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Odds and Ends: Cano, Colon, Lowry

By Tim Dierkes [January 23, 2008 at 10:39am CST]

Here are some links I've rounded up this morning.

In theory, Robinson Cano would be open to a long-term deal. River Ave. Blues recently took a look at how historically good Cano has been so far, and suggest the Yankees lowballed him with their arbitration submission.

Baseball Prospectus' Derek Jacques saw Bartolo Colon pitch in the Dominican League Finals, and lends his evaluation. Colon was not impressive, but not terrible. It doesn't seem like he will get the two-year deal he wants.

The Brewers will bring Abraham Nunez to camp. Versatile, but a drain on offense.

Mark Gonzales of the Chicago Tribune notes that the White Sox aren't done yet. The Joe Crede situation should linger into spring. Gonzales also mentions that the Giants are "listening to offers for Noah Lowry."

A factual look at whether Omar Minaya really stockpiles Latin American players.

The Astros can't settle their gaps with Mark Loretta or Jose Valverde, and Ed Wade expects the team to go to its first arbitration hearings in over a decade. Wade has set a deadline of this afternoon and will go to hearings otherwise. Loretta asking for $4.9MM seems particularly off.

Matthew Cerrone takes an educated guess on the current Johan Santana situation.

Some interesting quotes from XM Radio from Michael Cuddyer and Scott Boras, separately.

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Comments

Crede isn't worth giving up Lowry at this point. Who knows where his back is at.

Posted by: zito4cyyoung | January 23, 2008 at 11:00 AM

Lowry wouldnt make sense in chicago. terrible K/BB and moving into a hitters park and the AL Central spells complete disaster. You could get 5.00+ ERA out of pretty much anyone you want. no thanks.

Posted by: trober81 | January 23, 2008 at 11:08 AM

Not sure where Crede's at either, but signing him to a $5 million+ contract tells me the Sox feel he's OK.

Posted by: ballyb11 | January 23, 2008 at 11:21 AM

If the chisox can get lowry for crede, I would be thrilled. He's shown good stuff, scary to think he'd prolly be our 3rd best starter.

Posted by: whitesoxfan424 | January 23, 2008 at 11:31 AM

Please KW make this trade happen that wud be ur best deal yet.. if not lowry get linnecuim that wud be even better ,.. just hope u get one of those two

Posted by: futureprospect3 | January 23, 2008 at 12:29 PM

HAHA dream on Sox fans.

Posted by: kdub | January 23, 2008 at 12:43 PM

Yeah any White Sox fans out there that think they are gonna get Cain, Lincecum, or even Lowry for Joe Crede then you are just out of you mind. The best return your gonna get from the Giants for Crede is a package of maybe two pitching prospects, nothing more!!! Oh and let me make this clear you don't have any players that could net you Lincecum or Cain in a trade, IT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!!!

Posted by: hiphopjunkie | January 23, 2008 at 12:49 PM

no1 ever said cain hip hop and i was just jokin bot gettin linnuecum.. but the lowry trade cud be a good trade if crede is healthy durin spring training

Posted by: futureprospect3 | January 23, 2008 at 12:52 PM

Lowry for Crede wouldn't be that bad of a trade but if I were the Giants GM I would just hold onto Lowry, because I think Lowry is good enough to net the Giants a young ML-ready prospect.

Posted by: hiphopjunkie | January 23, 2008 at 12:57 PM

L-I-N-C-E-C-U-M

Posted by: zito4cyyoung | January 23, 2008 at 01:02 PM

ya watever if crede is traded for lowry the sox will defintly contend and i dont care what u giants fan say

Posted by: futureprospect3 | January 23, 2008 at 01:07 PM

Not the direction the Giants should go in, and that is no knock on Crede. We need to make a push for a young controllable position player such as Encarnacion from the Reds. I think they would be a much better match than the ChiSox.

Posted by: The Juice | January 23, 2008 at 01:13 PM

crede healthy is way better than encarnacion .. and plus its not liek the reds are going to contend

Posted by: futureprospect3 | January 23, 2008 at 01:17 PM

Crede is garbage.. I'd rather trade Randy Winn to the Padres for Kevin Kouz.

