Reds Sign Corey Patterson

XD23 - Atlanta? As a Braves fan I hope not. By then Jordan Shafer (sp?) should be ready to take over in center and Brandon Jones in left.

I was thinking about Correy Patterson to the Reds, but I just didn't see it happen since they already have top prospect Jay Bruce, Norris Hopper, and Ryan Freel for the center field competion along with the Reds going for Kenny Lofton. I also didn't see this happening since Patterson and Reds Manager Dusty Baker don't have a very good relationship. I don't really watch much of the Cincinnati Reds, so for any reds fan, was this a good move for them?

I'm a Braves fan. They have two of my fav players Smoltzie and Teixeira. And I have watched 90% of the games since I started to watch baseball in 1993.

Patterson is a great CF. And he has great speed. After you see Kotsay play for a couple weeks and get hurt you will wish ya didn't have to throw the kids out there.

Maybe we should rename the Reds the Cincy Cubs...lol

This is actually huge, because being able to relegate Bruce to AAA to jilt him out of a free agency year is exactly the kind of forward-thinking in which I did not expect the Reds to engage. Maybe they are getting wiser.

As a Cubs fan I love seeing C-Pat on the Reds. If he does get the gig it will be great for our pitchers...we can just through him 3 straight curveballs low and in, and watch him striker out on three pitches.

This'll work out well for the Reds. After the inevitable injuries to Griffey and Freel, they'll still have a solid outfield option.

They should bring the hole 2003 Cubs back
1B- Randol Simon
2B- Mark Grudzielanek
3B- Edwin Encarncion- ( He can stay and act like Aramis Ramirez)
SS- Alex Gonzalez (The other one the one who was on the Cubs in 2003)
C- Paul Bako
RF- Sammy Sosa
CF- Corey Patterson/ Kenny Lofton
LF- Moises Alou

If traded and signed all these people from the Cubs from 2003 maybe they will have a shot to be good. I doubt it though.
GO CUBS 08

I'm a Cubs fan and I'm not spoiling it. I wish Cory the best. He has had a tough time since breaking in the majors. I do think that his defense will be a good help to the Reds, and I think its a great signing if it really is a minor league deal. Good jobs Reds...I don't see how you don't finish at least third in this division. I'm not saying that being arrogant either, I'm saying at least 3rd, and probably around 84 wins if the core players stay healthy. A lot is depending on the back end of that rotation.

Alright, hey this is a great signing. C-Pat will really help your team. All you need to do is teach him how to hit a breaking ball low and inside and he'll finally realize all of his potential. Maybe this will be the year. Go Reds.

How much $$$ did he get?

"Another ex-Cub"? Try another ex-Oriole!

AHHH CUBS BIAS AHHH!

:)

Corey Patterson is a very talented player that doesn't get his due. He is much better than his career stat line that everyone (not you bjsguess) throws out there and it gets tiring seeing the same Corey bashing like he's some spare part. I remember another guy named Eric Byrnes that went to the Orioles aroudn the same time and was a bust, everyone crapped all over him and now he's an integral part of the Diamondbacks!

I'm not saying Patterson's an all-star or ever a franchise player, but for God sakes he isn't supposed to be a HR hitter and his "lack" of power is not that big of a deal. If he gets 20 more hits a season everyone would be talking about how he's a poor man's Ichiro. The guy is solid and plays great defense with his solid glove, above average range, and strong arm. For what he does and what he brings to a club he's very talented and there should be room on any team for a guy like him... except the Reds, but I'll cover that in a second. The other thing is Patterson probably won't make the team out of spring training as they would still have to add him to the 40-man roster. The main reason for his exclusion is that there are too many guys, like Freel and Hopper for instance, that are higher on the depth charts.

Everyone is trying to figure out where he should bat when the real question is when will he even be added to the 40-man roster and at who's expense? Patterson would see a rise in power numbers while playing at GABP, but even though he's capable of hitting the long ball, again I reiterate, that's not really his game. The only way this trade makes sense is if they plan to trade away Griffey, Freel, or Hopper to clear out some overflow in the OF.

Griffey would probably only approve a trade to Seattle and I can't see that happening with Vidro as DH, Wilkerson freshly signed in RF, and Ibanez entrenched in LF... we'll ignore even speculating on the reasons he won't play CF as that would take too long and the answers for that are too obvious. If the Reds were willing to take Vidro in return to be a utility infielder/pinch-hitter then this deal makes a lot more sense and Griffey would be set for a return to the Northwest.

