Phillies Decline Option On Pedro Feliz

Joy! Amaro JR. must have something up his sleeve. Hopefully Beltre. Just NOT Melvin Mora. Also, hope Amaro resigns him to a much lesser contract as a bench bat.

I think a lot of these declined options are just a way of getting the same player back at a much reduced cost...just a function of the poor economy.

I wouldn't necessarily say that. Realistically, Feliz isn't not worth 5MM a year. Why pay him more than he's worth if you don't have to?

Something tells me that Figgins is going to get a contract way out of proportion to his value.

YESSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!

i think that Beltre is the perfect fit. They will get more offense out of Beltre even if he has one of his worse seasons than they could ever expect from Feliz. Beltre will also give them a solid defender at 3B, where they will see very little difference between him and Feliz.

Beltre will probably get a 2 year deal for about 7 million each year and the Phillies will improve on their already very good offense.

Wow, I'm starting to agree. Ending every rumor with "What do YOU think they should do?" is starting to sound pretty condescending.

ADRIAN BELTRE!!!!

"Beltre will probably get a 2 year deal for about 7 million each year and the Phillies will improve on their already very good offense."

According to FanGraphs, Adrian Beltre was worth $67.4 million over the course of his five-year, $64 million contract with Seattle.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=639&position=3B

Raul Ibanez was valued at $40.9 million over his final five years in Seattle.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=607&position=OF

If a 36-year-old Ibanez landed a three-year, $31.5 million contract with Philadelphia a year ago, what kind of contract will Scott Boras seek for the 30-year-old Beltre this offseason?

Despite the economic climate, I suspect Beltre's next salary will be more than $7 million a year.

PhinaLeeWPhC, i don't think the mets are trading beltran LOL. remember scott boras is beltre's agent. who ever gets him has to overpay.

beltre baby

Maybe 5 is a bit small, but I don't see more than 7 million, 8 at the most. anything more isn't worth it. Over 8 is Figgins territory.

Seattle may well offer Adrian Beltre arbitration now that Philadelphia has declined the option on thirdbaseman Pedro Feliz and become another potential suitor for Beltre. Scott Boras may advise Beltre to decline a Mariner offer of arbitration and test the market. If Beltre accepts a Seattle offer of abitration, the Mariners would have Beltre for one season somewhere around Beltre's 2009 salary of $12 million.

Seems like the smart move.

All the FA third baseman or available via trade are better bats - most are good fielders too.

My guess is Beltre' or Tejada. Either one would be great for the Phils. I hope it's Beltre. He's only 31, has a great glove, and another power threat in the line-up. Plus, he's played with Moyer, Raul, and Dobbs before.

Are the Phillies going to be in a good financial position this offseason or are arb raises going to make them keep their spending down? Just a suggestion if the latter is true, Willy Aybar from the Rays, he's about avg at third but given 500ab's could probably post an .800 ops (had a .747 this year) and has a cheap year next year then his final arb in '11 [I think]. Also it probably wouldn't take too much to get him if the Rays were willing to part and the Phils could save the money for resigning some of their players.

Kouz has a good glove, but he is stone footed, his range is BAD. Other then that, i think Kouz would be good, but how much would he take to get?

Heck make it 3 or 4 prospects, and pick up Kouz and Heath Bell, who would be the vet set up guy to Lidge who could take over if he melts down again.

Id say 12 mil a year on a 3 year deal for Beltre to sign.

"Philly fans will have to compete with the Dodgers though, cause they want him back bad!"

Dodgers have absolutely no money whatsoever to throw at anything other than bargain bin free agents. They cannot afford Wolf, let alone Beltre.

Im pretty sure that seattle is tired of beltres last half-decade of overpayment/ underproduction. I would be surprised if the two sides worked something out in arbitration. I found out about the time of the all star break this season that beltre was going to be a free agent and i hope ruben actively pursues him. not to mention i hit .750 with beltre on MLB08 the show. my prediction-phils offer him 2yr w option for third--boras gets him 3 year minimum deal (esp. as we look at what the 37 year old ibanez recieved). 10 million minimum per year is what i think he would get and hes worth it. he ll be 31 by opening day, and although he struggled in seattle, the change to hitter-friendly citizens bank may prove to be a resurgence for his production. Beltre, a bullpen guy, and a platoon guy (Carroll, DeRosa, Hairston Jr) these will be the 3 moves they make. Not to keep repeating what everyone else is saying on here, but i am pumped about this potential transaction. power righty in our lineup is going to be a nightmare for opposing pitchers.

Any thoughts on victorino? Does anybody else out there think he might be on the move? he doesnt have a deal for 2010, worked up his trade value this season as an above average starting center fielder, and the phils have outfield depth (taylor) ready to come up...i would nt be surprised if he was out

Too bad they are letting Feliz go. By far the best defensive 3b on the market this offseason. Beltre pretty good defensively also but Figgins is a mess. Doesn't make any sense for Philly to spend money on Figgins or Beltre when they need to lock up a starting pitcher.

