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« Gammons On International Free Agents | Main | Odds And Ends: Moneyball, Draft Signings, Halladay »
Phils In "Serious Talks" With Pedro; No Deal Yet
7:56pm: Stark is now reporting that Pedro has changed his mind and will throw for the Phillies a second time on Friday at 1pm.
7:22pm: A source has told Jayson Stark that the Phillies have requested to see Pedro throw a second time "to see how his arm responds," but that Pedro has refused. The source told Stark that Pedro feels the Phillies "have enough information to make a decision from his simulated game Tuesday and shouldn't need him to throw again."
7:18pm: Here is Todd Zolecki's summary of the Pedro situation.
5:45pm: The AP has some quotes from Pedro and Amaro. Pedro says this is the best he has felt "for some time." Amaro reiterated that Pedro has not been signed and that Pedro is "not in town."
5:30pm: Jon Heyman spoke with Pedro's agent who says Pedro will make a decision by Sunday.
5:29pm: Nobody has addressed this yet, but if the $4MM figure is accurate, it would most certainly have to be prorated, which would mean the Phillies would only pay Pedro about $2MM for the remainder of the season.
5:12pm: Zolecki is now reporting that Pedro has informed the AP that his agent "is negotiating" with the Phillies.
4:57pm: Amaro told Zolecki the Phillies haven't signed Pedro, but wouldn't say whether they had reached an agreement or if Pedro had a physical scheduled.
4:49pm: Jon Heyman of SI.com reports that the Phils are in "pretty serious talks" with Pedro, but doesn't confirm the report below.
4:15pm: Phillies GM Ruben Amaro Jr. declined to comment on a report saying the Phillies signed Pedro Martinez, according to MLB.com's Todd Zolecki. The report from CandelaDeportiva.com says Pedro signed for $4MM after showing off a fastball between 88 and 91 mph and good secondary pitches.
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If the rumor is true, does that mean they don't have enough to go after Halladay?
Posted by: CubCrazy | July 09, 2009 at 04:21 PM
Amaro is thinking "Pedro? Who cares about Pedro? We can get Halladay!"
Posted by: icedrake523 | July 09, 2009 at 04:24 PM
One would have to imagine that the phillies aren't in the halladay sweepstakes anymore...
Posted by: A-Cal | July 09, 2009 at 04:24 PM
im not sure about that, a pro-rated salary of 4m is under less than 2m committed to pedro, and they'd still have to fit in at least like 22-23m for halladay until the end of 2010, so if they can't hit in halladay after adding 2m payroll, i dont think they ever could have
Posted by: pastlives | July 09, 2009 at 04:24 PM
"Pedro signed after showing off a fastball between 88 and 91 mph and good secondary pitches"
The Pedro that was throwing 86-88 his entire time with the Mets? Seems fishy to me.
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 09, 2009 at 04:25 PM
This really has no bearing on the Halladay situation at all.
Posted by: Shanghai Gumbo | July 09, 2009 at 04:28 PM
Maybe he is just finally healthy. He has had about a full year to get strong now.
Posted by: yanks09 | July 09, 2009 at 04:28 PM
This has absolutely nothing to do with Halladay. $2M for a big market team is nothing, especially if they were already seriously considering adding Halladay's ~$7M plus his 2010 money.
There's no connection.
Posted by: thephrontiersman | July 09, 2009 at 04:33 PM
this has absolutely no connection to the phillies aquiring another starter. They have been looking for a frontline pitcher all along, there is no way they believe pedro is their frontline starter no can they sell this to the fans. Possibly a replacement for happ?
Posted by: Chris | July 09, 2009 at 04:37 PM
cubcrazy, what are you referring to exactly? Enough what...money? prospects? That's a pretty vague question.
Posted by: kssj4 | July 09, 2009 at 04:38 PM
Doubt there close on Pedro, cause they'll acquire Halladay within a week.
Posted by: Braves for NL East!! | July 09, 2009 at 04:38 PM
haha .. pedro to phillies = good for rest of nl east.
Posted by: Baseball Nut | July 09, 2009 at 04:41 PM
I actually think this means they are trading for Halliday. Toronto wants Happ in the deal. Pedro is being signed as the 5th starter to take Happ's place.
Posted by: pyromantic | July 09, 2009 at 04:42 PM
Just to spite Omar Minaya, I hope Pedro goes to the Phillies and mauls down NL hitters for the next 3 months. He should have been resigned in New York and given a shot to redeem himself for the big contract he signed in 2005 and the injuries and personal problems he suffered that prevented him from performing. Hell, the Mets should have been in on this now, considering that their rotation is being held up by glue and Johan Santana.
