Francoeur-Greinke Rumor Shot Down

I heard the Braves have soured a bit on Francoeur.

Surprised the Rangers aren't more involved for Greinke - they have been pretty hot for him.

No way this would be straight up...lol.

I know it's a long shot, but could you imagine the following rotation:
Burnett, Greinke, Jurrjens, Vazquez, Smoltz/Campillo/Morton

YIKES!!!

would love the deal, but there is zero chance of a Frenchy/Grienke swap....Id take a bag of baseballs for Frenchy.

It's not that crazy - this is all about potential. Francouer had 1 good year, 1 very good year and one bad year. Greinke has had 1 very good year. Both are cheap for a few more years.

Sounds like Moore's type of player. No OBP with a lot of hype.

The Braves must have much more invested in this trade then Francoeur.

So that would leave the Royals with what now - 8 OF's and 5 1B's? I call shenanigans.

"Greinke should easily cost more than Peavy."

Eh. I don't think so. I like Greinke a lot but I don't think his value is touching Peavy's yet.

In addition, wouldn't whoever gets him need to lock him up soon? How many years before he his FA? 2/3?

If true, it's like Schuerholz never left! Maybe even as team president he is still pulling his con-artist act over other GMs.

the fact that the Braves would be waiting to see what happens with A.J. tells me that Guillen would be coming over as well. And there would be a lot that would be going back to KC, but nobody out there knows the Atlanta farm system better than Moore. So I'm sure he has a list of guys that he brought to Atlanta (like Frenchy) that he would like to get.

Francoeur was putrid and players with his talent are a dime a dozen...

Greinke should have as much trade value as just about any young pitcher in baseball.

This rumor would be a steal for the Braves.

Where in the world would they even play Francoeur?

They are overloaded with corner outfielders and infielders....

The Royals are building a Men's Slow Pitch Softball Team...

This trade would be a very unbalanced trade in favor of the Braves, BUT Jeff Francouer is still very young and had a bad season last year, but the year before and a great season. Zach Grienke on the other hand isn't all that great. Yes, he's young, but he's got mental issues and isn't always in the game. If the Royals could trade DeJesus to someone like the Brewers for Rickie Weeks, then maybe this trade would work out for them.

Everyone, logic tell us this is false. Francoeur has zero trade value.

I agree with Dierkes. Coming from a Boston beat writer makes me a little suspicious. The braves would have to throw in a pitching prospect and one of their tier 2 prospects (Shafer, Gorkys, Freeman, Locke, etc.)

"But back to what I was saying. Two seasons of Zach Greinke isn't going to net Royals fans as much as you think....."

Yes he will.

Royals would be insane to do this straight up.

Greinke would be worth more in value in a trade than Peavy. Not because he is better - Peavy is and Peavy has a reasonable deal. But because (a) San Diego seemingly HAS to deal Peavy, whereas the Royals can hold onto Greinke; (b) Greinke has to go wherever the Royals tell him while Peavy has a NTC; (c) only 2-3 clubs seem to be able to trade for Peavy, while probably 10-15 clubs at least will be available to trade for Greinke.

Its all about the situation and context, I'm not saying Greinke is the better pitcher, just that the Royals are in a much better bargaining position than the Padres are. The Royals should demand a Dan Haren-esque deal, and if they don't get it, they should simply hold on to Zack.

Bdlugz,
What are you talking about?
Franocuer had one phenomenal half-season (his rookie year - 2005), 2 above average years (2006, 2007) and one bad year (2008).

Greinke has had one really good year (2008), 2 decent years (2004, 2007) and 2 mediocre years (2005-2006).

"Francoeur is a guy who needs to hit for a high average to have offensive value since he won't take a walk and sucks defensively."

Posted by: rememberthecoop | December 09, 2008 at 09:24 AM

sucks defensively? WOW, have you seen him play right field?

"Greinke/Guillen/$8 million cash for Escobar/Francoeur/Hernandez/Reyes/Schafer?"

Posted by: CSL | December 09, 2008 at 09:29 AM

Why would the Royals want all those outfielders in return? Before you start throwing proposals out there, you need to look at the needs for both teams and not just throw in random names.

You have curious definition of "decent" if you say an ERA+ of 127 is "decent.

Greinke has a way higher ceiling than Peavy, look at last years numbers and consider Peavy was in the way weaker NL and got to face the opposing pitcher plus Greinke is younger, not the health risk and doesn't make the high dollars for 2 more years

CSL--

i like that trade

but the braves wont trade both Hernandez AND Schafer.

Alanta Gets:
Greinke
Guillen

Kansas City Gets:
Escobar
Francoeur
Reyes
Hernandez
K. Medlen

SHOULD get it done.

Greinke has posted ERA+ of:

120
76
127
123

I'd say that's one bad season and three phenominal seasons. But you're right, im an idiot.

CSL, Schafer and Gorkys won't be in a trade together or in the same season. Everything that I've seen or heard it seems as either one or the other. Maybe Brandon Jones or another minor league arm instead.

