Reds Negotiating With Ramon Hernandez

the reds better resign him . hanigan sucks and ramon is the most clutch bat not named votto in the lineup

"the reds better resign him . hanigan sucks and ramon is the most clutch bat not named votto in the lineup

Posted by: kwhizz2011 | November 05, 2009 at 08:07 PM"

I agree. I think his pretty underated.

he is like 30 and just now in the majors but that dont mean alot but his stats when ramon went down was terriable if they dont resign him maybe rod

uhh hermie did you see his stats? hanigan isnt thhat good

kwhizz2011,

um, you can't just take Hannigan's last 2 months and compare it to Hernandez's full year.

NEITHER is that good.

Hannigan had a .692 OPS and Hernandez a .699 OPS. Their OPS+ were IDENTICAL (82).

Not much of an arguement about who is better.

Hannigan at least had something positive, he has a VERY good OBP for a catcher (.361). Ramon's OBP was NOT .361, it was .336. He's never had an OBP higher than .343 in his career.

Then there's defense.

Hanngian threw out 43% of runners last year and 40% for his career.

Hernandez threw out 35% last year with a career of 30%.

Hernandez is not bad behind the plate, but Hannigan is better.

So other than power, Hannigan is easily the better catcher right now.

Throw in that Hernandez is gonna be 34 next year, and he's not worth a dime over $2M next year. You'd be WAY, WAY better off trying to get Ivan Rodriguez to come there for the same amount if you're Cincy.

All your numbers prove is that Hannigan is in fact BETTER than Hernandez.

When both were laying together in the 1st half Hannigan was putting up .700 and .800 OPS. It was when he was forced to play more his hitting suffered.

I agreed, you do need another catcher that can catch 90 games with him, but it doesn't 'have' to be Hernandez. You can do much better if you're Cincy, that's the point.

If you can get him cheap, like $1.5-2M then maybe you bring him back, but only then.

i meant he didnt have a full year *

What a LOT of people fail to realize about Hanigan is that he suffered a nck injury in hte middle of the season and continued to play (instead of going on the DL like a LOT of his teammates did).

Look at his month to month stats -

April
Batting Average .357, On Base Percentage .438, Slugging Percentage .429, OPS .867.

May
BA - .314, OBP - .410, SLG - .392, OPS - .802.

June
BA - .318, OBP - .400, SLG - .379, OPS - .779

July
BA - .297, OBP - .395, SLG - .324, OPS - .719

August
BA - .143, OBP - .226, SLG - .196, OPS - .422

September
BA - .217, OBP - .379, SLG - .391, OPS - .770

Pre All Star break
BA - .338, OBP - .428, SLG - .408, OPS - .836

Post All Star break
BA - .165, OBP - .272, SLG - .229, OPS .501

You also ahve to remember that he had msot of his At Bats from the eighth spot in the order. This means for most of the year, he was being followed by the Pitcher, Willy Taveras and then either Alex Gonzalex or Jerry Hairston Jr.

IF you look at their stats, WIlly T and A Gon were two of the WORST hitters in ALL of baseball. ALso, the Reds Offense was one of the worst in the NL. SO, Hanigan COULD have looked at the line up and the total team Offense and decided jsut to go up to the plate and hack at anything (which Toothpick Baker likes to see). But Hanigan didn't do that. He continued to be patient and wait for good pitches to hit.

That is why his Walk to Strike Out ratio was 37 to 31.

Now, add on his above average Defense. Finally, there is the fact that the Reds do NOT have very much, if any, money to spend.

So, if I were the Reds, I would keep Hanigan and let some OTHER team OVERPAY for Ramon Hernandez. I would then look for some scrub Catcher as a back up.

The money saved from NOT OVERPAYING for Hernandez should go to signing Gomes, if he isn't too expensive (or another power hitter for the Outfield) or to offset the money they NEED to eat when the DFA Wee Willy Taveras.

the reds better resign him . hanigan sucks and ramon is the most clutch bat not named votto in the lineup

Posted by: kwhizz2011 | November 05, 2009 at 08:07 PM

You don't know what you're talking about. Hanigan had one bad month after having a bad neck injury that he played with because Hernandez was having knee surgery. If Ramon is asking for anything more than 3 mill the Reds had better pass on him.

ramon needs and AL team aware enough that he can C, 1B and DH and add veteran presence to an Angels-type team that needs a clutch, smart ballplayer

Hanigan definitely deserves a shot at starting, he's good defensively and he has a patient approach at the plate, and you don't need much more than that from a backstop.

Then again, there is this:

From July 18th through the end of season, Hanigan posted a .160/.264/.226 line in 121 PA over 41 games.

It's tough to hand the everyday job to an unestablished guy who finished the way that he did.

I like the idea of adding one of the big pop veteran catchers like Molina, Shoppach, Olivo or Barajas to split duties with Hanigan.

Ramon was OK last year, but that doesn't matter anymore. All that matters is what you think he WILL do.

And the facts now are that he is almost 34, he is a catcher, and he's coming off knee surgery.

In my book, I'd be OK with perhaps a $2M or $2.5M offer for ONE YEAR ONLY.

Anything multi-year would be clinically insane, in my humble opinion. Age 34 catchers coming off surgery are often completely done, quite frankly. I mean... it's possible.

Frankly, I'd prefer someone younger and with more offensive potential, if possible.

alright ctownboy
why would we ever trust fangraph's numbers... do you actually believe things they write like Ben Zobrist is worth $38.5 million?

More than ONE year for Ramon would be idiotic in my opinion. Nothing against him... just his age, his position, and injury history.

"It has already been established that the front office of the Reds is populated by idiots. (signing Taveras to 2 years, trading top 2 pitching prospects for Rolen, committing 46.5 million to 4 not especially great players when you have a 75 million payroll, etc)"

I agree with every word of this.

I also agree with you Monroesays.

From what I have read, the Reds are either getting rid fo some employees or asking them to take paycuts.

I have a simple solution if the team thinks the cost structure is too high - FIRE Bavasi and Bonifay!!!

These are two ex-GM's who are giving their input to Jocketty and Ca$htellini. All you have to do is look at their track records and what they did (or didn't do) for their prior teams to see these guys are NOT what the Reds need. So, cut the dead weight, reduce costs and get some younger, different thinking people on board.

kwhizz2011,

I like this line up better -

CF Dickerson/Stubbs
C Hanigan
1B Votto
2B Phillips
LF Gomes
3B Rolen
RF Bruce
SS Janish
P

Before Hanigan was injured mid season, he was putting up a .400 OBP every month. So, having him bat in front of Votto makes more sense than Phillips in that context.

As far as Phillipsgoes, he has speed and power, both of which would be somewhat wasted if he were hitting in front of Votto.

With Phillips on base (especially First) and Votto batting, Phillips is LESS likely to try and steal. This is because if he gets thrown out then it means one less guy on base for Votto to potentially drive in. It also means Votto might get pitched around if no one is on base.

So, since Gomes, Rolen and Bruce are lesser hitters than Votto, it makes sense for Phillips to bat after Votto and before those other guys. That way, he can attempt steals more often while still having the speed to score from First on a Double if he decides to not try and steal.

Phillips is also a DP machine, so I agree that I like him better lower in the lineup.