko?

DH Konerko, have GA/Rivera split time in LF, Hunter in CF, Vlad in RF.

And for the Sox, they get possible help in the rotation, which they desperately need, and they could play Swisher at 1b, Matthews in CF, Quentin in LF, Dye in RF, and Figgins as a utility guy to backup Fields/Uribe at 3b/2b.

With all of that the Sox MIGHT be able to get 4th place in the Central. Way to make a push, Kenny. hahaha

[Jenks45Monster]

No way would that happen, don't forget Crede's value in super low. And Konerko alone would probably only get Figgins and Santana. Plus why would the Sox take on Mathews' contract?

[mss4481]

I'd rather have Kenny Lofton than Gary Matthews Jr. That's one contract I think the Angels are stuck with. As for the guy who said Figgins is a utility guy to back up Fields/Uribe and 3B and 2B. I just want to know are you stupid, know nothing about baseball, still hungover from your new years eve party, or some combo of the three? Figgins would make a great pair with Cabrera at the top of the order. I'm with Jenksmonster though on Crede's value. If you could get Figgins and Santana for Konerko, I would think about it at least. As for Crede, I'd love to see him stay, but they probably won't sign him so I assume if he's healthy, he'll be gone. Anaheim seems like a logical fit, but what about calling the Brewers? They need a 3B so they can move Braun to LF and they are loaded with prospects. Maybe you could pluck someone like Manny Parra and Corey Hart or Bill Hall from them. Anyone who reads baseball america knows they have a logjam in the OF and have even more prospects (LaPorta and others) on the way in the OF. Plus another upside is you'd be helping out the one team that can probably beat out the cubs for the central division, and thats never a bad thing. Oh yeah to all the cub fans that keep saying Kenny got lucky in 05 winning the world series, Happy 100th Anniversary since your last World Series, other than raising ticket prices through the roof, what else are you guys doing to commemorate it?

[ChicagoWhiteS0xFan]

WHITESOX:

KW already had his set up man, Scott Linebrink

and Futureprospect3:
Paulie ain't 31, he's 33 and I hate to say it but his age is gonna start catchin up to him soon :-/

[ChicagoWhiteS0xFan]

WHITESOX:

KW already had his set up man, Scott Linebrink

and Futureprospect3:
Paulie ain't 31, he's 33 and I hate to say it but his age is gonna start catchin up to him soon :-/

[spencer_hong]

Okay, number one, get over it White Sox fans, nobody will want Jim Thome.

Two, as an Angels fan I don't think they will pull this trade. They're high on Kotchman, and it doesn't make alot of sense to trade Figgins, and they will definitely not give up Kendrick.

They also wouldn't take away from one of their strengths and trade some of their relief pitching such as Shields.

If anything gets done for Konerko it will include starting pitching along with prospects.

But I really don't see this happening. Think about it guys, if the Angels and White Sox had something to talk about, they would have done it along with the Garland/Cabrera trade. It could be a fall back because of what happened with Miguel Cabrera, but I doubt there's anything serious going on here, we've been hearing about Konerko to the Angels for a while.

[gogopalehose]

Konerko is going on 32...

[Jenks45Monster]

Yeah Konerko is still 31...turning 32 in March. Do some research.

[mss4481]

Spencer,

While you are right there have been rumors about Konerko to the Angels for awhile, the reason this deal is more likely to happen now than it ever was is because of the trade the White Sox made yesterday to get Swisher from the A's. The Sox essentially have a very good offensive and 2 guys that are 1B and another that COULD play 1B if he had to in Thome, the deal makes sense for both teams because the white sox do need pitching and prospects, but if you think for one second they will trade Konerko, arguably their best all around player and definitely their most popular player without filling a major need in return then you are sadly mistaken. Santana is more of a semi-prospect with major league experience, but he falls along the same lines as a Gavin Floyd, who has had stretches of success and could potentially be a decent 3 or 4 starter at some point. The only big need the sox have in their every day lineup is a leadoff hitter and a CF (assuming Swisher is moved to 1B due to a trade) and a 2B (sorry not sold on the Richar/Uribe combo)Figgins fills all three of those needs potentially and at the very least 2 out of 3. My guess is there is NO WAY the white sox make this trade unless Figgins is included or its a 3 way and they get a player like him. I'mn not sure anything will happen at the moment, but it wouldnt surprise me if Crede looks good in spring training, that you get some type of deal involving Konerko and Crede to Anaheim and Figgins, an SP and whoever else to the Sox sometime before opening day.

[Jenks45Monster]

"If anything gets done for Konerko it will include starting pitching along with prospects."

It would include starting pitching but not prospects. Why would they want prospects? They're trying to win now, if you recall thats why they traded Gio, DLS, and Sweeney for Swisher, because the organization is thinking about 08' and not down the line.

[Jenks45Monster]

And the reason this deal is most likely to not happen is because every trade rumor we hear almost NEVER happens. Think back. Coco Crisp. Jason Bay. Kenny Williams is an under the radar type of guy.

[gogopalehose]

I think Willits and Adenhart would be ideal.

[mss4481]

You are right, it could be a fall back because of Cabrera, but at the same time assuming Crede is healthy he is easily the best 3B on the market now that Cabrera is off and AROD has resigned with NYY. I know Anaheim is high on Kotchman, but as an Angels fan, and youre trying to win a world series now, who would you rather have Konerko or Kotchman? The other thing Anaheim knows is while they are loaded with SP and have a pretty good bullpen, their every day lineup does not even compare to the Tigers, Indians or Red Sox. I hate to say it, but I'm looking for a big decline in Torii Hunter's numbers this year, moving out of Minnesota and into Anaheim and also playing alot in the spacious AL West ballparks. I honestly think if the Angels could swing a deal to get Konerko and a healthy Crede, and only have to give up Figgins, Santana and a prospect or maybe a bullpen guy, they are the clear favorite to win the world series this year. Without Konerko and Crede, i think they are the 4th best team in the AL. Thats why im thinking if this deal happens it will be when Crede proves hes healthy.

[mss4481]

gopalehose,

I think Willits and Adenhart would be ideal if the Angels were trading with the Florida Marlins

[djskilbr]

I hate the Angels, but if Reagins (sp?) deals Adenhart even straight up for an overrated Konerko, he should be shot IMO.

I guess I'm just really high on Adenhart. As I said, I hate the Angels, but I think he's going to be their #1 starter within 2 years.

[bseballcrzy17]

It's been said before, but the only way this trade works is if either we are looking to go after bedard or santana, OR we're are getting crede in return.

I'd say..
Angels get Konerko and Crede

White Sox get Kotchman, Figgins, Willits and a low level pitcher.

but even then, it's a LONG shot. The Angels are super high on Kotchman and Figgins, so I'm not really sure how this would happen.
But let's say it did...

1. GMJ LF
2. Kendrick 2B
3. Vlad RF
4. Konerko 1B
5. Hunter CF
6. Anderson DH
7. Crede 3B
8. Napoli C
9. Aybar/Izturis/Wood SS

that's a pretty crazy lineup. plus, you potentially are getting a rotation of...

Lackey
Bedard
Escobar
Weaver
Garland

we'll have to wait and see.

[mss4481]

djskilbr,

Well dont lose any sleep over it cause i guarentee you there is no way KW is making that trade either. Im sure if this trade goes down Figgins will be the main player involved fron Anaheim

[gogopalehose]

Willits is a true center fielder and leadoff guy, I don't see the problem with getting him. Adenhart is a blue chipper they might not need if Santana and Saunders turn it around. The Sox have plenty of guys to compete for a rotation spot, the last thing they need are some more "projects" like Santana and Saunders. And it would be an idea package, not one that would necessarily happen.

[The COM]

Why I'm not sure if a deal like this makes sense for the Halo's, why wouldn't the White Sox ask for Gary Matthews Jr. + Joe Saunders to do this deal? I know the Angels can use another bat and I like Konerko a lot, but Kotchman is more than servicable and it seems like they would be better suited going after a power hitting left handed bat if possible.

[Joelcards]

crede and konerko for one of the young pitchers,figgins, and shields. this would make very good sense for both teams. that doofball at the beginning talking about how great morales is? konerko is the real deal. morales is an aging prospect. the angels hold on to all these prospects but have zero patience with them. they dont have a real strategy and should go for broke this year. why the heck not get konerko. money obviously isnt an issue.

