Roy Halladay Rumors: Thursday

"Bob Elliott of the Toronto Sun lists the Angels and Brewers as the leaders to acquire Halladay."

The Angels don't have the elite level talent to get Halladay. Unless the Angels are ready to give up Weaver or Napoli, they're not getting a Halladay deal done. They don't have elite level talent in their minor league system.

Brewers might be able to get a deal done with Gamel, Escobar, Lawrie, Cain, and a 5th guy, maybe (I don't know their system well)

Gamel + Escobar in and of themselves would be a great haul for the Jays. Anything else they could pry away would be icing on the cake, IMO.

It is correct that now is the best time to get the most in return for Halladay. If they wait 'til the off season or next years deadline the price will have to be reduced significantly. Not to mention that is more money they have to pay Roy.

People said the Cubs didn't have the prospects to get Peavy but that wasn't true. With the Cards and Brewers trying to get him, don't be surprised to see the Cubs jump in some time. That said, I think the Phillies have the best shot with the Angels a close second.

If your philly and the first 2 players Toronto asks for is Happ and Donald your happy as hell. the 1st 2 players are asking for from the phils is 2 of Carrasco, Drabek,Taylor,Brown.

Personally I hope Drabek and Taylor then Donald and Happ.

@Devmac: Happ and Donald are the two ML ready guys (with Donald being close). It has been reported that the Jays want a SS, so Donald would be a piece.

With a Halladay, they may ask for all the names you listed. For the Phillies (addressed to Philly fans), is it worth it?

Do you trade the farm for Roy Halladay?

If a Roy Halladay deal does not absolutely ravage and destroy a team's farm system, and that team's name is not Texas, Oakland, Florida, or Tampa Bay (the 3 latter teams wouldn't make a Halladay deal anyway), then the Jays did not get a good haul for Halladay.

If the Jays don't have a top 5 system, hell, top 3 after all the promotions the A's, Fish, Rays, and Rangers made, in MLB after a Halladay trade, they're doing it wrong.

I really hope the phils let this guy pass. Happ has been pitching extremely well as of late and seems to have the personality of a #2-#3 guy. So between Drabek, Savery, Carrasco, Carpenter, Knapp they really have a chance to form a young stud rotation that will pick up after some of the offense leaves in the future.

Torgen, you're right. I should've been more clear with that, those are the only 4 teams who wouldn't have a bottom 5-10 farm system after putting together a fair Halladay offer, not factoring in players from this year's draft, since most haven't signed yet.

It'll ravage their systems though.

If you were a GM who would you give up to obtain him???

I say the 2 weakest farm systems are Astros and Mets unless u take their whole AAA &AA teams

What is with all the massive double and triple posting on this site lately.

"People said the Cubs didn't have the prospects to get Peavy but that wasn't true. With the Cards and Brewers trying to get him, don't be surprised to see the Cubs jump in some time. That said, I think the Phillies have the best shot with the Angels a close second."

We dont have the money or prospects to get involved. We might call, but it will be a short call.

"What is with all the massive double and triple posting on this site lately."

I have had some problems where the post button doesnt register, even upon refresh the post doesnt show up, but then when I click it again, two or three posts show up. Its an evil button I tell you!

In the interest of full disclosure, let me just say that I am a huge Brewers fan and will try to keep that bias out of this thought.

Gamel and Escobar are 2 very fine prospects and any team parting with them for a 12-18 month rental of any pitcher, even Doc, would have to have its head examined.

With that said, you certainly have to part with one of them. My guess is that Toronto prefers Gamel. Starting with him, I think they would need to toss players like Salome, Lucroy, Greene and Gillespie into the mix. 3 of that 4 in addition to Gamel might not even get it done. The biggest problem the Brew Crew faces is the lack of elite pitching towrd the top of the farm system.

My guess is that they call and decide against pursuing Halladay when it becomes clear what the price is going to be.

Considering the lack of pitching depth in Milwaukee's system, I think that any offer would have to include Gamel and Escobar, unless you wanted to give Toronto essentially every other decent prospect you had instead.