GO TIM REDDING!
Posted by: MattyMets | July 09, 2009 at 04:43 PM
I was just throwing it our there. Yes, it will take a lot of prospects to get Halladay and a lot of money to keep him with the team for more than 1 and a half years. I was just asking if acquiring Pedro would hurt or help the Halladay matter.
Posted by: CubCrazy | July 09, 2009 at 04:43 PM
If he's gotten back that wicked changeup, I would take him in a heartbeat. Hopefully he can hold up if they manage to take him.
Posted by: Giantsguy1987 | July 09, 2009 at 04:43 PM
Thank you for your insight pyromantic.
Posted by: CubCrazy | July 09, 2009 at 04:45 PM
Thank you for your insight pyromantic.
Posted by: CubCrazy | July 09, 2009 at 04:45 PM
I'm just saying that this certainly does not preclude them from trading for Halliday. They have been looking for a top of the rotation starter and Pedro is clearly bottom of the rotation. Do they math.
Posted by: pyromantic | July 09, 2009 at 04:48 PM
I think CubCrazy was seriously thanking you for your insight. I know the internet is full of terrible people but that was a legit compliment I think.
Posted by: Shanghai Gumbo | July 09, 2009 at 04:51 PM
@ pyromantic
I actually thought the same thing and if that is true, i could possible handle that!!!!
Hamels and Halladay equals best 1 2 punch in the nl playoffs, dang im gettin ahead of myself
Posted by: MADDOG123 | July 09, 2009 at 04:52 PM
"Just to spite Omar Minaya, I hope Pedro goes to the Phillies and mauls down NL hitters for the next 3 months. He should have been resigned in New York and given a shot to redeem himself for the big contract he signed in 2005 and the injuries and personal problems he suffered that prevented him from performing. Hell, the Mets should have been in on this now, considering that their rotation is being held up by glue and Johan Santana."
Pedro should have been willing to sign for the Mets much less than his asking price. He pitched 1.5 effective seasons and was garbage when he did pitch. If he was willing to accept league minimum and the Mets didn't want him, that is one thing. But I do not criticize the Mets for not signing a guy who wants too much and was a below replacement player with them.
Posted by: icedrake523 | July 09, 2009 at 04:52 PM
I think CubCrazy was seriously thanking you for your insight. I know the internet is full of terrible people but that was a legit compliment I think.
Posted by: Shanghai Gumbo | July 09, 2009 at 04:51 PM
Oh, now I feel like an ass. Well if that's true sorry for the snarky comment. Haha
Posted by: pyromantic | July 09, 2009 at 04:53 PM
@MADDOG123
Yeah, I think you are, but so am I. It is certainly nice to think about. I can definitely handle Pedro as this teams 5th starter if healthy.
Posted by: pyromantic | July 09, 2009 at 04:54 PM
A $4 million agreement +incentives is crazy for a guy who hasn't thrown a pitch to a MLB player in like two yrs is CRAZY!
Posted by: Braves for NL East!! | July 09, 2009 at 04:56 PM
"A $4 million agreement +incentives is crazy for a guy who hasn't thrown a pitch to a MLB player in like two yrs is CRAZY!"
He pitched last year, so it hasnt been "like two yrs" - try 3.3 months, that is all the ML time he has missed.
And we really have no clue about contract. He was asking for a 5million prorated, which would be about 2-2.5 million for the rest of the year.
Not saying signing Pedro for 2-2.5 million is smart, but your comment is the real "CRAZY" thing in this post.
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 09, 2009 at 05:05 PM
Why does Pedro owe anything to the Mets? Did he put a gun to their heads?
The Mets gave Pedro the 4 year deal he didn't hold them ransom. The only team that was even willing to offer him a 3 year deal were the Sox and that was basically to appease the fans. Pedro brought a lot of life back into the Mets organization....perhaps the Mets should be thanking him for providing some energy and fun into that clubhouse. He got legitimately hurt and couldn't pitch, it wasn't like he was Carl Pavano going on the DL because he was doing 120 mph in his Porcshe or opting for Tommy John when it wasn't necessary.
And its not like he held the Mets back with his contract. The Mets and Mets fans should be thankful for what Pedro gave to the organization.
