Holliday Derby Begins

Who thinks the sox will get one or more of these guys?
Sabathia, Peavy, Texiera, burnett, holliday, or lowe

The Mets should jump on Holliday.

Holliday: Yes I could see it happen. Somehow.

Phils will go for Manny, not Holliday. 4 years 80 million for Manny. Holliday's going to command more time and we don't need that. We have Michael Taylor in about 2-3 years. Also Holliday's going to cost us a package of at least Donald, Marson, Happ. Manny's free to the highest bidder. Trade Myers, let burrell (27 million saved) go and sign Manny and trade those above three for Peavy. That'll put us back in the WS next year. GO PHILS!

Lineup would be:
1-Rollins
2-Victorino
3-Utley
4-Howard
5-Ramirez
6-Werth
7-Feliz
8-Ruiz

Starting staff would be: Hamels, Peavy, Carrasco, Blanton and (fill in scrub 5th starter here)

Tim, I'm completely with you on this one. Holliday just doesn't make sense for the Red Sox. For that matter, neither does Atkins.

Teixeira won't happen because there's nowhere to play him. Youk, Ortiz, and Lowell won't be traded.

The Mets got to jump on Holliday if he is indeed available. He really is the bat the Mets are missing in the middle of that lineup. A pure hitter who hits for average and Power. Delgado had a great year but he is 38 and its hard to expect that kind of production from him again.

The biggest reason they need Holliday though is the simple fact that they have lacked another right handed power bat in their lineup since they traded Nady.

Red Sox- Makes no sense Bay, Ellsbury and Drew are going to be starters in the OF.
Phillies- Perfect fit. Burrell is leaving Holliday could step in. A line up of Rollins, Victorino, Utley, Howard, and Holliday.
Angels- Mmm Rivera is gone probably
Mets- Good fit. Holliday, Beltran, Church. Sounds like a good OF.
Royals- He would be good fit here.
Nationals- He would be a good fit here. They have no chance in getting im though.

I say the Phillies get him.

"The Mets got to jump on Holliday if he is indeed available. He really is the bat the Mets are missing in the middle of that lineup. A pure hitter who hits for average and Power."

But what are the Mets really missing in the middle of their lineup? They already have one of the top best pure hitters in baseball in Wright, another one of them in Beltran, and a good power hitter in Delgado.

The Mets would simply be better off trying to build around those guys with good role players, rather than leave other holes in the lineup, or a massive hole in the farm system, to add Holliday. Delgado will be a free agent next season which should free up some cash, and at that time Holliday and Bay will be up for free agency, and although its likely both won't hit free agency, if they do the Mets will be near the front of the line.

Count the Reds in on wanting, and most likely will pursue Holliday. Walt NEEDS a right handed Clutch hitter, and IF an extension could be worked out, im sure the rockies would be interested in the following prospects--

SP Bailey
SP Malony
SP Thompson
SP Owings
RP Roeneke
OF Stubbs
OF Dorn
IF Duran
IF Fraizer
IF Warring
IF Valkia

These are some expendable high-cieling type players. Im sure a trade COULD be worked out. The Reds have the money, sicne their team is young, that they could sign Holliday to a 5-6 year deal and not be locked in.

Holliday, Bruce, and Votto would be a very good core to a young team.

Scriblletone

The Mets are built to win now though. They havent gotten any production out of LF on a consistant basis since 2005. It's time to fix that. Holliday is young and nobody knows if any of these prospects are a sure thing.

I see people throw around prospects name like there a sure fire thing and there just going to step in and be great. Holliday is young and will be a core player for a long time if we could add him.

I'd give up Niese, Martinez or Flores, and another player for him. Holliday, Beltran, and Church is a good outfield which is fairly young and will be around for a long time and a lineup of Reyes, Castillo, Wright, Holliday, Beltran, Delgado would be deadly (assuming the Mets dont get rid of Castillo).

If people really do believe in Murphy (I do) then he could be our first baseman after the 09 season when Delgado becomes a Free Agent. Or possibly second if the Mets move Castillo before next season.

I understand a little about the speculation of Holliday to the Red Sox, he would play up in Fenway though not to the extent of Coors. However, why would we consider Atkins. Terrible defense at 3rd, TERRIBLE home/road splits, not very good against righties, his lefty mashing helps his overall numbers significantly. In, fact, should anyone give up anything of significance for him?