We need to deal a veteran OF to give one of our young OFs an everyday role.

The Giants should just hold onto Lowry. Its not like a beat up 30+ year old average 3rd Basemen is worth a quality 3-4 starter.

We could just sign Feliz.

Posted by: Ohan | January 23, 2008 at 01:28 PM

Dude Ohan shut up u kno nothing about baseball to say that crede is garbage... easily in the top 3 for 3rd base u dumbass

Posted by: futureprospect3 | January 23, 2008 at 01:30 PM

This is a funny discussion, because both of those guys... Lowry and Crede...are likely to have mediocre to poor seasons in '08.

Posted by: Devlsh | January 23, 2008 at 01:39 PM

Crede is not garbage...but pretty close to it

Posted by: NorCalBB | January 23, 2008 at 01:42 PM

really.. im a dumbass. all you dumbass white sox fans think the giants should trade Cain or Linccumm for this chump.. shows what you know.

Crede is a CHUMP!

Posted by: Ohan | January 23, 2008 at 01:49 PM

dude where have u ever read about cain or lincecum seriously man u r pulling things out of ur ass that no1 has said.. ( i was joking about trading crede for linecucum)... but yet u still think people are saying cain and lincecum u dumbass ur the chump

Posted by: futureprospect3 | January 23, 2008 at 01:53 PM

Im sorry I hurt your feelings - I didn't know you had such a man crush on Crede.

Youre a joke..

Keep Crede and slob his knob all you want.. chump

Posted by: Ohan | January 23, 2008 at 02:04 PM

I really don't think anyone wants Joe Crede. But Noah Lowry in the Cell, in the AL Central? That's nothing short of hilarious. 6.00 ERA over the course of a full season. This deal is bad from both ends.

Posted by: beauhoopman | January 23, 2008 at 02:14 PM

Ok I got my joke of the day "easily in the top 3 for 3rd base u dumbass" yalking about Crede. I think we have names like Alex Rodriguez, Miguel Cabrera, Mike Lowell, Garrett Atkins, Aramis Ramirez, Ryan Braun, Freddy Sanchez, David Wright, Chipper Jones, Chone Figgins, Ryan Zimmerman, Alex Gordan will be better. I would even say Troy Glaus and Scott Rolen are better but there could be arguments there.

Posted by: Barroid_Bonds | January 23, 2008 at 03:01 PM

yalking should be talking***

Posted by: Barroid_Bonds | January 23, 2008 at 03:02 PM

I'm sure he meant defensively, which is viable. And Ohan, you're a moron. You're insulting people for things they haven't said.

Posted by: gogopalehose | January 23, 2008 at 03:14 PM

“I really don't think anyone wants Joe Crede.”

Exactly…

The thing is, there are currently 3 Joe Credes available on the market ~ Crede himself, Pedro Feliz and Brandon Inge. The problem? There are only two teems looking for a 3B ~ the Giants and probably the Phillies. To expect any one of these three to have much cost would be rather foolish, if the price is too high (whether in cash or players) the team would just move onto the next one or wait till it lowers (which those two teams are in the process of doing right now).

And before anyone goes off the hook saying Feliz and Inge are not the same, you better do some research. All three are No-OBP, (probable but not guaranteed) Plus-SLG, Plus-Fielders set to make somewhere between 5-6M in 2008 (check the park factors before dismissing Pedro or raving about Crede being so much better). Inge and Feliz are much less of an injury risk though, so they would probably be a bit more desirable ~ more than likely leaving Crede with the short end of the stick…

Posted by: darkstar1661 | January 23, 2008 at 03:33 PM

"Please KW make this trade happen that wud be ur best deal yet.. if not lowry get linnecuim that wud be even better ,.. just hope u get one of those two"

you can never ever ever tell somebody off on this blog again for "embarrasing themselves".

Posted by: nrmax88 | January 23, 2008 at 04:35 PM

Forgot about Chipper.

Posted by: nrmax88 | January 23, 2008 at 04:45 PM

"Dude Ohan shut up u kno nothing about baseball to say that crede is garbage... easily in the top 3 for 3rd base u dumbass"

Clearly better 3B. David Wright, Ryan Zimmerman, Ryan Braun, Troy Glaus, A-Ram, Atkins, Reynolds/Tracy, A-Rod, Lowell, Rolen, Miggy, Gordon, Beltre, Chavez.

