Olney On Pirates, Marlins, Escobar

Since Escobar is himself a good hitter, trading him for a different good hitter is not going to help the team much. I guess if they traded him for a right fielder and Infante came back and played SS full time and hit as well as he did before his hand was broken then that might be a modest upgrade. If they do trade Escobar, it will be more because of his personality clashes with Bobby Cox than to improve the team.

i will be thoroughly surprised if Milledge pans out during however long he is in pitts-ville. For a once top prospect who is now with his 3rd team in just over 2 seasons, you have to think he's not going to pan out. He couldn't change his mentality on even the worst team in baseball, so what makes people think he'll be any different in Pittsburgh?

Bobby needs to get off his old school high horse and realize that Yunel is gonna be a stud! so what if he's cocky. He's talented on both sides of the ball and has all star potential. Whos gonna replace him? seriously.

Rios,Scutaro for Escobar and a prospect?

what is Yunels contract situation braves fans? is he still under team control, arbitration years or walking soon?

Billy, call Wren. This is exactly what the doctor ordered. A shortstop. Who can hit AND field. And controlled for the next 4.5 years.

Although if the A's are the team, they're going to have to do the deal with hitting prospects, since trading Escobar is assumed as punting the season for the Braves. Then the A's can trade Holliday/Kennedy (or keep Holliday for picks), release the dead weight, and go on with the youth movement.

The A's do need to sell and release a few vets, but a guy like Escobar becoming available is perfect for the team.

If the Braves trade Yunel for a 34 yr old FA in Scutaro and Rios with his contract, that will be another deal that will haunt them.

I have a hard time believing that teams can't afford Willingham. He's only got $1.5 million left for this year, and has two more Arb. years. It seems like teams that need some added outfield power (Braves, Reds, Giants ect.) could afford that level of commitment.

the problem is the nationals seem to want unrealistic stuff in return for their players. Its been that way for years really.

1- I assume cost controlled is an objective since Escobar is cost controlled himself. Rios doesn't fly IMO.

2- This Escobar situation reminds me of the Nick Swisher and Javy Vazquez trades last offseason. Manager dislikes good player. Good player gets traded for pennies on the dollar. Team ends up worse because of it.

BravesAlltheWay.....I like Esco too...but he isn't even their second best player. Chipper and McCann are both better players than Esco is right now. My fellow Braves fans always seem to overvalue this guy. He's good, not great. And right now, he's acting immaturely way too often. I'd only deal him for the right package, but let's not act like this guy is untouchable.

If Wren trades Escobar, the fans will ask for Bobby's job and his head on a platter.

melonis,

I would guarantee that for the A's to get Escobar, it would cost more than what they would get back for Holliday. It would cost a minimum of 3 or 4 top 10 prospects and other players/prospects on top of it.

Oh. And BTW... why would you trade Yesco for a RF? I mean, I've really started to dislike Frenchy but he has started to come around and he is nasty in the OF, especially when throwing down guys at home. Plus, don't forget, he has the lucky turkey underwear (so credit 7 wins to him [he was reportedly NOT wearing them last night]).

"ouch! thats REALLY overvaluing"

Cost-controlling, under team control for like 4 or 5 more years, and the Braves don't need to trade him, so it will take a big haul to get him.

My dog knows more about baseball and knows more accurate rumors/gossip than Onley does.

YES, Esco's a stud...but he's also half brain dead when it comes to smarts on the field... If Infante comes back healthy then it makes perfect sense to trade Esco for an OF hitter. Infante is GOOD and doesn't make the mental mistakes & playing errors that Yunel does. Also, Esco is probably 1 of the few pieces left that A) the front office would likely part with..and B) the front office would likely get anything of value for, so why not trade him?

Yes you'll likely have to take on some salary, but in the long run it makes our team "smarter on the field" and with the talent we have in our farm (Hicks, Gorkys) and with guys like Prado playing like SOLID regulars everytime they're given the chance I don't see why you wouldn't want to move Yunel for a bat (only problem is finding a suitor).

What does everyone else think?

You don't have Gorkys anymore.

Cost-controlling, under team control for like 4 or 5 more years, and the Braves don't need to trade him, so it will take a big haul to get him.

Posted by: BravesRed | July 01, 2009 at 10:19 AM

BravesRed, I'm afraid there is a big difference between these simple equations as a fan and the equations a GM has to mull over.

Escobar is good but not good enough to be the headache that he is (apparently).

He has sat out the last 4 games after little league-esk antics over a play where he clearly made an error. A great short stop knocks that ball down and then doesn't throw it because they didn't have the chance. Escobar made an immature play by throwing the ball (which he threw away) and then showed his immaturity by complaining on field.

