How To Fix The Mets

Are the Mets trying to morph into the Yankees? What would the payroll actually be with C.C., K-Rod and all of those other guys?

CC Sabathia will be damaged goods next year.

I agree with a lot of Ken Davidoff's suggestions. Oliver, Rivera, and Tatis will not be expensive. I don't care about Helms. I'd sign Garland, Lowe, and K-Rod or Fuentes. Let Pedro and Perez walk. They suck.

Davidoff is building the NL version of the Angels. He would acquire:

Garland
Rivera
Oliver
K-Rod

That's funny.

Perez sucks? Can you tell me a big game he hasn't come up absolutely huge in?

I'm glad the Mets don't seem to be really considering trading Wright or Reyes. Remember: the Phillies underperformed in 2005 and 2006. They didn't over-react by trading Rollins, Utley, or Howard. Would be dumb for the Mets to trade Wright, Reyes, or Beltran (who hit and played stellar defense in September.)

What would I do to fix the mets.

Resign Ollie
pickup Delgado's option
Sign Derek Lowe
sign fuentes
sign darren oliver
Sign Milton Bradley to play lf

trade/release
Heilman, duaner sanchez, schoe, castillo

Let niese, kunz and parnell pitch out of the pen next year .
Dan murphy make 140 starts at 2b even if he makes 15 errors.

Mr Wilpon we need you to spend anther 30 million this offseason though 21 million is coming off the books(pedro + alou)

Would the Wes Helms signing be a preemptive move to keep him from keeping them out of the playoffs again? Very shrewd.

rearden, i got a game for you. how about last week against the cubs where delgado personally staked him to a 4 run lead before perez gave it away in the very next inning.

the problem with perez is he takes it way too easy with teams he should be able to master. you can't have that in a pitcher who wants $12-15 mil a year.

i'd sign cc but i'm very leery after seeing the way the brewers used him.

sign k-rod and the angels listed above

Franz,

You're right, that game was a dud. But you gotta admit, 9 times out of 10 he's money in the bank when it counts. The Phillies didn't score a run on him this year until, I believe, his 4th start against them. He dominates the Yankees and Braves. Game 7 in 2006, etc.

Plus he's not an injury risk ala Burnett/Sheets.

Btw, I would keep Sanchez around. Why not see if he has the typical "2nd year after surgery" bounceback?

Perez didn't come up "big" in the final game vs the Marlins. He is a good pitcher the stuff of a #2 but the mind of a 4 or 5. Plus he walks to many.

I never thought about Bradley. That's an interesting choice and if you're going to play Murphy at 2nd, I like the idea of signing Bradley to play LF. You can use Tatis as a bench bat and someone to provide a day for either LF or RF.

I'd sign Garland over Lowe simply because he's younger and probably less expensive than Lowe. Either or would do though. I'm also assuming they resign Perez.

Oliver Perez was NOT great on Sunday...he was all over the place, and only went 5.1 innings. That's not greatness. He can go, I won't miss him. He can be replaced.

too bad this didn't work...
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/struggling_mets_combine_to_form

"Perez sucks? Can you tell me a big game he hasn't come up absolutely huge in?"

Sunday.

That said, he's terrible against the garbage teams. Look at his record against the Giants the past 2 years. Also, look at his BB totals this year. I don't want to watch him for the next 4 years and not knowing how he'll be day in and day out. There's no consistency with him.

if you're going to get chipper (never happening) then why let go of delgado when they are the same age and chipper is the much bigger injury risk?

they let al reyes go two weeks ago so that's not happening either.

TruDru, are you high?

Lowe is probably the 2nd best pitcher out there - he's going to get more than people think. I'm thinking $45M over 3 years.

It's pointless to say what the team should do without knowing what the players will cost. Sign Oliver Perez for $30M over 3 years? Sure. But $75M over 5 years? No way.

It was painfully obvious to non-Mets fans that they didn't have the pitching this year.

Let's face it - the entire staff (rotation and pen) is a complete mess. It's so bad that I think the best move is to do the unthinkable - trade one of their young studs for more depth.

Reyes seems to be the most overrated - what would he fetch? I'm thinking something like the Garza trade. If they can get a package including a young #2 starter, and bullpen help, I think they have to do it.

Guys I'd be looking at include Baker, Cain, Guthrie, Danks, etc.

Let's just take the Sox for example - Cabrera will be gone, and it's not clear that Ramirez can play short. Reyes for Danks and Thornton?

Risky move for sure, other than spending $300M on free agents, I can't think of any way to fix this team.

it's hilarious when non-mets fans say the same thing. trade the young core. you would like that, wouldn't you? let me guess and trade them to the team that just happens to be your favourite, right?

it ain't happening, guys, so keep it movin'

I'm not saying it's a terrible idea, but I'd be wary of signing CC if only to avoid having 2 pitchers on your staff with 7+ year deals at $20MM+ per year. That's scary if one or both get hurt or, heaven forbid, come down with Barry Zito Syndrome.

carlos beltran goes nowhere.

What makes everyone think that Atlanta will trade Chipper to the Mets? You really think that they want to have him in the same division? It doesn't make sense at all. I'd rather sign and trade Delgado, move Murphy to 1st and pick up someone like Garciaparra or Casey to split time. Both would give a verteran presence and leadership to the team. You also get Orlando Hudson for 2nd who is media friendly and take some media pressure off of Wright. I would also get Bradley to play left and eventually bring up F-Mart.
For starting pitchers, get Dempster and Garland to round out the lineup. And I would take a chance on Mitre, the kids was an ace till he got hurt and you can always move him to the pen. Closer get either Fuentes or Wood and keep Ayala as insurance.

i doubt the cubs let wood go. he wants to be back there. i believe the same of dempster. omar can't afford to mess around with the bp. go for the sure thing in k-rod and then fill in the blanks.

Ollie is a young left handed pitcher. YOU NEEEEEEEEVER let them get away. I think ollie gets a 5 year 13.5 mil deal.

Lowe 4 year 13 mil deal.
Both affordable for the mets.

You resign delgado because its only one year, not a huge commitment. Next offseason the mets can explore a trade for 1b or go out and sign Nick Johnson.

I think the milton bradley move would solidify the offense.

Yea trading wright and reyes..won't happen.

Asking chipper jones to come to ny is liek asking pat burrell to come to ny.

Daniel murphy playing 2b isnt crazy. He is a natural 3b. Orlando hudson is not coming to the mets. We have that guy castillo who makes too much money.

Carlos Beltran overrated? I dont think so. The guy was 13th in the league in vorp. He is valuable because of his all around game.

I only want lowe because penny is horrible pitching in ny and garland hasnt shown me anything.

i said this yesterday about the mets and this is coming from a phillies fan. the way you fix them is break up the wright reyes beltran. you trade beltran for a young starter a bullpen arm and some prospects. this gives you salary relief and if im not mistaken isnt f-mart a cf. you let him play everyday and develope cause the mental stabilty of this team is kinda of shaky considering what happen the past two septembers. you have a nice young core with reyes, wright, pelfrey, maine, johan, murphy. the comment about the phillies not breakin up their core is dead on. what we did to put us over the top was get a new GM. come on how did he get a 4 year extention??

shocker! a phillies fan telling the mets to break up their core! yawn...

nick johnson to the mets? nah, can the guy play one year without injury before we place some kind of value on him?

milton bradley's not a bad idea...but the mets' lack of a go-to guy in the clubhouse who will keep him in check could make him a dicey proposition.

Beltran is too valuable at this point. Fmart lost this year due to injuries so I dont expect him to contribute this year. Put it simply, if the mets had an mlb average pen they would of won the divison by 5+ games. the mets had 29 blown saves this season, league avg was 22. We were just a good team with the worst bp in the history of good teams.

you know nick johnson is coming to the mets. Omar loves all the nats. and I expect nick johnson to play something like 120 games nick evans to play the other 40 at 1b.

If we sign Bradley, we do the same thing the nat did with elijah dukes. get him a personal babysitter to keep him out of trouble.

