Cameron Not Likely For Yankees

How ironic..the Brewers are asking for the 2 players that for weeks we have been hearing are "untradeable" and "no one wants".

No, they aren't "untradeable" nor does "no one want" them. It's just that they aren't top prospects, so no one is interested in them headlining a package for the likes of Peavy, Holliday, etc. But for someone like Mike Cameron, they're a decent return. Relax.

I don't know why the Yanks are so concerned with CF. I'd stick Melky there and just let him play. He's not great, but he's not that bad. Go get some good pitching and CF becomes less of an issue.

Everyone...I know what the return would be. But the quotes I put in my comment were the EXACT things people posted for the last 2 weeks in other threads.
They didn't say 'they were untradeable for a superstar" or "someone may want them for a lesser player". It was said, multiple times that NO ONE would want them for anything and that they were untradeable. THAT was my only point.

For the record, Id rather keep those 2 and do without Cameron.

Here's a post I put on another thread this morning:

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The arguement is not "Is Melky better than Cameron". He's not. Not today maybe not tomorrow. The arguement I'm making is, Cameron isn't THAT much better than Melky that we should even consider trading Melky, Kennedy and paying $10 million to get him. And by all accounts that's what the Brews would require. Think about this. If Cameron is so great and Melky sucks so bad, why would the Brewers, who want to contend again next year, trade him for Melky and Kennedy if they felt it would not make their team better? Keep in mind that it's not a salary dump for the Brewers. They picked up Cameron's option with the express purpose of trading him for something more useful. Take that into consideration. When a team with a great eye for young talent that has drafted and developed so many great young players want your young players/prospecs for their established star what does that tell you? People wake up and smell the coffee. No one has said Melky will be the next Willie Mays, but the kid along with Gardner and Kennedy have talent that may not have been reached as of yet. And I've NEVER, EVER heard any "expert" say the reason why the Yanks failed to win this year was because of a lack of production in CF. Let's not pull a Bush/Cheyney and throw resources at the wrong "situation".

Yanksfan..

I pretty much agree with everything you post.

But with Kennedy, you have to realize it has nothing to do with what he has done or hasn't done, and everything to do with the uniform he wears. People want to see the Yanks young guys fail and when they do, even if its a small sample a big deal is made.
I have not given up on Hughes, Kennedy or Gardner. The sample size is way too small.

"Let me explain what's wrong with Kennedy"

his mentality. hit the nail right on the head. does anyone remember his post game comments? he said himself he doesnt like the spotlight of NY.

(My comment above was referencing JJ. I should have quoted.)

Lies. The Yankees haven't "suddenly" lost interest in Cameron. This story reeks. One advantage of being in a big media market, is there is always some media rube you can use to "get the message out".

The message in this case is: "Look Brewers, contrary to all other reports, we (the Yankees) are not that desparate for a CF, especially a guy named Mike Cameron.

Obviously the Yankees failed to keep their desire for Cameron a secret, now they want to pretend they couldn't care less (to drive price down). Nice try. Nobody is buying this.

I'd make the Cameron for Cabrera/Kennedy deal if I was Milwaukee.

@papelboner

melky's OPS+ was 68. how is that "not that bad"? that's horrible. now, i'm not disagreeing with you entirely. i wouldn't trade kennedy for cameron straight up. cameron sucks. badly. pass.

If melky could learn to bunt a bit better and maybe be more of a base stealing threat, Id be content with him there. It is a little sad though that he would likely be our best defender.

I don't think people want Yankees prospects to 'fail' (maybe some ok but not most). I think what got to most people is all the trade proposals where in which Yankees prospects were somehow considered so much better by Yankee fans, then Braves, Rays, Red Sox ect teams prospects. I don't think Kennedy or Hughes are a "Bust" nor do I think Brett Gardner or Melky are "horrible players" but I do think they are quite overvalued by yankee fans. And yes I understand 'every fan overvalues his prospects' but come on its getting a bit crazy when Yankee fans make comments like "Hughes, Melky, and Kennedy were more valueable then Johan last year so I wouldn't trade them for Peavey" Comments of that ilk are what rile up other teams fans b/c there is no basis of fact supporting them. Ok maybe Cashman didn't pull the trigger on that deal LAST YEAR (and if he had maybe the Yanks would have been in the playoffs) but that was last year for a pitcher who had only one more year to go on his contract. Now this is the 2008-9 offseason and Hughes, Kennedy, and Melky all lost value. Also while Peavey is not Johan he does have value in the fact that he is signed for 5 years at a below market price. Also last year the Yankees didn't have as big a need at SP they had Wang, Mussina, Pettite, with Hughes, Kennedy and Joba to fill out the rotation. Now they have Wang, and Joba (and yes some questions remain if he can hold up for 30+ starts) probably have Pettite, but Hughes and Kennedy are no longer relied upon to be in the rotation.

