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Odds And Ends: Padres, Manny, Braves

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [January 11, 2009 at 10:21am CST]

Links for Sunday...

John Moores will remain majority owner of the Padres for three or four years even if he agrees to sell the team to Jeff Moorad, according to Tom Krasovic. Major league executives say Padres CEO Sandy Alderson is likely to leave if Moorad takes over.
In a recent poll, Giants fans were divided on the idea of signing Manny Ramirez.
The Pirates haven't offered Doug Mientkiewicz a contract.
Thomas Stinson looks at an offseason of "mediocrity" for the Braves.
Bobby Cox likes the looks of Kenshin Kawakami.
Larry LaRue asks who's on first for the Mariners this year.
Joe Posnanski sees Adam Dunn and Willie Bloomquist as opposites in a way.
Michael Silverman compares the pre-Bronx careers of Mark Teixeira and Jason Giambi.

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Comments

If Sandy Alderson leaves, does DePo leave? I still think he's a great Assistant GM and would be a great GM if given another shot. Sometimes you need to fail to see your shortcomings as a person to succeed later in life.

Posted by: DodgersBruin | January 11, 2009 at 10:29 AM

Thomas Stinson looks at an offseason of "mediocrity" for the Braves.

Any true Braves fan that reads that can really relate to everything he says.

Posted by: Bravesfan10 | January 11, 2009 at 10:34 AM

YAY!!! i didnt dbl post

Posted by: Bravesfan10 | January 11, 2009 at 10:35 AM

YAY!!! i didnt dbl post

Posted by: Bravesfan10 | January 11, 2009 at 10:35 AM

Bravesfan10, I'm a true Braves fan and I think Stinson's article is absurd.

For one thing, he blows any credibility he might have as a Braves writer (which he's not) by suggesting that Ted Turner owned the Braves until 2007. Turner lost control of the Braves in 1996 when Time Warner bought TBS.

More importantly, he's over-reacting to the Smoltz thing just like a bunch of bloggers on the AJC site did... but most are gradually coming to understand what happened and why, and are calming down.

Braves have added close to 400 innings of good (not great) starting pitching in Vazquez and Kawakami; and appear on the verge of adding another 200 in Lowe.

Still plenty of time and $$ to add a LF like Dunn or Abreu... and it's a hugely successful offseason, IMO.

The '09 Braves may not win any championships, but they'll be much better than the last couple of years.

Posted by: AtlantaMike | January 11, 2009 at 10:43 AM

IMO.

What does that mean?

Posted by: Bravesfan10 | January 11, 2009 at 10:52 AM

IMO means ''In My Opinion''

Posted by: Rolling{Night}Hawk{09} | January 11, 2009 at 10:55 AM

Very well said AtlantaMike. As it stands now I feel we are about halfway towards a really good offseason. If we get Lowe and Dunn, I can't see how anyone can complain. LIke you said, we may not be winning a championship, but we would be well on our way back to the top.

Posted by: bbxxj | January 11, 2009 at 11:01 AM

Nice post AtlantaMike, couldn't have said it better myself. I can actually have legit conversations with bloggers here, and MOST (not all) of the ajc bloggers are just a bunch of whiney babies. The Braves are in a reconstuction mode and they're finally willing to spend the money. I think they will make a strong push for Lowe and the aquisition of Kawakami only bettered our chances of getting Lowe. Then we can start thinking about LF. We need a guy with pop and Dunn's always in the tops for home runs if u can overlook defence and Ks.

Posted by: BravoMan | January 11, 2009 at 11:19 AM

What about waiting and see if we can acquire Jason Bay or even Matt Holliday?

Posted by: Bravesfan10 | January 11, 2009 at 11:27 AM

Thanks guys. I thought I was the only one who was kinda' pumped about the offseason. ('course, Lowe and Dunn aren't signed yet...)

Someone in another thread referenced the '04 Braves, who won 96 games with a rotation without an ace (unless you consider Russ Ortiz an ace).

This staff (Lowe, JJ, Vazquez, Kawakami, and then Glavine/Campillo/Reyes/Morton), with Hanson in the wings, and maybe even Hudson coming back in August, could be pretty solid. And if the 'pen can stay healthy... well, that's a good pitching staff.