Posted by: yanks09 | July 09, 2009 at 05:06 PM
maybe happ is needed in a halladay deal and phillies would ask jays to eat like 5 mil of halladay contract which would pay for pedro and if pedro perfroms well they get an ace in halladay if they can work out a deal they dont lose much from the backend of the pen by losing happ not saying this is why but itd make sense
Posted by: sprtsgy1989 | July 09, 2009 at 05:15 PM
Don't see any connection between Pedro and Happ. Pedro replaces Rodrigo Lopez, not Happ. If Happ goes to the Jays, then fine. But to say that they need Pedro to replace Happ who could go the Jays doesn't make sense (because if Happ went to the Jays, he of course would be replaced by Halladay).
Either way a great signing for the Phillies. He can't be worse than their other options at 5th starter. I don't think Carrasco is ready.
Posted by: bobo | July 09, 2009 at 05:26 PM
bobo, the idea is that, if the Phils keep Happ and acquire Halliday, Moyer becomes the 5th starter and they no longer have to worry about which minor leaguer of the week to use when that slot comes around (Halliday/Hamels/Blanton/Happ/Moyer)
But if they trade Happ to the Jays in the package that they acquire Halliday with, they'll need someone to be the fifth if they want to avoid the AAA pitcher carousel (i.e. Halliday/Hamels/Blanton/Moyer/Pedro vs. Halliday/Hamels/Blanton/Moyer/(minor leaguer))
Posted by: Shanghai Gumbo | July 09, 2009 at 05:33 PM
The last 14 posts were unneeded, Shanghai Gumbo.
Posted by: jdub | July 09, 2009 at 05:39 PM
Well I agree with Shanghai Gumbo, but not with his persistence. Haha
Posted by: pyromantic | July 09, 2009 at 05:41 PM
Uh, wow, I'm very sorry, I have no idea what the hell happened there.
Posted by: Shanghai Gumbo | July 09, 2009 at 05:43 PM
Ruben and Pedro are acting like 3rd grade coeds who are denying they like each other, but will eventually end up kissing each other on the playground.
Posted by: ARW | July 09, 2009 at 05:55 PM
It's all good. Haha.
Anyways, I'd rather have the Halladay/Hamels/Blanton/Moyer/Minor Leaguer rotation than the Halladay/Hamels/Blanton/Moyer/Pedro rotation. Pedro is a big risk, especially while giving him 4MM, even if it is indeed prorated.
Posted by: jdub | July 09, 2009 at 05:56 PM
I could see this being part of a major stabilization project for the rotation, which I think Manual/Amaro think will trickle down to the pen. And wasn't it rumored that the Jays had scouts at the game where Happ pitched the other night, and pitched well. I could see the Jays wanting at least one starter who could come in and pitch the day of the trade and maybe Happ could be their man.
Still my head is starting to spin.
If I were the Phils, I would want this all worked out sooner than later so we can get on with it.
Posted by: Chutley26 | July 09, 2009 at 05:57 PM
maybe happ is needed in a halladay deal and phillies would ask jays to eat like 5 mil of halladay contract which would pay for pedro and if pedro perfroms well they get an ace in halladay if they can work out a deal they dont lose much from the backend of the pen by losing happ not saying this is why but itd make sense
Posted by: sprtsgy1989 | July 09, 2009 at 05:15 PM "
PUNTUATION. Have you heard of it?
With Pedro and Happ, it would be incredible dumb to replace Happ with Pedro. I understand he'd be in a Halladay deal, but you would think that a deal where at least one starter in your rotation plus your whole farm is a bit much. Also, they still arent guarrenteed a playoff spot...
Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | July 09, 2009 at 06:07 PM
Toronto was indeed rumored to be scouting Happ's last start. Also keep in mind that Happ's best start this season was a 5-hit shutout against the Blue Jays.
That being said, I don't see the correlation between the potential Halladay deal and the potential Pedro signing. Even if both deals were to happen, which is highly unlikely, I don't think Pedro is a better option than any other option for the #5 starter (Lopez, Kendrick, Carrasco, Park, etc.).
Posted by: twc84 | July 09, 2009 at 06:24 PM
"PUNTUATION. Have you heard of it?"
It's kinda funny to point out the mistakes of ones punctuation when one misspells.
Posted by: start_wearing_purple | July 09, 2009 at 06:26 PM
Honestly, could you read it the first time? all i meant was a period or comma... anywhere..
Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | July 09, 2009 at 06:36 PM
I don't mind this move as insurance in a way. We are stockpiling mediocre arms for our big stretch run!
Yes, we could bring up Carrasco and yes, it's possible we may still trade for Halladay, but maybe Moyer will turn it around or Pedro will be better than everyone expects. By year's end the rotation could be Hamels-Blanton-Happ-Pedro/Moyer/Lopez/Bastardo/Carrasco/maybe even Park if things go horribly wrong...Quantity, not quality, right!