^^^ That being said, if you look at the Mark Teixeira trade, the Angels actually didn't give up anything that seriously impacted their system. Kotchman at that point was a reclamation project that turned out well and they were just cashing out. Kotchman had relatively little value entering this past season perhaps along the lines of Dallas McPherson?().

M. Holliday could be a good fit for the yanks 09

trade

1. H. Sanchez
2. R. Cano
3. M. Cabrera

T. Tulowitzki and R. Cano would be a pretty solid middle

z

I am for trading for Holliday personally. I'm against trading Cahill and Anderson, and istead support a package centered Simmons or Mazzaro. I see Simmons or Mazzaro as semi-expendable as I see the rotation featuring Cahill, Anderson, Simmons or Mazzaro (whichever isn't traded), Outman, and Gio Gonzalez for years to come.

Nationals make ton of sense to grab holliday. They need a big bat and a left fielder. Holliday is obviously perfect for that.

They also have tons to give for him, prospect wise. Especially pitching. Rockies would love pitching since they were looking for some during the summer before trade deadline.

I definitely wouldnt count them out.

Mets have basically no farm left. I can't see them "out-prospecting" any of the other interested teams

I really hope Frank Wren at least kicks the tires on this for the Braves. I wouldnt mind getting him only if we could sign him to an extension. But then again we could just use him as a stop gap until Heyward/Sumoza/Gorkys arrives possibly in 2010

The best fits are teams with decent farm systems, teams that will probably be contending next year and teams who might not be willing to take on a long term commitment at LF. I could see the Rays taking on Holliday, if one of Crawford/Holliday could play RF (if Baldelli is resigned, he can DH). I don't know how much they will be raising payroll by though, and that will be the major factor in a Holliday acquisition.

Holliday makes zero sense for the BoSox.

Phillies could work, but they would have to give up Carrasco and others. Since he's the only "top" pitching prospect in the system, I'd hesitate to give him up. I think the FA market might be a better fit for the Phillies though, since they don't really have the young high-upside pitching surplus Rockies will draw from (Kendrick and Happ don't count).

Reds could be an interesting darkhorse.

Holliday to the Angels would make sense as well, since they need power and are the favorites to win the AL West in '09.

Braves would also be a good suitor if they don't trade for Peavy. Peavy trade takes them out though.

I don't see the Mets as a good fit for Holliday. Yes, I think that it would be nice for them to have an impact player in LF. The Mets' farm system is weak. Holliday deal would probably be something along the lines of Niese + F-Mart + Carp + top prospects from lower minors. The Mets have the cash to go out and sign a FA LF.

"I am for trading for Holliday personally. I'm against trading Cahill and Anderson, and istead support a package centered Simmons or Mazzaro. I see Simmons or Mazzaro as semi-expendable as I see the rotation featuring Cahill, Anderson, Simmons or Mazzaro (whichever isn't traded), Outman, and Gio Gonzalez for years to come."

I don't want to rely on a set 5 arms panning out, because that's the nature of prospects. We all remember Dan Meyer, right? Anderson and Cahill shouldn't go anywhere. The A's have enough high-upside arms that they can get around dealing Anderson/Cahill.

Whether the A's contend in 2009 will depend heavily on the young starters. Bullpen will be a strength, regardless of whether Street goes or stays. There can be some hit-or-miss tendencies with young pitching, as we all know.

I am all for trading young pitching to improve offense. I just think that either mid-season 2009 or before 2010 is the year to be trading young pitching for 1-year rentals. The focus this offseason should be on guys who will be with the team for a while.

How many Boras clients do the A's have on their payroll? Zero. The last Boras client the A's had left after 2006. I don't see the A's and Boras negotiating out an extension, especially since nobody on the roster, even Eric Chavez, has a no-trade clause.

Figures... a Matt Holliday post linking the Mets as possible destination, and every Met fan starts with the whole " We have to go get him!' crap. Trading for Holliday would be as stupid a thing as you could do, because there are a lot of comparable (and one much better) left fielders on the free agent market. The thought of trading Fernando Martinez or Wilmer Flores, let alone Pena and Holt for Holliday makes me want to vomit.