[Jenks45Monster]

I think that KW needs to grow a pair and ask a deep price for Konerko like how he just got pimped by Beane for our 3 top prospects. If they say no too bad, but I say ask steep and take it from there

[Yu Hsing Chen]

Am I the only guy here who thinks that the White Sox attempts are pretty futile? i mean they were 29th in 30 team in pythag last year... they were HORRIBLE , and outside of Crede it's not like they were badly hurt . you could debate that Dye / Kernoko could bounce back but their 07 season wasn't really that much out of line with their career lines and both are over 30 (Espically Dye.. who's going ot be 35)

[Jenks45Monster]

Who the hell is Kernoko? It's kinda Konerko. They were actually badly hurt outside of Crede last year. Contreras played horrendous and what about the outfield? An outfield including Erstad and Pods didn't help especially when they were injured. And Uribe? Yeah he sucks as well. With O Cab taking over for him that actually helps a ton. And acquiring Swisher for the outfield certainly wont hurt us. And an upgrade (only a small upgrade in an aging Linebrink) doesn't hurt either, unless were talking about his contract.

[Jenks45Monster]

And by the way Dye is still 33...going on 34 in May.

[LAA...what??]

You fellas shouldn't be so down on Angel "project" pitchers. After all, one of their more notorious projects ended up being your closer. Konerko is the real deal, but hes also in his thirties and Im not sure that another expensive veteran is what we need. After 2 bloated contracts made in desperation I can only hope that Reagins and company will exercise some restraint. It's a pretty good team right now and we still have extra talent to trade before the deadline. The past few years have demonstrated that the angels have no trouble getting to the playoffs, the trouble comes when we go to play a homerun derby at Fenway in the playoffs (why not wait for the market to develop?). Oh and since were discussing dislikes, as a Halo fan I hate all Sox teams (white or red).

[spencer_hong]

I agree with what most have the active posters on here have said, but as an Angels fan I believe that Figgins is a big price to pay, even for Konerko. Yeah, getting Crede back in return would be great, but in my opinion he's a bit of a risk. And throwing Shields in just blows my mind, he's arguably one of the best relievers in the game excluding his fall apart 2nd half last year.

[alexinengland]

Why would getting Joe Crede help? The man has a career .305 OBP, you'd be better off playing Brandon Wood or Maicer Izturis every day.

[palehose35]

that's the problem with statheads...they forget the importance of defense than the significance of statistical progress.

you realize there's life in between moneyball and real baseball, right?

[Peter Venkman]

Swisher makes more sense when considered in relation to Thome AND Konerko. This trade is an effective platoon of Thome. He will sit against LHP, Konerko will DH, Swisher at 1b and Owens in CF. Swisher can lead off even though he is not a threat to steal. With the line-up behind him and US Celluar to hit in he will have an OPS near .900. Crede may go but the Brewers or Phillies make more sense. No will take him until they see him in Spring Training.

[Whitesox10]

I personally would really like to see Kendrick and Willits as part of a package for a trade. Willits gives them the speed they want, on base percentage, and center fielder they need. Kendrick is obviously going to turn out to be a pretty good 2nd baseman. Not saying Danny Richar won't, but hes not even guaranteed 2nd base yet, so who knows. Or the other possibility that I wouldn't mind seeing would be Scot Shields, and Reggie Willits for Konerko. That would be pretty good in my mind. However, the IDEAL trade in my eyes would be Joe Crede and Paul konerko for Reggie Willits, Scot Shields, and Chone Figgins. Thats a bit of a stretch...but nothing is wrong with high hopes. I just don't want konerko getting dumped for prospects though. That would be a bit of a waste, nor do i want to see Ervin Santana in a white sox uniform!

[Krelian1]

Palehose35 - Before you shove your foot even further down your throat, you DO realize that these "Statheads" have plenty of ways of measuring defense, right? All numbers per the DT cards at BP, btw.

Crede's runs saved by defense over an average player(FRAA)for his four years of 130+ games (2003-2006): -3,-10,13,23

Crede's runs contributed on offense over an average player(BRAA) for that same period: -8,-13,-5,3

On the whole(combining the two numbers), he was worse than the average player for 2003-2004(-11,-23), a tad better than average in 2005(8), and good in 2006(26).

For comparison, the last couple healthy years combined numbers for ACTUAL top 5/top 10 3B:
Zimmerman:34,31
Wright:44,34,63
Rodriguez:34,63,13,69
Cabrera:25,36,59,52
A. Ramirez:20,13,22,39
C. Jones:10,25,30,57

Crede is nowhere near top 10 at 3B. He had one good year in his entire career, and not enough defense to make up for a .305 OBP. I only take such offense to Crede since some NYers actually thought he would be a decent replacement for A-Rod if he walked, btw.

Mark

[cachhubguy]

The Angels don't need Konerko. At least not yet. With Oakland dismantling, thay have already wrapped up their division. Unless Seattle does something spectacular, they can wait until the trade deadline to pick up a bat for the final two months. I would wait to see how some of my young guys are developing.

[Cold Golden Falstaff]

I don't see Konerko getting traded..yet.

He's a fan favorite and most Sox fans don't know Swisher yet. I agree Swisher could take over for Paulie at 1B.

Konerko's too valuable to Sox chances in 2008 and would be a much better trading chip for prospects if the Sox flame out in a year or two and need to do a more thorough rebuilding.

Besides once Crede shows that he's healthy this spring, The Sox may get a young speedster and pitcher for him and a prospect or two. The Sox would be trading very low to deal Crede now.

[cachhubguy]

Falstaff, you over value Crede. He came up with some clutch hits in 2005 but he is just not that good. His career stats of .259/.305/.446 are well below the production you need out of a third basemen. I wouldn't give up more than a B prospect for him. And that is only if I was desperate. Of course it is not unusual for fans to fall in love with their players, especially the group that won them a WS. I'm not even crazy about Konerko. He disappears for two months at a crack.

[RandomScrub]

"Konerko's too valuable to Sox chances in 2008"... I hate to be negative, but I don't think the Sox have a change in 2008. Garland for Cabrera dismantled their pitching, since Contreras is likely to regress further and Buerhle's career stats suggest he won't repeat last year (though Vazquez is the real deal, just not quite an ace). Now, the offense is good enough to win a number of games, but between the Indians and the Tigers the Sox aren't winning that division.

Quentin, Fields, and Swisher are the only players on that team likely to be around the next time the Sox are competitive. Dye and Thome are still around if you trade Konerko, and now that you have no farm system it'd be worthwhile to replenish it. If the Angels offer some A level prospects (more "Adenhart" and less "Santana") then the Sox need to do it.

[striker]

I love how these message boards always end up with name calling and ripping.

I love this website and visit it daily but the fact that this was reported on this website leads me to believe it won't happen.

If it were to happen I would say Willits + Saunders to the Whitesox for Kornerko. Angels need Figgins more than they need Willits. And they don't need Saunders with a rotation of:

Lackey
Garland
Escobar
Weaver
Adenhart/Santana

I don't see Crede and Kornerko in this deal as it would just complicate things.

[striker]

Most of my fellow Whitesox fans will probably blast me for saying this but I don't think Figgins is much of an upgrade over Owens. Figgins had an awesome year last year but the three years before was .290/.350, which I think Owens could give you. Willits is the exception, he's been in the high .300 low .400 OBP for most of his career.

[ballyb11]

"Contreras is likely to regress further"

I'll take the opposite side of that - big time.

[RenegadeRalphE]

i agree with ballyb11 about contreras, he was so dominant not that long ago, and last year he had to go thru a divource, which im sure was a huge distraction for him on the mound.

Also, the angels are very high on konerko, so hopefully a packaged deal with crede with bring back some nice assets

[Andrew Cabiness]

Everyone needs to keep in mind that KW doesn't NEED to trade Konerko, and as such, isn't going to unless he wins the trade in a big way. If any proposed deal seems close to "fair", then the Angels would probably have to add to that to get it done. I think the Sox main targets would be Figgins, Saunders, Matthews, and Speier, and it would take two of them plus cash or three of them to get it done.

[bseballcrzy17]

So here's a thought...
could the Angels be thinking of moving Konerko back to third base? he hasn't played there since 2000, but if they gave him enough work there during Spring Training, it could work.
That might be why Kotchman's name hasn't come up anywhere yet.

[ballyb11]

"could the Angels be thinking of moving Konerko back to third base?"

You have the right name - bseballcrzy ;)

[trek81]

Im surprised that Kendrick's name keeps coming up. Maybe the Halo's think the hype is greater then the talent? I'd like to know if either team would be willing to play Figgins at 2B everyday. If the Angels would they could deal Kendrick and GMJ for Konerko and Crede if the Sox took GMJ's full contract. If the Sox wanted to play Chone at 2nd they could ask for GMJ plus a decent prospect.

[bseballcrzy17]

ballyb11-

it was just a thought... lol.
how else would you explain them going after a 1B when they already have 2 good ones that haven't come up in trade talks?