Guys you can make an arguement for being better then Crede. Encarnacion, Blalock, Figgins, Lamb, Kouzmanoff, Sanchez, Wigginton, Blake, the list goes on and on. Crede top 3 3rd baseman? Really?

Posted by: nrmax88 | January 23, 2008 at 04:45 PM

Looks like White Sox fans really embarrassed themselves on this thread.

Hey gogopalehose and futureprospect whos the moron now..

Way to stick up for the ass clown who said Crede is one of the top 3 best 3B.

Posted by: Ohan | January 23, 2008 at 04:59 PM

Nrmax,

Why even bother to argue against this:

"Dude Ohan shut up u kno nothing about baseball to say that crede is garbage... easily in the top 3 for 3rd base u dumbass"

…Doesn’t the paragraph itself speak to the validity of its content? Cant imagine people read it and actually gave it much weight… (well, non-Sox fans atleast)

Posted by: darkstar1661 | January 23, 2008 at 05:29 PM

Ohan

You are garbage! You have no idea what you are talking about. You are probobly a cubs fan trying to de value the sox as much as you can. Well it was not long ago when I was hearing even from my friends that are cubs fans, I have alot of them, I do live in wrigleyville, were saying that they would take Crede over a-ram. If it had not been for his injury, he would still be progressing and building on his 30 homer 94 rbi season. Anyone that is garbage could not put up those stats, and come through in the postseason like this man did, game in and game out.

Posted by: PIERZYNSKI 4 PREZ | January 23, 2008 at 08:49 PM

"Dude Ohan shut up u kno nothing about baseball to say that crede is garbage... easily in the top 3 for 3rd base u dumbass"

That was hilarious. "u kno" just looks funny. I was laughing before I hit the end and that was the killer.

On a serious note, I'd say no to Crede for Lowry. I want Crede, but I think that Lowry could fetch Encarnacion from the Reds. I'd give the Sox a couple of pitching prospects if Crede is healthy.

Posted by: giantsfan18 | January 23, 2008 at 09:43 PM

Crede or Lowry is a fair exchange as long as crede is healthy. And i'm sure he'll shut up all the doubters once spring training starts.

Posted by: Whitesox10 | January 23, 2008 at 09:47 PM

nrmax88 you mentioned quite a few players on your "list" thats better then crede that definitely are NOT better. Must be another sox hater of course. Scott Rolen better? Thats the biggest joke. He plays 10 games and sits out a year.

Posted by: Whitesox10 | January 23, 2008 at 10:53 PM

Im a Giants fan ass bag.. i could care less about the entire city of Chicago and your little rivalry with the Cubs.

Crede had a couple of decent years in a hitters park with the help of an awesome lineup. Hes been hurt for a year and hes in his 30s. This isn't 2005 so YOU CAN KEEP YOUR BROKEN DOWN 3rd Basemen.

Posted by: Ohan | January 23, 2008 at 10:58 PM

Actually Crede just turned 30, so you can shut up about the thirties. What in gods name is an ass bag? thats a new one. I could personally care less about san francisco, and your lousy sports teams. 49ers are terrible, don't even have a basketball team. Well If we do end up trading Crede to the giants, you will regret those words, because you will be receiving a gold glove third baseman who would do very well for you guys. On a team starved for offense like you guys are, I could envision him hitting third in your lineup, leading the team in homers and ribbies. Your overpayed Rowand could really use the protection, and they are former best friends. I don't think you guys deserve Crede.