Escobar, Lawrie, Jeffress, Salome, Green, and Dykstra/Cain?

no comments about the red sox goin after him yet...wow.

well here u go...

how about this trade?
clay, diaz(ss), lars for halladay
or maybe get a 3rd team involved to get rid of lugo and give that prospect and/or aaron bates to them?

brendon,

what value does Lars have at this point with his year that he's having? and Diaz? He's not exactly blowing the doors off either.

So basically you're offering a guy that while he has a no-hitter on his resume struggled as a major leaguer last year for the best pitcher in your division. Exactly why would the Jays do that?

I honestly feel bad for whatever team is dumb enough to GUT their farm system for this guy.

He's the best pitcher in baseball.. right now. He's 32. He makes $15 million a year and he's only signed up for this year and next. You aren't going to get an extension window.

The comments I'm seeing from Blue Jays fans (I'm a Yankee fan in the interest of disclosure).. Brandon Wood isn't elite enough to be a centerpiece.. Gamel AND Escobar AND pitching.. Bucholz plus 3 or 4 more players.. Hughes/Montero not quite enough from the Yanks.. half the Phillies top ten..

It's downright comical.

Anyone who think the Angels don't have the talent to bring in Halladay are just kidding themselves.

1. Brandon Wood. The best SS in the minors and it's not even close. I'm not even a Wood fan and even I know he's a shoe in for .260 30 DB 30 HR in a pitcher's park, He's a top 5 offensive SS already and the Angels are holding him back.

2. Trevor Reckling. Just turned 20 years old, has a 2.47 ERA in AA, and is left handed and is still growing. His fastball is 2-3 mph faster than it was last year, curve has a sharper break and has just developed a wicked slider and change. He'll be a a major league all-star before he's 23.

3. Jordan Walden. Career minor league ERA in the low 3's, more K's than innings pitched, touching triple digits on the rader gun, is commonly compared to a better version of John Lackey, and he's only 21.

4. Trevor Bell. 2005 1st round pick, Currently 22 years old, in AAA with an ERA of 1.67 and a season ERA between AA and AAA of under 2.50.

5. Hank Conger. 2006 1st round pick, only 20 year old and is a AA all-star catcher. He'll be ready for the bigs in a year at age 21 and projects to be a .290 25 HR catcher with above average defense.

6. Sean Rodriguez. 24 year old 2B in AAA, before being called up was on pace for well over 40 HR this season. K prone in all fairness. Can also play SS, 3B, all 3 OF, and catcher.

7. Chris Pettit. 22 years old in AAA, plays all 3 OF positions well, before injury was batting over .350 with an OBP well over .400. Projects as a solid defending OF with .280 30 DB 15 HR 25 SB stat line. Poor man's Matt Kemp.

8. Erick Aybar, Howie Kendrick, Mike Napoli, Jered Weaver, Kendry Morales

No one can can say the Angels don't have the talent, they acutally have a quite a bit more than most teams. Stop reading Baseball America, an East Coast biased publication for fans only, scouts don't pay any attention to that crap, they know better. So should all of you.

Scott,

I thought the knock on Conger was he can't stay healthy and isn't good behind the plate?

I love Brandon Wood and definitely think he's being underrated (especially by delusional baseball fans in the Great White North), but the fact that he's playing his 3rd season at AAA makes other teams wonder why the Angels won't play him when his competition is Aybar and Izturis.

Withpower,
That was Conger's knock, he was in the weight room at the Angels complex all winter, and spent some time in Latin America. He's stayed healthy this entire year and has plyed the best defense of any catcher in AA (from what I hear). Scouts are raving about his power and discipline at such a young age. Conger's problems health and defensively are in the past.

s for Wood, the reason he's in AAA is organizational philosophy. Mike Scioscia prefers defensively skilled small ball players. He prefers slap hitters over power hitters. Look at the evidence, Aybar, Izturis, Quinlan, Mathis.....

Meanwhile Napoli only shares the catching duties because Mathis can't top .200, Morales was only brought in at 1B as a worst case scenario of losing Kotch and Tex came about, Wood is stuck down at AAA despite being able to play SS,3B and 1B and has even volunteered for OF and catching duty. Scioscia literally ha to find ways to keep him out of the lineup.

Wood's problem isnt Scioscia trying to keep him out of the lineup?? Its because Izturis is batting .300, Aybar is hitting in the .280s, Figgins is batting .300, and Morales is batting in the .280s and has hit 14 hrs. Were getting good production from all of them so there is no use in calling up Wood right now.