[Jenks45Monster]

None of this will ever happen. There won't be a Konerko trade since KW wants to win now and doesn't want prospects or "projects". And you know he wants to win now since he traded away his top 3 prospects for Swisher.

[mss4481]

To whoever said that the Angels dont need Konerko and would rather see how some of their prospects do, I couldnt disagree more. The Angels lineup (are you ready for a .260, 20 HR, 75-80 RBI year from Torii Hunter? cause thats what it will be about with the move out of Minnesota and into the AL West and their huge ballparks) sucks compared to the Tigers, Indians and Red Sox. Plus if you get Konerko now, you can get away without trading Morales, Kendrick, Ardenhart (which I think you could, as long as Figgins and Santana are in the deal), you can always trade them at the trade deadline to fill injuries or ineffective players or next offseason. The worst thing the Angels can do is wait is because Crede's value is probably going to get higher, not lower and the same will happen to Konerko if the Angels have any significant injuries or another team (Yankees, Red Sox, Mets) decide to go after him too later in the year closer to the trade deadline. Remember Konerko is signed through 10, I think so KW isnt trading him for nothing and I think the cheapest you will get him and Crede is now

[mss4481]

Trek,

I can almost guarentee you there is a better shot of the Florida Marlins winning the world series than KW trading Konerko and Crede for only Kendrick and GMJ and on top of that taking on GMJ's full contract. Their history has never been to take on a full contract, and I dont even think they want GMJ if the Angels paid his whole contract. I dont think Konerko gets traded unless Figgins is involved in some way.

[darkstar1661]

What are people talking about this for? Its such a longshot to happen. Here, these are the problems I see with this rumor:

1) the Oakland trade of yesterday. Some may say “it gives the Palehose a replacement for Paully” ~ but you don’t desperately target a guy to the point of giving up 2 Top50-60 SP prospects just to replace the guy you are planning to trade. Keepings Konerko and trading for a CFer would have been much, much easier than to trade the 2 SP prospects and a CF just to get a replacement for 1B so you can trade your old “fan-fav” 1B for the CF you wanted to start with (Figgins I am assuming) . See how backwards and runaround that is, it makes no sense ~ even for Kenny to try and pull off…

2) The Angels are so high on Figgins its not even funny. They recently told the Cubs that it would take ARam to get him. Konerko I would think would be considered about on par with Ramirez as far as the production bat they covet so no point in thinking Konerko for Figgins/Santana/Propsect! They will never give that much up for him, at most it would be Figgins + a Midlevel Prospect

3) Who would the Angels play at 3B if they traded Figgins? Figgins + Kotchman is far soupier to Konerko + Izturis, and the second cost a ton more cash! That really eliminates him from being a possibility in this, and as all of you guys know ~ CF is what the ChiSox are trying to fill. So, if not figgins, then who? Willits? Well, maybe ~ but do the Sox really want to trade Sweeny to Oakland for Swisher to replace Konerko who is traded for Willits? We are left with the production value of Konerko + Sweeny vs Swisher + Willits in the end while also giving up those two Top50-60 SP prospects to make it happen. Just doesn’t make sense, right? We are left with only the possibility I cover in #5

4) Why do the Angles need yet another 1B? Really, they only have 2 already, as well as way too many OFers on big dollar contracts. OF/1B/DH is jam packed completely, trading an OF for another 1B doesn’t do anything in the end really ~ esp if it’s the one cheap guy out of all the OFers they have (ie, Willits who makes LgMin as opposed to the expensive Mathews JR/Hunter/Vlad/Anderson). In the end, one of the 10+M dollar men would have to be sitting on the bench every single day just to get yet another 10+M DollarMan into the lineup. This isnt making sense either…

4) The Angels are probably just a bit pissed at the Sox at this point! The package sent to Oakland for Swisher is rivaling those being offered for Johan Santana. Honestly, it was a Top-50 SP too many that they included ~ they paid in essence about twice as much as they probably should have. The Angels are probably thinking to themselves “dude (KW), you just help our closet competitor by leaps and bounds in your giving him way, way, way more than you should have” ~ and almost all of the players could be seen in the Majors by the end of 2009! The ChiSox made Oaklands semi-rebuild much, much easier and I cant imagine the Angels like it much at all…

5) Only way I honestly see this taking place is if it turns into yet another “salary-dump for salary-dump” type deal (ala Cabrera/Garland). I could see maybe Konerko for MathewsJr+Prospect almost making sense from the Angles side, maybe… This would in essence mean the Sox traded GioGonzalaez, DeLosSantos and Sweeny for Mathews & a Prospect though since Konerko/Swisher kind of cancel themselves out ~ and that is something I believe would create rioting in the streets! What would make sense for the Angels, doesn’t for the Sox, and vise-versa ~ this just is such a longshot to happen and if the two teams are really talking, its bound to be just talk…

[mss4481]

Cachhubguy,

Ive only been on this site a couple days, but you by far lead with the most stupid posts on here.

Crede for only a B prospect? I really hope you were joking or at least meant until he proves he is healthy.

Crede's stats are on the rise (and before you get a hard on and come back with his stats from last year, please remember he was hurt)
Bottom line: Crede when healthy is a 25-30 HR, 80-90 RBI, .275-.285 hitter, a great clutch hitter and a top 5 3B defensively

If not, I really hope your computer blows up so you cant post on here anymore.

Oh and here's a surprise, the guy I didnt know who it was, that was talking about the Angels not needing Konerko and having their division wrapped was you... Theres a shock.

[mss4481]

Darkstar,

Cachubguy still has the lead on stupid posts on this site, but if you can post 5 or 6 more times a day, you'll probably pass him.

The Angels are so high on Figgins. They are? His name has been mentioned in trade rumors for 2 years.

They are so high on him, what did the Angels do this offseason? Sign Torii Hunter to play CF and try very hard to try and trade for Miguel Cabrera to play 3rd. Where does Chone Figgins play most of his games? 3B and CF. Brilliant logic.

Next stop: Clark and Addison for you

[darkstar1661]

mss4481,

If you can point to one thing you have posted that makes sense then I will give you even a grain of salts worth of respect ~ until then I can only ask WTF is wrong with you???

Now, as to your actual post to me ~ so, why has his name come up so often? Uhhh, you ever think it has something to do with that fact that almost every single team in baseball is drooling over the chance of getting him? If they arent so high on him, then why havent they traded him yet? Figgins can play any OF position ~ oh, and any infield position. Yeah, he's not a great 2B, but he can do it... Why target Hunter & Cabrera? Well, they never thought they really would get Miguel so they signed Hunter, and guess what ~ they were right! Oh, but even if they had gotten both, they would have had to trade Morales leaving a huge gapping hole at 2B Figgins would have filled.

But yeah, the Angels telling the Cubs they wanted Aramis Ramirez for Figgins shows how down they are on him, right? Yeah, I guess youre right... ***rolls eyes***

[darkstar1661]

err, that should have said Kendrick up there instead of Moralas as the guy they would have had to give up leaving 2B open...

But hey MSS, still cant wait to hear your reasoning as to why the Angels would give up Figgins + Santana + Prospect for one Konerko. I mean, lets think about what Figgins is. Guy off .330/.393/.432 season in extreme hitter park which got him to 20th in MVP voting. In the last 4 years, he has been voted in the top 25 in MVP 3 times. Oh yeah, he can also play any position but Catcher and will steal between 40-60 bases for ya. Sounds like a guy you package with other prospects, huh… Freakin moron…

[gogopalehose]

Figgins is coming off a career year, Konerko is coming off his worst year since '03. Konerko is signed through 2010, Figgins through this year. I don't see any reason to try to get him, I would rather have Willits at this point and prospects. But if it is Santana and Kendrick like the article says, I would ****ing jump on that. Reagins, IMO, will be recognized as one of the worst GMs not too long from now.

[Jenks45Monster]

Am I the only one that thinks a deal like Kendrick and Santana for Konerko would have a domino effect on the Sox? If Swisher moves from the outfield where he is supposed to play to 1st, we have to fill another outfield spot with a young guy (Owens or Quentin) and then when Thome retires who DH's? Dye? But then who would take Dye's spot in RF...A deal like this would leave us with more questions than we started off with. But unless Figgins is included I really hate this deal. As gogopalehose just mentioned Figgins just had a career best year and Konerko had a career worst year...

[Whitesox10]

Figgins didn't even play all year. He played in only 115 games. He strikes out too much for lead off guy in my opinion. He's not that great of fielder. Average at best. I'd much rather have Reggie Willits included in any deal with anaheim rather then Figgins. Willits is a better fielder, can steal some bags (not as many as figgins) he's younger, has a better on base percentage, and strikes out less. Those are plenty of reasons for me to prefer willits over Figgins definitely. And to answer jennks45monster's question. I would keep willits in left. Owens in center, and Quentin in right. Swisher at first obviously, and Dye as DH.