Carlos Zambrano is good too, but you won't see teams lining up for him for the same reason.

A "good hitter" for the Braves is someone of equal-ish talent/contract length but also someone who can rid them of this headache that has become Escobar.

"The Problem will be finding a spot to put the guy we trade for"
Posted by: BravesNut26 | July 01, 2009 at 10:34 AM

Wonder if they would work some kind of package deal that would include Francouer to get a power OF and stopgap SS til Omar returns.

All Braves fans....Omar Infante is NOT a shorstop. He is a utility player. If the Braves trade Escobar we will be stuck with Diory Hernandez at shortstop for a LONG time.

Just to add to my comment, a Microwave oven would be a defensive upgrade to Escobar.

"Just to add to my comment, a Microwave oven would be a defensive upgrade to Escobar."

So, are you saying that Rollins and Ramirez are worse than a microwave, because Escobar is better defensively then both of them.

Escobar - 4.41 RF
Rollins - 3.82 RF
Ramirez - 3.99 RF

Rollins and Ramirez have 2 of the lowest RF's in the ML's. Only Ryan Theriot is worse.

BravesNuts26,

You're clearly an idiot who has no idea what he's talking about when it comes to defense. Escobar was among the best defenders in the league at SS last season and his range has been held back this season because of the lingering hip flexor injury. As for Diory, his fielding numbers this far are nothing special (he actually has a worse UZR/150 though extremely SSS) and he's a worse hitter than probably about 1/2 of NL pitchers. Seriously, Diory's doesn't even have 50 ABs yet, but he's somehow managed to be nearly 8 runs worse than average at the plate. I didn't even know that was possible.

Oh and if we're going to start benching guys regardless of their offense if they struggle on defense, why don't we bench Chipper while we're at it. He's been far worse defensively this season than Escobar has.

Dayton Moore has been looking for a shortstop ever since he got to KC, and we know how he loves ex-Braves. I know there were rumors the Braves were interested in David DeJesus. Would they still be interested in him despite his crappy season thus far? He's signed to a very good long term deal through 2011, and is pretty consistent with good OBA skills, other than this year.

I'm not sure he alone is worth Yunel straight up, but maybe DJ and a pitching prospect could get it done.

"So, are you saying that Rollins and Ramirez are worse than a microwave, because Escobar is better defensively then both of them.

Escobar - 4.41 RF
Rollins - 3.82 RF
Ramirez - 3.99 RF

Rollins and Ramirez have 2 of the lowest RF's in the ML's. Only Ryan Theriot is worse."

Posted by: BravesRed | July 01, 2009 at 10:52 AM

Dude, escobar has made 11 ERRORS, 11!!! How can you get much worse than that? And all the RF stat means is that the braves have good groundball pitches, therefore he gets more chances to make plays.

Nixa37,
Id much rather have an auto-out in diory hernandez than a total selfish idiot that worries more about his own stats than winning games, a REAL player wouldnt care id an ump made a bad defensive call as long as his team won the game. Escobar needs to think about the team more than himself.

Seriously, Chipper is barely has a fielding percentage of 90%, yet you're complaining about Yunel and his .961? Hell, Andrus has more errors than Yunel, but people apparently want him back.

So apparently you're a mind reader too, impressive. How else would you know what's going through every player's mind?

What about Francoeur? He sure seems to care more about himself than the team. He bitched and moaned about the Braves sending him to the minors last year in order to get his bat right, when it was clear he was killing the team with his abilities. I don't hear you complaining about him.

Oh, and Chipper goes out there everyday and plays his heart out for the team and not himself? Didn't Smoltz call him out just last year for sitting out more games with an injury than was necessary?

I love idiots like you who seem to think team players that aren't actually good at baseball will help a team more than lesser teammates who are legitimately good at the game of baseball. I guess that's why the Red Sox struggled so much with Manny right?

Ummm...I can't answer that question because I can't read minds. Still, considering that Yunel has to continue playing well to ever earn more than league minimum, I don't think it really matters what he's playing for as long as he's playing well. And he has. Chipper and McCann are the only two full time positional players with a better WAR thus far this season.

Escobar is a good player, not great. If the Braves were able to get a shortstop in return and also a good OF bat then I would pull the trade. Escobar doesn't make the team. That's the whole point to him sitting out, other than the injury, he isn't a team player. I agree Chipper has more errors and isn't playing up to his defensive standards but atleast he is about the team to a point, but he is also dropping his power stats in order to maintain a high batting avg. Now, let me throw this scenario out at you for opinions, Jimmy Rollins is having a off year in Philly, why not trade Escobar and a pitcher to Philly for Rollins and one of victorino or Werth

Did you seriously just ask why Escobar would say he would help the team by increasing his own stats? I'm pretty sure that's the most effective way of helping your team win. Seriously, that's the most asinine comment I've seen on this site in a while.