You don't break up the core of the Mets unless they get someone of equal value back. If you tell me that I can trade Reyes and Bletran for Pedroia or Ellsbury and Yukilis then I may consider it. Otherwise you keep the core together.
The Cubs would let Wood go because they have a guy called Marmol. I want nothing to do with Nick Johnson. And the Mets are going to trade Castillo and will eat part if not all of his contract, so they will go after Hudson.

your core has worked so far hasnt it??? Beltran isnt part of your core. your core is reyes wright and johan. i mean keep it together and you will be lookin at the phils again in the post-season.

they go after o-dog then what about murphy?

marmol's good but are the cubs really ready to hand him the keys. i would guess that means jeff samardzija would be the set-up man?

umm right, derman...keep dreaming.

http://www.metsprospectus.com

Come here for all your Mets info!

You can't blame the problems of the past 2 seasons on the core players. Beltran is part of your core. Look at how long he is signed for. The Mets need veteran compliments on the team to lead the yung guys. They need a Paul O'Neil, Keith Hernandez type that will get in a players face and will bust their ass every game.

yup.

why am i going to keep dreaming all you mets fans just keep saying wait til next year. well have fun saying that again

i cant see us spending all this money on 2b. Orlando hudson is not going to put us over the top. if we eat half of castillos contract and then have to pay hudson 8.5 mil a year thats 12 million a year for a 2b. Just doenst make sense when we can plug in dan murphy at 2b(he cant be worse than uggla) and spend the money on fuentes

Okay, I apologize in advance for the long post, but on behalf of all Mets fans, this must be said.

I have had just about enough of Mike Francessa and all these non-Met fans demanding the core be dismantled. The endless comparisons to the Phillies core, who, according to Francessa, is a grizzled, brothers-in-arms unit that puts the Mets' core to shame. Here are some facts:

1) The Phillies core underachieved for two years just like the Mets' core has. We don't hear about that though because Philly is nowhere near the baseball market NY is.

2) The Phillies played competent baseball down the stretch last year. Not great baseball, competent baseball. They owed that year's division crown to the most epic collapse in baseball history.

3) Francessa has gone on and on today about how "the Phillies' core has won." They've won 2 division titles in a row, and y'know what, much respect for that. But let's not get carried away here! They eeked out a playoff berth last year courtesy of the collapse, where they were promptly swept by the Colorado Rockies. They still haven't won a playoff game this decade. Francessa would have you believe they're the 98 Yankees in the making.

4) The Mets came within one game of the 2006 WS, a season in which they utterly dominated the league. Why did they do that? The presence of guys like Cliff Floyd, and a reliable bullpen. Francessa is saying the Mets choked in game 7 that year. Guess who choked in a game 7 in 2003? The Red Sox, who have gone on to win 2 titles lay the foundation for a dynasty.

The bottom line is this: David Wright is the Eli Manning of the Mets. The talent is there, the potential is there, but the leadership, ice-in-the-veins mentality isn't there yet. I believe it will come. Is part of that emotionally driven, as a 21 year old Mets fan who has been dying for exciting, home-grown players?

Partly. But I think the next few years will erase these past two.

you have to understand with the yankees and mets out, he's got nothing to talk about. he doesn't touch hockey, the knicks are pointless, the nets even more so. the giants were off and the jets...are the jets so...it's the mets' choking job. we're just going to have to deal with it this offseason. hopefully the giants continue showing the nfl what's up so it lightens the abuse.

see. the problem with phillies fans is they actually believe their team matters. no one cares about your team.

this "rivalry" was constructed in 2004 in order to give yourselves validation. you won two straight divisions. congrats, you earned them both but please don't believe that it means anything in the grand scheme unless you actually take it to the house. something no philly team has done since the sixers.

if you actually read my post im saying keep reyes wright theres no need to trade them you have them locked up for cheap. the sixers comments are irrevelant yeah philly knows when we last won a championship it what we are used to hearing in blogs from bitter met fans and that we got swept in three games in NLDS but if you recall they did the same thing to the diamondbacks and they also won 21 out 22 games to but that doesnt matter. but what matters is that we were in the playoffs to get swept.

1983.

deal with it. reyes, wright and beltran are staying. now go follow your phillies and let the adults get back to their conversation.

First of all, I would like to say we have been through this before, and we will get through it. Met fans are strong. We have to be, because the weak one’s don’t remain Met fans for that long. We will get come back and get through this starting about a month from now when free agency starts.

That said, this team needs a serious change. Most of you are by now used to my rants about the flaws of the Mets, and a lot of you probably thought I was nuts, ripping an offense that from the outside looking in, looks very solid. They cannot score in big games. They cannot manufacture a run unless Reyes gets on and steals with 0 outs, and even then there are no gauruntees. Going back to 2006, the Mets offense has come up short in every big game they have played, and in most cases, it is not against a real dominating pitcher. I am not even sure what the change should be, but I think it could involve teading away Reyes or Wright. I know, I know. We can’t trade Wright. He is the team leader. He is the face of the franchise. I know. But the fact is, he is the leader of a team that has never gotten past the NLCS, when it was expected to contend for a world series for 3 years, in two of those years we fell short of the playoffs. He is the face of the franchise, but the harsh reality is that he is the face of a franchise that when people hear, their first thought is chokers. The face of a franchise that missed out on the playoffs the past 2 years, despite holding their largest leads of each season with just 17 games to play. The face of a franchise that for the second time in a rowhas been beaten by the Marlins out of our playoff spot.

I love David, but in my opinion he is more expendable, from a pure baseball standpoint, then Jose Reyes or even Carlos Beltran are. Jose Reyes is among 2 or 3 shortstops in the game that can do what he does, both in the field, and at the plate. There just are not many .290/.360/.460 type shortstops with gold glove tier defense and 50 stolen base type speed. Think about it. How many do you know? And the kid is 25, and locked up with a team friendly deal. Even Carlos Beltran, how many .275/.375/.500 type hitters with game changing defense are there playing CF in the majors right now? There are not a lot of them, trust me.

And the fact of it is, and this is strictly my opinion, we need a drastic change. Something big. And sadly, the answer may be David Wright. People will look to Reyes’ lousy September and put the blame on him, but in reality he was just outstanding for almost the entire season. He was a rock for us this year. I know the numbers will not suggest it, but for the Mets fans that watched every single game, I know that you see the change in his approach. He rarely ever uses RF anymore, and he strikesout a ton in really huge RBI spots, which was never a trait of his. We used to count on him as our go to guy in RBI spots, with runners on 3rd and less then 2 outs, using the whole field and almost always delivering. That approach appears to be gone, replaced by a power stroke, with a lot more holes in it. I fear if he continues trying to hit that way, that his numbers will begin to reflect his new style of hitting, which is not a good thing.

I could be wrong, but I think that putting David’s name out there, and starting a possible bidding war for him could get us a huge bounty. Just a suggestion. If you could get a Brandon Phillips and Johnny Cueto type package from the Reds, do you go for it? How about to LAD for Matt Kemp and Clayton Kershaw? What about to Cleveland for Grazy Sizemore? To the Angels for Howie kendrick and Ervin Santana? Maybe even Lackey since he is going to be a free agent in a year or two. What about to Texas for a deal based around Ian Kinsler or Josh Hamilton? Not all of these are realistic, but there would be endless oppurtunities to get very good talent back, and where the same is the case with Reyes and Beltran, perhaps even more so, because good CF’s and SS’s are so hard to find, especially in this market, it would be very hard to replace Reyes or Beltran next year on a team wanting to win right now. If we moved Wright, we could sign a guy like Joe Crede, and don’t get me wrong, I know Crede is no David Wright, not even close, but he would provide a good glove and probably 20-25 homeruns, without the OBP of David. You could move Murphy back to 3B, where he has spent his most time. You could sign Case Blake. You could have a platoon. The point is, where you definitely would not get all of the production back that you lose from Wright, you could get some of it back, definitely more then you could get back if you moved Reyes or Carlos Beltran. I am sorry for the rant, I just thought it was something to think about.