[beauhoopman]

Who is this MSS481 guy?
I'm a white sox fan, but I am also level-headed enough to realize that Joe Crede has NO TRADE VALUE. He has one above average year, he is coming off experimental back surgery, he is a Boras client, as is headed to free agency. An A level prospect? Come on, that's homerism at its worst.

[gogopalehose]

Besides, after Thome and Konerko would be gone, that would be about the time Contreras is gone, and that would open up a lot of money for free agents by that time.

[Jenks45Monster]

I'd take Willits over Figgins anyday but I just don't see them giving Willits up.

[darkstar1661]

Gogo,

Although Figgins is coming off a Career year, he is also coming off the first year where he played one position exclusively. I cant stand the Angels (living in LA will do that to ya) ~ but this guy is really, really that good; I honestly cant deny that… He’s a switch hitter who is probably a lock to post atleast 290ish/350-370/425-450 in Chicago while stealing upwards of 40 bases and fill the leadoff & CF holes. Oh, he would also replace an injury to anyone at LF/RF/3B/SS or 2B with Owens taking the CF spot if its needed. You know I’m not a Sox fan, but THIS is the one guy out there that makes sense above all other possibilities for the club. He would need to be extended contract-wise, but anyone in the area will tell ya that this guy is not a money-grubbing type and instead plays for loyalty. He and Ozzie will get along great I imagine, and an extension would probably be easy to hash out.

In Anaheim? He’s a fan-fav, team-fav, cover-any-hole while providing great numbers stud. He’s consistently been the teams 2nd MVP behind Vlad, and his production/versatility is much, much hard to replace than Vlads bat would be. This guy is almost impossible to replace for the Angels unless they were able to get an AS at 3B while not giving up Kendrick. And that leads to the problem of what it would take to get him. Figgins is probably going to cost Konerko almost straight up, and that is the huge deterrent I imagine. If the talks didnt center around Konerko and rather Fields or Crede then it would make much more sense, but I don’t think the ChiSox have the pieces to add to get that done though…

Willits is ok, but he’s really Figgins without any power, less speed and no versatility. Its also a more rebuilding trade if its for Willits ~ and you know that isnt KW’s thinking for the club. Also, the Angels cant trade Willits for Konerko unless they also unloaded one of Anderson/Mathews at the same time. With the ChiSox recently extending Dye to that questionable contract and pulling in Swisher to block the OF/1B/DH openings even more, they wouldn’t be able to fit both Willits and MathewsJR. Maybe Anderson & Willits could work with the thinking of just losing Anderson after the year, but he’s a 10-5 and can veto anything.

Santans+Kendrick doesn’t make sense at all, in any way shape or form. It would leave the Angels with an IN of Figgins at 2B (his weakest position), Wood at SS (no real ML experience) and Izturis at 3B (not contender type production at all) while giving them 8 guys to fit into the 5 OF/1B/DH spots…

Like I previously said, nothing between the Angels and Sox makes sense for both clubs at this time ~ they both have too many OF/1B/DH types already. Konerko going to Anaheim is probably as likely as Johan becoming a Giant…

[darkstar1661]

oh also for you guys talking about Willits ~ dont forget that he is a 27YO without a full years worth of experience in the Majors yet. He doesnt seem to be what you guys think he is, and his marginal numbers in the minors when he was 2-3 years older than everyone else is a strong indication that he wont be too hot in the future...

[Jenks45Monster]

hes 26...turning 17 in may

[Jenks45Monster]

27 in may , my bad

[gogopalehose]

He is what he is, a 350 AB's a season guy. That being Willits. He's like a Rajai Davis or something, someone who will play solid defense, get on base and steal some bases. And he's a perfect leadoff hitter.

If the Angels got Konerko I would have to imagine that they would DH him and then put Kotchman in the revolving door of DHs and 1st basemen, with Konerko getting some games at first to DH Vlad and such, when against tough lefties(I know he was good against lefties last season but that is just how it would go). Anderson would probably miss a lot of games, and Matthews would too. It would make them a little better at a much higher cost, a trend that we have seen all off season, but I don't think they care about money anymore.

[cachhubguy]

ms441, I will agree with you if you can tell me which two years that Crede played over 100 games, that he actually recorded 25-30 homers, 80-90 rbi and batted .275 - .285.

[darkstar1661]

Yeah, I know. So he’s 27 for about 4-5/6ths of the 2008 season ~ right? He’s 1.5 years older than Figgins, with minimal experience, less power, less speed, less versatility and only fair numbers in the minors when he was 2-3 years older than everyone else… Don’t get your point?

Gogo,

But really, really, really think about it for a min…

Angels – Willits + Konerko =

OF:
Vlad (120G RF, 20 DH)
Hunter (140G CF)
Mathews (80G LF, 20 CF, 40G RF)
Anderson (80G LF, 40G DH)

So we have about 60G at DH left and a full 160 at 1B to go to Konerko + Kotchman + Juan Rivera + Kendry Moralas…

Try to break it down, its impossible to do ~ and that’s after taking a fairly lowball number on everyone above… Konerko maybe 140G and you are left with only 80 for Kotchman/Rivera/Moralas ~ two guys with an OPS+ over 110 in 07 (Kotchman & Moralas) and one with a OPS+ over 90 after a 126 the year before and 100+’s the previous 3 years (Rivera).

Really, one of Mathews/Anderson would have to go with Rivera + Anderson/Mathews being the LF. There is just no other way to make it fit ~ at all… Shoot, as it stands with Anderson/Vlad/Hunter/Mathews/Kotchman/Rivera&Morals all being signed for the OF/1B/DH spots, the team will probably have Willits in the Minors until there is an injury and Rob Quinlin is a good as out of a job with his 1M contract... The Angels have way too many OF/1B/DH now, they would have to lose atleast 2 of them (one being a high dollar contact) if they were to fit Konerko in.

[Whitesox10]

Gary Matthews Jr. better NEVER land of the southside. I noticed a couple people mentioning his name above. He's had ONE good year, a few AVERAGE years, and several BAD years. I wouldn't want to trade for this guy unless I gave up a bag of balls for him. To me he's pretty much useless. Especially for the white sox.

[Bwoj20]

I LOVE how you Angel fans think that the White Sox would be getting a good deal by trading Paulie for Willits and Shields or Figgins and Saunders, or some variation of those names. GET REAL!!! You're not getting Konerko unless the Angels are willing to give up Kendrick, Kotchman or Wood + prospects.

[hemingways]

I would think this would expand to include Crede (or Fields, since Kenny Williams seems to have lost his mind).

Maybe Konerko+Crede or Fields for Figgans, Kendrick, and a pitcher, perhaps Ervin Santana. 2 for 3 sounds like it could work.

I don't know if the Angels would be that interested in dealing for Crede until he proves his back can stand up to playing again, but they might take the risk since he's on a one year deal.

[darkstar1661]

Hemingway,

Leaves Angels no one for 2B and they would be questionable for 3B (because of Credes injury history) while still not removing anyone from the OF/1B/DH logjam to make room for Konerko. That trade specifically cant happen from Angels side…

Seriously guys, the Angels current 25M roster pretty much looks like this:
(+/- being the guys most likely to be sent down if it goes to 13 hitters & 12 pitchers)

C Napoli
1B Kotchman
2B Kendrick
SS Wood
3B Figgins
LF Mathews
CF Hunter
RF Vlad
DH Anderson

B-C Mathis
UI Izturis
4OF Rivera
+/-Bench Aybar
+/-Bench Moralas

Still left off the roster:
Willits & Quinlan

You would need to open an OF/DH/1B slot from that 25Man if Konerko is added ~ that’s the only way it works on Anaheim’s side. And really it has to be a higher priced one (ie not Kotchman/Moralas) because of how much the team has already added to payroll this year even before Konerko and maybe even Crede head to Anaheim. Again in the end we are left with either Anderson or Mathews almost certainly having to be included to the Sox to make this work…

WhiteSox10,

You might want to be worried right about now then ~ it does make more sense for them to be talking about Mathews (A guy the Angels actually would like to trade who is a CFer ~ a position the Sox have been looking to fill) than for anyone else rumored/talked about above. Sure Swisher could cover CF, but he isnt a real CFer at all and does replace Konerko nicely.

Out of everyone on the Angels that is A) really available B) fills a Sox need and C) opens ML roster spot for the returning player (here rumored to be Konerko) ~ Mathews would probably rise to the top. Well in a really pitiful, twisted, rather sickening way atleast… I cant imagine the Halos ever being able to move GMJ, but the Sox have long been rumored as the one possibly interested club…

[Whitesox10]

Well then I'm definitely ready for the GMJ rumor to die down completely because I would NOT watch the white sox if they traded for that garbage...unless he came along with a couple other good players.

