Pirates, Nats Agree To Multi-Player Trade

Are the Pirates serious?

The Pirates should jump at this deal... Morgan turns 29 this week, and his upside is Juan Pierre-lite.

He's got zero power, is a surprisingly terrible base-stealer for how fast he is, and doesn't he have an awful arm in the field as well?

Why wouldn't they be serious?

Make it happen, Neal! Milledge is already an upgrade over Nyjer - and he's 5 years younger. He still has that potential to be close to a McCutchen type as well. Nothing to lose in this deal.

Do the Pirates even care about their fans?

The Pirates are actually dealing with a team worse than them for a change, make them pay. We don't need another team's junk. I don't think Morgan is some amazing player or anything, but he's been a big help this season and to swap him for some undeserving turd would be silly. Get something else in the deal.

Seriously? Milledge hasn't proven anything in his first 3 years. Morgan already has this year...

Morgan career UZR/150 OF: +26
Millege career UZR/150 OF: -15

Granted, that is skewed by Milledge playing more CF, but still, Fangraphs has Morgan at 1.9 wins above replacement level, worth already 8.7MM, and the season isn't half over. Huntington must be channeling Dave Littlefield on this one

UZR=Overrated stat

Morgan is a bum who cant keep his mind on the game. Always talking to the crowd and that includes btween pitches.

Not that I want to poop on the parade, but for all of the people saying that Lastings has the "potential to be a star/all-star/etc.," how do you explain that he's only hit .265 for his career and has had numerous attitude issues since his debut in 2006? I am certainly not willing to call him a bust and do not agree with this potential deal at all, but it doesn't logically make sense to conclude that he "has the potential to be a star" when the best he has been able to offer has been spotty production?

Well, the worst that could happen is that Milledge does an Elijah Dukes impersonation and trashes the club's reputation by having lots of illegitimate children and then threatening their mothers at their work- and then is arrested like Michael Vick on dog fighting shortly after being signed to a 5 year guaranteed contract after 2 months of breakout play in the big leagues. Never know, character issues can sometimes be the worst.

With that said, that worst case scenario is pretty unlikely so I think the Pirates should go for it. It honestly doesn't matter if Morgan is better than Milledge right now or even next year. They need to increase the expected quality of their club for 3 years from now, and Milledge is a lot more likely to be an important piece then.

On a side note, they should also see if SF wants Adam LaRoche and fish for some pitching. While it may not be fun to have a fire sale, teams that do it right do okay (see: Marlins).

Not that I want to poop on the parade, but for all of the people saying that Lastings has the "potential to be a star/all-star/etc.," how do you explain that he's only hit .265 for his career and has had numerous attitude issues since his debut in 2006? I am certainly not willing to call him a bust and do not agree with this potential deal at all, but it doesn't logically make sense to conclude that he "has the potential to be a star" when the best he has been able to offer has been spotty production?

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Well, I think that's kinda what the word "potential" means.

Draw a line. Put Nyjer Morgan's name on one side and Andrew McCutchen's name on the other side.

Milledge is somewhere in the middle on that line, closer to Nyjer right now. He has the potential to move further down the line closer to McCutchen.

If he never moves along that line at all, he's still better and younger Morgan...and about the same price.

It's a no-brainer. Just wish they could package Snell in the deal as well, and get another prospect back in return.

I personally like Morgan and i'm a Reds fan. Early in the year i had seats in left field at Great American Ball Park. Morgan was talking to us, making jokes and had a great game. Jerry Hairston Jr. was in left for the Reds and he wouldn't even look at us and he had an 0-4 day. Pittsburgh is hesitant to trade him because he is a fan favorite.

"Morgan is a bum who cant keep his mind on the game. Always talking to the crowd and that includes btween pitches."

I second that. Saw him in Chicago against the sox/cubs and both times he was more interested in messing around with the crowd behind LF than he was being prepared defensively. Pretty sure he's turned around joking frequently when the pitch is coming to the plate.

bbxxj: I don't Theo is looking to acquire that much salary or give up that many prospects. I'm sure he, like most of us, is more than happy to stick with Nick Green right now so we don't NEED Wilson.

Milledge is a bum trouble maker while Nyger Morgan/Tony Plush isnt a superstar hes a has fun playing and has a great attitude

you said it yourself morneauvp: "coming into '09"

haven't the pirates already made the same mistake of judging players based on PAST performance enough?!?

maybe they should go after mike hampton and tom glavine as well lol

Milledge has tons of potential alright and straight up these may seem like a steal for the Pirates, BUT Milledge has a torrible sense of entitlement and believes he is MLB ready without having to put in any of the work. If the Nats can get a bag of balls for him so be it. Goodbye Lastings. Sorry it didn't last, but I'm not surprised...