I also want to make it clear, I do not just want to move Wright for the hell of it. That is not the case. I do not even blame Wright for what has happened, it was a total team effort. Besides Beltran and Santana, nobody came up big down the stretch for the Mets, nobody. I will say, for the millionth time, that I hate Wright's new power hitter approach, and I think he is lucky his numbers did not reflect the change in his style of hitting. I hope he gets back to what he was coming into the bigs, or else I think his numbers will begin to decline with his new approach. But still, I am not even saying I necesarrily want to move him. I only move him if I can get a very, very good package back for him. Another very good young player, or a package centered around a guy like Kershaw or Cain. Maybe straight up for Grady Sizemore? I don't even know, but it is something to think about. I would love nothing more then for the 3 core guys the Mets have to lead them to a championship, but the last 2 years, we just don't seem to have the toughness that guys like Braun, Fielder, Utley, and Rollins showed in the really big games. I think, if not moving one of the core guys, the Mets need to acquire a good, tough, gritty player who does all the little things right, like Keith Hernandez in the 80's. Somebody that would never let 07 and 08 happen.

"And the fact of it is, and this is strictly my opinion, we need a drastic change"

Lol, ughh. Sorry. Was thinking of two things at once and typed that up. Pretty stupid, huh? The Mets have my head all messed up, sorry about that. I meant to say that this is just my opinion.

disagree. you're already ready to give up on a 25 year old third baseman who's put up some brilliant stats his first four years in the pros. that's like the cards giving up on pujols for not winning it until 2006. you put a better team in place around the core. if you trade them off, you could very well find yourself in a position where they become mvps on another team and win while you're left holding the bag. the mets have been down this road before and i don't think even the wilpons feel like having more egg thrown in their face.

My posts keep getting lost. I dont know if this is going to come out, so I will post it again. Before people bash me for the names I suggested, I was just throwing some guys off the top of my head without thinking that much into it. I understand if you feel like those names are not worth David Wright.

Franz... that is the thing that most Met fans say when I suggest trading Wright.

"Wilpon won't allow it"

"He is the cornerstone of the team!"

I think Met fans have some weird idea that there is no possible scenario in the world where the Mets could trade David Wright and be a better team next year. They all seem to assume that it would be rebuilding or something. And I get that we are Met fans, so we overvalue Wright. I get all that. But the fact is, they have not won with him yet, and not only have they not won, but they have endured 2 brutal late season collapses, and a change needs to be made. I have a question for Met fans.

If you could trade David Wright, and gauruntee that the team is better next year, would you even do it? I get the feeling most Met fans would still say no. They are just so against even discussing the possibility of the golden boy being traded. And again, I don't move him unless I get a hell of a bounty. I am not suggesting trading him for nothing. There are other teams that have good young players also, David Wright is not the only one.

"Joel Sherman of the New York Post: Sign C.C. Sabathia, even if it takes $150MM over six years. Sherman notes this would lessen the load on the bullpen (Sabathia averaged 7.23 innings per start in '08). I prefer this plan to spending $100MM on K-Rod and a mid-tier starter. "

Agreed, without a doubt.

You all know how against the johan contract I was, but my feeling is, if you are willing to spend 15 million for K-Rod, then spend 20 million or a bit more to try to get Sabathia. I know, it would be extremely risky, but I get the feeling that Sabathia is one of these special, old school type pitchers that can throw all day and not wear down. He threw 3 gems in a row to end the season, all on short rest. He is a complete game machine. He has just obliterated the national league. Him and Johan Santana would form the best 1/2 in the world, to go along with Mike Pelfrey and John Maine, who are both young and cheap. If nothing else, you keep him away from the Phillies/Cubs/Dodgers. I say forget about being fiscally responsible, and just go for it. If one or both go down and it costs you down the road, so be it. Go for it right now, because the Mets will not have a window to win forever. Acquiring Sabathia would certainly make moving one of the core guys unnecesarry. That would be a big enough change, and improvement, to really wake this team up. If they still can't break through, then you blow the whole thing up.

You don't trade Beltran because of his contract. He's not very valuable.

Reyes and Wright are similar in terms of value (based on performance and salary). I say trade Reyes because more of his value is tied up in his speed, and he's "flashier" and "more exciting" (read: overrated).

Nobody else is going to get the impact arms that you need.

If you want, go ahead and sign Sabathia, K-Rod, Fuentes, etc. and (try to) buy a championship.

If you were smart, you'd deal from your strengths.

Get a top young starter and bullpen help for Reyes, trade for a guy like JJ Hardy who's not in Reyes' league but still one of the best SS in baseball (and expendable because of Escobar).

You need offense out of more than 4 positions. 2B, LF, RF, and C are black holes.

Tough to improve at C and Schneider is good, so focus on the OF:

Find a RH hitter to platoon with Church (he has no business playing against lefties). Other OF to look at include Bradley, Rivera, maybe even Abreu if the Yankees don't keep him. The key is to have short-term commitments. Abreu could be had for $30M over 2 years, which is reasonable.

It all depends on what kind of pitching you can get for Reyes. How about Billingsley and a prospect? Cain and Sandoval? That's the type of deals you should be looking at. Cheap pitchers who slot into the #2 hole. Relying on Maine and Pelfrey is a mistake. And despite Santana's great 2nd half, we all know his raw numbers and velocity are down.

Take it from a Yankee fan who now wishes guys like Cano and Cabrera were traded when their value was highest. Reyes has nowhere to go but down, and next year your pitching is going to be WORSE.

So, here is my offseason plan for the Mets, probably the first of many. I will hold off on trading one of the core guys for the time being, atleast until the rumors start and we can gauge the market for them a little bit.

First of all, Dan Murphy plays 2B next year. Agreed with the guy who says throw him out every day, live with his defense if his bat is as it seems.

Resign Pedro, if he is willing to come back on a on year deal for 5 or 6 million with incentives. He will be better next year. I know he will be. He is coming off shoulder surgery last year, and injured his hammy in the first start of the season. He never could get going. When his control returns, which it will, he will be a good pitcher again. People talk about Pedro's dip in velocity, which is just wrong, because Pedro was sitting at 87 or 88 in 2005, when he put up CY young numbers. He is sitting there now, he just does not have the sharpness or precise location back on his pitches yet. He dealt with a lot this year, but even through the struggles he showed he can get guys out. Give the man a shot at redemption.

Let Oliver Perez walk, take your pick(s). This one was tough. You all know I love Ollie. I loved that deal the second they made it, when everybody thought he was finished. But his inconsistency and his high walk totals are just too much to deal with on a start by start basis. Whoever posted earlier has it right. He has the stuff of a number 1 and the mind of a minor leaguer. He just throws. His pitches dont have meaning to them. He doesnt throw one up and in to setup the slider. He just doesn't seem to think, he just throws the ball as hard as he can. This one is 50/50 though, because I would not mind having him back. He wins big games, and I get the feeling that at some point, he will take another step and become a better pitcher.

If you let Perez walk, sign CC Sabathia. Stick him in the rotation with Johan, and with Maine and Pelfey there, that is a dirty looking rotation. If you don't resign Pedro, move Heilman to the rotation and give him a shot to be the number 5 starter before you just release him or trade him for nothing. It couldn't hurt to try. He should eat innings and has the stuff to start. It is no secret that is where he wants to be. I realize Sabathia is unlikely, in which case, move on to Derek Lowe or Kyle Lohse, preferably on a 2 or 3 year deal.

Get rid of Feliciano, Duaner Sanchez can stay or go, but if he stays, it is as the 6th or 7th reliever. Show stays. He faces lefties, and thats it. Bring Ricardo Rincon and Luis Ayala back. Sign Juan Cruz and maybe Doug Brocail. Give Parnell and Kunz shots at a bullpen job during the spring. Let Ayala close games again, and hope that Parnell or Kunz step up and become the heir apparent.

Bring Schneider and Castro back to platoon behind the plate.