[striker]

I think for any of this to happen a third team would have to be involved. Like many posters have said, LAA has too many OFs and 1Bs they would have to get rid of some.

How about:

Whitesox get Brian Roberts and Willits.

LAA get Kornerko, Crede and Bedard.

Baltimore gets Adenhart/Saunders, Santana, Kendrick, Kotchman, GMJ

........................
Whitesox Lose
Broadway, Kornerko, Crede

Baltimore Lose
Bedard and Roberts

LAA Lose
Kotchman, Kendrick, Santana, Adenhart/Saunders, GMJ

Let the criticizing being....

[gogopalehose]

More like:

LAA gets Konerko, Masset, Crede

CWS gets Hanley Ramirez, Kevin Gregg

FLA gets Kendrick, Aybar, Willits, Egbert, Adenhart

Hanley would play CF for the Sox, Swisher to 1st >_>

[cherryghost]

brian roberts is my offseason dream as a white sox fan.

[weelburg]

Angel beat writer Matt Hurst says the Konerko rumor is bogus:

Yesterday I posted an Internet rumor that the Angels were said to be in talks with the White Sox regarding Paul Konerko but I also said that it was unlikely if this is anything recent or developing because last I had heard the teams briefly talked about this before the winter meetings.

Well, according to baseball sources, the last time that Konerko's name was brought up in any capacity between the teams was right around the winter meetings (very early December) and nothing recent.

Seems that the Sox haven't even discussed anything regarding Konerko with the Angels in at least a month and my hunch that this was the case was confirmed after making a few calls.

So, Konerko to the Angels? Only if the White Sox decide to re-open talks for him, but anything like that appears remote. Of course, if you're Chicago and have a 2-3-4-5-6 of Orlando Cabrera, Konerko, Jim Thome, Jermaine Dye and Nick Swisher, it would seem foolish to trade one of those guys.

Another hunch of mine? That the surplus in pitching and outfielders the Angels have won't be tapped into by other clubs until at least midway through spring training. This is only a hunch, no baseball sources have confirmed or denied this ... it's just my opinion.

http://www.beloblog.com/Pe_Blogs/prosports/2008/01/updating_angels_rumor.html#more

[denny]

ESPN1000 was reporting Konerko and Crede for Kendrick, Santana, Adenhart, and S.Rodriguez. I wonder if the broadcaster was wearing a Frank Thomas White Sox jersey at the time?

[bseballcrzy17]

i'm calling bs on Kenny Williams...
when asked, Reagins said he could neither "confirm nor deny" that rumors. if there was nothing to it, and they weren't talking, then he would've flat out denied it.

[ChicagoWhiteS0xFan]

hahahahah denny, but yea i wont be too happy if Konerko leaves

that guys my favorite and is the reason why i chose to play 1B 6 years ago, he's my all time favorite player

[cachhubguy]

Like I said, the Angels don't need Konerko. It's not going to happen.

[darkstar1661]

Yeah, I didn’t think this could be real ~ I couldn’t see where the interest in Konerko would come from for Anaheim really and none of the mentioned players made sense at all when you started thinking about it…

And that ESPN100 thing is a joke ~ they didn’t get Cabrera because they wouldn’t give both Santana and Addy up and that’s another 17-20M in salary added to an already higher total for 08 with nothing being lost at the same time. As much as people think Anaheim is this loose-cannon big spender all the time, they haven’t really raised payroll in the last 4 years and have made statements to the effect of they really cant do so by that much, if at all. No chance that one is real…

There might be talks between the two clubs, but its probably doubtful it is centering around the players mentioned in the initial post.

[Whitesox10]

Yea man its too bad about Konerko. I definitely have mixed emotions. Defensively I think hes the most underrated 1st baseman in the game...not ONE gold glove, yet look at his numbers! .995 lifetime fielding percentage! Thats amazing. He's one of the best in the business at scooping up bad throws, saving crede and uribe numerous times through the season. This guy better get a gold glove before his career is over. Sorry a little off track there, but I as well would be a little sad to see konerko go definitely. If they don't get a kendrick or willits or Figgins in a trade, or maybe even shields, I personally think it'd be a waste. Konerko for Willits and Santana, or Kendrick and Willits would be nice!

[ChicagoWhiteS0xFan]

yea, i always heard about him when i listened on the radio about his diving stops and his nice picks on ground balls at First, seems like nothing would get by him over there too, Crede and Konerko are good corner IF players

[ChicagoWhiteS0xFan]

"SHARP ground ball hit to first -- PICKED OFF BY KONERKO, great played by Konerko over there at First"

"hard hit ball ta -- DIIIIIIIIIIIIVING STOP BY KONERKO"

[Whitesox10]

Exactly my thoughts! Thank you! Can someone in the other MLB please notice this besides us!

[palehose35]

yeah konerko is awesome at picked throws in the dirt, and he doesn't really let anything get by him providing he can get to it. that's the only thing holding him back defensively though...his range isn't the greatest. he has some of the softest hands around..he's just not that athletic.

[spencer_hong]

random thought here but.. anyone else think its somewhat difficult to decifer comments in this black and white without any lines dividing them?

tim do you think we could do something to make it easier to read from comment to comment?

[Whitesox10]

Ha Yes i do agree with you spencer. Its a pain sometimes to find my original post to see whos posted after it.

[nrmax88]

mms is out of his mind. What do you think Crede is worth? He has only one good season, which wasnt even great, it was okay, he posted something like an 830 OPS. This was also helped by hitting in a small park and in a good lineup. His highest OBP in his career when he has more then 200 At bats in a season is .323. He is an injury liability. Even when healthy, there are so many 3B who are better then him. A-Rod, Lowell, Glaus, Gordon, Chavez, Beltre, Miggy, Chipper, Wright, Zimmerman, A-Ram, Braun, Rolen, Edwin Encarnacion, Garret Atkins, even guys like Mark Reynolds, Chad Tracy, Hank Blalock, Mike Lamb are on par or better then Crede. He cant be all that valuable.

[cachhubguy]

Darkstar was right. mms has not posted a single thing that has made any sense. And when you point out his flawed thinking and WRONG facts, he calls you names. Obviously not very intelligent. Sounds like roid rage.

[Whitesox10]

Wow, crede is better then at LEAST half of those players you jst mentioned on that list. Chavez is NOT better then crede. Chavez is always injured who has been garbage the last few years. Beltre OVERRATED. ONe good season for him...Mike Lamb...are you kidding me? Chad tracy?? JOKE! Encarnacion...doubt it. A-Ram is an overweight cocky player who can't even run out a grounder without hurting his damn quadricep. Glaus...not to much. There is no 3rd baseman on that list that is better then crede defensively. The only one close is chavez, and hes rolling down the hill fast. Offensively, obviously Arod, miggy, chipper, and wright are better offensively. But also...does Arod ever get clutch hits in playoffs? Haha JOKE .258 lifetime post season average. Crede is definitely a better deal since his average salary isn't more then 25 million per year.

[darkstar1661]

Uhh, WhiteSox10 ~ did you seriously just tell us that Crede is better than the likes of Chavez, Beltre, Tracey and Lamb? Let alone countless others since you said “better then at LEAST half of those players” ~ and he listed 19 guys afterall… Lets think about it for a second…

Crede:
Career .259/.305/.446 *OPS+ 92*
High .285/.323/.506 OPS+ 113 (only 53G)
Most recent .216/.258/.317 OPS+ 49 (47G)
Best season .283/.323/.506 OPS+ 107 (150G) – in 2006
Average OPS+ last three years ~ *84* and Avg 109G

Chavez
Career .269/.347/.486 *OPS+ 117* (yeah, career average 117 OPS, better than Credes best!)
High .276/.397/.501 OPS+ 134 (125G)
Most recent .240/.306/.446 OPS+ 102 (90G)
Best season .288/.338/.540 OPS+ 128 (151G) ~ 2001
Average OPS+ last three years ~ *105* (!) and Avg 129G

You can already see that Crede doesn’t even begin to become remotely close to as good as Chavez ~ and even in his career best season (stats + nearly full year), he still only gets to about what Chavez is averaging the last three years. Oh, and they are the same age so its not like one is in their peak while another is ageing or whatever. You might want to rethink that “Better than Chavez” statement…

Want to do Chad Tracy as well? Sadly he doesn’t have that many seasons in the majors to factor yet, but we can go like this:
Career .288/.348/.468 *OPS+ 105*
High .308/.359/.553 OPS+ 132 (145G)
Most Recent .264/.346/.454 OPS+ 100 (76G)
Best season is that “High” which came in 2005
Average OPS last 3 years ~ *110* (!) and Avg 125G

Crede doesn’t come close to that either…

Look, Crede might have potential to be an ok player, but he really hasn’t shown that potential in the majors. 2006 is the only semi-impressive season he has had, and the three years of sub-LgAvg numbers leading up to it leads on to question his real future. Is he a crappy player? Nah, I wont say that ~ but his ML contribution is nothing near his potential and so far he has provided numbers which are dwarfed by guys like Chad Tracy and Mike Lamb ~ shoot, and even Casey Blake honestly…

[angels fan]

I say the Angels stay out of this and go after Texeria if the Braves don't contend and then give him an extension. Who knows how much it will cost the Angels with him being a Scott Boras Client.
Or sign him in free agency if the Braves to contend but don't resign him.