Posted by: PIERZYNSKI 4 PREZ | January 23, 2008 at 11:29 PM

Crede is worth more than Lowry!The Giants have less talent in the minors than the White Sox and are years away from competing in the West. Why did they sign Rowand? They have nobody else at any position. Cain and Lincecum are the only players worth anything and they think they are gold. They are both still unproven in my book. Meanwhile Crede has a Silver Slugger, a World Series Ring, Should have won at least one Gold Glove Chavez won and if there was a MVP award for the entire postseason he would have won that too in 2005. He's had surgery to repair his back, If all we can get is Lowry I'll take the draft pick after the Sox lose him in Free Agency because of Boorass. Hey Pierzynski4prez...watch out, I think Ohan is trying to sweet talk ya, assbag is a term of endearment in SF

Posted by: rfro | January 23, 2008 at 11:51 PM

Oh geeze, looks like school might have gotten out…

Anyway, here you go WhiteSox10:
(and remember, and OPS+ of 100 is average)

Joe Crede OPS+ marks:
2003 ~ 92, 2004 ~ 83, 2005 ~ 96, 2006 ~ 107, 2007 ~ 49
5YR Average ~ 85.4 (125 Game Avg per year)

Rolen:
2003 ~ 138, 2004 ~ 157, 2005 ~ 84, 2006 ~ 126, 2007 ~ 89
5YR Average ~ 118.8 (121 Game Avg per year)

Or how about the rest of AL-C 3B…

DET ~ M.Cabrera …Pointless, even ChiSox fans wont argue that one…

DET ~ Inge: 2003 ~ 64, 2004 ~ 109, 2005 ~ 100, 2006 ~ 98, 2007 ~ 80
5YR Average ~ 90.2 (141 Game Avg per year)

CLE ~ Blake: 2003 ~ 93, 2004 ~ 122, 2005 ~ 99, 2006 ~ 114, 2007 ~ 101
5YR Average ~ 105.8 (143 Game Avg per year)

MIN ~ Lamb: 2003 ~ -16, 2004 ~ 119, 2005 ~ 81, 2006 ~ 113, 2007 ~ 112
5YR Average ~ 81.8 (103 Game Avg per year)
(((Lamb only played 28 games in 2003, hence that 5YR of only 81 and lower G/YR average Its been 106.3 OPS+ and 128G/YR the last 4 years though ~ both higher marks than Crede)

So, lets recap the AL-C based on the 5 year averages:
DET ~ M.Cabrera …Easily wins so no point
*MIN ~ Lamb: 4YR Average ~ 106.3 (128 Game Avg per year)* (not factoring 03)
CLE ~ Blake: 5YR Average ~ 105.8 (143 Game Avg per year)
DET ~ Inge: 5YR Average ~ 90.2 (141 Game Avg per year)
Joe Crede 5YR Average ~ 85.4 (125 Game Avg per year)
MIN ~ Lamb: 5YR Average ~ 81.8 (121 Game Avg per year) (includes that 03 season)

…Shoot, seems Crede might only be the 5th best hitting 3B in the AL-C alone!

BTW ~ this didn’t include Gordon or Fields because nether had enough time. Fields posted a 101 and 82 the last two years with Gordon posting an 87 in 2007 incase anyone is interested…

Posted by: darkstar1661 | January 24, 2008 at 12:04 AM

Now, how about highest OPS+ years from AL-C players ranked:
1) 2004 ~ 122 Blake
2) 2004 ~ 119 Lamb
3) 2006 ~ 114 Blake
4) 2006 ~ 113 Lamb
5) 2007 ~ 112 Lamb
6) 2004 ~ 109 Inge
7) 2006 ~ 107 Crede
8) 2007 ~ 101 Blake
9) 2005 ~ 100 Inge
10) 2005 ~ 99 Blake
11) 2006 ~ 98 Inge
12) 2005 ~ 96 Crede
13) 2003 ~ 93 Blake
14) 2003 ~ 92 Crede
15) 2004 ~ 83 Crede
16) 2005 ~ 81 Lamb
17) 2007 ~ 80 Inge
18) 2003 ~ 64 Inge
19) 2007 ~ 49 Crede
20) 2003 ~ -16 Lamb

Rankings:
Blake ~ 1st, 3rd, 8th, 10th, 13th ~ Avg 7
Lamb ~ 2nd, 4th, 5th, 16th, 20th ~ Avg 9.4
Inge ~ 6th, 9th, 11th, 17th, 18th ~ Avg 12.2
Crede ~ 7th, 12th, 14th, 15th, 19th ~ Avg 13.4

…Humm… That gives Crede the worst ranking 5-year peak out of the 5 qualifying 3B in the division! So, how you guys going to explain that one? Let me guess ~ “But 30HR, but 30HR…” ***rolls eyes***

So, wonder what we will hear next from Sox fans as they attempt to prove Crede is somehow just some monster hitter that everyone would be drooling over or whatever… He has averaged fewer games, hasn’t provided near the Avg OPS+ or even single years OPS+ as the others and like I said before, is basically a clone of Inge.

