Minaya To Receive Extension

Mistake. This guy has the highest payroll in the National League and probably the 4th best team after the Cubs, Brewers, and Phillies. Even if it wasn't for the Mets, we can still hold against him that he made one of the worst trades of all time (Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Brandon Phillips for Colon).

"This guy has the highest payroll in the National League and probably the 4th best team after the Cubs, Brewers, and Phillies."

Worse than the Brewers? Then explain to me why they are ahead of them in the WC.

BTW, Tigers and Yankees have a higher payroll and are eliminated from the playoffs.

"Even if it wasn't for the Mets, we can still hold against him that he made one of the worst trades of all time (Cliff Lee, Grady Sizemore, and Brandon Phillips for Colon)."

The Expos were a franchise with no future then. Minaya knew it, everyone did. The prospects were meaningless because of it. He got Colon to try to push the Expos to the playoffs and try to save the franchise.

He has been overall good at trades with the exception of the Lindstrom trade and the Conine trade.
Good signings extensions Wright Reyes for cheap. Great job on the Beltran contract.
Luis Castillo El Duque Schoeneweis were all bad signings.
He also doesn't spend big money on the draft to go above slot money.

Hes a terrible GM. This means Manuel will get the blame for 2 chokes seasons. Minaya deserves the blame for his almost racist singnings and trades. They have no farm and quite a few washed up vets. Not to mention he favors Dominican/Carribean players...that Castillo signing was a disaster.

The Mets had an 88 win season last year and so far have 87 wins this year and the guy gets labeled a disappointment.

People have harsh standards.

"People have harsh standards."

Geez...Im a Cubs fan and would be disappointed if I was a Mets fan. ;) High payroll, big trades, high expectations. I though NYers were demanding....

Why make a 4 year commitment? Omar has been perfectly average. With his resources and payroll it is reasonable to expect a perennial contender. While he hasn't failed miserably I wouldn't label his time a success.

Why not extend him for a year and see what 09 brings. I'm willing to bet that the Mets will be eating some part of this contract before it's through.

"I have Latin blood. Im not being racist, just pointing out a fact."

No, you are being racist. Doesn't matter what race you are.

Schoewenweis, Smith, Kunz, Parnell, Havens, Davis, Holt, Maine, Schneider, Church, Easley, Anderson, Pelfrey, Bradford, Oliver, Lo Duca, Conine, Nady, Williams, Green, Tucker, DiFelice, Newhan, Johnson.

Yeah, he's acquired more latinos than non-latinos but the majority of baseball players are latino. Using this against him is stupid and racist.

"He has been overall good at trades with the exception of the Lindstrom trade and the Conine trade."

Lindstrom was a hothead, took time off for religious reasons, and wasn't very good. Omar got back two younger starters. Also, Lindstrom hasn't been good this year.

Conine trade? You serious? That wasn't a bad move to get Conine. He didn't do anything but the guys he gave up were likely going to be Quad-A players at best.

""I have Latin blood. Im not being racist, just pointing out a fact."

No, you are being racist. Doesn't matter what race you are.

Schoewenweis, Smith, Kunz, Parnell, Havens, Davis, Holt, Maine, Schneider, Church, Easley, Anderson, Pelfrey, Bradford, Oliver, Lo Duca, Conine, Nady, Williams, Green, Tucker, DiFelice, Newhan, Johnson."

My list below includes all players on the Mets 40 man roster in 08. Your list includes previous players from pprevious years. He favors Latin players.
Point being: Of coarse he signs players of a background outside of latin, he wouldnt be a GM if he didnt employ payers of a different culture. But if he had to pick between Luis Castillo and Mark DeRosa, hed pick Castillo...and over pay for him.

"Castillo,Delgado,Reyes,Santana,Beltran,El Duque,Ayala,Feliciano,Muniz,Sanchez,Armas,Pedro,Castro,Matinez,Alou,Chavez,Tatis...and so on."

"But if he had to pick between Luis Castillo and Mark DeRosa, hed pick Castillo...and over pay for him."

