Mets Bullpen Rumors: Monday

why does everyone think that Wood/Street would CONSIDER being set up guys? They have both proven records as closers. Why would they go down to being set up guys? And would would take a pay cut to be a set up guy? Or are the Mets going to be paying 3 closer salaries this coming year?

"Good. Sign K-Rod now so you can focus on a Wood or Street set-up and Re-Signing Pedro and 0llie."

Pedro--why? K-Rod's contract could turn out to be Pedro 2.0 given his apparent decline. That minuscule speed differential on his changeup didn't cut it against JD Drew in the ALDS and it won't cut it in the future...

Phils, it really soesn't matter what street wants, he is not a free agent, and not in a stonr position to demand he be a closer. Good point with wood though.

Citizensnips,

ya i was referring more to Wood than Street although Street i believe may be arbitration eligible and I'd doubt he'd be OK with being a set up guy. Wouldn't that affect what he would ASK for in arbitration?

I agree Pedro should be avoided like the plague by Mets fans. He was one year too many and at the end of last year and wasn't he being passed over in Sept. starts? He warrants an incentive laden contract, nothing else. But as a Phils fan, sign him to a 5 year extension!!!

RIPShea,

haha exactly what is a trool? your unique combination or troll and tool? And exactly what do the Eagles have to do with the conversation here? If you are a Giants fan you won the division, CONGRATS.

You are our rival, just as the Braves/Marlins/Nats are. Can't we comment on this?

Actually i'm not from Philly, I'm from NJ and I live in an area that is directly between NY and Philly so i get both SNY and CSN so i watched probably about 70-80 Mets games this year (flipped between the two when our games coincided), so i know a little bit about the Mets. Your announces for one are 100% better than ours. And, IMO Manuel while great for your team (his record proved that) he used too many pitchers per game in his many instances of using many multiple pitchers per inning. I wonder if that is perceived as a lack of faith in them and how it affected the psyche of each pitcher in the pen.

Also Pedro's ERA in Sept was 7.77 That doesn't warrant more than an incentive laden contract. Maybe he was mentally worn down from the passing of his father. If I were the Mets, I'd see what Niese got you in spring training and look to him to be a 5th starter, assuming you locked down a 4th one (either Perez or his replacement)

1-Santana
2-Pelfrey
3-Maine
4-???
5_Niese

And you honestly sound a little foolish lopping me in with every single Philadelphia area fan when you don't even know me. just sayin.

There's no reason not to sign Pedro to a 1 year deal based on games started. If he turns it down let him walk, but the Mets should at least attempt to grab some pitching depth (if you can even call Pedro that anymore).

Also, I don't know why people continue to value Street as a solid closer. He can be great but right now his value is at a career low and he lost his closer job to Ziegler last year. If there's any point where Street could reasonably have been thought of as a set-up man, its right now and the Mets should do everything they can to get him from the Rocks. Give them any combo of Heilman, Feliciano, Parnell/Kunz, Evans. With the Rockies' semi-interest in Heilman, that might be enough.

mford, did you just compared K-Rod with Pedro? I would say K-rod would be much better piching in the NL.

"haha exactly what is a trool? your unique combination or troll and tool? And exactly what do the Eagles have to do with the conversation here? If you are a Giants fan you won the division, CONGRATS."

I just have to say, all off-season, even as the playoffs were going on, Phillies fans were out to piss Mets fans off. Even the Phillies players were still talking about the Mets as they were winning the World Series. So Philly is the last group of fans to complain of the one Giants fan who said something about the Eagles.

Where did my second comment go?

wait a minute??? Philly fans don't like Mets fans and vice versa? Really. That's like saying Yankees fans don't like Red Sox fans and Dodgers fans don't like Giants fans. Are you sure.

alright enough with the sarcasm, Rollins mentioned it because of his little "tit for tat" with Beltran, ie Carlos' we've got Santana now we're the team to beat statement last year. Jimmy's simple point was that it takes a TEAM to win, not just a single player. Was he wrong?

AdropOFvenom,

you left off the rangers, who are definitely interested in Wood. Also, the Brewers aren't going to be in on Sabathia/Sheets for very long IMO.