Newsflash for the Pies, Milledge is a bust... Maybe the trade makes sense for the Pies if they think Milledge has even the slightest chance of salvaging his career, because Margan at his age has zero upside and and is just a 270-280 hitter at best...

Whodey1010- You, sir, are wrong. they really dont care about fan favorites. Nate McClouth was a fan favorite, and they traded him away with no hesitation. Jason Bay was a fan favorite, but he now wears a red uniform. Theyve been trying to trade away everybodys favorite jack wilson for years, but have no luck cause hes a cancer in the locker room.

Personally, i would love if Tony Plush gets traded. his numbers are way overinflated. hes a sub-par outfielder who wouldnt cut it in a real teams triple-A team

Bad deal for the Nats. Massive sell-low on both Milledge and Hanrahan.

UZR and UZR/150 are not significant over this small of a sample size (less than half a season)

Not only that, comparing CF UZR to LF UZR is utterly worthless. Apples and oranges

I agree that it's a good gamble for the Pirates

Good day for Huntington and the Pirates.

Hanrahan has been awful this year, and hasn't truly been that great at any point. I am willing to go with Mike Rizzo here, see some of Jim Bowden's work undone.

Does anyone know what's wrong with Hanrahan this year? I know last year he was solid, maybe he got overworked?

I was looking at his stats, and I didn't think he was THIS bad. This month, he's given up 22 hits and 14 runs in just 9 innings. The wheels completely fell off.

is that trade official now? the morgan one?

Good deal for the Buccos.

Wow.. I really, really hope at least Hanrahan gets straightened out. Who is the Bucs pitching coach? Andrews? Maybe he can get him squared away, cause Milledge is a lost cause.

Morgan seems to be a very popular player in Pittsburgh! If I'm a good team, I'd take players who are productive now and can play a role like Morgan. He's a good 4th OF'er on a good team....

But if I'm the Pirates, Morgan just doesn't add up to much in the end. Take a chance on getting a great player instead of settling for a safe, but essentially replaceable player. Milledge may never mature into a great player, but at least he has a chance to be one. The same can't be said for Morgan.

"We won the Yankee deal, the Nady and Marte one."

Jose Tabata and his sub 700 OPS thanks you for your support from AA.

The truth is with Nady's injury and it being too soon to write off Tabata, you can't really say that deal has been won or lost by either team yet.

"Who is the Bucs pitching coach? Andrews?"

It's actually Joe Kerrigan. He's done absolute wonders with Zach Duke and Paul Maholm.

Perhaps Milledge benefits from being around solid characters and hard workers like McCutcheon? A guy that is closer to his age, yet has already had some success in the majors. Milledge's got to know this might be his last chance. It can work both ways.

I think Huntington is doing an outstanding job. Of course, Littlefield set the bar pretty low.

I like this move for Pittsburgh.. they get a guy who has solid potential if he could get himself righted (Milledge) and hes much younger than Morgan.. not to mention Morgan, at best, is just a top of the order guy with no power at all.. Andrew McCutchen already supplies that, theres no need for 2 outfielders that are going to be top of the order guys with no power.. Hanrahan has a nice live arm but has really failed to put himself together.. who knows, maybe a new pitching coach will help?

When ever the worst team in baseball is willing to GIVE YOU a 25 year old w/ potential be very weary...lol. He might be the MLB version of J.R Rider (pardon the NBA reference).

As a Nats fan, I'm sold on this deal. Milledge doesn't have the glove for center and has never proven he has the bat for a corner. Hanrahan was solid for stretches last season (his first in the bullpen) but he's getting rocked this year. He's never had any real command and many have questioned his make up...I'm surprised anyone wanted to give him a spot on a roster, honestly.

I find it sad that since MLBTR blew up, the average intelligence level of the readers here has been going down fast. MorneauVP seems to be one of very few with a clue here. This is a NO BRAINER for the Bucs. I love this move for them. Milledge needs at bats. The Pirates can give him at bats.

Pirates fans confuse me... though I wouldn't be thrilled to see Joel Hanrahan coming my way either. Still, opposing hitters have a .226 BABIP against Burnett. How can anyone expect his success to continue?

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I don't see many Pirate fans here complaining about the deal - we all seem to be extremely happy about it.

Most of the people complaining seem to be Yankee fans.

Good deal for both sides in my opinion.

Sad, also, how the only people who have a clue are those who agree with you. I don't think this deal makes sense for the Nats, but I think the points in favor are well made.

The Nats have lost patience with Milledge, and are ready to cut ties. Hanrahan has been absolutely awful this year, and since he is out of options they can't send him down. However, they also don't want to keep him with the big team and limit him to blowout wins and losses. Despite the awful record, many games are actually close. If they do that, they are reducing their bullpen staff by one.

However, I still think Milledge has upside, and I think that if they let him play for a year in Triple A, his value goes up. Also, trading one outfielder not on the 25-man for another who is further crams the already overcrowded outfield situation. Unless they are going to DFA Kearns (which they should do) and move Nick Johnson (that would put Dunn at first), this is a silly move.