How do you know? The fact is, he was not choosing between Luis Castillo and Mark DeRosa, he was choosing between Luis Castillo, Kaz Matsui, and David Eckstein. David Eckstein was demanding more money then Minaya felt comfortable paying him, and Eckstein made it clear he did not want to play 2B, Kaz Matsui.... been there, done that. So he brought back Luis Castillo. Did he give him too many years? Absolutely. But if that is the worst thing you have too say about him, then he has done a pretty decent job.

Ok, to put this little argument over the racial tendencies of Minaya, I took it upon myself to look at the ENTIRE list of players who have played on the Mets this year. Here is that list (with country of birth):

Brian Schneider (USA)
Carlos Delgado (P.R.)
Luis Castillo (D.R.)
David Wright (USA)
Jose Reyes (D.R.)
Fernando Tatis (D.R.)
Carlos Beltran (P.R.)
Ryan Church (USA)
Damion Easley (USA)
Endy Chavez (Ven.)
Marlon Anderson (USA)
Ramon Castro (P.R.)
Daniel Murphy (USA)
Argenis Reyes (D.R.)
Nick Evans (USA)
Angel Pagan (P.R.)
Raul Casanova (P.R.)
Moises Alou (USA)
Robinson Cancel (P.R.)
Trot Nixon (USA)
Chris Aguila (USA)
Brady Clark (USA)
Gustavo Molina (Ven.)
Andy Phillips (USA)
Abraham Nunez (D.R.)
Ramon Martinez (USA)
Johan Santana (Ven.)
Mike Pelfrey (USA)
Oliver Perez (USA)
John Maine (USA)
Pedro Martinez (D.R.)
Nelson Figueroa (USA)
Claudio Vargas (D.R.)
Jonathon Niese (USA)
Tony Armas (Ven.)
Brandon Knight (USA)
Brian Stokes (USA)
Aaron Heilman (USA)
Scott Schoeneweis (USA)
Joe Smith (USA)
Jorge Sosa (D.R.)
Duaner Sanchez (D.R.)
Billy Wagner (USA)
Pedro Feliciano (P.R.)
Carlos Muniz (USA)
Luis Ayala (Mex)
Matt Wise (USA)
Bobby Parnell (USA)
Ricardo Rincon (Mex)
Eddie Kunz (USA)

So, now that this list of ALL players who have been on the roster is made, counting up the countries of origin is simple: USA: 27, P.R.: 7, D.R.: 9, Ven.: 4, Mex.: 2.

That should put the belief that Minaya is racist to rest. He has used 27 players born in the USA and 22 players born outside the US this year. Can't lie with the numbers!

Minaya sucks! He is a horrible GM, who gets hispanic guys who can't even speak english, Lo Duca was right, thank god I'm a Yankee fan.

"He has been overall good at trades with the exception of the Lindstrom trade and the Conine trade."

Heath Bell for Ben Johnson looks pretty bad right now, especially considering the Mets pen problems.

Getting Perez at low value was a good move, but it looks like they ended up giving up a very good player in Nady

I'd say his best trade was the Santana trade...but much like the Beltran signing, his team's payroll but him in an exclusive club of 3-4 teams that were even eligible for either of those moves. So it's not like they were genius masterstrokes. He used that huge checkbook effectively

Supermets.

Minaya is in the top ten GMs... great that means he is in the 66h percentile. Congratulations you get a D-!

What is the difference between top ten and top fifteen, top twenty...

clearly it doesnt require any foresight in constructing a bullpen.

"clearly it doesnt require any foresight in constructing a bullpen."

Was it Minaya's fault that Aaron Heilman went from a 3.04 ERA to a 5.26 ERA?

Was it Minaya's fault that Pedro Feliciano went from a 3.09 ERA to a 4.08 ERA?

Was it Minaya's fault that Jorge Sosa went from a 4.47 ERA to a 7.06 ERA?

Was it Minaya's fault that Matt Wise pitched all of 8 games this season?

Perhaps you can fault him for relying a little too much on Duaner Sanchez coming off of injury. But for the most part he was relying on people who have been good pitchers in this league, at least up until this season.

This is why most sensible people realize that bullpen construction is at best a bunch of guesswork, one year's good bullpen is another year's liability.

Since when does saying that you believe Omar prefers Latin players make you a racist? That just makes you sound dumb...

Thats like saying if someone thinks someone is a pervert, it automatically makes them a pervert. Think before you type.