Oh and I don't think Francoeur's glove has ever saved a run. With his arm, sure, but he's actually got pretty bad range in RF and is an average defensive player at best once all things are considered. Oh, he was also among the worst defensive RF in baseball last season. You know, while Yunel was among the best defensive SS. I'm sure you somehow convinced yourself otherwise though.

I know why Chipper has a bad hamstring. I follow this game much more closely than you do. I also know that he has terrible foot problems that limit him as well. Its the reason the Braves aren't comfortable moving him to 1B. That doesn't change the fact that he was called out publicly by the team's leader for not being a team player and playing through the pain.

As for importance in helping your team wins games, I think it goes something like:
baseball skills (being a superstar)>>>>>personality
>>>>playing for the love of the game

The Braves don't have enough money to take on Rollins contract and there is no way a trade like that goes down between division rivals.

Look, I have no problem trading Escobar as long as we get close to equal value in return. Considering the position the Braves have taken though it seems extremely doubtful that will happen.

Atkins is on last year of a 7M contract, but he is not worth Saito 04Forever

Nixa, well said i'm just 2 mins slow.

dsv

god i HATE TYPEKEY!!!! AHHHHH!!!!!

What's the difference if it's a trade or a free agent signing? My point being is this, Rollins is a spark plug but also a team player, Escobar has a bad attitude. I'm not doubting his talent but he isn't the 3rd best player on that team. I'm sorry but he isn't. You need solid defense up the middle, we have the majority of that now that Prado is a 2nd and Mac behind the plate and Nate in center. We need a solid defensive shortstop. Escobar is too flashy and has trouble with the routine plays. I love Chipper, he is my all time favorite Brave, but he needs to be a DH but he isn't going anywhere, so discussion about him is over. Pitching, Defense and timly hitting wins championships. That's what we need to get back to. The basics. Teach fundementals!!!!

Nixa, get off the race card.
How about dwayne wise and willie harris...I could categorize them as heart and grit.

Yeah, that's why the teams with the best stats always struggle so much in the standings, right? Pujols stats are really hurting his team this year, right? If he'd just care about winning a little more and tone down the stats a little (seriously Albert you don't need all those HR) the Cards would be a much better team.

Oh, and if you think Escobar sucks defensively, here's a link where people who are more knowledgeable than you and me when it comes to baseball voted on the best defensive SS of 2008:
http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/charts/voting2-08.gif

BTW, when you consistently call an MIT student an idiot, it might be time for you to take a little look in the mirror...

BravesNut, did Yunel not give you an autograph before the game? Is that what this is REALLY about?

I love how people seem to think they are smart! I dont claim to be any smarter than anyone else, but I do believe I am entitled to an opinion.

Thanks, Nixa. I agree with everything you have been saying. Any Braves fan who is in favor of trading Escobar is totally out of their mind.

You did forget Garrett Anderson. Bobby gives him a free pass ...though he is the laziest outfielder I have ever seen in my life.

I love how people seem to think they are smart! I dont claim to be any smarter than anyone else, but I do believe I am entitled to an opinion.

Posted by: BravesNut26 | July 01, 2009 at 11:52 AM

Right, you don't claim to be smarter than anyone else, but you have no problem calling other people idiots? Yeah, you're not the sharpest tool in the shed.

No one said you aren't entitled to an opinion, however when you're calling someone who goes to MIT an idiot it might be time to reevaluate that opinion. Just saying...

this is a baseball forum not talking about how ppl r idiots

i think he should stay hes gitting better every year and has arguablly the strongest s.s. arm in the NL. Keep him. His attitude will come

even if he dosent give up a run in a inning he still gets into trouble like 1st and 2nd base. Theres a resason hes not the closer 4 the brvaes anymore

...is it really so hard to type "to" or "for" instead of "2" or "4"?

Right, and your opinion is completely wrongheaded and behind the times. Nate doesn't make all the routine plays and he ends making routine plays look like great ones because he doesn't have good range for a CF. Last year, his lack of range cost the Pirates over 16 runs from what a guy with average range for a CF would have provided. Escobar's range on the other hand allowed him to save 6 runs that the average SS would have let up.

By the way, why do Nate's diving catches constitute great plays, but when Escobar makes a similar play its just him looking to be flashy and make Sportscenter. I can't wait to hear the explanation on this one.

r u talking 2 me

Both Soriano and Gonzalez are the Braves closers. Bobby Cox is actually playing the matchups though and bringing Gonzalez in based on when the other team has its toughest lefties up. Its actually the one really impressive thing Bobby has been willing to do thus far.

Austin,

No worries, those comments were directed towards bravesfan3110.