Home/Road splits are always brought up when it comes to Colorado players but know one ever brings it up from the other side: The Rockies play a lot of their road games in San Diego, San Francisco and Dodger Stadium. Those parks are all clearly pitchers parks. Not to mention that Coors is no longer what it once was, when comes to being a hitters park. IDK just my opinion

I would not be surprised if Holliday stayed a Rockie for one more year. And, if the Rockies add a frontline starter and the Dodgers lose Manny, things could get interesting in that NL West. Although, I think some GM will offer enough can't miss young pitching talent to get the job done.

Big difference between Holliday and Fuentes trade situations though. The Rauch trade HEAVILY killed the value of deadline deal relievers. If you're following the Rauch precedent (Rauch was decent before he was traded to the DBacks, and he was signed for multiple years), no way the Rox would have gotten a better value for Fuentes than the two draft picks that they'd get by holding on to him.

5yr/100MM, which is the offer I have heard that the Rox offered, is a fair market value offer. Holliday can probably get more, but if he wants to stay with the Rox, he takes the offer and lives with it.

Kramerica,

Hell of a point. you do need to consider that, I mean that is usually a third of the pads away games out of the year, so you are exactly right. Very good point

scribbletone- Agreed on all counts.

Young pitching is THE most valuable commodity in MLB. Even BOR starters are bloody valuable (again, look at Silva, Washburn, Garland, etc.).

Garret Atkins for Adam Lind, Brian Tallet, and Davis Romero.

I'm going to get a ton of comments that I'm overvaluing Jays prospects and undervaluing Garret Atkins, but I really don't think I am. His numbers are extremely Coors inflated, and his defense leaves something to be desired. He's not much of a bargain at the 7m it's gonna take to sign him.

Bloody sock, I think the feeling is for Boston that since they are a big market team, they might as well just go after a top tier FA starter. A Jon Garland guy seems like what you want, a solid 4 or 5 guy, but the only problem is these guys are going to cost you atleast 10 mil anyway. That is the market for a mid-back of the rotation starter these days. Might as well spend the extra 5-7 mil for Burnett/Lowe, or even try to get a Ollie Perez type of guy for 13 or 14 million. I think he could fit in nicely in their rotation as a second lefty behind Lester, as he is still young and still has a lot of potential if he can ever figure it all out. He is only 27 years old. Plus, he is known for coming up big in big games, and the dude kills the Yankees. Beckett/Lester/Dice-K/Ollie/Bowden/Masterson or whoever would have a nice flow, with a lot of power arms and a nice L/R/L/R rotation. Just an interesting thought, because I have never anything about Ollie to Boston, but I think it could be a good fit. The wildcard would be the Green Monster, but I think Oliver could thrive out there.

"But I just dont see how adding Holliday hurts them. Like I said prospects are porspects and people have already started to cool off on Martinez anyway. If anything Holliday takes some pressure off of the core of this lineup and team."

It hurts their future, and the benefits simply don't outweigh the long term effects.

You say that adding Holliday would take pressure off of the big four, but I just don't quite think thats right.

I think what would take pressure off them would be if the lineup was solid 1-8, and on any given day any guy in the lineup could carry the offense. Having 6 good guys and 2 bad guys still puts the pressure on 6 guys to create the offense of 8.

"Lets say they trade Martinez and Neise for him. They still have Flores, Parnell, Kunz, Murphy, Pena as far as prospects go and guys like Havens, Holt, and Davis who were recent first round picks. Unless the Mets think Neise is going to be a big time pitcher I would make a trade like that. If it costs more then ok we will have to see but my point is that for a package like that I would make that trade."

Now lets say the Rockies accept an offer of Martinez, Niese and Kunz. I would probably sit hard and think about it, but really I think that the Mets simply HAVE to look at other options before paying a premium for a rental.

I just think that the difference between an outfield of Holliday, Beltran and Church, and Ibanez, Beltran and Church, isn't nearly as much as everyone seems to think it is.

"I seriously doubt Niese and Martinez gets it done. Why not just sign Burrell? Manny? Dunn? You want to trade for a guy who is going to walk in a year. Unless they give him like 6/150, which would get Omar fired."