Make a serious run at Manny Ramirez. 4 years is not an option. Do anything you can to close him on a 2 year deal. 2 years, 60 million, if you must. He never would have let this offense die out like this late.

Bring back Delgado, that is a no brainer at this point.

SS Jose Reyes
CF Carlos Beltran
LF Manny Ramirez
1B Carlos Delgado
3B David Wright
2B Daniel Murphy
RF Ryan Church
C Brian Scheider/ Ramon Castro

SP Johan Santana
SP CC Sabathia/Oliver Perez/Derek Lowe
SP Mike Pelfrey
SP John Maine
SP Pedro Martinez/Aaron
Heilman

RP Ricardo Rincon
RP Scott Schoeneweis
RP Bobby Parnell
RP Aaron Heilman
RP Juan Cruz
RP Doug Brocail
RP Joe Smith
RP Luis Ayala

That is my first draft. Expect this to be changed many times this offseason.

I would love to get CC and have the best rotations in baseball with CC, Johan, Pelfrey, and Maine. But the Mets do need to address their offense and verteran leadership. They say Delgado is the verteran leader, but what has he really done? He's never won anything. They need someone who has won and knows what it takes to deal with adversity. The Mets crumbled under pressure. I also don't know if I would bring back Manuel. I'd rather see someone like Backman who will get in a players face and demand more from them or bring back Valentine. Randolph was too much Torre, and "everything will be fine" attitude. They need someone to kick them in the ass. Wright should have sat a couple of games down the stretch when he was struggling. He was killing us with the bat and in the field and they just kept putting him out there. Hell Murphy is a 3rd baseman, he could have filled in for a game or 2 so Wright could get his head straight.
Basically the Mets need to have a fire to win and know how go in for the kill. It starts at the top with the Manager and Veteran players. That is the only way the young kids will learn. It's not all about the fancy hand shakes. It's about winning and finishing what they start.

I very much disagree with Bobo.

"You don't trade Beltran because of his contract. He's not very valuable."

I understand what you are getting at, because most teams cannot afford him, but he is the best CF in baseball, maybe 2nd to Grady Sizemore, he is a true 5 tool guy, and he does everything you want him to do. As a yankee fan who has watched Melky for 3 years, you wouldn't want a .275/.375/.500ish guy with top tier defense and 25-30 SB's?

For my money, Carlos Beltran is the Mets best, and least expendable player.

I don't think the Mets need an impact arm. With Johan, Pelfrey, and Maine locked in, the possibility of bringing Perez back, or if not, signing a Derek Lowe or AJ Burnett type of guy will be a pretty good rotation. Pedro, Jon Niese, or even Aaron Heilman could fill the 5th spot.

"Find a RH hitter to platoon with Church (he has no business playing against lefties). Other OF to look at include Bradley, Rivera, maybe even Abreu if the Yankees don't keep him. The key is to have short-term commitments. Abreu could be had for $30M over 2 years, which is reasonable."

I disagree. Ryan Church can hit lefties, it isn't really a problem. The problem is that his brain got rattled off the inside of his head multiple times in 2008, and he just was not the same against anybody upon his return, righties or lefties. The first 2 months of the season, he was hitting very succesfull against LHP. I think Church might be a problem, but if he is, it is because he has not looked like the same guy since his concussions. Perhaps they need a completely new RF, but right now it is too soon to tell.

"You need offense out of more than 4 positions. 2B, LF, RF, and C are black holes."

Well, LF/2B will be filled by Daniel Murphy, who is anything but an offensive blackhole. He looks like the real deal, and not like a guy who came up and just got hot for a few weeks. In my opinion, his approach to hitting is better then any player in the Mets organization, inlcuding major leaguers.

I like the Cain and Sandoval idea, I actually proposed a similar deal a week ago, involving Wright instead of Reyes.

"Take it from a Yankee fan who now wishes guys like Cano and Cabrera were traded when their value was highest. Reyes has nowhere to go but down, and next year your pitching is going to be WORSE. "

Why does Reyes have nowhere to go but down? He is 25, and we have really just scratched the surface of his talent. He hasn't even come close to topping out, a lot of Met fans feel like wastes his potential. It puzzles me that you think his value is on the way down. I might say that of David Wright after his season, that he has nowhere to go but down, but as far as Reyes goes, I almost feel the opposite.

Melky always stunk, and I don't think you could have gotten much for him. Robinson Cano is a different story. You may, at this moment, be wishing that you dealt him when his value was high, but in a year or two you will also be very glad he was not dealt when his value was low. Robinson will bounce back.

"I would love to get CC and have the best rotations in baseball with CC, Johan, Pelfrey, and Maine. But the Mets do need to address their offense and verteran leadership. They say Delgado is the verteran leader, but what has he really done? He's never won anything. They need someone who has won and knows what it takes to deal with adversity. The Mets crumbled under pressure. I also don't know if I would bring back Manuel. I'd rather see someone like Backman who will get in a players face and demand more from them or bring back Valentine. Randolph was too much Torre, and "everything will be fine" attitude. They need someone to kick them in the ass. Wright should have sat a couple of games down the stretch when he was struggling. He was killing us with the bat and in the field and they just kept putting him out there. Hell Murphy is a 3rd baseman, he could have filled in for a game or 2 so Wright could get his head straight.
Basically the Mets need to have a fire to win and know how go in for the kill. It starts at the top with the Manager and Veteran players. That is the only way the young kids will learn. It's not all about the fancy hand shakes. It's about winning and finishing what they start."

I pretty much agree with everything you said. I have the same feelings on everything you touched on, from Delgado to veteran leadership to Jerry Manuel, to David Wright, to CC Sabathia. I agree, the type of acquisition that Keith Hernandez was for them is something that is necesarry. A veteran, tough, smart player who knows how to, and has, won. I am not sure who that guy is right now though, I have to think about it.

the arizona republic is speculating that the mets and Dbacks can agree to a deal involving byrnes and castillo. byrnes 2 year 22 mil and castillos 3 year 18 mil. Sounds like an option. I would love to make this deal and still sign milton bradley. move byrnes to rf bradley in lf. Church becomes our 4th Of or trade bait. I think church and niese for huston street sounds doable.

I am not sure the beef Bobo has with the Mets rotation. For the most part, they were outstanding. The bullpen was bad, sure, but the offense really killed this team late in the year. Pelfrey has made some enormous strides, and although Maine was blehhh, he was pitching hurt. The mets definitely have some holes to fill and some problems to fix, but the rotation is the last thing I am worried about.

raykim, that sounds great. I was thinking yesterday of a deal for Eric Byrnes and Luis Castillo, strangely enough, because of Byrnes bad contract. He certainly has the grit that we have discussed. I am not sure I would trade Niese for Huston Street straight up though, let alone adding another piece. Was never a fan of Street. The castillo/Byrnes thing sounds doable, if Arizona wants to get rid of Byrnes bad contract for another bad contract. Definitely feasible.

Comparing Johan and Beltran is just stupid. I am talking about position players. Comparing Beltran and Wright, Beltran is more valuable right off the bat because he plays a more valuable position and produces almost as much offense. He is a better baserunner, and a better defender. Reyes could be better then Beltran, and you could make the argument either way. But if I am choosing between a high producing offensive CF with great defense and great base path skills, and a 3B with great offense, mediocre defense, mediocre baserunning, and mediocre speed, I am taking the CF everyday.

"your core has worked so far hasnt it??? Beltran isnt part of your core. your core is reyes wright and johan. i mean keep it together and you will be lookin at the phils again in the post-season"

The fact is that the Phillies are only in the playoffs because they had teams collapse infront of them 2 years in a row. Don't get me wrong, they played well, and they finsihed strong, but the Phillies needed some extremely unlikely help with 2 weeks to play 2 seasons in a row.

"3B with great offense, mediocre defense, mediocre baserunning, and mediocre speed"
David Wright is not a mediocre defender even though he didn't deserve the gold glove a year ago he is still an above average defender. He has above average speed he was a 30/30 guy a year ago.

Beltran does play a far more valuable position because if we didn't have Beltran we would be running Chavez out there everyday and he just would not produce offensively.

