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« Cardinals Exploring Lefty Relief Options | Main | Miguel Tejada Still Fond Of Orioles »
Pedro A Closer Candidate For Cards?
Joe Strauss of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch writes about the possibility of the Cardinals pursuing Pedro Martinez as a possible closer candidate:
[GM John] Mozeliak is scheduled to meet today with [manager Tony] La Russa and his coaches to discuss the camp's progress. The discussion might include discussion of Martinez as an option at closer. La Russa suggested in November that the club should expand its consideration to include veteran starting pitchers. Martinez has a recent history of shoulder problems but said Tuesday he would be open to the possibility of closing.
The World Baseball Classic might be a decent test of whether Pedro can perform in a relief role. In yesterday's exhibition game, Martinez was clocked as high as 91 mph according to Arthur Staple of Newsday. It appears that he has yet to be offered a Major League deal.
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As not only a Mets fan, but as a Pedro Martinez fan, who has watched Pedro very closely for the last four years, I have to say that Pedro as a closer would be a HUGE failure. He ALWAYS struggles through the first inning as he tries to find his bearings and establish his control. He doesn't throw very hard anymore, so he can't rely on a dominant fastball to get him through whilke his control is lacking. I love Pedro and would love to see him be successful, but there is NO WAY he would find success as a closer.
Posted by: Harold | March 05, 2009 at 08:43 AM
Thanks for explaining that harold....saved me time..there is no way he can close based on those reasons, i have also been watching him as a mets fan
Posted by: boerismo | March 05, 2009 at 08:55 AM
His success as a closer will be questionable but his numbers won't be the problem.
Pedro WILL get injured; it's not a matter of if anymore.
As closer, he will try and extert as much pressure on his arm as possible to get batters out.
How many closers do you know that aren't power pitchers?
All that stress from pitching on consecutive days and warming up will get to him. Although he will be limited to less than maybe 60 innings, Pedro is the in the part of his career where it only takes 1 bad inning to blow out his arm.
He said he won't sign an incentive laden deal so I don't know how else teams can bypass his injury risk.
Posted by: strikethree | March 05, 2009 at 08:55 AM
I agree. Pedro is not a closer.
Strauss is an idiot and should not be making any baseball opinions/speculation.
Posted by: hombrej | March 05, 2009 at 08:57 AM
Good starters can generally transition into the closer role because it's so different than starting. Pedro wouldn't have to pace himself which may very well alleviate any trouble he has with early innings or his fastball. If you know you're coming in for one inning it's much different than trying to get yourself through at least 5 and hopefully more. Pedro is running on fumes but mediocre guys like Todd Jones was running on fumes for years, and yet they were still successful closers who would have done worse than Pedro did last year as a starter. I'm not saying Pedro would be a lights out closer, it's just that saying he can't close based on his performance as a starter is a non sequitur.
Posted by: pageian | March 05, 2009 at 09:01 AM
Harold, one thing you're forgetting. If a pitcher knows he's only throwing 1 inning versus having a goal of throwing 9, he'll act differently. I'm not saying Pedro could be a great closer, but the situation vaguely reminds me of 2005 when the Sox put Schilling in as closer briefly. Schilling was half way decent. Pedro might be the same.
Posted by: start_wearing_purple | March 05, 2009 at 09:03 AM
Schilling had a 5.18 ERA as a reliever that year. Not good.
Posted by: Teetz | March 05, 2009 at 09:18 AM
No one knows if Pedro will be a good closer until they try him in that role, but to say that he ALWAYS struggled in the first inning is both unsupported and blatantly incorrect.
For his career, the hitters Pedro has faced in the first inning of games have combined for a .669 OPS off of him. The average OPS off of Pedro overall is .610, meaning that hitters are about 9% better off of him in the first inning.
Comparatively speaking, throughout Major League Baseball in 2008, teams scored an average of .52 runs per inning, but in the first inning of games, they averaged .59 runs, which is also 9% more, and makes sense because the first inning always consists of the top of the order.