[Whitesox10]

Darkstar1661
Chavez in his prime WAS better then crede I agree. Although obviously crede hasn't hit his prime yet. But since 2003 chavez has slowly but surely declined. His average, homers, rbi's. Everything has been dwindling. He didn't even finish the 2007 season because of back problems like Crede. I'm not saying crede is gods greatest 3rd baseman, he just deserves a little bit more credit then I think your giving him. Aside from 2004-2005 his average has never been that bad(aside from shortened 2007 season with back problems) his power numbers are always good for a 3rd baseman, and his glove is one of the best in the game. There's no going around that hes one of the best defensive 3rd baseman in the game.

[darkstar1661]

WS10,

You left off the most important thing though ~ Crede’s OBP. His career high is .323! Yeah, .323!!! Do you realize how awful that is in the AL in one of the most hitter friendly parks there is ~ and its his best! The last 5 years his OBP has been .308, .299, .303, .323 and .258 ~ that is consistently atleast 40 points or more below even LgAvg; and its from a position which is supposed to provide offensive production. All the power in the world doesn’t help a team much if you cant get on base, something Crede has never been able to show he can do ~ at all.

So, his Power and D ability is instantly minimized by the fact that his production at the plate is so damn hit and miss. Oh, and his Defense was only really great in 2006 ~ otherwise it too has been real hit or miss. Besides, D at 1B and 2B is much less important to clubs then to you apperantly, teams want offensive production from these positions since even a lesser fielder can provide semi-comparable actual value with the glove. Middle infield D is much, much more important…

And I don’t understand how you can say “his averages have never been that bad” when you say this is the case only if we discount 2007, 2005 and 2004 ~ that’s half of the years he has played. It would be more logical to say that his BA has never really been that good outside 2006 ~ the year where his OBP peaked at .323… Seriously, there were only 16 qualifying guys in the AL to post an OBP lower than .323 last year ~ and again that’s Crede’s career best!

And its unusual to say that one 29YO hasn’t hit his prime while saying another 29YO is well past his when the ages of 28-32 are the prime years of physical ability for players. Its also strange to imply that one player who has averaged more games the past 3 years is an injury risk when trying to discredit him. Truth is, in 2007 Chavez was the better player. In 2006 they were close to even. In 2005 Chavez was the better player. In 2004 Chavez was the better player. In 2003 Chavez was the better player, in 2002 Chavez was the better player, from 1998-2001 Chavez is easily the better player because Crede hadn’t made it to the majors really. At his worst, Chavez has been above LgAvg ~ at his best Crede matches it.

There is no comparison here ~ and as it stands today, Chavez is more likely to A) stay healthy and B) even have a job anyway for the 2008 season. Crede could very well be a back-up this year and out of the majors by 2009. I mean, he’s really no different than Morgan Ensburg, a player having a real difficult time finding interest recently…

Again, I wont say he’s crap… but he is much, much, much closer to crap than anything special based off what he has shown in his career to this point… Can you name 5 teams he would be starting for in 2008? That alone tells us that he probably isnt that hot of a commodity...

[gogopalehose]

Crede swings a hell of a lot. Luckily, he never, hardly ever strikes out. I would attribute this to a little lunge swing he uses to flick low and away breaking balls to the outfield on two strikes. Anyway, his defense truly is elite. Top 4 in the majors I'd say, only after Chavez, Beltre, and Zimmerman. You can throw Inge and Feliz into the mix too, but Crede is definitely a glove master. His OBP is abysmal but I wouldn't be surprised if he has his best season both offensively and defensively in 2008 for whatever team he plays for. This would be because he was gradually improving as a player on both sides of the game, but also because he finally corrected that back illness that was holding him back. He claims to feel better than ever before, and will start in 2008 for some team, and I wouldn't be surprised if that was the White Sox because his value is so low.

Dark- I think Crede would be a good fit for the Giants, Brewers, or Phillies. Other teams that could be interested are the Angels and Dodgers, even though they have LaRoche, because Colletti is an idiot.

[cachhubguy]

gogo and WS, I understand that you guys are loyal WS fans and you like Crede. You want him to be great. All I am saying is that history does not support the "leap of faith" you are asking us to take on Crede. I hope I am wrong because he seems like a good guy. I just don't think he will ever be an above average hitter.

[darkstar1661]

Gogo,

Angels would be a no unless they were uncomfortable with unproven Wood being the starter at SS. At that point Figgins would be at SS with maybe Crede & Wood being pretty much a platoon situation. They would not keep him longterm unless Wood busts/gets hurt since Brandon has a much, much higher ceiling and honestly should be about equal in a worst case scenario… Also limiting the longterm probabilities is Mathew Brown. If Anaheim gets Crede, its probably a part-time job as a one-year filler… The most telling part of the Angels probable interest though? The fact that they traded Cabrera to open the job for Wood just a few weeks ago. That move basically shows they don’t have real full-time starter interest in Crede and want to see what Wood can do instead…

Dodgers would be a similar situation. Best case would be a semi-platoon with LaRoche.

Giants ~ yeah

Phillies ~ probably, but maybe not longterm because of Costanzo

Brewers ~ well… Braun is too good and the current OF depth means he has to be at 3B really. No place for Crede unless multiple other things take place at the same time. Crede doesn’t have the proven upside of Rolen, so it’s a bit different situation then their possible interest in Scott…

Unless he goes to Phi, SF or lucks his way into a injury-replacement job, I just cant imagine him getting 300+ AB this year. If he doesn’t get 300+AB, then its doubtful a team will automatically give it to him in 2009. Mike Lamb was rather undesirable on the FA market, and he’s a much better all-around player (very strong range, more versatile around field, much better OBP skills, has similar power…) That tells you what it will be like for Crede if he doesn’t have a rather impressive 08. Since he doesn’t even really have a job at the moment, the odds are not looking too good here. All the teams you listed pretty much passed on Lamb, and he isnt off back surgery… Crede is in possibly the worst possible situation a guy could be in, and it will probably take a whole bunch of luck to get him out of it. The Sox getting anything too special in return for him? That’s a huge longshot even if he mashes in the preseason…

Sidenote ~ if anything, Crede’s OBP had gotten worse nearly every year until that 2006 spike. Similarly, his BA wasn’t as good in 2005 as it had been in 2002 & 2003. I hope you are not talking with the wishful thinking, world-altering, team-logo beer-goggles on here :)

[gogopalehose]

Eh...it stayed the same from 03-05, his first 3 full seasons. Crede will probably stay with the Sox until he proves that he can or can't play well. I think that his ability to hit for average will keep his OBP about where it was in 06. His defense is what separates him from the rest of the pack. His back surgery/rehab is supposed to be great though, so who knows, we might see a new Joe Crede in 08. Or, he just might flop. But that's a risk that the White Sox have to take, and tender him a contract. Also- Braun is going to go to the outfield, trust me. His value at third base and Crede's value at third base probably isn't far off, that's how bad Braun is on defense.

BTW- the Phillies make even more sense, because Costanzo has been traded this offseason. Twice :)

[whitesoxfan424]

95% of the people on this side are so jacked up on fantasy stats, that you forget that you don't have to have mvp stats to be a valuable player. Coming to the park day in and day out playing good defense and gettin hits when needed and being an asset is more important than helping your fantasy team. Unless you're arod from last year... then you're god (atleast during the reg. season).

[darkstar1661]

Oh that’s right, he’s one of those that ended up in Baltimore huh… Sorry, quite easy to forget moves by teams like Houston and the O’s :p So yeah, the Phillies would be a possible longerterm option too I guess. That leaves us with 2, maybe 3 teams (depending on the Brewers/Braun/multiple moves taking place feelings) where he would be the full-time starter. I would also add possibly Fla, but he makes too much cash for them so… That’s not very good pickings for a guy others were claiming to be so productive and valuable…

And I wouldn’t say his OBP stayed the same, dropping from .311 to .299 is within a +/- of .015 ~ but was a drop more than him showing progression. The only real improvement was the overnight showing from 2005 to 2006 though, otherwise he was just kinda there. That isnt “gradually improving” ~ and that’s the point…

His BA, like mentioned before, has never really been good outside of one year ~ that 2006 season. It was ,283 then, otherwise the closest it had been was .261; and that would provide a .310-ish OBP based of his normal differential. .310 OBP from 3B? I’ll pass no matter what his glove is like ~ that’s bottom 10 in the AL.

