Pirates, Red Sox Discussed Jack Wilson

Am I the only Sox fan content with Green? Wilson doesn't seem like much of an improvement. Plus if they go out and get Wilson, they'll have a logjam at SS when Lowrie comes back.

I didn't look at fielding, though. Anyone know if the Sox would be better defensively with Wilson?

I don't understand the Pirates when it comes to Jack Wilson. He's a career 269/311/376 hitter. He has good defense but that's it. He's also making $7.25M which is way too much for a glove. They should take anything to get rid of him because he's not that good, especially for his price tag.

How ironic. The Pirates gave away McClouth, Nagy, Marte, even Bay, yet expect to get something back in return for Jack Wilson?

With Lowrie due back in a couple of weeks and his glove the equal, plus his bat superior (plus a switch hitter) they can keep Wilson and try to hawk him off on the Mets, or someone else.

"How ironic. The Pirates gave away McClouth, Nagy, Marte, even Bay, yet expect to get something back in return for Jack Wilson?

With Lowrie due back in a couple of weeks and his glove the equal, plus his bat superior (plus a switch hitter) they can keep Wilson and try to hawk him off on the Mets, or someone else."

Define 'gave away'? The landed solid hauls of back-end MLB talent and solid minor league prospects for their 'give aways'. Yeah, no one's giving away a Phil Hughes or Jason Heyward or Clay Buchholz, but you have to give to get, and they ain't giving the Sox what they want because they're the Sox.

I love how Jed Lowrie is considered a savior, lol, he of the 268 career ABs (and a .245/.327/.378 line in those ABs).

"Just how well talent wise has the Bay and Marte/Nagy deal looked so far? LaRoche, Hansen, Moss have done little and Bryan Morris has made 2 starts in 2009 in A Ball. They got 2 basically #4-5 starters on a poor staff in Ohlendorf and Karstens, along with McCutchen who will not be lighting any fires and the single top guy Tabata."

1) You realize the guy's name is Nady, right? Not Nagy?

2) As I own LaRoche in one of my DEEP keeper leagues, you might want to take a deeper look at him - he put up a .869 OPS in May, and there's signs he could be approaching a breakout. The power numbers he showed in the minors still aren't there, he's still only 25.

3) I think people truly underestimate a) exactly how bad the Pirates minor league system that Huntington inherited was, and b) how difficult it is for teams to trade even back-end pitching depth. Teams aren't just giving away potential #3, #4, even #5 pitchers.

With only a couple years being exceptions, Wilson has always been a plus defender. so far this year he's got a 6.5 UZR, which is quite good. But his hitting's been so bad he's still only been worth 0.8 Wins Above replacement in 2009.

And Lowrie's no slouch with the glove. In 49 games at SS in 2008 Lowrie had a 5.9 UZR. Lowrie's bat hasn't been terrific, but it's been less bad than Wilson's.

In fact, in limited time in 2008 (81 G, 306 PA) Lowrie was worth 1.9 WAR. In slightly more time (87 G, 330 PA) Wilson was only worth 1.6 WAR. And Wilson has about $5m coming to him, and then he's a free agent: the Red Sox control Lowrie for 4-5 more seasons.

Thank you V for saving me all that typing. Very well put on the Nady/Bay return.

Thank you V for saving me all that typing. Very well put on the Nady/Bay return.

"Jack Wilson to the Red Sox makes sense for both clubs - but only as a salary dump. If the Pirates ask for anything beyond a second tier prospect in exchange, then forget it."

The Pirates do not have to "dump" salary this year. And lets face it, it's not like the Bucs are approaching these teams to try and trade Wilson.

"Can someone explain to me why they would even want Jack Wilson?"

I remember last year when people were saying the same thing about Bay. That he was breaking down, that he wouldn't make that make that much of a difference and that he had already peaked. Hows that working out now? Honestly I would rather the Bucs sign Wilson to an affordable extention to stay in Pit. Yes, he is that valuable to the defense...