Jurrjens should be apart of any deal for Greinke aswell

Don't see it...Absolute steal for the Braves...

the league average ERA is well above 4 so..grienke is an above average pitcher- i wouldnt call him an ace yet but hed be one hell of a good 2nd or 3rd starter on an average team

Francoeur's 2008 VORP: -17.8. That's right, Francoeur's VURP (Value Under Replacement Player) was 17.8.
The complete list of players who hurt their teams offensively more than Francoeur did:

Corey Patterson.
Tony Pena.

Nobody else.

I know some Royals fans are new to the discussion of Braves prospects.

FYI, Hanson, Jurrjens and Heyward are off the table, probably Freeman too. Only one of Schafer and Hernandez will be traded, most likely Hernandez.

I also highly doubt that the Braves will trade two regulars such as Francoeur and Escobar (no matter whether Francoeur should be a regular or not) and get a 32yo version of Francoeur at over $10 million more.

This is only two years of Greinke, so I'd think it's more likely to resemble the Peavy deal but with Francoeur replacing Escobar at the top.

"This is only two years of Greinke, so I'd think it's more likely to resemble the Peavy deal but with Francoeur replacing Escobar at the top."

That's great, but that means you won't get Grienke.

As much sense as this makes, it makes that little. I know the Royal's GM has a bro-crush on Francoeur, and I'm sure Frank Wren loves Greinke too, It'd take way more than Francoeur to get Greinke. Why sell low on Francouer? Francoeur is a home-town boy that Wren will NOT trade. Period. I've seen this rumor 10 times and every time it's been WRONG. I'm assuming this guy made it up off the top of his head or stole it from someone else who made it up off the top of their head.

Why the hell are the Royals even interested in Francouer? They need OBP and starting pitching. They should move use Aviles at 2B and sign Furcal. Then sign a veteran reliever such as Randy Johnson.

Jurrjens should be apart of any deal for Greinke aswell

Cody, the only way you would get JJ is 1 for 1. And yes I know that would never happen. That is why I'm saying it

Maybe the Royals are going to start 5 OFers this season?

OBP is not the be-all end-all of player evaluation. Sure, his was awful. But he also drove in over 100 runs 2 years in a row. Hit a decent amount of HRs. Was VERY young when he did it. Oh, and didn't he have something like the best BA in the majors with RISP for those two years? Francouer is by no means perfect, but he's a lot better than he's given credit for. A bad year is a bad year. The guy's what, 24? Greinke is good. Francouer is good, better than last year. What's with the blind bashing?

I was thinking the same thing. Royals start a bunch of OFers to take away any gaps.

Braves could really dominate the NL East for years to come if they make the right moves. This years Winter Meetings are big for Frank Wren.

It's not blind bashing, daslied. The stats don't lie. You can pick out something like RBIs, but the fact is that is not an important stat as it relies on team performance more than personal performance. Francoeur gets on base at a pretty abysmal clip, which is a much more important stats when you talk about runs created. His OPS+ has been well below average for two years, and at average for one for each full season he's played.

You ask why the bashing, I ask why the love? Why fall in love with a guy that is a below average hitter for his career with bad range and a great arm? He doesn't get on base, he never really takes walks, and he doesn't have that huge pop for a corner outfielder.

Believe me, i've fallen in love with some players on my team that I was kind of blind to their poor performance as well; but you can't come here reciting RBIs and AVG with RISP and make it all better. Over the course of an entire season, he has never lived up to the hype.

Greinke is good, VERY good, but let's not start the CC comparisons please. We're nowhere near that level yet.

Yeah, plus one is a lefty and the other is a righty. Greinke sounds more comparable to a Roy Oswalt than CC.

Well the story yesterday scouts were saying that if Greinke was traded the asking price was 3 major league ready players and 2 high level top prospects

Yeah well thats what happens when Alex Gordon.. well is.. Alex Gordon.

Yeah but they could easily pull off a Burnett/Greinke deal and have a better one two punch than Philly, plus have Jair. I'm not even a Braves fan, but If I were a philly fan, I would savor my recent world series victory.

Alex Gordon is a fine ballplayer a .350 plus obp is great for a 2nd year player. 2nd half of the year he was around .380obp and if he would have missed 25 games his numbers were have been 20 hrs and 80 rbis in a ballpark thats not home run friendly at all

Even as a Braves fan, this doesn't make sense. Frank Wren wouldn't allow the Burnett dealings to hold this trade up. If he could get Greinke, he would go for it and drop the offer to Burnett.

My only concern with trading for Greinke would be that he only has two years left on his deal. If anything more than Francoeur is offered, then it needs to be a sign and trade deal where Greinke at least agrees to a 2 year extension (at a significant pay raise).

And for those talking about Jurrjens, that isn't happening. Why would the Braves trade their own 22 year old star pitcher (who is locked up for several more years) with no health issues at all for a 25 year old pitcher who has 2 years on his contract and has a history of mental health concerns. Doesn't make sense does it?

And the Braves aren't trading Heyward, Hanson, or Freeman for anyone. They are all untouchable. Nor are they trading Francoeur, Schafer, and Hernandez. That would leave the Royals with a ton of outfielders and the Braves with none of them.

The Royals would be very stupid to do this.

Dayton Moore is a great GM he'll find a way to fleece the Braves if he wants too