[gogopalehose]

Maybe you're just bitter that he put the final nail in the coffin of the 2005 Indians >:( Kidding, kidding...

He'll find a suitor. There's always a suitor. a lot of teams who turned down Inge would probably go for Crede, because it's a one year investment.

[darkstar1661]

Actually, that was Sizemore really… grrrr… but I forgave him :)

Really, all of the above is just talking about stuff that is outside the point anyway ~ the point was that he doesn’t hold as much value as that one guy was saying and isnt easily better than so many out there like he claimed. If he was, we wouldn’t be talking about him maybe finding a job with one or two teams. He also is extremely unlikely to bring anything much in return, the topic that started the entire Crede debate to begin with… I personally don’t think he is as bad as I can make him out to be, but its super easy to point out his being that bad!

[Whitesox10]

Some good points I agree, but you can't say in 2006 Crede and Chavez were CLOSE to even. Crede batted .283 30 homers 94 rbis had a .506 slugging %, and didn't have a great OBP with .323 in 150 games. Eric Chavez batted .241 22 homers 72 rbis had a .435 slugging % had a decent OBP of .351 in 137 games. Obviously crede had a better year ALL around besides in one thing OBP. He beat chavez in everything else. His fielding percentage was also better

[Whitesox10]

check that...chavez fielding percentage was a tad bit better sorry!

[Whitesox10]

5 Teams that crede could be on now is actually not that hard to think of. The Royals, Marlins, Giants, Phillies, Pirates, and rangers would all love to have crede. Some more then others, but he would be an upgrade on any of those teams.

[Whitesox10]

But on the flip side of all this let's go back to the topic hand which is...the white sox better screw the halo's out of some good players for konerko, because the sox just have up a treasure for nick swisher!

[darkstar1661]

Well,

A) Although there is a 13G difference, the PA difference is only 10. That amounts to the same amount of playing time for the two.

B) While Crede may have better looking individual numbers at first glance, he also played in one of the top hitter parks in the AL as opposed to the hardest to hit in. He also provides an unbalanced statline because of the high-power and low-OBP Skills. Its best to take some of the following when trying to figure out how similar players were when they had such dramatically different styles:

Crede 107 OPS+ vs Chavez 105 OPS+ ~ that’s close...

Crede had a .264 *S-EQA to Chavez at .268…

Crede had a EQR of 79 to Chavez at 76…

Crede had a WARP of 6.5 to Chavez at 6.4…

Crede Fielding RAR of 37 & 23 RAA to Chavez at 35 and 22 respectively…

These two just had a rather similar season that year ~ that’s why I said it… Crede’s might be on the better side, but it’s a rather minimal difference and it would really come down to personal preference if people were to pick one based solely off that years production… That’s also Crede’s best season ever vs a rather low one for Chavez over his career though ~ as you know…

To your other posts
~ actually Crede would never have a job in KC because of Gordon (well unless they wanted to give him a season in the minors) or Tex because of Blalock…
~ Konerko will not be traded to the Angels; there is just no need for him in Anaheim. Kotchman should be a younger Konerko in a cost-controlled situation anyway, and the team will have ML OFers in the minors already because of how many players they have for 1B/OF/DH… We went over that :)

[cachhubguy]

Are we starving for some new information or what? We have been talking about what Joe Crede is worth for days. Can we PLEASE have some new trades?!

[Jenks45Monster]

Why would the Royals need Crede? They have Alex Gordon who is supposed to become a monster.

[Whitesox10]

Gordon is SUPPOSED to be a monster yes...But a .247 average, 15 homers 60 rbis, 60 runs, 137 k's...not exactly what I call great. Crede as of right now is a better player.

[Whitesox10]

I'm sorry I'm keeping this crede thing going, there's just nothing else to talk about, so I gotta debate about something!

[Blutarski]

I think Olney's right there is a chance that sometime in the future that someone from the Angels may mention Konerko to someone from the White Sox and they may mention the ozone layer sometime in the future too.

[bjsguess]

How is Crede better than Gordon now? As crummy as 2007 was for Gordon he still easily crushed Crede.

Gordon is healthy - Crede is not. Gordon has upside, Crede's is limited.

As Darkstar pointed out, Crede in his best year (far and away best year) was still only average when you look beyond the basic stats. If a down year by Chavez is equivalent to a career year by Crede then the guy is just not that great.

I do think that Crede brings some value to a team BUT all the stars have to align perfectly. He must be healthy and have his 06 production. Both of which we may never see again.

[04Forever]

selling konerko now while the price is high is the best thing the white sox can do to ensure a brighter future. they can pick up 4 new talents to replace a guy whos numbers are going to start to slip soon. white sox arent going to be a contender for the playoffs for the next few years anyway, so they should really start thinking about the future.

[PIERZYNSKI 4 PREZ]

I do not see how traded Konerko right now will make us more of a contender? We would be subtracting power from our lineup. He is our team captain and is a fan favorite in the city of chicago. It seems to me that KW already regrets selling the farm to get Swisher, and wants to re stock the system by selling off one of the teams biggest assets. The angels our notorious for not wanting to meet the demand on frontline players for there prospects, And KW is notorious for not getting enough value in return for his premere players. This trade to me has a disater written all over it. I can envision a blockbuster trade were the angels get Konerko-Crede, and we get Kendrick-Figgins-Santana-Walden. This trade would make the angels instant favorites in the AL and would help the Sox for the future as well.

[Cold Golden Falstaff]

I agree in regards to dealing Konerko for prospects. It makes no sense at all for 2008, since the Sox aim to be a competitive team.

Maybe a year from now if the Sox want to truly rebuild, they could make that deal but not now.

How about this for speculation: If Crede shows up for Spring Training healthy, does anyone think the Sox could deal him to the Angels for Figgins straight up?

Both are in a contract year and injury risks. I wonder which team would need to toss in prospects to make that work...

[darkstar1661]

"How about this for speculation: If Crede shows up for Spring Training healthy, does anyone think the Sox could deal him to the Angels for Figgins straight up?

Both are in a contract year and injury risks. I wonder which team would need to toss in prospects to make that work..."

I will answer your question ~ the Sox would have to throw in prospects ~ and really, high ranking ones (which they dont even have anymore)

Figgins is a player that will rank in the top 25 in MVP voting ~ Crede is a player who has like 2-3 possibilities of even finding a job. A comparison is not even close, and its why the Angels told the Cubs it would take Aramis to get Figgins. Crede isnt even as close to as valuable as Ramirez, even on the off chance he provides his 2006 numbers again…

[PIERZYNSKI 4 PREZ]

I would have to disagree with that assumpion heavily. For what the angels need is power, and Crede will provide that. I know that he is coming off surgery, but that is a good thing. He put up 30 homers and 94 ribbies with a herniaded disc, so amagine what he will do when healthy. Figgins would not provide nearly as much power crede by a longshot, and that is what the angels need. They still have a leadoff hitter in mathews and a # 2 hitter in Kendrick. There outfield is crowded, they already have there future 3B in Brandon Wood. Future SS in Aybar, 2B Kendrick, and 1B in Kotchman, which figgins is not a first baseman anyway. Factor all of this in and it comes down to a shorterm answer, and when you are is desperate need off power and clutch hitting, which the angels had like 3 runs the entire playoff series, it is in their best interest to take a chance on crede over figgins. The only reason they asked for Ramirez from the cubs is that the cubs do not have anything close to what the angels would need to contend, not do they have any real good prospects. So what do you accpect. They want a third baseman. They could have asked for vitters, but I am sure that by no means is he major league ready.

[rfro]

Figgins an MVP? Gimme a break! I don't even want him on the White Sox! Jerry Owens can put up those offensive numbers and not be half the defensive liability Figgins is. Crede plus prospects for him...not today boy. You can keep Santana (over rated)Kendrick (avg only)I wouldn't trade Konerko for any of the garbage the Angels have on the table either. I see Crede going to the Giants for Lincecum.Konerko ain't going nowhere this year.

[darkstar1661]

Pierz…4Prez,

Well, the whole thinking behind Wood over OC is to gain power. You also have a small power increase with Hunter and should expect Kotchman and Moralas to both provide it as well when they get more playing time. What the Angels don’t need is more questionable power ~ and that’s exactly what Crede is. I know he provided borderline stats in 2006 (meaning good power with horrible OBP) ~ but that just doesn’t cut it for this club.