Also all other fans hear is how Brett Gardner is going to be the next great CF but there isn't much to back that up with. Sure maybe he blossom like Nate McLouth when he is 27 but I would have some doubts. Scouts like Keith Law and publications like BA consistently talk that at best he is a 4th outfielder if not a 5th. Yankee fans need to realize that their farm system has gone down, due too injuries, and bad performances. It will no longer be in the top 10 in baseball. That being said though I would not do a Melky and Kennedy deal for Cameron, Melky with another pitcher Horne maybe or someone below that I think is more fair.

Please oh PLEASE understand that it's not the Yankees over hyping this guy. Unless your saying the Yanks can influence Baseball America and Minor league basebal dot com and other "experts" then that's not the case. What is the case is that the Yanks for years have beem unable to develop young pitching. All 3 of them have dominated in the minors and have shown flashes of being very good in the majors. The term untouchable comes because we are or maybe were at one point committes to giving our own guys a chance. Add one season where we didn't make the playoffs and people are panicing. I think Kennedy is absolutely capable of being a 15 game winner and may even win 20 games one year. Look at what Mussina did this year with a fastball below 90 mph. I'm not betting on him being that good but he certainly deserves a chane to show what he can do and if he is traded it better be a part of a deal for someone a lot more important that Cameron. What do we lack? Young pitching? And you people are talking of trading him and signing guys like Lowe who's going to turn 36 next summer?

It's amazing how people run away with things. This is the quote:

It's always disappointing, but it's my first bad outing in a long time, since the All-Star break", said, Ian Kennedy, whose previous seven starts were in the minor leagues".

"I felt like I made some good pitches and got out of the second inning. 'I am not too upset about it'. You move on, and I have already done that. I am not going to look too much into it". ... Ian Kennedy, after Yankees 10-5 loss to Angels

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Not defending the guy but that sounds like a kid trying to say that he's not going to harp on the loss and will put it behind him a nd focus on the next start.

Bottom line.

The Brewers could care less about Cameron. He was either picked up to bait CC to resign or he was picked up to trade for something they felt was more valuable. What do the Yanks lack? Young players. Of all of our starters last year Nady and Cano were the only ones under 30. What sense does it make for a team, who many called old and athletic and lacking young pitching, to trade a young athletic players and a pitcher for a 36 year old CF on a one year rental? Period point blank. CF IS NOT a major problem. CF WAS NOT a reason we won 8 fewer games than last year. Therefor any trade of resources which you are lacking in (young talent) for something that doesn't address your biggest problems (pitching, 1st base, infield defense, younger more athletic players and improved obp) then what's the reasoning?

Cameron makes Yanks slightly better defensively. He gives them a few more homeruns and few stolen bases. That's hardly enough gained vs what Kennedy MIGHT do (become a good #3 or #4) or what Gardner might do (become a possible replacement for Damon as a leadoff hitter in 2010) or what Melky might become(as a serviceable CF who can put up the numbers he did in 07).

I believe that's called "pulling a Farnsworth".

Not to mention that his agent indicated his deal would have to be restructured in the way of "Johan Santana money" inorder for Peavy to approve coming to the Yanks. So that would mean Hughes, Kennedy and Jackson plus another 60 million.

@ doktoruber:

I know, my point was more to the fact that the Yankees have greater problems than Melky in CF. They need pitching. If the Yanks had better pitching this past season and made the playoffs, no one would be complaining about Melky.

Basically my argument has been summed up by most of the posters, Melky + the once "untouchable" Kennedy is probably too much for 1 year and $10M of Cameron (although I think the Brewers would eat some of that to get a better return).

- 1B

- Trade bait or DH

- Millar sucks

I agree "Nacho" Morgan. But if we fail to sign Tex what are our choices? I don't want to bring back Giambi because he's just horrible defensively and it would be unwise for us to use out top prospects for a 1B.

Ok in other threads it didn't sound like the Sox were willing to give him away for 2nd tier prospects. Meanwhile, Giambi can not be allowed to return. They've made it clear they want better infield defense especially at first, so standing pat is not an option. As far as finding a Carlos Pena guy that's sort of hit or miss. If anything Miranda could be that diamond in the rough since not much is expected of him. I still see Millar as a good alternative in case Tex falls thru. He's un upgrade over Giambi with the glove and can still give you 20 hrs and 80 rbis and draw 70 walks. Meanwhile, you're not giving up any players and he can be had on a 1 year deal @ 3 million. Sort of the same arguement people were trying to make for Cameron being brought in for CF except that in the case with Millar at 1st we don't have ANY viable in house solutions, unless they decide to move Nady to 1st, which is a position he's played with the Pirates, play Miranda, or play someone else out of position which is something Cash stated he didn't want to do.

Mark Kotsay is a much better option.

I'd love to see the Crew package a deal including Fielder, Weeks and Cameron for Kennedy, Cano and Cabrera.