Posted by: carlos roo-iz | July 09, 2009 at 06:55 PM
"PUNTUATION. Have you heard of it?"
It's kinda funny to point out the mistakes of ones punctuation when one misspells.
Posted by: start_wearing_purple | July 09, 2009 at 06:26 PM
Actually, it would be "one's punctuation."
...but this is getting ridiculous.
Posted by: Jason F | July 09, 2009 at 06:59 PM
"Honestly, could you read it the first time?"
No I couldn't... but I also couldn't resist the irony.
"Yes, we could bring up Carrasco"
Right now the way Carrasco is pitching in AAA, he could easily get hammered in the bigs. Or for that matter will put up worse numbers than Pedro... add in Pedro's experience and it's not a bad move.
Posted by: start_wearing_purple | July 09, 2009 at 07:01 PM
"Right now the way Carrasco is pitching in AAA, he could easily get hammered in the bigs. Or for that matter will put up worse numbers than Pedro... add in Pedro's experience and it's not a bad move."
huh?
8.72 K/9, 3.09 BB/9, 2.82 K/BB, 0.84 HR/9, 1.41 WHIP, but .344 BAbip and corresponding 62.3% stranded. Overall, 3.70 FIP. That doesnt point to "easily get hammered", it points to unlucky, but solid otherwise.
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 09, 2009 at 07:07 PM
"7:22pm: A source has told Jayson Stark that the Phillies have requested to see Pedro throw a second time "to see how his arm responds," but that Pedro has refused."
Ok, I officially wish everyone would just forget him at this point.
You wont throw a second time for a team willing to give you like 2 million to play a game? Then I would have to say you are not too serious about playing and dont deserve the money.
Believe it or not Pedro, the world doesnt revolve around Pedro. And all the canceled and now refused throwing sessions might be getting you some press, but it is not going to end up being the positive kind. Time for you to do something with your life other then waste peoples time.
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 09, 2009 at 07:30 PM
I loved Pedro. He was my favorite pitcher. But he really needs to look in the mirror and realize who he is now. If he wants $5M, he should do whatever it takes like arrive early for workouts or throw a 2nd time.
Posted by: icedrake523 | July 09, 2009 at 07:37 PM
Haha. Pedro wants to pitch, Phils ask him to pitch, Pedro says no.
Whatever.
Posted by: JohnKruksWaistLine | July 09, 2009 at 07:41 PM
does he want to play? a second throwing sesion will be like 40 pitches and then you get 2M. Whats not to like...
Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | July 09, 2009 at 07:44 PM
does he want to play? a second throwing sesion will be like 40 pitches and then you get 2M. Whats not to like...
Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | July 09, 2009 at 07:44 PM
-----
I don't know-- with some of that two mill Pedro could pay someone to chew that pride he's swallowing whole, and not have to pound his chest acting like it doesn't hurt.
Posted by: JohnKruksWaistLine | July 09, 2009 at 07:51 PM
Its a shame because I don't think there is a bad guy on this team, bench pen or otherwise, who is unlikabble. I liked that they won last year but I also really liked how they won, with character. I agree that Pedro is being a little bratty about this. Seems like he's upset not getting his $5 mil for a few months and he's going to sulk.
What can you expect from a guy who threw an old man to ground?!
Posted by: Chutley26 | July 09, 2009 at 07:53 PM
Another update should be coming on this thread:
"Martinez has since agreed to work out again, at 1 p.m. Friday at the Phillies complex in the Dominican Republic, a source told ESPNdeportes.com. If it goes well, the source said, Martinez would travel to Philadelphia on Monday."
It is in the recently updated Jayson Stark article linked above.
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 09, 2009 at 07:53 PM
Any Jays fan, would you agree with this deal, to at least start:
Martin(our best pitching, although young. Been called by scouts as a righty Kershaw), McDonald, Elbert, DeWitt and/or a SS prospect(Dejesus most likely), Baez. 3 pitchers, who can go 1, 2, 3 in a few yrs, either a 2b/3b or a SS; possibly both, and a power 3B...
Posted by: lakersdodgersyankees4life | July 09, 2009 at 07:58 PM
SuzysMan,
If true, that is very good news. While none of us expect him to be a Savior, if he could be an upgrade to the way Moyer/Bastardo/Park have pitched in that 4/5 slot, I for one would be happy. Also, Pedro for all his ego concerns, has always appeared to be a great clubhouse guy.
Posted by: carlos roo-iz | July 09, 2009 at 08:02 PM
"Just to spite Omar Minaya, I hope Pedro goes to the Phillies and mauls down NL hitters"
If I were Omar, I would PAY Pedro to pitch for the Phillies. The Mets need all the help they can get right now.