"Fernando Martinez is still one of the best outfield prospects in baseball, and BJ Ryan is a slightly overpaid, slightly overrated veteran closer. I'm sorry but that deal is in no way fair.
"

Thanks. Guessing that's why it isn't happening.

As someone who was against this potential deal since the beginning, I'm willing to accept the K-Rod contract if it's at a reasonable rate, which would be at around what Billy Wagner got a few years ago and slightly below the garbage contract Francisco Cordero got a few years ago.

For the same people that are criticizing the signing of a 26-year old closer with already over 200 saves in his career and a below 2.50 ERA at market value just because his changeup doesn't have the same effect, just put yourself in the shoes of the Mets and their fans and the fact that you just blew a division you had in your back pocket because you couldn't even finish out games after the 7th inning!

I've never had a problem with Francisco Rodriguez - it's the potential contracts I was hearing that bothered me. If K-Rod is signed at a respectable rate, I have no problem with him being my closer.

Hell, it's better than seeing Aaron Heilman cursing into his glove, Scott Schoeneweis throwing up gopher balls to right handed hitters, and Billy Ray Benitez blowing another save at Citizens Bank Park.

metzfan22,

fair point, but i'm not sure if you were here earlier as his posts have been removed, so its hard to take the true context of it.

And MattyMets,

I wouldn't quite say it was in your backpocket. Both teams are pretty evenly matched (Phils and Mets) and while you lost the last 2 years someone had to step up and play well and the Phils certainly did. And my name is derived from watching some Mets fans (not necessarily you) on here and other boards that basically said we had no chance this year becuase of the Mets getting Santana. I made the name up about halfway through the season as a dig at them, never knowing it would actually come true. While you've got your "RESPECT" issues from Yankees fans, we have ours from you. That may be why some of our fans act as they do.

Minaya starts off talking with K-Rod Sunday, Fuentes Monday, Maybe Wood Tuesday. By the end of the week he is calling Joe the Plummer and asking him how his slider is working lately.

I believe the Mets end up signing a free agent as opposed to a trade and it ends up either Rodriguez or Fuentes.

''I wouldn't quite say it was in your backpocket. Both teams are pretty evenly matched (Phils and Mets) and while you lost the last 2 years someone had to step up and play well and the Phils certainly did. And my name is derived from watching some Mets fans (not necessarily you) on here and other boards that basically said we had no chance this year becuase of the Mets getting Santana. I made the name up about halfway through the season as a dig at them, never knowing it would actually come true. While you've got your "RESPECT" issues from Yankees fans, we have ours from you. That may be why some of our fans act as they do.''

Nah, nothing like that. Talking crap is nonsense. I have nothing but respect for the Phillies - they have come through when it has mattered most (especially this season). I think next year will be a good race between the two teams, if not the Marlins and Braves coming around as well.

But, I can't only help but think about what could've been if the Mets didn't blow TWO (just two) of those 29 games. That's nothing against the Phillies - it's just a testiment to our own team, and I'm sure it's the same way for anyone that believes the Mets blew it. If you have a division lead with less than 20 games left, then yes, you blew it. I could recall several games where I would just stare at the TV as to ask what the hell just happened, curse for a few seconds, then turn it off, and it was even worse for the games where I was actually at Shea and that happened, including Game 162 last year.

I could only hope that Omar could understand that frustration and actually build a workable bullpen this time. And it certainly doesn't have to be a big-money one - just give us a functional one, whatever it takes.

I think a fair trade for F-Mart would be someone like Justin Upton.

Any opinion of whether this move could be possible, Delgado, Shoenweiss, Niece + prospect to Giants for Cain. Giants get a back end ML ready SP in niece, a reliever, and a cleanup hitter they desperately need for a one year commitment at a reasonable price. Add another mid level prospect or two. I am just throwing it out there, any comments? Might be way off base on this one, know its not mentioned at all, but does anyone think the Giants would think about it?

The reason I bring this up would be the possibility of freeing up Delgado's salary and allowing room for Manny/Tex.

Signing Wood/trade for Street is also a very appealing option and most likely more cost effective. I like k-rod, but the Wood/Street option seems promising.