I'm surprised the Reds signed him because I don't see him as a good fit for the ball club. The reds lack the typical 1B & 3B power to allow a contact hitter to start on a NL team in the OF. In the AL you can suffer through having a below average power hitter in your outfield with a power hitting DH, 1B, and 3B, but in the NL you have to have a few extra middle of the order hitters from either the catcher or middle infielder positions. He's also lefthanded which doesn't make a lot of sense since your 1B whether Hatteberg or Votto is a lefty, Griffey & Dunn are lefties and that leaves only Phillips and maybe Encarnacion to fill the middle of the order spot that is typically given to a righty. I think the biggest need for the Reds is a power hitting righty cause it's sad to see Aurilia, Gonzalez, and Encarnacion as a cleanup hitter and Phillips should bat 1 or 2 in the lineup with his speed due to it being wasted in the cleanup or 3-hole positions.

My off subject tangent is that Dunn should really be batting 6th or 7th like McGwire did for so long in Oakland. He has too many strikeouts to bat in the cleanup spot or 5 hole and those needs should've been addressed before adding another lefty to the mess of an OF that the Reds have. I'm aware that it's a minor league deal, but it's not a money issue, rather it's a playing time issue.

They now have to find at bats for Griffey, Dunn, Freel, Hopper, Patterson, Bruce, and Anderson during spring training and you never want to exceed about 5 or 6 outfielders or you steal valueable at bats that help prepare the hitters for the season. The young guys need this time as well so they can become acclimated with the big league pitchers and it lessens the shock of promotion as it's hard enough making that transition.

As for Boras, someone wanted to see the super agent get burned by Patterson and then see the young outfield sign a minor league deal. I'll try and be brief since that's not my style... He did get burned and in the worst way. They were looking for a major league deal, multiple years, and in the 5-10 million dollar range and they accomplished none of it. So look for Patterson to drop Boras and at the worst time for his agent to get dumped, when he's on a minor league deal and the agent failed to live up to his reputation as being able to suck water from a stone. This deal and the lack of one for Kyle Lohse is a strong indicator that ownership will ONLY deal with Boras if they have to in order to get a marquee player. As it is, there was a couple guys like Rogers and Pay-Rod that did better for themselves without Boras being involved and other players are starting to take note. While it's not showing up in the presses as to what's going on behind closed doors, there is an aire of desperation about Boras these days that no one has ever seen before and you can see it written all over his face! This is a guy that's about to lose a large number of his clients over the next couple years and the fallout won't happen until after some of these long-term deals drop off and his original crop of budget breakers hit free agency again. Expect Teixeira to get a new agent as well as most of the players that are due for free agency next season.

Anecdote of the day: It wasn't long ago that every big signing was attached to Boras and now you look at this season and most of the big deals seem to be done by everyone but him. Who would've thought that Andruw Jones would have got so little in both years and money. Hmmm, times are changing for the better it seems!

Baseballguru, after reading that last rant, you should be his agent.

I agree that Patterson brings some positive things to a ball club with his speed and defense.

But you obviously knew you were wrong to say, "he is much better than his career stat line". That's why you felt the need to defend it. The fact is he is who his lifetime stat line says he is.

I was a little surprised that he couldn't find a deal sooner. They must have been being unreasonable in their asking price.

Corey Patterson can start on a second division club and maybe be a fourth outfielder on a contender. That's what his value is. And you forgot to mention that his baseball IQ is one of his biggest problems.

Patterson was messed up on the Cubs because he had hit 3rd his whole career in the minors, and then was moving around in the majors (leadoff, second hitter, 3rd) and the Cubs were confusing him on how to use his speed and power.

His time with the Oriels he learneda lot.

.265/.350 25 HRs 25 Steals would be a good centerfielder for the Reds. What about Bruce? Send Griffey packing in June and call him up.

Oh my goodness how in the world are so many of you in love with Patterson? He took this long to get a job because

1. He can't hit or get on base.
2. He's not a great fielder.

Who cares if he's fast? If you can't get on base, it's not very useful. Speed doesn't help your fielding if you can't track the ball either.

Every offensive stat says Patterson is bad and every fielding stat says he's below average to bad. Maybe that just means he's bad.

I would call him a poor man's Juan Pierre. People already realize Pierre is terrible and Patterson is even WORSE than that.

As for the effect of stolen bases, each successful steal is worth about .16 runs and each caught stealing is about .37 runs. So in Patterson's career, his net gain of runs from stolen bases (168 SB, 41 CS) is about 11 runs. 11 runs in 856 games. Steals don't help that much. 11 home runs in 856 games produces more runs than that. Patterson does steal at a good clip (80%), but steals are VASTY overrated. They are good in certain situations, but don't have an affect on probably at least 97% of the plays.

And as for a runner on first distracting the pitcher, the speed is generally irrelevant. If you look at data analyzing how the a runner on first affects a pitcher (basically splits between having a runner on or not), it has been shown that speed is not a factor. Any runner, no matter the speed, is what helps. If you look even closer at the data, it's not even the pitcher who's affect. It's generally the gap created because the 1B has to play closer. So slow Pat Burrel getting on base at a 400 clip will distract the pitcher and defense more often than someone speedy getting on at a 300 clip like Patterson. Getting on base is good guys. don't forget that.