I really don't like the Mets but you are exactly right. What is the point of the Mets trading for anyone of that caliber? If you trade for Holliday you have no farm left then next year what happens when he walks? What if Delgado retires? You just sign people and trade for other big names? Doing this just turns you into the Yankees.

"But I just dont see how adding Holliday hurts them. Like I said prospects are porspects and people have already started to cool off on Martinez anyway. If anything Holliday takes some pressure off of the core of this lineup and team."

This is the NY fan mentality. Get everyone, buy high, do everything now now now, eff the future.

This is the mentality that will have the Mets in the cellar in no time.
Prospects are huge for the long-term health of a team. You just shouldn't trade prospects for rentals unless there is an absolute need that cannot be filled through another avenue for one reason or another.

My guy for LF for the Mets is Juan Rivera. Thats the guy I would add looking at the Free Agent market.

I agree a whole complete lineup is better but I dont see why they cant do that while adding Holliday as well.

Ibanez makes no sense. They dont need another Left handed bat in their lineup. They need another right handed bat. Burrell and Dunn both strike out to much and Burrell especially doesnt hit rnough to warrant that many K's.

Holliday while he might strike out also hits well above .300 and drives in 100 runs as well.

I dont see why you cant add role players while adding Holliday as well. Delgado is old. Expecting that type of production from him again is a stretch in my opinion. By adding Holliday to the core you are setting yourself up nicely for when Delgado leaves.

If a package of Niese and Martinez wouldnt get the deal done then like I said i'd have to reconsider it. But I dont see any negatives in adding Matt Holliday to this team. It adds depth to this lineup plus somebody who is going to put up good offensive numbers (most people seem to think that hitting outside of Coors field wont bother him). Like I said you can add role players at other posistions while adding Holliday in LF.

It's so funny. I was reading thru some of the trade scenarios and said "Wow, no crazy Yankke trade proposals" and then I came across the one where the Yanks would offer Humberto Sanchez, Robbie Cano and Melky Cabrera. I'm a HUGE Yanks fan and I hope Cano is given a nother chance to turn things around, but even I know that the Rocks would want more than a prospect coming off of a major arm related surgery, a 2B who just came off a dissapointing season and a guy like Melky who was demoted by his own team due to poor offense.

I truly dont think the Yanks are thinking of Holliday because we have such a glut in the OF already, but any conversation about Holliday probably starts with at least HUghes, Jackson and others.

I feel bored. How about this deal with the White Sox?

Holliday, Atkins and Barnes

for

Nick Swisher (3 yrs/21 mil left on contract).

Javier Vazquez (2 yrs/21 mil).

Aaron Poreda (AA/22yr/SP)

John Ely (A/22yr/SP)

Carlos Torres (AA/26yr/SP)

Lance Broadway (AAA/25 yr/SP)

Rockies Pickup: Swisher (helps replace some of the lost offense), Vazquez (a good starting pitcher that needs a change of scenerey) and few good prospects (3 SP ranked top 10 in Sox organization.

Whitesox Pickup: A starting OF, 3B and 2B which allows them to move Ramirez to SS.

Instead of rebuilding the Rocks get mlb quality players in Swish and Vaz and could possibly go after a mid-level bat thru FA. Rocks only pick up about 5 mil in extra salary.

Whitesox go after a #3 or #4 SP free agent to replace Vazques who is despised by Guillen anyway.

@ YanksFanSince78
I think that that's too many pitcher, i think a few more position players ala Brian Anderson would be instead of Torres. BTW that's a total video game trade.

By the way...I'm really loving BJ Upton's game. Infield single, steals second and third and scores on a throwing error to tie the game. He can hit 30 hrs and still play small ball. I wish the Yanks could think more along those lines instead of just going for big power guys. WOuld be great if Austin Jackson were to turn into a player like that.

YanksFanSince1978- Holliday for Poreda and Swisher would be adequate.

No way the other pieces you mentioned get the Sox Atkins and Barmes though. You have a salary dump, a 25yo fringe guy in Broadway, another fringe guy in Ely, an AAAA guy in Torres, and a salary dump in Vazquez. No way that gets you even one of Atkins/Barmes.

And, some of the guys you mention as "depth" for the White Sox aren't even with the organization anymore.