And as for Napoli, The reason he splits time is because his defense is not near Mathis. I agree that Napoli is the better catcher but i can see where Scioscia comes from because Napoli is only throwing 24% out right now.

although Mathis isnt doing to great himself...

Right now Napoli should be playing more.

But Scioscia likes Mathis to play at home where he hits much much better than usual. Thats another reason why he plays more.

But like Scott said..The Angels have the peices to acquire Halladay if they want to. But Reagins doesnt like to trade the Farm

Brandon Wood

Catcher with a career .196/.275/.320/.594 (55 OPS+) line over 735 PA

UI type with career .268/.306/.356/.661 (73 OPS+) line over 880 PA

and a choice of two unimpressive pitchers.

For Halladay? You mean Roy Halladay? Or were you thinking Millwood or Westbrook - because it could actually get you Millwood or Westbrook.

"Erick Aybar(25 yrs old) whos batting .280 in his first 2 seasons as a STARTER. so the .268 you bring up doesnt mean much."

I do hope you realize BA is rather useless. If you want to talk about his two years starting, then fine

.279/.319/.380/.699 82 OPS+
That is downright horrendous. When you post a .279 BA and only have a .319 OBP, you are probably not long for the game in anything other then a bench roll.

"Mathis"

No comment huh? Thought so.

"Sean O'Sullivan(21 yrs old) career in minors 36-19 3.61 ERA and in his first 4 starts in Majors hes 2-0 with a 3.80 ERA
Lots of room to work with on this kid, so unimpressive- WRONG AGAIN"

O'Sullivan is nothing that special. His FIP is 4.73, meaning remove the plus defense behind him and him from the pitchers park, and you have league average production. Couple years in the minors and he might turn out to be an ok arm, but he isnt something that impressive right now.

And you omitted his mention of Loux. Thought so.

So no, Wood/Aybar/Mathis/O’Sullivan/Walden does not give the Jays even a fraction of the value being talked about elseware. That is quantity, not quality – it wont get it done. And that is even an increase from the deal originally proposed by the other guy.

Aybar needs a little plate discipline which has grown each year. Hes improving and hes still young

Mathis is a major league catcher thats needs to focus on hitting, but the defense is there. Hes a nice peice to add to the deal.

Any pitcher that does not have a defense behind him is going to struggle. O'Sullivan being 21 and pitching in the Majors effectively is a big plus.

Wood and Walden are 2 top of the line prospects right there. Add a major league ready SS and C, plus another arm that could emerge into a 2 or 3 and you have a very good deal.

This is also without mentioning many other peices if they want to. If the Angels absolutely wanted to, they could put Reckling or Santana or Weaver or Saunders in the deal. They could add Sean Rodriguez, Howie Kendrick, or Izturis. Conger could be added as well. They have many many peices that make the Angels a top candidate to land Roy. Thats the point im getting at, people are saying we dont have enough, but that is not true. If we want Halladay we can get him.

And i agree, Loux is not worth mentioning in that last deal because being 29 already i find him a hit or miss guy and i do not think he is of use to the Jays

The Angels have nowhere near enough pieces to get Halladay!

The Angels are very much in a position to make a play for Halladay if they so choose, and have the talent to put something compelling together; however...

1) As exhibited in the Miguel Cabrera sweepstakes a couple of years ago, the Angels aren't in the business of getting absolutely fleeced by the GM who knows how to find trading partners who are "just one pitcher away from the World Series" (although they made a good effort);

2) I don't think Halladay will be moved by the trading deadline...if he is, it will be orchestrated from levels much higher than J.P. Ricciardi;

3) J.P. Ricciardi has very little leverage with the Angels, as he quite likely will be calling on Reagins for Assistant GM openings next year once Halladay is traded away (and even if he isn't if Tampa Bay finishes ahead two years straight);

But I do agree with the pessimistic Angel talent evaluators in one respect...the Angels don't have a WOW minor league arm to package in a deal that can't be offered by anyone else in the league.

All said, I don't see Halladay in an Angel uniform unless Reagins can make Ricciardi bend over for him. Since this won't be J.P.'s deal to do, such will not happen...