I like the Castillo for Byrnes deal he is a old school player that has all the intangibles.

I love Wright. But the guy gets away with murder compared to beltran and Reyes.

I honestly cannot see how people have not gotten on Wright all season. He is a homerun happy big hacker all the sudden, where good pitches will get him out everytime. He also never, ever runs out groundballs. Maybe it is because his swing is so much bigger and longer then years past, so it takes him longer to get started, but he really doesn't run hard on the bases. His speed is just average. He is a smart baserunner, but he has been a better baserunner then he was this year. His defense is okay. He makes some sparkling plays, but he also messes up some really routine ones. He doesn't have much of an arm. I love David Wright, it just gets to me how he can do no wrong and Beltran and Reyes are under the microscope, and if one of those guys makes an error it is all over the radio waves for days while Wright just gets a pass no matter what. David Wright 2005-2007 is pretty much untouchable. The 2008 David Wright, not so much.

nrmax your 09 bullpen does not have stokes in it is this an oversight or do you think Stokes should go?

the reason i move niese/church for street is that it saves us money on signing a closer for this year. I want chad cordero when hes a FA after the 09 season.

I agree with you on Wright's swing if he were a 20-25 homerun guy but hit for a higher average and cut down on the strikeouts he would be a much better hitter.

NRMax,

Do you think Wright has it in him to become a leader? I'm at a point now where I'm really trying to assess what he's all about. On one hand, I very fondly recall 2006, when the team was dominating, he was the ring leader, and seemed destined to become our Derek Jeter.

But when he just mails it in like he did in that game vs. the Cubs and comes up totally flat in the last series of the year...man, I just don't know. I have an emotional attachment to this guy, and I *want* him to step up, but I'm not sure he's going to.

I'd really like to keep "the core" intact for one more year and see how it goes with a halfway decent bullpen.

Also, great job to whoever reported that Rollins, Utley, and Howard are all 30 by now. It's premature to give up on Wright or Reyes at 25 years old.

Is there any way in hell we can get Cliff Floyd back? I saw Eric Byrnes being discussed above and think he would be perfect, too. Every time the D-Backs faced the Mets I thought to myself "I'd take him on my team any day."

metsfan... I am not sure about Stokes. He has good stuff, but I dont know if I trust him. His fastball seems flat, and he almost has too much control. It was an oversight for me to leave him out, but at the same time, I am not sure I would gauruntee him a spot in the pen.

raykim... I understand where you are coming from, I just hate trading away prospects for a relief pitcher. Ambioriz Burgos is another guy I forgot about, who had surgery this year and could be healthy for next year. He is a young flame thrower who had some success with the Mets in 2007. I am not a fan of ever really spending a lot of money, or prospects on building a bullpen.

I'd love to see Castillo dumped, but not sure Byrnes is the right move. Why not look for some kind of middle reliever in return since they are so hit and miss anyway. Not too big of a deal if we miss, just need to get rid of Castillo. Then there are a couple of scenarios. Either go after the O-dog and let Murphy develop in left. Hudson would be perfect. A great defensive second baseman with good offense (perfect for our two hole). He is as close to Utley as we could get. Or, if Murphy could work out at second base, then we can explore the market for out fielders. I'd say Milton Bradley makes most sense. and people have talked about Manny for a two year deal, what about Vlad? any of those combos works for me. Id rather sign those guys and some starters instead of K-rod. Of course we'd need to sign a closer such as Fuentes. But I'd stay away from K-rod simply because the money can be better used in the other areas I have talked about. You can get a good enough closer for cheaper because face it, they don't impact as many games as those other roles I've discussed do. Look into signing either Sabathia, and living with Neise as your fifth. Or Split that CC money between Perez and either a Lowe or Garland. Also I love the thoguht of bringing Darren Oliver back.

Sorry for the 3rd post, lol, but the bottom line is still this:

Mets' core achievements: 2006 NL East crown, NLDS sweep, NLCS loss in game 7, one more run scored/one less run allowed from reaching World Series.

Playoff games won: 6

Phillies core achievements: 2007/2008 NL East crowns. Swept out of NLDS by Rockies team who, essentially unchanged, was a non-contender this year.

Playoff games won: 0

When that line changes (and the "core" so much as reaches the NLCS in this decade), we'll talk. The Mets aren't clutch, but the Phillies aren't a dynasty in the making themselves.

How do you fix the Mets? There's no mystery here. Get a Bullpen that can hold a lead. When the Mets put up 7 or 8 runs a game they should win most of the time.

The Bullpen hurt them down the stretch last year and it was non existant this year. Thats the problem. It's not the core. Although I think a firy veteran leader would help and is something that I would look for.

But the problem is the Bullpen. Its as simple as that. Everybody is looking for some answer to some great mystery. There's no mystery. Get relief pitchers that can hold leads.

"NRMax,

Do you think Wright has it in him to become a leader? I'm at a point now where I'm really trying to assess what he's all about. On one hand, I very fondly recall 2006, when the team was dominating, he was the ring leader, and seemed destined to become our Derek Jeter.

But when he just mails it in like he did in that game vs. the Cubs and comes up totally flat in the last series of the year...man, I just don't know. I have an emotional attachment to this guy, and I *want* him to step up, but I'm not sure he's going to.

I'd really like to keep "the core" intact for one more year and see how it goes with a halfway decent bullpen. "

I hear you. I love Wright, he just disapointed me so much this year. I just wonder whether somebody has talked to him about his new approach to the game, or whether he is not even aware of the way his swing has changed. I do think David can be a leader, but I also think that he feels like he has to be a leader right now, when really, I feel like he should just worry about leading by example and taking over this team as a leader a couple years down the road when Delgado is gone and Beltran is nearing the end. I definitely think some of his problems this year were caused by the pressure of feeling like he was the guy, and he had to lead us into the playoffs, which seems caused him to press, trying to do everything himself.

15 months ago the idea of even considering a trade involving David Wright would have been considered lunacy. Now it seems a lot more realistic. I agree, I give the core one more year together, and try to change up the supporting cast. I absolutely do not move Beltran or Reyes, and would not move Wright unless I really felt knocked over by an offer. My post earlier was no to suggest trading Wright is a necessity, only that if they break up the core, to me, he seems the most expendable, and he seems like the one who would go, being the face of a team known as a bunch of chokers. I feel like Beltran is beginning to take on a leadership role also. I cannot say enough about Beltran.

Basically, I definitely think David Wright is capable of being a leader on the field and in the clubhouse, being the Derek Jeter type player who runs New York, and taking the Mets to the promiseland, but the thing is, we can't wait forever, and he has to do it soon. One more year like this and things will definitely have to change, if things arent changed before next year.

Do we all agree that Krod for 15 mil per year is way to much and is not the answer to the bullpen?

I do. Absolutely. You will have a hard time convincing a lot of people of that though.

''Reyes''
O-Dog
Chipper Jones (1B)
Wright
Beltran
Murphy (LF)
Castro
Fmart
Pitcher

What!?! Chipper Jones going to the the Mets to play first? No way that would not happen. You guys could try to trade for Matt Holliday. That would be intresting.

Agreed. If anyone has to go, better him than Reyes or Beltran. (Notice how Beningo has changed his tune on Beltran lately?)

But hopefully they can get this thing figured out. It would bring joyous tears to my eyes for Wright, Reyes, Beltran, Johan, Maine, Pelf, and Murphy to open Citi Field with a World Series title. I say, bring in a Floyd/O-Cab/Byrnes type, a few solid relievers, CC, and give 'em one more crack at it.

Yes. I was completely against giving Johan that huge deal, but now that we have, why not just go for the whole enchilada and give CC and identical contract? I love the idea of Cliffy coming back also. CC/Johan for the next 6 years could become one of the best 1/2 combo's of all time, and really build this into a dynasty. If the Mets would have made the playoffs, my opinion on CC would have been, I am tempted, but have to say no. But now that they missed out again, what the hell?