"First off, I think bay could handle right field, if nixon could I feel bay is capable. With that said I think the sox should go after holliday, the rox stated "quality pitching" as their need in return....they asked for clay in the past, I think this time around you could and would give clay, pauley, reddik, and bailey and get a deal done. Maybe bowden, the sox have a lot to work with and don't have to give top tier guys and could go with expandable players and keep guys like anderson, masterson, ellsbury, and even bowden."

First of all, Trot Nixon was a good defensive outfielder, Bay is not a good defensive outfielder. He is average at best in left field. Secondly, why would the Red Sox give up a young, cost-controlled pitcher with little service time and ace potential for a left fielder who has 1 year left on his contract and could cost in the $20MM range for 6+ years if they attempted to extend him. Then to trade Drew and eat money??? Drew is a very good defensive right fielder in Fenway, and a very good hitter. The fact is, he is simply miscast as a run-producing middle-of-the-order guy. He should be hitting 2nd or 3rd, getting on base at a tremendous rate and using above-average speed to score runs via Bay, Ortiz and Youkilis, in that order i would argue. I think the lineup should look like this:

1. Ellsbury
2. Pedroia
3. Drew
4. Bay
5. Ortiz
6. Youkilis
7. Lowell
8. Lowrie
9. (whoever plays catcher)

My bad. I forgot Santos was included in the Swisher deal (that deal sucked). When was Charlie Haeger waived and why?

I wouldn't categorize Vasquez as a salary dump though. He's only making 11 mil per year. Last year he gave the Sox 17 quality starts (6+ innings/3 earned runs or less) and pitched 200 innings. He might benefit from picthing in the NL west. He's only 32 and can bounce back. He's still got the ability to miss bats (200 strike outs 2 years in a row). He would easily be the Rocks 2nd or 3rd best starter. I doubt the Rocks would settle for Swisher and 1 pitching prospect for Holliday. Swisher isn't really a salary dump either. He's only 28 and at an avg of 7 mil a year he would be a steal if he can bounce back to his '07 numbers. After all he had what my best friend "nrmax88" loves.....a high OBP of .381 in '07.

But anyway...just wanted to throw the scenario out there.

As a Mets fan, i would undoubtedly love to have Holliday on the team, but their is only one way I would even consider trading for him...and that would be like the sign/trade that we did with Santana last year. No rental players, if we can sign him long term then sure, why not.

I never said Swish was a salary dump. He's actually a very solid player. Swish + Poreda + Egbert should get Holliday alone.

Vasquez is Jon Garland on a 2 year contract. He is a salary dump. No way the Rox accept him for Atkins/Barmes.

And, don't write off the Swisher for Gio/DLS/Sweeney deal as bad for either side just yet. DLS is having TJ surgery. Gio's really struggling at the big league level (although I'm confident he develops to at least the level of a 4), and Sweeney is not putting up respectable numbers for a corner outfielder (although he has improved since 2007).

"And, don't write off the Swisher for Gio/DLS/Sweeney deal as bad for either side just yet. DLS is having TJ surgery. Gio's really struggling at the big league level (although I'm confident he develops to at least the level of a 4), and Sweeney is not putting up respectable numbers for a corner outfielder (although he has improved since 2007"

I would consider it a steal alrdy. Sweeney himself played better defense and hit for a better average than Swisher. All in all it was a very solid rookie campaign. Gio's a young pitcher; young pitcher's generally struggle when they first arrive in the majors, but it's easy to see that he has some quality stuff. Even if DLS wasn't included in the deal it would be a steal, and he has a chance to be an impact player in the bigs.

Melonis Rex,

I think that saying Javier Vazquez is a complete salary dump with no trade value is just wrong. He got hit pretty hard this year, but still posted a league average 98 ERA+, the same as in 2006. But he also still has the stuff to have a season like he did in 2003 and 2007, when posted ERA+s of 139 and 127. He's struck out 200 batters four times, including the past two seasons. He also doesn't walk a massive amount of batters, his control is pretty good. And on top of that he's been good for 200 innings in 8 of the past 9 seasons. There's no doubt in my mind that he's gotta have some trade value, even if he's prone to having that one bad inning that screws up many of his starts. He's still decently young at 31, and $11.5M isn't exactly a ton of money to pay to a pitcher these days. He wouldn't exactly net the White Sox a haul, but he should be able to land them a good prospect or two.

