Braves Rumors: Escobar, Soriano, Payroll

Can we please stop with the idea of trading Escobar, he is probably our best player right now.

Soriano Isn't going anywhere. If anyone goes anywhere it will be Gonzo. Bullpen is heavy with leftys and Soriano is now the full time closer and Gonzo doesn't fit in the 8th. O'Flarety and Logan, are great fits. A package around Gonzo would fetch someone and unload some money. Escobar isn't gonna go anywhere. Its all scare tactics because I don't think he wants to go anywhere either...

or hayward in right and Mclouth in left..

We really shouldn't be entertaining the idea of trading away any of our core guys. With Jeff and Kelly out and Prado and Church/Diaz in let's just see how things go for a couple of weeks and reevaluate at the deadline. I would be okay if the Braves just stand pat this year or if anything just add another reliever or two. Moylan has been struggling lately but his location is much better than at the beginning of the year O'Flaherty is much better than I thought he would be and Sori has been lights out. Gonzo has to get it together and Carlyle and Campillo would be better options than Jeff Bennett and Manny Acosta so maybe they come back healthy and help. Garrett is a second half player and if Esco keeps up his production and Chip and Mac get hot who knows. The only way we have a chance is if Bobby just keeps going with the hot hand, keep getting Conrad AB's right now, when Omar comes back see if he can get going again but if I see Norton or Jeff Bennett in the game again I'm gonna throw up. Honestly though I think the only thing for Braves fans to look forward to this year is the September call ups of Heyward and Freeman.

Siskel,

No way Heyward or Freeman get called up this season, Sept 2010 perhaps.

thats what i just said key words "after this season"

i haven't exactly been the biggest supporter on yunel, but isnt it a little premature to say what he will/wont do four years from now?

I agree with most on here that Escobar should not be traded but if he is he should get one top notch power OF bat or a bluechip prospect plus a major league ready SS (most likely a good glove, scrappy, slash hitting run of the mill type)

I was very skeptical that Heyward would make the bigs full time by next year but the way he is swinging the bat upon his promotion I feel there could be a good chance he gets a fair look out of spring next year. If Schafer comes back later this year and gets a solid month in AAA with a healthy wrist he should be slotted in CF for next year. I really don't see a need for a huge OF contract for next year or a need to trade away our SS to fill an OF spot.

Next year we can have:

1. McLouth LF
2. Prado/Infante 2B
3. Chipper 3B
4. McCann C
5. Escobar SS
6. Heyward/Diaz/Church RF
7. Kotchman 1B
8. Schafer CF

Again not a very scary lineup but there would be at least a + defender at SS, 1B, LF, CF, RF(Heyward) and only one poor defender at 3B (sorry Chipper, I still love you). It would however allow us to pick up Hudson's option with cash left over to solidify our pen allowing us to have a top 5 overalll staff with a great defense behind it.

The Braves aren't trading Escobar unless they get an elite package of players and prospects in return.

People say "we" when they are discussing their team. There are far too many posts criticizing this pratice on this website. Get over it.

"thats what i just said key words "after this season"

Posted by: Bravesfan13 | July 15, 2009 at 09:40 AM"

I dont know why everyone keeps saying this. They are already in AA, and their plate discipline is already very good. They will compete for the jobs out of ST, but will not likely get them, and we will see a mid-season call-up, like Wieters this year.

Or you can let it go and sit in front of you computer and stew about it till you have a heart attack. We will refer to our teams as we want because we buy tickets and therefore pay parts of player’s salaries so "we" is applicable.

Elvis Andrus would've been great to have right about now. grr.

personally i think Escobar's defense may be a little overrated, but it's respectable. his arm i think is solid, but his range, i think is a little iffy. i also worry he may slip here even more as he gets older.