I also am not interested in giving up a boatload of guys to find out if Matt Holliday is any good outside Coors. Only to see him walk next year. No thank you.

I'm sorry, but the 11-14 year old Mets fan of 1998-2001 in me would NEVER accept Chipper Jones as a Met. He's sent me to sleep unhappy more nights than the 2008 bullpen ever will. Great player, love the stats, but no thanks.

I'd only want Holliday if we signed him, ie giving up just money no players. Someone called WFAN today suggesting trading Wright for him. I think I would start rooting for a new team if that happened.

"I hear what you are saying regarding Larry. I was born in 88, so I was just really getting into the Mets around 96, just in time to watch Chipper destroy them a couple years later almost singlehandedly. That said though, he seems like a good guy and I think that Met fans, while hating him, still respect him. He doesn't run his mouth, he just hits. He is a class act, and I think the Mets fans feel a respect for him and how good he is, and could forgive him for all the bad things he has done to the Mets in the past if he lead us where we want to go. It is an interesting idea, but I understand any Met fan that wants no part of it.

And yes, if David Wright were traded for Matt Holliday, I might just have to kill myself. Well, maybe not. But you get the idea.

David Wright for Matt Holliday is crazy. Holliday isn't that good away from Home and plus the Rockies have Atkins and Stewart for 3B. But I agree with nrmax on how a 3B is a lot easier to come by then a SS, 2B, CF. You got to build your team inside out. C, P, 2B, SS, CF. Most valuable positions on the field.

Something else that I failed to mention before. Last year was a little bit more annoying, because the Marlins were a weaker team a year ago (before they moved Miggy, go figure), but the Marlins are really a helluva team. Talk about a bunch of gritty, tough, hardnose players that want to win. Uggla, Hanley, Cantu, Hammer, Cody Ross, they really are a good team. Before that series started, I told my dad that the Marlins were the last team in major league baseball I want to be playing for these 3 games. Sure, they have trouble catching the ball and their relief pitching is sketchy, but their starting pitching and their lineup is a bunch of guys to not be taken lightly. Next year looks like Fla is ready to make another run for the playoffs. That team really has some hardnosed guys who want to win games. And oh yeah, they are talented players also, not the David Eckstein type of gritty players. Gota tip your cap to the fish, as much as it hurts to say it.

And John Danks isn't a no name pitcher. Theres a reason why he is starting tonights game to deicide whether the ChiSox make it to the playoffs.

The ONLY guy in baseball worth trading David Wright now for is Tim Lincecum. Other than that, I'd keep him until next year. Reyes is one of the most underrated players in baseball. Lock him up.

Next year, the Mets need to sign CC Sabathia to a seven-year, $154 million contract ($22 mil per year), and then trade Carlos Beltran and Nick Evans to the Royals for Joakim Soria. Thoughts?

Sorry for the double post. If they don't have to trade Beltran, then they most definitely shouldn't. Maybe F-Mart (our No. 3 prospect now), Evans, Kunz and a Dylan Owen or a Brant Rustich.

Agreed, he is not a no name guy, but he is not established enough that you consider trading Jose Reyes for him. Think about it, Barroid, I believe you root for the Marlins, but I'm not sure. Jose Reyes and Hanley are different type players, with Jose being a better all around player, and with Hanley being the far superior offensive player, but their similarity is that they are both elite young shortstops in the league. Would you trade Hanley for Jon Danks and Thornton Matt Thornton?

No offense to either of those guys, but I wouldn't.

"Next year, the Mets need to sign CC Sabathia to a seven-year, $154 million contract ($22 mil per year), and then trade Carlos Beltran and Nick Evans to the Royals for Joakim Soria. Thoughts?"

No, I don't think you want to hear my thoughts. Because my thoughts are telling my brain to tell you they think you should kill yourself. Sorry.

Trade the best CF in MLB (top 3 if nothing else) for a closer. Right.

Wait a second. You suggest they trade Beltran for Soria, then in your next post you say they shouldn't trade Beltran? Well, which one is it?

Not that trading Kunz, Rustich (who is hurt), Nando, Evans, and Owen for Soria makes that much more sense.

If the Mets had a closer like Joakim Soria this year, we wouldn't be having this discussion. That's the bottom line. And read my second post. I said that there were options to trading Beltran. A package around F-Mart or Flores could get it done as well. You're very harsh, nrmax88. Lighten up.

"If the Mets had a closer like Joakim Soria this year, we wouldn't be having this discussion. "

They would if Endy Chavez was the everyday CF. Actually, you are right, we wouldn't be having this discussion, because the Mets would have finished like 6 or 7 games out instead of just 1.

LOL. Man, do you ever read your posts before you post them? If the Mets had Soria closing games instead of Ayala, they would be six or seven games out? WHAT!?! Explain yourself, buddy. I'm saying that we can get Soria without Beltran. I'm flipflopping from my first post.

I've heard on Metsblog that Eric Byrnes could possibly be available. Theres a guy I would look to add to adress a right handed bat and our left field situation.

The guy I really like for this team is Chipper. There is an option in his contract but the Braves are rebuilding. If they let him go thats a guy the Mets would have to jump all over and sign. He's a veteran leader. A prolific winner and has expressed interest in playing in New York. The hardest part would be getting him to agree to play 1B. But at this point in his career he could realize that is the best option for him.

Chipper on the Mets would make me gag almost as much as "the two-time defending NL East Champion Philadelphia Phillies" does. Byrnes for Castillo would get the Dbacks GM fired, and yet, it might happen anyway.

TruDru22, if you were the Mets GM, I'd poop my pants in fear.

"Do we all agree that Krod for 15 mil per year is way to much and is not the answer to the bullpen?"

I do. It's not the answer for any team.

Nrmax Im not saying that Thornton and Danks would be good enough for Reyes(its no where close) but its something to build around especially since Danks is only 23 and is a hard throwing left hander.

And Trudru like you say "Delgado should be moved for new leadership and to get age off this team. the likelihood of him repeating what he did this year is very very low." Its VERY unlikely for a team to resign a player then just flop him in a trade. Plus that isn't a great way of telling future free agents to sign with the Mets. They would recognized and would be afraid of that happening to them.

And crazy idea and I know lots of people will say no way this happens and all but what about this:

Trade Reyes to the Mariners for Ichiro and some others.

Then trade Beltran to the Yanks for Cano and some.

I realize it leaves a hole at SS but I think they could get someone like O-Cab to come play there or Edgar.

to go further into detial: Reyes for say Ichiro, Putz, and Bedard?

Mets may have to throw something else in, but theres your lead off CF, Closer, and hopefully a rebound project.

TruDru you just don't pick up options and trade the player. Thats straight disrespect to the player. Learn some class.

nrmax--

1. Nice bullpen construction. Giving guys like Parnell, Kunz, and Smith a chance, but not having them as the sole high leverage guys. Cruz is a solid reliever and Ayala should rebound from his meh year this year. Of course, I have to put in my A's homer plug and say "give us Murphy or Evans for Street+prospect"

2. I have to disagree on CC. I understand going all out, and CC is a MUCH better investment than K-Rod. However, having THAT much money tied to two pitchers is a bad idea, especially if one or both of them gets hurt or begins to suck.

3. Out of Wright, Reyes, and Beltran, Wright is indeed the most tradeable. He does get too much of a free pass IMO. It would depend on whether the Mets wanted a hefty package of prospects (ex, Haren deal), or an MLB ready player and maybe a minor addition (ex. Matt Cain). Or, maybe a combination of both.

Beltran has a no trade clause and I'm pretty sure he doesn't want to go to the Mariners.

If the Yankees think they're getting Beltran for Cano (or pretty much anyone else), they're living in a fool's paradise. I've been trying for the last week or two to think of a better CF than him. Haven't thought of one yet.

Besides, an underachieving young prima-dog who got benched down the stretch for dogging it is the LAST thing this team needs.

I said Beltran to the Yankees. Reyes would go to the Mariners.