In the end, Pedro is no worse during the first inning than the rest of the league. I don't know if he will be a good closer or not, but any struggles he might have had in the first inning of games are certainly not an argument against it.
Posted by: Jeff Moore | March 05, 2009 at 09:24 AM
takes too long to warm up
Posted by: metsfan23 | March 05, 2009 at 09:28 AM
The Cardinals don't need a closer.
Posted by: melonis rex | March 05, 2009 at 09:30 AM
Right...because 87mph 2-seamers in the 9th inning is something to strive for. Especially when you have an organization full of live arm stud reliever prospects.
Posted by: matthew.falzano | March 05, 2009 at 09:31 AM
Cardinals to smart for this. the man is done. Period. Let's move on
Posted by: rockford | March 05, 2009 at 09:46 AM
Jeff, I don't think you can use career stats, the numbers are skewed from when he was unhittable. HIs career ERA is under 3 but that doesn't mean he'll give you an ERA under 3 now. I would have my reservations about him trying it, but if he does, I hope it works for him.
Posted by: ilikebaseball | March 05, 2009 at 09:51 AM
Ok Jeff, point taken, but I'm not talking about about Pedro over his career, I'm talking about his time with the Mets - and particularly the last couple of seasons, where his fastball velocity is consistently around 90 mph, if not lower. The fact is that upon entering a game, Pedro is not accurate wit his pitches, and you can't expect a guy with control problems as he enters a game to be able to get guys out, especially if he has to come in with runners on.
Posted by: Harold | March 05, 2009 at 10:02 AM
Yes Jeff is missing the point that you aren't talking about when Pedro was a dominant starter tossing high 90s heat. Last year Pedro was brutal early in games. In his first 15 pitches, he had a 8.78 ERA, .377 BAA (6 of the 23 hits were homers). In his next 15 pitches, he had a 6.19 ERA, .349 BAA. Perhaps it would be different if he knew that he was only going to toss one inning, but last year he was always getting torched by the first few batters.
Posted by: Chris | March 05, 2009 at 10:16 AM
if you're not going to trade chris perez in part of a matt holiday deal, then you better give him the closer job and forget all this pedro nonsense. what's next from the kooky kardinals... rick ankiel pitching?
Posted by: scootie puff jr. | March 05, 2009 at 10:37 AM
Is this actually a serious idea?
The Cardinals have two VERY solid options at closer with Chris Perez and Jason Motte, and yet they'll look at freaking Pedro Martinez instead of handing the job to one of those young guys? Right.
Pedro just doesn't seem to profile as a closer. His fastball is down to the 86-89 MPH range, and he's becoming a pretty homer-prone pitcher. I would argue that Pedro's control and ability to mix up pitches would make him profile much better in a starters role. The Cards could look at him for that too, considering they're depending on Carpenter, Wellemeyer and Piniero this year, not exactly a dependable bunch.
Posted by: scribbletone | March 05, 2009 at 11:18 AM
Scribbleton,
Wellemeyer has been a really solid starter the last two years. What are you talking about? Pineiro is not a good pitcher...but it is not like he was atrocious last year. He was about league average for a 5th starter.
Carp has some things to prove more skeptical fans but all lights are green right now.
I agree with you whole heartedly on Perez and Motte. I am not against Pedro, but it is the very idea that La Russa is looking at EVERY possible option that is not Perez and Motte as closer. What kind of message does that send to your pitchers when they have no confidence whatsoever in you? I understand not giving them the job...but give them a chance to earn save opportunities! What the heck is Tony's problem? (Rhetorical question, I know he hates most rookies)
Posted by: JBCardsFan | March 05, 2009 at 12:08 PM
I don't see Pedro working out in the closer role. There have been alot of pitchers switch to closer later in their carerr, but most of them still had a power pitch. 91 mph is not a power pitch for a closer.
But as a Cubs fan, I say the Cards should sign him and let him throw the last 5 innings of every Carpenter start this season. Not close, more of a long relief man.