V -

The last 150 or so of Lowrie AB's have come w/ a bum wrist. Please do some homework on a player before barfing out career batting numbers.

He was as valuable as any Sox player in '08 in the first 40 games he played before fracturing his wrist and his numbers started to decline.

Lowrie projects to be a top 10 MLB SS when fully healthy, this accounting for both offensive and defensive skills. He's a white Yunel Escobar w/ a solid eye and strong gap power.

Yes, I know he hasn't been healthy... hence the Wilson rumors... but do some freakin homework before barfing out career avg/obp/slg.

It makes you look stupid.

Lowrie 2008

1st Half - .277/.308/.426
2nd Half - .254/.345/.394

In 102 August ABs, he hit .284/.353/.490

Doesn't look like his wrist was bothering him that much.

"Lowrie projects to be a top 10 MLB SS when fully healthy, this accounting for both offensive and defensive skills. He's a white Yunel Escobar w/ a solid eye and strong gap power."

HAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA.

Red Sox homers are funny.

V -

Again, you're posts make you look dumb.

Did I say "stud"?

I said top 10 SS based on O and D.

He had a career .824 OPS in AAA... very good for a player who is already good defensively...

The nerbster -

Read the scouting report on the guy. I am not pulling these projections out of thin air.

Outstanding plate discipline, gap power w/ 10-15 HR potential, and solid defense with average to plus range.

Don't be like V and look at the month of August 2008 to justify a moronic post.

To follow up on my own comment- I'd like to add that insofar as Lugo does more HARM to the team than GOOD, I'd take just about anybody at this point for a reasonable price. That includes Wilson.

This is the one position where I'd say the team is "desperate" for a decent player. If Lugo is on the field, it will hurt the team.

Lowrie is an intelligent shortstop with a decent glove and average range. His arm is strong but he needs to work on his throwing accuracy. Initially, Lowrie was slated for a possible move back to 2B (where he played in college) because of sub-par defensive projections. However, his defense has really improved during his time in the Sox system, and he's proving that he can play an adequate SS or 3B in the majors. Above average speed on the basepaths. He demonstrated plus power for a middle infielder in college, but at this point he looks to have doubles power and not a lot of home run pop. Hits for average very well, and equally from both sides of the plate. Outstanding plate discipline, in true Red Sox form his best attribute may be his ability to work pitchers for good at bats. Fundamental and athletic.

Thats his actual scouting report. He will be a great SS. Atleast good for a top 10 defensive SS and a .250-.275 AVG.

Stellar: While he did good with the wrist last year (and we were all amazed when we learned he was playing the whole time with a fractured wrist), you need to look at his stats from this year to see that it didn't always work out for him. Though minuscule, here are his 2009 stats:

5 G, 20 AB, 8 K, 2 BB, 1H, .056 AVG

Not that great.. He should rebound fine though. He won't be the best SS in the league, but he will do a very good job.

" I pointed out that he actually did better with the hurt wrist."

If I wasn't lazy, would run down Lowrie's numbers batting left handed towards the end of last year, his batting left handed was what was affected most by his wrist, not right handed and his doubles power was sapped entirely by the injury eventually.

Once again, if Lowrie just hits .250-.260 and can maintain a .310-.330 OPS and carry a solid glove for the next 2-3 years I will be very happy.

Top 10 SS in MLB is certainly not Lowrie, maybe some off the wall stat from last year from his not committing any errors could be "mangled" into showing him as such, but there is no way that he is. The Sox are just looking for a solid glove that will not cost a fortune at this point.

The Pirates are genuinely known as being a "farm" team for the rest of the majors in recent years, trading away talent once they develop, so it does not come as a surprise that Wilson will soon be wearing another uniform either in Boston or anywhere else...sure he don't swing the bat well, but the defense is among the best in the league..Wouldn't be surprised to see Ryan Doumit on the trade block in the next year, since he is developing into a great young hitter--as long as he stays healthy....