But really, I cant think of a single reason why the Angels would ever trade Figgins for Crede ~ what would the Angels ever gain out of it? Maybe 25 HR power with absolutely no OBP? That’s what Crede will be in Anaheim, it is afterall one of the most brutal hitting parks there is. Figgins is a guy who will step in an play anywhere on the field for you whenever its needed, Crede is a guy you hope stays healthy for atleast 4 or 5 months ~ and even when he does that, whos to say he doesn’t hit .252/.303/.454 (like in 05) or even worse .239/.299/.418 (like in 04). Do you know how bad those lines would have looked in Anaheim? Those lines would be worth negative value to the Angels, Izturis can produce better than that…

I’m sorry, but the Angels interest in Crede would never go as high as Figgins. They could want the two of them on the same field together (with Wood in a seemingly platoon spot with Crede at 3B as he breaks himself in and Crede is worked sparingly to make sure he doesn’t hurt himself) ~ but replacing Figgins with Crede would be a disaster for the club… Taking a chance on Crede would equate nicely to their taking a chance of Shea Hillenbrand in 07 or Edgardo Alfonzo in 06 ~ they will not trade much of value to take that chance though; why would they?

RFO,

Figgins was 24th in MVP voting in 2004, 17th in 2005 and 20th in 2007. Believe it or not, he is much, much more valuable then anyone wants to give him credit for (well apparently WhiteSox fans will do anything not to believe it ~ but what can you do...) And just so you know, the only team I hate more than the Angels is the Yankees ~ so its not like I'm a Halo-Homer or anything ~ I just happen to live here and must admit this guy is quite the gammer…

[PIERZYNSKI 4 PREZ]

Well darkstar you live in LA. You watch angels games and you like figgins. Well I am sure pretty sure that you do not watch White sox games and there is more to Crede than his OBP. What was a nice respectful disagrement with has turned into pure ignorants when you compare Crede to Alfonzo and that other pile of garbage. It seems you will go to any level to try to prove your point. You could say no more because I am done wasting my time arguing with a MORAN LIKE YOU.

[cachhubguy]

rfro, "Crede is going to the Giants for Lincecum."
That might be the funniest post I've ever read.

And it continues to amaze me, although it shouldn't, how White Sox fans continue to completely ignore the numbers Crede has put up in his "entire" career. They quote his best year, which is still below average for a third basemen, as if that is the springboard for things to come.

They talk about him as if he is Brooks Robinson with power.

I'll ask one more time, although I never get an answer. If he is as great as you guys say, why is every post about how you guys are trying to trade him. Where is the outrage with Kenny Williams for trying to trade away such a great third basemen?

[whitesoxfan424]

As a white sox fan, i am very disappointed in my fellow sox fans' views. crede for lincecum, or for figgins? yeah, ok.. how bout uribe for johan? myabe we can trade macdougal for beckett?

crede for correia or crede and a prospect for lowry would be as far as it would go for giants trades

how bout the sox look at fogg?

[whitesoxfan424]

cachhubguy,
I would rather see what fields could do with a complete season. I like crede, but with him having 1 yr left and confirming he's going FA after 2008, only an anti-sox fan would not want to atleast see what we could get for him.

please don't lump all of us sox fans together, many of the morons jumped on when 2005 rolled around.

[Cold Golden Falstaff]

While I admit Figgins has had better years than Crede, with Wood and Aybar ready the Angels have replacements, and aren't willing to pay to keep Chone in free agency.

As I recall Figgins is brutal defensively at 2B and 3B, and really doesn't have a true position in Anaheim.

He'd be an upgrade at 2B or CF over Richar or Owens, and my proposal was for Crede 100% healhy and hitting and fielding at 2006 level.

I dont think it's an even deal but I do see a possibility of the Angels and Sox trading their extra 2008 FAs for each other.

[Cold Golden Falstaff]

Also, I see a healthy Crede as a good alternative to Aramis. I watch that guy half-ass his way through 162 games on the North Side. he may be a better power hitter, but Crede's a better defender and he's also a gamer doesn't mentally take games or weeks off.

[RenegadeRalphE]

-cachubguy

most whitesox fans have known for awhile that crede would be gone bc kw doesnt deal well with boras and the imergence of josh fields. Weve seen it coming for a while. And as for all the crede-haters, i understand he doesnt get on base all that much, but id like to bring to mind somethign hawk harrelson always says "dont tell me WHAT you hit, tell me WHEN you hit it"

could someone check out crede's stats after the7th inning, i know ive watched "clutch crede" come hrough time and time again

thanx,

[darkstar1661]

But again, it seems that people are just ignoring the huge problems here:

I’m sorry, but Crede really only brings 2 thing ~ possible power and good to possibly great D. His OBP skills are next to nil, he has no speed what so ever, he isnt durable or versatile and his fielding has fluctuated just like everything else over his career with 2006 being the peak.

1) Crede is off a horrible injury, why would a contender bank on him maybe being able to play 140-150 games after that? This is all based on the off-chance he looks healthy in spring-training ~ but “looking healthy in spring-training” and “playing 150 games” are two totally different things. And its not like 07 was the first injury this guy has had. Seems quite the risk for a contender to take even if they aren’t giving up anything of value, but youre asking for a huge value in return.

2) And even on the off chance of being 100% healthy a whole season, how do we know he would return to 2006 form anyway? His 2004 & 2005 numbers are dramatically different and would be absolutely horrible production out of an Anaheim lineup. 2006 could have just been a fluke year where he hit much better then he is capable because everyone around him was also having rather career-like years. We saw it with Garland, it was blatantly obvious and even WhiteSox fans who insisted Garland had turned a corner seem to since believe it was more fluke than progression.

3) Crede has put up the high SLG/no OBP in Chicago ~ in Anaheim that SLG will drop, taking away from his only true positive on the offensive side. His OBP will probably drop as well, making an already questionable line even worse. The team would be better served signing Pedro Feliz then to take a chance on Crede ~ Feliz atleast is coming from a similarly difficult to hit in park and if his numbers go back to what they were in 2003-04 then he would be worth much more then Crede since he will cost basically nothing to bring onboard. Feliz is a better fielder, can stay healthy on top of it and has been able to rake 20+HR each of the last 4 years; he’s already looking like a ton more value than Crede…

4) No, it just not going to happen; the Angels will not trade Figgins for Crede. It just doesn’t make sense for them, at all. It takes away a huge strength, an immensely valuable player, and a hugely popular player to add a huge question who you hope stays healthy and returns to his 1 years form instead of his other years form. It would kind of equate to the WhiteSox trading Paul Konerko for Jack Cust! Oh but it wouldn’t even be like that really ~ it would have to be after Cust misses 90% of the 08 season first to match what Crede did in 07. Could you see logic in that? Well, the Sox are not even contenders and would be making that horribly questionable move, you want the Angels to do it while still trying to win…

Oh and Rene,

Here, I did 2006 for ya (the season every seems to point to as the real Crede or whatever) ~ you can do the others…
INN 1-3 .295/.343/.524
INN 4-6 .290/.326/.520
INN 7-9 .262/.299/.476

[whitesoxfan424]

For the amount of money and years it will cost to sign pedro feliz, you cannot tell me he is a better option than crede. absolutely no way. crede is at least in a CHEAP one year higher risk, higher reward situation

[darkstar1661]

uhh, you seem to have read that wrong...

they say "Angels should trade Figgins for Crede"
I said "Why would they do that, they can sign Feliz without giving up Figgins"

It all has to do with them insisting that the Angels should infact trade Figgins for Crede for some unknown reason. Its insane, and I’m just giving them a better option to doing that.

[rfro]

whitesoxfan424...are you comparing Lincecum to Becket and Santana? Wow?! And as far as bandwagon jumping fans, the Sox had a look at Fogg...they drafted him and he played for the Sox already...that was enough for me, and probably the rest of us that were here before 2005.Cachhubguy...I didn't mean Crede straight up for Lincecum...The Giants are going nowhere, they're old everywhere...and bad.The Sox farm still has some talent (not much) the Giants would drool over, cuz they ain't got nothing on the farm. Rowand and Crede were great friends while on the Sox, might come into play for the Giants to sign Crede to a multi year deal before hitting free agency

[whitesoxfan424]

rfro, I guess sarcasm is lost when reading. If you took more out of that post than me making fun of a ridiculous trade like crede for figgins or lincecum, then you're an idiot. Right now especially, crede is no where near worth either of them straight up.

darkstar, i wasn't trying to negate your comment; i'm just amazed in so many people's love for feliz. he's a good player, no doubt, but not for what he's asking. Personally, i think crede is a better option at one year, cheap.