Posted by: Tony | March 05, 2009 at 01:17 PM
While we're at it, could someone with inside knowledge of the Cardinals let me know who the leader for the closer role is between Motte and Perez? I have fantasy baseball drafts coming up.. :p
Posted by: MattyMets | March 05, 2009 at 01:35 PM
In terms of signing Martinez as a closer. Closers do not have to be fire ballers. Who is the all time saves leader? A changeup artist. Who was the most dominant closer of the mid 1980's through the mid-1990's? A converted starter who didn't have a fastball left. Could Pedro close? Who knows. It's worth a shot.
(By the way: Answers: Trevor Hoffman and Dennis Eckersley)
Posted by: A | March 05, 2009 at 02:05 PM
MattyMets,
Answer to your question: toss up between either Franklin or closer-by-committee. Neither Motte or Perez are in the running for the exclusive closer role as of right now.
Posted by: JBCardsFan | March 05, 2009 at 02:12 PM
Ha..
Pedro wishes he could still throw 91..
And you seem to underestimate how few pitchers throw harder than 91-93 MPH.
Posted by: scribbletone | March 05, 2009 at 02:13 PM
Nah, Pedro could still pump 91. Not consistently, but once he gets going a little bit and when he needs a strikeout he can dial it up a little bit (relatively speaking). Even going back to 2005, that was the case. He couldn't stay at that velocity for 6 innings plus obviously, but he can throw a handful of 90-92's during the course of a game. He just doesn't have to throw hard because his location is so good and he throws so many different pitches with movement. I almost hope that Maine or one of the Mets starters go down for a month, just so Pedro will be resigned. The guy can still pitch, and he will show everybody that this year. His changeup is a plus pitch, he still throws a sharp curveball, the only thing off was his command of his fastball/cutter, he left a ton of balls out over the plate which is why his HR totals were so ridiculous. The thing is, I thought that it was almost expected that pitchers in their first season coming off arm surgery will struggle with command, and that command is usually the last thing to come back, usually in your second season back. It seems to be common knowledge, so I don't get why people are so quick to tell Pedro he is finished. Look at what Mike Mussina did, and he was older then Pedro and he was never close to the pitcher that Pedro was.
Posted by: nrmax88 | March 05, 2009 at 03:06 PM
I don't think the Cards should pick him up as a closer. He is looking for better than Glavine money from the report a few days ago and he's had an injury-plagued back-end to his career. Although I believe that starters can convert into the closer role, if the Cards were going to sign him he should be more of a 5th starter role which the Cards don't need. The Nationals should pick him up though that might be seen as a major upgrade to the pitching staff considering their horrid rotation.
Posted by: ATLmcgriff | March 05, 2009 at 05:33 PM
Don't worry, I didn't miss the point guys. I just used his career stats because they proved my point better. Pedro might have struggled in the first inning last year, but he pretty much struggled all around last year because he wasn't healthy.
My point was that I hate when people make claims like "Pedro always struggles in the first inning" just because it seems that way. I just wanted to disprove that.
Posted by: Jeff Moore | March 05, 2009 at 08:40 PM
Signing Reyes virtually eliminates any remaining financial flexibility the team has until at least midway through the season, according to an organizational source.
Intrigue over approaching former Cy Young Award winner Pedro Martinez as a potential closer will go no farther. The club now views projected set-up man Ryan Franklin as its alternative to Chris Perez and Jason Motte should the younger pitchers not assert themselves this spring.
http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/sports/stories.nsf/cardinals/story/120EB5E7F1A535C3862575710010E309?OpenDocument
Posted by: Cardsfan387 | March 06, 2009 at 12:28 AM
Pedro is a broken down old man who wouldn't last a week as a closer before he got injured. Pedro can spout off all he wants about how good he is and how much he has left in the tank. The fact remains that he is only a shell of his former self and the only productive thing in his arsenal is his enormous ego!
Posted by: Catman | March 10, 2009 at 10:48 AM