Red Sox Shoot Down Delcarmen/Johnson Swap

Send Nick the stick to the Mets for Sean green and a bag of balls we won't turn that down I promise ya!

Not a problem at all! I appreciate the feedback. Thanks Jay.

I don't think would have been a bad deal for the Sox especially since Masterson is now back in the pen. Perhaps they have intentions of dealing Masterson later this season.

I may be blinded as a Sox fan when it comes to Masterson (you DO NOT trade young sinkerballers who have success), but I know I am blinded when it comes to Delcarmen. He grew up in Hyde Park, in my neighborhood. I heard his name growing up playing baseball, as he was only ever a year or so ahead of me and was loosely in my sisters' social circles. This is a hometown kid who can throw heat and has nasty stuff. Yes, he struggles with his command at times. But right now, he gets guys out more often than not and is still cost controlled. Why move him in a deal for anything less than a marquee slugger? Nick Johnson And His DL Entries are not a good idea (and an even worse band name). Sure, he'll give us a .400 OBP when healthy. But how often is he going to be healthy? I'd rather stick with the deepest bullpen in baseball right now.

I don't see what's so special with Declarmen. I understand why Kelric likes him. He's a middle relief pitcher with a good heater but nothing special.

Delcarmen is the Red Sox most likely trade chip. If you trade Delcarmen you need to get back a player of equal value, preferably a SS, C or young OF. You could also see a Delcarmen-Holliday/Cabrera swap at the deadline if the A's are out of it.

I think that the Nats should move Johnson sooner than later. The market has not really been made and Johnson's value and health are very good right now. The Nats can't afford to miss the market and end up dumping him for little at the deadline. So, if I were Rizzo, I would be taking the best deal on the table that is passable, if there are any, right now. And in the mean time I'd continue to keep Johnson in bubble-wrap at all times that he is not on the field, etc.

y not they have plenty of pitching and delcarmen isnt that great. papi isnt hitting so throw johnson in the cleanup spot and have youk hit third

If the Nats want to trade Johnson, they need to get rid of him ASAP. Johnson has a history of injury. He is having a great season so far, but the moment he gets injured his trade value falls through the floor. The Nats need to get rid of him now while the demand and Johnson's numbers are high.

"Delcarmen-Holliday"

I don't care if it's only a half season of matt holliday, but do you really think that's something, judging by his track record, that Billy Beane would even remotely consider? Teams will be chomping at the bit to outbid an offer of Delcarmen.

"WHY are people talking about this like Nick Johnson is GOOD?!"

Last two full season lines:
.289/.408/.479
.290/.428/.520

Granted, he has been injured a lot, but don't say he isn't worth anything. There is a possibility he won't get injured again this year. If he doesn't, he certainly has value. If a team like the Giants were to give up a B prospect, he would look damn good manning 1B for the rest of the season, were he to stay healthy.

"If a team like the Giants were to give up a B prospect, he would look damn good manning 1B for the rest of the season, were he to stay healthy."

I couldn't agree more and I think the Giants badly need to get this done. Then trade for Uggla which would completely revamp the middle of their lineup.

and I think it's hilarious how all these red sox fans are going bonkers over delcarmen. His value is extremely limited, and yes, he is good, but common holliday? Or even a hitter like holliday? I think delcarmen has the most value to the sox and therefore they should keep him.

The Red Sox failed rule number 1 of trading: ALWAYS trade RP for useful hitters. ALWAYS. No matter how good Manny Delcarmen may be, he's worth 1.5 wins above replacement at most over a season. That's it. Nick Johnson has been worth 1.2 so far this year and will end up above that. There's an injury risk, but his chance of a freak injury is way lower as a DH. Bad call by the Sox declining this deal, and worse call by the Nats even proposing it.

Waiting to trade Johnson is stupid. The man is a ticking time bomb. Either they haven't learned their lesson and truly think he can stay healthy for a year or they have replaced all his body parts with bionic parts already and there is nothing left to break. Strike while the iron is hot and trade him now while he has value.

IMHO Manny will go west, if anywhere for, say, a deal like
Delcarman, Lugo, Bailey, Penny and $$$ to the Padres for for Adrian Gonzalez and Brian Giles and Nick Hundley. Padres need help at SS, SP, RP and want to unload salary. Youk goes to 3rd, Lowell, Papi & Giles split DH duties, PH and spot start as circumstances warrant. Sox add punch to their bench, find a top flight 1st baseman and a young catcher with some potential offense.

Hawkny,

Why would SD trade for two contracts they cannot pay a AAA player who will be banished back to Pawtucket when Mark Kotsay returns and MDC. Now, I love the Sox and I do believe AG is available for the right price, but that price would have to include Buchholz or Bowden, and most likely both and some other top prospects. SD is in financial trouble they are not picking up two big contracts for spots they can fill with low price talent and they are not catching the Dodgers.