Posted by: AtlantaMike | January 11, 2009 at 11:27 AM

AtlantaMike,
You're not the only one, I'm pumped aswell. I'm thinking(assuming the Braves aquire Lowe) they may trade Vazquez next winter to make room for Huddy and Hanson. They don't have to pick up Hudson, but I would.
2010
1.Hudson
2.Lowe
3.Jurrjens
4.Kawakami
5.Hanson

Posted by: BravoMan | January 11, 2009 at 11:39 AM

"What about waiting and see if we can acquire Jason Bay or even Matt Holliday?"

Bay isn't leaving Boston. And Holliday won't be traded until July 31st or held until the end of the year.

Posted by: DodgersBruin | January 11, 2009 at 11:39 AM

"Someone in another thread referenced the '04 Braves, who won 96 games with a rotation without an ace (unless you consider Russ Ortiz an ace)."

I honestly don't think the "ace" designation comes into play until the playoffs. It's about having a good staff more than it is about having that "ace".

I wouldn't say the 2004 Braves didn't have a true "ace" though. Jaret Wright, although he did have a flukish year, had a 3.28 FIP. That's VERY ace like. But, they didn't have an ace in name.

Plenty of teams have made the playoffs without having a true "ace" (I'll make the designation as an FIP under 4, to make the ace definition generous. And because ERA is terribly flawed).

You can make the playoffs, and get pretty far in them without having a true "ace" on the staff.

4.12/4.19/4.22/4.89 --> 2006 A's (all SP who went 100+ innings).

Posted by: melonis rex | January 11, 2009 at 11:42 AM

"What about waiting and see if we can acquire Jason Bay or even Matt Holliday?"
The Braves have a ton of young OFs coming up in their system. I think they're waiting to use them in a year or two. So it would be best if they traded for Nady to have for a year or sign Dunn for a couple of years. Someone to fill the void while Heyward and Schafer is in the minors.

Posted by: BravoMan | January 11, 2009 at 11:46 AM

And complete crap coming out of the #5 spot (with the exception of the 40 or so IP Rich Harden pitched).

Posted by: melonis rex | January 11, 2009 at 11:46 AM

Thanks guys. I thought I was the only one who was kinda' pumped about the offseason. ('course, Lowe and Dunn aren't signed yet...)

It's not that i'm not pumped, i'm pissed at what we could have had.(Peavy,Burnett,Furcal).

But, and that is a big but(LOL), after reading ur post(thanks for helpin me realize that FW is tryin his best and people like Stinson should shut the fu## up) i realize what would happened if we would gotten those guys

Peavy= We would've have to gotten rid of Hanson,Escobar,Boyer,Morton,and more

Burnett= 5yr/80 million of Mike Hampton 2

Furcal= May had to trade Kelly or Escy(yunel) or put Kelly in left further diminidhing the chanche of Jason Bay,Adam Dunn,Bobby Abreu

Thanks AtlantaMike..keep up the good work!!!!

Posted by: Bravesfan10 | January 11, 2009 at 11:48 AM

"The Braves have a ton of young OFs coming up in their system. I think they're waiting to use them in a year or two. "

That's why I say wait till '09 offseason. IF Frenchy rebounds, then he can be the starting RF with Heyward and Schafer taking LF and CF. If he doesn't, sign Bay/Holliday.

Yeah but Gorkys will probably not have the bat to play a corner OF position.

Schafer at CF.

Heyward at RF.

Posted by: melonis rex | January 11, 2009 at 11:48 AM

melonis, good points about Wright in '04. Yeah, good numbers. I'd add to my definition of an "ace" a guy who gives you around 6.5 innings per start, in addition to quality. But, it's a subjective title, I guess.

Posted by: AtlantaMike | January 11, 2009 at 12:05 PM

Bravesfan10,
I agree with your statements that Wren's previous ventures may have not turned out so well in the long run, but I have my own opinion of the 3 and why Wren shouldn't be blamed for not aquireing them. O and yes ppl like Stinson should be slapped.

Peavy-Only wanted to play for the Cubs. Wren gave Towers a killa offer but as Chipper said in Sporting News, " If Peavy wanted to play for us, he'd be here."

Burnett-Wife wanted him to play close to home. You can never outbid the Yankees.

Furcal=Major Dbag. Used atlanta to squeeze more money from LA. Would you want a guy like that on your team. Wren said they had a gentlemen's agreement and Furcal denied it. Someone's lying and Wren would have no reason to do so. Furcal is also a injury bug and we don't need that.