Posted by: caseyB | July 09, 2009 at 08:11 PM
with the joe borowski episode, freddy garcia too they'd better make 100% sure he's healthy.
oh and the way moyer pitched tonight anyone could help.
someone does need to remind him if we do this deal that we don't do that chest-bump dance thing, LOL!
Posted by: philsWSchamps | July 09, 2009 at 08:59 PM
"Also, Pedro for all his ego concerns, has always appeared to be a great clubhouse guy."
Yeah, maybe you will get lucky and he will bring his midget!
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 09, 2009 at 11:03 PM
Yeah, maybe you will get lucky and he will bring his midget!
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 09, 2009 at 11:03 PM
He's got a midget?! Sign him now.
The Phils have been looking for a replacement clubhouse mascot since Elvis left town (Pat Burrell's bulldog)
Posted by: Muggi | July 10, 2009 at 02:46 AM
signing pedro could mean more that the phillies are serious players in the halladay sweepstakes more then them being out of it... having pedro would give them the option of trading happ, not that i think they should trade him but if thats someone toronto wants, then pull the trigger.
Posted by: zoltek | July 10, 2009 at 07:25 AM
I just don't get all these Halladay to the Phils rumors..Do you guys think he would approve a deal where he'd pitch in that ballpark 20x a year? I bet he doesnt get traded until the offseason so JP can unload a bad contract (Wells or Rios) with him. I dont think many teams can absorb Halladays and Wells contract mid season.
Posted by: EastCoastBias | July 10, 2009 at 07:27 AM
The Halladay to Phils rumor has been around for too long for it to just be a matter of Halladay saying no. The rumor wouldn't been squashed in a day if he didn't want to go. I hate to admit it, but there's a good chance he'll end up down the parkway, and as a Mets fan, I'll be watching reruns of The Simpsons.
Posted by: Paulio, Male Gigalo | July 10, 2009 at 08:35 AM
say the Phils get Halladay, imagine the first round pitching matchups of the playoffs if both them and the Giants make it?
Halladay vs Lincecum
Hamels vs Cain
Blanton or Happ vs Zito
That would make for some good prime time viewing although it'd probably be relegated to the worst time slots if the Dodgers and or Cubs make it.
Posted by: philsWSchamps | July 10, 2009 at 08:48 AM
the whole "pitching in that ballpark" is silly... check here http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor?season=2009 and sort by HRs, and see that the rogers center is .001 behind citizens bank park this year... 2008 citizens bank was a little higher but its not like every ball flies out of the park
also hes a groundball strikeout pitcher, so pitching there will be no issue
Posted by: zoltek | July 10, 2009 at 08:52 AM
Pyromantic,
I was simply trying to give you a compliment. Sorry it didn't come across that way.
Posted by: CubCrazy | July 10, 2009 at 09:21 AM
As stated, I would think this is just to possibly sure up the back of the rotation instead of the continuous shuffle that has been going on with Bastardo, Lopez, etc.
Has no bearing on Halladay IMO. Phillies want a frontline guy, the question is will they give up what's needed to get one?
Also, about Halladay accepting a trade to Philly....his priority is winning it sounds like. Isn't he a sinker ball pitcher with a great ground ball ratio? I think he'd be perfect.
Posted by: Dark Donnie | July 10, 2009 at 09:53 AM
"He's got a midget?! Sign him now."
Oh yeah, Nelson de la Rosa. Surprised you didnt know
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/47651
http://pointlessbanter.net/2004/09/20/i-think-i-have-a-new-reason-to-live/
and this next one has the great comments from my Cubs
http://www.thecubsbrickyard.com/2009/06/25/chicago-cubs-actually-we-were-scouting-pedros-midget-friend/
“We don’t need pitching,” Hendry explained. “We need offense, and there’s nothing more offensive than signing a primordial dwarf and sticking him in a sleeping Lou Piniella’s pocket just to see what happens.”
(Lou mistook him for an evil garden gnome, in case you were wondering.)
“You want to talk about plate discipline,” the Cubs new hitting coach Von Joshua said of De la Rosa. “I dare you to throw a strike to that guy.”
Posted by: SuzysMan | July 10, 2009 at 12:13 PM
Nelson de la Rosa died in 2006. He and Joe C are hanging out in little-man heaven right now throwing batting practice to Eddie Gaedel. Gaedel is the shortest mlb player ever (3 feet, 7 inches, and had a walk in his only at bat).
Posted by: sdrdsx | July 10, 2009 at 01:18 PM