MDC makes the Sox bullpen very nice, pitching wins playoff games and Nick Johnson goes on the DL if he cuts himself shaving. This deal is never gonna happen.

"Delcarman, Lugo, Bailey, Penny and $$$ to the Padres for for Adrian Gonzalez and Brian Giles and Nick Hundley"

Laughable. All teams' fans propose ridiculous trade scenarios, but Sox fans are the worst. You get 3 extremely useful players, they get 3 garbage players and 1 above average reliever. Get real...

IMHO Manny will go west, if anywhere for, say, a deal like
Delcarman, Lugo, Bailey, Penny and $$$ to the Padres for for Adrian Gonzalez and Brian Giles and Nick Hundley. Padres need help at SS, SP, RP and want to unload salary. Youk goes to 3rd, Lowell, Papi & Giles split DH duties, PH and spot start as circumstances warrant. Sox add punch to their bench, find a top flight 1st baseman and a young catcher with some potential offense.

Posted by: hawkny | May 25, 2009 at 12:42 PM

ok buddy,

1st thing wrong here is that SD is trying to reduce payrole. Lugo makes pretty close to what Giles makes. And Lugo sucks ass. But I think he would do allot better on a small market teams. Allot less preasure. Not to mention Giles has a no-trade clause and VETO'd a trade to the Sox last AUG. and why would SD want a guy like Bailey when they have a top 5 1st base prospect coming up? And Penny wouldn't help SD out very much. If he gets traded it will be to a team thats makeing a push for the playoffs. I think that Gonzo would be a great fit for Boston and Hundley may draw some interest from Theo. But it would cost allot more the MDC and Bailey. I think it would have to start off with Masterson/ Lowerie or Bowden or Bard then a couple of other Mid- low level prospects to make a Gonzo Based deal go through.

As for the MDC/Johnson trade I am so happy that the Sox Shot that down. MDC is under team control for years to come and Johnson is an injury prone rental player. Although Johnson is playing very well thus far this year he is probably going to cool right down.. I think that Someone like Dunn would be a much better fit for Boston. And I think if the Nats were to deal Dunn now while his bat is hot they could get allot more in-return then if they hold off. Pluss it will allow them to clear money for there #1 pick.

The Giants could get Johnson for pretty much any decent reliever in their system.

The Bosox said no to Delcarmen because 1. They dont really need Johnson that badly and 2. Delcarmen is a home town fan favourite.

If Delcarmen was on the Giants I would say it would have been a go forsure but he's not. The Giants would only have to offer up a young major league reliever or a near ready prospect to get Johnson. Matos maybe.

If I was Delcarmen I would be thankful I wasnt traded to the Nats but at the same time, if he had been traded there he likely would have been put in a closer role eventually and in my opinion, he could have a great career as a closer but he will NEVER have that chance in Boston.

Well, guys, what one sees depends upon where one sits.
You may very well be right that my trade proposal is ridiculous, by whichever criteria you chose to use. From my point of view, if the Sox are to make a trade of any significance mid-season it will be with a west coast team in the NL. When Glavine comes on board, one of the Sox 7 starters is going to have to go. My guess, Penny, who, if healthy, can be a #2/3 starter elsewhere. When Lowerie comes back either Green or Lugo have to go. My choice, Lugo. If the Sox were to acquire Gonzalez, Bailey would fill the role of backup for Kyle Blanks, if he doesn't shoot any. He might even start until Blanks is ready. As for Giles, for reasons on the field, and off the field, he does not want to be in California much longer (joint property state). New owner, Moorad ($40M salary cap) may have a hand in this too. If the Sox sweeten the pot enough with cash to offset Lugo,who is owed about $13M over the next 18 months this trade can happen as it boils down to Manny for Hundley when all is said and done, money considerations on both sides aside.

"When Glavine comes on board, one of the Sox 7 starters is going to have to go."

Temporarily putting aside the fact that you have proposed a trade in which Adrian Gonzalez is dealt to the Red Sox and does not bring back a single prospect, let alone a prospect package, it is difficult to take you seriously when your finger is so far from the pulse that you think Tom Glavine will be joining the Red Sox.

I think Hawkny meant Smoltz.Last year they were both on the Braves.

Apparently some posters on this thread do not read the Globe...
http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2009/05/26/no_hurry_to_flip_him_but_penny_has_value/?page=1

Penny was a 16 game winner in both 2006 and 2007. In his mosty recent outings he has looked much sharper than early on. Please note the "paunch". It is shrinking as he pitches himself into shape. In San Diego, Penny could be the #3 starter, easily...