Fair enough, was thinking about that the other day. I would love it if they moved Delgado and his 12M this year for a pitcher and then had room for Manny in LF and Murphy at 1st.

a false report from Graziano? Get outta here

Mattymets-

I didn't mean Martinez straight up for a young star. But if you packaged him with say, Heilman or Parnell and a prospect, then you could likely pry away an Alex Rios type player. I'm fully aware that young stars don't really get dealt though. I was just saying moving Martinez for anything less doesn't make sense for New York.

And as for Justin Upton, I think he's probably one of the 15-20 most untouchable players in baseball. The guy has all the tools to be an all around superstar, and was considered one of the best prospects in recent memory. Not even worth talking about him.

''Mattymets-

I didn't mean Martinez straight up for a young star. But if you packaged him with say, Heilman or Parnell and a prospect, then you could likely pry away an Alex Rios type player. I'm fully aware that young stars don't really get dealt though. I was just saying moving Martinez for anything less doesn't make sense for New York.''

Scribble, I didn't say anything about Fernando Martinez in this post, lol. But while we are on the topic, I think the Mets should just hold onto him and see what they have. They had the opportunity several times to trade him for a star, and selling low on him for a non-star at this point just because he hasn't reached the majors yet and excelled would be foolish (see: Milledge, Lastings).

It also serves to be one of the signs of Omar's legacy in New York, as he's had several opportunities to get an impact bat/arm for him and he's declined.

Great offer and smart business move by Omar. Starting the closer market rolling with a low offer. I don't think a team will be coming in and offering much higher than the big-market Mets offer. K-Rod might not accept now, but the Mets will end up with their closer.

"Great offer and smart business move by Omar. Starting the closer market rolling with a low offer. I don't think a team will be coming in and offering much higher than the big-market Mets offer. K-Rod might not accept now, but the Mets will end up with their closer."

Not with that deal, he wont. If the Angels thought he would sign for that, they would throw in a year just to lock it down.

"I'm sure the Angels would be agreeable on a 3/36 type deal."

Do they still have the 4/52 deal on offer?

Something to consider is that the Angels seem pretty eager to hand the closing job over to Arredondo. If Krod signs back with the Angels for 3-4 years, is he even guaranteed the closer spot at the back end of that deal? That has to play into it... I know he wants money, but I'm sure he also wants to remain a closer rather than a setup guy.

Philadelphia fans make me sick. You're all front runners just listen to J-Roll. As for the I would like them to sign K-Rod and then sign Hoffman and possibly Chad Cordero. I know Hoffman is a close but maybe he'll take a pay cut to win.

wu-tang,

ya i love how you back up idiotic statements like that with facts. Well now we all are front runners since we won the World Series. You're right.

Oh and I'm severly biting my tongue over your last statement about Hoffman. I'm trying to be good, i really really am.

Also, as good as Arredondo was let's give K-Rod a little slack. He saved a record number of games, converted 90% of save opportunities and posted an ERA under 2.50. It's not like the guy is a chump.

Arredondo was a welcome surprise last year. I wouldn't count on his ERA remaining under 2.00 and I have no idea how he will handle the pressure of closing. The Angels do have enough good arms make something work if K-Rod isn't signed. I just wouldn't risk it if the price is 3/36.

damn the market for k-rod evaporated without anyone needing to get signed. looks like there never was a market for him at all, not with the money he wanted

If it's really a 2 year, $25 million offer, the Mets need to make sure they don't offend him....if they really think any of these other closers is on par with K-Rod, they are sorely mistaken. Mets need K-Rod, K-Rod needs the Mets. It's the perfect marriage. Someone on here put this up the other day:

2009: $12M
2010: $13M
2011: $14M
2012: $15M (VESTING OPTION)

That's a guaranteed 3 years, $39 Million, and the option would make the total deal 4 years at $54 Million. That is fair for both parties.

John, I can't stand Farnsworth's 98 mph, straight-as-an-arrow fastball, but I see your point. I really hope that Omar doesn't try to ''krazy glue'' this bullpen by signing K-Rod or Fuentes and leaving the core of this disaster (Feliciano-Schoeneweis-Heilman-Sanchez-etc.) intact. I mean you could leave a few of these guys on the team next year but he really needs some fresh blood in this bullpen. Enough is enough.