Escobar's bat, though, is pretty nice for a SS. it's not earth-shattering, but i could see him maintaining ~775-825 OPS for some time. that would be just outside the top-5 MLB shortstops in most years. problem is, if his defense gets worse it would start to eat into that value and then they would probably be looking to move him to another position. 3B would be the most likely destination, which could be nice timing in 2-3 years when Chipper retires. only problem with that is Escobar's bat would be more like league-average for 3B. i mean, i think he would be serviceable, but probably no great shakes there.

so i don't know. i'll grant that at 400K, Escobar is definitely a valuable commodity NOW but i have my doubts as to whether we'll be able to say that in 2-3 years time. it might be nice to flip him for the right package now while his value is high. the Rios/Scutaro suggestion above is pretty appealing, for example. Scutaro plays great D, and although he is older, he is still relatively cheap and probably could play a decent SS for a year or two (giving us time to find someone else for long-term). i'm also not 100% sold on Schafer as our future in CF. Rios could be great insurance in case that doesn't pan out.

"They will compete for the jobs out of ST, but will not likely get them, and we will see a mid-season call-up, like Wieters this year."

There's a huge difference between Heyward's and Wieters' situations though, and that is that the O's this year were not contending and the Braves next year are almost definitely contenders.

When you're contending, you want your best team on the field, regardless. The service time issue is not worth the risk for a noncontender, which is why Wieters was called up midseason, but it definitely is worth the risk for a contender IMO. If Heyward dominates the competition in ST, he belongs on the Opening Day roster, pure and simple.

"It's cool to see that a bunch of Braves employees read MLBTR on the DL, what with all the "our" and "we" I'm seeing here."

The fans pay their salaries don't they so WE can say whatever WE want to say.

would Hawpe and Barmes for Escobar be so bad?

"would Hawpe and Barmes for Escobar be so bad?

Posted by: Showtime35 | July 15, 2009 at 11:06 AM"

Maybe bad for the Rox

Haha. I would love to see a hawpe and barnes for escobar trade, no way it would happen. Rockies don't need escobar. We need to trade vasquez, because even if we lose him we still have the best pitching in the division.

I don't think the Braves will give Hayward and/or Freeman and/or Johnson a September call-up, but what damage could it do? The AA season ends a few weeks before the ML so why not let them get the experience and be in that locker-room hopefully in the midst of a pennet race instead of siting around at home? It would likely help revenue and if any of them just tear it up even better for there confidence. I do think even if they get a call-up you still start them in AAA next year and then let them come-up around June.

"Does Frank Wren care more about appeasing Bobby Cox or putting a winning team on the field?

Because trading Yunel Escobar would be completely ridiculous."

Cox probably has more power than Wren, FWIW. He's the HOF manager. He did a ton for that organization.

"The Cardinals are interested in Escobar, but they wouldn't trade Ryan Ludwick."

Something is wrong with this statement. It should say that the Cardinals were interested in Escobar but the BRAVES wouldn't trade him for Ludwick alone. If the Brave were trading Escobar to the Cardinals they would want Colby Rasmus in return, not a 30 year, often injured, one year wonder like Ludwick.

There is a major difference between Wieters and Heyward or Freeman and thats experience. He was older and more seasoned when he was called up (given his time in college). With the Braves problems with calling up guys too early (Francouer, Schafer ect.) I would prob. wait until sept. 2010 at the earliest to call them up. You don't want to screw with that talent. Had they held Schafer at AAA he might have been ready to contribute in the 2nd half. But now he might not be ready for next year. Also while Wieters is doing ok he's not on top of the world yet. I'd even imagine a greater learning curve for Heyward and Freeman once they hit the majors, given their youth. The Braves will need a RF and 1B that they can count on next year if they want to compete.

Cox probably has more power than Wren, FWIW. He's the HOF manager. He did a ton for that organization.

Yeah. I kinda figured that out after Wren said Frenchy would be in the minors for a while.. And then Cox started throwing around his weight and it turned into a couple days... (I suspect he went over Wren's head.)

Cody,

You don't make yourself look much starter when you start comparing Jack Wilson to Yunel Escobar in terms of value. Jack Wilson has a team option for 8.4 million next year then he's a free agent. When Wilson is hitting free agency, Escobar will be hitting arbitration for the first time. The difference between the value of the two is immense.