Smoltz- If Wren were to gamble on a pitcher it would be one he knew would pitch next year and for Smoltz that remains to be seen. I thought ATL's offer was pretty could considering Smoltz coulda made 12 mil with us if competely healthy. I wish Smoltz the best of luck in Boston. I know Braves fans don't like it but It's time for a change

Wren=smart GM

Posted by: BravoMan | January 11, 2009 at 12:06 PM

Brewers GM Doug Melvin said Saturday that he is "not motivated to move" Mike Cameron. The Yankees have expressed interest, but it looks like Milwaukee is going to hang onto their 36-year-old high-priced center fielder. Cameron told reporters Saturday that he is unaffected by all the trade talks. "As far as I'm concerned, I'm a Brewer until somebody calls me and tells me otherwise," he said. "I have no control over that. Doug talked to me and told me what was going on, and I appreciate that. If I'm back in Milwaukee, that's cool with me."

Posted by: Rolling{Night}Hawk{09} | January 11, 2009 at 12:08 PM

I agree even though Wren botched a few signings none of them were truly his fault. He is a good GM and has a nice core to work with. Of course the Braves have no sure fire ACE but i like teams like that. Its called being scrappy, because you fight for what you want and at least you know that you have a shot everyday and that should be every teams mentality. Wren is a good GM for the Braves and the scrappy mentality he brings along with him to the is a good one.

Posted by: Rolling{Night}Hawk{09} | January 11, 2009 at 12:12 PM

to the Braves*

Posted by: Rolling{Night}Hawk{09} | January 11, 2009 at 12:12 PM

"If Gorkys won't fit, could we include him in a trade and NO not the Peavy deal..lol"

I'd like to see the Braves get through '09 without trading Gorkys. We REALLY need for either Schafer or Gorkys to be the CF for the Braves for a decade or so. If Schafer can't get it done (I'm concerned about his weak numbers against LHP, but hopefully he'll figure it out), I'd like to keep our options open, if possible.

That said, they're both too good in CF (defensively), and neither really has the power to play in a corner OF spot. So I see one getting traded down the road... but hopefully not this year.

Posted by: AtlantaMike | January 11, 2009 at 12:18 PM

If the Braves sign Sheets and Lowe and Sheets pitches more than 100 innings, they surely have a top 3 rotation in the NL.

Lowe-JJ-Vasquez-Sheets-Kawakami

Posted by: QuadBravesFan | January 11, 2009 at 12:33 PM

"I'd like to see the Braves get through '09 without trading Gorkys. We REALLY need for either Schafer or Gorkys to be the CF for the Braves for a decade or so. If Schafer can't get it done (I'm concerned about his weak numbers against LHP, but hopefully he'll figure it out), I'd like to keep our options open, if possible."

I agree.

An interesting trade scenario to ponder in 2010-2011 would be Gorkys for one of the A's young pitchers.

If most of Anderson, Cahill, Gio, Mazarro, Gallagher, and Simmons reach their ceilings or come close to their ceilings, there will be a pitching logjam. The A's also lack a true CFer in the system, since they traded Gonzalez. I could see that going down if both Schafer and Gorkys panned out.

Posted by: melonis rex | January 11, 2009 at 12:40 PM

Quad, if Sheets is healthy, he IS a number one, IMO. But, if the Braves sign Lowe, I don't think they'll sign Sheets or any other starters except maybe Glavine at a huge discount.

They set out to add 2 starters, and would have already added three (Lowe, Kawakami, and Vazquez).

Posted by: AtlantaMike | January 11, 2009 at 12:40 PM

"If the Braves sign Sheets and Lowe and Sheets pitches more than 100 innings, they surely have a top 3 rotation in the NL.

Lowe-JJ-Vasquez-Sheets-Kawakami"

Braves would never block Hanson by signing both Lowe and Sheets. It's one or the other.

Posted by: melonis rex | January 11, 2009 at 12:40 PM

Sheets isn't blocking Hanson if it's a one/two year deal

Posted by: QuadBravesFan | January 11, 2009 at 12:44 PM

Braves Future OF:

LF Gorkys

CF Schaefer

RF Heyman

Posted by: mikelovesbaseball94 | January 11, 2009 at 12:55 PM

Yea would be an okay plan B option for the Braves if they don't aquire Lowe. Like AtlantaMike said Wren planned to aquire 2 SP and a LF with power. Wren's already got 2 SPs and is going to acquire an extra one to make up for the loss of Smoltz, but he won't get anymore than 3(Vazquez, Kawakami, and Lowe).