"Actually i think you can blame minaya for all of that. I thought the most important aspect of a bullpen is to have swing a miss type guys or guys with good whips."

Okay, lets take your measures for a second.

The Mets are 15th in MLB in Bullpen WHIP and 16th in MLB in Bullpen K/9. So by your measures the Mets should have at least an average bullpen, right?

But they don't.

"Jorge Sosa? less than 2 K per Walk (1.4K/BB) over his career and a 1.4 WHIP?"

We're talking about a 6th or 7th bullpen guy with Sosa, so expectations aren't exactly THAT high, but we're talking about someone with roughly a 4.5 Career ERA entering this season. Him completely falling off a cliff has to be at least an unexpected development.

"Heilman... i dunno but if anybody ever benefitted more from being touted in NYC i can't think of whom. He has always been a nice piece and enver all that relieable. "

I would think he's highly touted because he had a 3.17, 3.63, and 3.04 ERA in 3 consecutive seasons. That's pretty reliable, no? Again, him completely falling off a cliff has to be at least an unexpected development.

"Also wasn't Wise released?"

Season-ending injury, got injured in his 2nd game, made an ill-fated comeback attempt and was quickly shut down.

"and consider Heilman - who never had a single great pitch - "

What do you consider a 95 mph Fastball and a change-up that by all accounts was a plus pitch?

As touched on, Minaya's best areas seem to be trades and his ability to find the diamonds in the rough.

I already touched on his trade history, and plucking players like John Maine, Oliver Perez, ect out of trades....so I won't repeat myself there.

But he's made some excellent finds like Fernando Tatis (2008), Jorge Sosa (2007), Jose Valentin, Chad Bradford, Darren Oliver (2006) that have played a large role in the team's success. These are guys that signed for less then 2 million dollars that any team could have taken on.

He's not your typical large-market GM in that aspect, it's not all throwing around the checkbook to make the team successful.

In fact, as TruDru22 mentioned, It's when Omar gets a little too spend-happy on older players that the Mets get into trouble with, Castillo, Schoeneweis, Alou, El Duque, Pedro, and Wagner are evidence as such. Either gave them too many years, or too much money, or both.

Pedro Martinez is the single biggest reason for the Mets turn around following the embarrasment that was 2002-2004. Even if he only pitched one year and never touched a baseball again, he was worth it. Much like Pudge to Detroit, Pedro completely changed the dynamic of the team, and how other players thought about the Mets. Without Pedro there is no Beltran, and so on. It set off a chain reaction. We see GM's like Dayton Moore and Dave Dombrowski get credit for bringing in Meche and Pudge to turn their franchises around, yet when it is Pedro, Omar is criticized for it. Pedro is a much bigger name then Pudge or Meche and when your team is that awful, and you want to bring in a star like Pedro, that could (and did) turn this franchise into a winner, sometimes you over pay.

The '07 collapse was a historical flop. The '08 season is days away from a possible collapse. The number of regular season wins should not come into play in when you look at it from that view. 60 wins or 100 wins with no post season means you go home early. I just do not understand the timing of this extension.

TruDu:

Yes the Yanks spend money on FA bcuz we can and if we don't have it in houe then you do what you need to do, the same way the Bosox, Chisox, Angels, Dodgers and Mets do. However, please give Cash credit due for players like Wang, Cano, Soriano and Melky who came thru the system and for making trades for players like Abreu and Nady where we gave up very little to get key productive players. It's not all about bad deals like Pavano, Wright, etc. Sometimes a GM has to go w/ a player who he thinks he can use. if the player gets hurt ou can't really blame him. That's why players get physicals. If Santana broke down this year or God forbid Sabathia was signed and ends up on the DL then who's to blame?

My point is that going into the last week of a season what could Minaya have done differently the last two years to have different results? By September the team is what it is and it's up to the players WHO WERE ALAREADY IN 1ST Place to deliver. I don't even think you can really blame the manager really. You mean to tell me the managers were Geniuses all year and then forgot how to manage in the last week of the season?

If anything the players lacked heart. I'm a Yanks fan and even I can say that about both NY teams. They have good talent but at some point you have to go above and beyond and win. Losing to teams that are below .500 in September is not excusable.