People have to stop kidding themselves on Morgan.

He is a 29 year old with a career .286/.376/.376 line. It is perfectly league average (100 OPS+) so it is not that bad looking. Well, until you see the .342 BAbip. Adjust his career line to a normalized .300 BAbip and what do you get? You get 19 fewer hits. And even if they somehow are all singles, you are still left with a line of .251/.320/.341.

A 29 year old, someone who is in his physical peak year period, who posts as .251/.320/.341 is not someone you worry about losing! That production can be replaced by any single player you call up from the minors. When you factor his inability to hit left handed pitching at all and his extremely poor SB ratio for a supposedly fast player, you have the prototypical scrub fillin – nothing more.

Most of these type players get traded for another, similar, fill-in that happens to play a different position, or a PTBNL that ends up being minor league filler. To get a 24 year old with real upside is something you have to jump at. And if you just decide you miss Morgan that much, there is a strong possibility you will be able to sign him as a minor league FA at the end of the season.

@Yanksfansince78
The pirates gave up 3 of their top 15 prospects (Tabata, Ohlendorf, Mccutchen) plus Jeff Kasrstens. They also lost Latroy Hawkins when they designated him for assignment and was claimed by Houston(look at what he's doing now).

The Yankees got Xavier Nady who dropped .25 points in batting average and .42 points in OPS, while playing mediocre defense for the Yankees after the trade. As a Yankee Nady hit .267 with a .794 OPS. Not exactly what the Yankees expected after his OPS was over .900. He was worth .8 wins for the Yankees that year and has been worth -0.1 wins this year equaling .7 WAR overall. Nady is a free agent after this season. I can't see the Yankees bringing him back after his second tommy john surgery.

Marte on the other hand was worth .5 runs as a Yankee last year and has been worth -0.3 this year, .2 combined. The Yankees, for some crazy reason, decided to give Marte a 3 year $12M deal with a 4th year club option with a $.25M buyout. I for one think it will be extremely hard for Marte to ever be worth his $4M a year contract.

Did the Pirates get a ton in return for the two? Not necessarily, but they did get prospects who can potentially be useful role players in the future. And should no doubt accumulate more WAR than Nady and Marte combined will.

" but he doesn't seem to have the head for baseball."

That is what both the Mets and Nats have already figured out, yet some posters here have not. I guess the Bucs are the latest sucker for this head case.

after watching hanrahan all season i hope a change of scenery helps cause he's completly lost it as faras nats fans are concerned... his command and control have been dreadfull at best sad thing is u would think being john lannans rommate and all john would rub off on him a little bit.

as for milledge he hasnt lived up to expectations and performed poorly to start the season and was sent down now to AAA...

heres where it gets interesting for a guy who is known to be somewhat of a headcase and a underachiver you would think he would keep his mouth shut and prove people wrong by hitting in AAA but instead he go's out and critises the GM and FO and says he might not do baseball anymore

i wish him the best but good ridance the one thing i complement the nationals on since moving to DC is they consistently will not put up with outspoken mel-contents

we got rid of ohka for refusing to come out of a ballgame and critizing the coach we released odalis perez for refusing to report cause he didnt like the contract he signed a month prior how's it goin findin work perez?

now milledge appears to be following in there footsteps.

on a seperate but related note...i know some consider dukes a headcase he really has been pretty chill since coming to the nats so you cant really say he's a headcase atleast not for us

i think some people here are confused. no one is claiming that morgan is a great player or will be terribly missed. it's just that a lot of people don't have faith that milledge will bounce back. don't you find it a little strange that a, once considered, top prospect is being shipped around like a box of balls. his attitude is exactly the opposite of what a supposed rebuilding team needs.

I don't see how this is bad for either team.

I'm a Nationals fan and am happy to see Milledge go. He just doesn't fit here. We already have multiple corner outfielders who can't catch the ball but put up better numbers than him. He also, upon being demoted, told the media that he wasn't going to listen to the coaching staff and that he was going to get back to playing the game his way. Really classy guy there. He still does have that ever elusive potential. He has some pop and speed. If he materializes he is probably a mid to upper teens in the homeruns and could steal close to 30 bases, not sure he will ever get there though.

I'm not all that thrilled about Nyjer Morgan, but we are a team that is in dire need of better defense and some team speed, as well as a left handed bat off the bench. I agree people are rating him too highly but he at least fills those criterias. He might not be the ideal choice but it is something at least.

As for Hanrahan, even when he was pitching "well" last year, he was still lacking control. He seems like a good team player and he takes the blame when he pitches poorly. He has a good fastball but uses the slider too much. If he can get his head right he will be an average middle reliever but I think he needs a new scene.