I would also like to see Luis Ayala back. I still have no idea why the Mets didn't offer him arbitration. Ayala was way out of his element as this team's closer but he's been an effective middle reliever in the past that ran into some problems in Washington last year.

Butch,

perception is reality. If KROD perceived it to be an insult then to him it is. I'm not saying that it is, but it is a risky move to do that. But it could pay off hamdsomely if they get him on the cheap . . . then assuming they go get another couple of arms for the pen.

2 weeks ago, the Mets could have moved in and had both kerry Wood and Jeremy Afeldt both signed for 2-3 years for what it will cost to get K-Rod at the pretty much the same injury risk, with Wood being the same power type and effective closer, proven effective in the NL East, only Omar spent the time hee hawing around with agents and Sabean swooped in and signed one of the best lefty closers around for a steal of a price (2 years, 7 mil total) and now, the mets have no viable lefty guy and Bemeil, are the Mets even talking with him, or are they totally concentrating everything playing circle talk with fuentes and K-Rod still while Bemeil signs elsewhere also? Just have a bad feeling that Omar is going to be left with a closer and everybody else's leftovers by the time either Fuentes, or K-Rod deside to sign with him after he desides to quit trying to be cheap on this closer they know he desperately needs, when the pretty much entire met bullpen needs rebuilding from the bottom up right now and so far, nothing has been done except losing Ayala, the best one it had left and Heilman who has already told Omar that he is not going to pitch in relief next season for them.

Not saying this as being a disliker of the Mets or anything, just confused why such a huge hole they have is being ignored so far into the off season.

Agreed. Schoeneweis is especially very successful against lefties - it is the .333 against righties that is troubling. Joe Beimel is unnecessary for this team, especially if both guys stay and/or Fuentes gets signed over K-Rod and Wood.

John, I think you should let this free agency play out to see if the Mets do anything to restructure this bullpen. However, I do hope this restructuring doesn't come in the form of a big free-agent closer signing and that's it.

I would also look into reclamation/injury projects such as Juan Rincon, Chad Cordero, etc. and see exactly what sticks here. All of these types of players take a very small monetary commitment and could turn out to be good signings. Look at someone like JC Romero, who was tremendous with the Twins years back, had a rough time for about a year, then came back to be a serviceable reliever with the Phillies.

Some of you guys just don't understand. It is annoying explaining the same things over and over. K-Rod get offended? Who cares? Is he going to be so offended that he walks away from the biggest offer? Is he going to be so offended that he goes to Milwaukee for 2/20? I didn't think so.

Omar is wasting time while other "top middle relief arms" sign? Seriously? Why the hell would Omar waste his time/resources negotiating with guys like Juan Cruz, Joe Beimel etc? If he wanted to sign one of those guys to close, then sure. Or if he wanted to sign 3 of them instead of signing K-Rod, then sure. But once you sign K-Rod, it would be stupid to go after type A middle relief arms. Just dumb. Once you find your closer, hit the scrap heap, scavenge the minors, look through Mexico and Japan for other relievers. You don't just go out and give the most money to whoever was the best last year. That is a horrible strategy for building a bullpen. You go out and like Matty said, find live arms for dirt cheap and you throw them off the wall and see what sticks. Signing the "best" middle relief arms for the most money is the best way to waste a load of cash and still come out with a bad pen. If they didn't want to pay K-Rod so they signed Cruz, Affeldt and Brocail or whatever then fine, but once you spend big dollars on a closer the rest of the bullpen will be fixed with low key pickups and trades. Find some failed starters, minor leaguers with big arms, international talent, rule 5 guys, etc. Building a bullpen is not really that hard to do. What big name middle relief pitchers did the Mets filthy pen have in 06? They signed Wags, they traded for Duaner Sanchez, the brought Feliciano over from Japan, they found Darren Oliver god knows where, they took a flier on Chad Bradford, and they had an amazing bullpen. Sure, you will always need a little luck but a bullpen full of minimum priced pickups is just as likely to succeed as a bullpen where each middle reliever is making 5 million.