Posted by: BravoMan | January 11, 2009 at 12:58 PM

I was refering to Sheets in my 1st sentence. My bad

Posted by: BravoMan | January 11, 2009 at 12:59 PM

^Heyward

Posted by: QuadBravesFan | January 11, 2009 at 12:59 PM

mikelovesbaseball, an outfield of Gorkys, Schafer and Heyman (LOL) would be the best defensive outfield... maybe ever! and good team speed. Maybe if Freeman develops as a slugging 1B, and we can replace Chipper with a 3B with some power (Eric Campbell, are you listening?)... we could go with that group. It would be fun to watch.

Posted by: AtlantaMike | January 11, 2009 at 01:04 PM

I was the one who brought up the 04 team with no "ace" but I think everyone when projecting our outfield is leaving out Francoeur. I mean this guy is still a great talent, and if he gets back to where he is supposed to be then I think you can look for Gorkys or Schaefer to be traded in a year or two or maybe one is the 4th outfielder maybe?

Posted by: ScottBravesfan19 | January 11, 2009 at 01:11 PM

Can anyone give me anything about Heyward? I have heard his name but is he like a 30 HR type guy with OK speed and OK defense? or is he like a 20 HR 20 SB guy who is a gold glove type?

Posted by: ScottBravesfan19 | January 11, 2009 at 01:12 PM

I would assume we would sign a free-agent 3b at some point. I'm not sold on any of our 3B specs.

Posted by: QuadBravesFan | January 11, 2009 at 01:17 PM

Mlb.com conpared him to Dave Parker and Willie McCovey.

Posted by: QuadBravesFan | January 11, 2009 at 01:18 PM

Well that wouldnt be to bad LOL :)

Posted by: ScottBravesfan19 | January 11, 2009 at 01:19 PM

This might be a lot of for-granted stuff, but if all of Schaefer, Heyward, Hernandez, Francoeur, Mccann, KJ, Escobar, then either Freeman or Kotchman along with maybe someone surprising us at 3B or just a FA then Hanson, Jurrjens, Locke, Rohborough, and maybe Reyes or Morton along with some relievers. WOW! Braves could be awesome for a long while!

Posted by: ScottBravesfan19 | January 11, 2009 at 01:25 PM

There was a rumor floated out with Sheets quickly dropping price he could be an option for the Braves. Lowe, Dunn, and an incentive laden one year deal for Sheets would be an outstanding off season by Wren.
1. Sheets
2. Lowe
3. Vasquez
4. Jurrjens
5. Kawakami
Plus we'd have Morton, Reyes, Campillo, potentially Glavine, and Hanson as injury replacements. I think it would be good to not rush Hanson and make sure he dominates AAA before jumping him to the majors. He could come right out of Spring Training next year for a starting spot.

Posted by: bravesfan22193 | January 11, 2009 at 01:50 PM

Don't you think Boras will come back to the Mets before he signs the Braves contract offer? I say Lowe to the Mets, 3/45 with a vesting option. If they cheap out and sign Ollie (who apparently is worse than Odalis Perez), I'll be furious. A bat MUST be added if Lowe is not in a Met uniform in 2009.

Posted by: metsobsessed | January 11, 2009 at 03:00 PM

Bravoman - To call the offer Wren made for Peavy a "killer offer" is a tad overstated. It was a nice offer, but far from "killer".

I understand Braves fan (as well as most fans) desire to overrate their prospects future, but, the Escobar package was not killer.

Good luck this offseason.

Posted by: Just another idiot | January 11, 2009 at 03:13 PM

Not sure if anyone is on this post anymore, but I did some research of some of our prospects we are talking so highly of and I am not quite as excited about Heyward and Locke. Locke went 5-12 last year and Heyward only hit .182 in the Winter League and is a few months younger than me! Maybe he turns it around, but didnt look incredibly impressive just from the numbers.