And I'm not saying all of these players are better than Beltran but they are in the top tier i think: Curtis Granderson, Josh Hamilton, Ichiro (even though he went back to RF he played CF), Grady Sizemore, BJ Upton.

Either way you are trading two of our core players and have not upgraded starting pitching have gotten older left a huge hole a shortstop a lazy second baseman who may or may not rebound and slightly worse at center field.

Whatever. I give up. The Mets team is just so perfect that all they need to do is add another big name FA. This will make them a playoff team just like Johan did........

Barroid,

We've also said the Mets need a gritty peripheral player ala Cliff Floyd/Eric Brynes/Orlando Hudson. CC is just a "goin' for it" move that the Mets can make thanks to all the Citi Field revenue.

I agree that trading the core is not the way to go AT ALL. We can improve tremendously with smaller deals and FA due to the money we are able to spend. CC would be awesome but not necessary. any of the two from Lowe, Perez, and Garland works. And then go after Fuentes. K_Rod is way too expensive for a closer. I can only hope Minaya doesn't jump on that just because of the pressure coming from the lack of bull pen this year. That money can be spent in a much better way.

Juan Rivera would be a good fit for the mets in left field. He has some power and would be a good veteran presence on the team a guy that knows how to win.

Anyone suggesting to trade Wright, Reyes, or Beltran for anything and any reason is incomprehensibly stupid.

None of these guys are expendable. You may fill a couple of holes by trading them, but the hole you create by trading them is even more massive.

With the way the Mets Bullpen has pitched its hard to defend not spending the cash on K-Rod. IDK I mean why the hell not I guess. He's not a great closer. He's good. He's got a ring. He's arguably the second best closer in baseball. I say go get him. I'd like to see this team really go out and revamp this bullpen.

"Chipper on the Mets would make me gag almost as much as "the two-time defending NL East Champion Philadelphia Phillies" does. Byrnes for Castillo would get the Dbacks GM fired, and yet, it might happen anyway."

Yeah, ok. I'm the one who doesn't know what I am talking about.

The Dbacks cannot afford to have Eric Byrnes contract, especially if they try to keep Dunn and have to have Jackson playing LF. They can't afford an 11 million dollar contract. That is a really bad contract for a small market team. The Mets can easily afford to pay him that, and to eat the majority of Luis Castillo's contract. So the Dbacks are getting rid of a bad contract, and getting a stopgap 2B for next to nothing, yet you think it should get Josh Byrnes fired. In case you don't know this, he is one of the better young GM's in the league.

"LOL. Man, do you ever read your posts before you post them? If the Mets had Soria closing games instead of Ayala, they would be six or seven games out? WHAT!?! Explain yourself, buddy."

First of all, he would only be replacing Ayala for a month or so. Wagner was pitching for the most of the season, but that isn't really the point.

If the Mets had Soria closing ball games, but they had traded Beltran to get Soria, and had Endy Chavez playing CF, their closing situation wouldn't be relevant because replacing Beltrans production with Endy Chavez's production probably eliminates the Mets chances of contending anyway.

"None of these guys are expendable. You may fill a couple of holes by trading them, but the hole you create by trading them is even more massive."

I get this all the time. It is what I hear everyday. It is this classic way we think as Met fans. Other fan bases probably have the same problem with their good young players. David Wright is a really good player. He is young, marketable, and talented. But there are other good players. And the feeling I get from our fans is that if David Wright is traded, the other team wins the trade. The Mets cannot possibly come out ahead by trading Wright, and I just don't agree with that. There are other good players in this league, and there are certain players I would trade David Wright for, within reason. There aren't many, but he isn't so good he cannot be discussed in a deal. If you could somehow get Ethier and Billingsly, or Matt Cain +, or Ian Kinsler +, it just shouldn't be out of the question.

lol, anybody that would trade wright over reyes is a complete idiot!! People here are saying CF and SS are harder to replace than 3B?? What third baseman could replace Wright?? Reyes has A+ talent and an F brain! How many times has Reyes come up and pops the ball up and Keith says he needs to stay level. Good luck Keith, your advice would go in one ear and out the other. Wright's only problem is that he puts way too much pressure on himself and he needs someone like Cliff Floyd back! Also Wright isnt the one that showboats all the time and pisses the other teams off. There is also no comparison if you want to compare stats. I will take a guy who drives in 124 anyday with a 390 obp and a .924 ops over an .833 ops and 55 steals. I know Reyes bats leadoff but he couldnt drive in 124 if he batted cleanup anyway. Reyes doesnt have half of the pressure that David has on him. I like Jose and i am not saying to trade any of the core guys but if i had to choose, it would be a very easy decision for me. Jose just doesnt have the baseball mindset either.

Also, i forgot to say that Wright has had consistent numbers every year since he came up, Reyes has not. I know anybody is tradeable in baseball but Wright is worth much more to the Mets than Reyes.(on the field and that the turnstiles)

Haha. I love the attendance thing. Yeah, right. If David Wright retired tomorrow and moved to North Korea, and the Mets moved Daniel Murphy to 3B, signed Manny Ramirez, and won the division next year, you don't think fans are going to show up? They will come to see a winning team, period. And I am not suggesting trading Wright for anything other then another big time talent.

You talk about coming up with a guy on 3rd and popping up? What about David's at bats with men on 3rd with ess then 2 outs? You want to bring up specific at bats? What about David's dreadful at bat against the Cubs with Daniel Murphy on 3rd with nobody out as the winning run, bottom of the ninth? Not only did he eliminate himself, he took the bats out of Beltran and Delgado's hands. That game probably cost us the season. The cubs were trying to give it away, having nothing to play for, and we wouldn't take it. With 5 games left in a season a game like that is a killer.

As for your idea that CF and SS are just as easily replacable positions as 3B, when you are talking about the quality of player of the 3 guys we are discussing, I will just say this. When you have players the calibur of Reyes and Beltran in SS and CF, they are much less replacable then an equally talented player playing 3B, this is common knowledge. If I tell you 2+2=4, and you argue 2+2=5, then there is obviously no point in debating it with you.

And see, wrightreyes' post represents the thinking of most Met fans. Reyes comes up and pops up in a big spot, it is because he is stupid, immature, lazy, and careless. Wright comes up in an identical spot, strikes out on 3 pitches, 2 sliders 18 inches off the plate, and it is for some justifiable reason like he is just putting too much pressure on himself. He just needs Cliff Floyd here to hold his hand. Give me a break.

Nice job comparing the OPS of a leadoff hitter and a cleanup hitter, brilliant. Reyes doesn't have half the pressure Wright has on him? Really? What about the saying... "as Reyes goes, the Mets go"? How about the fact that every single game since 2006, SNY shows a graphic of the Mets success depending on the success of Reyes? Or the fact that they discuss it verbally on the air during every game? That isn't pressure?

-I'm surprised no one thinks the Mets should sign Raul Ibanez. I think he'd be great for the 5-hole and LF. -I'd also like to see the Mets take a chance on Nomar to backup at 3rd and 1st. They could probably get decent value for the two. -Also, there's no way they can trade Castillo and his contract so I'm guessing a platoon at 2nd with Murphy, and Danny eventually getting the larger share. That is of course if Murphy can play the part.
-Keep Delgado, at first and 4.
-Give Ryan Church another chance to play everyday and leave him in RF and to 7.
-Put Beltran in the 2-spot and keep him there.
-Trade Aaron Heilman to Colarado for Seth Smith and Steven Register.
-Utility would be Endy, Murphy, Evans, Smith, and Nomar.
On to pitching...
-Resign Oliver Perez but keep an eye on Derek Lowe.
-The rest of the staff: Pelfrey, Santana, Maine, & Neise.
-I have no idea what to do about the pen other then going after some experince guys like Trever Hoffman, Arthur Rhodes, Brandon Lyon, and/or Juan Cruz.
-The rest of the pitchers: Joe Smith, Bobby Parnell, & Register.

If I was Omar, I would get rid of: Heilman, Schoenewies, Ayala, Feliciano.

I would use Evans, Castillo, and maybe a couple other guys for getting a solid LF or a RP as trade bait, if cant trade castillo just drop him.