Posted by: darkstar1661 | January 24, 2008 at 12:05 AM

darkstar yet i say u need a hobby u are such a stat freak it makes me feel bad for u that u take ur time to do all that .. do u even have a job

Posted by: futureprospect3 | January 24, 2008 at 08:36 AM

I completely agree. It is one thing to have passion for a team, like I have a great deal of passion for my White Sox. But darkstar, you are an indians fan, why don't you comment on indians threads and keep your nose out of White Sox buisness. All you do is try and bring down Crede. You don't see me coming on your threads and trying to bring down Borowki, your intersting closer that will be great to watch get it handed to him this year. That is because I have a life, so try the same and my your own buisness!

Posted by: PIERZYNSKI 4 PREZ | January 24, 2008 at 11:02 AM

mine

Posted by: PIERZYNSKI 4 PREZ | January 24, 2008 at 11:03 AM

mind. excuse me

Posted by: PIERZYNSKI 4 PREZ | January 24, 2008 at 11:03 AM

Interesting what peoples focus becomes when they have the facts handed to them…

Anyway Future,
Please do us a favor and either talk baseball (if you even can) or don’t talk…

Pier,
So sorry I challenged (and ideally destroyed once and forall) the continual chant of “30 HR, he’s one of the best 3B in the game and will bring great return in trade” that we hear from WS fans constantly. See, I was under the impression that a baseball discussion board was a board in which people got together to discuss baseball. I guess I’m wrong on that though, and apparently its actually a place where teenagers are supposed to get together and repeat erroneous statements while trying to make fun of anyone who disagrees…

BTW, that post took maybe 5-10 Mins as I copied some CDs ~ its not like looking up the actual evidence is some time consuming project that takes days to accomplish. That’s why its beyond comprehension that certain people can repeat the same illogical things over and over and over again. Instead of all the time Future took posting his rather embarrassing, mindless dribble, he could have taken the 2-3 mins to actually look up some facts and save himself some face. Maybe you personally want thread after thread of children who cant put sentences together calling eachother names, I would just rather have 1 or 2 posters stepping up to provide the actual facts in an attempt to shut said children up…

Posted by: darkstar1661 | January 24, 2008 at 12:20 PM

ok darkstar just stop tryin to bash our white sox and we wont say nething to u we are tryin to talk baseball but ur always tryin to bash players and people get frustrated so for now on lets just talk baseball

Posted by: futureprospect3 | January 24, 2008 at 12:32 PM

Oops, forgot the last paragraph on that post…

Lastly, want to go onto Indians threads and complain about JoBo ~ feel free… You’ll probably notice two things though: A) you’ll have a hard time proving such a thing with stats ~ his ERA ballooned because of his play in non save opportunities. B) You wont have a bunch of mindless posts without a point or facts thrown at you ~ nor will you likely have people calling you names. It seems to only be people in the Chicago areas who do these such things when someone mentions those teams in a less than idealistic way…

And, you DID comment on both of the Indians threads that were posted yesterday!

To the new post:
Future, please point out where A) you were trying to reasonably talk baseball B) Where I was just bashing players (bashing would be non-substantiated negatives thrown out in an attempt to unreasonably discredit a player, pointing out the actual facts hardly seems bashing) and C) Why would you get frustrated when you see someone post the truth? Why not just accept said truth and move on instead of flying off the deep-end in an attempt to hold onto unrealistic fantasies?

You (and others) tried to say I was bashing the Sox in the other thread too. Ironically, I hadnt really said a single negative about them though and had just provided stats. Of course the same people having problems here were the same people calling me names in the face of said facts, but that is an issue within you guys ~ not anyone else...

Posted by: darkstar1661 | January 24, 2008 at 12:47 PM

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Odds and Ends: Cano, Colon, Lowry

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