I personally think that the Phillies need to sign Beltre because they're built to win now, obviously. His price tag will definitely be high, but it would probably be worth if. He'd be a stud 7 hitter, great defender as every else is saying, and someone who is motivated to win.

However, the money used on Beltre might need to be saved and reallocated to the pitching department. Signing Lee long term (4-5 yrs) is going to need to happen for the future, as well as finding another arm, either this off season or the next. Maybe a Joe Crede or Troy Glaus could be options if they can be ready. They (especially Glaus) have the potential to do some damage, and would be perfect on an incentive based contract. Hopefully for the Phils sake, Cole Hamels can't get his $hit together, and be an ace again. And Jamie Moyer to come back healthy and pitch effectively

Realistically, the Phils should be able to land Beltre because of the money being saved by letting Brett Meyers and his $12 million walk on.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

oh, and I forgot. Go Brewers.

"Im pretty sure that seattle is tired of beltres last half-decade of overpayment/ underproduction."

Adrian Beltre is held in high esteem in Seattle where he has toiled without complaint through three losing seasons in five years in a righthand hitter's nightmare of a stadium.

According to FanGraphs, Adrian Beltre was worth $67.4 million over the course of his five-year, $64 million contract with Seattle.

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=639&position=3B

Beltre disappointed many fantasy baseball owners, but the defensive ace made his real-life contributions.

According to FanGraph Seattle got their money's worth out of him...and more than his contract was worth!

If Ibanez can pull a 3yr $30M+ contract out of the Philly's...you don't think BORAS can pull a minimum of $12.5/year over 4 years? I say that will be the minimum to his signing, and probably a 5th mutual option year. You all know Boras though, he will get teams involved just to bid up the price. Th PHilly's have some money to spend and I can see them spending the majority to tie up Beltre.

Hey if they do...I have a Seattle Beltre jersey to sell to you for your baseball collection.

AND according to FanGraph Beltre has been worth more than what Seattle has paid him over the past 5 years. He's got several years where he's worth $18M+

Boras will get $15M/year for him you watch.

***

Uh, no, he won't. That's a pretty ridiculous assumption. Without looking, I'd say that would easily make him the second highest paid 3b next to A-Rod. Hell David Wright is only making 10mil this coming year, and he's in the prime of his career.

Beltre is on the wrong side of 30 and is coming off an injury plagued season. There will be doubt how he'll hold up over a 162 game season. He'll probably settle for 1/7 if he can get a friendly option year tacked on (mutual option for 10mil that vests based on plate appearances?).

Only Ryan Howard ($19mm) and Chase Utley ($15mm) will make 15mil or more next year on the Phillies. You think Adrian Beltre will make that kind of money? You're simply wrong. And there are no signing bonuses for current MLB players. Just not the way contracts are set up for current MLB players.

If Beltre gets four years at 10+/per from any team in MLB, I'll delete my account here and never post again.

THANK YOU. finally, some others that have common sense. Thank you HollywoodHamels and Suzysman. There is NO way Beltre that kind of ludicrous offer. If he does, which he won't, he better not be playing in Philadelphia. He'll get 2/15 or 3/22, something along those lines. 4/50? 5/65? Are you insane?

"But Beltre has a value about equal to Casey Blakes the past several seasons, and Blake just re-signed for 3/17 - so even the 3/26 I mention might be high-side expectation wise."

Nice comp, although the then 35-year-old Casey Blake did not have Scott Boras as his agent in December 2008 when he signed the three-year contract for $17.75 million (including 2009 earned incentives and the $1.25 million buyout of the 2012 option).

- patsfanatic83

I agree the Phils should go and get Kouz and Bell, but I think Lidge would setup for Bell. What kind of prospect package do you think they would give the Padres? Both players are still cost effective and would really add to the Phils.

Getting Figgins would make there club really hard to deal with, but do they have the money for him? I think they should save as much money as possible so they can try to extend Lee.

"Uh, no, he won't. That's a pretty ridiculous assumption. Without looking, I'd say that would easily make him the second highest paid 3b next to A-Rod. Hell David Wright is only making 10mil this coming year, and he's in the prime of his career.

Beltre is on the wrong side of 30 and is coming off an injury plagued season. There will be doubt how he'll hold up over a 162 game season. He'll probably settle for 1/7 if he can get a friendly option year tacked on (mutual option for 10mil that vests based on plate appearances?).

Only Ryan Howard ($19mm) and Chase Utley ($15mm) will make 15mil or more next year on the Phillies. You think Adrian Beltre will make that kind of money? You're simply wrong. And there are no signing bonuses for current MLB players. Just not the way contracts are set up for current MLB players.

Posted by: HollywoodHamels | November 08, 2009 at 08:03 PM"

You're comparing apples to oranges.

Neither David Wright, Ryan Howard nor Chase Utley have been permitted to test the free agent market and their salaries reflect that.