I agree that with Javier gone the Braves will still have the best rotation in the Division. The Braves need an upgrade in their relief and a power bat in the outfield. Javier could fetch a good bat and a prospect or two and the money in the offseason could go to upgrading the pen and resigning Soriano. Church and Diaz could play both a platoon role or a bench role, so unless Church does great this year, the Braves could have Schafer platoon with Diaz until Heyward makes it to the scene all the while having a bat in the outfield.
Line-up:
Righties--------Lefties
1. McLouth RF---McLouth CF
2. Prado 2B-----Prado 2B
3. Chipper 3B---Chipper 3B
4. Powerbat LF--Powerbat LF/RF
5. McCann C-----McCann C
6. Escobar SS---Escobar SS
7. Kotchman 1B--Diaz RF/LF
8. Schafer CF---Kotchman 1B
9. Pitcher P----Pitcher P
Church, Infante, Conrad, Sammons/Ross on the Bench.
Rotation:
1. Hudson
2. Lowe
3. Jiar
4. Hanson
5. Kawakami
Long: Carlyle R: Free Agent L: O'Flaugherty SU: Medlen C: Soriano

Walt Jocketty needs to get on the phone with Wren ASAP. The Reds need a SS like Escobar badly, and he would really round out the lineup nicely.

Heisey, Cozart, Masset, Maloney

for

Escobar, low A pitching prospect with upside

Get it done, Walt...

melonis rex- Sorry my context wasn't correct I mean what Yunel does offensively Jack wilson most certainly makes up for it defensively. Now can we lay off the Jack Wilson discussion I agree it wasn't the best comparison.

Cody, if it makes any difference, I got your point and liked it. Not the best comparison to make your point, but your point was clear.

El Duderino,

That deal doesn't really make sense. There are no true quality guys in that package, basically a couple of C+, maybe B- at best prospects. Only Cozart might fit a need, but he's not a guarantee to stick at SS. The only guy who helps the Braves in the short term is Masset and really whats the point of strengthening the bullpen when you're punting the season by trading your SS for spare parts? This is leaving aside you asking for a low A pitching prospect with upside (those guys the Braves have pretty much all grade out as better prospects than anyone you have the Reds giving up in that package). If the Braves trade Escobar is likely going to be for quality, not quantity.

Look I think the thing people haven't realized is that the braves don't need or have to move escobar. They aren't actively shopping him either, they'll listen but you have to bring your best offer

Wow. I would love a escobar ludwick trade, as long as the cards fill our shortstop hole, and I'm not sure if they can do that. But they won't give up ludwick anyways so oh well...

The best thing the braves can do right now is nothing. Let this team play the season out and see if they can make the playoffs as is. Then in the off-season go after Matt Holliday (we will easily have the money to do this), offer gonzalez and soriano arbitration (neither will accept barring a terrible second half imo), re-sign Soriano for 3 years at roughly 8 million a year, pick up hudson's option, and trade Vazquez for prospects. Could also trade some prospects for Dan Uggla if you don't like Prado as the long term solution at second-or he could play first with uggla at second. The Braves will be in a great position to become a top team in the NL this off-season, don't mess it up by making a bad, deadline deal

Nixa37 I just brought up to similar players who have the same value (salary aside). I know calling into question someone's intelligence is rude but it was a haste judgement call. it was call him stupid or go nuts and spur out obscene vulgar to my monitor. I know the former wasn't the best way to go about it but it's too late now, and I still feel satisfied to having defended Rasmus' name and no doubtingly his reputation he has as a future star.

bravesfan22193 - Wilson still beats him Defensively but hitting I pretty much agree with you.

Bravesalltheway, you obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Colby rasmus is 29 about to turn 30 so why would you compare him to ryan ludwick who is a much more promising player. do some research before you open your mouth

rasmus is a rookie at 29 no way in he$$ he is going to be a franchise player

Pujols must have shown Colby where to get his birth certificate

Colby Rasmus was born August 11, 1986. Now I'm no math genius but that doesn't add up to 29 meaning you have no idea what you're talking about. He and Pujols are the future of that team

He's one of the top prospects in the bigs.