By far the most important things in baseball are pitching, hitting, and defense. Patterson does none of those well. He's a nice bench guy who pinch run (no pinch hit) but if he's starting, then it's probably a bad team.

And as for Adam Dunn, people are crazy for not slotting him 3rd or 4th. Career .381 OBP is good. He gets on base. That is good. Would you rather have someone with a .330 OBP (Brandon Phillips) getting more at bats than him and therefore creating more outs? Outs are bad! And Dunn also happens to be the best power bat on the team (cause Griffey is old).

I have said this many times and I will say it again: strikeouts are irrelevant for hitters. Outs are outs. It doesn't matter how you make them. They are BAD. Yes, sometimes putting the ball in play will let you move a runner or get a sac fly. But the 5% (or whatever it is) of the time that happens is canceled out by the 3% of the time that a double play occurs. Strikeouts are irrelevant for hitters! All that matters is that he makes outs at a low rate by having a good OBP. Adam Dunn gets on base a lot and hits a lot of home runs and doubles. He's good at hitting. Now fielding is a different story...

Once Again, Ill take him anyday on a Minor League Deal.

Agreed Corey on a Minor League Deal is a terrific acquisition. Unless you are blocking young future stars! Reds shouldn't do that.

Victor, what the hell are you smoking?!

OBP is used to evaluate the first two or three guys, but not a cleanup hitter or 5-hole guy. The #3 guy is your best hitter on the team, not the highest OBP and that comment of yours is why you are not a manager!Cleanup hitters and 5 hole guys are evaluated by their ability to drive in runs and that's it! Homeruns are usually a contributing factor, but they we look at Dunn: A .264 batting average does not qualify you for best hitter on the team and in addition to this his average with RISP [Runners In Scoring Position (wasn't sure if you could be trusted to comprehend this)] being .239 against righties and .245 against lefties, yup that sounds like a guy who knows how to CLEANUP the base paths. Victor says, "Wow, so like wait are you saying that like they call them the cleanup hitter because they do all the hitting thingy with the stick that like totally moves the guy around so that there are no other guys out there on his team after he hits?" (are you chomping gum and spinning your hair while you say this?) Continuing on, Dunn had a total of 40 HRs last season WOW! *pause* He had 7 of those 40 HRs with 56 of his 106 RBIs while there were RISP. That's pathetic!

Phillips as I stated is not an ideal canidate for cleanup but he at least hit .269 against righties and .268 against lefties and had 61 out of 94 RBIs with RISP last season. If he played a full season at cleanup hitter, he would probably have closer to 120 RBIs based on last seasons performance. Let's get back to the real point of this which is THEY NEED A NEW RIGHT-HANDED, MIDDLE OF THE ORDER BAT, not a top/bottom of the order lefty.

Cubs World Champs please B4 I die, true that he is nothing like Juan Pierre, but just to point out, he struck out a total of 65 times over 461 ABs, which is a sign he is not the free swinger he once was!

sweetswingingbw,

Oh please enlighten me about why I do something with your worldly knowledge of all things great and small. From the way you argue about what it is that I'm doing and why I do it, obviously we need to emphasize the "all things small" part of your worldly knowledge! Don't tell me why I write something, if anything it's because I'm an arrogant assh*le that thinks the 20% of the bloggers like you are too stupid to get it and tare apart someone else's comments in order to spin what they say, even when it's totally out of context in regards to what they actually said or meant. By the way what have you contributed in terms of original thoughts, stats, or well anything besides tipping apart my post?! Don't post directly to me if you are going to act like you have a micro-scrunch of an idea about what I'm thinking. Like I said, I'm arrogant and self-righteous, but I'm not defending or spining it like a guilty person who feels like they've been caught. The fact of the matter is that my IQ is so far past the threshhold to genius that when a window licker like yourself comes around, I don't know whether to wave down the short bus so you can get on or kick you in front of it, to put you out of your misery. Don't presume to understand me as the novel you would have to interpret to do so would come without the visual illustrations you require in order to comprehend the theories written.

I just want to claim self-defense as opposed to mental homicide. I know there aren't supposed to be personal attacks on here, but when you argue about the intent of my comments repeatedly then you deserve whatever you get.

cubz1life2nd, Jay Bruce isn't being blocked by anyone but Ken Griffey Jr. Jay Bruce is a right fielder. He CAN play center but is it a smart idea to have a guy who's so young and already seems to have leg trouble covering the ground for Griffey AND Dunn? It's a hard enough job for speedy centerfielders. Also will you ever give up the whole wah wah Dusty ruins everything sctick that every single Cubs fan runs with?
The key quote about Patterson and Hairston Jr. is this from Wayne Krivsky: "No promises or guarantees have been made to either guy."

with griffey and dunn in the OF, you need a bolt of lightning with a glove. I think that is what they signed. Lofton is not nearly the fielder he once was.