I think Duaner should stay, it was his first year back, he wasnt used to throwing 88/89 mph so he got lit up a couple times, he was tied 5th for holds with 21, I also would hold onto smith he has some real potential.

I would love to see Omar sweep up Orlanda Hudson, great defense and good with the bat, to vill the void at 2b.
I know murphy was great this year i would let him be the starting backup/utility player.

Another pick up would be a LF, maybe Eric Byrnes(Via trade) or maybe Manny depending on how much, I dont think he would break up the core.. i think Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Manny, Delgado would be an eletric top 5 batting order, but who knows.

As for the pitching, we need alot of help, i say dont go after the big guns like burnett, sheets, sabathia, lackey if angels dont pick up his club option, i say go for an alright starter like Lowe, and for closing i say get Fuentes K-rod is to expensive, for reliever's i liked solomon torres stuff this year and for a lefty matchup Damaso Marte.

Who knows if this all was gonna happen most likely none is going to but if i was the Mets GM thats what i would do.

If I was Omar, I would get rid of: Heilman, Schoenewies, Ayala, Feliciano.

I would use Evans, Castillo, and maybe a couple other guys for getting a solid LF or a RP as trade bait, if cant trade castillo just drop him.

I think Duaner should stay, it was his first year back, he wasnt used to throwing 88/89 mph so he got lit up a couple times, he was tied 5th for holds with 21, I also would hold onto smith he has some real potential.

I would love to see Omar sweep up Orlanda Hudson, great defense and good with the bat, to vill the void at 2b.
I know murphy was great this year i would let him be the starting backup/utility player.

Another pick up would be a LF, maybe Eric Byrnes(Via trade) or maybe Manny depending on how much, I dont think he would break up the core.. i think Reyes, Beltran, Wright, Manny, Delgado would be an eletric top 5 batting order, but who knows.

As for the pitching, we need alot of help, i say dont go after the big guns like burnett, sheets, sabathia, lackey if angels dont pick up his club option, i say go for an alright starter like Lowe, and for closing i say get Fuentes K-rod is to expensive, for reliever's i liked solomon torres stuff this year and for a lefty matchup Damaso Marte.

Who knows if this all was gonna happen most likely none is going to but if i was the Mets GM thats what i would do.

Trading any part to the left side of this infield is nonsense... Mets need to concentrate on the Bullpen, left field and second base! DRex(Dan Murphy) will be a pivotol part to this whole off-season with how well he does in Arizona at 2nd base... If hes our starting 2nd basemen next yr, Mets should take deep thought into Eric Byrnes for Castillo or signing the fiery Milton Bradley who may be just the type of player they need to win in Septmember.

However, if the O-Dog is available and we have to live with Murphy in lf for one more year then thats a move i would look deeply into.

And Can Lenny Harris leave Washington and come back to pinch hit for us??? He might still be better than any other bats off our bench....)

nrmax88, you are the guy that was outwardly vocal about not acquiring Santana for prospects. How is that working for you now??? exactly!! trading Wright would be much worse than the Kazmir debacle. As far as this stupid saying," As Jose goes, so go the Mets", well the Mets havent done too well, so Jose hasnt been going then!! right??? Reyes is much more replaceable than a player like Wright and it will cost you a lot more to sign or trade for another player like Wright. Thats a fact

Oh, and anyone anointing Murphy a starter in '09 at 2nd this early in his career, give your head a shake! I love Murphy but, once his bubble burst after the first 2 weeks, he looked exactly like what he really is, a Rookie. I guess we will see after he finishes the Arizona Fall League how his defense is coming along.

Although a rookie, you have to admit each at-bat minus his famous bunt attempts vs the Cubbies the kid went up there with a solid approach. An approach that I havent seen from a rookie player in a while. The kid has a solid swing, a real understanding of the strike zone and nothing but potential...and not all may agree but I think the Mets want him out there as an everyday player next year.

Just think if David Wright can put a ball in the outfield after his triple, we would be discussing who makes the playoff roster right now and not nex years team..

like i said above, i love Murphy and everything you say is true but, you will definitely need to keep Easley around especially if we get rid of Castillo. Also, if David wouldve drove in Murphy in the Cubs game, wouldnt that mean we were tied with the Brewers???

nrmax, i love ya. you know your stuff here and on metsblog but i've got to disagree with you wholeheartedly. i'm not the biggest david wright fan but you can not, CAN NOT, trade from the core of the team. they build around them. yes, wright had a bad september but let's remember who we had playing the auxiliary spots during crunch time as well. daniel murphy, ramon martinez, a dejected ryan church with no bench to speak of.

the big hits weren't there yes but there is something to be said for patience and building upon what you have. to be honest, i'd be so bold as to sign manny ramirez to a two year deal at 15 mil per as a stopgap for f-mart. sign k-rod and see if rafal betancourt was available from the tribe.

at that point, let's work in eddie kunz, brian stokes, ricardo rincon, whoever doesn't make it in the fifth spot between parnell and neise, sanchez, smiths, feliciano and let's go to work.

Why do we want to trade our core players? They are signed long term and their contracts are cheap enough that you wouldn't get the same value from other players. Those types of contracts allow us to have more money to spend on other players. I agree that Jose needs to tone it down a little and start acting more professional. I still think Ricky Henderson is still living in his head.
I like the idea of getting Byrnes.
We all agree that we need pitching and bullpen help with through FA's, a trade, or both. But either way, we need some offensive veterans who are gritty and hard nosed. Bradley is a tough guy who would work out nicely in LF if we don't do Byrnes. And if Byrnes is still recovering we still have Murphy to fill in. We can't keep Castillo no matter what. He is poison on this team. Either pick up O-Dog or trade for a 2nd baseman like Brian Roberts. There was a lot of trade talk about him last year. Why not pursue it. Lastly, what about Adam Dunn at 1st?
In regards to pitching, sign and trade Delgado and package him with Heilman and Evans for a good middle of the order starter or a good reliever. Would the Giants trade Cain for that package? Don't know, but it's worth a call.

Giants are not trading Cain for anyone over the age of 26.

Another option which I didn't think of was contacting the Pirates about Ryan Doumit. He can play 1st and platoon at Catcher with Schnieder. He is arbitration eligible this year and the Pirates might be willing to trade him for some young players.

Evans and Heilman packed up can def get us some middle relief, but a 3-5 starter i feel would have to come with more. I didn't include Delgado b/c ccording to John Heyman the Mets will be picking up his option for next yr...not a crazy credible souce but i'll run with it for now...

Sad part about all this is I can see Aaron Heilman moving to a team like Colorado and being a totally different player. The guy has no ba**s, he could only perform in NY when the game was out of line,and playing somewhere with less pressure can bring out the stuff that we all have been waiting to see on a consistant bassis for a cple of yrs now

And back to the starters, how nice would it be to see the Mets steal a Aj Burnett or CC right underneath Cashman again?

I like that Doumit idea a lot!

what happens with Castro tho?

"what happens with Castro tho?"
You either keep him as a backup or package him in a trade.
I would like to get CC but don't need to spend a fortune on him. And even if the Mets pick up Delgados option, they could still package him for the right deal. I wouldn't be surprised if they did trade him. He's not the kind of leader the Mets need. Hell, he didn't like how Willie handled him and he tanked it. Is that a leader?

pirates are not moving Doumit. he doesnt make any money and is productive. If there is anyone on the pirates that we shoudl go after it is ian snell. We could have him for Ryan church. According to Fat Francessa Ryan Church hates the NYC. But I would rather move church to oakland for huston street

In terms of a catcher. We should be targeting one of the Tex rangers catchers. Laird, Max Ramirez, Taylor Teagarden and Salty. Other than Laird we could store those guys in aaa for 50% of the season and bring them along slowly for the 2010 season. I believe Heilman/pagan could get us teagarden or laird

I would explore Texas and see if it could happen, but the Pirates are going to arbitration with Doumit. Not saying they would do it, but it's definately worth making the call.