SuzysMan probably had the best assessment when he wrote about Adrian Beltre:

"Beltre will be lucky to get 3 seasons and most likely will be looking at 30 Million max after his 2009. You would be much more realistic expecting about 2/16 + 10 option then 4/50+."

yea i said 3 year deal, 10 mil a season. 3 things are on the phils bargaining side in attempting to keep it within 8-10 mil/year:
1- frequent, recent stints on the dl (probably going to induce some sort of incentive-based deal)
2- the wide availability of 3rd basemen, or capable utilitiy infielders that can play 3rd, that are currently a part of the 2010 fa class
3- the fact that the phils lineup doesnt really NEED a bat like beltre's. offensive production from the hot corner is a bonus but not a necessity for the phils--ask pedro feliz

Q: what types of bullpen/backup catchers available on the market do ya'll think the phils might negotiate with, if any?

I like how this has turned from a pedro feliz story to a story of not if the phillies will sign beltre, but for how many years and how much money. I dont think he will get what ibanez got, but it could be close- say 3 years 24 million

This guy would be a great pickup for any team. Don't rule out a position change for this guy either. We've seen time and time again that smooth handed soft base man are hard to find and very valuable. His ability to pick it at 3b proves that he has the credentials to do so. Expect him to be looked at for 3B, naturally but also as a first baseman by teams losing their 1b in 2010 and not necessarily looking for a bat but more of a defensive upgrade who will still give you 270 15hr 70rbi

Kouz and Bell really make too much sense for Philly. Their bullpen is struggling, so why not demote the closer who lead the league in blown saves, and bring in the NL saves leader?

Given how hard Phils fans apparently want Beltre, I think they might be interested in Kouz (good glove, and plenty of RH power when he makes contact). Kouz is not a sexy option, but he will be much cheaper than Beltre and can also fill the #7 or 8 spot in that juggernaut of a lineup they have.

Given that both sides prob would be open to the MLB players coming from SD, it is just a matter of agreeing to the prospects going to SD. I have learned from reading this site to never ever mention any names, or else fans who love those prospects' names will rip your freaking head off. Seems strange how attached fans get to their club's prospects given that few rarely get the chance to see them until they are called up to take their lumps.

Mat Gamel for Happ?
Andy LaRoche for Bastardo?

I really think they're going to look for a younger 3B they can control for awhile, and not try to overpay for a FA. Especially with all the arbitration and built-in contractual raises they have in the coming years. Not to mention the fact that they're going to need to lock up their core again in 3 or 4 years.

Gamel for Happ would make some sense, but the crew would probably need a bit more, as Happ could be a bit over rated, and Gamel is going to get much better (but hey, who knows.. cough hardy for gomez cough.) That being said, Gamel needs to improve on his throwing accuracy. Another problem is that the Phillies really don't need another lh bat.

If the angels re-sign figgins, what about trying to acquire Brandon Wood, and let him see if he can hack it? Bringing back Feliz as a back up plan could really make that team more dangerous if it paned out.

I also still like the idea of taking a shot at Troy Glaus, being spelled Dobbs. 35+ homeruns, 80+ RBI in a healthy season at the Bank, and though his range isn't very good, he makes the plays on the balls he gets to.

"Taylor is not getting dealt unless it's for Halladay straight up."

i agree. i really think the organization sees this guy as the takeover for victorino this year or the replacement for werth if he decides to walk after he makes 7 mil in 2010. I see them dealing victorino this offseason, simply because i dont think the phils will offer him a figure to which he could recieve elsewhere. If money doesnt come into play, then probably the phils will sign victorino to a small deal. The CF position in victorino the phils really dont NEED to spend alot of money on, becuase i think they are ready and willing to take a chance on taylor. I want beltre here, but the kouz/bell plan is intriguing me...bottom line--i dont think phils/pads can work it out because all of their B list prospects have been given up for Lee/Francisco. Their A prospects were not even seriously considered for Halladay, as we all know.

There's no way the Twins will go after Beltre now that Feliz is on the market...

Check out the comparisons via Fan Graphs... http://www.fangraphs.com/comparison.aspx?playerid=1112&playerid2=639&playerid3=&position=3B&page=7&type=full

Then check out the defensive UZR's...
Beltre: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=639&position=3B
Feliz: http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=1112&position=3B#fielding

Although Feliz's defense is obviously declining and Beltre is clearly the younger and superior player, Feliz will come for a much shorter and much cheaper contract. Additionally, Beltre is on his own decline offensively, and as Boras client will likely yield a 12-14 MM contract (not to mention he's a Type B). Feliz will likely be around 4-5 MM, with incentives likely put in. Although there's other third basemen I'd rather have the Twins go after, like Crede or Figgins, Feliz is the better bet in my book.

NEW & IMPROVED '10 ROSTER
starters
rollins
victorino
utley
howard
werth
figins
ibanez
ruiz

bench
jerry hairston jr
dewayne wise
francisco
hoover

rotation
lee
hamels
blanton
happ
daniel cabrera

Pen
jc romero
will ohman
duaner sanchez
madson
lidge
condrey
kendrick