Posted by: ScottBravesfan19 | January 11, 2009 at 03:16 PM

Scott, when judging a minor league pitcher win-loss record is not how you do it. Locke's numbers dont strike anyone as overly impressive but he's lefty, throws well, and has good potential. If you want a pitching prospect scouts are higher on, cole rohrbough. Winter League isnt where you should be judging Heyward look at his minor league stats. He's really good the only part of his game that's behind is power. Even that is at worst slightly above average at this point and since he's only 19 scouts predict he'll add home run power in the next couple of years

Posted by: bravesfan22193 | January 11, 2009 at 05:53 PM

I'm afraid I must apologize to Wren for freaking out on the smoltz thing (first time that i was mad at him) He knew what he was doing it seems.

We've picked up Kawakami and looks like we might get DLowe. And now if we can just pick up a LF ( anyone know how good Swisher is? I'd prefer to have him over Nady because of contract, or pick up Abreu or Dunn. How far away is Heyward?)

Anyway things look a lot better then just a few days ago. So Frank I'm sorry for doubting you and hope you continue doing a good job.

Posted by: BravesFan101 | January 11, 2009 at 08:20 PM

Braves101, Swisher was very good with Oakland but for some reason dropped off considerably last year. Decent power, not a high average, but good OBP, solid fielder in the corner outfield spots, average speed i think. Nothing spectacular, but he's got a nice, friendly contract. They'd prefer to move Nady though. I think Heyward is a guy who will be up late 2010/start of 2011. Some fans want him to start right out of spring training next year but I am strongly against this. He's 19 years old right now, he needs around 2 more years in my opinion. Let him develop his home run power in the minors. All of this is why I'm a big supporter of a Dunn signing for 2 years

Posted by: bravesfan22193 | January 11, 2009 at 09:09 PM

I'm sure Wren reads this regularly. He commented something about revoking your season tickets, so you may want grovel a little harder.

Posted by: indybucfan | January 11, 2009 at 09:18 PM

Braves were penny wise and pound foolish for letting Boston rip away an iconic pitcher. Ask yourself this: why would Boston want this guy if he was finished? You bite the bullet and give him a serious financial offer.

I suppose if it allows them to get Lowe it wouldn't be a total loss.

Posted by: optionn | January 11, 2009 at 10:18 PM

"Braves were penny wise and pound foolish for letting Boston rip away an iconic pitcher. Ask yourself this: why would Boston want this guy if he was finished? You bite the bullet and give him a serious financial offer."

The reason why we didnt sign smoltzy back is that we didnt know how much more he had left in him and why risk it when a Lowe/ *Healthy Sheets" is still out there i think a rotation will look like this by opening day

Lowe/Sheets
JJ
Vasquez
Kawakami
Compillo/Glavine/Morton

Bringing hanson directly into the roataion would be a bad thing let him develop more in AAA and do what tampa bay did with Price this season bring him up during september or mid aug. and let him work out of the bullpin to give him more experince istead of doing like the pirates did with all of their top pitching prospects.

Im upset for this offseason went but not at Wren he had no control of peavy, burnett, and furcal it is there loss for them not wanting to come to atlanta and play in a great city and with the best manager in the show!!!

Posted by: Shawn | January 12, 2009 at 02:21 AM

Agree 100% Shawn. The only thing I have ever got mad at Frank about was Smoltz but after having some time to let the shock wear off I see it probably for the best.

also IndyBucFan I'm afraid that I don't have season tickets as I live in Mississippi :( but I'm still sorry Frank! XD

Anyway Swisher looks like he would help but that depends on what we would have to give up for him. Best probably just to sign Dunn or Abreu.

Posted by: BravesFan101 | January 12, 2009 at 07:00 AM

Shawn, I agree with you on limiting the innings, and pressure, on the young pitchers. Their day will come, but I'd much rather take it as slow as possible.

If Wren can indeed sign Lowe, he will have worked magic, IMO. Came into this offseason with one, count 'em ONE, proven starting pitcher on the roster (Jurrjens). To have four would solid guys would be fantastic.

Posted by: AtlantaMike | January 12, 2009 at 10:45 AM

The Braves could have a good team out there next year, and a great team in 2010.

Wren should go to ownership and ask for an extra $15 million to sign Manny! The lineup could certainly use the pop, and with Chip and ManRam in the middle of that lineup the Braves are a legitimate World Series threat!

Posted by: Roberty | January 12, 2009 at 10:59 AM

Manny could never co-exist with Bobby Cox, thats a PR disaster in waiting..

Posted by: baseball101 | January 12, 2009 at 08:02 PM

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Odds And Ends: Padres, Manny, Braves

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