Javier Vazquez for Luis Castillo, Jon Niese and Ruben Tejeda?

I'll concede that Vazquez is not a salary dump. He shouldn't bring back top prospects though. Trading for him is smarter than signing Garland for 4 years for most teams.

"Javier Vazquez for Luis Castillo, Jon Niese and Ruben Tejeda?"

Bleh deal for the White Sox. If Vazquez is not a salary dump...then why are you making it as such. The window on the White Sox is closing, especially with Konerko, Dye, Thome, growing older and slower. There also isn't an immediate replacement for Vazquez waiting in the wings, so the Sox will have to add salary to sign an FA pitcher, because it really isn't a smart idea for a contending team to rely on Poreda (with zero MLB experience and will probably start the season in AAA) and Richard to provide 40% of starts.

And, Gordon Beckham and Alexei Ramirez will probably be anchoring that middle infield for years to come. No need for them to take on a 3 year commitment in Castillo.

Although, Niese would make it appealing. It would make it a close call, but if I'm KW, I don't do it.

"I would consider it a steal alrdy. Sweeney himself played better defense and hit for a better average than Swisher. All in all it was a very solid rookie campaign. Gio's a young pitcher; young pitcher's generally struggle when they first arrive in the majors, but it's easy to see that he has some quality stuff. Even if DLS wasn't included in the deal it would be a steal, and he has a chance to be an impact player in the bigs."

I have to disagree here.

Swisher had a down year. If he put up 2007 numbers, the deal wouldn't look nearly as much of a steal. The A's NEEDED Swisher's power, and will continue to need such power.

Sweeney's numbers aren't nearly adequate for a corner outfielder. For a middle infielder, yes. He hit for a good average and made progress, yes. Hopefully some of that power develops, or at least he bolsters his OBP. Sweeney's D didn't nearly make up for his offense.

Gio will be the deal breaker. I think he will be similar to Barry Zito 2004-2006 (not as dominant as his CY days). However, he has to develop enough control to be erratically effective, as Barry was. He could very easily not pan out, or be relegated to relief work. It wouldn't be a major hit for the A's due to their pitching depth, but the White Sox would be coming out on top with that deal.

However, if Sweeney develops a hair more power, Gio becomes a competent MLB starter, and DLS is able to recover and become a servicable MLB pitcher (starter or reliever), the deal looks awful nice.

"Tampa makes the most trade sense from the Rockies' standpoint. They could give up some talent from the farm or even move a back end rotation guy like a Edwin Jackson or Andy Sonnastine and the Rockies all of a sudden look a whole lot better."

Tampa is the best *fit* from a player trade matchup and need standpoint. However, I don't know how much payroll is going up by. That will be the biggest impediment to Holliday. The Rays don't have significant money coming off the books and several core players are due raises(about 10MM more I think to keep the current group of players intact). I don't see any of the core guys being traded, so I don't see the Rays trading for him unless payroll goes up by about 23-25MM (Holliday's 13.5MM and then money to cover raises + arbitration cases), and I just don't see that happening.

There is no way the Rays are in on Holliday or KRod. They just don't spend money like that. They found a way to win with young players and inexpensive veterans and I dont think their going to change their approach.

Delgado?

Sorry, the Rox are already stuck with Helton's albatross of a contract until 2011.

Try again, please.

Ok so the nationals are mentioned above. to be perfectly honest, if the nats land holliday, it'll be like how they landed soriano (as a 1-yr rental). That 1-yr rental is not worth loosing someone like Redding or another valuable player. they'd then have to break the bank to keep him. Honestly what the Nats need is to demote Dmitri Young until he gets healthy and have Nick Johnson as a back up for whoever they get at first base.

The rest od this is based off an MLB.com article on the Nats needing a clean-up hitter.

I don't see them getting Fielder without trading ML ready prospects or any of their young middle infielders. They're not gonna get Tex unless they break the bank and outright one of young middle infielders to AAA.

Sadly, i think the best bet for the NAtionals is Adam Dunn, even though he's older ( i think).

Just throwing this out there: what do people think of a Kearns & Belliard/Alex Gonzales for Holliday trade or Belliard/Alex gonzales & Redding for Holliday trade?