I know very little about Burnett but for a team that is relying on Julian Tavarez, Ron VIllone and Jesus Colome to get outs he can't be that much worse and he is definitely younger.

For now, this just looks like 2 struggling franchises trying to switch some things around. Couldn't hurt for either of them to try new people.

"So they traded away an OF prospect who is hitting .250 in AAA and a relief pitcher who has an ERA of 7.71 and a WHIP of almost 2."

Didnt Milledge break his finger just days into his demotion? And although that pitcher isnt doing well right now and has a 7.71 era and WHIP of almost 2, what exactly do you think you are bringing in for him? Compare the two over their careers

5.30 ERA, 82 ERA+, 168 IP, 1.643 WHIP, 9.8 H/9, 5.0 BB/9, 9.2 K/9, 1.82 K/BB
.335 BAbip for Hanrahan

4.54 ERA, 93 ERA+, 160 IP, 1.506 WHIP, 9.2 H/9, 4.3 BB/9, 5.3 K/9, 1.23 K/BB
.294 BAbip for Burnett

Pitchers look pretty much like a wash to me.

Hanrahan + Milledge >>> Burnett + Morgan, every day of the week. But that is really only because Morgan has no business near a ML field unless as an absolute emergency fill-in, and Milledge does hold impressive talents that the Nationals couldn’t take advantage of because of their glut of outfielders. The Nats made their mistake when they sent him down after a measly week to start the season. Sending him down destroyed all value he had on the market since he broke his finger, and apparently has turned most of the world against him despite their not realizing, or taking into account, the full situation. Washinton is losing this deal, big time, but if they created a problem with Lastings because of their illogical kneejerk reaction to start the season, then maybe they deserve to make a stupid move like this.

"On the other hand, as much as you want to bag on Morgan, he is a very good ball player and plays within the team first concept."

What exactly does he do good? Getting lucky with the bat isnt good, and his normalized line is .251/.320/.341. He cant hit left handed pitching to save his life. He holds a poor stole base percentage, so you dont want him running in key situations. He can field some, but that would hardly make him a "very good ball player" - it would only make him like the hundreds of other minor leaguers that can manage one small aspect of the job enough to maybe get a callup in a pinch.

@Yanksfansince78
The pirates gave up 3 of their top 15 prospects (Tabata, Ohlendorf, Mccutchen) plus Jeff Kasrstens. They also lost Latroy Hawkins when they designated him for assignment and was claimed by Houston(look at what he's doing now).

The Yankees got Xavier Nady who dropped .25 points in batting average and .42 points in OPS, while playing mediocre defense for the Yankees after the trade. As a Yankee Nady hit .267 with a .794 OPS. Not exactly what the Yankees expected after his OPS was over .900. He was worth .8 wins for the Yankees that year and has been worth -0.1 wins this year equaling .7 WAR overall. Nady is a free agent after this season. I can't see the Yankees bringing him back after his second tommy john surgery.
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See....this where "stat" geeks need to grasp reality and the motivation for the Nady trade. To say that we gave up 3 of our top prospects mean ZIPPO. Other than Tabata, neither of the other two were considered mlb caliber pitchers, and certainly not guys that were going to be cracking the starting rotation.

In any trade you ask "why was this team (Yankees) motivated to make the trade? Well as of July 26th, the day the trade was made , the Yanks were 3 games out of 1st and Matsui was on the DL and Posada who wasn't recovering from his inury was about to be put on the 60 day DL with season ending shoulder surgery. Other than Arod the Yanks had Jeter and Melky giving us any power from the right side (12 hrs total thru July). Nady was brought to NY to give us a power righty bat behind Arod in the line up. He did that by giving us 12 hrs and 40 rbi. His power numbers were 2nd only to Arod. So while we didn't make the playoffs and have had little from him in 2009, he served his purpose, as did Marte, for the 2008 season and kept our hopes alive in trying to make the playoffs. And we did so w/o giving up much that fit into our long term plans, w/ the exception of Tabata. We may or mar not end up regreting making him part of the deal.

The nats could have gotten a way better trade out of this

Although it was a good move to get rid of one of the bad personalities on their team

Not a bad deal

"Wow. The first sign of life from the Nationals front office. The first good move that I've seen from them.

The Pirates got absolutely trashed in this."

Is that sarcasm or blind homerism?

Ok..no problem. Not my team..just saying. Only here is potential valued over results. Knock Morgan all you want but in 3 different stints in the majors totaling 545 at bats he has a career line of .286/.351. In the minors a career line of .294/.370. Enthusiastic play and good defense for potential and a bad attitude. People wonder why he's just now getting play at age 29 but keep in mind, until recently he had Jason Bay, Xavier Nady, Nate McClouth, Jose Bautista and Andrew McCutchen ahead of him. It's not like he didn't put up good numbers in the minors or in his callups in 2007 or 2008.