Ben- you're a friggin' moron. Do some research before you write...or better yet, get off the site! Rasmus is 29/30?! Have you even seen a baseball game?!

As for the Braves fans here, I'm impressed with your passion, but your general (some worse than others) lack of ANY objectivity is disconcerting. Escobar is a solid SS and a valuable one, given his contract, but some of the hyperbole here is crazy, as are the 'trade offers' being suggested.

People a lot smarter than you decided that they'd rather have Ludwick than Escobar. Was that the right move? Who knows. But it does give you some indication as to how the baseball world views Escobar.

Bravesfan22193- I get that you like Escobar, but to shrug off his antics and to discount the perception held by Cox and others that Escobar IS a head case is akin to an ostrich sticking his head in the sand. Kid's a pain in the a$$; or at least that's how Cox- a certain HOF'er- seems to see him. I could be wrong- we'll see- but I think that you have some unrealistic expectations so far as a trade. Furthermore, plenty of the fans out here seem to think they've got a 'Being John Malkovich' style tunnel into Wren's brain. How else do you explain the blatant disregard for a PERVASIVE rumor? Calling it 'much ado about nothing' or going so far as to declare 'Escobar is going nowhere'... Cite your source!

Oh and since I'm knocking folks, let me toss in a tip of the cap to WS2009- a Braves fan with a grip on reality. It's nice to see intelligent fans with relatively unbiased views on value represented. Good stuff.

also, perhaps in ben's defense, if you switch ludwick and rasmus in his statement it makes sense, with ludwick being 29 30 etc. just shows you gotta take a second and think about what you are gonna type if you are gonna type something that claims someone else is an idiot etc. kinda boneheaded to call a dude an idiot and in the next sentence make a dumbass comment like rasmus is 29 when anybody can zip over to what ever fantasy baseball site they use, look at his player card and see he isnt.

... its a bone in your hand
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamate_bone

i think the thought has been more or less squashed by now but im just gonna throw out there that if the cardinals were gonna move rasmus the first team they call wont be the braves with escobar. i get a feeling they'd be on the phone with toronto and talking haladay. just a hunch.

People a lot smarter than you decided that they'd rather have Ludwick than Escobar. Was that the right move? Who knows. But it does give you some indication as to how the baseball world views Escobar.

Just because they have a job with a major league club doesn't mean they always make the right decision. Heck look at the cubs off-season for example, im sure 90% of the readers on this site could have done better than hendry

What will it likely take a team to sign Holliday (the outfielder) in the offseason. Will it need to be a 20+M/year contract?

People a lot smarter than you decided that they'd rather have Ludwick than Escobar. Was that the right move? Who knows. But it does give you some indication as to how the baseball world views Escobar.
=================================

Just thought I'd focus a little more closely on this in particular. At no point in the article did they talk about the Cardinals turning down a Escobar for Ludwick swap. All DOB says is that the person he talked to said that the Cards were interested in Escobar and added that the Cardinals wouldn't consider trading Ludwick right now. This also tells us nothing about how the rest of the baseball world values Escobar as it doesn't even tell us how the Cards value him. All it says is that they consider Ludwick unmovable right now.

But please continue bashing Braves fans without ever actually bothering to read the article.

"• Off with the show: Bobby Cox isn't the only one that has been rubbed the wrong way by Braves shortstop Yunel Escobar's attention to style over detail lately.

"Somebody better remind him he's Yunel Escobar, not Gloria Estefan," said one scout. "There ain't no show going on. This is baseball. Let's play."

off jayson starks "rumblings" june 18 at 2:11 pm

jeff schultz ajc sports columnist says this
http://blogs.ajc.com/jeff-schultz-blog/2009/06/15/escobar-and-the-next-wave-are-killing-braves/

one of you all said no one has labelled him a head case.... just looking to see if anyone has

Sorry about the age mix up still there is no way rasmus is as good as escobar besides we cant trade a SS for an outfielder when we have no other SS